From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #471 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 471 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: NJC PC unbelievable sickening U.S. election results [FredNow@aol.com] Travelogue - Tune A Day [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: njc pluses and minuses [vince ] Re: njc pluses and minuses [vince ] Re: S. Dan Music NJC ["Humble tiger" ] Re: S. Dan Music NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] njc drunk [colin ] njc as I've matured [colin ] NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] OUR Original Visual Concept ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: njc drunk ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Nonesuch [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday [Jerry Notaro ] Corned Beef Re-hash [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Corned Beef Re-hash ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Corned Beef Re-hash ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] RE: Corned Beef Re-hash [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Travelogue - Tune A Day [Rusty10113@aol.com] Rachel Z [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Corned Beef Re-hash [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Travelogue - Tune A Day [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: NJC Question ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Corned Beef Re-hash ["Blair Fraipont" ] The Great Madonna Debate(njc) ["Humble tiger" ] Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Corned Beef? C'mon Kids! ["Christopher Treacy" ] Fwd: Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash [WARREN901@aol.com] travelogue ["joe farrell" ] Travelogue - First Impression [Merk54@aol.com] buzztone.com preview alternative ["J. G." ] NJC PC the election ["Kate Bennett" ] Today in History: November 7 ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni's comments about Letterman ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 03:12:48 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 8 1996: Joni was taped for an appearance on the Rosie O'Donnell Show in New York City. - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 03:49:49 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC PC unbelievable sickening U.S. election results FredNow@aol.com writes: >and, finally, would you support an invasion >even if it meant dangerous nation-building requiring years of military >presence and billions of our tax dollars? -- and there is a tiny sliver >of the pie left representing those still responding "yes," which turns out >to be only 4 people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, & Rice. I forgot the great tag line ... the last frame is Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, & Rice, and Bush says: "Let's roll!" - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:23:46 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Travelogue - Tune A Day Hey Gang I was listening to Otis & Marlena and I LOVE THIS!!!! It sounds kinda baroque, much like chamber music, regal and humorous. Still waiting for the 18th (as play.com have promised) but wondering whether that will be the special edition (I doubt it but ya never know) Heard Amelia and that was a much more straightforward symphonic interpretation, but I still love it. Raffaele, which magazine did you see the advert in? Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 02:26:08 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Celebrating Joni's birthday Just got home a bit ago from Kate Bennett's 2nd annual tribute to Joni at Soho in Santa Barbara and fundraiser for music programs in the local schools. It was really fantastic and Kate and Jeff did a superb job. We had our first hard pouring rain here in it seems like years and so it was a challenge getting there and I missed the first hour (which included Yael and Jim Messina!! argh). Probably before tonight Kate was the almost the only one who knew Messina produced Joni's first demo. (Not Crosby!). I met up with Coyote Rick and Yael and Messina had just left their table. He did not perform but told the story of producing the demo and working with her. Many of the top Santa Barbara singer-songwriters performed and, of course, Kate even got Jeff Pevar there, too! The place was absolutely jam-packed but it was good to see such a turn-out on a stormy night. The songs spanned all of Joni's periods and each were introduced with a reading by Kate. Some standouts for me were Anita Bayley singing "Electricity" and "For the Roses" absolutely beautifully and perfectly note for note like the original, Karen Thurber, who reminded me so much of Marian in her brilliant precision and perfection on "Good Bye Pork Pie Hat," and then OMG Marcella and George Quirin with friends doing a "Centerpiece" that was part Tuck & Patti, part Manhattan Transfer and part early Annie Ross. OMG. I'd noticed George earlier sitting in on dulcimer on "All I Want" and I thought to myself "he's (our) Victor!" When he later played acoustic guitar (try to imagine this for that song) on "Centerpiece" better than Tuck, I again thought "Victor." When I raved to him after the show, he was so humble and said he'd just learned it today, I knew it he was truly our local "Victor"! ;-) He and his wife Marcella have a CD called "Clarity" on sale at Borders. Highly recommend checking them out. The performances tonight were taped and I hope there will be a forthcoming CD. Next year I hope more of the jmdlers can make it. Major kudos to Kate for an outstanding night! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:25:44 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: njc pluses and minuses Deb Messling wrote: > Hey, watch your mouth, bud. We in New Jersey have a Democratic governor, > thank you very much (McGreevey) and in our Senate race, the Democrat > (Lautenberg) trounced the Republican handily. You're thinking of Maryland. Exactly right, I was thinking of Maryland, all Easterners look alike to me! :-) Sorry for the mis-state. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:30:03 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: njc pluses and minuses Humble tiger wrote: > > > NH has also gone 'publican!!! But there was no big surprise there. > > Erica in NH You are right - I should have mentioned that - it was the return of a long held GOP seat recently held by a Democrat - but feeling more sheepish about confusing NJ with Maryland - thanks for the gentle correction! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:30:37 -0500 From: "Humble tiger" Subject: Re: S. Dan Music NJC Now now, let's not generalize, I'm taking this as a huge insult! I HATE Allen Parsons type stuff, geez you guys are harsh! Erica Hey 19 - Steely Dan (lechery and substance abuse - somebody's idea of a good time) Gaucho - Steely Dan [what's it all about, Stee-ly? (and why should we care?)] Mark, I'm with you here. Other than "Deacon Blues" I just never saw what all the commotion was about. I find the people who like this music also are into Allen Parsons type stuff. Not for me. Will _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:51:11 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: S. Dan Music NJC In a message dated 11/8/2002 7:30:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, humbletiger@hotmail.com writes: > Now now, let's not generalize, I'm taking this as a huge > insult! I HATE > Allen Parsons type stuff, geez you guys are harsh! I've never connected liking the Dan to liking Alan Parsons, BUT "I Robot" is an awesome record, and most of "Pyramid" is great as well. Alan jumped the shark shortly thereafter. And don't forget that Parsons is probably most responsible for the sonics behind one of Rock's best works - Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon". And as for Steely Dan? Well, they can do no wrong in my book. Even Joni acknowledges the genius of their compositional skills (matter of fact "Gaucho" was the song she picked!) Happy Friday all - we made it! Bob NP: Hejira from T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:06:34 +0000 From: colin Subject: njc drunk THINGS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK Indubitably Innovative Preliminary Proliferation Cinnamon THINGS THAT ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK Specificity British Constitution Passive-aggressive disorder Loquacious Transubstantiate THINGS THAT ARE DOWNRIGHT IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK Thanks, but I don't want to have sex. Nope, no more booze for me. Sorry, but you're not really my type. Good evening officer, isn't it lovely out tonight. Oh, I just couldn't. No one wants to hear me sing. - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:08:02 +0000 From: colin Subject: njc as I've matured I've learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is stalk them and hope they panic and give in. I've learned that no matter how much I care, some people are just assholes. I've learned that it takes years to build up trust, and it only takes suspicion, not proof, to destroy it. I've learned that you can get by on charm for about fifteen minutes. After that, you'd better have a big willy or huge boobs. I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to others -- they are more screwed up than you think. I've learned that you can keep vomiting long after you think you're finished. I've learned that we are responsible for what we do, unless we are celebrities. I've learned that regardless of how hot and steamy a relationship is at first, the passion fades, and there had better be a lot of money to take its place. I've learned that 99% of the time when something isn't working in your house, one of your kids did it. I've learned that the people you care most about in life are taken from you too soon and all the less important ones just never go away. I've learned to say "F--- 'em if they can't take a joke" in 6 languages. Pass this along to 5 friends...trust me, they'll appreciate it. Who knows, maybe something good will happen. If not...tough shit. - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:15:05 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday In a message dated 11/8/2002 5:26:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > Major kudos to Kate > for an outstanding night! And kudos to you for your report! Wish I could have been there...maybe I need to find a "Sugar Mama" who will treat me to the spoiled lifestyle I so richly deserve! I'm anxious to hear Kate's account, and I applaud her & Jeff's efforts and would LOVE to hear it someday...and so cool that Pevar & Jimmy Messina were there! As far as the demo that he recorded, would that have been "Day After Day"? Anyway, thanks again...maybe I'll start hitchhiking this weekend so I can make Santa Barbara in time for the NEXT one. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:29:09 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: OUR Original Visual Concept I was wondering if anyone out there at one point or another in their life heard a record on the radio or at someone's house loved it and eventually bought it. BUt before you had purhcased it, you had no idea what the singer looked like. SO, in your head you created you own little private visualization. I was inspired by someone who wrote an article about being 6 years old and falling in love with "What's Love Got To Do with it" by Tina Turner. This person did not have MTV, nor was he old enough to recall what Tina Turner looked like. This person came up with the idea that She was this tall, Sinewy, NOrdic Goddess with Golden hair. I thought the idea of posing this question to the list was a good one. SO, Have any of you created an image in your head of what your singer/performer looked like based on what they sounded like? Blair :) NP: "How Am I Different?" Aimee MAnn _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:37:32 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: njc drunk This is too funny for my mother always had a test with my father. When he would be seemingly sauced up (and he was always good at hiding his drunkeness) my mother would trick him into saying their bank name by posing a question. Our bank then was, "CITIZEN's NATIONAL" So, my mom knew old dad was done for when he would reply, "CIZZZiZENSSS NASHNOL BANK"!! I told this to a friend and they said that they always used the word, "SWIZZLE STICK" But, i will definitely test these words out sometime. Blair NP:"Satelite" AImee Mann > >THINGS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK > > Indubitably > Innovative > Preliminary > Proliferation > Cinnamon > > > THINGS THAT ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK > > Specificity > British Constitution > Passive-aggressive disorder > Loquacious Transubstantiate > > > THINGS THAT ARE DOWNRIGHT IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK > > Thanks, but I don't want to have sex. > Nope, no more booze for me. > Sorry, but you're not really my type. > Good evening officer, isn't it lovely out tonight. > Oh, I just couldn't. No one wants to hear me sing. > >-- >bw >colin > >TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) > >colin@tantra-apso.com >http://www.tantra-apso.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:10:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Nonesuch David Marine wrote: > Some gems like "The Dawntreader" are > nothing short of spectacular. > I have to agree with David. The Dawntreader has grown on me as being the > stellar track.. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:24:42 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Celebrating Joni's birthday Damn, Kakki. You get to go to everything! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:02:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Lecture-Birds & the Bees 101 NJC!!!!! over 21 only > As far as abortion goes, you can make the mistake of getting pregnant > once and get it aborted (if you must). Make the mistake twice and > that person needs to get SNIPPED. William, you just struck a loud chord, but the resulting sound is not pretty. So a woman who is not receiving welfare is responsibly using contraception -- which would indicate to me that she either does not want or is not ready to raise a child -- and gets pregnant more than once and chooses to abort more than once, and she should elect sterilization? Even the most reliable methods of birth control are not 100% effective, and condoms can have pinholes or break altogether. Why is it that hardly anyone ever suggests that it's MEN who should "get SNIPPED?" Seems to me THAT option might be beneficial in lots of other scenarios, including reducing aggressive behavior. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 07:18:23 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: election's big loser (njc) (pc) > I didn't mean to single you out at all Anne, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. No worries. I didn't take it personally at all. > Maybe it is "all about oil" as far as the oil being an important part of the region Yes, I really do think so. If there were no oil there I doubt we'd focus on the region the way we do. > the whole situation goes back way before the Bushes and before U.S. involvement. I just can't get > my head around thinking it all somehow started with the Bushes or that they somehow > orchestrate all the middle east oil transactions. Yes, the religious tension is centuries old. Certainly there's something of a crisis within the Moslem religion about how to live in the modern world. I often consider the fact that the Western world has evolved from medieval times through the Renaissance, the industrial revolution etc. (not to mention the American revolution, which spawned a new way of thinking about people's involvement in government.) In many Arab countries, there were no such revolutions, cultural or political. So starting around the 1920s, the Western world began to encroach upon what was basically a medieval-era culture. Suddenly the wealthy sheiks were driving fancy Western cars on new wide roads. In the meantime, the general population wasn't getting the benefit of the wealth. Yet, culturally, it's taboo to fault one's own people, one's own "tribe." So, who do you blame? Those who caused this schism, the outsiders. I believe this explains the appeal of Osama bin Laden. He did split with his family, or so it seemed. He also seemed to champion the cause of the average person, but did so while calling upon the centuries old traditions of his religion. All this to say, the Bush family didn't start the tension. However, their handling (both father and son) of the Moslem world shows a lack of true understanding of the cultural complexity of the history of the region. Rather than being confrontational and saying "You're evil because you're not like us," both missed an opportunity to appeal to the mainstream Moslem and to give them a metaphorical "seat at the table." Had that been done, we would have much more widespread support worldwide. I don't think it's too late, but it's certainly getting there. I believe Al Gore said it correctly when he stated that George W. squandered a world of goodwill in just a year. The > I've looked at Bush I's and Cheney's bios - they are not what I would characaterize as oil men. You and Jenny Goodspeed have inspired me to look at this again. Thank you to Jenny for adding more information to this discussion. > I essentially don't think the US should be involved in any other countries. > I'm philosophically a non-interventionist. I only think we should intervene out of direct self-defense. I understand your position, although I think that being the most powerful nation carries some world responsibilities with it. However, whenever possible, I believe we should act through the U.N., in alliance with other nations. I'm enjoying this thoughtful discussion. Carefully considering your position makes me rethink mine. In some cases it reaffirms for me what I originally thought and in others makes me go back and do more reading. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:53:50 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Sound files location and use UPDATE Hi there, seems that the folks who run the website with the Flash sound files are reading this here, too. The directory browsing has been disabled :)) But the files are still all there, you just have to know the file names :) For those of you who didn't have the time to grab the previews so far, here are the complete file paths: http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/amelie.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/borderline.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/cherokee.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/chinesecafe.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/circlegame.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/dawntreader.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/hejira.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/lasttime.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/love.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/otisandmarlena.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/refugeofroads.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/slouchingtowards.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/woodstock.swf http://feature.atlrec.com/buzztone/joni_mitchell/youdream.swf As I wrote earlier, these files are in Flash format. I found this a little inconvenient to handle as there is no player with start/stop buttons etc. So I searched for a tool that can extract sound from a Flash file. I found a freeware program (for Windows) called SWF Extractor which you can get from http://www.19.5degs.com/downloads.php You can then extract the embedded mp3 files from the swf files :)))) The mp3s then can be nicely played in Winamp etc. The mp3s are in 22050Hz Mono only but sound pretty cool if you turn up the volume a bit. The sound is the same as in the swf file, but of course the handling is much better with the mp3 version. Then I looked for a Winamp skin that would give me an optical impression of an old radio - I thought that would fit the simple sound quality and the songs as such. I dug out one from http://turnerclassicmovies.com/FunStuff/VideoSkins/0,13207,11962,00.html Feel free to email me if you have any questions. Enjoy! moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:04:41 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: S. Dan Music NJC Aja and Royal Scam would be in my top twenty albums of all time. Maybe Gaucho? I love Donald Fagin's solo, Nightfly too! Bree ! >Now now, let's not generalize, I'm taking this as a huge insult! I HATE >Allen Parsons type stuff, geez you guys are harsh! > >Erica > > > >Hey 19 - Steely Dan (lechery and substance abuse - somebody's idea of a >good >time) >Gaucho - Steely Dan [what's it all about, Stee-ly? (and why should we >care?)] > >Mark, I'm with you here. Other than "Deacon Blues" I just never saw what >all the commotion was about. I find the people who like this music also are >into Allen Parsons type stuff. Not for me. >Will > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:42:53 +0000 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Corned Beef Re-hash I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm. Go on, kill me, but as a lover of Joni and of classical and operatic (and jazz and folk etc etc) music, I was not 'blown away' by the orchestration on Amelia which I heard today. It wasn't Mantovanni but it wasn't Adams or Glass either. What am I saying? I dunno. Is is great art? Is Mendozza a master...I doubt it so far...do I wanna be wrong...u betcha! Please make the other tracks spine tinglingly good. I'm praying for some insight on the other tracks. I want the musicians to add something meaningful ....am I an old moan...almost certainly... but as Joni calls herself a painter and not an artist, IMHO Mendozza is a musical furnisher not a great orchestrator. (could I do any better I ask myself...lol) . Time to go home and let the bile out somewhere else..Sorry folks..I hope if she does more of this kinda thing, she teams up with someone else Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:52:12 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash Gordon wrote: I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm. From the tracks I heard, I am blown away by nothing and have not been able to discern any new musical statement being made by this album. At my most cynical, it is like the release of U2's Greatest Hits, just in time for Christmas gift giving. And this album is kind of a greatest hits of Joni thing. Hell yes I am buying it - I had it preordered a long time ago - but I wonder what is the real purpose here, what is supposed to blow me away, what is the new thing, why? I am aching to hear new Joni material. And as a seasons ticket holder to the opera and great lover of classical music, I am not impressed by what sounds to me more typical overblown orchestrations. Kind of like the Hollywood Sgrings playing Beatles songs, except in this album we have Joni singing. Damn I tried to like what I heard on the links, tried real hard, and maybe when I play the album I will hear it differently. I will now duck from the angry responses that I will get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:52:29 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash Gordon wrote: I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm. From the tracks I heard, I am blown away by nothing and have not been able to discern any new musical statement being made by this album. At my most cynical, it is like the release of U2's Greatest Hits, just in time for Christmas gift giving. And this album is kind of a greatest hits of Joni thing. Hell yes I am buying it - I had it preordered a long time ago - but I wonder what is the real purpose here, what is supposed to blow me away, what is the new thing, why? I am aching to hear new Joni material. And as a seasons ticket holder to the opera and great lover of classical music, I am not impressed by what sounds to me more typical overblown orchestrations. Kind of like the Hollywood Sgrings playing Beatles songs, except in this album we have Joni singing. Damn I tried to like what I heard on the links, tried real hard, and maybe when I play the album I will hear it differently. I will now duck from the angry responses that I will get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:09:02 -0000 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: Corned Beef Re-hash I'm very much afraid that these are impressions i share on the subject of Travelogue based on what i've heard from these networked music files. i'm ready to go on at length about where i think this has gone wrong but am going to wait to hear the CD. Corny, Beefed-up on orc-castration and very much a re-hash. les (london and desparate to be proved wrong with this) - -----Original Message----- From: Lavieri, Vince [185776] [mailto:revrvl@chartermi.net] Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash Gordon wrote: I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm. From the tracks I heard, I am blown away by nothing and have not been able to discern any new musical statement being made by this album. Damn I tried to like what I heard on the links, tried real hard, and maybe when I play the album I will hear it differently. I will now duck from the angry responses that I will get. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:51:16 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue - Tune A Day Hi all, gotta say, I'm loving Amelia, it's beautiful and fabulous fun to hear Joni cover herself, so many years after the original, I just hope the rest of Travelogue is this good... so, who's heard it from start to finish? cmon gang, Im dying to hear... and yes, I'm dismissing the Rolling Stone review as irrelevant... MR Happy New Yorker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:55:18 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Rachel Z Have to give a BIG thumbs up for The Rachel Z Trio's cd Moon at the Window. It is dazzling. And she is opening for Peter Gabriel on his upcoming 20 city tour. Aren't many trios around doing that! Thanks to our own Music Man Here In River City, Bob Muller for turning me on to it. Jerry np Rachel Z Trio - Chinese Cafe ( listen to this arrangement, Mr. Mendoza) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:57:39 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash But Gordon help me here ... How do You really feel about this version of Amelia! LOL! Seriously I appreciate hearing a very unbiased non patronizing opinion. As a lover of jazz - -especially jazz divas, while I enjoy Joni's renditions - I haven't really thought of her as a major song stylist in that area - she hasn't blown me away! AND I Absolutley believe who you work & that chemistry is paramount. This seems elementry but I think often artists get comfortable with eachother and mistake that for chemistry. I do hope Joni works on style developement and regaining some strength & power. I happen to know that both Cyndi Lauper and Phoebe Snow use a voice coach, and the same one as a matter of fact, or did, ... Wonder if Joni has considered this, if she is not to busy "wrestling with her ego!" Peace, Susan - --- Gordon Mackie wrote: > I tell Amelia, it was just a false alarm. > > Go on, kill me, but as a lover of Joni and of classical and operatic > (and jazz and folk etc etc) music, I was not 'blown away' by the > orchestration on Amelia which I heard today. It wasn't Mantovanni but > it wasn't Adams or Glass either. What am I saying? I dunno. Is is > great art? Is Mendozza a master...I doubt it so far...do I wanna be > wrong...u betcha! Please make the other tracks spine tinglingly good. > > I'm praying for some insight on the other tracks. I want the > musicians to add something meaningful ....am I an old moan...almost > certainly... but as Joni calls herself a painter and not an artist, > IMHO Mendozza is a musical furnisher not a great orchestrator. (could > I do any better I ask myself...lol) . Time to go home and let the > bile out somewhere else..Sorry folks..I hope if she does more of this > kinda thing, she teams up with someone else > > Gordon U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:07:21 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue - Tune A Day In a message dated 11/8/2002 12:51:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rusty10113 writes: > so, who's heard it from start to finish? cmon > gang, Im dying to hear... If you really love that Amelia, you're in for a GREAT treat. I've played it all the way through 3 times since I got it yesterday, and there are some hits and misses to be sure. I am going to dwell on the stuff that I like at this point rather than be a negative nelly about it. I'll only say that there is some frustration when you hear glimpses at what might have been with some of these tracks. And I don't want to dampen the enthusiasm & surprise for those who haven't heard it. I too am clamoring for NEW Joni, but when you look at it she has given us 4 cd's in as many years, so while we wait for her musical muse to return at least we have some new stuff to listen to. Bob NP: Van, "Caravan" (Last Waltz) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:18:12 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: NJC Question Colin, I never been to a spiritualist service. I have been to psychic fairs.....not to impressed with them. I do have a medium I go to and do like her a lot. As you said, they tell you, you don't tell them. This is a subject I could go on for days about. Thanks for your input, and information. Kasey > She says John Edward has been exposed as a fake. He uses the > cold reading technique, but apparently he also plants microphones in the > audience to garner material. > I know you are just passing this on Deb, so this is not aimed at you. I am rather tired of hearing this sort of crap said about poeple who have a genuine ability and use it. I have a strong interest in this subject(as does my partner). we have seen many excellent demonstrations of mediumship that were by no means fake at all. The people who slander these people are so arrogant, they think eveyrone is stupid and being taken in. There are bad and fake mediums. Yes the word is medium, not psychic. A psychic is something different and Mr Edwards is a medium. I have seen his show. Now becaue it is television, it is of course possible to fake it. however, what he does cannot be said to be cold reading. Cold reading is nothing compared to real meduimship. Either Mr Edwards is genuine or he is a liar and faking his messages, pre planend etc with plants in the audience. however, what he is shown doing is NOT cold reading. Cold reading is a favourite saying of pyshologists and magicians and who wouldn;'t know the genuine article if it was right under their nose. What THEY do is cold reading and crap. Anyone with a bit of knowledge can tell a fake or cold reader. There are people who set themselves up as psychics or mediums who do exactly that. however, thare are many genuine mediums. They are easily found and watched and listened to. The fact that people don't bother to research this properly and don't go and see them demonstrate tells me they are more than biased against it in the first place. IF you want to go for a reading: DO NOT pay a load of money. Up to $30 maybe. Do go on recommendation if you can. If you can, go to a Spriritualist service and see a medium working. Not always good, but the good ones are there.(and usually free) These services are not disimiliar to an ordinary church srvice with prayers and hymns but with a medium as the speaker/demonstrator. NEVER say anything to the medium other than yes, no or I don't uderstand. Don't fill in deatils. Make them work and TELL YOU!!!! If they are genuine they will give you information about deceased loved ones. Job, nature of death, physical characteristics, temperament, family details etc. The info will differ but the importnat thing is it will not be vague and will be meaningful to you, the recipient. If it isn't, then it has failed. You do not need to say anything. IF the person cannot provide this, then they are either fake or they are a psychic. Now a psychic is someone who can accurately give you details about yourself and your past and possibly your future, but will not be able to give the spirit evidence as above. All sittings with a medium are an experiment. If the medium is conscientious, they will tell you that the sitting is not working when they do not get a communiator. They will not bullshit you or fluff their way thru it. No one can contact the dead. the dead contact us. so you cannot go and say 'i want to speak with Elvis'!!! Just like with anything in the field of metaphysics(just look at those tv evangelists), there are deliberate abusers and fakes, there are the well meaning but uselss and or dangerous, and there are also the well meaning and gifted. It is up to us to use our brains and our OPEN minds to sort the wheat from the chaff. The only unforgiveable sin is a closed mind. A closed mind cannot be changed. A closed mind locks out forgiveness.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:33:04 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Corned Beef Re-hash I know Both Sides NOw got similar flack that the orchestrations were "syrupy" or "overdone" but honestly they fit the subject material. And in concert all the covers done, "Hejira" "for the Roses" "Be Cool" and others were well adapted. I am not sure how mucht those songs will differ on record. HOnestly, I don't think this record was made to Blow ANyone away. I see it as a new introduction, a reinterpretation of familiar songs of past. Maybe I enjoy them, because I am a romantic type.. I have no clue if that has anything to do with it. I doubt Joni wanted this record to be the next best thing to Debussy, or Glass, or Edgar Varese, but to be only but true to what she wants it to be. Who knows? when interviews come out we'll see what she'll have to say. Blair NP: "Up on the Roof"-Laura Nyro >Hell yes I am buying it - I had it preordered a long time >ago - but I wonder what is the real purpose here, what is >supposed to blow me away, what is the new thing, why? > >I am aching to hear new Joni material. > >And as a seasons ticket holder to the opera and great lover >of classical music, I am not impressed by what sounds to me >more typical overblown orchestrations. Kind of like the >Hollywood Sgrings playing Beatles songs, except in this >album we have Joni singing. > >Damn I tried to like what I heard on the links, tried real >hard, and maybe when I play the album I will hear it >differently. > >I will now duck from the angry responses that I will get. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:36:27 -0500 From: "Humble tiger" Subject: The Great Madonna Debate(njc) What makes Madonna more or less influencial that Joni? I've been having this debate with my good friend Josh for weeks now, I keep asking him to define "influence", sure if cone shaped bras and a gap between your front teeth are what you mean (although Dave Letterman wins that contest) maybe madonna wins, but I just can't get him to see that Ms. Mitchell has had more influence in the music industry. I told him Madonna's favorite album in high school was C&S, he didn't care, he keeps saying he'd never even heard of Joni before he met me, I told him he has bad taste in music (just kidding). Anyway, I was wondering is if everyone would add some fuel to this fire, I would appreciate any and all ideas concerning this debate. I guess I have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Madonna, for me shape shifting, sexual power and shock value don't cut it. Erica _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:39:47 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Post Gossip Column on Joni's birthday!! I guess we all screwed up when we didn't give Joni what she really needs for her birthday: an anger management course. Although I am not a huge fan of Madonna, I do think she is a great example of someone who has absolutely made the most of what little talent she has, in addition to being a very smart businesswoman and a PR genius. (And a Joni fan, for chrissakes.) What's more, I have great respect for David Letterman. He always makes me laugh and is just about the only reason I turn on my TV. (And incidentally, I think he has truly seemed awestruck whenever Joni has appeared on his show, which will probably never happen again after this latest bitter outburst.) If Joni really wants to watch musicians being interviewed, there are other shows on the tube -- such as the stuff you find on VH1 or MTV -- that cater to that. If musicians and singers generally made interesting interview subjects, late night TV would have picked up on that years ago and they wouldn't all be following the same format of putting musical acts at the end of their shows. Call me crazy, but I think musical acts are at their most entertaining when they're making music. Joni should get over being "ashamed to be in the music business" and start thinking about the hurtful things she says about people who admire her. God, I can only imagine what she would think of someone who takes the time to respond to one of her outbursts by posting to this list. -- Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:46:24 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Corned Beef? C'mon Kids! My word, y'all are so ready to bury this fuckin' project before it's even gone retail. However vulgar the analogy, I will admit that Joni could walk into the vocal booth, take a dump, and issue it with a scratch and sniff patch and I'd probably be blown away and give it five stars. That said, I just want to make clear that I DON'T THINK JONI WAS NECESSARILY TRYING TO MAKE ANY SORT OF 'NEW STATEMENT' BY RECORDING TRAVELOGUE. Moreover, I think she merely was looking to put a new spin on some of the older material she feels 'still holds up'. 'New Spin' and 'New Statement' are 2 different things entirely, so 'Travelogue' will either excite or disappoint depending on the expectations YOU bring to it...as far as I'm concerned, Joni, Vince and the rest of the gang did their part marvelously. With JM's feelings about the industry, I'm surprised she bothered to finish out her contract at all, and I think we're lucky to see a new release , period paragraph! On tour for BSN, she said that 'we had so much fun doing this project, we decided to do another one'. Don't disappoint Joni by being shortsighted about her new CD. -Chris, enjoying my advance of Travelogue to the fullest, save 'Woodstock,' 'Bethlehem,' & 'Sex Kills', and even those are slowly growing on me. - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Nonesuch David Marine wrote: > Some gems like "The Dawntreader" are > nothing short of spectacular. and then Jerry wrote: > I have to agree with David. The Dawntreader has grown on me as being the > stellar track.. and now me: i heard slouching toward bethlehem yesterday on the radio and the arrangement is fantastic, imho. I am grateful that Joni has given us the gift of two CDs here and now. I admire her for doing covers of her own work...revisiting, playing , mixing old with new ideas/approach. of course these are not going to be exactly like the former renditions. She's grown, she's changed and no, her voice is not the *same*. Who's is?? I support her project completely and wish her the very best with it. Wish you all could have seen her...Joni was so excited in Toronto last year when she shared the samplings/demos. It was wonderful to be there, to witness her exuberance. Let's take it easy on her and perhaps take a more gentle approach to this new body of work...and be thankful that it's here at all. mags, feeling particularly blessed today . You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:14:09 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash Return-path: From: Warrenkeith91354@cs.com Full-name: Warrenkeith91354 Message-ID: <146.2456e4a.2afd63b2@cs.com> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:00:02 EST Subject: Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash To: WARREN901@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 122 hey gang ! thought you might enjoy this item from compuserve... Meanie! Joni Mitchell Talks Trash By Cathryn Conroy, CompuServe News Editor Here's the big takeaway from Joni Mitchell's bombshell interview with W magazine: She can't stand Madonna. New York Post Page Six gossip columnist Richard Johnson got an advance copy of the interview in which sweet Joni gets nasty. Real nasty. "Madonna has knocked the importance of talent out of the arena," Mitchell said in the W interview. "She's manufactured. She's made a lot of money and become the biggest star in the world by hiring the right people." Joni also doesn't much care for David Letterman, saying: "Letterman treats musicians like the armpit of the [entertainment] industry. He tags you on at the end [of his television show], never talks to you--while he talks to the dimmest actress." Page Six contacted the representatives of both Madonna and Dave to find out what they think, and they both said the exact same thing: "The feeling isn't mutual." Joni is on a rampage. She says she's leaving the music industry forever because the "business is repugnant to me" and "most corrupt." She DOES like David Geffen, whom she described as "almost like my mother...I'm fond of David. Though I don't know why." She accuses pop singers today of cheating. "The artists don't have to play anything. They can cheat, buy songs, and put their name on them, so they can build the illusion that they are creative," Joni told W. noticing increasing joni press, warren keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 19:55:11 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: travelogue I loved the new version of 'Otis and Marlena' previewed on Nonesuch site.It is a favourite of mine anyway and this new rendition really works, i particularly like the fact that she has kept the drum roll on the break of the chorus/hook it gives it a link back to the original version. Wasn't sure about listening to the album on the site,sort of wanted to wait for the album to arrive, but i just couldn't resist. Glad i listened though. In a book entitled 'A Firing Offence' by David Ignatius he describes one of the female characters as 'looking like Joni Mitchell'. I think he means beautiful. Hope you had a great day yesterday Joni,with lots more to come. Joe. NP: Moon At The Window Rachel Z ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:31:20 -0500 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Travelogue - First Impression I decided last night to celebrate Joni's birthday by listening to several of the new tracks from Travelogue (thanks, Moni!). I decided to listen to the songs in the sequence that Joni placed them on the CD. As such, I listened to Otis and Marlena through Slouching Towards Bethlehem. My first impressions were mostly favorable. Of the songs I listened to, You Dream Flat Tires was the biggest surprise. Joni has really transformed this song into a little gem. As far as the orchestration goes, I think this is a major improvement over BSN. The arrangements seem much more adventurous and diverse, Though I was a little disappointed with Amelia. Maybe this song was just too perfect in it's original form, but (at least after only one listening), this new version did very little for me. I thought all of the other songs were very nicely done, and I'm sure they will only improve with repeated listenings, expecially on my home stereo. I'm sure there will be people disappointed by this release, but hell, that's the story of Joni's life. My feeling is that whatever keeps Joni interested in creating music is just fine with me. Would I prefer her to come out with a masterpiece of all new material? Certainly! But given the choice of this, or nothing, I gladly, eagerly, and open-heartedly welcome this new release. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:41:05 -0800 From: "J. G." Subject: buzztone.com preview alternative Anyone else having trouble with the site Moni generously let us in one? I seem to be locked out. I can hear "Amelia" just fine today, but cannot get to the list... - -J _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:44:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC PC the election >I'm extremely disappointed and angry at the Democrats, too< me too, though i'm proud of californian's boxer & capps who stood up against the war...feinstein didn't & will never get another vote from me...as one who mostly votes democrat (not always) imo this was a defining moment... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:44:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Today in History: November 7 >1943: Joni was born in Fort MacLeod, Canada< happy belated birthday to joni...we are barely recovering from partying in your honor here in santa barbara! what a night! a 4 hour show & the heavy rains kept nobody away! (in fact the venue had to turn people away as we were sold out) we were honored that kakki & coyote rick came up to join us from los angeles & yael who came all the way from ann arbor to sing a song...hope you made it home safely kakki & rick... all the musicians were incredible & we were so blessed to have guitar great jeff pevar playing as well as jim messina telling his story of being the recording engineer when he was 18 years old...working with crosby on joni's demo before they did STAS... wow. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:44:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni's comments about Letterman a musician friend of mine who went on letterman said he was was really really nervous to be doing so as he felt letterman can be very intimidating too...warren zevon is a friend of dave's...dave is actually on zevon's cd my ride is here...& zevon has filled in for paul in the past...i agree that it was a cool thing for dave to give the whole show to zevon...i wish dave gave more talk time to the musicians too... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #471 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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