From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #446 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 28 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 446 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Judy, Linda, Billie, Tori NJC ["William Chavez" ] Re: Linda and all (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Today in History: October 28 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Linda R. NJC ["William Chavez" ] Linda R. ["William Chavez" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #444 ["William Chavez" ] Re: HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) [Mags N Brei ] NJC Cagno tours & does "River" [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Mondlock & Sharp (was Art's new thread) NJC ["Paul Castle" ] More Jonifest Love [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] A very nice game [mosalm ] Game?? ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: trivia question NO PRIZE NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni's vocal range [Engwall57@aol.com] Re: Joni's vocal range ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Karla Bonoff NJC (shameless plug!) [Scott Price ] Re: Joniphobic?, njc now ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Political NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Game?? njc [Catherine McKay ] 1987 Benefit ["Laurent Olszer" ] art's cd njc ["Kate Bennett" ] happy birthday njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni & baby, 100% jc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Fw: Joniphobic?, njc now ["kasey simpson" ] RE: Joniphobic? ["Jerry Notaro" ] Joni's voice on STAS vs. next few; "Moon ... Harsh Mistress"; Playboy poll ["Timothy Spong" ] Re: Bush/Blair NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni's voice on STAS vs. next few; [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Bush/Blair NJC [colin ] RE: Joniphobic?, njc now ["patrick leader" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:04:38 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Judy, Linda, Billie, Tori NJC > I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is >tops >for me >Which album is this on? Judy's version of "Moon is a harsh Mistress" is on the album called 'Judith'. Readily available because the popular "Send in the Clowns" was on the same LP. I can definitely recommend some Judy albums if you are interested. I have everything she has ever done. I thinks she is increadible. Her writing is so good and complex because she has studied the best(Mitchell, Dylan and Cohen) and to that she has added her classical musical training. The combination makes a kind of music that is all her own. Listening to some of those early Judy albums makes me think I sitting under a tree in some ancient feudal country. Class, Total Class! There is a CD out that is just Judy's voice and her piano playing. On this CD she does only her own compositions. The piano playing is out of this world! It is available through her web site. Worth every penny! >I think Linda (along with most every singer in C&W) owes a lot to >Patsy. Linda loves Patsy but what ever you do, don't call her a C& W singer. You're lucky if you walk away with just a slap! For some reason she takes great offense to this. I've seen her be down right vicious in some interviews(too vicious to imply that the writer had anything to do with it). On TV too! I will give her this much, she is usually in the right. >I'm saying that the slim, doe-eyed, Cinderella-ensnared-by-drugs >character >that she played wasn't much like the real Billie Holiday. I think Billie Holiday herself has much to blame for all the inaccuracies because she rarly told the truth about her own life. Her autobiografy is well know to be riddled with more fantasy than fact. It was not till really recent probing into records that we found out the truths about her life. Some things found out about her life as a baby and small child she may not have even been aware of herself. Her life parralel that of another great interpretive singer. The main difference is that Janis Joplin wanted everything to be know(after she was dead). Buried Alive in the Blues is a great read even if you don't like Janis. I remember cringing through the chapters. I think Janis expected to die young. >I do think Tori is talented but her lyrics are often too obtuse for me. That is a major problem with Tori, you know she probably saying something profound, you just don't know what! As if breast feeding a baby pig wasn't enough indication that she was out there. Those preacher's daughters! A lot of them end up wacked for some reason(no offense). >I bought a Judy Collins cd a while back called 'Maids and Golden >Apples' Mark, did you say you were an owner of "Maids and Golden Apples" or a PROUD owner of "Maids and Golden Apples"? I NEED to hear you say the right way! Please!?!? Will _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:09:52 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Pazfest >Pazfest demonstrates that even if Joni had never sang or played any musical >instruments in public, her song writing alone would >have given her genius >status. DITTO!!!!!!!! Will-Eventhough I don't own Pazfest I know what your trying to say. I guess I need to get this CD twofer. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:28:45 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Linda and all (njc) "I don't think I've ever heard anybody do Souther or Bonoff like Linda." i like linda, but much prefer souther & bonoff doing their songs to linda (hi kakki & julius!) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:28:02 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 28 1998: Joni performed in Detroit. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981028.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/RoadAgainDetroit1098.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:28:01 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Linda R. NJC >"Hasten Down the Wind' being a close third. I think this was a very personal album for Linda, when ever you get too personal you risk losing some listeners(not always). There aren't as many sing-a-longs here. I bet you it's one of Linda's favorites and mine too. "Lose Again, Lo Siento Mi Vida, Hasten and Try Me Again" these are songs that can make you cry. Will >Linda's verion of 'I Will >Always Love You' puts Whitney to shame In a silent whisper "Linda sings this song better than Dolly!" Sorry Dolly, I hope nobody heard that. It's one of those things I've thought for years but couldn't bring myself to say. Will _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:34:57 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Linda R. >Kakki alluded to the Stone Poneys. I have the album Different Drum and >'Long, Long Time' is on it. Was it remade for 'Silk Purse?' Diferent Drum the album is a compilation album of early material including the title track DD. It originally was released on Silk Purse(funny album cover). Will _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 03:46:55 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #444 >I am a witness that this government under Bush and Giuliani did not do >enough to protect us. I usually try and stay away from political comments but hear goes. I'm definitely not a big Bush fan but I hope you're not insinuating that Clinton would have done any better in preventing 9-11. I don't think any president could have prevented 9-11. While both presidents may have some positive points, for the most part they both suck in my opinion. I don't intend to hurt anybodies feelings with that comment but its just my honest opinion. Will _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access for only $21.95/month. Try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:24:21 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) In a message dated 10/27/02 11:42:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpazz@directvinternet.com writes: > Happy Birthday Julius!!! > Yes Julius, you're one of the kindest, warmest, intelligent, (and a zillion other superlatives) people I know. I'm raising a glass of Veuve Clicquot in honor of your birthday. xo Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 05:19:48 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) happy birthday fellow scorpion! may all your dreams come true. love, MagsnBrei You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:05:24 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: trivia question NO PRIZE NJC dsk wrote: > How about Michael Foot? Don't know what he looks like though. > > Debra Shea > i wish I'd never bloody asked now! I asked John the answer before I worte the question( him being an historian). Now I am not sure he got the he got the answer right! It was either Kinnock or Foot. I thought it was Kinnock and so did John. I think it wasa Foot when thatcher first won in 79. oh and it is easy to see why thatcher got 111 years before her party ousted her-here we elect a party not a person. Whoever is leading the party becomes PM. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:30:50 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Cagno tours & does "River" Hi all, Please bear with me...playing catch-up after a FANTASTIC weekend traveling traveling traveling... Gregg, this is GREAT news - although River to me is not necessarily a "Christmas Song" per se, I ALWAYS celebrate a recording of it! I also enjoyed your "Present Moment Days" cd this weekend as well as your Jonifest set. If I haven't said so, it was a real JOY to sing "Long Ago..." with you & Claud. Bob NP: Bobby "Blue" Bland, "Farther Up The Road" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:16:34 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Mondlock & Sharp (was Art's new thread) NJC Bob(Murphy) wrote: >Garfunkel has been writing poetry for many years and >he was teamed with two songwriters to turn his words >into the music on this new album. Although I didn't see him, Buddy Mondlock toured the UK last year, playing at The Borderline in London in July. Here's what I wrote in 'Across the Pond' - >>> Buddy Mondlock http://www.buddymondlock.com Buddy is a top Nashville writer whose songs have been covered by the likes of Nanci Griffith http://nanci-griffith.com, Joan Baez http://www.joanbaez.com and Janis Ian http://www.janisian.com. His latest album, 'Poetic Justice' includes guest artists Guy Clark, http://www.guyclark.com/, Ellis Paul http://www.EllisPaul.com and Nanci Griffith, who says "Buddy represents the best of the new generation of singer-songwriters in folk music....he is one of my favorite new writers", whilst Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul & Mary http://www.peterpaulandmary.com/, who recorded his song 'The Kid' on their recent 'Lifelines' album, says, "with writers like Buddy around I don't think we need to worry about the future of folk music!" As to Mia http://www.maiasharp.com - found this on her site - "A song called "A Home" that I wrote with my dad, Randy Sharp is on this new album [Dixie Chicks - Home] and the Chicks kick its butt." Her dad, Randy http://www.randysharp.ws/about.htm has written songs for Linda Ronstadt, Jennifer Warnes, Edgar Winter and just about every country act you've ever heard. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:22:43 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC Step right up - everyone's a winner... <> Not quite there YET, Mary! ;~) #925 will be up to my successor to assemble and distribute. If we do some quick calculations, given the average of 31 Joni covers/year & 20 per cd, Volume 925 will be issued in (give or take a few months) the year 2573. Of course, by then people will have chips in their head and will be able to receive music automatically or something. As for my humble efforts, I'll be releasing #34 for November, and am currently collecting and assembling #39. Just a handful away from finishing that one. And I must say, after having given it a couple spins in the last week, #34 is a pretty solid collection. Bob NP: Sam & Dave, "Soul Man" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:38:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Stereophile magazine The November Stereophile magazine lists 40 essential albums since 1962. Joni did not make the list, but Court and Spark did make the Honorable Mention list. Of interest of those included in the Essential 40: The White Album ( my personal and always #1 pick) Blood on the Tracks Are You Experienced Thriller Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Tapestry Willie Nelson's Stardust Dark Side of the Moon Exile on Main Street Wayne Shorter: Speak No Evil Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:43:43 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: More Jonifest Love <> Obviously I couldn't let this one slide by without saying a profound "thanks" to you for the compliment, Brian! And also to say that the whole thing would not have come off without Marian who was willing to rehearse it (not an easy one to get - lots of tricky rhythms, which reminds you what an AMAZING vocalist Joni is naturally!), and play it flawlessly for me. As for the goofy improvisation at the end...can't blame tequila as I can't handle it, but Mr. Budweiser & Mr. Rolling Rock did enter the picture a bit. Thanks again for the comment, Brian...I think you can tell from the recording that I was having a good time and half the fun was doing a really obscure selection. Not that people didn't know the song, just that nobody's been brave/dumb enough to give it a shot! ;~) Bob NP: Marvin Gaye/Tammi Terrell, "Your Precious Love" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:10:19 -0500 From: mosalm Subject: A very nice game Hello,This is a nice game This game is my first work. You're the first player. I wish you would like it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:29:43 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Game?? That recent post from 'Mosalm' is the same as a virus I was sent recently...is nothing sacred??? By the way, any news on the Flash MediaPlayer for Travelogue?? I'm DYING of curiosity and desperately trying to get my hands on a promo.... -Chris --- Christopher Treacy--- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:46:58 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: trivia question NO PRIZE NJC Colin writes: << when thatcher osrt her second term as PM in the early 80's, who was the Leader of the Opposition >> Bette Midler? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:08:09 -0500 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's vocal range Joni's high notes are at least identifiably human, unlike the dolphin-like stratospheric heights of Mariah Carey's range. Yes, Mariah can sing that high, but why? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:36:04 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Joni's vocal range Engwall wrote: > Joni's high notes are at least identifiably human, unlike the dolphin-like stratospheric heights of Mariah Carey's range. Yes, Mariah can sing that high, but why? exactly my point. oooh, aaah, ooooooh, aaaaaaaaahhhhh. Nauseating. Joni's on the other hand are gorgeous, nothing less than poetry to the ears. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:49:30 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Karla Bonoff NJC (shameless plug!) At 07:19 AM 10/27/2002 -0800, Kakki wrote: >was also amazed to hear Karla Bonoff's own renditions in her >"Best of" album. Highly recommended. "Me too!" And if you need further incentive, autographed copies of "All My Life," the best of Karla Bonoff, are available through her website: http://www.bryndle.com/site/store.html Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:33:03 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joniphobic?, njc now Not that my opinion is going to sway the future of the Western World or anything, but.... Joni's soliloqy on the pitch of female voices has a what "passes" as the vague character of homophobia. I get that "homophobia" charge all the time. Over the weekend, my girlfriend asked her nephew if I looked a little like a little boy, like an older Harry Potter. Michael hesitated, then said, "See, there's this unspoken code if you're......." "Straight," I said. "Right," he said. Then he & I laughed nervous laughs. He continued: "If you're straight, you don't comment in any way about another guy's looks." Anna upbraided both of us for being homophobic. It's also an unspoken code, which I had broken, that if you're straight, you never discuss other lifestyles in anyway. If I say, "It's a perfectly valid choice," it's my understanding that I'm offensive on 2 counts: 1. Sexuality is not a choice. and 2. No one, of any orientation, needs *permission* from a straight white man to be what they are. It's not up to me to confer permission. I get it. I see the points. It's not really fair to me, as an outspoken, mildly political person, but it's a resonably small thing to ask of straights: "Stay out of the politics." Or have I missed the point? (Again?) :) Lama np: Monk, the jazz pianist on CD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:38:23 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Political NJC I was not going to post this, but send it privately. However, upon reading some of the recent post on the up coming elections I thought some of you would find this interesting. Many of the statements in this article are from liberal democrats and maybe the trend at the poles. Kasey John Leo (archive) (printer-friendly version) October 28, 2002 The left has lost its moral bearings Everywhere you turn these days, someone on the left is denouncing President Bush as Hitler, Satan, a terrorist or a tyrannical emperor. A Yale law professor said Bush is "the most dangerous man on Earth." A famous editor referred to Bush as "a lawn jockey" and "Pinocchio." Some of the angry rhetoric flirts with the fringe idea that the United States planned the terrorist attacks. A Purdue professor said "there is no ground to be certain" that America and Israel aren't behind the 9/11 attacks. A Columbia law professor compared 9/11 to the Reichstag fire in Nazi Germany -- Bush is not responsible for 9/11, he said, but he exploited a national disaster to suspend civil liberties, just like Hitler. A Berkeley professor helpfully pointed out that some Indonesian groups think the U.S. planned the Bali bombing. The rhetoric accurately reflects the current condition of much of the left -- bitter, stymied, alienated, politically impotent, full of loathing for America and the West, and totally unable to address the crisis wrought by 9/11, except to imply (or say) that the U.S. deserved to be attacked. The left has lost its bearings, Michael Walzer, the political philosopher, wrote in the spring issue of Dissent, the leftist magazine he edits. His article, "Can There Be a Decent Left?" deplored "the barely concealed glee" of the left's reaction to 9/11, and the lack of "any visible concern" about how to prevent terrorism in the future. "Many left intellectuals live in America like internal aliens," he wrote, "refusing to identify with their fellow citizens, regarding any hint of patriotic feeling as politically incorrect. That's why they had such difficulty responding emotionally to the attacks of Sept. 11 or joining in the expressions of solidarity that followed." The favorite posture of many American leftists, Walzer said, is "standing as a righteous minority, brave and determined, amid the timid, the corrupt and the wicked. A posture like that ensures at once the moral superiority of the left and its political failure." He said the left needs to discard its "ragtag Marxism" and its belief that America is corrupt beyond remedy. Solidarity with people in trouble is the most profound commitment that leftists make, he wrote, but even the oppressed have obligations, and one is to avoid murdering innocent people. "Leftists who cannot insist on this point, even to people poorer and weaker than themselves, have abandoned both politics and morality for something else." An example of that abandonment came two weeks ago (EDITOR: Oct. 12-14) at the University of Michigan's pro-Palestinian conference, which could not bring itself to criticize suicide bombings. Save us from moral appeals that leave room for blowing up families in supermarkets. Journalist Christopher Hitchens caused a bigger hubbub than Walzer when he resigned from The Nation magazine after 20 years, citing its anti-war stance on Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote in his farewell column, is "a filthy menace" and "there is not the least doubt that he has acquired some of the means of genocide and hopes to collect some more." He thought The Nation had become "the echo chamber of those who truly believe that John Ashcroft is a greater menace than Osama bin Laden." In another article, Hitchens wrote: "I can only hint at how much I despise a left that thinks of Osama bin Laden as a slightly misguided anti-imperialist. ... Instead of internationalism, we find among the left now a sort of affectless, neutralist, smirking isolationism" and "a masochistic refusal to admit that our own civil society has any merit." Ron Rosenbaum of the New York Observer said Hitchens' departure from The Nation was sad because he "forced a lot of people on the left to confront their blind spot, their on-bended-knee obeisance to anyone in the Third World who posed as a 'liberator,' from Mao to Castro to Arafat and the Taliban." Rosenbaum's comments came in an article on his own defection, "Goodbye, All That: How Left Idiocies Drove me to Flee." One trigger: a well-respected academic said he welcomed 9/11 because it gave Americans a chance to reassess their past honestly, as Germans did in the 1960s. "I couldn't take it any more," Rosenbaum wrote. "Goodbye to all that ... the inability to distinguish between America's sporadic blundering depredations" and Hitler's Germany. Goodbye, he said, to the refusal to admit that "Marxist genocides" slaughtered some 20 million to 50 million people in Russia, China and Cambodia. And goodbye to the "peace marches" like the one in Madrid where women wore suicide-bomber belts as bikinis. "'Peace' somehow doesn't exclude blowing up Jewish children," Rosenbaum wrote. We owe a debt to Walzer, Hitchens and Rosenbaum. Now will they make any difference to our hyperalienated left? Contact John Leo | Read his biography )2002 Universal Press Syndicate Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web siteGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:40:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Game?? njc --- Christopher Treacy wrote: > That recent post from 'Mosalm' is the same as a > virus I was sent > recently...is nothing sacred??? Yes, it's a virus. I'm assuming that between Les' ISP, Yahoo (in my case) and my own virus scanning programs, that that bad stuff was removed (I didn't see an attachment, nor was there anything to indicate that one had been removed, so I'm not sure what happened, but if a bunch of people start getting weird e-mails from me, all I can say is D'OH!!!) One thing though - has anyone ever noticed that these people that create these e-mails always have weird English? If you're "clever" enough to write a virus program, how come you can't get the semantics of English right? or is that meant to be a clue of some kind? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:43:38 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: 1987 Benefit > Subject: Today in History: October 27 > > 1987: Joni performed at the "Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier" benefit in front of an estimated 9,000 people at the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa, California. Joni concentrated on recent material, previewing a new song ("Lakota") and offering a dramatic rendition of "Tax Free." > More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=161 > I was there. What the reviewer doesn't say is that Joni did stop more than once because the talk from the audience was literally covering her singing at the piano. Joni opened the benefit (gasp!) and everybody had come for Willy Nelson and Kris so you can imagine how much attention they paid Joni in between 2 frankfurters and beer! Grand fiasco at the piano. After Joni's show there were some fans outside (any JMDLers?) by the back exit screaming "Joni we love you" hoping to make up for the extremely rude audience. The only good thing is we left early, right after Joni, but in total frustration. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:13:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: art's cd njc thanks paul & kakki for mentioning this...listening to the clips now, art's voice is soooo beautiful & such lovely harmonies all over the songs...i especially love the opening lines of 'the thread': at the corner of 53rd & the summer of 62 the first time i felt the tug of what i call the thread of you... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:13:19 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: happy birthday njc to you, wonderful julius!!!! have a wonderful birthday!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:04:51 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Joni & baby, 100% jc Yeah, I think that the part of her that's telling the story meant "lover". Yeah. But to stop at the surface is to miss tons and tons of stuff! "Blue" has lots of songs about loss. Then there is a song about traveling with a bout of insomnia, and having a lover who stole her camera. "Carey" is not an entirely happy song. Remember that when she put "Little Green" out, Kelly (Kilauren) was a secret. Not that I'm going to get into the personal aspects of this but rather, I'm sticking to the literary critique angle. The song "Little Green" has *vague text* about a private pain. Let me cite a better example. Think of when Joni's making a phone call from the "Blue Motel Room", and she asking her beau to "Tell those girls you've got German measles." She's not literally asking for that *specific* lie, right? She's using a wee bit of humor. She using an indirect way of conveying something more serious and private. That's an obvious example so let's take one with one shade more subtlety. Drummers have a language to describe the various rolls, and punctuations. We all know what a "drum roll" is. And we can imagine what a "splash" is. We can hear "rattle, splash, tin, tin, boom," in our heads. Supposedly, "boom-boom-pachyderm" is one of those phrases. Now imagine a woman has a long-distance relationship with a drummer. There are always girls in the audience, hanging on his every move, his every gesture. Isn't it arty for that woman to worry about losing him by using these words? "Will you still love me When I call you up when I get back to town I know that you've got all those pretty girls coming on Hanging on your boom-boom-pachyderm Will you tell those girls that you've got German Measles Honey, tell them you've got germs." Joni's using "boom-boom-pachyderm" BECAUSE it's an arty way of expressing herself. She's using that phrase BECAUSE it has a double meaning. Just as she doesn't want him to tell lies about his health *exactly*, she's also asking him to shake of the hangers-on. To dismiss the double meanings is to lose an incredible amount of richness in her lyrics. So, in my opinion, when she turns in "Blue", a collection of songs about how she's loved and lost, about how she's been rejected, about how her ex can never be happy in a house with a percolator, about how she's rejected others, about how she made her baby cry, she's not talking about one thing. In "Blue", maybe more than in any other collection, she's always talking about everything at once. What I'm trying to say is that when Joni says "percolator" she usually, in her poet's heart, means "home". Lama StDoherty@aol.com said, >>>>I think Joni just uses baby as slang. It was a popular word of her era (of many eras) ... and Joni uses slang (bigwig, darling). Hate to be a mean old daddy -- but sometimes things are just that simple.>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:05:27 -0600 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Joniphobic?, njc now Lama, I have not reveled my gender or sexual preference on list because I find that any such reference brings with it some bias, however small, to what is written. That includes a white male. It is wrong to be prejudiced against anyone, even bigots. Each and every one of us has been limited in speech because of political correctness. I know Nixon is not a popular figure, but I was young when he resigned and I remember these words, "If people hate you, and you hate them back, you gain nothing. You only destroy yourself." As years have passed I may have rearranged the words, but the meaning is the same. I've made lasting friendships with people who have said they wouldn't have been had they known some things about me. I take that as a compliment. It was through not hating them, allowing them to believe as they did, that I broke through their bigotry. By the way, I am a white, female lesbian. I am very comfortable in my own skin, and it is because of that, that others opinions don't really mater. I don't think you are homophobic, and I welcome your opinion. Kasey Not that my opinion is going to sway the future of the Western World or anything, but.... Joni's soliloqy on the pitch of female voices has a what "passes" as the vague character of homophobia. I get that "homophobia" charge all the time. Over the weekend, my girlfriend asked her nephew if I looked a little like a little boy, like an older Harry Potter. Michael hesitated, then said, "See, there's this unspoken code if you're......." "Straight," I said. "Right," he said. Then he & I laughed nervous laughs. He continued: "If you're straight, you don't comment in any way about another guy's looks." Anna upbraided both of us for being homophobic. It's also an unspoken code, which I had broken, that if you're straight, you never discuss other lifestyles in anyway. If I say, "It's a perfectly valid choice," it's my understanding that I'm offensive on 2 counts: 1. Sexuality is not a choice. and 2. No one, of any orientation, needs *permission* from a straight white man to be what they are. It's not up to me to confer permission. I get it. I see the points. It's not really fair to me, as an outspoken, mildly political person, but it's a resonably small thing to ask of straights: "Stay out of the politics." Or have I missed the point? (Again?) :) Lama np: Monk, the jazz pianist on CDGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:19:44 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Joniphobic? Good post, Jim. It's a complicated issue, like racism. I'm gay and very sensitive to homophobia, and felt Joni's comment attested to homophobia or, at the very least, misinformation) in the world, not her own. Others, both straight and gay, either agreed or disagreed. I've met you and would never consider you homophobic, nor anyone else I've ever met through the list. That doesn't mean someone might make a casual remark that someone might take as insensitive or homophobic. But I'm a big believer in intent. And if there is no purposeful intent to hurt then I don't believe there is homophobia. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 1:33 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joniphobic?, njc now Not that my opinion is going to sway the future of the Western World or anything, but.... Joni's soliloqy on the pitch of female voices has a what "passes" as the vague character of homophobia. I get that "homophobia" charge all the time. Over the weekend, my girlfriend asked her nephew if I looked a little like a little boy, like an older Harry Potter. Michael hesitated, then said, "See, there's this unspoken code if you're......." "Straight," I said. "Right," he said. Then he & I laughed nervous laughs. He continued: "If you're straight, you don't comment in any way about another guy's looks." Anna upbraided both of us for being homophobic. It's also an unspoken code, which I had broken, that if you're straight, you never discuss other lifestyles in anyway. If I say, "It's a perfectly valid choice," it's my understanding that I'm offensive on 2 counts: 1. Sexuality is not a choice. and 2. No one, of any orientation, needs *permission* from a straight white man to be what they are. It's not up to me to confer permission. I get it. I see the points. It's not really fair to me, as an outspoken, mildly political person, but it's a resonably small thing to ask of straights: "Stay out of the politics." Or have I missed the point? (Again?) :) Lama np: Monk, the jazz pianist on CD ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:23:31 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Joni's voice on STAS vs. next few; "Moon ... Harsh Mistress"; Playboy poll Bear with me, here. This time, the "Reply" function of Hotmail did not bring up the text of the message replied to; I could only figure out how to copy and paste one of the two posts I want to respond to. 1. One correspondent notes that Joni's voice on "Song to a Seagull," whose official title is actually "Joni Mitchell," is lower than on "Clouds" and the next several albums, and speculates that the range for the latter was spurred by conscious imitation of Judy Collins and Joan Baez. Don't forget the high notes in "Night in the City": up about an octave on the capitalized syllables: "Night in the CI-ty looks PRET-ty to me ...." 2. From: "Mark or Travis" I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops for >me. Here you have a woman of incredible talents. She is probably one of the >best interpretive singers in the business. Her voice is stronger than ever. >When she decided to start composing songs we saw that she was great at that >too. Which album is this on? I've only recently started to collect Judy's stuff. I agree that she is a wonderful interpreter. For a long time I just thought she had a pretty voice and wrote rather precious little songs. I have since learned that I was wrong on both counts. 'Albatross', 'My Father', 'Granddaddy' - these are great songs. And her choice of material to interpret has usually shown impeccable taste. "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is on "Judith," 1975 on Elektra. It now can be ordered from the Merchandise page at www.judycollins.com. The song title is the same as the title of a novel by the late Libertarian science-fiction genius Robert Heinlein, in which he introduces the TANSTAAFL Principle: "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch," which, ultimately, is borne out by the laws of thermodynamics. I think the novel predates the song, and thus, that the title was borrowed for the song, but I don't think the song lyrics relate to the novel. 3. December 2002 PLAYBOY is now out, and includes the ballot for the 2003 Music Poll. Among the names listed as candidates for induction into that poll's Hall of Fame is that of Joni Mitchell. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:54:46 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni's voice on STAS vs. next few; "Moon ... Harsh Mistress"; Playboy poll <> And also "Pirates of Penance"...some pretty high notes on that bad boy as well. But I would say that while Joni's high register is certainly in full evidence on STAS, she does go for some lower notes on this record that she doesn't seem to approach on Clouds. Matter of fact, I didn't get this record until the late 90's, and the IMMEDIATE thing that I noticed were the low notes like right off the bat when she sings "painted the pastel walls BROWN" on IHAK. Bob NP: The Contours, "Do You Love Me" PS: I'll need to get that new Playboy so I can, ummmm, vote for Joni in that Poll! Schwing! (Or should I say "Spong!") ;~) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:57:04 +0000 From: colin Subject: Bush/Blair NJC i don't understand quite a lot of things about politcs. So who can explain to me why Bush and Blair are not going to war with North Korea? One of the countries in Bush's Axis of Evil. Why have we not attacked India and Pakistan? Russia? Why are we allowed weapons of Mass Destruction but no one else(except Israel) is? who exactly biggest threat coming from? One of these countries already use weapons of mass destruction. several times. Isn't it natural to distrust them? - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:03:08 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bush/Blair NJC colin wrote: > i don't understand quite a lot of things about politcs. > So who can explain to me why Bush and Blair are not going to war with > North Korea? No oil there. > One of the countries in Bush's Axis of Evil. > Why have we not attacked India and Pakistan? We have never worried about them attacking us, only each other. > > Russia? Russia has actually acted responsibly with their weapons (translation: they have as many as we do, and may have to turn to them for help someday.) > > Why are we allowed weapons of Mass Destruction but no one else(except > Israel) is? Don't you know that Israel has no nuclear capabilities (yeah, right.) Jerry np: Eva Cassidy - Early Morning Rain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:10:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Joni's voice on STAS vs. next few; All this talk of Joni's high notes - I finally had to go check some of them out. The highest note Joni hits that I have found on a cursory look at her recordings is a high F#, which she hits on The Arrangement, California, and in her guitar duet on MOA's Your Turn Me On... She hits a high F on All I Want and Carey. The highest note I found on her first album was an E (in Song to a Seagull). If anyone can think of others, I'd be interested. I also heard her first album after LOC and Clouds - and thought, well why didn't she use this lovely full bodied voice on her 2nd and 3rd album. The range of notes is somewhat lower, but it is the quality of her tone and timbre that I like so much better. Jenny Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote:> And also "Pirates of Penance"...some pretty high notes on that bad boy as well. But I would say that while Joni's high register is certainly in full evidence on STAS, she does go for some lower notes on this record that she doesn't seem to approach on Clouds. Matter of fact, I didn't get this record until the late 90's, and the IMMEDIATE thing that I noticed were the low notes like right off the bat when she sings "painted the pastel walls BROWN" on IHAK. Bob NP: The Contours, "Do You Love Me" PS: I'll need to get that new Playboy so I can, ummmm, vote for Joni in that Poll! Schwing! (Or should I say "Spong!") ;~) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:22:50 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Bush/Blair NJC Colin attacked American purity by the following diatribe: > i don't understand quite a lot of things about politcs. > So who can explain to me why Bush and Blair are not going to war with > North Korea? One of the countries in Bush's Axis of Evil. > Why have we not attacked India and Pakistan? > Russia? > Why are we allowed weapons of Mass Destruction but no one else(except > Israel) is? > > who exactly biggest threat coming from? One of these countries already > use weapons of mass destruction. several times. Isn't it natural to > distrust them? How dare you suggest that Bush and Cheney do not have the purest of motives and are not acting in a godly manner? Russia does not use chemical weapons, you flaming leftist. Pakistan does not harbor Al Queda terrorists and does not possess nuclear weapons nor threatened to use them, you anti American Brit. North Korea is not a problem, has never kidnapped citizens of other countries, and is no longer a member of the axis of evil because the GOP pollsters have not had a chance to poll on that yet, you neo terrorist. India does not possess nuclear weapons, nor have they of course ever threatened to use them, you hater of American democracy. If you do not understand the logic of a bunch of Saudis committing terrorist acts and the response to that being the US attacking Afghanistan, then you are just another antiAmerican. If you do not understand that the proper response to Saudi-funded and Saudi-operated Al Queda is to attack Iraq, then you support terrorism against the United States. If you think that the threatening war against Saddam Hussein is an attempt to distract from the failure to "get bin Laden dead or alive" then you are evil. If you think that any American policy is determined by oil instead of morality because this administration is controlled by oil men and oil interests with ties to the Saudis, then you are just another antiAmerican peacenik who wants to see Americans killed. If you think that Bush's political advisor Karl Rove has referred to the situation with Iraq as another product to be sold in the marketplace, or that Republican party strategists have suggested that war against Iraq was a good sell in the campaign, or that any of this is a distraction from the huge budget deficits, the collapse of the stock market and Americans retirement programs, Enron and Bush's largest campaign contributor Kenneth Lay, or anything else, then you are an enemy of America and I hope John Ashcroft takes you into preventive detention before you can spew any more of your evil filth. You better sing God Bless America a bunch of times before your immortal soul is damned for all time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:30:34 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush/Blair NJC err ...umm. thanks Vince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:56:44 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joniphobic?, njc now hey lama, >It's also an unspoken code, which I had broken, that if you're >straight, you >never discuss other lifestyles in anyway. as a card-carrying member of the gay mafia, i can assure you, we rescinded that part of the code many years ago. you and i have been on this list for over five years, and i wanted to make sure that everyone on the list knows this: i've always appreciated your approach to thinking about and discussing homosexuality. you've been open-minded as we've communicated some of our gripes, and when we've had disputes with some homophobes (and there have been more than a few here). the comment about straight guys never commenting on other men's looks made me laugh, and reminded me of a moment from a will and grace episode. it was the hour-long thanksgiving flashback a couple of years ago, and will, then in college, was asking his roommate "do these pants make my butt look fat?" till the roommate had to enforce the code. very funny. patrick np - radiohead - kid a ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #446 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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