From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #472 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 472 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- ashara njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Travelogue - First Impression [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Kate's tribute ["J. G." ] Re: Corned Beef? C'mon Kids! [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #470 - NJC Recent Judy Collins [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #469 - Letterman & Amelia [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only ["Kate Bennett" ] Premature Ejaculations ["jeff t." ] Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) ["Ronald M. St. Marie" ] [none] [Franklin Shea ] Re: N/A ["Lori Fye" ] Travelogue question (again) [FMYFL@aol.com] Smiling in Cyberspace [Merk54@aol.com] Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Corned Beef Re-hash ["Kate Bennett" ] The Great Madonna Debate(njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only [colin ] Re: Premature Ejaculations [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Franklin says "Hi!" NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only ["Victor Johnson"] Re: Travelogue question (again) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday ["kakki" ] steely dan njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Some Up and Coming Joni Fans? [Lindsay Moon ] Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) ["kakki" ] Re: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) ["mack watson-bush" Subject: ashara njc amen! healing light to you ashara! >>Dear God, Shine your holy light on Ashara's tail! (Boy does that sound strange!) :~) Bob<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:43:15 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue - First Impression In a message dated 11/8/2002 2:31:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, Merk54 writes: > My first impressions were mostly favorable. Of the songs I listened to, You Dream Flat Tires was the biggest surprise. > Joni has really transformed this song into a little gem. Flat Tires is FAR AND AWAY my fave in this collection, Jack. I didn't know what the song was going to be at first, especially with the pacing...and when she starts "It came to pass..." I just lit up! The jazz tempo for this one is superb, and the HIGHLIGHT is the Billy Preston organ! At least I assume this is Billy, I had read where he was a part of the project. And not that any of us needed confirmation, but the song works quite well without Lionel Ritchie too! ;~) Unfortunately, I don't hear Preston anywhere else on this CD, and his keyboards on Flat Tires are such a breath of fresh air!! Bob NP: The Band, "Rags & Bones" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:43:41 -0800 From: "J. G." Subject: Re: Kate's tribute Just wondering if any listers had some reports about Kate's tribute. It was last night, correct? I wish I hadn't have been working. An old friend is a musician in SB - it would have been a great excuse to see her and catch some really cool music... - -Jerome _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:46:04 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Corned Beef? C'mon Kids! In a message dated 11/8/2002 1:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, ctreacy1889@earthlink.net writes: > That said, I just want to make clear that I DON'T THINK JONI WAS > NECESSARILY TRYING TO MAKE ANY SORT > OF 'NEW STATEMENT' BY RECORDING TRAVELOGUE. Moreover, I think she merely > was looking to put a new spin > on some of the older material she feels 'still holds up'. 'New Spin' and > 'New Statement' are 2 different things > Thanks for saying this Christopher!!! I've been reading today's email, and can't believe some of the things that have been said. I *LOVE* all of the songs I've heard from Travelogue. We all knew there weren't going to be any new Joni songs, where we could dissect some powerful lyrics. It's the same songs which most of us have loved for years, yet put to orchestration. Like you said, it would be nice for the CD to actually be released before people start trashing it. Of course...........this is just my opinion. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:22:31 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #470 - NJC Recent Judy Collins > Vince asked about our most recent musical acquisitions...in regards to purchases, Funny you should bring this up, Bob, because I wanted to ask about one of my recent cd purchases. I picked up a Judy Collins cd at Best Buy for the ridiculously low price of $5.99 >>called 'Classic Folk'. Does anybody know anything about this cd? The vocals are beautiful but > >>the production sounds a bit like a Hallmark Christmas compilation. But for that price and that voice, I certainly don't have any regrets about buying it. > > >It is the Canadian repackaging of Both Sides Now in which she re->recorded some of her favorite songs. A steal at 5.99. As a big, long time fan I would have to agree that her recent albums and live concerts do have that Hallmark look and feel to them. A long way from hearing her anger of the 60's and 70's. Judy's Both Sides Now ("classic folk") album (from five or six years ago, I think) was followed by a CD called Classic Broadway. Both were on a small label which I think has disappeared since but both still show up here and there and were repackaged together, I believe, as a CD called "Send in the Clowns," which is usually available on amazon.com. In any case, yes, Judy has done more then enough compilations and re-hashes. Amazing Grace has been recorded at least six times. But I have to disagree that Judy is experiencing "fading popularity." While she's no popular figure now, her profile has gone up dramatically in the past five years, with TV and radio appearances, a PBS special, well-attended tours and the Wildflowers concerts. Now that she has her own record label, the awkward period of being bounced from one label to the next is, hopefully, over. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:35:25 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #469 - Letterman & Amelia > Cyndi Lauper also usually gets quite of bit of face > time in the chair afterwards, too. I do think, though, > that musicians in general get shafted on Letterman > because of their last in line placing. Anything the > runs overtime during the other segments takes its extra > directly from the musician. I doubt its Dave's fault, > though. I hope Joni hasn't shot herself in the foot again. I'll bet she's mad about her BSN appearance on the show, which was stuck at the end (probably because they had to clear everything else out for her orchestra) and followed an interview with a somebody-or-other actor. They tried to squeeze too much into that show. I hope Dave forgives her and invites her to do a show. I've only heard Amelia so far from the new set -- sounded lovely and well-orchestrated to me (and very well sung). But I'll admit I am not too musically sophisticated (never listen to classical music), Joni, jazz and Philip Glass are as high-brow as I get. But let's remember: this is a POP album and should be evaluated in that context. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:45:45 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only holy shite...this is cold & cruel...what about parents who have kids & the funds to raise them but do so irresponsibly (abuse, neglect, or just plain rotten values)? and don't get me started on those who have no understanding of why some individuals are on welfare or how the system works, yet are critical towards those who are on welfare (mostly women & children) which is a smaller portion of the pie than goes to corporate welfare... willy wrote >Still, I agree that all pets should be altered, as should a large portion of our human population. Anybody on welfare who doesn't know how to put on a condom or has gotten pregnant more than once is a good candidate. As far as abortion goes, you can make the mistake of getting pregnant once and get it aborted (if you must). Make the mistake twice and that person needs to get SNIPPED.< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:53:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Fw: njc choice and cooperation will lose kasey, its really hard to read your posts because you don't use quotations for the post that you are replying to...it looks like you are writing the whole thing... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:54:16 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) Erica and all, I have had similar discussions/arguments with my friends. My friend Bob (who is a huge Janet Jackson fan) said that he had never heard of Joni Mitchell until Big yellow Taxi was sampled for "got til it's gone". And didn't listen to any Joni mItchell until he met me. He and our friend Doug, tease me constantly, saying that I only like 'obscure' music and that i am an utter music snob. They both know that I like Joni, Leonard Cohen, DYlan, Frank Zappa, and so on, and think that is what constitutes as "obscure". They even went so far as to say that I was not open minded about music and that it probably kept me from listening to good quality music. Now, about Madonna, my friend Doug is a big fan, but even he realizes Madonna's weaknesses. HE believes that she is an influence in the sense of how she sells her product, and how she markets herself and how she asserts her opinion openly and carefree and that those things left somewhat of an impact on other artists. Doug, likes JOni mitchell alot, but not as much as I and he has mentioned that she is a large influence, but he even quips now and then that she isn't the best thing to come along since slice bread. To me, it seems people prejudge an artist on the basis if they aren't known or arent on the radio all the time, "Well, I have never heard any JOni MItchell songs on the radio.." "I don't see any Joni MITchell videos on MTV.." etc.. Ofcourse these are comments made in naievety and ignorance. It is as if in some people's minds that being on MTV and visual is the scale to which you rate an artist. Maybe this is a paradox for those in my generation.. (anyone born shortly before or after 1980 ) that if they havent seen them on tv.. then they really don't matter. Ofcourse, NOT everyone has these views.. My feelings about Madonna, I respect her for doing what she wants to do, she has made great music, she changes with the times, sometimes, and alot of the times, CHANGING the times, but if what she had done supposedly marks the standard for being an influence then those people are completely off. You might want to remind your friend that we are talking about Musically here and maybe not visually. Ask him, what has madonna done musically bar any videos, movies, events, concerts, etc that makes her a great influence. Blair NP: JImmy Mack-Laura Nyro and Labelle > >What makes Madonna more or less influencial that Joni? > > >Erica > _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:54:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only Before there is any confusion, let's be aware that William Chavez is not "Willy the Shake." > willy wrote >Still, I agree that all pets should be altered, Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:52:40 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: re: nonesuch I notice that on the Nonesuch website they say that Joni is considering doing some selected dates to support the release of Travelogue. Anyone out ther know any more about this? Regards, Joe. NP: Moon At The Window Rachel Z ( really like her take on Joni's stuff) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:45:22 -0800 From: "jeff t." Subject: Premature Ejaculations False Alarm? Corned Beef Rehash? Orc-castration? What happened while I was gone? Call me crusty, but I don't think her intention was to pen a new Rhapsody in Blue. Or revisit In the Hall of the Mountain King. Or even tell new Tales of the Piney Woods. Nor does she, I believe, have her sights set on being the next premier song stylist in the jazz arena. And certainly she ain't gunnin' for the next Tommy award. Not with Travelogue. Probably not ever. She pays a high price for her dilettantism, time after time. Funny (to me, your own eyes may glaze), but once again I was fooled. Having always loved the purr of Otis & Marlena ..."sl e e e a zing by the s e e a"... I couldn't help but be thrown by the sheer pluck of this revisit. Both literally and figuratively. That was the first listen. Now, older and wiser after 36 hours and several Expectationless listens, well, go head and finish my thought. Happens to me so often you'd think I'd be accustomed to... The pluck is what I now cannot get out of my head. Spinning out on her turns, for me, has always come farther down the road. And so it goes, as I've played The Dawntreader, Flat Tires, and the nine others I've heard thus far. I shudder to think how fine these will sound through my home speakers. Reference the subject line should analogies fail you. Who knows? Maybe I'll grow weary after a month or so. And maybe Kakki will vote Democrat-ic, Bob will utter an unkind word, and Colin will manufacture overseas. Stranger things have happened. jeff _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:51:13 -0800 From: "Ronald M. St. Marie" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) >From deepest darkest lurk mode, I thought I would weigh in on the Madonna string, which is a fat pitch if I ever saw one. The difference between the influence of musical/poetic genius (JM) and commercial genius (Madonna) should not be hard to see. Very few can match JM's brilliance (in my mind) in crafting and executing a song, both melodically and lyrically. I favor the pre-Mingus period, particularly the Hejira/HOSL/DJRD trilogy where at least 75% of the songs are like a diamonds embedded in my psyche -- brilliant, multifaceted, begging to be explored in greater detail. Those that aspire to great lyrics and songs (as opposed to extraordinary sales) would have to be inspired by JM. I also think that for many men, the whole Joni package is a little fey and intimidating. They can' t get past the singing style and don't want to think about the deeper meaning of life. This ain't Black Sabbath. By contrast, I cannot think of a single work composed and performed by Madonna that would merit that kind of description. She is brilliant in adopting other's styles through more than 2 decades. She has consistently presenting a commercially palatable product. She has engaged/enraged/engorged us with her sexuality. Most guys can understand *that* Madonna. But you don't admire her for her writing or composing. She can't play a lick on any instrument as far as I know. You admire her because she has recreated herself over and over again. JM's critique of current artists referenced in other emails is right on point, Its like a lot of art: compare a Margaret Keane to a Van Gogh? Your buddy Josh likes those paintings of the big-eyed kids, but either hasn't seen a VG or has and doesn't understand why Vinnie cut his ear off and used so many swirls. Compare "Die Hard" to "A Clockwork Orange"? If he has seen both, Josh may think are great action flicks, but can't understand why the bad guy wasn't disposed of in Kubrick's flick. Die Hard was much more satisfying. Compare "Like a Virgin" with "Shades of Scarlett Conquering"? "Holiday" to "Edith and the King Pin"? Come-on! Don't even go there! Sure, most people will simply not have heard of "the good stuff." It isn't on MTV or on Hallmark cards or on TBS. But at least you know; concider yourself lucky. And maybe Josh, if he is lucky, will discover JM or some new artist out there who can affect him as JM has many of us. But I wouldn't bet on it. Elitist? Damn Right! Then again, just my opinion. Ron in rainy sunny El Lay. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humble tiger" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) > What makes Madonna more or less influencial that Joni? > > I've been having this debate with my good friend Josh for weeks now, I keep > asking him to define "influence", sure if cone shaped bras and a gap between > your front teeth are what you mean (although Dave Letterman wins that > contest) maybe madonna wins, but I just can't get him to see that Ms. > Mitchell has had more influence in the music industry. I told him Madonna's > favorite album in high school was C&S, he didn't care, he keeps saying he'd > never even heard of Joni before he met me, I told him he has bad taste in > music (just kidding). Anyway, I was wondering is if everyone would add some > fuel to this fire, I would appreciate any and all ideas concerning this > debate. I guess I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Madonna, for > me shape shifting, sexual power and shock value don't cut it. > > Erica > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:11:26 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: [none] Hi, Franklin here - my first post. What a cast of characters!! Had to jump in after reading a couple of the group *e*s. What can one say about G.Dub. He's the first "vice president" we've ever had in the oval office. "President" Cheney is too busy hiding from all of his past enemies. Unfortunately, he must be at the top of every third world terrorist hit-list in the world. I guess they figure if you cut the head off, then the body will die. "The love of money is the root of all evil." Man, these oil barons just can't get enough. Of course they NEED it to drive all of their other industrial complex holdings (ie: military, power company, manufacturing). Looks like the Bush gang is going to put on their bandanas and hijack and rob the Iraqi stage coach full of gold (I mean oil). Of course Saddamm is riding shotgun (literally, with that ol' double barrell you always see him indiscriminately firing into his crowds of "admirers". This has got to be a first: "to hell with the stage coach, let's just hijack and rob the entire desert." They're already carving it up. Don't believe me? See - http://www.free-market.net/rd/226305840.html If they only listened to their own advice - "If you're going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein, you have to go to Baghdad. Once you' ve got to Baghdad, it's not clear what you do with it. It's not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that's currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime, or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts towards the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it's set up by the United States military when it's there? How long does the US military have to stay to protect the people who sign on for that government, and what happens to them once we leave?" Vice-President Dick Cheney, New York Times 13 April 1991 I couldn't agree more with your statement regarding Joni's lyrics, Will. "I think this is why we all like Joni. She has a quality in her writing that makes you understand what she is saying by merely reading it. Few are this descriptive and visual in writing. (Then she puts on the vocals and music and WOW!)" Will There is only one artist I've ever heard who actually does it (if I may dare say - better.) He is a true Prosodist (one who combines the words and thoughts of pure poetry with melodies). His name is L.A. Cowboy. Are you familiar with his work? I wonder if Joni knows him.?? He is a top-shelf philosopher, artist,songwriter. Quite obscure evidently, but I keep hearing more and more about him hear and there in various music chats and posts. I checked out a recommended web site http://www.mp3.com/lacowboy, and sure enough, if you hit the "view track info" of each song, it brings up the lyrics and damned if they aren't all stand-alone poems - really inspiring ones. (I really don't know anyone else who does that besides Joni). I love the way he melodically orchestrates each song I heard also. Very versatile. He has eight CDs. I found all the poetic stories (read:lyrics, I hate that term) at his "official" web site, http:www.lacowboy.com I just clicked on the pictures of each CD and every song poem is there (unfortunately, no music). I found it to be a fascinating body of work. Let me know what you think. I e-mailed him from "contact" at mp3. His label manager e'd me back and told me that Joni Mitchell is one of his biggest early influences (surprise, surprise). I told her to check out Joni's wonderful site, and recommended to her that L.A. join so he can get his music profile listed there. She e'd me back, thanking me and saying she was checking it out. Well, I've babbled enough for one fan's introduction to this cool digest. Hope to get to know some of you better as time flies by. Regards, Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:13:41 -0600 From: Franklin Shea Subject: [none] P.S. Sorry I forgot to write NJM in the subject line. I'm new at this. Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:22:23 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: N/A > Hope to get to know some of you better as time flies by. Hey Franklin! Nice to have you here! Your first post sure packed a punch! (I loved every word.) By the way, regarding "NJM", it's "NJC" (no Joni content), although you DID have some Joni content, so don't worry too much about it. Welcome aboard! Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:26:33 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Travelogue question (again) Yesterday I posted : <> So far, no replies. Not even private ones. Jiminy Crickets, doestn't anyone know the cutoff date for Grammy nominations??? Someone pleeeeeease??? Marcel? IVPaul? Nuriel/Ada? Marsha Doyle????? Someone???? Jimmy (not a Bob) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:42:48 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Smiling in Cyberspace In a message dated 11/7/2002 2:50:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, FredNow writes: > You know, I may as well put a stop to this here and now; I guess in > cyberspace no one can see you smile. It's a joke, I'm just > funnin' ya ... Fred, I had a pretty good laugh over this. I attempted a similar joke back in the very early days of the JMDL, involving a story about me and my wife trying to purchase a pair of Joni Mitchell paintings from a local woman who ran an ad in the local paper. It was a very long and harrowing story, where, when me and Ami finally arrived at the woman's house to buy the paintings, they were done by a John Mitchell, not Joni. The punch line was that "I told Amelia, it was just a false alarm". Of course the whole story was made up. For some reason, it just struck me as funny thing to do, and I was certain that once everyone else got to the punch line, they would know the whole thing was a joke. Instead, most of the people believed the story completely, and sent me and my wife (whose actual name is Betty!) all sorts of condolences, and warm wishes - admiring my ability to keep a sense of humor under such awful circumstances. Of course, I felt terrible, and immediately told everyone that it was a joke. Unfortunately, there were several people who found no humor in it what-so-ever. I got the nickname of the Jestering Jack-a-lope as a result of this episode. Ever since, I've been a little cautious about joking via email. :>) Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:49:30 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) I also think that for > many men, the whole Joni package is a little fey and intimidating. They can' > t get past the singing style and don't want to think about the deeper > meaning of life. This ain't Black Sabbath. > For what it's worth, Black Sabbath is probably one of the more deeper and musically challenging metal bands. Especially near the end of the Ozzy era, they began to develop a really interesting sound (and probably lost alot of people along the way)...but I know what you mean...there are plenty of people who have probably never listened to anything more challenging than Zeppelin or the Stones and don't even know that any female singers even exist besides Madonna. Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:11:02 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Sound files location and use UPDATE Thank you very much Moni for these links. I am listening now. i ahev heard Slouching, Circle Game, Cherokee Louise and Amelia. I am very surprised. i really like these so far and will buy Travelogue. This is perfect drak room or bed music. Nice and relaxing and the sort of stuff you can really listen to and absorb. Now when i heard BSN was coming, I wrote and said I couldn't imagine it would work as i feel Joni cannot sing now. I bought the cd anyway and ;istened twice and put it away, opinion not changed. So i was not looking forward to this Travelogue. I am so pleased to able pre hear this and hear that I was would have wrong to ignore it. Her voice is not what it was but it works on these. I think her voice works on TT and TI and NRH etc. It still doesn't work for me on BSN. Mind you these songs are not helping my mood! My poor Aysha has just had major surgery to remove an 8" stick from her stomach andJohn is away in Delhi and I feel lonely and want a cuddle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:38:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday B-O-B wrote "And kudos to you for your report! Wish I could have been there...maybe I need to find a "Sugar Mama" who will treat me to the spoiled lifestyle I so richly deserve!" yes, kakki definately deserves an award for coming all the way from LA & back through such a big rainstorm & then she's already posting about it so soon! i tell you, all you have to do is mention the name joni mitchell & the finest musicans come out of the woodwork begging to play..for free! my hardest job was finally having to say no to someone when i was worried about the length of the program...not to mention the hords of people standing outside in the rain who couldn't get in because we were full to capacity!!! seeing as we still haven't gotten the recordings of last years tribute to even the performers, don't hold you breath for this one any time soon...i'm really good at starting projects but a little lacking in the followup when so much is calling me to start something...heh heh major thanks to yael who really helped jeff & i in so many ways...i haven't heard the tape yet but here is the set list: 1 The Dawntreader-Pat Milliken 2 Urge for Going-Jeff Bisch & Jack Lee 3 Both Sides Now-Tammy Gillispie & Ron Atman 4 Chelsea Morning & Urge for Going-Donna O'Connor 5 I Think I Understand-Marcella & George Quirin * Jim Messina story about Joni 6 That Song About the Midway-Anastasia & John 7 I Don't Know Where I Stand-Bill Lanphar & Heather Stevenson 8 The Gallery-Yael Harlap 9 Conversation-Antara & Delilah w/ Heather 10 The Priest-Brad Bayley 11 Circle Game-Laura Hout 12 Big Yellow Taxi-Cinder Jean 13 Blue-Nicola Gordon 14 Carey-Kate, Jack Lee & Michael Adcock 15 California & Little Green-Joyce Heilig, Jack Lee & Michael Adcock 16 All I Want-Marcella & George Quirin 17 River-Donna O'Connor 18 For Free & A Case of You-Doug Ingoldsby & Jeff Pevar 19 For the Roses & Electricity-Pat Milliken, Anita Bayley, Brad Bayley & Barbara Mosley 20 You Turn Me On Im a Radio & Woman of Heart and Mind-Cinder Jean 21 Help Me-Marcella & George Quirin 22 Free Man in Paris-Heather Stevenson, Antara & Delilah 23 Centerpiece-Laura Hout, Marcella & George Quirin & Barbara Mosley 24 Coyote-Michael Adcock, Tom Fogel, & Peter Kornbluth 25 Dry Cleaner from Des Moines & Goodbye Pork Pie Hat-Karen Thurber 26 Cherokee Louise-Antara & Delilah 27 Night Ride Home-Kate, Jack Lee, & Michael Adcock 28 Woodstock-Kate, Jack Lee, Michael Adcock, Jeff Bisch, Doug Ingoldsby, Jeff Pevar, Anastasia & John ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:44:53 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:Amelia I've been listening to Shadows and Light a lot in my car during the last 2 days - it's always one of my favourite albums and it's great when you listen to it again after a while. I've been especially enjoying Amelia. 2 days ago I took delivery of a brand new computer system with beautiful quality speakers and right now I'm listening to the new Amelia on Nonsuch. It sounds completely wonderful and so lush on this system. The several glasses of wine are probably helping quite a bit but I'm really looking forward to hearing the album. Flat tires may be more of a challenge though but I wait to see! My best as ever, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:54:19 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Corned Beef Re-hash vince wrote "I am aching to hear new Joni material." me too...i love joni's voice (all of them) & her musicianship (guitar, piano) but what i really love the most about her is her songwriting...last night listening to so many great musicians singing her songs i was awestruck at the quality of her work...somehow this becomes amplified when i hear others perform her songs...& i really get to hear the song...to me it is her songwriting that stands out as something so very special... however, i did plug joni's new release last night... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:08:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash it is interesting, in researching things & storys to say about joni that i found her often talking about arrangements in terms of art metaphors or almost as often in terms of symphany or orchestral terms...going way back in time... also, it speaking of mediums & her new release, it appears that john lennon is truly having a great influence on joni these past few years ("put some fiddles on it")...heheh ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:11:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) "What makes Madonna more or less influencial that Joni?" wow, you mean this is even debatable? lets start with lyrics & melody, move on to subject matter, how about vocal chops?... okay, still not satisfied? let's take two early songs by these 2 women: like a virgin vs the dawntreader...? generally, joni uses her intelligence & art...madonna her sexuality & promotional skills... points for madonna- she is a pretty good dancer ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 00:29:33 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only > willy wrote >Still, I agree that all pets should be altered, oh and how would people replace pets? as for the rest of this mail, I pretty much agree with Kate and Lori. I would have been much more blunt about my reaction. They(K & L) are more restrained. The horors of Nazi Germany didn't succeed in educating us all it seems. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:32:41 -0000 From: "William" Subject: That girl is travel drained Oh no! Flat tires. "No-one ever said to Van Gogh, "Paint 'A Starry Night' again man"." Hopefully just a false alarm. WtS xxx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:53:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Premature Ejaculations In a message dated 11/8/2002 4:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, wyeth99@hotmail.com writes: > I shudder to think how fine these will sound > through my home speakers. This is one the MAIN thing that struck me as SO NICE about T...as much as I DON'T care for the synthetic sounds on CMIARS, DED & TTT, this one is pure REAL! Not a "Fairlight Oboe" to be found, just genuine oboes, and other woodwinds, and strings, and horns, and keyboards - not programmed, but played by some of the best in the biz! Whatever else is said about it IS sonically a wonderful thing to behold. It almost feels like a concert, like the whole thing was recorded live in one take. And Joni's vocals don't feel as buried as they were on BSN. (Colin, I agree with you and still cannot jive with BSN) So shudder away... Bob NP: Rachel Z Trio, "Free Man In Paris" (even better still!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:54:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate (njc) In a message dated 11/8/2002 4:52:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, rstm@ayso-l.org writes: > Compare "Like a Virgin" with "Shades of Scarlett Conquering"? "Holiday" to > "Edith and the King Pin"? "Borderline" to "Borderline"? ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:03:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Franklin says "Hi!" NJC Hey there Franklin...and a BIG welcome to the JMDL! What a great time to join up...new Joni in 2 weeks, a couple of outstanding tribute CD's released this year, and - dare we say it - a tour? I dunno, but I hope so. I'd love to see her go out with a trio or a quartet. Of course, only once in a while do I get what I wish for. Bob NP: Rachel Z, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:3:28 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only > Why is it that hardly anyone ever suggests that it's MEN who > should "get SNIPPED?" Seems to me THAT option might be beneficial in > lots of other scenarios, including reducing aggressive behavior. It's funny how people seem to forget that it takes two people to get a woman pregnant, and the man bears just as much responsibility and it could be argued, more responsibility than the woman...even the language itself, "getting someone pregnant", suggests that an action is being done to a woman. I wish men would seek to understand, admire, and truly love women instead of placing blame on them for everything that is wrong in the world and using them for their own gratification. There are terrible crimes being committed against women every day...even here in quiet, peaceful Western North Carolina. Victor NP: Beck...it seems to have been stuck in my cd player lately :~} - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:05:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue question (again) In a message dated 11/8/2002 5:27:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > Someone???? > > You're right Jimmy, it won't be eligible for a Grammy until 2004. I don't know if that's true, but at least now you have a resonse! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:22:48 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday Bob wrote: > I'm anxious to hear Kate's account, and I applaud her & Jeff's efforts and would LOVE to hear it someday...and >so cool that Pevar & Jimmy Messina were there! As far as the demo that he recorded, would that have been "Day >After Day"? Sorry for my somewhat incoherent post - 3 in the a.m. and 6 hrs. of rain driving, LOL I missed the story but I think Rick said that he produced/engineered either Song to a Seagull as a demo or maybe a song from STAS. Maybe Kate, Rick or Yael can fill us in. Isn't it strange that we haven't heard more about Messina's involvement!? > Anyway, thanks again...maybe I'll start hitchhiking this weekend so I can make Santa Barbara in time for the >NEXT one. Yes! And bring Victor along with you ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:13:22 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: steely dan njc Mark wrote: I have never really 'gotten' Steely Dan. I don't think I did, or have, either Mark. At least not to the extent of being a big, big fan of theirs. I remember in the 70's that they were very big on the radio and I liked the tunes though not enough to buy them, and never did, then. A couple of years ago, trying to fulfill one of those membership agreements, I purchased the cd 'A Decade of Steely Dan.' After listening to it quite a bit over the months past I have now an appreciation for them that I did not have before. I still don't know if I really "get" them but I sure do like them. The hit tunes still have about the same effect on me as they did but there are a couple of other tunes on this cd that far outshine them, in my opinion. 'Babylon Sisters' is superb and my favorite that I can play over and over again, and still not get too much of is 'Bad Sneakers.' Blair asked on another unrelated post about our vision of performers that we had not seen. I was convinced these guys were black until I found out better. Now, I wonder how I could have thought that. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:18:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday In a message dated 11/8/2002 8:13:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > Sorry for my somewhat incoherent post - 3 in the a.m. and 6 hrs. of rain > driving No apology needed, Kakki - your post was definitely 'above & beyond the call of duty"!, > Isn't it strange that we > haven't heard more about Messina's involvement!? Yes indeed! And I want to hear more, so Coyote or Kate, pick up the slack and spill the details... Bob > > >Anyway, thanks again...maybe I'll start hitchhiking this weekend so I can > make Santa Barbara in time for the >NEXT one. > > Yes! And bring Victor along with you ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:26:22 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Some Up and Coming Joni Fans? My kids, 8 and 6, have long despaired when I put on a Joni CD in the car -- or anyone else I like for that matter ("Awwww, Jonatha Brooke / Neil Finn , etc. again??!!") to the point where I wait until they're gone to listen and enjoy (okay, and sing at the top of my lungs). Yesterday being Joni's birthday, I told them we were going to listen to some Joni in her honor. I put in TI, but somehow the mood wasn't right and the themes for kids are a little bleak. I dug out STAS and lo and behold there was dead silence the whole way to our destination. My daughter asked to have the sound faded into the back seat. After a while, she said, "what did she say?" about a certain lyric. Hmmm, I thought, maybe they're listening. Today my son was helping with a chore and out of the blue he said, "what does she say after 'you know my key won't fit the door'?" Later, we were in the car, and my son said, "Aren't you going to play Joni Mitchell?" I pushed the 'play' button from where it had been, and he said, "No, start it from the beginning." They asked what "Nathan LaFraneer" was about. I remarked that I thought "Night in the City" was a great song, and sophisticated musically for a person who was probably 20 when she wrote it. (Like I know because I'm some highly trained musician ... ha!) Dennis asked what the first words were. I came inside and found my original album sleeve and put it out for him to read the lyrics. He had a big smile on his face as he read them aloud. My daughter, who is a wonderful artist, thought the artwork was great. Do you think they get it?? Could it be so?? Well, they once seemed to get along for about 24 hours and then that all fell apart, so I won't hold my breath. It's a glimmer, though, and I'll take a glimmer. Glimmer is good. Musing, Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:35:13 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oil/war (njc) (pc) Hi Anne, > If there were no oil there I doubt we'd focus on the region the way we do. But my question is why does the U.S. need to focus on the region with regard to oil when we reduced our dependancy on middle east oil by about 75% years ago (I think the U.S. did this in the 70s as a reaction to being held up by OPEC). I've read that we get about 10% from Iraq, but that is through the UN program, i.e,. we get some oil in exchange for humanitarian services in light of the sanctions on the country. Who benefits the most, from a purely economic standpoint, from middle eastern oil - it is overwhelmingly Europe and Asia. Those are the regions who need the middle east to be stabilized as far as keeping the flow going to them. The U.S. has many other sources and has for years, plus the oil men are far more interested in tapping into Russia's reserves at this point. If it were only about oil for the U.S., I'd think we would choose to drill the hell out of our own country before we would ever have a war solely based on getting oil from a region that we have not been dependent on for years. The theory that the Bushes and Cheney, et al could personally benefit financially from was in Iraq just doesn't add up to me. They are already mega rich - they don't have a personal motivation to get even richer. Bush I is old and Cheney has been in fragile and precarious health for years now. It just doesn't add up to me that they would be pursuing this out of personal greed when their days on this earth are fairly numbered. So what stance does one take? If it is only about access to the oil, should the U.S. back off completely and tell Europe and Asia to deal with Saddam in whatever way that may lead? Part of me has no problem with that at all. I'm beyond sick of the U.S. going in to help other countries and then bearing the brunt of the backlash. Shall we adopt the idealistic humanitarian stance and support Saddam's removal because he is, by all evidence and longstanding accounts, as bad as Hitler and Stalin combined, and is a menace not only in his own country but potentially to all the surrounding countries in the mid-east? When he invaded Kuwait, the U.S. did not decide on its own to go and turn him back - the U.S. was asked by the UN and many countries to step in. Now today, we have the UN Security Council in unanimous agreement on the latest resolution to demand that he allow full inspection of his weapons. >Suddenly the wealthy sheiks were driving fancy Western cars on new wide roads. In the > meantime, the general population wasn't getting the > benefit of the wealth. Yet, culturally, it's taboo to > fault one's own people, one's own "tribe." So, who do > you blame? Those who caused this schism, the outsiders. Oh so true. What makes it even more gnarly is that the sheiks have been funding all their madrassas to keep the people focused on hating the west so that they won't turn and attack the real source of their oppression - the shieks. > I believe this explains the appeal of Osama bin Laden. > He did split with his family, or so it seemed. He also > seemed to champion the cause of the average person, but > did so while calling upon the centuries old traditions > of his religion. But I can't see anything noble at all in what OBL has spawned. I don't see them as freedom fighters in a romantic way as we may look at our own history of freedom fighters. The people are barbarically repressed with little ways of finding joy in their lives. OBL offers them the excitement of warrior-hood as a release for their anger and coats it with a religious pretense so that they feel somehow they are being called to a higher purpose. It's pure demonic psychology devised by a sociopath. How can the U.S. in any way deal with such a stew? Do we have the qualified psychologists and diplomats to effectively turn this around? You say the Bushes should have given the moderate moslems a seat at the table but I recall back to Nixon and Kissinger efforts on the part of the U.S. to do just that. Look at our efforts and alliances with men like King Hussein of Jordan, Anwar Sadat of Egypt and even Saddam himself way back in the late 70s - early 80s before he turned mad. For Al Gore to say Bush squandered a lot of goodwill in just a year just leaves me going "huh?" Pretty disingenous considering all the terrorist attacks on the U.S. and failed progress in the Israel/Palestinian peace accords during his years of tenure. I don't have answers but there are a lot of questions. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:37:56 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) Erica asked: What makes Madonna more or less influencial that Joni? Well, I would surmise that Joni is much more influential in the music business itself for what she has contributed to it and base that supposition on what I have read and heard, here and elsewhere. As for which one is more influential in general, guess it depends on what group or area that are being influenced. Most of your average joes and joannes don't know who Joni Mitchell is. Have never heard of her and even those that have heard her hits don't know anything else about her. If not for my friend Jeff all those years ago I might not have bothered to delve deeper and would not have found her myself. Everyone knows who Madonna is. The question about how talented the woman is doesn't even enter into the equation. She has had much more influence on the general public than Joni Mitchell. In my opinion, and taking this word from another post today and I think they posted the same thing, Joni Mitchell is rather obscure in the overall scheme pertaining to the average person. Luckily, some have found her. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 21:33:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Rachel Z Trio - "Moon At The Window" In a message dated 11/8/2002 4:25:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, joe.farrell@ukonline.co.uk writes: > NP: Moon At The Window Rachel Z ( really like her take on Joni's stuff) > I'll piggyback onto what you're saying, Joe...what a BIG surprise this one turned out to be! While I liked the Steve Klink cd, THIS one betters it. Like Jerry said, Rachel's currently playing on Peter Gabriel's tour, so you know she's no slouch. And this is one COOL trio...besides Rachel Z on the keys, you've got Patricia Des Lauriers on bass & the Brian Blade-like Bobbie Rae on drums. All 3 of these musicians are outstanding and really work well together. There's never a doubt as to which Joni song is being interpreted, but Rachel throws in some of those "weird minor chords" and invents some very creative mini-riffs throughout. Her solos are very accessible, and she always returns to the melodic line so you stay anchored with the song at hand. And she gives her rhythm section to flex its muscles as well. One of the many things I like about this cd is that Rachel finds some nice grooves in rarely-done compositions like Ladies Man, Moon At The Window, & Lakota. It's exciting to me that musicians are picking up on and expanding on Joni's 80's work. And there is still so much fertile ground for exploration! (Or would that be "Myrtle" ground?) ;~) Even her takes on BSN, Carey, River, Circle Game are fresh & original. (The cd is subtitled "Piano impressions of Joni") Anyway, I can honestly say that I love every song on the CD, and highly recommend it to Joni fans. Hey, pick it up to help you through the wait to November 19! You can hear some samples on the cdnow site: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=749554027/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album. html/ArtistID=RACHEL+Z/ITEMID=1597247 Bob, VP of covers NP: Rachel Z Trio, "Ladies Man" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #472 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)