From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #476 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 10 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 476 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) [colin ] [none] [Franklin Shea ] Fw: Fw: The art of misreading. NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Fw: Fw: The art of misreading. NJC [colin ] Meriwether Lewis(NJC) ["Darice(darice@mindspring.com)"] Re: Madonna, Eminem NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] DED njc ["mack watson-bush" ] No messin' ["William" ] Requesting help from Joni fans... [Jesika Nisly ] Re: NJC - What do Bush and Madonna have in common? ["kakki" ] Re: Travelogue question (again) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] ouch! njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: Evian takes us down the memory trail - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:13:02 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) Jenny wrote: > A couple more thoughts: > I think the humanitarian argument for initiating a war doesn't fly because it is selective. If we were driven by this, >then we would intervene far more often in the world than we do. It's a matter of numbers and resources - more people and countries, including the U.S,. are in direct immediate danger from Saddam at this time. If he can be stopped, it is ultimately a humanitarian "win" and may possibly make other despots around the world think twice. > And frankly, when it was to our perceived benefit to support Saddam against Iran, we took them off the list of >countries who supported terrorists and began helping to build them economically and militarily. That was back when Iran was attacking U.S. citizens and avowing itself as an enemy of the U.S.. Not to say it wasn't completely boneheaded to have been so quick to support Saddam. I think the reasoning at the time was to let both of them focus on each other rather than other countries. I've seen this question and heard it answered that the U.S. was also an ally of Stalin in WWII but then that all changed very quickly after that war as we all know. > And the argument that a regime change is necessary for the safety of Americans...I'm still waiting for someone to >explain how launching an attack will make us safer? I'm still waiting for someone to explain how not trying to stop him will make us safer. If we don't do anything and are attacked in the U.S. with anthrax and smallpox and dirty nukes, which they probably already have in place here, then what do we say? I know a lot of people will say it's all Bush's fault, either way. That will make some people happy because they can feel they were right all along but what a pyrrhic victory for them. What suggestions do you have to stop the threat? I don't mean that facetiously but it seems no one has any better ideas. >Has our intervention and involvement in the middle east *ever* made us safer? Yes, for years we've stopped a lot of terrorist groups in the mid-east from attacking us more than they would have if we had just let them go unchecked. However, a lot of our interventions and how they stopped us from harm will never be detailed on TV or universally disseminated. I know this for a fact, and I know that many people in the U.S. who have worked in the government or military also know this for a fact, but are constrained from giving out the details to the public. I'd like to give my own personal knowledge of such instances but I think classified security clearances are in effect forever. >CIA director George Tenet has said >an attack may provoke Saddam to use biological and chemical weapons and >convince him to begin in earnest to >support terrorist attacks against americans. Has George Tenet presented us with a better alternative plan? I haven't seen any, other than to not do anything. With all this said, I would still like more details released to the public as to why Saddam is an imminent threat. Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleeza Rice both gave interviews on TV back in September stating unequivocally that there is hard evidence linking Iraq and Saddam with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. I am surprised that more people did not notice this but a lot gets lost in the news coverage. I'd like to hear more about the direct evidence to help myself and others understand the threat better. Although, it's not much of a stretch for me for me to think they are involved with each other. I think we are between a rock and a hard place. All we can do is hope that Saddam agrees with the UN resolution and agrees to the start complying again with the UN rules in his country. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:40:30 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) > All we can do is hope that Saddam > agrees with the UN resolution and agrees to the start complying again with > the UN rules in his country. > even tho other countries ignore the UN and it's resolutions? There is a case against Hussein, yes. But why should he listen when he sees the double standards? When he sees others ignoring the UN? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:46:21 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: [none] >Mark stated: > >"I used to identify with Joni's description of herself in 'People's >Parties' - 'I'm just living on nerves and feelings with a weak and a lazy >mind'. Maybe I'm not so much nerves and feelings anymore and I wouldn't say >I was weak-minded. But the lazy part probably still applies. So I don't >know that I would be a particularly interesting correspondent for you. But >I do find what you write to be interesting and certainly provocative. So >feel free to email me anytime if you feel so inclined. Just bear in mind >that you might find me somewhat limited in what I know or might think I know." Couldn't agree with that last Joni quote more!! You strike me as a thoughtful, intelligent, articulate soul (now that's just my opinion - - but I do value it highly) lol. I think you're quite sharper than your self-image would lead you to believe. You asked whether I read much or not. I do read voraciously - mostly older books. I have one of the largest private collections of philosophical books from the 1800's - you know, back when people thought and spoke in more than just sentence fragments. I also read anything current from media sources I consider honest, accurate and intelligent. That certainly doesn't include the much of the mainstream ones (funny, but it's kind of like music that way.) I have VERY specific tastes in music. It must be intelligent, articulate, personal (as far as gaining something from it) and performed by national caliber musicians. There are so few with the artistic capacity of Joni in pulling all these together. To name a few: Some John Haitt (a couple anyway, some of them are pretty pedestrian - "Bring the Family" was excellent (Ry Cooder on lead guitar - it should be!). Early (first three) Steve Earle CDs, Carly Simon, first Chris Whitley CD, Cat Stevens, are a few that I can at least appreciate. Even some of them have too much *filler* on their CDs. I don't know if you've noticed my total, unabashed regard for the works of L.A. Cowboy. If you love Joni's wit, wisdom, poetic poise, class, sense of responsibility to her audience, artistic risk-taking and charm - you just might thoroughly enjoy the Cowboy's (as we die-hard fans call him) large and eclectic catalog of material. And I swear,this guy simply doesn't write "filler". You might like some of his songs and styles more than others, but it is all totally credible. Kind of like Joni. You feel like you aren't wasting your money to get just one or two "catchy" songs on an album full of bona fide clunkers. Do you know the feeling? Johi's been fairly consistent about avoiding the "filler" folly also. Too inspired, too smart to resort to mediocrity or mush. Just in case you're interested, you can find a great sampling of the Cowboy at http://www.mp3.com/lacowboy If you're not registered there, it only takes a minute or two. Then you have free access forever. They just want to keep track of the numbers of visitors that go there I think. It is more than worth the time - if you have DSL or Broadband connection that is. Phone modems stink for streaming the music there. If you do check him out, let me know if I'm on track in my description of his varied abilities. BTW, I tried to get his label to get him to check out Joni's boards. I e-mailed them and told them that he should have a set-up like this one. The manager actually *e*d me back and said she'd investigate it. She seems quite cool and intelligent in her note. Apparently a "real" music lover. Maybe she'll join the fray over here. Thank you again for your fine correspondence. Hope to keep hearing from you. NP - highband streaming the Limeliters entire play list on http://www.mp3.com/limeliters, while cooking some gourmet vegetarian fare. What a hoot they are! Really classy, witty, charming. What extraordinary musician/storytellers! Great performers!! I'd love to see them live. Franklin P.S. I plan to address my take on the M&M approach to "art" and "music" very shortly, particularly his "contributions" to humanity in general. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:45:33 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Fw: The art of misreading. NJC Colin wrote: LOL! You are of course quite right! I think it unlikely that you will find a 13" on either race and if you do, then what the hell would you do with it anyway? My reply: How the hell would I know? Never did like the damn things:) KaseyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:49:28 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Content Very sorry. Forgot to put SJM content on last correspondence that I just sent. Kicking myself. Please bear with me... I'll catch on sooner than later, I promise - Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:53:53 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: The art of misreading. NJC kasey simpson wrote: > Colin wrote: > LOL! You are of course quite right! I think it unlikely that you will find a > 13" > on either race and if you do, then what the hell would you do with it anyway? > > My reply: > How the hell would I know? Never did like the damn things:) yes well lesbians don't have much taste...ever notice the way they dress? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:57:39 -0500 From: "Darice(darice@mindspring.com)" Subject: Meriwether Lewis(NJC) The things I remember about Meri... His trip to SF was the catalyst for the first ever face-to-face JMDL meetings (I think). Wally B, MG Val, Leslie and Steve Nixon were among the guests. Meri is related to Emmylou Harris...and provided me with some rare Gram Parsons recordings.... Meri was the voice of reason and grace ...but also wickedly funny... God, I miss some of our MIA "elders" Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:10:22 EST From: KLCass21@aol.com Subject: Grammy cut off date <> I believe it is Sept 30. I like the updated Amelia but, I have to tell you all that Flat Tires just blew me away! Anxiously awaiting the 19th - Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:32:43 EST From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: njc 8 Mile Rev V, And a good job you did! Thanks for the clarifications. I've not followed his music, but have been curious about what he's all about and will try and get out to see the movie. I grew up a mile south of 8 Mile. Terry > I probably should get hired as one of his publicists. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:37:22 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war/UN resolution (njc) (pc) Colin asked: > There is a case against Hussein, yes. But why should he listen when he sees the > double standards? When he sees others ignoring the UN? Maybe it's more that he has ignored the resolutions for years and the UN and its members have basically let him get away with it repeatedly. He threw the inspectors out back in the 90s and not much has been done about it until now. I thought about posting the latest UN resolution but it is way too long to post here. If anyone wants it, I'll be happy to send it offlist. Here is the begiinning of it however, which cites the number of previous resolutions he had defied: "RECALLING all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its president," ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:31:50 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Madonna, Eminem NJC Bob wrote: > Franklin, I loved your piece on Madonna - brilliant. The exact opposite of my take on it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:01:31 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) Kate wrote: > actually i was speaking in terms of what motivates wealthy people in > general...it is generally not the accumulation of wealth but something more > than that... which of course depends on the individual...one would have to > know more about the individual to understand what that motivation might > be... Sorry if I misread you. It didn't seem general when you followed it with the next sentence which seems like you were saying Bush and Cheney are so motivated: >>i'd say reading biographys (plural) is a very good suggestion as to understanding the motivations of gwb & cheney cuz a leopard doesn't change his spots...>> Then you wrote: > no certainly not...but our govt (both parties btw) foreign policies have > been the cause of problems as much as the solutions...is this not true? does > anyone believe the us govt has been faultless in this area? No, and I think more people are becoming more educated and starting to think about US policy over the years these days. > i am not sure how the above relates to anything i wrote in my post... This is what you wrote in your previous post: >yes & it seems to me that same logic seems to apply to many in this country >as well...attrocities have been commited by our country & other countries ad >nasueum...when do we call a hault to this kind of blaiming & finger pointing >& war mongering & start working on real solutions...starting with having >some basic understanding of other cultures would be a nice start... >the above statement can apply to many people who sign up for a military service... Maybe I am reacting too much and reading too much into it all but this seems to follow along the U.S.'s equivalency with terrorists statements made here a number of times. I do see a difference between the U.S. conducts itself on many levels and the way that terrorists conduct themselves. I see now that you are including both political parties in the equation as far as the problem and the solution. I apologize if you have included other political parties before as having accountability. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:25:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: DED njc DED finally arrived. After all I had read here about it, I was afraid it was some very dark music that I probably would not like. To be short and to the point, I love it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 03:24:54 -0000 From: "William" Subject: No messin' Jeez, it's 3am here in Bonnie (curses to that MSN when ye have good mates in NYC and SF) and I'm still listening to Dawntreader et al. I get the feeling the earlier songs work best with the orchestration - Both Sides Now and A Case of You on BSN - and how ironic considering that they were all written with so few extra bits in the first place. Did I hear some jolly little punctuations around the 'strains of Benny Goodman' bars? The road signs in Texas say, 'Don't mess with Texas'. I wanna get T-shirts printed that read, 'Don't mess with Hejira'. Ha ha ha and a hangover from hell tomorrow. Wicked. WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:31:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jesika Nisly Subject: Requesting help from Joni fans... Hello. I am brand new to this discussion list, but I hope that it is an answer to my prayer for help! I emailed someone from jonimitchell.com requesting help: I am a college student doing a project for a Comp class and I was assigned to research an author. Of course, I chose the beloved Joni Mitchell. In my class I gave a very brief bio, sang and played "The Circle Game." Now I am supposed to do a formal research paper on her. As part of my paper, I am to do a "personal interview" with a fan of hers. Besides myself, I cannot seem to find anyone to interview. I asked around, and felt that every road was a dead end. It was so strange. I thought it would be easy to find a fan, but it just was not turning out like expected. Most people my age haven't even heard of her (I am 20), and the older folks I know like her, but aren't really fans. In desperation, I went back onto the jonimitchell.com website and sent an email looking for help. Well, the very same day I got a reply and a recommendation to join this list, where I should be able to find a fan who would be willing to answer some questions. If anyone is a fan willing to answer a few questions about when they started listening to Joni, what they like most about her (and other things like that), I would really appreciate your reply. PLease let me know ASAP Thank you so much, Jesika Nisly U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:25:41 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NJC - What do Bush and Madonna have in common? Hi Franklin, you wrote: > Then theres Bush 43. Does anybody in their right mind really think > he is running this country? Someone remarked that with their (Bush > and Cheney) "vast wealth" they don't need to provoke any conflicts > for the sake of personal gain. I've got news for you: they have no > choice, and they know it. Puppets both. They can't even take a dump > without permission from their "handlers". We slid, or were rather adeptly guided, into a unique, subtly > instigated plutocracy, run by the shadow fascist, despotic, > Industrialist Billionaire's club. Both of the Bushs and Cheney are > nothing more than waterboys for this secret roundtable of renegade > taskmasters. Would that be the New World Order, Skull and Bones, Illuminati, Greys and Reptilians consortium? LOL >It is about oil (twenty percent of the world's reserves are in Iraq, and he's the easiest nut to crack - > simply because he is such a wacky character himself). Do you have a cite to the 20% number? I find it a bit high considering all the reserves in the rest of the world. Do you have any information as to why the New World Order shadow government didn't let Bush I go all the way and take out Saddam and take over Iraq for the oil in '91? Was the market not quite right for it at that point? ;-) >It is about natural gas: (Uzbekistan has the largest known gas reserves in the > world, and it HAS to be piped through Afghanistan in order to be > easily transported). It is about terrifying the American public into > a frenzy - all the easier to manipulate, coerce and control them. Good news! That has all been debunked! They saw that Afghanistan was land-locked and had all those impossible mountain ranges to tunnel through. Take a look at the map and see the enormously closer and easier routes to the Caspian Sea through Turkistan! > What we need is more "spiritual" environmentalism. Nothing is going to change, except perhaps you and > I. It has all simply gone way, way too far to stop. Great thought and interesting post. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 22:48:44 -0600 From: Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley Subject: RE: Travelogue question (again) Ok, so Jimmy jogged the memory -- let's make a list to see who can remember what: 10.) Who remembers... lol, now I can't think of her name -- she was a big Ferron fan... jog my memory. 9.) Who remembers Bob BEFORE he has "Joni" in his email address? Did the Joni email start when he sold kayaks? Or, who remembers when Kakki was an AT&T girl? 8.) Where oh where has our Jason Maloney gone....? 7.) Who remembers our frantic search for the AT&T Don Henley benefit cd thing with Joni? 6.) Who remembers my incessant ramblings about the genius of Stevie Nicks and Courntey Love (God, those must have been "Scan and delete" days for y'all). 5.) Who remembers the Sweet Bird thread? (I still have no frigging idea what the hell any of that meant -- waaaay above me) 4.) Who remembers the switch to Smoe? 3.) Who remembers buying either M'shell Ndegocello... or whatever, Lauryn Hill, or Lucinda Williams because of the raves on the list? 2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? 1.) Who can think of at least 3 times when a private email accidently got posted to the list (still saying Hail Marys here for that one, let me tell ya!) P.S. -- we really SHOULD do a list of favorites again -- those are always fun and always changing. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:20:14 -0500 From: vince Subject: Evian takes us down the memory trail Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley wrote: > Ok, so Jimmy jogged the memory -- let's make a list to see who can > remember what: > 10.) Who remembers... lol, now I can't think of her name -- she was a > big Ferron fan... jog my memory. no clue > > 9.) Who remembers Bob BEFORE he has "Joni" in his email address? Did > the Joni email start when he sold kayaks? Or, who remembers when Kakki > was an AT&T girl? RMuRocks, which is how he still is in my email folders, he had some long explanation, who remembers, part of it was to pay homage to Joni. No memory of Kakki and ATT. > > 8.) Where oh where has our Jason Maloney gone....? Damn good question. Also, Kate Tarensenko and her chili friends in CT I believe, and Jenaya Dawe. And Michael Yarbrough, is he still a member, and a great guy, had a name like Wolf or something, from Chicago, met him in Chicago in the 2000 tour, and cassysweet from Detroit... > > 7.) Who remembers our frantic search for the AT&T Don Henley benefit cd > thing with Joni? I do! > > 6.) Who remembers my incessant ramblings about the genius of Stevie > Nicks and Courntey Love (God, those must have been "Scan and delete" > days for y'all). don't remember, actually be curious to compare your rants of praise of genius for Courtney Love and compare to my touting my faves... > > 5.) Who remembers the Sweet Bird thread? (I still have no frigging > idea what the hell any of that meant -- waaaay above me) not me > > 4.) Who remembers the switch to Smoe? I think I do > > 3.) Who remembers buying either M'shell Ndegocello... or whatever, > Lauryn Hill, or Lucinda Williams because of the raves on the list? Had M'shell before I got here and was never swayed on Hill or Williams. And hell, I still don't believe Jonatha Brooks really exists, I think they are just conning us. Evian. > > 2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? did it ever happen? Didn't Joni get the only copy? My recollection is dim. > > 1.) Who can think of at least 3 times when a private email accidently > got posted to the list (still saying Hail Marys here for that one, let > me tell ya!) oh hell yes, the one best was the love letter to the man not the husband of the poster, and how embarrassed she was. Felt so bad for the poster, who i think left us soon after. > > > P.S. -- we really SHOULD do a list of favorites again -- those are > always fun and always changing. I remember suggesting the "case" in 'case of you' was a case of beer, having totally lost awareness of the little line about 'you are in my blood like holy wine' -- after the wine buyers by the case pummeled me for weeks for my stupidest lyric interpretation ever, a title I am proud to still hold since no one else has been as embarrassed as I was - then we had the long debate over whether Joni would be so diclassi as to drink beer, which was finally resolved with first hand testimony of Joni and beer sightings and I believe a few pictures of Joni with beer can in hand. And Evian turns 30 and Evian has a kid - lots of fun memories there. oh, sweet memories. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:37:48 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again) > Ok, so Jimmy jogged the memory -- let's make a list to see who can > remember what: > 10.) Who remembers... lol, now I can't think of her name -- she was a > big Ferron fan... jog my memory. Susan Chaloner! There was a character if ever there was one. Anyone remember La Vierge de Huile? (how could you forget him?) >> 3.) Who remembers buying either M'shell Ndegocello... or whatever, > Lauryn Hill, or Lucinda Williams because of the raves on the list? Love Lucinda. Enjoy the Lauryn Hill. Still don't understand what all the fuss was about over 'Bitter' although I do think M'shell is a talented singer with an incredibly soulful and seductive voice. > 2.) Who remembers the cookbook idea? I think Vince was right. Joni got the only copy. > 1.) Who can think of at least 3 times when a private email accidently > got posted to the list (still saying Hail Marys here for that one, let > me tell ya!) Oy vey, Maria! That has caused some major shit to hit the fan from time to time hasn't it? > > P.S. -- we really SHOULD do a list of favorites again -- those are > always fun and always changing. > > Evian You're one of my favorites, Evian. How is fatherhood these days? Great to see you posting every now & then. Mark in Seattle (now Mark E. in Seattle) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:32:19 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) Hi Anne, Thanks for your thoughtful post. Franklin has had me engaged offlist explaining his case for the world wide conspiracy of billionaires who control everything. I must admit that taking that view is somehow freeing - there's nothing we can do about it because they already control everything. ;-) > Well, the world was mourning for us, grieving with us. > There was a moment when we could have said, "Enough." > We could have called a summit of all the Arab nations > and Israel. "Please, help us solve this problem." We > could have used the opportunity to begin to forge > alliances. And we could have done so even though we > took military action in Afghanistan. Mind you, I don't > believe we could have implicitly trusted anyone > involved, but we could have taken that first small step > towards inclusion and understanding. We didn't. I wish it could have been this way but we had to take immediate steps to try to defend ourselves. I'm sorry to be cyncial but I think if we went to many of the Arab countries and Israel and asked them to help us, some may have had some sympathy for us, but they have their own self-interests which come first in their countries, too. We have pleaded with countries all around the world to crack down on terrorists and many (Yemen, Pakistan, Morocco, Philippines and a number of others) have helped us in that way. We have warned Israel several times in the past year when we felt they have gone too far and have been trying for months to get them back to the table for a resolution of the Palestinian situation. From my own self-interested standpoint, I have heard enough about the threats to us for enough years to think it is real. Living in a target area I am constantly reading and watching the news. Al Queda, in conjunction with other terrorist groups, some with Iraqi connections, were apprehended back in 1999 with plans to bomb out L.A. airport, and plans to hijack and blow up several airplanes simultaneously coming to L.A. and S.F. There are a number of known terrorist cells all over the U.S. and several in California. Some of the 9/11 hijackers took flying lessons in San Diego. One of the guys just killed in Yemen was a U.S. citizen who was born in Cal and lived here until recently. He is tied to the 9/11 hijackers and the bombing of the USS Cole. Since 9/11 I have witnessed innumerable nights of military helicopters doing exercises and scanning downtown L.A., in addition to numerous nights of bomb squad, SWAT team, police and fire personnel conducting exercises. Maybe this is all just some big fiction orchestrated by the shadow government, but it's certainly hard for me to easily take that view. > And now most of the world hates us. It was an opportunity missed. Many in the world do not hate us and the ones who do have always hated us anyway to the point where I don't think anything we could do could make them love us. It is in their own self-interest to hate us. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:31:15 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: ouch! njc Well, okay. BUT remember, you ASS-ked for it. By all of the earthly powers vested in me, I command the fairies and unicorns in the New Worlde to focus healing light upon Ashara's ailing back. May the magic of Full Moon restore her fair moon to its original glory. (I'm guessing her moon was both fair and glorious. I'm *presuming* for the sake of the incantation, okay?) :) Seriously, Ashara, do take care and heal up fast. I hear that listening to NEW MUSIC is quite effective at rejuvenating whatever ails you!! Lama Ashara said, >>>>For those of you that feel so inclined, please send some prayers, healing light, whatever to my tailbone. :-) Hugs, Ashara>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:38:50 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Evian takes us down the memory trail - njc I've been here for about 2 1/2 years. Who the hell is Evian? Also, where is Catgirl? And Big Walt? I can't get him to answer my off-list e-mail. --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #476 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)