From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #473 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 473 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC PC the election ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Travelogue question (again)... Grammy's ["Brenda" ] Travelogue question (again) now njc [Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley ] Some Up and Coming Joni Fans? ["Kate Bennett" ] Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] Re: NJC - What do Bush and Madonna have in common? [Franklin Shea ] Re: S. Dan Music NJC ["William Chavez" ] njc 8 Mile [vince ] can I say, Joni vs Em? [vince ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #468 - pots and kettles NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: those songs you really just HATE (njc) short ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama] Hard Days Great Nights (NJC) [Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC PC the election Kate wrote: > > me too, though i'm proud of californian's boxer & capps who stood up against > the war...feinstein didn't Kate, thanks for the info. I have always been a big fan of Feinstein and Boxer but wasn't aware that Dianne sold out on this one. She is off of my Christmas list and all others as well. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:36:43 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again)... Grammy's On 8 Nov 2002 at 20:05, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2002 5:27:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > FMYFL@aol.com writes: > > > Someone???? > > > > > > You're right Jimmy, it won't be eligible for a Grammy until 2004. I > don't know if that's true, but at least now you have a resonse! :~) > You're right, Bob. The cutoff is September 30th. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:45:43 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #331 I like what I've heard so far - - but I do have to admit I thought Woodstock might have fit nicely on the soundtrack for Cleopatra ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:00:12 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) Ronald wrote: But you don't admire her for her writing or composing. She > can't play a lick on any instrument as far as I know. You admire her because > she has recreated herself over and over again. I am a Madonna fan. Not a huge one but do like her music nevertheless. I do admire her for what she has accomplished though not for the above written reason. I admire that she has put herself out there and has not allowed others ideas, perceptions, and limitations stop her from doing what she wanted to do. She is no hypocrite and I admire that. As for not playing an instrument, that is apples and oranges and as far as I know, Joni Mitchell can't dance. No, she is no Joni Mitchell but then again Joni Mitchell is no Madonna. Just depends on who's listening and what they are listening/looking for. Compare "Die Hard" to "A Clockwork Orange"? If he has seen both, > Josh may think are great action flicks, but can't understand why the bad guy > wasn't disposed of in Kubrick's flick. Die Hard was much more satisfying. > Compare "Like a Virgin" with "Shades of Scarlett Conquering"? "Holiday" to > "Edith and the King Pin"? Come-on! Don't even go there! > Again, apples and oranges. Those fans of 'Diehard' are diehard fans and would not begin to bother with Kubrick. One thing I have learned is that what I believe is not necessarily right and what I feel is the best, whatever that may be, is only my opinion. Doesn't make it so. All depends on the perception. on Hallmark cards I would imagine that those who write those cards think each and every one is a masterpiece, and they well might be. JMor some new > artist out there who can affect him as JM has many of us. But I wouldn't bet > on it. Well, of course he may as many have and though they may be artists we find subpar, they might lead him to the catharsis of his life. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:56:19 EST From: Chihuahua50@aol.com Subject: Travelogue Call me old-fashioned, but I'm waiting to hear Travelogue until I buy the CD. It will be a holy day. I will come home, turn the phone off, turn off all the lights, light a candle, and sit and listen in the dark. Maybe I won't like it. Maybe it will be heaven. Either way I know that eventually, with a little luck and time, I'll catch up with Joni. I remember the first time I heard For the Roses. I didn't like it. It was a friend's copy and I didn't even buy my own copy until many years later. Now it's my second favorite CD by Joni. (Hejira being first.) I owned Paprika Plains for years and never listened to it. Now it's one of my favorites. I hope I will immediately love Travelogue. But if I don't, that's okay. I'll just think of it as long, slow foreplay. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:11:43 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) Bob wrote: > > "Borderline" to "Borderline"? ;~) I like the Madonna tune much more than the Mitchell tune. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:29:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) In a message dated 11/8/2002 10:05:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, courtandspark@earthlink.net writes: > I like the Madonna tune much more than the Mitchell tune. > Lyrically I would favor the Mitchell, but the Madonna's got a good beat, you can dance to it, I'll give it a 98 and I prefer it too. Bob, imagining what Joni would look like in one o' them pointy bra's with with her Miyake! :~D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only Lori wrote: > Why is it that hardly anyone ever suggests that it's MEN who > should "get SNIPPED?" Seems to me THAT option might be beneficial in > lots of other scenarios, including reducing aggressive behavior. and then Victor responded: It's funny how people seem to forget that it takes two people to get a woman pregnant, and the man bears just as much responsibility and it could be argued, more responsibility than the woman...even the language itself, "getting someone pregnant", suggests that an action is being done to a woman. I wish men would seek to understand, admire, and truly love women instead of placing blame on them for everything that is wrong in the world and using them for their own gratification. There are terrible crimes being committed against women every day...even here in quiet, peaceful Western North Carolina. and now me: I agree that men do need to assume responsibility too. Sad to say many women stand alone when it comes down to staring into the centre of a positive result. Victor, thanks ever so much for this meaningful post. Validation, understanding and acknowledgment speaks volumes. There's something so special when men have the chutzpah to speak out on this issue. Thanks for the support. Mags . You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:32:35 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday In a message dated 11/8/2002 6:37:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > major thanks to yael who really helped jeff &i in so many ways...i haven't > heard the tape yet but here is the set list: > Kate, I don't know if I'm grateful for the setlist, or if it's driving me crazy that I didn't hear it! Anyway, thanks for posting it - what an incredible list. Don't know all the performers but if they're of your caliber than it was a helluva night I'm sure! If there's any way to sneak me a copy that I can listen to I would be your best friend forever! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:52:33 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Some Up and Coming Joni Fans? What a wonderful post!! It is times like this that I wished I had children. But then again..the diapers...terrible two's... I think they did.. I just think they did!! Thanks for sharing. Bree >Do you think they get it?? Could it be so?? Well, they once seemed to get >along for about 24 hours and then that all fell apart, so I won't hold my >breath. It's a glimmer, though, and I'll take a glimmer. Glimmer is good. > >Musing, >Lindsay _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:22:14 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) Bob wrote: Lyrically I would favor the Mitchell, but the Madonna's got a good beat, you can dance to it, I'll give it a 98 and I prefer it too. Philosophically, and that is why I like Joni, I would give Joni the nod but lyrically in general I would still go with the Madonna tune. Simple? Yes, but when emotions enter into it and one has been where the lyricist of that tune was or had been, then his/her words become paramount and touch a part of the heart that no other tune/or words can. This is my favorite Madonna tune. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:27:29 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) Sorry about that. My comments are connected with Bob's. His is the first and the one that makes the most sense. Mine is the paragraph that rambles. lol mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:31:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday bob i'd love to, but ask paz what its like to get permission from so many artists to release their live performances to someone they don't know... i'm working on it but first i have to get copies to the artists to let them hear it (oh, & suprise, most of them had no idea they were being taped! i had to deal with that one last year but got everyone to finally trust that i would not send the copy to anyone but the artists who performed) i've been listening tonight to the tapes & am about 2/3 of the way through...for a one track dat into the board recording its not too shabby... next year's show, if i follow the nov 7th theme, will be on a friday night ... so start planning! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:33 PM To: kate@katebennett.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday In a message dated 11/8/2002 6:37:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: major thanks to yael who really helped jeff &i in so many ways...i haven't heard the tape yet but here is the set list: Kate, I don't know if I'm grateful for the setlist, or if it's driving me crazy that I didn't hear it! Anyway, thanks for posting it - what an incredible list. Don't know all the performers but if they're of your caliber than it was a helluva night I'm sure! If there's any way to sneak me a copy that I can listen to I would be your best friend forever! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:29:49 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: steely dan njc I remember when i was just getting into music when I was 13 or so, and my friend was raving about Jimi Hendrix. Well, i thought he was white and when i found out the truth i was shocked and extremely embarrassed. STeely Dan, I don't think I get, but love for their quirkiness etc... Frank Zappa called them, "DOWNER SURREALISM". Blair >From: "mack watson-bush" >Reply-To: "mack watson-bush" >To: "JMDL" >Subject: steely dan njc >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:13:22 -0600 > >Mark wrote: > > I have never really 'gotten' Steely Dan. > >I don't think I did, or have, either Mark. At least not to the extent of >being a big, big fan of theirs. I remember in the 70's that they were very >big on the radio and I liked the tunes though not enough to buy them, and >never did, then. A couple of years ago, trying to fulfill one of those >membership agreements, I purchased the cd 'A Decade of Steely Dan.' After >listening to it quite a bit over the months past I have now an appreciation >for them that I did not have before. I still don't know if I really "get" >them but I sure do like them. The hit tunes still have about the same >effect on me as they did but there are a couple of other tunes on this cd >that far outshine them, in my opinion. 'Babylon Sisters' is superb and my >favorite that I can play over and over again, and still not get too much of >is 'Bad Sneakers.' Blair asked on another unrelated post about our vision >of performers that we had not seen. I was convinced these guys were black >until I found out better. Now, I wonder how I could have thought that. > > > >mack _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:38:43 -0600 From: Rob Procyk & Tracy Tolley Subject: Travelogue question (again) now njc Jimmy Nimmy Mo Mimmy wrote: > Someone pleeeeeease??? > Marcel? IVPaul? Nuriel/Ada? Marsha Doyle????? Someone???? > > LOLOL, oh Jimmy, this is the first digest I've looked at in ages, and I see this -- hehehehehe, ah, memories..... misty water-colored memories.... Don't go a' changin', Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:50:59 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again) > You're right Jimmy, it won't be eligible for a Grammy until 2004. I don't > know if that's true, but at least now you have a resonse! :~) I think if the proper paperwork was already filled out and sent to NARAS in advance then it may indeed be eligible for the coming grammy awards. But I don't know if that is the case or when the deadline is. Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 0:2:57 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday > Yes! And bring Victor along with you ;-) > > Kakki Hey, next year sounds like a great time to venture out to California. Thanks the reports! Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:21:08 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Travelogue - Joni doesn't need instruction (imo) > Wish you all could have seen her...Joni was so excited in Toronto last year when she shared the samplings/demos. It was wonderful to be there, to witness her exuberance. Let's take it easy on her and perhaps take a more gentle approach to this new body of work...and be thankful that it's here at all. I couldn't agree with you more, Mags. One of the dangers of being on this list as I have discovered with the releases of 'Hits', 'Misses', 'Taming the Tiger', 'Both Sides Now' and now 'Travelogue' is that you hear so much about the new cd before it is actually released that some of the joy of discovery is taken out of it for you. Somebody always gets ahold of advance copies and being the curious beasts, hungry for anything new from Joni that we are, we of course want to know about it. And now we have access to these tracks on the web. So some people seem to have their minds made up before the record is even out and of course they have every right to express their opinions and of course most of us will read what they have to say. And some of us will wish we hadn't. Blair wrote: I doubt Joni wanted this record to be the next best thing to Debussy, or Glass, or Edgar Varese, but to be only but true to what she wants it to be. Well said, Blair. I don't think Joni envisions 'Travelogue' as a great new compositional piece to be added to the catalogue of the world's great classical music. Not by any stretch of the imagination. And Christopher wrote: I DON'T THINK JONI WAS NECESSARILY TRYING TO MAKE ANY SORT OF 'NEW STATEMENT' BY RECORDING TRAVELOGUE. And again I think you're right on, Christopher! I don't think Joni was trying to record a great, new, innovative classical or jazz or folk or anything else album. My opinion is that mostly what she wanted was a setting in which to exercise her chops as an interpretive singer. In this case, to interpret (or re-interpret) her own work. She said in some interview that as her songs got wordier, her focus as a singer was to get all the words out and that she didn't have much room to play around with bending notes or letting her voice 'float' as I believe she put it. I also think that she views 'Travelogue' as a chance to flesh out musical ideas that she may not have been able to give full voice to when she first recorded the songs or that occurred to her some time after the first recordings. And I'm sure as she went through her catalogue to choose the material for 'Travelogue', she started to hear new things in her head when she re-visited some of her songs. I wonder how much input she had with Mendoza on the arrangements? We know that in the past she has instructed musicians by humming or singing or giving visual descriptions of what she wanted them to play. Finally, as I said before, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I really have very little patience with comments about what Joni did wrong or what she should have done or done differently. It's Joni's record. Maybe she'll call you up and have you help her out the next time she records if she really wants to know what she should or should not do. My advice is don't hold your breath waiting for the phone to ring. Joni knows what she wants her music to sound like, she knows who to hire to get it and she knows how to get it out of them. Sure you can say you don't like it and you can say why. But that's your take on it, not Joni's. It's her vision. It's her record. I'm sure she sometimes listens to one of her albums or songs at a later date and thinks 'Gosh, I could have done this here! Why didn't I think of that then?' But in the long run, I doubt that she has many regrets about her body of work or feels that she made horrible mistakes in creating it. And if as long as Joni's satisfied that it's what she wanted, I'm satisfied. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:24:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: steely dan njc omg...that song... back in the day... after some of that green stuff?...wowsers mack "there are a couple of other tunes on this cd that far outshine them, in my opinion. 'Babylon Sisters' is superb and my favorite that I can play over and over again" ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:24:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Some Up and Coming Joni Fans? lindsay, wow...yes, more than just a glimmer...keep playing that album for them...very very sweet! stas is my new favoritest album these days... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:24:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Oil/war (njc) (pc) jumping in to this discussion midway... i believe about 2/3 of usa oil comes from the middle east...(not checking sources here just off the top of my sorry memory banks) as to the motivations of mega rich men...well when you do not have to think about accumulating wealth you are motivated by other things...it is not about personal greed but it can be about personal power which is a big motivator &/or wanting to leave a legacy for the family name...this is what motivates many people in their later years, & what they leave as their legacy depends on their ideology... i'd say reading biographys (plural) is a very good suggestion as to understanding the motivations of gwb & cheney cuz a leopard doesn't change his spots... anne > meantime, the general population wasn't getting the > benefit of the wealth. Yet, culturally, it's taboo to > fault one's own people, one's own "tribe." So, who do > you blame? Those who caused this schism, the outsiders.<<< yes & it seems to me that same logic seems to apply to many in this country as well...attrocities have been commited by our country & other countries ad nasueum...when do we call a hault to this kind of blaiming & finger pointing & war mongering & start working on real solutions...starting with having some basic understanding of other cultures would be a nice start... kakki >>the excitement of warrior-hood as a release for their anger and coats it with a religious pretense so that they feel somehow they are being called to a higher purpose.<<< the above statement can apply to many people who sign up for a military service... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:49:38 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) Kate, > i believe about 2/3 of usa oil comes from the middle east...(not checking > sources here just off the top of my sorry memory banks) Two people on the list who detest Bush and are anti-war were the first ones who told me that we only got 10% from the entire mid-east. I subsequently read up on it and the official sources said it was around 20-25% with 10% of that from Iraq in exchange for humanitarian services. We got out of our dependency decades ago after repeated moves from the Arab OPEC members to hold us hostage to the oil. Remember the oil crises in the 70s? > as to the motivations of mega rich men...well when you do not have to think > about accumulating wealth you are motivated by other things...it is not > about personal greed but it can be about personal power which is a big > motivator &/or wanting to leave a legacy for the family name...this is what > motivates many people in their later years, & what they leave as their > legacy depends on their ideology... Well, yeah, but both Bushes and Cheney are putting themselves on the line as the number one targets to be taken out and obviously know that the biggest bullseye is on their heads and the heads of their families, right? I don't think they want to risk personal suicide for a legacy. Bushes were born rich and their wealth goes back generations. Cheney made most of his money only the last few years after he retired from public service and went to work for Halliburton. The single most reason he made so much money is that Common Cause and other organizations insisted he sell off all his Halliburton stock before he ran for Vice President. He was forced to do that and the timing of it just happened to be when the stock was high and before it crashed. > yes & it seems to me that same logic seems to apply to many in this country > as well...attrocities have been commited by our country & other countries ad > nasueum...when do we call a hault to this kind of blaiming & finger pointing > & war mongering & start working on real solutions...starting with having > some basic understanding of other cultures would be a nice start... That's fine but haven't we tried to do this for years in the mid east? We have our own problems in our country that preoccupy us - and are only human in that we can only do so much. We don't have all the magic answers for solving all the rest of the world's problems. I think you underestimate the ability of Americans to be enlightened and compassionate. It breaks my heart completely and leaves me mostly speechless that you and many others on the list seem to truly believe that anyone with a different idealogy in your own country is less than human and all to blame for any problems not only in the coutnry but in the world. I just can't get over it. I always thought we were all one people in the end, but what I read here tells me that maybe that was never true. I don't know what to do about it other than to hope it changes some day. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:57:02 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: Re: NJC - What do Bush and Madonna have in common? Hey Franklin here, First off, thanks Bob for turning me on to Rachael Z. Wow. Beautiful spoken poetry interpreted musically. A wonderful instrument singing a song! What a treat! What a trio! As for what G. Dub and Madonna have in common? They both sold their souls in a cheap market. They are both one or two (take your pick) dimensional, cheezy, sleazy caricatures of real human beings. They both took the road of self-serving greed - at any cost to any one. Madonna compared to Joni Mitchell, in any way, shape or form? It would be a hilarious joke if it wasn't so blasphemous. Madonna has whored her body, her mind, her spirit - all in the name of self-aggrandizement, celebrity and vast wealth. Along that perverse path she has sullied the souls of countless (millions) of impressionable, naive, gullible, ignorant, trusting teenage girls, whose developing minds, emotions and tastes have been irrevocably damaged, subconsciously or otherwise by her coarse and crude antics. What a wretched legacy indeed. Was/is it all worth it Madonna? How corrupt. How shameful. And that filthy "coffee-table" book? (Haven't seen it, no interest WHATSOEVER) What was that soul-flaunting garbage all about? She is truly the Michael Jackson of female "entertainers". It is bizarre what lengths some people will go to in defiling their souls for attention, "acclaim", money. Then theres Bush 43. Does anybody in their right mind really think he is running this country? Someone remarked that with their (Bush and Cheney) "vast wealth" they don't need to provoke any conflicts for the sake of personal gain. I've got news for you: they have no choice, and they know it. Puppets both. They can't even take a dump without permission from their "handlers". Yes, I'm afraid Oliver Stone in his brilliant work "JFK" hit the nail on the head. The assassination of Kennedy (spoiled, reckless, self-indulging fool that he was) marked a watershed regarding the political landscape of this nation. We slid, or were rather adeptly guided, into a unique, subtly instigated plutocracy, run by the shadow fascist, despotic, Industrialist Billionaire's club. Both of the Bushs and Cheney are nothing more than waterboys for this secret roundtable of renegade taskmasters. Certainly, they have been well-rewarded, but they are mere millionaire plebeians compared to the individuals who are really in charge (and have been for decades). They are in so deep that they have no alternative but to do EXACTLY what they are told. Plane crashes happen. Heart attacks happen. Assassinations happen. Then there's the family members to worry about. The Shadow government will run over, murder, destroy anyone who gets in their way - particularly "traitors". This goes far, far, far, deeper than most muddling, struggling Americans could ever even begin to fathom. May God help us and have mercy on our souls. It is about oil (twenty percent of the world's reserves are in Iraq, and he's the easiest nut to crack - simply because he is such a wacky character himself). It is about natural gas: (Uzbekistan has the largest known gas reserves in the world, and it HAS to be piped through Afghanistan in order to be easily transported). It is about terrifying the American public into a frenzy - all the easier to manipulate, coerce and control them. So what does all this have to do with G.Dub and Madonna? They are both frauds; lacking decency, honesty, dignity or integrity. I pity them and the self-induced spiritual slavery they have brought upon themselves. They have both all too convincingly proven that when one exploits, denigrates, destroys themselves, it is NEVER a solitary action - particularly where public display and exposure are involved. This type of "self" exploitation, effects the entire country - hell, what am I saying... the world. We have a world being influenced by deadly cartoon characters (they are simply two of them): characters that literally have stepped out of the pages of some of the most fiendish comic books ever written - because the cartoon characters are (gulp) real. Bush, a true leader? Madonna, a bona fide artist? Get a grip! They are both just sorry, sold-out puppets, playing (and losing at) the highest stakes game ever conceived, and the wager involves their very souls. These thoughts are not meant as a personal attack against any individual on this list; their personal comments, views or tastes. In fact, I have a fond affinity for everyone I've "met" here so far, and care about all of you - your security, happiness, well-being. These thoughts are merely my own perceptions of what my mind and spirit deduce regarding the cultural and political cesspool that is choking this country to death. What we need is more "spiritual" environmentalism. Nothing is going to change, except perhaps you and I. It has all simply gone way, way too far to stop. Nonetheless, we need more thinkers, risk takers, defenders of love, truth and everything else that goes into real art. For who can evoke any significant change if not the artists and poets? In short we need more Joni's - not phoneys. Blessings to all - Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:58:09 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Travelogue or Travelogue Thanksgiving in Tennesee! So good the album comes out before we go. The boys are already fighting over who is going to sit where who is going to listen to what or watch what. I was able to be the music dictator when they were young and thought dad's music was still cool. We all agreed to burn two CD's each for the trip. Ah a 160 minutes of Dad music; joni, toad the wet (back together), neil or crowded, Peter the great up, Diana crawl towards me, etc. And 160 minutes of punk and 160 minutes of classic alternative scary chic music and 160 minutes of glam country (if I hear a dixie landsliding chick one more time). I was so looking forward what might be the last road trip together that I actually compromised. Now if I can just figure out away to sleep while the others drive and listen. the joni files have been great to listen too. I had another favorite singer songwriter who died a few years back. " we don't know what we got till it's gone". I would give anything if Rich would have made an album like this. I don't critique to much, different song make different moods. I remember hearing Both Sides Now before it was released on Jody Denberg's show on KGSR in Austin (he did a great job on her birthday too) the Sunday night before it was released I remember sitting in my car in the drive way when the song came on. He had dedicated the song to Wally before playing it. The emotion, I had not wept like that in years. Somewhere on this album each song will find the right place at the right time and each moment will be serendipitous. One of my favorite glovearms is "Just Ice" she tells stories before songs that fill in the framework of the picture. How she tuned the guitar to ocean sounds for one and her arguement with her mother for another. Basically the rest of the story. Travelogue will be good. It will hit just when I will need it.... Peace, Craig PS: Sanity with three teenage boys in a SUV for 16 hours now that is corned beef re hash. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:17:24 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Re: S. Dan Music NJC I never said that "I hated it" because I don't hate it, I just said(exact words) its just "not for me". I've been known to change my mind on occasion, all you can do is wait and see. Will >From: "Humble tiger" >To: joni@smoe.org >CC: willchavez@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: S. Dan Music NJC >Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:30:37 -0500 > >Now now, let's not generalize, I'm taking this as a huge insult! I HATE >Allen Parsons type stuff, geez you guys are harsh! > >Erica > > > >Hey 19 - Steely Dan (lechery and substance abuse - somebody's idea of a >good >time) >Gaucho - Steely Dan [what's it all about, Stee-ly? (and why should we >care?)] > >Mark, I'm with you here. Other than "Deacon Blues" I just never saw what >all the commotion was about. I find the people who like this music also are >into Allen Parsons type stuff. Not for me. >Will > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:42:42 -0500 From: vince Subject: njc 8 Mile Saw the movie twice tonight, yes twice, it is an incredibly fine film, very much of a LA Confidential feel about it - not surprising with not only Kim Basinger but made b y the same people - and it is very real to Detroit, very real to urban life, and the script is very well crafted, there a lot of very interesting touches in that film making that were quality, and that Em kid can act - his vulnerability and his holding back in some scenes was very gutsy. If I told you that Em makes a strong stand against violence against women, a strong stand against homophobia, would you believe me? If I told you that the scenes with his little sister are extremely touching (and very connected to his real life love for his daughter), would you believe me? If I told you that both shows I went to were sold out, and I had to go out of town because all the local shows were sold out, and if you want to have some clues where the kids are at today, would you go see it if I told you this is an excellent film - best one this year other than Y Tu Mama Tambien, which 8 Mile approaches in its utter honesty? If I told you that the message of the movie, loud and clear, is to work hard, work harder, for what you want to accomplish in life, would you believe me? No, I guess no one will, except maybe Bob Muller and Jerry. So you guys, go see it! Everyone else, well, you are missing one hell of a good film. vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:52:31 -0500 From: vince Subject: can I say, Joni vs Em? Since there have been people who have suggested that some of us are "trashing" this cd by what we have heard on the sound clips - do, not trashing. Less than overwhelmed, at least I am. And I would never think that even Joni blowing her nose was worthwhile - hell, no one is that damned good - Driving home from 8 Mile, I was thinking about how Detroit and the connections between Joni and Eminem, one who developed her talent in Detroit and one who developed his talent in Detroit and what the difference is between the music that I heard today, Joni's and Em's, and I got to be thinking that Joni needs to spend a little more time in Detroit. I think she is too used to her clean white linens and needs to spend a little more time scrambling down in the street - and that others will differ with me, that is way cool because the value of this community is the 800+ insights, not any one person's opinion. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:05:13 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #468 - pots and kettles NJC I think what bothers me about some liberals is how they try to put all conservatives in the same box. > Huh? I think that's the pot calling the kettle black.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:20:04 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: those songs you really just HATE (njc) short Gees, Mark. I'm afraid you'll have to score me in Muller's "Me too" column. It works for me, especially now that I'm over 25 myself......... (<4 weeks for 47 years of age. Scary!) Lama Muller said, LOL! I was gonna respond "Lechery AND substance abuse...what's not to like? " mark.travis@gte.net writes: > Bob Muller would be disappointed if I didn't get on here &slag > Steely Dan every once in awhile. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:21:44 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Hard Days Great Nights (NJC) Hi All I am 400+ messages behind but I am still here. It was a shit day (even though very beautiful weather wise much too nice to be working) esp. with my car breaking down. But me the "klutz from hell" fixed it myself and was back on the road to get home to a beautiful night of music. It started with the screening ( so to speak) of Travelogue (with cocktails but I THINK I digress) and then jamming with Christina and Jack on cover tunes and original jams that were SO much FUN. With brief reports from "Rolling Stones" central provided courtesy of my boy Julius on the Far West. WOW! Should humans be allowed to have SO much fun?? Christina has hooked up with some great songwriters (names I started to post and then thought better of it so she can have the honor of revealing just WHO) and Jack's CD is finally MIXED. Mastering starts next week and CD release is scheduled for the second Thursday in December. There will also be a mini JoniFest and a Pazfest CD release party in conjunction with this stellar event. More details forthcoming. I did not want to announce till next week but thought better of it after tonight. I hope some of you can come and be a part of this wild weekend. Have a great weekend all and hope to catch up next week (esp the thread of songs---I gotta million of em). It's ALL good! Love Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:30:06 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: (NJC)Dr. Zachary Smith's death Sad news for me as well as I remember growing up (well taller anyways) in Honduras and hearing that program ins spanish ( Doctor esmit Doctor esmit!!!) Paz on 11/5/02 7:37 AM, FMYFL@aol.com at FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > I was so sad to hear about the passing of Jonathan Harris who played Dr. > Smith on "Lost in Space". It was one of my favorite shows as a kid. > > I though Joni would have made a good Judy Robinson in the show, just singing > all day to that hottie Major Don West. She could have sung the theme song to > the show. > > "Lost in Space > The hero cannot make the change > Lost in Space > The shrew will not be tamed...... > > You get the idea :~) > > Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:32:56 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC - those songs you really just love NO stems no seeds that you don't need...... ( a free copy of PazFest to the first person who guesses the source of that quote courtesy of a very generous benefactor of the Ruth Paz Foundation) {More to come cause he is really generous!} on 11/5/02 9:24 AM, Victor Johnson at waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: >> I know it sounds anal as hell, but Sam Cooke is legend enough that you > should spell his last name correctly (call it Joan Bias syndrome) > Obviously, to maintain my sanity in this world I have to let many > misspellings go, but Sam Cooke is not one I can let go. Sorry, it's not > you, it's me. >> > > It's refreshing to see such friendly and nice posts correcting spelling > errors...unlike those we used to get from someone who will remain nameless. > > Victor, back in Asheville after spending a long overdue week in Atlanta. > > ps. The leaves are magnificant! > > > > > > > > --- Victor Johnson > --- waytoblu@mindspring.com > "Roses wait for the springtime, > They sleep beneath the ground. > They hear March winds a callin' > For the sun to come around."vlj > > Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #473 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)