From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #449 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 30 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 449 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni on politics NJC [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Joni on politics NJC ["kakki" ] personal and political NJC [Yael Harlap ] eat the rich NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: NJC Linda Ronstadt [] Re: eat the rich NJC ["kakki" ] Fw: NJC Political ["kasey simpson" ] Fw: eat the rich NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Fw: Joni on politics NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Big Yellow Taxi - the group [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:31:46 EST From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on politics NJC In a message dated 10/29/02 9:23:27 PM, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > I think even if all Republicans, who seemed to be blamed by some people for > all the evils in the world, were all killed and turned into Soylent Green > for people to eat, and their clothing taken and redistributed, would this > solve all the injustice and inequity in the world? > well, it would be a start! pass the salt, please...but you can keep the clothes... :) now now, let's play nice! ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:23:12 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Joni on politics NJC I knew as I was writing it that someone come back and say exactly that. Peace and love and all, Kakki > > I think even if all Republicans, who seemed to be blamed by some people for > > all the evils in the world, were all killed and turned into Soylent Green > > for people to eat, and their clothing taken and redistributed, would this > > solve all the injustice and inequity in the world? > > > > well, it would be a start! pass the salt, please...but you can keep the > clothes... :) > > now now, let's play nice! > > ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:41:40 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: personal and political NJC Guess who is LOVING the vegetable conversation? Not because I love veggies (they're good) but because I love thinking about social-political issues (ya think?). Hell said: >It depends entirely on the motives of the person involved. If Bob is >choosing between zucchini and summer squash on the basis of where it was >picked, and whether the workers picking the vegetables have been taken >advantage of etc., etc. then yes, the choice is political. But if he's >choosing simply on the basis of flavour, ie. he prefers zucchini to squash, >and ignores those other factors, then that choice has no political motive >whatsoever. It's simply a matter of taste. It may not have a political MOTIVE but it does have political implications and CONSEQUENCES. so even though it is a very personal act, it has broader ramifications. if anyone chooses to think that their actions have no implications, that simple and basic choices are only their own personal and individual choices, they are making a choice right there, as far as i am concerned, to *ignore* the ramifications of their actions. as brilliant howard zinn said: "You can't be neutral on a moving train." you may think you are being neutral by not holding any particular opinion on an issue, by not making your own personal movement, but the train is moving and you are moving with it unless you are actively moving some other way. do i think about every outfit i wear and every vegetable i eat? not really, though to be honest i *do* think about it every time i choose what grocery store to shop in (usually Whole Foods, which isn't environmentally and socially any better than any other chain supermarket - politically i want to shop at the farmer's market and the local co-op but sometimes i am swayed by convenience...) and when i find myself shopping for clothes. and choosing not to think about those things doesn't make anyone less involved in their propogation. - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:44:21 -0500 From: Yael Harlap Subject: eat the rich NJC Kakki wrote: >(by the way, who did >people blame for all the evil in the world before Republicans came into >being relatively few years ago in the historical scheme of things?) the rich! and the republicans weren't always 'the rich' but they certainly are now. (and NO that doesn't mean there aren't rich democrats and NO that doesn't mean there aren't working class republicans, but anecdotal evidence does NOT make a generalization untrue). - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:57:38 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: NJC Linda Ronstadt I also like Linda Ronstadt's FRENESI album which finds her re-treading her CANCIONES DE MI PADRE repertoire but this time with calypso and other indigenous art-form musical cadences. I like the album and her pristine voice floats on the dance-like musical tapestry. The first songs I heard of Linda was "Blue Bayou" and in the early 80s, her "Hurt So Bad" was an anthem in radio stations. Joseph in Manila np: Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell "Dida" > btw.... > > was noticing the thread about Linda ronstadt. Her album Get Closer was > released in 1982, the follow up to the Mad Love album. Then, after > that, was the Nelson Riddle albums. Thought I would clarify that for > someone who posted that Get Closer was her first pop album after the > albums of stadards she recorded. > > James in Urbana > > now playing Joni Mitchell - Woodstock (Shadows and Light version) > > Blue, songs are like tattoos, You know I've been to sea > before, Come and anchor me, Or let me sail away.... > > "Blue" written by Joni Mitchell > > http://www.geocities.com/thebleachboi/home.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:05:25 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: eat the rich NJC Yikes - The richest people in America according to the yearly lists that I read in Forbes and Vanity Fair are overwhelmingly Democrats. 99% of all of the media and business and entertainment moguls and artists listed are. So where do I find the list of the rich Republicans? Are the far richer Democrats exempt from blame because of their political party? Or are they exempt as long as they give money to the Democrat party? Kakki > the rich! > and the republicans weren't always 'the rich' but they certainly are now. > > (and NO that doesn't mean there aren't rich democrats > and NO that doesn't mean there aren't working class republicans, > but anecdotal evidence does NOT make a generalization untrue). > -yael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 01:05:38 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: NJC Political Paul, Please read that post again. I did not say any of that. I forwarded an article and said because most of it was written by liberal democrats it may show a trend at the polls. Kasey - ----- Original Message ----- From: PAUL PETERSON Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 5:51 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC Political Re: Kasey Simpson's Post October 28 you say the left has lost its moral bearings. Yet you do not indicate your knowledge of the crimes committed by the west against the rest of the world in the years since WW2. Our affluence and freedom is dependent on the poverty and enslavement of much of the rest of the world. No one denies the horrors of the Iraqi regime. The issue is whether invasion, war, destruction and death is our only option. If we could wait out the Soviet empire why can't e wait out Sadam Hussein? Further - why are the hawks so sure that the world after an invasion of Iraq will be safer than the world is now? There are reasonable arguments that such an invasion will only worsen the present situation. There's nothing knee-jerk about the decision to contain Iraq. I believe that those who accept the naive notion that such an invasion will make us safer have lost their moral bearings.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 01:27:04 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: eat the rich NJC Oh Kakki you beat me to this one. I was just now trying to find an old article I read. It listed the 20 richest politicians and only 3 were republicans. I can't find the article now, but I'll keep looking. The article was really about the money they made after getting to Washington. It was really interesting reading. Kasey Yikes - The richest people in America according to the yearly lists that I read in Forbes and Vanity Fair are overwhelmingly Democrats. 99% of all of the media and business and entertainment moguls and artists listed are. So where do I find the list of the rich Republicans? Are the far richer Democrats exempt from blame because of their political party? Or are they exempt as long as they give money to the Democrat party? Kakki > the rich! > and the republicans weren't always 'the rich' but they certainly are now. > > (and NO that doesn't mean there aren't rich democrats > and NO that doesn't mean there aren't working class republicans, > but anecdotal evidence does NOT make a generalization untrue). > -yaelGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 02:13:51 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Joni on politics NJC Kakki, I don't believe everything is political, however I will concede that all actions could have political ramifications. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I don't believe if I buy jeans that I openly support child labor. Nor do I believe not buying them will stop child labor. The choice to buy or not buy for me is price. I for one had my first job at 11, and it was picking peaches, and apples for ten cents a peck. I hate peaches to this day. But I liked the small amount of money I got at the end of the week. I've also worked stocking shelves at the local stop and shop. I've never been ashamed of any honest work I've done, and I've never refused honest work when I needed a pay check. For a while I worked one full time job and two part time jobs. The point is where do people get the idea all Americans are lazy? Or that all republicans are rich? If I support a democrat because I like his views am I a democrat? What if I vote for a democrat for one thing and a republican for another? I believe the majority of Americans are smart enough to look beyond patriotism and see the facts, as they perceive them to be. Not supporting Bush doesn't make anyone less of a patriot, nor does supporting Bush make anyone a drooling lump of mindless flesh. Kasey Mags wrote: > Point well made. I agree one hundred percent. Too bogged down to cite examples, however, everyone's doing a >fine job articulating so I will lay down my "me too" and leave it at that. Well, I understand now more what was meant but it wasn't clear at all to me before. What I wonder is what are we as individuals supposed to do about it? Boycott all food and clothing? Feel unending guilt on a daily basis? I think even if all Republicans, who seemed to be blamed by some people for all the evils in the world, were all killed and turned into Soylent Green for people to eat, and their clothing taken and redistributed, would this solve all the injustice and inequity in the world? (by the way, who did people blame for all the evil in the world before Republicans came into being relatively few years ago in the historical scheme of things?) Here's another side of worker exploitation - the migrants who pick the harvest here in California (where a large amount of the produce for the U.S. is grown) are breaking down our border every day to get in. Their government is offering them nothing. Many studies show that most of the wages they make here are sent back home to Mexico or Guatamala or other countries and in fact, contribute substantially to their economy at home. Most all of them are making at least minimum wage by law, just the same as myself and many others have done when they started out working. I personally know three people, one a former boss, one a former boyfriend, and one a best friend. whose parents came from Mexico to work the farms here. They only worked in the farms a few years and very quickly went on to build their own successful, independent businesses. Their children all became professionals and very successful in one generation. Because of their minority status, all were given fully paid scholarships to top universities. In California, there are numerous social welfare programs to help them. They get free medical care, assisted housing, food stamps, preferential housing and business grants and loans and many other benefits to help them. In the meantime, people like me, just the dumb "white bread bourgeous" goes to work every day and lawfully pays my taxes that help people such as the migrant families without protesting and demonstrating. I won't feel guilt from people who are far better off then me financially trying to lay it on me. KakkiGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 01:52:10 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi - the group And the party JUST ended! It is more of a treat for me to be able to play these tunes for someone so pure with a voice of a angel... Or a queen... But no... Maybe a princess. Happy Fecking Birthday! and welcome to the REAL world.... We've only just begun to play.... Paz (getting ready for a week from 'ell with 'alloween upon us) on 10/29/02 3:43 PM, Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup at christi@dsr.kvl.dk wrote: >> i've been listening to the Big Yellow Taxi CD - its GORGEOUS. My favorite >> track is Dawntreader (have we ever analyzed these lyrics? i could use it). > > Thank you, David, I'm so glad you like it! I sang Dawntreader a couple of > times > before I got the right feel and I really enjoy singing that song. One of my > faves of all. I won't start the analysing process, though. I'm still not > hooked > up with my computer - am in fact going nuts about it - so I have limited time > on here...hopefully that'll soon change. > >> Black Crow and Sunny Sunday are also superlative. > > You just picked my two other favorites! I'm lucky to get to sing lots with > Michael playing along these days...what a treat! > > Thanks again for the comment! > > Christina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 01:56:18 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: chat time! NJC CHAT?!?!?!?! That was great to hear from you tonight altho I didn't get to talk much. But HEY it wasn't MY birthday now was it??? It was great to hear from you tho. Have a great trip to LA! Love Paz on 10/29/02 7:09 PM, Yael Harlap at yael@pixelmajik.com wrote: > hey kidz- > > i don't know if you-all have been chatting but i haven't chatted with > anyone for AGES. > i'm procrastinating packing for my LA trip tomorrow, > and waiting for my orangey nail polish to dry... > come meet me in da chat room if you feel inclined! > > i'll linger in there until my nails are totally dry. :-) > -yael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #449 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)