From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #484 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 12 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 484 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating ["kakki" ] Uriah Heep (...big thanks) [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating [colin ] Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating [colin ] Re: Tire Skids and Teeth Marks NJC [colin ] RE: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Deb Messling ] Re: Winona? NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Winona? NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Winona? NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] slouching towards bethlehem ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: Your funeral, my trial NJC [Mags N Brei ] Re: Winona? NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Your funeral, my trial NJC [colin ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] three times minimum [] Fwd: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content [Mags N Brei ] RE: thanks (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Susan Guzzi ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: "all the guilty people..." [Engwall57@aol.com] Re: reading the list [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni in concert tomorrow? ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? [Jerry Notaro ] desert discs ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: thanks (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!!NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating Franklin wrote: > Please Kasey, while I respect Kakki's apparently > unflappable "belief" (note my preferred choice of words) in the > propaganda that this is one great big open, honest land of liberty, > defending, the poor, downtrodden, ignorant and misled legions here > and everywhere else abroad through every means necessary (force of > course being preferable if at all possible, as it's by far the most > profitable) I must attempt to dissuade you from further encouraging > her wishful thinking. Eh? >I generally prefer the concept of thoughtful thinking preceding the wishful variety. In my limited thoughtful thinking, I perceive most of what you have expounded to be conspiracy theories, (not to judge whether that is good or bad). They are theories about conspiracies. As I said to you before, I can always see some truth and some fiction in all of them. That is what usually makes them so compelling. All propaganda uses the same devices. The bottom line is that no one knows all the truth of everything or how it is all working together. One may know 5% or 99% but cannot know it all. You do appear to be saying you know it all and that you know all the answers. You profess to be a Christian - didn't Christ speak about everyone only knowing in part? I have no problem at all with not knowing all the answers to everything out there. Living like that doesn't make me less intelligent. In fact, I find myself at my least intelligent those times when I think I have it all figured out. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:09:51 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Uriah Heep (...big thanks) Hi Listers Thanks to the kind people who sent me nice messages...some off list. My yin and yang are now back in some kinda balance (for the first time). Humbling. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:29:43 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) I have been avoiding (although enjoying) the discussion on Oil/War up until now but I feel I have to say one thing about it. To the people who say the Iraq war is all about oil, I have to say that I disagree. To those who argue that it's not about oil at all I have to disagree too. I think the focus on oil distracts the attention from the wider picture. Last year, or earlier this year, I posted a quotation from a retired US military office who in his memoirs explained his role. I include the quote again here below. My point is that it is not oil in itself but the capitalist system, of which oil is an important part, which cannot 'allow' regimes contrary to US economic interests to prosper. The US has intervened in many countries where oil played no part in the decision but where capitalism was 'threatened' by hostile, although democratically elected governments. The UK, as Colin points out, has also followed this type of policy and its history of colonial brutality almost makes the US look like an amateur. And let's not forget the Spanish empire and all its works. Here's the quote again. I agree that these acts took place a long time ago, but I believe it is pertinent to point them out as they seem to be the same type of actions that we see today. >>I spent thirty-three years and four months in active service as a member of our country's most agile military force - the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from a second lieutenant to major-general. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the bankers. In short I was a racketeer for capitalism... Thus I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914, I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank to collect revenues in... I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras 'right' for American fruit companies in 1903.<< mike in barcelona NP Coltrane - My Favorite Things (again) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:47:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating Franklin wrote: - - God got that right(what am I implying? He gets EVERYTHING right)! All false religion ends in violence. Franklin wrote: Those who found and accepted the truth. Only those who are justified, sanctified and purified by total surrender and submission to the Holy Spirit through recognition and personal acceptance of the greatest sacrifice in eternity - the sacrifice of God's only begotten son to save a lost, insane asylum of a sin-littered world. Only one person at a time. Only those who chose. Franklin, in response to Kasey, then wrote: Such absolutes are a real impediment to contemplating alternative possibilities, especially rational ones. colin writes: do i need to? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:54:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: njc Rebuttal on personal berating > I have no problem at all with not knowing all the answers to > everything out there. Living like that doesn't make me less intelligent. > In fact, I find myself at my least intelligent those times when I think I > have it all figured out. So true Kakki.We cannot know the answers and cause ourselves grief by constantly asking the answerable. Believing we have the answers leads to untold misery. It is intelligent, as you say, to accept we won't know all the answers. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:06:45 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Tire Skids and Teeth Marks NJC This is romantic and heart warming-and only true for the minority of people. I tooo remeber my childhood wel. I recall being able to play out anywhere. Making my own entertainment, not having tv, reading, real home cooking. I also recall race violence, teachers who were peodophiles, parents who thought their children were punchbags, rwally poor people in my neighborhood, people dying thru lack of medical care/knowledge, people hiding themselves, not ebing able to be who they were, and any number of negative stuff as well. Today is far better than yesterday. Do we really wnat to go back to all that ignorance? Yes some things appear to be worse today. However, we also have much much more info. A man farts in China and it is on BBC News 24. In the past we wouldn't have known. And untold horros took place. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:56:41 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! http://www.nypost.com/seven/11072002/gossip/pagesix.htm PAGE SIX By RICHARD JOHNSON with PAULA FROELICH and CHRIS WILSON - -------------------------------------------------------------------- November 7, 2002 -- Joni Mitchell's sour-note rant SINGING and songwriting legend Joni Mitchell can't stand Madonna. "Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," Mitchell tells W magazine. "She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people." Sadly for fight fans, the feeling is not mutual. "Wow," said Madonna's rep, Liz Rosenberg. "What can I say? Madonna has always been a huge fan of Joni Mitchell's. I don't know what to say. I'm sorry she feels that way. Madonna speaks frequently about her admiration and worship of Joni's talent. Wow. The feeling isn't mutual." Madonna isn't Mitchell's only target in the bombshell interview. The "Parking Lot" singer also doesn't care much for David Letterman. "Letterman treats musicians like the armpit of the [entertainment] industry. He tags you on at the end [of his television show], never talks to you - while he talks to the dimmest actress." A rep for Letterman would say only: "The feeling isn't mutual." As for everyone else, Mitchell - who claims she is leaving the music industry forever because the "business is repugnant to me" - had this to say: * "David [Geffen] is almost like my mother . . . David seems to have an inability to see me fresh. I'm fond of David. Though I don't know why . . . It's a strong combative relationship. He was money motivated, I was art motivated. He took advantage, but he took advantage of everybody - that's the nature of the business." * Regarding contemporary artists: "As long as they look good, they can pitch-correct them now - they can interior-decorate their music. The artists don't have to play anything - they can cheat, buy songs and put their name on them, so they can build the illusion that they are creative." * On the music business: "[It is] the most corrupt one of all. They try not to pay you whenever possible. Part of me wants to spill the beans, but it doesn't seem to be effective . . . They're not looking for talent. They're looking for a look and a willingness to cooperate. And a woman my age, no matter how well-preserved, no longer has the look. And I have never had a willingness to cooperate." * Regarding her 1995 reunion with her daughter Kilauren Gibb, whom she had put for adoption over 30 years ago: "I have a wonderful relationship with my daughter and my grandchildren. [After the reunion], for a year or two, it was difficult. Now we're hummin' . . . We don't have the scar tissue that's frequently built up between mother and daughter." * On Hollywood: "There is nothing duller to me than a room full of stars. There is too much effort, straining, and they're all exhibitionists. I need a climate of affection. You're not going to find a pocket of affection in a room full of stars." At 01:18 AM 11/12/02 -0300, you wrote: >does anybody have the full text or can quote by heart? apparently, you have >to BUY the text from the NY post if you want to read it. the nerve. >wallyK - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:19:49 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: thanks NJC In a message dated 11/11/2002 11:21:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, greenstudio@sympatico.ca writes: > I realized today I've been > doing so for over a year now, a year full of head > spinning changes for me personally, during which, daily, > there was ... this thread running. Thanks for stepping into the light, if only for a brief moment. India.Arie put out this simple but profound lyric this year, which I can also relate to: "The only thing constant in the world is change. That's why I take life as it comes." Bob NP: The Beatles, "Brazil" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:52:32 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: PazFest cds! Wow! (NJC) In a message dated 11/12/2002 2:17:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > Blue Boy was another > wonderful surprise... I just heard this one in the car this AM, and once again I was just in awe of Jack's performance, and laughing at his "I've got 32 new BUDDIES" line...his version is one that surpasses Joni's own as he invests it with so much feeling. It's an intimate song, and he sings it so intimately, if that makes any sense. And his vocal is so much warmer, where Joni's is too stratospheric. Hers is great, his is better. btw...now that I can't bug you about Pazfest, Michael...when is Jack Nielsen's CD going to be available? :~) Bob NP: The Beatles, "River Rhine Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:52:20 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Early Recordings Remastered NJC Thanks for the update and the effort, David...I was about to put out an APB on yer ass! :~) I totally forgot what I traded for but now I'm excited! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Maybe Baby" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:33:11 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ewwt@juno.com wrote: > << I love Joni for her guts! But why name names? She can't rant and > rail without making it personal? >> > > Hi Bree, > Perhaps Joni thinks Madonna epitomizes what's wrong with the > music industry today. > Or perhaps Joni is following Madonna's example, promoting her new > CD with negative controversy. > ;~D > Eric Or, perhaps she was specifically asked about Madonna! Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:39:56 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." In a message dated 11/11/2002 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Relayer211 writes: > I've been thinking about these lyrics.any ideas about what > they mean? Relayer, I don't know how you come up with these questions, but I'm glad that you do! :~) For me, the only way I can make sense out of the lyric you've quoted (from Court & Spark) is to put it in context of the song as a whole. In the song, the singer comes upon a singer in the park - they share a 'moment', make eye contact, whatever - sufficient to encourage the guy to 'spark' her. They begin to make conversation, a snippet of which she includes here and your reference. The guy seems to be saying that he has abandoned religious thoughts/beliefs he once had..."I cleared myself, I sacrificed my blues" and didn't want to be associated with people whom he now views as hypocrites -the guilty people with stains on their daily bread (a reference to the Lord's prayer "Give us this day our daily bread") and their Christian names (referencing the names announced to babies upon their baptism). He then builds on the statement by saying "You could complete me, I'd complete you"...not a reference to mini-me but rather saying that unlike religion, having failed to satisfy him, he can now see himself being made whole in a relationship with her. Just like a smooth-talking guy...and she almost falls for it, then says she "couldn't let go of LA". Of course, the next song starts out "Help me, I think I'm falling in love again...", so go figure! :~) A wonderful intro song on a masterful record...when I hear those opening piano chords I'm locked in for the whole ride! Bob NP: The Beatles, "Sun King" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:53:16 -0500 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Tire Skids and Teeth Marks ..and I was an 80's kid, and can relate to everything on that list. Don't get too nostalgic until its truly gone... I had forgotten all about the "home when the streetlights come on" rule. I still do not own a video game system. My sister's boyfriend works for Rockstar Games (who put out the wildly popular "Grand Theft Auto" series), so I've seen gaming from his perspective lately. I personally think that video games are the first form of completely artless entertainment, but he'd disagree with me. As far as Joni's comments go - has anyone ever thought that Joni might just be kind of a windbag? Every time she gets asked a question she goes off on the same rant. We all know people like that in our daily lives...we just usually tune them out. The Madonna comment was lame and dated. People have been saying that about Madge for years. Get on the boat already! Reuben >>> "Humble tiger" 11/11/02 07:54PM >>> I was a '70's child and I can relate to alot of these memories......I don't think we had an answering machine until the '90's :) Erica <<>> Forgive me if it's outta place here. WtS _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:09:19 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Winona? NJC Will/Winona asked: > Why Winona? Not that I would mind Winona. She can sing and she has a > cute face. Her mom is pretty Hot(especially for a mom)! Because Bob Murphy wrote to you: > This is a very forgiving group. Just say you were doing research for > a movie role. "Research for a movie role" was Winona's "excuse" for shoplifting. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:30:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Winona? NJC Is this writing about Winona or Wynonna, the latter of which has the hot mom and can sing? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: "William Chavez" ; Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Winona? NJC > Will/Winona asked: > > > Why Winona? Not that I would mind Winona. She can sing and she has a > > cute face. Her mom is pretty Hot(especially for a mom)! > > Because Bob Murphy wrote to you: > > > This is a very forgiving group. Just say you were doing research for > > a movie role. > > "Research for a movie role" was Winona's "excuse" for shoplifting. > > Lori > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:27:27 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Winona? NJC > Is this writing about Winona or Wynonna, the latter of which has the hot mom > and can sing? > Winona Ryder was convicted of shoplifting. Wynona Judd has the hot mom and can sing. Maybe they are really the same person though. Has anyone ever seen them together? Victor in Asheville NP: King Crimson Thrak - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:09:54 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: slouching towards bethlehem Once again I could not resist and went to listen to the song of the day on the Nonesuch website. I'm listening to Slouching Towards Bethlehem right now and am BLOWN AWAY! Raf _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:16:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Your funeral, my trial NJC Mike Pritchard wrote: <<>> http://www.ink08.com/material/yourfuneral.htm Ive written Mike offlist to give some of my thoughts on this paper. Mostly, Im writing on list to encourage listers to give this thought provoking paper a read. It well worth the time. Thanks Mike for posting the link. Mags. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:40:57 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Winona? NJC > Winona Ryder was convicted of shoplifting. Wynona Judd has the hot > mom and can sing. Maybe they are really the same person though. Has > anyone ever seen them together? I saw them together once with Michael Jackson. Or was that Janet? : ) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:55:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Your funeral, my trial NJC > It well worth the time. it certainly is. thanks for the link Mike > Thanks Mike for posting the link. > > Mags. > > > > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:07:19 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! . > Or perhaps Joni is following Madonna's example, promoting her new >CD with negative controversy. > ;~D > Eric Could be...I know this goes on? Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? Bree _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:18:58 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: reading the list thanks for not killing me on that last email i wrote about joni smoking and my negative review of the joni samples from "travelog" i felt bad all day after i wrote it cause i do love her music so dearly just a few more thoughts: am i the only one who liked "taming the tiger"? i found it rich and textured with at least half a dozen good songs. i'm amazed its always near the bottom of the album list here in the voting section. granted its not a "for the roses" but it sure beats the pants off of that god awful "dog eat dog" or "chalk mark" i would put it on par at least with "indigo" or "night ride." listen to it again people! and again! yes i realize madonna is dumb as dirt you just have to watch any of her interviews on any talk show... but she is very talented and has a cool voice to boot. once again all you nay sayers, (inc. joni!) please just listen to "ray of light." you'll see. by the same token that larry king is an even bigger idiot who never does his homework and goads his guests into ridiculous situations. even worse is that horrible charlie rose. ick Makes you pine for tom snyder. (kidding! kidding!) (remember his interview with john lennon? i always kringe thinking about it) by the way, david letterman is at least intelligent, but shouldn't be ALLOWED to talk to any rock acts (joni or otherwise) cause he doesn't know anything about music and has such awful taste. ditto for jay leno, obviuosly. (bring back dick cavett or david frost please) and as an aside gripe whats with all the rap crap on saturday night live? is that what current fans of that show really want? (and i wonder why joni was never on?) and while judy and joan may be a bit boring in their old age, one just has to give "in my life" or "any day now" a quick spin to hear how great they were in their heyday a joni quote i'll always remeber someone in a rolling stone interview asked her if she was happy and she said something like "oh sure ..when i'm running in the kitchen to makes some toast.." i just love that always think of joni when i'm spreadin around the marmalade. and does anyone remember the interview with joni in RS by morrissey? (x smiths and fabulous artiste) a classic! i saved it (actually have an expanded version of it on cd) and you know what? i think joni may have slipped when she said she hated madonna probably meant to say that awful britney spears or christine aguilera! xxx to you and miss joni walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:31:31 -0600 From: Subject: three times minimum > From: Chihuahua50@aol.com > I remember the first time I heard For the Roses. I didn't like it. It was a > friend's copy and I didn't even buy my own copy until many years later. Now > it's my second favorite CD by Joni. (Hejira being first.) I was 15 when I bought Court and Spark, listened to it once, and thought I had wasted what was, for me, a huge chunk of money! But after two more listens, I loved it and have loved Joni's music ever since. And that was when I learned that three listens are necessary before I give up on something that's new to my ears. On Thursday, we went to Saskatoon for the weekend (I did report that we've moved home to Saskatchewan, right?). We were driving along and I said to the boys, "It's Joni Mitchell's birthday today." Emil said "I wish I could phone her to wish her a happy birthday." "We don't have her number." "Why not?" "Well, we don't know her personally, that's why." "I do!" Emil said, "I met her at the Mendel Art Gallery, don't you remember?" Kate du Nord <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Letter Out is a journal whatnot sent via email whenever I have time and inclination. Receive it automatically by replying to this email with "Sign Me Up" in the Subject box. To unsubscribe, put "Unsubscribe" in the subject box. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:32:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Fwd: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content as per requested by Chuck...fwding this to la big list. I also want to take this opportunity to say that I have been contemplating the notion that to give a critique does not mean that one is criticising. point well taken. When i said i was somewhat dismayed at the negative feedback about Joni's Travelogue, (as per judgments raised from the sound snippets online) I was coming from the place of wishing that people would wait until they had it in their hands/own home stereo systems before passing judgement. And as someone else pointed out to me, it IS a good thing we can discuss/dissect and offer up our opinions and thoughts on everything Joni. life is for learning. Mags. "Eisenhardt, Chuck" wrote:To: "'NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com'" From: "Eisenhardt, Chuck" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:41:30 -0500 Subject: RE: Sv: [NortheastJonifest] Choni Content Hi all, I ran across this Joni reference in 'Stardust Melodies', by Will Friedwald, which is a great read on the life and times of 12 monster American Songbook tunes: Star Dust, My Funny Valentine, etc. and this bit about Joni's BSN version of Stormy Weather... "...folk-rock singer songwriter Joni Mitchell delivered a rendition that surprised me with it's depth and effectiveness, but which probably was no surprise for her longtime fans. Mitchell has a burnished voice like the best of the great jazz ladies, and a more than persuasive way with a lyric. She obviously grew up with the 1959 Sinatra reading, for her background arrangement seems deeply in debt to Gordon Jenkins." If anyone is so inclined please pass this citation to the jmdl list, as I am not able to send from this email account! Thanks! ChuckE To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:36:53 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" >Anyone else fascinated with how music evolves? Yes. I read a fairly interesting book written by the drummer of The Grateful Dead on the history of drums/percussion. (mickey? (can't think of the last name) Interesting little tidbits like: the pan drums or steel drums were a product of WW11. ...All those oil drums left on islands were put to good use... I wonder about Joni too...where in the heck did she get all those open tunings..chord progressions? Was she influenced heavily (slightly) by somebody..was she her own evolution? Bree >Okay, Jim, tag you're it! Jenny > "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote:Goodspeed, let's leave >it at what? You didn't SAY anything! What do YOU >think? Why did you raise all of these >questions for ME to answer? :) C'mon. You've got a fine head >on your shoulders! Give it up, girl! You're old enough to sit with the >grownups. Speak! Speak! > >Lama > > > >Jenny said, > >> So - this all has me thinking - when is an artist ground >breaking - when an artist truly comes up with something new >or combines influences in a way that has never been done >before? Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some >ground? And what was her contribution - lyrical...musical. > >For pop/rock music history buffs - or heck for people who >were actually cognizant at the time - how do you see Joni >in the context of popular music? How about in music in >general? Did she truly become an original right of the >bat with STAS - or was that more a logical, albeit >creative outflow of what was happening around and before her? > >I have a zillion other thoughts/questions, but let's leave it at >that....>>>> >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:29:19 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: thanks (njc) greenstudio: > I'm usually a lurker. I'm an painter/writer up in Canada. I don't live among Joniphiles< Victor in Asheville: >Do you live in a box of paints? :-}< me: lol, are you frightened by the devil? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? > You know there is something to that ... You must also realize now Bree, if Joni does read this list, you are definitely on HER S*** list! We should be reading about you in her next interview. Ready for my close-up! ;-) Peace, Susan U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:21:47 -0800 From: "Ronald M. St. Marie" Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." Re Court and Spark: I view the song as a conflict of adolescent/sixties idealism and post adolescent/seventies materialism. We are told of an encounter with a free spirit offering a different, spiritual life to the singer. Not someone abandoning religion, but someone who just experienced an awakening/cartharsis -- "When something strange happened Glory train passed through him." He gives up everything to search for a woman to share his life with. He points out that we all know that we have sacrificed our ideals for material things -- the stain on our daily bread. He says that you need to clear yourself of these worries about materiality, give up your blues that created by wanting and not getting what you want. You know, come away with me, lets get away from all this b.s. and live free. The singer is tempted to do the same thing -- it makes a lot of sense to her. She knows that she worries sometime. But can't give up her things: I see it as her comfortable life. She is one of the fallen angels, those who come to LA with innocence and high-minded ideals, only to be seduced by L.A. -- Babylon by the Sea. Free Man in Paris echoes this theme of being handcuffed by success. Fits in a nice tight package for me. Just my opinion of course. Ron in Lost Angeles - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:39 AM Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." > In a message dated 11/11/2002 4:22:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, Relayer211 writes: > > > I've been thinking about these lyrics.any ideas about what > > they mean? > > Relayer, I don't know how you come up with these questions, but I'm glad that you do! :~) > > For me, the only way I can make sense out of the lyric you've quoted (from Court & Spark) is to put it in context of the song as a whole. > > In the song, the singer comes upon a singer in the park - they share a 'moment', make eye contact, whatever - sufficient to encourage the guy to 'spark' her. They begin to make conversation, a snippet of which she includes here and your reference. > > The guy seems to be saying that he has abandoned religious thoughts/beliefs he once had..."I cleared myself, I sacrificed my blues" and didn't want to be associated with people whom he now views as hypocrites -the guilty people with stains on their daily bread (a reference to the Lord's prayer "Give us this day our daily bread") and their Christian names (referencing the names announced to babies upon their baptism). > > He then builds on the statement by saying "You could complete me, I'd complete you"...not a reference to mini-me but rather saying that unlike religion, having failed to satisfy him, he can now see himself being made whole in a relationship with her. Just like a smooth-talking guy...and she almost falls for it, then says she "couldn't let go of LA". Of course, the next song starts out "Help me, I think I'm falling in love again...", so go figure! :~) > > A wonderful intro song on a masterful record...when I hear those opening piano chords I'm locked in for the whole ride! > > Bob > > NP: The Beatles, "Sun King" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:24:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! Bree writes: << Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time passes? >> JONI: I AM BIG! It's the music business that got small. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:35:38 -0500 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: "all the guilty people..." I like your interpretation of C&S. It is very insightful. Joni's body of work is like a tapestry; many themes are repeated and developed over time. As some discussed in the "foreshadowing" thread, Joni does not just plop a song out there that has no connection to the rest. everything is interconnected. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:36:30 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: reading the list In a message dated 11/12/2002 12:18:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, walterphil@excite.com writes: > am i the only one who liked "taming the tiger"? > i found it rich and textured > with at least half a dozen good songs. There are a bunch of us that like it, Walt. "Harlem in Havana" is my favorite of her 90's songs. Except for "No Apologies" & "Lead Balloon" which sound forced and unfocused, the songs are up to her standard. I love the way she touches on her current 'mature' relationships in songs like "Facelift".(And wish she would explore some of these themes more with some new songs). I DO wish she had played some of it on acoustic, or piano, or at least experimented more with the settings on the VG8. Because of her strumming/picking style, too many of the songs sound too similar, of course this takes nothing away from them lyrically or compositionally. > yes i realize madonna is dumb as dirt She's "dumb" like a fox! Joni should have a tenth of her marketing savvy. I own no Madonna records, but you HAVE to admire the fact that she's defiantly lasted as long as she has in an industry that FORCES it's hitmakers to be disposable. She's a master of controlling the media. > (and i wonder why joni was never on?) I wonder that myself...it just must have never worked out. Joni has made some spontaneous NY appearances over the years, and all you need for SNL is 2 songs! Who knows, maybe an SNL appearance is yet to come! Bob NP: The Beatles, "It's All Too Much" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:56:52 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni in concert tomorrow? Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S F*****G TOMORROW! Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition being answered? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:57:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? Get on it, Kakki! Laurent Olszer wrote: > Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The > concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S > F*****G TOMORROW! > Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. > > By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition > being answered? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:00:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? This 11/13 appearance is for the Walden benefit, Kakki already has her ticket. I hope Joni will be there, you never can be sure, can't wait for Kakki's report! Bob NP: Belly, "Stay" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:10:43 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni in concert tomorrow? That would be Stormy Weather 2002. An El Lay area contingent is already slated to attend. From what I know it will be Bob and myself, Kakki, Rick and Brad, Clark, and Ken. We're meeting for dinner pre-concert. Bob and I sprung for the mucho expensivo tickets which include a "VIP Post-Concert Party" so maybe we'll get to say hi to Siquomb herself.... Phyliss Laurent Olszer wrote: > Just checked out artistdirect.com, (which has great links), for Joni. The > concert section lists Joni as playing L.A.'s Wiltern on 11/13/02, and THAT'S > F*****G TOMORROW! > Too late to hop on a plane but I'm sure some of you fellows can go. > > By the way, has the question about how to get Travelogue's limited edition > being answered? > > Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:47:56 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: desert discs Stereophile magazine has a feature on desert island recordings. Among those listed of interest to this list are: Court and Spark Miles Davis' Porgy and Bess Michael Franks' Sleeping Gypsy Jesse Colin Young - Light Shine Jackson Brown (Saturate Before Using) Dan Fogelberg - Home Free A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night Gordon Lightfoot - If you Could Read My Mind JT - Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon Boz Scaggs - Silk Degrees Roxy Music - Avalon Wham - Make It Big Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:56:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: thanks (NJC) greenstudio wrote: > I'd like to introduce myself, thank everyone and slip > back into lurkdom. Take care. > > http://www3.sympatico.ca/greenstudio/index.html And I reply ... Wow. REALLY wonderful stuff on your site! Thanks for sharing with us!! In addition to the beautiful art, I like this bit of text: "The web isn't the best place to see painting. There's texture lost and there's no free bar and you have to wait for the pictures to come down to you." Oh yes. It all comes down to you ... Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:47:34 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!!NJC > > Or she IS becoming more like that Norma Desmond character as time >passes? >You know there is something to that ... You must also realize now Bree, if >Joni does read this >list, you are definitely on HER S*** list! We should be reading about you >in her next interview. I would blame it on BOB MURPHY...he started it..with that piece he wrote. " stole that from willie the shake"... >Ready for my close-up! ;-) I've seen it..love those little pc cams!!! ;-) (will you always charge? (that much!!?? ) Bree >Peace, >Susan >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:36:16 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: NJC RE: Kasey's misunderstandings/spellings > Yet a conspiracy is simply that - a conspiracy "to join in a secret >agreement to accomplish an unlawful or wrongful act 2) a mischievous >plot, generally conceived for political, personal or financial gain >in a such a manner as to skillfully elude discovery. > Kasey> Who are THEY, Franklin? Not genralizations, names. Franklin> That's the same question I keep trying to find out Kasey!! Read the above dictionary definition of "conspiracy". That's part of the intrigue. It would be wrong, excluding the generals (that's with an "e", and also a JOKE - get it? general-izations - I cracked a "funny"). Start with the Generals. They do the "heavy lackey lifting"; they are willing to arrange to kill - not just enemy armies, but individuals who don't "cooperate". Particularly pay attention to the "retired" ones. Also, any retired CIA spooks. They are also willing to do whatever unsightly tasks necessary. After all, that's what they've done all their careers. They're all the lackeys who go to their "active" buddies and tell them of the "deals", the perks that are waiting when "they" retire. Look at the BOD's (Board of Director) lists on every major military industrial contractor. (Lockheed, Honeywell, Argent; you know, the ones who make bombs, land mines, tanks, guided missles, predator planes, etc. Find out who the MAJOR stock-block holders are (in most cases it will be holding companies - no names up front. This is a "conspiracy", remember? Cross-check these major stockholders and you will be - drum roll - SHOCKED to find that they have major holdings in every one of the arms companies. Starting to get the idea? Check out the membership list on the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) if you can get ahold of one. Better yet, find out the "founding" father's list of the CFR, good luck there. > They are merely an opinion on world events. Franklin> Which they are you talking about, THEY or they? > That's your opinion. > > Oh, I thought it was my world view point. >Franklin No it's "your world" view point. You know, the little world >you've created for yourself... > Thank you. I've always subscribed to the principle that >ALL meaningful manifestos must be wordy and empty! > > Congratulations, you have succeded > Hot damn!! It's about time I succeeded at SOMETHING! (by the way >succeeded has two e's) > Perhaps the remotepossibility of recognizing that we are >not in ANY danger, imminent orotherwise from Saddam Insane and his >223 1950's vintage (classics,I'm sure - probably collectable if >auctioned on e-bay) Soviet tanks, >his infamous shotgun (that really scares the hell outa ya, doesn't >it?) And his Fedora - complete with GPS satellite system to target >your home - is a HUGE leap for some. The idea that G.DUB has the >I.Q. of a sparrow and the morals of a mouse is probably a huge leap >too. Let's all rally around the flagpole and hurry up and rid the >world of this Mad Mastermind and his pita-pounding patsies before he >annihilates us all. All we need to do is increase the war budget to >say, oh - 3-500 billion dollars (never mind whose pockets that's >inevitably going into), toss roughly 200,000 young men and women over >there and while we're at it, we might as well confiscate his biggest >threat: those deadly oil fields that have the capability of toppling >entire economies with a single turn of the spigot. Now mind you, lest >there be any misunderstanding, the oil well appropriations are >strictly incidental to the "real" issues at stake. > > and again we jump right off the track in to a rambling mass of s**t. Franklin> I've never heard them described that way, but those old Soviet beaters are probably just that, "a rambling mess of s**t". Good analogy. They probably do jump off their tracks too, another good point. Wonder how they find replacement parts for that??? >In fact, THEY'RE already hard at work trying to figure out how to >dole out the proceeds from the petrol collectively into every >red-blooded American's pockets. Just think! We're all gonna be >RICH!! Hell, the entire human race can see that this is the only >sane thing to do to protect all of "humanity". And they realize that >the American public should at least receive communal rights to those >oily wells - out of sheer gratitude for OUR courage and resolve, >standing up to that extraordinary, world-threatening POWERHOUSE - >Iraq. What a brilliant idea on G.Dub's part. Sheer genius. Must >have thought about it while reading People Magazine in the John.(On >second thought, there's probably a "red phone" in there. > >This in fact? Not an opinion? I believe this is exactly my point. Franklin> If you cannot deduce the SARCASM in that last paragraph, I'm at a loss for words! - not!! Never! Do you actually think that THEY would dole out the proceeds from any oil well confiscation to the American public like some sort of Bush tax break for the rich? Come to think of it, it will be kind of like a tax break for the rich - - or should I say WINDFALL. I guarantee you two things: 1) any booty from that heist ain't going into either of OUR pockets, even though we're paying for it And 2) That entire paragraph was an attempt at political humor. I'm beginning to sense that you don't have much of a sense of humor. > I would have to believe that all persons in government >are corrupt.That no one elected to public office ran because they >wanted to make a difference. > > Well if you "would have to believe that all >persons in government are corrupt" then I can't argue with you. Such >absolutes are a real impediment to contemplating alternative >possibilities, especially rational ones. (Just try reasoning with >Osama, or G.Dub for that matter - good luck.) > > I think they might be easier to 'reason' with. Franklin> Than who? If you're speaking about yourself, you might have more personal insight than I've recently given you credit for. Awareness is the first step towards change... that's good! You go girl!!! > Now we're getting somewhere. I am aware of that, although >I must confess - I'm somewhat surprised that you are!! > > Oh, I have my moments. Why just the other day I tied my >shoes all by myself. Franklin> Good for you! NOW, try practicing it with them on. > To a degree. They have put an interesting twist on it: "Do >you want Candidate A, or Candidate A. Take your pick". (by the way, >I believe you meant "further". > > So we just stay home and not vote? Maybe that's what THEY want you >to think. If no one votes THEY get control. ( by the way, you for got the ')' >after your 'by the way) Franklin> It works for me. BTW: THEY already have control - either way, candidiate A, or candidate A. As for the punctuation miscue - my computer's been acting up lately. I'll have to check that. Didn't show it on my screen. Hmmmm, could be the ISP or something. I'll drop them a line and report it immediately. > All I can say to that is that stretching is very good for >the body (as well as the brain) and, in any event, is highly >recommended before and after any vigorous exercise (mental or >otherwise). > > Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind. Franklin> That's a good first step. Implementation is the second. > Now you say that only those that know the 'truth' can >rise above this. > > Quotes "" around truth yours not mine, > > Franklin these ' ' aren't quotation marks, these " " are Franklin> Now YOUR computer is acting up TOO!! THEY must be on to US. Be very careful what you say from this point on - if you catch ;) my drift. > > Another fascinating thing is how often they cringe, cry >foul, seethe and scream when confronted with it, through spiritual, >social or personal revelation. The "truth" really does hurt some >times - don't it though. Ah, humanity... such a silly, selfish bunch. > > I think your post demonstates this nicely. Franklin> Hey! We agree on something else! I do think it does, in the way that the responses I'm getting are generally so demonstrative of the very point itself! >But my dear, back to qualifying (yours); I have conducted most of my >conversation regarding a different kind of "truth". Let's call it >facts, just to avoid confusion. For instance, here's a fact: Kennedy >was assassinated ONE day after he signed a bill withdrawing all U.S. >forces out of Vietnam. Lyndon (hi, I'm a corrupt, politically >whoring, good ol' boy from Texas. Where did you say you put those >sacks of hundred dollar bills partner? - behavior that even his >hand-picked biographer freely acknowledges) Johnson's FIRST act as >the new REGIME leader was to rescind and reverse that bill with >Generals standing beside him gleefully rubbing their hands together - >HIS VERY FIRST ACT. OK, so maybe it WAS coincidence. A coincidence >that culminated in a ten year quagmire costing our heroic (we were >there to HELP those poor,ignorant Vietnamese from deciding what type >of government they wanted to live under - boy would that have been a >world-threatening disaster. We sure showed our courage and care) >efforts to the tune of 55,000 dead American sons and over a trillion >dollars in "military hardware" support. Much of that ended up in the >"enemies" hands when we hi-tailed it outa there. Hmmmm....wonder >where that trillion went anyway, you know - which bank accounts. I >guess the price of napalm is just WAY beyond my scope of >comprehension. Who makes that wonder weed burner anyway? Just think >what that patent's worth!!!! > > And off the deep end again. This is what amuses me. Franklin> We once again agree!! That information certainly is DEEP. Can't get much deeper conversation wise. You're more on the ball than I have given you credit for. And you even recognized the "end" part. THEY have gone off the DEEP END, and that is the whole problem. As to "amuses", I'm more concerned myself, but hey, in this culture amusement is very important and counts big time, so I can't exactly fault you for your attitude. > I could go on and on with my "theories", but then again, I really >couldn't. Because everything I've just discussed is facts (oh, those >ratty, trouble-makin' little facts).s > >Fact, Okla. Fed building was bombed. >Fact, Kennedy was shot. >Fact, watergate happened. >All else is theroy, inuendo, and conjector on whatever pieces >of information that are out there. > > > I am a firm believer in God. > Oh, really? Which Ones? > However Gsod is what I call the creator, some call him/her >other names, like Mohammad, Krishna, or Buddha. I too believe >Christ to be a messiah. Messiah meaning teacher. > > I had no idea there were so many creators!!! No wonder the >world is such a mess. Maybe they should get together (they must all >still be alive, as they are "God(s) what I call the creator" as you >put it, and by definition the term God implies eternal) and come up >with one big blueprint that is consistent. > > Franklin, reread your bible my son. Genises says, >"And the sons of GODS mated with the daughters of man" Franklin> I believe you're referring to Genesis (or are you attempting to spell genius's). Whoever fed you that gross misinterpretation of the text found in Genesis 6:2 was either joking or disturbed. The children of Seth (the slain Able's successor in following and obeying God) began having contact with the daughters of man (Cain, who having rejected God, was banished to another area where he started his own clan of unbelievers, having taken a willing sister with him). So long as there had been separation, the "sons of God", Seth's progeny, had been able to maintain their morality and worship God in accordance with His dictates. But in time, they began to mingle, little by little, with the inhabitants of Cain's valley dwellers. This association produced horrible results, echoing through the corridors of time up until this very day. The children of Seth, attracted by the beauty of Cain's descendants, displeased the Lord by intermarrying with them. Many of the worshipers of God were beguiled into sin by the allurements that were now constantly before them and the lost their peculiar, holy character. Mingling with the depraved, them became like them in spirit and in deed. They began to practice polygamy and fixed their minds upon worldly prosperity and enjoyments and began to neglect the commandments of the Lord. If you would merely read it for yourself, the entire chapters of 5,6,and 7, you would quickly deduce that little green men did not come down in space ships and impregnate humanity. You would also realize that whatever this "union" was, it did not improve the human race, but has inevitably degraded it. So let's not blame God for that one too - especially through false application of scripture. > As you are interested in philosophy you know that Socrates >also willingly died for what he believed, I'm sure you've heard of the >hemlock society. > > Do I discern some sort of ominous suggestion here? lol > > Noooooo. Point being both Christ, and Socrates willingly died for >what they believed. Sorry if that was over your head. Franklin> Whose head? Socrates, brilliant rascal that he was, lost on a gamble before a corrupt senate that was trying to control him and his brilliant diatribes concerning their grave misdeeds and chicanery, as "representatives" of the people. (Hmmmm, sound familiar?) He knew he was popular and that they feared dealing with or disposing of him. So he simply stated, "either give me a comfortable hotel suite and food and board for the rest of my life (to paraphrase) or kill me. It could have gone either way, and he knew it. They called his bluff, and the rest is, shall we say, history. On the other hand: Christ knew well in advance the path HE was travelling, the sacrifice He must make to redeem humanity (yes he redeemed all humanity - then, being the ultimate free-will advocate that God is, allowed every individual the choice to accept the sacrifice or not). Kind of like Abe Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation - some slaves actually stayed slaves. They were to comfortable or afraid to actually accept the responsibility of freedom. Being "cared for" apparently had its conveniences for them. > So though I find your writings interesting, I find it is only an >opinion, not based in fact but interpretation. > > Poisoning the well again Kasey, naughty, naughty. My main >writings involve horrific events that are factual and attempting to >ascertain the facts regarding the. My personal beliefs are what you >would be referring to as "interpretation". Two different donkeys >dear. (BTW - you finally admit that you find "wordy and empty >manifestoes" interesting, at least mine!) AHA, gotcha! No seriously, >I'm honored. > >, you are giving factual information to >someone who is arguing opinion, and theory. It won't work, but great >effort. > > Please Kasey, while I respect Kakki's apparently >unflappable "belief" (note my preferred choice of words) in the >propaganda that this is one great big open, honest land of liberty, >defending, the poor, downtrodden, ignorant and misled legions here >and everywhere else abroad through every means necessary (force of >course being preferable if at all possible, as it's by far the most >profitable) I must attempt to dissuade you from further encouraging >her wishful thinking. I generally prefer the concept of thoughtful >thinking preceding the wishful variety. But then again - that's just >another one of my "opinions" > >Kakki.........see what I mean?:) > >I don't know you, but can honestly say I accept, enjoy (and would no >doubt like, should we ever meet) you both. > >I don't know about that Franklin.....after all I'm a flag >waving, GodS loving, half wit, homosexual. Can't see how >one as inteligent, and inclusive as you are could much care about >little ol me. Franklin> Kasey, Kasey. Don't be so hard on yourself. I accept people where they are in life. How else could one? Then again, it seems to me as if you are giving a "hidden" message here (subconsciously or otherwise), hinting at YOUR own seemingly rigid inclusiveness. I'm sorry if I don't FIT in, but none the less, I do care about little ol' you, whether you accept it, appreciate it, or not. That's just my nature. Wasn't always, but God has been working on me (man, what an ordeal) for quite some time - and continues to do so. I only hope the very best for you in all things, and I accept whatever decisions you make -particularly those that bring you peace,joy, hope, true satisfaction and love. - Franklin a ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #484 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)