From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #479 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, November 11 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 479 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: njm pc ["kakki" ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) [colin ] njc Middle East (world) misconceptions [Franklin Shea ] njc re: Outlook Express [Franklin Shea ] Re: Joni, "an original" ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni, "an original" [Jenny Goodspeed ] so sad ["walterphil" ] Oil/Politics....(ranting) NJC? [David Marine ] Re: so sadnjc [colin ] Re: Joni, "an original" ["Kate Bennett" ] war what is it good for absolutely nothing NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni, "an original (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: njm political [Franklin Shea ] Fwd: Re: war what is it good for absolutely nothing NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Joni, "an original (njc) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Travelogue question (again) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #477 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: Joni, "an original" ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: so sadnjc [nyroman ] What's In A Name? (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Evian's trip down memory lane NJC now a case of missing Brei [Mags N ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: What's In A Name? (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: njc re: Outlook Express [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Tale of Two Bobs (don't make a right?) njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:23:43 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: njm pc Hi Franklin, I must say I like the way you weave humor into your points. ;-) Truly, part of me would love to just go with the idea that it is all about a huge conglomerate Illuminati that controls everything. That way none of us have to think or fret much further about it all and we can all just go on and enjoy Joni's music and eke out what little happiness we can find in our short days on this earth. I'm not being totally facetious! This would simplify it all for us. And as I told you yesterday, I'm not above considering conspiracy theories. > Ya, they're constrained alright. There would be too many criminal > prosecutions and jail sentences handed out for international crimes > that have been committed, in direct violation of U.S. laws and > statutes. Nah, maybe they can't talk about because they don't want the public to panic. Keep them going to the malls and keeping up the economy and all ;-) > (By the way, do you/did you, work for the government kakki? Just curious as per your last > sentence.) Use to work for a military defense contractor. Now work in law. Got to go - see you later ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:04:19 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) another reason it is easy to send the young to war is that they have not yet become aware of their own mortality. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:14:15 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: njc Middle East (world) misconceptions Anne said: > And now most of the world hates us. It was an opportunity missed. Many in the world do not hate us and the ones who do have always hated us anyway to the point where I don't think anything we could do could make them love us. It is in their own self-interest to hate us. Kakki Franklin counters: Ladies, ladies. You are both dear hearts so please try not to take this personally - but I am so sick of hearing that old cliche "most of the world hates us." Just what the hell is that massively over-generalized statement supposed to mean? Why is it echoed throughout our land? They (the other struggling, working, loving, learning plebeians throughout the world don't hate US (you and me)!!!! They don't even know US! They hate THEM... the Regime of the Shadow Government Fascist Billionaire's Club and their army of witless, puppeteer lackeys. The Regime has done nothing but manipulate, destroy, dictate, dominate, bully, and bludgeon it's way around the world for so long that of course they are FEARED and despised. But they are not US. They are the very ONES fomenting the old saw "they hate, us, our freedoms, our prosperity, our work ethics, blah blah blah." They want US to think that we are personally involved in this torch and burn, confiscate and loot, globalization project of theirs. If we, heavens to Betsy, could figure out,simply grasp, this simple (yet brilliant) strategy of theirs, the curtains would rise and we would see the veritable Wizards of Cause unmasked. They need US to think that the world hates US. It keeps US scared, dependent on our Regime's "protective" measures and placated concerning their unfathomable plans. "They hate US, all of us and so we must PROACTIVELY "protect" "ourselves". Yeah, right. The world hates our deceptive, despotic, duplicitous Rulers and their secretive, self-serving, scandalous, malicious greed-driven behavior throughout the decades. To say that the world hates US is the equivalent of having a fumbling fool who bummed a ride in your car (that you thoughtfully gave a lift to), flip the bird to someone at the bar and then you come out and your windows are broken, doors dented in and he looks at you and smuggly, drunkenly blathers, "they must be mad at US". It's the exact same situation. Don't let the propoganda that "most of the world hates US penetrate into your subconsciousness. And if it already has - reject it - eject it out RIGHT NOW. It is the most POWERFUL PROPAGANDA the Regime can use, and they bleed it to death. I guarantee you - the little old Iraqi lady making homemade hummas and pity bread in her tiny kitchen, without electricity, or running water isn't off daydreaming how much she hates you two dear ladies, or any of US. She may occasionally consider how ruthless, brutal, backstabbing, belligerent and dangerous our REGIME is, may cringe in fear at what they could impulsively do at any given moment, may despise their despicable policies, but she simply does not hate US. Why is this important? Because the Cheney/Bush (always listed in degree of lackey importance) regime NEEDS US to believe this pure, unequivocal putrid propaganda in order to proceed to manufacture high priced military weapons (massive profit) deploy hundreds of thousands of troops (massive profit to arm, train, transport) and destroy Iraqi (read: take over and divvy up the entire energy resources of the conquered). See: http://www.free-market.net/rd/226305840.html I've got news for you, they (the shopkeepers, shoe makers, nurses, babysitters, street sweepers, dentists, accountants, cooks, waiters, clerks of the middle east, or anywhere else DON'T hate US. They DO hate THEM. And THEM wants us to think that we are with THEM. Are you? Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:35:43 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Evian's trip down memory lane NJC Hi Mags, > where is Julie Z? Heard from her a year ago but nothing since. We should try to find her. > has Marianna graduated from college? Not quite yet. >Clark where are you? Clark is out there being multi-creative and says he may be back to the list soon. Seeing him next Weds. Why doesn't Brian post anymore?! ;-) Kakki P.S. Wonderful to see you Rob/Evian! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:29:43 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: njc re: Outlook Express O said: Here's a message about T that was sent to me to forward...Apparently Owen can read mail but can't send from the Outlook Express he's using. Anyway, here's his message: Franklin comments: I had Outlook Express for a year. It was the most wretched piece of c..p. It shut down my mailboxs, couldn't retrieve important stored folders -lost forever - (lesson: always back-up off of e-mail program). Anyway, I finally couldn't send anything from any address to anybody, nor could I get anything. I was almost to the point of tears. My e-mail was crippled and/or down for months. RoadRunner blamed Outlook Express and visa versa. Outlook Express (microsoft) wouldn't help, unless, of course, I wanted to give them my credit card number (I don't even have one) and then they'd allow me to "talk this through" with them for - get this - - $70.00 an hour. A sympathetic friend finally convinced me to dump the entire Outlook garbage can and install the "free" version of Eudora. I for one, don't like too much CHANGE. I was hesitant - but now I'm free. This is working perfectly with NO glitches, ditches or hitches yet. (Crossing fingers). I'm so happy to have Outlook Express out of my life that words can't even describe it. Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:29:29 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" >I heard the timeless Hejira, it was like oh wow -not that she'd be proud - >but I think Hejira spawned the genre of new age music! Her and Jaco I >should say. >Thanks for your thoughts - and I am anxious to other's opinions. Jenny If someone put a gun to my head or a twinkie in front of me and said you must state your favorite Joni album of all time... I would say..HEJIRA. NEW AGE? I dislike NA a great deal...does nothing for me..rather phony and bland/trite. Hejira was ground-breaking..exploding with creativity yet subtle. I could go on...pristine beauty...touches me to the very core!! I think when we are all dead and gone...Hejira will be understood by more than just a handful. And it will go down in history as one of the greatest masterpieces in all recorded history. Bree _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" Bree Mcdonough wrote: If someone put a gun to my head or a twinkie in front of me and said you must state your favorite Joni album of all time... I would say..HEJIRA. LOL. Me too! I probably would even call it my favorite album of all time period. Just to clarify...I was not calling Hejira new age - I believe that it was a big influence on the early Windham Hill catalog. Which as far as I know led (digressed) to the genre we now call new age. Jenny _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: so sad listened to the "travelog" links today and i find them so sad why would joni release so many of her old songs when to me every comparison to the way her voice used to sound just makes me wince. and just as i thought--- i hate the lame orchestrations i wish she'd just give up cigarettes laura nyro did and her voice improved. judy collins and joan baez' voices are still beautiful and neither smokes. i just wonder if jonis would improve. i'll bet it would. i guess she just doesn't care that much i read in an interview once when she had that throat thing she said "they tried to blame it on my cigarettes" "my" cigarettes indeed. in the same interview she went on to say how she preferred billie holiday's later singing voice. rubbish. i know it's a matter of opinion, but give me the 30's billie over the lady in satin period any day. and those recent quotes about madonna-- so pathetic i love madonna yet i realize she isn't half the "artist" joni is and anyone who would give a listen to "ray of light" could see how much madonna is influenced by and respects joni. it's just so obvious to me that "ray" is kind of madonna's "hejira" i'm sure madonna was very hurt when she read joni's comments. i also wonder if joni ever listened to "ray of light" or "music" i'll bet money she never has. i'll still always love joni and i will listen when she drags out that gutair again and sings a new song. in the meantime i will listen to "seagull" and "clouds" and "roses" and "nightride home" for the zillionth time xxx walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:30:17 -0800 From: David Marine Subject: Oil/Politics....(ranting) NJC? Hi List -- As Eminem says to Moby, "Let go, it's over!" The Empire that is the USA is what it is. It will run itself into the ground eventually, or morph into something different. All empires do. In the meantime, it will kill a lot of people in an effort to sustain itself. I am not saying that this is bad or good, just that so far as I can see, it is true. The tribal warlords who give the terrorists their power base are the last vestige of a global resistance to our Empire , one that has co-opted most of the world, led by the massive corporations which homogenize everything, including the music business. Insofar as we, as US citizens, support this hegemony, we are part of the problem (if you see it as a problem). However, at this point there are few options. Our entire existence is dependent upon the industrial machine and LIMITED oil reserves (they are limited, you know). Ain't no getting back to the Garden. If there were a genuinely maverick and visionary leader in the US, one who could survey the global landscape and envision, in 100 years, a peaceful, clean, unified planet...and then develop a plan to get there, and then survive those who would seek to quell her voice...well, we could support her. But our savior has yet to materialize. In the meantime, we are protecting our own. Period. And that's fine, but let's not claim that we are doing otherwise. We will kill whatever we need to in order to keep what we have for another 40 years or so. The people who control Bush are just trying to insure that it's 40 years instead of 30. As I see it, this terrorism is the last gasp of pre-industrialized mankind. The global oligarchy calling the shots will continue to do so, and in the end, what will be left? Even mankind itself is being threatened by Science, as we manipulate the very genetic code which creates us. I applaud the president of Costa Rica for recognizing the treasure trove that is a genuinely pristine, bio-diverse enclave, but I doubt that Costa Rica will have the military muscle to stop the drilling machine when it comes. Now maybe I am just a pessimist, or full of shit, or unable to fully understand the political intricacies of global politics (in fact, I am sure that the latter is true). I have a lot of respect for the many people on the list who have been posting with love in their hearts, with concern for mankind. The serious and intelligent nature of their posts blows me away. I'm sorry that I haven't the kind of mind that can dissect all of the posts and take them on point by point. And I recognize that this mini-rant offers not a single solution. All I am saying is that as we approach a new war, at the very least we should think about our long-term goals, and be honest about our motivations. Perhaps, if I may dig myself a bit deeper into this hole, we might begin with meditation? The spiritual call to arms of the 60s, is it relevant anymore? Best, David p.s. Please stop slamming Joni after listening to those shitty mp3 files on your computer speakers! If i wait one more minute I will erase this so I am pressing the "send now" button.......... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:32:46 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Evian's trip down memory lane NJC >has Marianna graduated from college? Yes..and has been teaching for about sixteen years now. Oh.. the other Marianne. What happened to Fuchya? ing on the list is none other than honeyboi himself, brian gross. ;~) You must be keeping him mighty..mighty busy? ;-0 >Mags >ne: chocolate chip waffles yummmmmmmmmmmm My...wow...this sounds heavenly!! Bree > > > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/9/2002 11:59:31 PM Eastern >Standard Time, >evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: > > > 10.) Who remembers... lol, now I can't think of her name -- she was a > > big Ferron fan... jog my memory. > >That Susan LA was a weird chick...I remember the website she linked you to >at >the bottom of her posts - some kind of "leather & lace" lesbian hooker >escort >service or something... > > > 9.) Who remembers Bob BEFORE he has "Joni" in his email address? Did > > the Joni email start when he sold kayaks? > >I found it incredibly easier to create a new name on AOL for my Joni mail >rather than trying to sift through my main account for it. I created that >mail long before I went to work at Perception (which only lasted a year >anyway) > > > 8.) Where oh where has our Jason Maloney gone....? > >Or Jason Long for that matter...any Jasons out there these days? What is >the >most popular JMDL name? I would bet there are more Steves than anything. > > > 7.) Who remembers our frantic search for the AT&T Don Henley benefit cd > > thing with Joni? > >Sure...and now you can get one off of E-bay any day of the week. Typically >for about $10 or so. > > > 6.) Who remembers my incessant ramblings about the genius of Stevie > > Nicks and Courntey Love (God, those must have been "Scan and delete" > > days for y'all). > >Evian, you've written some of the funniest stuff I've read on the >list...your >bit about the cat in the dryer brought tears to my eyes. > > > 5.) Who remembers the Sweet Bird thread? (I still have no frigging > > idea what the hell any of that meant -- waaaay above me) > >Hey, that's right when I joined in...talk about being intimidated! I >figured >I'd never be able to communicate to the group, and certainly not at that >level. Then that thread died down, and Julie Z started one about "do you >flush the toilet while you're still peeing" and I knew I'd fit right in. > > > 4.) Who remembers the switch to Smoe? > >Me - AND I remember the introduction of NJC & "Joni-only". > > > 3.) Who remembers buying either M'shell Ndegocello... or whatever, > > Lauryn Hill, or Lucinda Williams because of the raves on the list? > >Bought the Me'Shell...matter of fact listened to it this weekend. A >soul-baring soulful masterpiece of a record. Probably in my top 10. Lauryn >Hill was a gift from Brei, which worked out well as I found it derivative, >pretentious, and dull. Lucinda's "Car Wheels" I bought based on the RS >review, and it too is a masterwork, again probably makes my Top 10. I was >probably one of the folks who pushed it in this forum. > > > 2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? > >There was more than one copy...several folks have them, not just Joni. I >know >Ashara got one at the '99 fest. > >Bob, who also wonders about Catgirl these days > >NP: Otis & Marlena from T (reminds me of Costello's orchestration on The >Juliet Letters) > >You open my heart, you do. >Yes you do. > - JM >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:55:12 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Oil/Politics....(ranting) NJC? > Perhaps, if I may dig myself a bit deeper into this hole, we might begin > with meditation? The spiritual call to arms of the 60s, is it relevant > anymore? it certainly is. Change can only begin within. As for you possibly being full of shit or ignorant-bollocks! your mail was excellent. - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:58:16 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: so sadnjc > i wish she'd just give up cigarettes > laura nyro did she is dead-of cancer-in her 40;s. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:25:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" i was listening to joni from the moment of her first release...& from the first note of her first song on her first album she was unique...her intelligence & her very visual lyrics, her use of alternative chords (tuned to the sound of the day!) & not going with any method of formulaic songwriting...she painted pictures with her words like no other... > Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was her > contribution - lyrical...musical. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:25:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: war what is it good for absolutely nothing NJC thought i'd change the header for those who are tiring of the war/oil thing...:~} kakki >Bottom line is that I wish we were not at all involved in the ME and never were, but that is not reality. We are already in too deep and have been for 60 years. How do you undo that overnight?< i agree & it can't be expected to change overnight... however, being in too deep & for too long is no reason to continue on with something that is not working out...(for a recent example of this just look at what happened in vietnam- i know different details but same idea)... ANY situation can be changed & it starts with a leadership that says enough is enough but that is obviously not the view of our current leadership that seems hell bent on going to war...to create peace? huh? to quote dana carvey doing george sr... "not gonna happen" it's been pointed out here that we've supported saddam & oops! big mistake & we've supported osama & oops! another big mistake...& we keep supplying arms & other war supplies to the good guys who turn out to be the bad guys & somehow we think this is going to make the world a safer place!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? insanity is described as doing the same thing over & over & expecting different results... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:33:38 -0500 From: ewwt@juno.com Subject: Re: Oil/war/UN resolution (njc) (pc) "kakki" wrote << ET (is that you Eric Taylor?) wrote > What really gets me about all of this is the fact that > Reagan/Bush sold Iraq scores of deadly biological agents during the > 1980s, including histoplasma capsulatum ~ a substance that resembles > tuberculosis and influenza, causing enlargement of the liver and spleen > and can also infect the brain, lungs, heart and spinal column. Senate > testimony confirmed that Iraq received at least 72 U.S. shipments of > clones, germs and chemicals ranging from substances that could destroy > crops, give children and animals the bone-deforming disease rickets, to > a nerve gas rated a million times more lethal than Sarin! Can you direct me to an original cite for this? Not that I don't believe you but a lot of shit is going around the internet and a lot gets refuted later but by then the myth is already out of the bag so to speak. Thanks, Kakki >> Hi Kakki! Yes it's me, ET. It's been over two years since I've subscribed to the JMDL. The only link I have is an excellent article by Robert Novak of Crossfire: www.intellivu.com//main.asp?brand=aolsvc.intellivu.aol.com&fnum=142&pat Last month Newsweek did a good story about this. News Washington Bureau Chief, Douglas Turner, published the best article I've read on this subject, entitled "U.S. sent Iraq germs in mid-'80s" on September 23, 2002. Hope this helps. ET ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:39:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Bowling for Columbine NJC not since Dances with Wolves have i had to exit the theatre as fast as possible to find a place to just sob... but i laughed a lot too & mostly just shook my head in amazement ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:57:7 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original (njc) > The other Bob writes: > > << OK, from now on I'm going to go by "Victor"! :~) >> > Then I'm going to be Kakki! Kakki - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:03:37 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: njm political >Hi Kakki, Before we go any further - what does (pc) stand for? Something as simple as personal computer, as opposed to Mac (which I have)? > > Problem with me is I also read about conspiracies saying it >is the world wide socialist internationalists who are behind most of >the chaos in the >world. They want to destroy the current system so that they can finally >have their lifelong dream realized of worldwide communism. There is truly >compelling evidence that this may be true, too, with all the links and connections adding up, etc. Actually, I get the idea that they don't necessarily want worldwide communism. Initially, they simply thought that through their "secret, enlightened" societies, they could organize the rabble of the world into something other than ignorant, chaotic masses. Somehow, money got into the picture: money equals control, type thing. Then they began to view the masses as nothing more, nothing less, than an inferior resource, yet a resource nonetheless. And what are resources for if not to exploit? > > As Jim (hi, I'm nuts, >self-centered, self-destructive and lovin' it) Morrison put it >"They've got the guns but we've got the numbers." Trouble is, we >don't have the numbers. People want to go about their struggles, >pursuits,lives and gather up their own little trickle-down trinkets >off of the Master's tables. Maybe you're right afterall. > Yes, people have not much choice than to go along and try to make a living and survive ultimately. Sure we can overthrow all the rich but where does that then leave us? I am not, and never have advocated "overthrowing" the "rich". "Violence begets violence" - God got that right(what am I implying? He gets EVERYTHING right)! All false religion ends in violence. But back to the "rich, the haves", whatever you want to call them: Even in the Bible, God does not frown on wealth (look what he restored ten-fold to Job, who was already filthy -pardon the term - - extraordinarily rich. Solomon had it all. Isaiah was a very wealthy prince.) It is "the love of money that is the root of all evil." No, I don't want to take away anything from anybody. I do not desire a penny more or a penny less than what I earn. I am not spiteful, jealous, or envious of other's blessings. Yet God does frown terribly on exploiting the poor, the needy, the sick, the old, young. He despises profit by deceit, treachery and murder. My point is that this shadow government is totally unconcerned about the source or consequences of their profits; be it drugs (legal and illegal - they totally control the "regulated" flow of cocaine into our cities under the auspices of an "experiment" - "after all, we can't stop it, so let's attempt to control it". Yeah, and all the tens of billions in HARD, untraceable cash that goes with this "noble endeavor") The legal drugs are a MAJOR part of their coffers: they control the flow and exorbitant prices of these also - it's no longer about educating people to live correctly, eat, exercise, sleep etc. This would totally cripple their multi-hundred billion dollar per year empire. I read something like the average senior has $12,000 in prescriptions a year alone, not counting hospital and physician care!!! 2) military industrial products made only to destroy (of course they use the euphemism "defend") which is a trillion dollar a year industry. They have to continually seek out clients, customers etc.. and don't care much where it all ends up - hell, they scramble to make sure the other side orders from them too. 3) The energy cartel end: where ever it is, they will get their hands on it at all costs, wheeling and dealing, secretive alliances, propped up Dictators. There are other areas. 4)Huge construction projects are a mammoth source of revenue: the $500,000,000 dollar war ship-building facility that Trent Lott rammed through Congress for his district and home state. Those with sense and decency in his state screamed out that it was totally useless, a foolish, wasteful idea. It was never completed and went into bankruptcy, an unfinished mess just sitting there corroding. Who pocketed THAT money? These are just a few of their more visible means of "supporting" the "family". No, I don't want to strip any money off of anyone for redistribution. I don't want a class war. The plundering of the middle-class in the name of looting them and using their hard-earned tax money to exploit and pizz of the rest of the world has simply got to be stopped somehow. I'm afraid it just can't. THEY (the loose-knit shadow fascist government billionaire's club), and they are loose-knit; this is no rigid organization by any means. Some are more powerful than others. I'd just love to know which ones call the "president" and give him direct commands and orders on what to say and do!! It would be far easier to expose and dismantle if it was more outwardly organized) are simply too well dug in. Way, way deeply dug in. It is the untold suffering, strife, and spiritual, physical and mental carnage that they so cavalierly leave in their wake that is despicable. Their "noble" quest to subjugate and "save" us "natives" around the planet (U.S.A. citizens included) from ourselves by lying, hiding their agendas is wickedness incarnate. > Do you think everyone will be pure and devoid of greeed >and the lust for power? It's never happened yet in the history of human >existence. Not on your life do I think that everyone will be devoid of those defects. Yet throughout history there are untold numbers who have. Those who found and accepted the truth. Only those who are justified, sanctified and purified by total surrender and submission to the Holy Spirit through recognition and personal acceptance of the greatest sacrifice in eternity - the sacrifice of God's only begotten son to save a lost, insane asylum of a sin-littered world. Only one person at a time. Only those who chose. > >they didn't share certain information so as not to panic the public> >The perfect excuse. They don't want the public to panic???? Did you >say, "maybe they don't want the public to panic"????? That's all >they've been doing for a year 24/7 on every major news channel and >newspaper chain THEY own is trying to PANIC the public - in case you >didn't notice. ;-) They absolutely want that!! > > No I meant to refer to why people weren't told 20 years ago >when we were receiving threats. I thought you were referring to >that. THEY were causing, perpetrating, inciting sh.t for their financial gains twenty years ago and still are. They don't SHARE these things for the public curiosity and enlightenment. THEY HAVE to HIDE them. ALWAYS. Stealth and duplicity are the methods of choice for accomplishing most of THEIR aims. To be exposed would be to be deposed. THEY will avoid that at all costs, thus layers and layers and layers of lackeys -witting and unwitting. Misinformation galore, all for the public "good". Do you think O.J. thinks he killed Nicole? Of course not, not him. But he Has to realize it was the OTHER O.J. You know, the one he laid to rest in an unmarked grave in his subconscious. So it is with THEM. Franklin "Ritual, tradition and pageantry have never set a sinner free. When the truth is suppressed than an artist must cry. You can steal a soul with a smile and a lie." L.A. Cowboy - "The Brilliant Failure" from the longe,r hidden track version at end of CD of same name. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Fwd: Re: war what is it good for absolutely nothing NJC Hey there, look at me - still cheering from the sidelines munching on popcorn and enjoying the show! LOL! But just one thing or two ... > Kate Bennett wrote: > > it's been pointed out here that we've supported saddam & oops! big mistake & we've supported osama & oops! another big mistake...& we keep supplying arms > > & other war supplies to the good guys who turn out to be the bad guys & > > somehow we think this is going to make the world a safer > > place!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? > > Total agreement sistah Kate. It is just insidious! Considering those in power are supposed to be our greatest minds,yet we get results like this. > Kate says: > > insanity is described as doing the same thing over & over & expecting > > different results... Wow Kate this makes it all the more scary, when you think about it like this. You have cetainly hit this one in the sweet spot, as we say in baseball! Now while I may do this in my own life, the insanity part, I would sure hope that my government and country, said to be the greatest and most powerful in the world, would be incapable of making these same errors over and over again - but there we have it anyway. Back to the sidelines for a beer to cry into. Peace, Susan NP: Linda Ronstadt/Faithless Love U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:50:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, "an original (njc) In a message dated 11/10/2002 6:58:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > Then I'm going to be Kakki! > This works out great, Kakki...but now we have two Kakki's! Victor NP: Joni, "Tea Leaf Prophecy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:09:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: njc political > Not on your life do I think that everyone will be devoid of those > defects. Yet throughout history there are untold numbers who have. > Those who found and accepted the truth. "Only those who are > justified, sanctified and purified by total surrender and submission > to the Holy Spirit through recognition and personal acceptance of the > greatest sacrifice in eternity - the sacrifice of God's only begotten > son to save a lost, insane asylum of a sin-littered world. Only one > person at a time. Only those who chose." > Oh dear dear me, Franklin. you really had me wondering for a while. Now I see you are as power hungry as those you decry. What you so want evryone to believe, the above, is nothing but your idea of what Truth is. Like everyone else, you only have your idea of Truth, not Truth itself. No one has that. It is not possible. Reading something and making a descison to believe it is the Truth, does not make it so. Your faith is in yourself, your judgement, not Truth. It is precisely this effort to force one's world view on others that has caused all the pain and suffering we experience in this world of ours. The words I have put in "" have been the cause of so much pain bloodshed thruoght the last 2000 years. Just stating that, immediately knocks out most of the world and rubbishes their ideas of the world, or spirit, of God etc. Pride and arrogance do not make a spiritual home. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:18:43 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Joni, "an original (njc) Just an observation BUT isn't it weird that Bob Smurph wants to be Ashara and Victor wants to be Kakki? Me thinks this is just a case of V -Envy! Or do I have to spell that out for you kids? And Bob Muller, if you want to be Victor that makes 2 Victors as well - you do the math! LOL! - - Oh unless you are already accepting him as Kakki II. Peace, Susan NP: Beatles/Rubber Soul/It's Only Love > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/10/2002 6:58:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > > > > > Then I'm going to be Kakki! > > > > > This works out great, Kakki...but now we have two Kakki's! > > > > Victor > > > > NP: Joni, "Tea Leaf Prophecy" U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:20:47 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again) : > > > > > > > Dr. SigMondegreen ; ) > > > > Terry > Whatever happened to him? ;-) back ya, Terry! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:42:58 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #477 thanks for your postings. The last few days have been depressing on the board. I haven't heard Travelogue> I plan to get a copy on the 19th when it's released. I have heard some negative reactions to it. I 've been listen to Joni Mitchell since 1968 when I got a copy of STAS. I find it hard to believe with her songs and some of the musicians involved that it's some sappy, sentimental record with syrupy orchestrations. I look forward to the recording and I am sure it's quality is better than most anything sold out there now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:55:30 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" Good question, Jenny. Beautifully put bob.... This group just amazes me! :-) Bree...really watching the weather because of all the tornadic activity in Ohio. November? >jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com write > > > Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was >her > > contribution - lyrical...musical. >Again, I don't know that she is the FIRST to do any of these, I can only >say >that she is the BEST. > >Bob _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:03:23 -0500 From: nyroman Subject: Re: so sadnjc Just to clarify - Laura died of ovarian cancer...... Gary colin wrote: > > > i wish she'd just give up cigarettes > > laura nyro did > > she is dead-of cancer-in her 40;s. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:15:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: What's In A Name? (njc) In a message dated 11/10/2002 8:18:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, groovchacha@yahoo.com writes: > And Bob Muller, if you want to be Victor that makes 2 Victors as well - you > do the math! LOL! > - Oh unless you are already accepting him as Kakki II. > That's right...Victor is Kakki, so now there's only 1 Victor - me. There are two Ashara's now, but that's OK because the original Ashara doesn't post much unless she has a fest announcement or needs healing light sent to her rear. There are 2 Kakkis though, which presents a problem. My solution...Kakki should become Brei, since he's not on the list anymore, but then if she typo's it could come out as Bree and then we'd have 2 Bree's. Oh dear. She can't pick Evian or Terry because (thankfully) they're both posting again. Maybe Kakki could become Meriweather...he's not around...but then someone might think it's Lee Meriweather, who played Catwoman which sounds a lot like Catgirl...oh shit! This has all become so confusing...and it's Ashara-Murphy's fault! Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:56:14 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Evian's trip down memory lane NJC now a case of missing Brei among other things, Kakki asked: <> I guess he is busy "talking" and "visiting" with his wife. Mrs. Brei aka his alien shiksa ;-) lol!! You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:06:02 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! >I guess we all screwed up when we didn't give Joni what she really needs >for >her birthday: an anger management course. Sadly..I agree. You know Joni has never ever done any wrong in my eyes, but with her latest comments, I found these were way beneath her. Made her *littler*... glimmer lost a little. (I hate this!) >Although I am not a huge fan of Madonna, I do think she is a great example >of >someone who has absolutely made the most of what little talent she has, in >addition to being a very smart businesswoman and a PR genius. (And a Joni >fan, for chrissakes.) Nor am I a fan. I own none of her music. I agree..Bob..she even said in a recent interview as much when she talked about these people from France who manufactured her or helped to at the very beginning. Then she said something, you know, about *The star making machinery*. I did not like the breaking out Madonna or the overtly sexual period..but the mature Madonna I can take. In this same interview she told the interviewer that she does not let her children watch TV. She reads to them bedtime stories and the Old Testament. This sad interviewer did not follow up with any questions. She has sang some pretty decent pop songs...many like Mack said...DANCEABLE. Why Joni should you be worried about mediocre Madonna? >Call me crazy, but I think musical acts are at their most >entertaining when they're making music. Good point! I'm thinking too of my favorite film stars, when I've seen them interviewed, I'm usually disappointed. It ruins it for me. >Joni should get over being "ashamed to be in the music business" and start >thinking about the hurtful things she says about people who admire her. >God, >I can only imagine what she would think of someone who takes the time to >respond to one of her outbursts by posting to this list. I don't mind her railing against the music industry...the industry hAs it coming. I don't like it when she makes it personal...naming names. Bree (who likes Letterman ...oh Dave...Dave...) > -- Bob _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:28:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: julie Z NJC as a matter of fact, today's her birthday!!! talk about synchro. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de kakki Enviado el: Domingo, 10 de Noviembre de 2002 03:36 p.m. Para: Mags N Brei; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; evian@sk.sympatico.ca; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Evian's trip down memory lane NJC Hi Mags, > where is Julie Z? Heard from her a year ago but nothing since. We should try to find her. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:53:50 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: What's In A Name? (njc) Victor Muller writes: << it's Ashara-Murphy's fault! >> Isn't that always the case? And I try so hard to make everything nice for you all . . . --Ashara Murphy, giving you the Jewish mother guilt trip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:07:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - njc Bree writes: << She has sang some pretty decent pop songs...many like Mack said...DANCEABLE. Why Joni should you be worried about mediocre Madonna? >> Yeah, Joni, lighten up! It's DANCE music, for pete's sake! As many of you know, I work as a stripper in a gay bar on weekends. I am very happy whenever the DJ spins a Madonna tune, and patrons are always praising the dances I perform for her songs. I have a "Ray of Light" routine that's spectacular, if I say so myself. My gold lame jock strap always gets stuffed with lots of big bucks when I dance to Madonna. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:15:07 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: njc re: Outlook Express Speaking of which- After all this time, I've finally learned how to save Outlook mail on a disk. But I have no idea how the hell to open the files to read old mail there. Do you need a certain program to read .pst files?? Any techies on board here? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:14:39 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! - njc Bree writes: > ><< She has sang some pretty decent pop songs...many like Mack >said...DANCEABLE. > Why Joni should you be worried about mediocre Madonna? >> Bree correction: Correcting my poor english here: She has *sung* some pretty decent pop songs.. My sixth grade English teacher Sister Mary Cleophas a.k.a. Roachface is turning over in her grave about now. >Yeah, Joni, lighten up! It's DANCE music, for pete's sake! >As many of you know, I work as a stripper in a gay bar on weekends. I am >very >happy whenever the DJ spins a Madonna tune, and patrons are always praising >the dances I perform for her songs. I have a "Ray of Light" routine that's >spectacular, if I say so myself. My gold lame jock strap always gets >stuffed >with lots of big bucks when I dance to Madonna. LOL!! I had heard the rumor..but was afraid to ask was it true. Maybe a routine at the fest? Bree _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:29:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joni, "an original" Goodspeed, let's leave it at what? You didn't SAY anything! What do YOU think? Why did you raise all of these questions for ME to answer? :) C'mon. You've got a fine head on your shoulders! Give it up, girl! You're old enough to sit with the grownups. Speak! Speak! Lama Jenny said, >> So - this all has me thinking - when is an artist ground breaking - when an artist truly comes up with something new or combines influences in a way that has never been done before? Specifically - when do you think Joni broke some ground? And what was her contribution - lyrical...musical. For pop/rock music history buffs - or heck for people who were actually cognizant at the time - how do you see Joni in the context of popular music? How about in music in general? Did she truly become an original right of the bat with STAS - or was that more a logical, albeit creative outflow of what was happening around and before her? I have a zillion other thoughts/questions, but let's leave it at that....>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:08:24 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Tale of Two Bobs (don't make a right?) njc I had a similar problem. After the 3rd person said, "Hey Jim, thanks for jm.com!" I decided to call myself "Lama". Ask Kakki about the clarity of having a screen name. Lama PS, I don't think calling them both "BM" is a solution either...... np: PazFest, disc 1. Did I mention how nice the photos are? Jenny said, >You know it just dawned on me today that I can't distinguish between the two Bobs in an email by referring to one of them as Bob M. Geez can't you guys do something about this?> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 1:38:5 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: RE: so sad Oy Vasmir. > [Original Message] > From: walterphil > To: > Date: 11/10/2002 5:22:31 PM > Subject: so sad > > listened to the "travelog" links today > and i find them so sad > > why would joni release so many of her old songs > when to me every comparison > to the way her voice used to sound > just makes me wince. > > and just as i thought--- > i hate the lame orchestrations > > i wish she'd just give up cigarettes > laura nyro did > and her voice improved. > judy collins and joan baez' voices are still beautiful > and neither smokes. > i just wonder if jonis would improve. > i'll bet it would. > > i guess she just doesn't care that much > i read in an interview once > when she had that throat thing > she said "they tried to blame it on my cigarettes" > "my" cigarettes indeed. > in the same interview she went on to say how she > preferred billie holiday's later singing voice. > rubbish. > i know it's a matter of opinion, but give me > the 30's billie over the > lady in satin period any day. > > and those recent quotes about madonna-- > so pathetic > i love madonna > yet i realize she isn't half the "artist" joni is > and anyone who would give a listen to > "ray of light" could see how much > madonna is influenced by > and respects joni. > it's just so obvious to me that > "ray" is kind of madonna's "hejira" > > i'm sure madonna was very hurt when she read > joni's comments. > > i also wonder if joni ever listened to > "ray of light" or "music" > i'll bet money she never has. > > i'll still always love joni > and i will listen > when she drags out that gutair again > and sings a new song. > > in the meantime i will listen to > "seagull" and "clouds" and "roses" > and "nightride home" for the zillionth time > > xxx > walt > The most personalized portal on the Web! - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #479 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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