From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #455 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, November 1 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 455 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: November 1 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] thanks Brenda! (NJC) [vince ] Re: Estate tax.... short PC (NJC) [vince ] Re: Estate Tax and financial planning (NJC) [vince ] Taxes (NJC) [vince ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #322 [StDoherty@aol.com] bitches from Brussels njc [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Joni on politics...made in the USA...globalism NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: b*tches from Brussels njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JM on GMA and in RS [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Fw: njc save your parents money for youself, scam medicaid, alllegal [vince ] Re: Estate tax.... short PC (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: Estate Tax and financial planning (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: bitches from Brussels njc [colin ] Re: Joni on politics...made in the USA...globalism NJC [colin ] Covers, Volume 34 - Tricks AND Treats! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: November Birthdays [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: November Birthdays - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really [SCJoniGuy@a] Re: November Birthdays - njc [FMYFL@aol.com] re:Travelogue in UK ["joe farrell" ] Re: re:Travelogue in UK ["laurent Fonquerne" ] Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really ["Sybil Skel] Re: Travelogue in UK [Gertus@aol.com] Re: November Birthdays - njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really [Murphycopy@] mail call NJC [Deb Messling ] Joan Armatrading... [MJJones706@aol.com] Judy NJC ["William Chavez" ] the way we were, shell njc ["mack watson-bush" Subject: thanks Brenda! (NJC) That is cool, Brenda. The fact was hat the Defender was not in bankruptcy court, but was in probate court,, for trust interpretation. That the estate tax repeal had supporters amongst some African American congressional reps, that is certainly true. Thanks for your further words, Vince music@soulstreet.net wrote: > > Brenda wrote: > > > >> The Chicago Daily Defender, one of the oldest black daily newspapers > >> in the country, went into bankruptcy because of the burden imposed by > >> the estate tax. > > > > This simply is untrue. > > > > Totally untrue. > > > > It was certainly not my intention to mislead anyone. I have no first hand > knowledge of what happened to The Defender. The Defender was talked about > by at least one of the African-American supporters of the repeal (head of > the National Black Chamber of Commerce). Mary asked about those > supporters so I tried to answer her question with reasons I had seen or > heard sited by those supporters. > > I thought about using the words, "it's claimed" because I'm fully aware of > the plight of black newspapers and I didn't have time to verify the > statement, but having work to do and my own business to run, I was not as > careful as I could have been. > > I had no idea it would produce such a response..... > > I hope the original point isn't lost in all this - that there were > Democrats who supported the repeal ACTING in a manner that would be seen > as a supporting an agenda that is "perceived" to be Republican. > > Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:17:56 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Estate tax.... short PC (NJC) music@soulstreet.net wrote: > > Here are two more links - one written by the President of the National > Newspaper Association that talks about the estate tax generally and the > Defender specifically: > > http://www.naa.org/artpage.cfm?AID=2890&SID=1039 > > and one from Editor & Publisher > > http://www.targetmarketnews.com/EandPstory.htm > > Neither one of these is inherently religious or political as far as I can > tell. One mentions a gag order, so I'm wondering, was your office > involved with this specifically? Any public information on how the taxes > got paid? Or is the 3 or 4 million dollar tax bill referred to in these > articles nonexistent? > Again, the original assertion was that the Defender was in bankruptcy court, was was as I said simply untrue. The place that the estate tax has in the probate case is a matter of trust interpretation, or breaking the trust. Notice in the second article that a purchase offer was made which does not include all available properties... the point at which the Defender is sold is what actuates where the estate tax may come in. A part of the contention of some of the family was that the trust was set up poorly and should be broken because Northern mismanaged and proper trust establishment or management would have avoided estate tax at this generation of passing. In the alternative, it was argued that a purchase of all of the assets of the Defender would allow payment of all taxes due; it was the offer to purchase a part of the assets that left other debts unpaid, including tax. Not dealt with is in a properly managed estate, there might have been tax due but easily payable. Part of the probate action was on mismanagement of the business to create this situation. To place the blame for the Defender on the estate tax is akin to saying the Titanic sunk because it went too fast. Yes it did, but there were a lot of other factors - at night, sailing blindly, with steel that would lack tensile strength in cold water, and of course, in an iceberg belt and then there was the iceberg, as well as bulkheads built one deck too low. To isolate one factor of so many and say this is the cause, that is what I am pointing out. This was a very complex case with many, many, many facets. Depending on which one wanted to push, to push any one factor is to distort the case. And that lawyers and others with a stake in the outcome had a reason to spin on one factor and not all the factors, well, that is how it works! thanks, Brenda, for digging further on this! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:24:00 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Estate Tax and financial planning (NJC) music@soulstreet.net wrote: > > Vince, I think this comment about financial planning is really key. > > My great uncle passed away earlier this year. He was 92. He was > completely unwilling to talk with anyone about a will or anything else. > He was admittedly superstitious about discussing his death. His estate > was not insignificant - more than half a million dollars. > > In my own experience, the views he held are not uncommon among older black > folks. > > Exactly, Brenda! Now your uncles heirs paid no federal taxes on 500,000 because that is well below the amount needed to file a federal 706. Depending on his state of residence determined state estate tax - in Michigan there would have been done. A lot of people have your uncle's attitudes. It is sad because it can cost the heirs money. Of course federal estate tax, starts at the net of the estate, and given certain allowed expenses - the grandest cemetery marker you ever saw and some good sized expenses of administration - it is possible to get a larger estate under the limit. Hope your uncle had a will..,. but I have said, it is what people fail to do, or do on their own without legal expertise, that pays my salary! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:29:09 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: environmental issues njc kakki wrote: > Kate, > > Go to work in environmental or land use law in California. Oh my Gawd, you > may become a Republican after you see the real inside of it all. I am not > kidding. > not when it comes to drilling in the arctic or the clean up of super fund sites! Are the problems which you are seeing in environmental law the problems of those who desire the protection of the environment period, or, the often unhelpful nightmare of regulations and compliance documents that arise in many places in the bureaucracies, or other factors? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 04:41:42 -0500 From: vince Subject: Taxes (NJC) I like to pay taxes! I like my roads paved, my meat inspected,, my water pure, OSHA regulations in the workplace, a working coast guard, police protection, courts, the register of deeds office in operation, jails and prisons, rehab programs, food assistance for families and children who would otherwise starve, and the air regulated so that planes aren't flying into each other and that radio stations are assigned to separate frequencies. I do object to paying for Air Force One flying around the country ion campaign stops not being reimbursed by, in this case, the Republican national Committee. But that catty comment aside, I want what taxes can provide. The sneaky things that Bree and Kakki alluded to - that is a gripe of mine. In Michigan they passed a law that says that in deeds we must include language that says that the property may be near farmland, and farmland may have "associated odors." That was what they did for the Right to Farm, act. Still trying to figure out how that enhances the right to farm. What it did, with the full required language, is push every deed we do from one page to two pages. Not a big deal, but that increased the recording fee of every deed by $2.00. $2 is a pittance until you figure the literally tens of thousands of deeds recorded in the state every day... not a tax imposed, but money out of your pocket, that cumulatively adds up fast. Bree and Kakki, add these things to your list of complaints! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:40:39 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #322 In a message dated 11/1/2002 3:02:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I agree with you on these albums. The early Judy Collins were beautiful. I > used to own a copy of Golden Apples. Maybe I will get the cd with the first > > two albums. I think re the Joni albums- I liked all of them and some I love > > except those two horrors from the 80's. I keep saying it but can't believe > DED was her., The lyrics aren't good nor the music or the cover. But Joni > picked up again in the 90's and have loved some of her recent cds. You have > > good taste. > For the life of me I do't understand this - Dog Eat Dog is a fine album! But now even the cover is getting hit. Oh yeah didn't Rolling Stone give Joni the worst album title of the year for Hissing? Yeah that's about the music. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:39:42 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: bitches from Brussels njc Colin wrote: "Lieve reminded me we are going off to Brussels on Saturday to pick a bitch up from the airport there." and Jimmy replied: "LOL Colin !!! For new listers who don't know that you breed dogs, your sentence is kind of funny. :~) Of course we all know Lieve is the sweetest girl in the world." and Colin replied: " Lieve is BELGIAN which is what reminded me!!!!!" Well I must say, when I opened Colin's first message this morning, I had a really good giggle! I knew what he meant but could see the double meaning - well let's hear it for Belgian bitches! I hope you will find them the best, Colin! And Jimmy's sweet intervention was just too nice not to repeat, so there! In fact, this reminds me of something I've been thinking about before. Of course it's not right, for a lot of reasons, to be called a bitch. But in this often still sexist world, I've learnt to sometimes take pride in being called a bitch. Like having balls, I suppose. In certain environments (like very often the place where I work) if as a woman you're determined and stand up for what you think is right, you're called a bitch where a man would be called forceful or tough or professional. So a few times I have just smiled and thought "Well if that's what it takes, then I'd rather be a bitch than a doormat." It also reminds me of another little anecdote. I bought a house 10 years ago (luckily that long ago, before prices went mad). A few years later a (gay male) couple moved in, two numbers down the road. We became best of friends and again some time later, when they knew me well enough, one of them confessed that they had been interested in buying my house when I was buying it, but I got there first and the estate agent advised them not to even try to get it, because "there was this real hard nosed bitch who wanted to buy it"! Well I really appreciated them telling me, we had a good laugh about it, they had come to realise it just meant I was organised and determined and not likely to be fobbed off easily, but this was the first image they got of me, before we had even met! I know, I could have been angry with the guy who'd made the remark, but you know, I can't spend my life being angry about people's stupid prejudices. There is just so much stupidity and prejudice that you have to choose your fights wisely. That's also what I would say about the debate that went on some days ago about homophobia. Yes, if you look very closely, there's a lot of it. But let's start with trying to change the mind of the people who have really anti-gay sentiments, and regretfully there are many of them. If those wrongs could be righted, the rest of the silly little comments would disappear too. I don't want to have to worry about whether it was right or not for me to mention in the text above that my couple of neighbours are gay. Maybe it's not relevant to the story but to me it felt right. And I'd rather be called a bitch which to me says I know what I want and I'm standing on my own legs, than to hear comments like: "And how does your husband feel about you doing this-or-that" or "Doesn't your husband mind if you do so-and-so" - which just immediately gets my blood boiling! Gosh I'd better stop, I've been going off on a tangent and most of those things are so personal, they probably don't make much sense when posted on the list, it's the sort of stuff I'd rather discuss person to person to avoid misunderstandings. Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:05:54 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Joni on politics...made in the USA...globalism NJC Kate Bennett, with the story of her visit to the Chinese factory, made exactly the point I also made before. Colin then replied (to Kate's sentence: "yes, the wages are lower but so is the cost of living...by a lot...") > This is just a sop to our consciences, one i have ehard before. The fact is they may be paid well in comparison to being dirt poor but are still paid low and are still poor whyile we rich can buy what we want more cheaply at their expense. No matter how one dresses it up it still stinks. bw colin Sorry Colin, but I strongly disagree! I think you really need to distinguish (as Bob also said) between exploitative sweatshops and places in the 3rd world making products that may well be much cheaper (and even lead to closure of factories in our own country) which are actually benefiting the people there! If you have to wait until those people are earning what we are earning here, they simply will have lost their chance to compete! As you know, I am the proud owner of 2 of your wonderful sweaters, but even if I could afford more of them, I don't think that would help someone say in Peru making cheap sweaters, who now won't have anything to sell to me! OK, maybe the example is not good, maybe the Peruvian sweater was made by kids or in exploitative circumstances, and I WOULD like to know about it and would not buy them if I knew that was the case, but I am just saying you can't make such a generally sweeping statement as you did about Kate's example from China. You say " they may be paid well in comparison to being dirt poor but are still paid low" - my question is: what is LOW? There are no absolute standards of what is high or low. Comparing to our wages is pointless. Their economies have not reached that level, and what's worse, they never will if we refuse to buy the goods they now produce with lower wages! I know 20 or so years ago wages were much higher in Sweden than in Belgium where they were still much higher than in England. Does that mean Swedes should not have bought Belgian or English products? I think the real issue is, that in a way we have to be prepared, however tough it is, that if we buy e.g. Chinese products, we are indeed helping the Chinese economy and that can be at the price of some of our own economies. I see it as some levelling which is fair in the long run, even if it is painful. The people put out of work here in the West will get social benefits and will not starve such as the people in 3rd world countries would if they lost their job. I can only hope the thing will balance out in the end, with people in the West indeed finding other industries to specialise in, or maybe to all work less hours and spread the income out a bit more... And talking of which, I have to go and do some more work very urgently. Good grief, can someone please remind me that I don't have time to post? As I told some people at the Jonifest, the reason that I don't post is because I know that once I start, I won't be able to stop - so please help me to stop! Lots of love, Lieve. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:38:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: b*tches from Brussels njc In a message dated 11/1/2002 7:42:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, ReckersL@ebrd.com writes: > But in > this often still sexist world, I've learnt to sometimes take pride in being > called a bitch. The group Saffire, consisting of 3 very talented female musicians & songwriters, does a song called "Bitch With A Bad Attitude"...Gayle introduces it live by saying that in her mind "Bitch" stands for: Being In Total Control of Herself and therefore thanks those who refer to her as one. "You've sown a lot of bitch seeds, now it's harvest time!" :~) Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "How Many More Times" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 08:39:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JM on GMA and in RS In a message dated 11/1/2002 12:06:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bobsart48@aol.com writes: > Is this the show I saw where a guy from the audience asks Joni to marry him, > > and Harry Smith chimes in (on time) "Hey, wait a minute pal, get in line !" > ? > Or was that a different show ? > Yes indeed it is, Bob, and the video is included on our JMDL video trees. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:00:05 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Fw: njc save your parents money for youself, scam medicaid, alllegal kasey simpson wrote: > Vince, > Just how much SS did this man and woman pay that they > will never see? Social Security payments are capped, no one pays any additional over a certain dollar amount, somewhere - I think and I may be wrong but not I think by much - in the mid $60,000s of annual income. > How much tax have they poured into the system > that they will never see? How many years did they work and do > without so they could retire? They scam the system? Yes, they scam. What we are taking about here is Medicaid, not Social Security. They are able to shelter their assets and thus claim that they have no assets and receive Medicaid that is intended for the poor. It is all legal. Our office does this because it is legal. It is smart financial planning. But why shouldn't this couple have to pay their own medical expenses? Why should my tax dollars pay for their Medicaid benefits when they have the money sheltered to give to their heirs outside of the system? In other words, Medicaid is paid for the poor, and for those who have enough wealth to qualify by sheltering assets. Who is without Medicaid? The working poor, the working class, the lower middle class. > There wouldn't > be a system without them. But I guess they should keep giving to > the system, and paying the taxes, and their kids can pay the taxes > so we can fund more of the endless, mindless programs. No, Kasey, these people are getting a means tested benefit that they do not qualify for other than by sheltering income. If this were a poor couple getting extra benefits, they have been called "welfare queens." When the moderately wealthy and rich get extra benefits it is called "smart financial planning." Set your rhetoric aside, stop giving speeches, and consider: Who is without Medicaid? The working poor, the working class, the lower middle class. All we have to do is extend Medicaid to everyone, because EVERYONE does pay into it, it is just that the working poor and the working class do not get the benefit of what they have paid for. The solution? Give it to everyone. That is universal health care, a system I prefer to the current program of health care for the rich. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:59:53 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Judy C (njc) Bruce Kimerer wrote: > On another Judy note: Someone mentioned an album with her on solo piano > that's available on her website. I looked, but wasn't able to tell which one > it might be. Can someone tell me the title? It is Voices. A truly wonderful cd. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:20:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Estate tax.... short PC (NJC) vince said: > To place the blame for the Defender on the estate tax is akin to saying > the Titanic sunk because it went too fast. Yes it did, but there were a > lot of other factors - at night, sailing blindly, with steel that would > lack tensile strength in cold water, and of course, in an iceberg belt > and then there was the iceberg, as well as bulkheads built one deck too > low. To isolate one factor of so many and say this is the cause, that > is what I am pointing out. This was a very complex case with many, many, > many facets. Depending on which one wanted to push, to push any one > factor is to distort the case. > > And that lawyers and others with a stake in the outcome had a reason to > spin on one factor and not all the factors, well, that is how it works! > > thanks, Brenda, for digging further on this! > Thank you for providing some clarification. B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:24:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Estate Tax and financial planning (NJC) vince said: > Hope your uncle had a will..,. > Unfortunately, he did not and it's a big mess. I urge anyone following this thread who has not done some financial planning to please start, especially if you have children. The expense is minor compared to the cost that will be paid later. B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:44:08 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Estate Tax and financial planning (NJC) Brenda wrote: > > I urge anyone following this thread who has not done some financial > planning to please start, especially if you have children. The expense is > minor compared to the cost that will be paid later. > A big right on! especially if you have kids! without a will, the court will choose the guardian and conservator for your children, usually after a messy family fight between various relatives who are sure that you wanted *them* and not *those others* to raise the kids - plus your kids will get their money from your estate, wrongful death proceeds, whatever, when they turn 18, not the best age to turn a bucket of money over to kids. You'd be surprised how fast they can blow it. A little testamentary trust in your will can ensure that your kids do not get their money until they are 25, or 30, some more responsible age, We see a large number of kids who blow off high school because why do they have to work, they are getting $30,000 or $50,000 when they hit 18, they think they can a car and still be set for life! And none of those dead parents in those situations planned on dying, either. Brenda has given the best advice ever! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:54:23 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Fw: njc save your parents money for youself, scam medicaid, alllegal Social Security payments are capped, no one pays any additional over a certain dollar amount, somewhere - I think and I may be wrong but not I think by much - in the mid $60,000s of annual income. That would be per tax year, not life time. So how much life time did they put in? Yes, they scam. What we are taking about here is Medicaid, not Social Security. They are able to shelter their assets and thus claim that they have no assets and receive Medicaid that is intended for the poor. It is all legal. Our office does this because it is legal. It is smart financial planning. But why shouldn't this couple have to pay their own medical expenses? Why should my tax dollars pay for their Medicaid benefits when they have the money sheltered to give to their heirs outside of the system? No it isn't a scam. It's trying to keep the government from trying to take more of the money they earned. In other words, Medicaid is paid for the poor, and for those who have enough wealth to qualify by sheltering assets. Who is without Medicaid? The working poor, the working class, the lower middle class. Again, the poor wouldn't even have Medicaid if they had not supported system with their tax dollers. No, Kasey, these people are getting a means tested benefit that they do not qualify for other than by sheltering income. If this were a poor couple getting extra benefits, they have been called "welfare queens." When the moderately wealthy and rich get extra benefits it is called "smart financial planning." Read your own words here; the ones who put into the system are scamming; those who take extra are poor. Set your rhetoric aside, stop giving speeches, and consider: Who is without Medicaid? The working poor, the working class, the lower middle class. All we have to do is extend Medicaid to everyone, because EVERYONE does pay into it, it is just that the working poor and the working class do not get the benefit of what they have paid for. The solution? Give it to everyone. That is universal health care, a system I prefer to the current program of health care for the rich. I love how when you post it's to inform, and when I post it's rhetoric. Sort of like when you put in you scam, when you take out your poor. Kasey Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:13:48 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Taxes (NJC) Vince, Just want to know if you itemize or take a standard deduction? Itemizing lowers the tax burden, and since you like paying taxes I figure you must take the standard deductions. As for paved roads etc. I like them too, what I don't like paying for is all the pork in Washington, and local governments. Or like say replacing dishes taken from Air Force One. Kasey I like to pay taxes! I like my roads paved, my meat inspected,, my water pure, OSHA regulations in the workplace, a working coast guard, police protection, courts, the register of deeds office in operation, jails and prisons, rehab programs, food assistance for families and children who would otherwise starve, and the air regulated so that planes aren't flying into each other and that radio stations are assigned to separate frequencies. I do object to paying for Air Force One flying around the country ion campaign stops not being reimbursed by, in this case, the Republican national Committee. But that catty comment aside, I want what taxes can provide. The sneaky things that Bree and Kakki alluded to - that is a gripe of mine. In Michigan they passed a law that says that in deeds we must include language that says that the property may be near farmland, and farmland may have "associated odors." That was what they did for the Right to Farm, act. Still trying to figure out how that enhances the right to farm. What it did, with the full required language, is push every deed we do from one page to two pages. Not a big deal, but that increased the recording fee of every deed by $2.00. $2 is a pittance until you figure the literally tens of thousands of deeds recorded in the state every day... not a tax imposed, but money out of your pocket, that cumulatively adds up fast. Bree and Kakki, add these things to your list of complaints! VinceGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:21:08 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: bitches from Brussels njc > And I'd rather be called a bitch which to me says I know what I want and I'm > standing on my own legs, than to hear comments like: "And how does your > husband feel about you doing this-or-that" or "Doesn't your husband mind if > you do so-and-so" - which just immediately gets my blood boiling! You know Lieve, this happenes with gay couples too. the amount of times I have been asked'doesn't John mind?'. It astounds me. John wouldn't dream of telling me what I can do or who i can see, Likewise the other way around. One ting that has always annoyed me is the excuse women sometimes use 'my husband won't let me'. It annoys me on two fronts. 1. I tend to think it is not true and an excuse. OR 2. it is true and in that case what is she doing allowing him to make her decisions?! anyway it looks as if our trip is going to be in rain and wind. fun....not.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:26:00 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni on politics...made in the USA...globalism NJC Obviously I didn'make my point clear. i wasn't comparing wages. the people who are paid these low wages so we can have cheap goods are low paid no matter what their ecnonmy is like. they still ahev to struggle and more so than anyone here would have to. It is still not enough to live well off. In other words despite their 'high paid jobs' they are still poor by any standard. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:29:43 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Republicans, Democrats, Estate Tax (NJC) Kakki/Bree, I know we aren't supposed to do a 'me too' post, but I do agree with you. If I could only keep half the taxes I pay out I would be doing so much better. My relatives won't have to worry about my 'estate' there won't be any. Kasey Right on in a nutshell. I did sit down and figure out ALL the taxes I pay a few years ago and it was 70 fecking percent of my middle range income. And still some would brutally and unconsciously demand more from people instead of trying to find ways to reduce the need for taking more of average wage owners earnings. How much of the actual money finds its way to the programs demanding it and how much just goes to support the bureaucracy? It is appalling but many people will not see it until they really add it all up. Kakki > I think if your average american taxpayer had to write a weekly check out to > Uncle Sam for their taxes...sin taxes...gasoline....payroll..consumption..on > and on...there would be such a revolt unlike we have never seen in this > country. Confiscating and distributing more and more of ones money is a > scary thing to me!! Thousands and thousands of tax laws/codes... THEY don't > want to simplify them because then people would get an idea of what > percentage they are really "giving" their government. Fecking oppressive is > right!!! > > BreeGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:32:38 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Joni on politics...made in the USA...globalism NJC That is the case in many counties, even the U.S. We have a class called the working poor, a class I attend daily. Kasey Obviously I didn'make my point clear. i wasn't comparing wages. the people who are paid these low wages so we can have cheap goods are low paid no matter what their ecnonmy is like. they still ahev to struggle and more so than anyone here would have to. It is still not enough to live well off. In other words despite their 'high paid jobs' they are still poor by any standard.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:38:35 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: Re: November Birthdays Bob contributed: 'November 7: Joni Mitchell (59) Mary Travers of Peter, Paul and Mary (65) Johnny Rivers (60)' HMMM. I didn't know Joni's birthday, and didn't know she is a Scorpio. Add to the November list: November 12 Neil Young Me Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:37:18 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers, Volume 34 - Tricks AND Treats! 100 % made in America, in my own sweatshop! ;~) Actually, the compilation is, but the covers, as always, come from all over the world! And it would not have come together without the help of fellow JMDLer's: Helga Loetgen Jim Johanson Brenda Walker Here's what's on this month's installment - like I said, I think it's a pretty enjoyable mix! 1. Anne Runolfsson - River: Really nice start to this volume, Anne has a lovely voice and mixes in "The First Noel" at the end. 2. Orville Johnson - I Don't Know Where I Stand: A unique instrumental, Orville is an accomplished dobro player (dobroist?) and this is a nice 'rootsy' version. 3. Earl Scruggs Revue - Both Sides Now: This is actually Randy playing his instrumental arrangement in a live setting, and the addition of the violin is really nice! 4. John McLaughlin - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: Another instrumental, if you'll recall John was involved with the original Mingus sessions, so somewhere is the recording with Joni's vocal added. And those of you who know John know that his theory is "why play 4 notes when 100 will do?" ;~) 5. My Flexible Friends - You Dream Flat Tires: LOVE it! A unique trio from Germany, voice, bass & drums. Really propulsive! 6. Led Zeppelin - Woodstock (live): Taken from the "Earl's Court '75 Bootleg", this somewhat muddy recording features Plant, Page & the zeps jamming and singing Woodstock lyrics over a riff that would later appear on their "Presence" LP. 7. Mack White - Both Sides Now: I'm sure that Mack & his Mom are very proud of this one. 8. Prince - A Case of You: One of my "Sweet 16"! We have included an abbreviated live version of Prince performing ACOY before, here he presents it in the lush studio setting that the other recording only suggested - has to be heard to be believed! 9. ? - Big Yellow Taxi: I downloaded this one from the band's website, then promptly misplaced the info about who it was! All I know is that it's an Australian band playing in a club setting. If anyone recognizes the group, chime in! 10. Gail Ann Dorsey - Passion Play (When All The Slaves Are Free): Another unreleased 'live in the radio studio' recording, very true to Joni's arrangement and vocal stylings, and a personal favorite of mine from NRH. Thanks Brenda!! 11. Young Lovers - Both Sides Now: What would a Covers volume be without a bit 'o cheese? 12. Kohl, Roane, & Fitzgerald - Chelsea Morning: Nothing cheesy about this one! A beautiful jazz trio with a fresh an lovely arrangement. Ony of my favorite covers of "Chelsea"! 13. Big Yellow Taxi - Big Yellow Taxi 14. Big Yellow Taxi - Sunny Sunday 15. Big Yellow Taxi - Both Sides Now 16. Big Yellow Taxi - Chelsea Morning 17. Big Yellow Taxi - Black Crow: What more can be said about Big Yellow Taxi, the Joni project from Denmark? Henning's guitar work is solid and clean, Christina's voice is angelic and superb. These are demos that Henning shared with me when I first discovered his website & project. Seems like a long time ago already... 18. David West - Woodstock: From the "Pickin' On" series, this one actually comes from a CSNY tribute CD. If your grass is blue, this will be a favorite - - nice pickin' all around. 19. Tom Northcott - Night In The City: Not a very exciting version, frankly, from a Canadian folksinger who if you didn't know any better you'd swear it was a female vocalist... 20. USAF Band with The Falconaires - Both Sides Now: OK, it sounds like it would be cheese, but his one ends us with a very nice big band style arrangement and features some nice flute soloing. Makes me want to dance with Miss Bunny at the USO dance! So there it is, for you who may still have interest in my obsession/project...contributors & subscribers, your copies are on the way, please excuse my tardiness. And I'll be giving one of these puppies away, so stay tuned! Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "Baby Come On Home" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:57:23 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: November Birthdays In a message dated 11/1/2002 10:35:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, kimerer@taconic.net writes: > 'November 7: > > Joni Mitchell (59) > Mary Travers of Peter, Paul and Mary (65) > Johnny Rivers (60)' > > HMMM. I didn't know Joni's birthday Yes, it will be Joni's birthday next Thursday. I can't remember if it was 2 or 3 years ago, but her birthday was chosen for many of the lurkers to post.......even if it's a simple Happy Birthday Joni. It was pretty successful if I recall correctly, and I think it would be a good idea for this year. So come on out you folks we never get to hear from and introduce yourself. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:18:54 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: November Birthdays - njc Jimmy writes: << It was pretty successful if I recall correctly, and I think it would be a good idea for this year. So come on out you folks we never get to hear from and introduce yourself. >> Hi. My name is Bob and I am a Taurus. I share my birthday with Jordan Knight, Trent Reznor, Enya, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bob Saget, Dennis Hopper, Maureen O'Sullivan and the Ayatollah Khomeini. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:43:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really Now the challenge is...connect the below folks to Joni six-degrees style. Some will be easy and direct, some will be so tough that maybe even Hell won't be able to! Bob NP: Paul Westerberg, "Eyes Like Sparks" (in which Paul does Jagger/Richards better than they do!) > November 1: > > Lyle Lovett (45) > > November 2: > > k.d. lang (41) > > November 3: > > Lulu (54) > > November 4: > > Yanni (48) > Sean "Puff Daddy"/"P. Diddy" Combs (33) > > November 5: > > BRYAN Adams (43) and RYAN Adams (28) ! ! ! (What are the chances of > THAT!) > Ike Turner (71) > Art Garfunkle (61) > Peter Noone (55) > Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead (31) > > November 6: > > Glenn Frey (54) > Corey Glover of Living Color (38) > > November 7: > > Joni Mitchell (59) > Mary Travers of Peter, Paul and Mary (65) > Johnny Rivers (60) > > November 8: > > Patti Page (75) > Bonnie Raitt (53) > Rickie Lee Jones (48) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:23:06 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: November Birthdays - njc The bad boy Bob writes: > Hi. My name is Bob and I am a Taurus. I share my birthday with Jordan > Knight, Trent Reznor, Enya, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bob Saget, Dennis Hopper, > Maureen O'Sullivan and the Ayatollah Khomeini. > Actually I thought you and Maureen O'Sullivan were twins :~).........and for fun I six degreed you with Joni. Bob Murphy, shares a birthday with Maureen O'Sullivan. Maureen married director John Farrow. They had a daughter, Mia Farrow. Mia married Frank Sinatra. Frank sang Joni's "Both Sides Now" on his "Cycles" album Oh I could also tied in Mia with "RoseSmuphy's Baby" :~) Happy Friday! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:02:23 -0000 From: "joe farrell" Subject: re:Travelogue in UK I believe it is planned to release Travelogue in the UK on19 November. So eighteen days to go and counting. Looking forward to hearing Otis and Marlena,as well as all the others obviously,but i love this song and i think it will sound superb with a full orchestral backing. We shall see. Regards, Joe Farrell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:51:01 +0100 From: "laurent Fonquerne" Subject: Re: re:Travelogue in UK In France it's planned to release it on november 26th (source : http://www.fnac.com) Could I wait one week more ? Laurent. (lolo) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe farrell" To: Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: re:Travelogue in UK > I believe it is planned to release Travelogue in the UK on19 November. So > eighteen days to go and counting. > > Looking forward to hearing Otis and Marlena,as well as all the others > obviously,but i love this song and i think it will sound superb with a full > orchestral backing. > > We shall see. > > Regards, > > Joe Farrell. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:27:36 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really >Now the challenge is...connect the below folks to Joni six-degrees >style. >Some will be easy and direct, some will be so tough that maybe >even Hell >won't be able to! > >Bob >November 1: > Lyle Lovett (45) Ok, I'll take the first one Lyle Lovett married to Julia Roberts in a movie "Steel Magnolias" with Darryl Hannah who lived with Jackson Browne who used to sleep with Joni Mitchell Ta Da Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:28:31 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Travelogue in UK In a message dated 01/11/02 06:02:46 GMT Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:27:53 +0000 (GMT) > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= > Subject: Re: Travelogue in UK > > I have heard nothing about it being released in the UK but if you go to play. > com they do it for 16.99 delivered. > > Just a tip > > Jamie Zoob Hot tip, Jamie. Many thanks - I've ordered mine. It says 18th Nov is release day. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:41:40 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: November Birthdays - njc >Jimmy writes: > ><< It was pretty successful if I recall correctly, and I think it would be >a >good idea for >this year. So come on out you folks we never get to hear from and >introduce >yourself. >> > >Hi. My name is Bob and I am a Taurus. I share my birthday with Jordan >Knight, >Trent Reznor, Enya, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bob Saget, Dennis Hopper, Maureen >O'Sullivan and the Ayatollah Khomeini. > --Bob LOL..bob..ok i'm a twin..I share my b-day with marilyn monroe..bob hope....I'll leave it at that. (maybe it's just the month of June we have in common) Bree a k a rebecca a k a sybil... _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:52:06 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: November Birthdays - njc Bree, So you're a twin? What is Rebecca, and Sybil? Any more personalities you're hiding?;) Kasey LOL..bob..ok i'm a twin..I share my b-day with marilyn monroe..bob hope....I'll leave it at that. (maybe it's just the month of June we have in common) Bree a k a rebecca a k a sybil... _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.aspGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:32:11 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: interesting november birthdays near joni's - njc, really Bob Muller writes: << connect the below folks to Joni six-degrees style >> I'll take Bonnie Raitt . . . Bonnie went to the same Quaker prep school as Relayer, who is on the JMDL! (And I am getting together with one of that school's teachers tonight.) Or even easier, Bonnie recorded "That Song About the Midway" by Joni . . . which is featured on Muller's fantastic "Sweet Sixteen" Joni covers compilation. Have a great weekend, everybody. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:26:05 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: mail call NJC If anyone sent me a personal email today, please re-send, as my anti-spam software malfunctioned and I lost a bunch of email. Thanks!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/02 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:06:46 EST From: MJJones706@aol.com Subject: Joan Armatrading... Hello! I am a 24 year old Joni fan, and in the past couple of years, I've also grown to love the music of laura nyro and joan armatrading. I recently completed my collection of Laura Nyro CDs with Mother's Spiritual, but I'm having trouble finding (even on ebay) some Joan Armatrading titles. Can anyone help me with copies (even burned ones) of Joan's "Back to the Night" "To the Limit" or "Steppin' Out." I have all three of them on Vinyl, but have no record player at the moment, and I would rather have CDs anyway. Thanks for all your help and a great listserv! MJ from GA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:10:40 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Judy NJC >Secret Gardens is one of my favorite Judy penned songs. Pure >perfection on >the piano. I Remember Sky is oft performed by great >singers. It was >written by Stephen Sondheim for his rarely done >Evening Primrose. >Jerry, just loving this thread If you want a great version of "Secret Garden", Get the CD where she does all her own songs with only her voice and piano. Usually available only in book stores or her website. On "Secret gardens" she does a spoken intro(reads a letter sent to her mother by her grandmother when she was a little girl)then goes right into the song. I usually hate spoken word stuff but this was brilliant! Will _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:51:10 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: the way we were, shell njc anyone else notice the amazing similarity to the music from the commercial (with the island and the birds) to the music from the film? everytime i see it, i am taken to the boat where hubble reminisces about the best years. 46,47..... mack ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #455 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)