From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #444 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 28 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 444 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: October 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] STAS and below ["c Karma" ] [none] ["William Chavez" ] [none] ["William Chavez" ] Re: STAS and below [Deb Messling ] Re: Linda and all (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: Arts new thread (NJC) ["kakki" ] Re: Arts new thread (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Trivia question. (prize involved) NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: STAS and below ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: STAS and below and Pazfest [Murphycopy@aol.com] Mark is the winner!! NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Arts new thread (NJC) [Mags N Brei ] Re: Arts new thread (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] NJC Bensten vs Benson [vince ] Tori at the piano NJC [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: hastings again, njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni and some Not Joni stuff njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: hastings again ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Judy, cher, etc. njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Joni would want us to vote! [Hejira924@aol.com] Joni would want us to vote! njc [vince ] Re: moon is a harsh mistress njc [Deb Messling ] trivia question NO PRIZE NJC [colin ] Re: NJC Bensten vs Benson ["Mark or Travis" ] HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 03:02:58 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 27 1987: Joni performed at the "Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier" benefit in front of an estimated 9,000 people at the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa, California. Joni concentrated on recent material, previewing a new song ("Lakota") and offering a dramatic rendition of "Tax Free." More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=161 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:51:39 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: STAS and below With all the discussion about Joni's vocal range having lowered (as is biologically normal) through the years, I'm wondering how few people note that her range on STAS is much lower than on the subesequent three ("career defining") records. I wonder if Joni felt pressure to raise her range to that of Baez and Collins so as to provide competitive product in those years. We as music consumers are reticent to believe that such detailed coersion is placed upon artists, but it is not without precedent. Over the past 30 years, I've increasingly felt that some of the vocal stretches in Clouds, LOTC and yes, even in Blue are just that. She long has maintained that her music has mirrored her visual art and like many artists, strives to avoid artiface and impurity in both content and execution. Certainly her most visually abstract period corresponds with her most political musical-poetry. Perhaps later period vocals have appeared even more "plain spoken" and lack the embellishment that would render them "marketable" among those who would consider themselves fans, but who won't allow themselves to let go of the early 70s. I've said before that her true admirers are there for "goosebumps, but not for 'The Big Chill."" The fact that Joni's vocal range has come down to what she now calls "alto" is no surprise here. I'm rather glad to see her wear comfortable clothes. A good song is a good song, even without the curly-ques, as "Travelogue" will prove. CC "I can't go back there any more. You know my keys won't fit the door." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:10:38 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] >>I do especially like her version of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." >I think I prefer it over Joe Cocker's.' I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops for me. Here you have a woman of incredible talents. She is probably one of the best interpretive singers in the business. Her voice is stronger than ever. When she decided to start composing songs we saw that she was great at that too. She was the major push behind the documentary on Dr.Antonia Brico "Antonia, Portrait of a Woman" (nominated for an Academy Award-not that this means anything). I have this documentary and the day I played it at my house everybody who walked by became GLUED to the set. Her small acting roles have received great reviews. As a pianist(initially a classical performer) she is rivaled only by Tori Amos and maybe Bruce Hornsby(his playing is more pop/jazz). I think Billy and Elton don't come close in technique, although I don't think Judy is a great improviser. Has anybody really listened to what Tori is doing on that Piano?!?! What about the harpsichord. This is a very difficult instrument to play and just because you are a great pianist does not mean you can play a harpsichord. >>Those are my favorites too although I don't have 'Don't Cry Now'. I'd >> >like to get a hold of 'Silk Purse' but I don't think it's available on >> >cd. 'Prisoner' and 'Hasten' are particular favorites. Linda's version >> >of 'I Will Always Love You' puts Whitney to shame imo and she >> >interprets songs by J D Souther and Karla Bonoff like nobody else.' Whitney's version is good but Linda's is better. I do hate the fact that Whitney made it into such a BIG hit. It almost takes the sincerity out of it when something is soooo commercialized. I loved that song when it was country musics little secret. Somehow, if Elvis had made this song into another "Love me Tender" it would have still retained its validity. Dolly is one mega rich woman because of Whitney though. Silk Purse and Home Grown have good song and poor songs on them. I do think both are available on CD but don't expect to see them stocked at the local record store. The song "Long, Long Time" is on Silk Purse and this one is CLASSIC Linda. There is one album that is not easy to find and was released just before Don't Cry Now. It's called 'Linda Ronstadt'. The songs as individuals are very good eventhough the album as a whole is not cohesive. There is a live cut of the Neil Young song "Birds" on this album. This has got to be the DEFINITE RENDITION of this song. Those "not yet famouse" boys that were later to make up the group the EAGLES back her up throughout much of this album. >>she(Linda) interprets songs by J D Souther and Karla Bonoff like >nobody >>else.' True, I don't think I've ever heard anybody do Souther or Bonoff like Linda. I have a secret desire to hear Stevie Nicks due an album of Souther song in her Bella Donna vein. That will never happen(despite the fact that they use to date). >>I started exploring Billie Holiday's music around the time 'What's >New' >>came out and eventually discovered that a pretty voice does not >> >necessarily a great interpreter make and a less than pretty voice can >> >sometimes get to the heart of a song and give it life that you never >> >suspected was there. If you ever want to talk about Billie, I'M THERE. She is the prime example for demonstrating that a great voice means little and a voice with character is everything!!!! I think that Billie Holiday and Patsy Cline are the two most important vocalist of our time PERIOD! >>Ms. Ross. Diana. What can you say about her? I agree with William >that >>her vocals were surprisingly good in 'Lady Sings the Blues'. She >did do >>a pretty decent job of giving an impression of Billie's style. >But the >>character she played was not Billie Holiday. At least not >from >>everything I've read about Billie. I think you used a great word for Diana on Billie. IMPRESSION! She gives the impression of Billie without singing like Billie. That is what makes her renditions of these songs VALID. Her acting on this film (unlike others films that followed), was GOOD. With the exception of Cher(good singer but not a great), most singers turned actresses suck. I bet you guys are sorry you let me be a part of this forum(Ha Ha). In person, it is difficult to get a word out of me. I guess I'm not really speaking while typing... Workingwilly _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:26:16 -0500 From: "William Chavez" Subject: [none] >>Joni's comment made me think of something that happened to me recently. I have a woman friend who has lots of gay friends and no one would ever think of her as homophobic. She works in an office that's next to an office where three lesbians work. Recently my friend was bemoaning the fact that she hasn't had a date in a few months and said, "Even the lesbians don't ask me out." Is my friend a homophobe? No. Is there a bit of homophobia lurking in her? Yes, definitely. << Gee Bob, that comment made me think that you work friend was not really homophobic at all. To me it sounds like she wants to join in on the extra fun. A little experimentation? workingwilly _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:33:13 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: STAS and below I've often thought the same thing. I also think Joni's earliest voice (STAS and before) sounds older and more old-fashioned than her voice on subsequent records. I wonder if she deliberately changed her style to make it sound younger and more contemporary. I like the STAS voice much better than the LOTC voice, myself, although by the time she got to Blue, I like that voice, too. At 09:51 AM 10/27/02 +0000, you wrote: >With all the discussion about Joni's vocal range having lowered (as is >biologically normal) through the years, I'm wondering how few people note >that her range on STAS is much lower than on the subesequent three >("career defining") records. I wonder if Joni felt pressure to raise her >range to that of Baez and Collins so as to provide competitive product in >those years. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 07:19:28 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Linda and all (njc) Keep typing/talking William - great post ;-) >I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops for > me. And Jimmy Webb's too. > >>she(Linda) interprets songs by J D Souther and Karla Bonoff like nobody > >>else.' > > True, I don't think I've ever heard anybody do Souther or Bonoff like Linda. I agree, but was also amazed to hear Karla Bonoff's own renditions in her "Best of" album. Highly recommended. I've been a fan of Linda's since the beginning and through all her phases. I'll always be a little partial to the Stone Poneys days. They were the first I recall who melded country into mainstream pop. She hooked up with some truly great songwriters from the beginning - Kenny Edwards and then his friend Karla. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:46:34 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Arts new thread (NJC) Thanks so much to Paul for the rec on the new Art Garfunkel album. I have just listened to four songs (in full) from Garfunkel's website and OMG, OMG. You can listen here http://www.artgarfunkel.com/latest.htm I KNOW there are many here who will absolutely flip over it. I already know this will one be on my forever best list. Garfunkel, Sharp and Buddy Mondlock are playing here tonight at the Wiltern. Kakki NP: Art Garfunkel with Maia Sharp - Perfect Moment - OMG > Just had a UK.messenger e-mail from > mp3.com with a stream of a track from > Art Garfunkel's new album ' Everything > waits to be noticed' - a song called > 'The Thread' > > Cockburn-slap-type acoustic (I imagine by > Buddy Mondlock) and a Night Ride Home > lollop - with lilting soprano sax (by Maia > Sharp, I imagine) - love this song! > - and arrangement. > > PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:56:38 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Arts new thread (NJC) Kakki wrote: >Garfunkel, Sharp and Buddy Mondlock are playing here tonight at the Wiltern And, if you can't get tickets, they're here in London in March - at The Royal Albert Hall (!?) > NP: Art Garfunkel with Maia Sharp - Perfect Moment - OMG Whoa!! When she comes in on this!! PaulC (absolutely flipping) - ----- Original Message ----- > Thanks so much to Paul for the rec on the new Art Garfunkel album. I have > just listened to four songs (in full) from Garfunkel's website and OMG, OMG. > You can listen here http://www.artgarfunkel.com/latest.htm I KNOW there are > many here who will absolutely flip over it. I already know this will one be > on my forever best list. > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:36:25 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Trivia question. (prize involved) NJC The first person in with this will win something. (Oh..the prize....Joni's new one! :-) 12:34PM eastern time It took me a good five minutes to get this. Who ran against Bush and Quayle in the 1988 presidential election? name both the presidential nominee and the v. p. (what an unlikely duo...seems funny now) Bree PS. Use your head and DO NOT look it up. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:42:03 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Trivia question. (prize involved) NJC more.... Oh...someone just responded. Yes...I should say the democratic ticket. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:46:29 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: > I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops for > me. Here you have a woman of incredible talents. She is probably one of the > best interpretive singers in the business. Her voice is stronger than ever. > When she decided to start composing songs we saw that she was great at that > too. Which album is this on? I've only recently started to collect Judy's stuff. I agree that she is a wonderful interpreter. For a long time I just thought she had a pretty voice and wrote rather precious little songs. I have since learned that I was wrong on both counts. 'Albatross', 'My Father', 'Granddaddy' - these are great songs. And her choice of material to interpret has usually shown impeccable taste. Has anybody really listened to what > Tori is doing on that Piano?!?! What about the harpsichord. This is a very > difficult instrument to play and just because you are a great pianist does > not mean you can play a harpsichord. I do think Tori is talented but her lyrics are often too obtuse for me. Sometimes that's ok. I don't always understand what Rickie Lee is singing about in some of her later stuff (thinking about 'Traffic From Paradise' here) but I usually get some kind of impression from it. What little I know of Tori's songs (a tape a friend gave me some time ago) usually leaves me scratching my head and going 'huh?' People usually seem to lump Tori in with Joni's artistic decendants but I think she owes as much or more to Laura Nyro as far as her roots go. > Whitney's version is good but Linda's is better. I do hate the fact that > Whitney made it into such a BIG hit. It almost takes the sincerity out of it > when something is soooo commercialized. Whitney's interpretations in general have never struck me as being particularly sincere. To me her singing mainly serves the purpose of showing off her voice and how she can use it. I can't stand her cover of 'I Will Always Love You'. Makes me cringe. > Silk Purse and Home Grown have good song and poor songs on them. I do think > both are available on CD but don't expect to see them stocked at the local > record store. The song "Long, Long Time" is on Silk Purse and this one is > CLASSIC Linda. 'Long, Long Time' is one of the reasons why I want that album. > > If you ever want to talk about Billie, I'M THERE. She is the prime example > for demonstrating that a great voice means little and a voice with character > is everything!!!! I think that Billie Holiday and Patsy Cline are the two > most important vocalist of our time PERIOD! > I suppose that point could be argued but I'm not going to quibble about it. I love both of those singers. I think Linda (along with most every singer in C&W) owes a lot to Patsy. That voice was one of a kind and Patsy could break your heart or make you laugh or make you feel any emotion in between with it. And people on this list who have been around for awhile know that I can go on & on & on about Billie. Her voice has become ingrained in my soul. She speaks to me in a way that almost no other singers do. > > I think you used a great word for Diana on Billie. IMPRESSION! She gives the > impression of Billie without singing like Billie. That is what makes her > renditions of these songs VALID. Her acting on this film (unlike others > films that followed), was GOOD. I'm not saying that her acting wasn't good. I'm saying that the slim, doe-eyed, Cinderella-ensnared-by-drugs character that she played wasn't much like the real Billie Holiday. By all accounts, Billie may have been a vulnerable person but she had a tough exterior. While it's true that she was involved with several abusive men (Billy Dee Williams' portrayal of Louis McKay as the handsome prince who did his best to save her is a total farce), there are stories that she sometimes gave as good as she got. Also, photos of Billie show a rather Rubinesque woman who only became thin and finally painfully emaciated in the last few years of her life. Most of what I've read indicates that Billie was a party girl from as far back as her teen days when she was Eleanora Fagan in Baltimore and nobody pushed her around. If anyone tried they would probably come out of the encounter with a black eye. Maybe two black eyes. With the exception of Cher(good singer but > not a great), most singers turned actresses suck. Cher held her own with Meryl Streep in 'Silkwood' and lit up the screen in 'Moonstruck'. She showed 'em all. I wish she would get another decent part. She really is a talented, natural actress. > > I bet you guys are sorry you let me be a part of this forum(Ha Ha). In > person, it is difficult to get a word out of me. I guess I'm not really > speaking while typing... > Workingwilly Hey, I'm enjoying talking with you. It's nice to get responses to what I write once in awhile. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:56:25 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: STAS and below > I've often thought the same thing. I also think Joni's earliest voice > (STAS and before) sounds older and more old-fashioned than her voice on > subsequent records. I wonder if she deliberately changed her style to make > it sound younger and more contemporary. I like the STAS voice much better > than the LOTC voice, myself, although by the time she got to Blue, I like > that voice, too. I also love STAS and the sound of Joni's voice on that record. I bought a Judy Collins cd a while back called 'Maids and Golden Apples'. It contains all the material from her first two albums and is, I believe, all traditional folk material. Judy uses a deeper, more powerful voice on most of these songs than on subsequent records. It's almost like she's assuming a male persona when singing the traditional material. I'm wondering if this could be called her 'coffee house voice'. Joni's voice takes on some of this character on 'Tin Angel'. Some of that song almost seems to be over-sung to me. The STAS voice is deeper but it has a softer sound to it. Maybe it's the 'bell jar effect' that makes it sound that way. Joni has referred to her singing on some of the early records as her 'helium voice' and I go back and forth on how I feel about it. Sometimes it is beautiful and ethereal. Other times it just grates on me. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:08:51 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: STAS and below and Pazfest Mark writes: << Joni has referred to her singing on some of the early records as her 'helium voice' and I go back and forth on how I feel about it. Sometimes it is beautiful and ethereal. Other times it just grates on me. >> I agree, and I know that's it's that voice that has often turned off people I when I have tried to get them to love Joni. The Pazfest CD (such a great holidays gift -- and all for a good cause!) gave me a whole new appreciation for Joni the songwriter. So from now on, whenever I try to tell anyone how great Joni is, I think I'll let this nifty 2-CD set of great performances do the work. It's all Joni songs without the early voice that some people find grating or the later voice that some say is cigarette-ravaged. Pazfest demonstrates that even if Joni had never sang or played any musical instruments in public, her song writing alone would have given her genius status. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:25:33 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Mark is the winner!! NJC No more guesses....Mark won. The correct answer to who was on the Demo ticket against Bush and Quayle in 1988: Dukakis & Benson (Lloyd) Mark wins Joni's new one! Thanks to everyone who participated! Bree _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 11:36:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Arts new thread (NJC) wow!!!!! Listening to the songs on the site you posted Kakki. OMGOMG is right!!!! Check it out everyone! Unbelievable. wowowowowow!!!!!!! I always loved Art's voice...this is so ON..I cannot believe it!!!!!!! The collaboration is stellar, moving. Mags... np: Wishbone , Art Garfunkel kakki wrote:Thanks so much to Paul for the rec on the new Art Garfunkel album. I have just listened to four songs (in full) from Garfunkel's website and OMG, OMG. You can listen here http://www.artgarfunkel.com/latest.htm I KNOW there are many here who will absolutely flip over it. I already know this will one be on my forever best list. Garfunkel, Sharp and Buddy Mondlock are playing here tonight at the Wiltern. Kakki NP: Art Garfunkel with Maia Sharp - Perfect Moment - OMG > Just had a UK.messenger e-mail from > mp3.com with a stream of a track from > Art Garfunkel's new album ' Everything > waits to be noticed' - a song called > 'The Thread' > > Cockburn-slap-type acoustic (I imagine by > Buddy Mondlock) and a Night Ride Home > lollop - with lilting soprano sax (by Maia > Sharp, I imagine) - love this song! > - and arrangement. > > PaulC You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:51:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Arts new thread (NJC) Mags writes: << Listening to the songs on the site you posted Kakki. OMGOMG is right!!! >> I don't know if it's has been mentioned here yet, but Garfunkle has been writing poetry for many years and he was teamed with two songwriters to turn his words into the music on this new album. (Which reminds me, didn't Paul Simon once give him a major dig on a Grammys-type show regarding writing songs? I think they were presenters and appeared together onstage after being estranged for years when Paul turned to him and said something like, "Still writing, Art?") --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:02:52 -0400 From: vince Subject: NJC Bensten vs Benson Just for the record, the vice presidential candidate, Senator from Texas, and later Secretary of the Treasury, was Lloyd Bensten. Benson was off the air by 1988, actually last new show was in 1986, and I do not remember if Benson DuBois ever got to be governor of whatever state it was because I never watched the show, but Robert Guillaume was one fine actor. He was outstanding on Sports Night. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:05:36 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Tori at the piano NJC In a message dated 10/27/2002 6:11:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, willchavez@hotmail.com writes: > Has anybody really listened to what > Tori is doing on that Piano?!?! What about the harpsichord. This is a very > difficult instrument to play and just because you are a great pianist does > not mean you can play a harpsichord. > Tori is a virtuoso pianist. I'll be listening to some of her earlier works and my attention will go to the piano passages and I'm amazed. It sometimes sounds as if there are two pianists because she has a remarkably fluid left hand. Unfortunately, Tori loses me when she strays from piano composition--i could never really get into her last CD at all, and barely listened to the two before that. I'm hoping the new release out this Tuesday will be a return to the piano based writing that she does so brilliantly. ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:00:23 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: hastings again, njc Susan wrote: She has a lot of power, which I would have thought would lend itself perfectly in some of > the songs on Lush Life. Well, I forced myself to listen to the whole thing. Yuck. This album will be filed away in the "I bought you but you are awful and I will never play you again; I should just throw you away but I can't since I paid for you" area. Actually, once I did throw one away for it was truly abominable and used the lp as a frisbee, off it went into the air, away and hopefully forgotten, to rot somewhere in a field, where it belonged. I listened to Linda sing "Lush Life." My goodness. What can one say? So terrible, in my opinion. Sickly sweet to the point of nausea. I don't know exactly what the songwriter had in mind when he wrote the tune but I, as I have written before, find RLJ's version perfect. Poignant, heartbreaking, bittersweet, and in it I can feel exactly what I feel she is trying to convey. Mack np: The Cowboys. Hoping Emmitt breaks the record. Can't get network t.v. here. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:26:31 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Joni and some Not Joni stuff njc Mark wrote: I like it better than 'Living in the > USA' or 'Mad Love'. Don't care for 'Mad Love' either. Seems as if Linda is trying a little too hard on that one and approaches yelling. Now there is a place for that kind of effort, Janis for instance did it perfectly (but then again didn't she do everything perfectly?) but Linda, no. I do like 'Living in the USA' quite a bit. Would give it above average in the Mack rating scale. Especially like the cuts 'When I Grow to Old to Dream', 'White Rhythm and Blues', and 'Ooh Baby, Baby." The last one being such a fine tune. 'Prisoner' and 'Hasten' are particular favorites. 'Prisoner in Disguise' and 'Heart like a Wheel' head the list here with "Hasten Down the Wind' being a close third. Those two albums approach perfection. I know or have heard/read that artists should branch out and try to change their styles, explore other types of music, etc. I prefer that those that I love stick with what they do well and stay away from exploring. I wish Linda had done that. Linda's verion of 'I Will > Always Love You' puts Whitney to shame That is a fact and I enjoyed it immensely too. I can't really decide whether I prefer Linda's version or Dolly's. It is easy to see, to me, that Dolly wrote the tune as she puts so much of herself into it. Billie Holiday's music I have yet to develop any kind of appreciation for Billie Holliday. She just hasn't done it for me yet. I love 'Pop Pop'. Have read about that one here but haven't seen it or bought it. Going to have to do so. Reticent to do so since the last two by her that I have bought I haven't liked much. Still not sure about 'Girl at Her Volcano' but it is growing on me. Have written about my feelings for this album. Darn, lovely, just lovely. Diana. The Supremes stuff > is good, fun music and she did record one or two ok songs without them. Mad for the Supremes and though their music might seem light, it had an underlying message to it that seemed to me to be pretty profound, without working too hard to do it. But overall, her post Supremes stuff Gotta say that 'Touch Me in the Morning' is priceless and 'Ain't No Mountain High Enough' is one of the greatest tunes of all time. Had a couple of friends that would never even get close to that kind of music but after turning them on to that tune, they became fans. And who could forget 'Remember Me?" ridiculously inflated ego Tragically true even though no death was involved although the death of her career could make it so I suppose. I > sometimes think she is somebody with a pretty voice but limited talent. Have always believed her voice to be one of the greatest instruments I have ever heard. Too bad her choice of music was so poor. Carole. her a spot among the great pop music writers. No doubt. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:52:14 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: hastings again He sure did, while I was at the chicken coop. You go boy. Hoorah for Emmitt. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:54:08 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: hastings again oops, njc on that one. sorry you exclusively joni people. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:00:11 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Judy, cher, etc. njc William wrote: I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops for > me. Here you have a woman of incredible talents. She is probably one of the > best interpretive singers in the business. You are right on William. She is grand. I don't have that many of her albums. She has so darn many. That often puts me off from buying them. And they differ so. I have 3 that are so great but then I have two others that I don't care for at all. Haven't heard her version of 'harsh mistress' but going to have to find it. I can imagine how well she must do it. Whitney's version is good but Linda's is better. I do hate the fact that > Whitney made it into such a BIG hit. Well, to put it bluntly. Whitney just sucks. I can't stand to listen to her. . The song "Long, Long Time" is on Silk Purse and this one is > CLASSIC Linda. Kakki alluded to the Stone Poneys. I have the album Different Drum and 'Long, Long Time' is on it. Was it remade for 'Silk Purse?' That tune cuts to the heart of the matter. For those of us not lucky enough to have found our true love or to not have held onto that love, this song drives deep into the realm of lost love. With the exception of Cher(good singer but > not a great) I find Cher to be a GREAT singer, performer, actress. To me, Cher is great. Unconventional, yes, but when she sings, she sings a song. 'I Saw a Man and He danced with His wife.' aaaaah. you guys are sorry you let me be a part of this forum(Ha Ha). Nah, you are great William. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:06:03 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Arts new thread (NJC) Not any kind of expert on Simon and Garfunkel but remember my brother being ga ga over them way back when. When they split I didn't find Paul Simon's music very good at all and still can't understand why he received such acclaim, especially the widely acclaimed one that the name of escapes me. Just me I suppose. I did buy Garfunkel's 'Fate for Breakfast' way back when and though it seemed to lack something (and was never sure just what that was but it seemed like strawberry shortcake without the whipped cream atop it) I liked it and still play it occasionally. I thought, at the time and still do, that he was the heart of the duo and put the beauty into their music if not the substance, if that makes any sense at all. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:29:00 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: joni, rickie, njc Mark wrote: I don't always understand what Rickie Lee is singing > about in some of her later stuff (thinking about 'Traffic From Paradise' > here) but I usually get some kind of impression from it. I, too, have that problem with Rickie on most of her albums. Have to get out the words and look at them but sometimes I am sorry that I did for what the song meant to me was not what she was saying. This applies to Joni as well as the same thing happens. I wonder if they do this on purpose and allow us, or know that we will, to find our own meaning in their tunes? Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:48:01 EST From: Hejira924@aol.com Subject: Joni would want us to vote! I feel close enough morally and spiritually with Joni to dare to speak the following facts: 1) Having been a fan of Joni's since the early 1970's, with Vietnam, "The Fiddle and the Drum" and her involvement with the McGovern campaign, I know she does not believe in the status quo. 2) Having survived the Reagan years (with friends dying of AIDS and all), it was her album, "Dog Eat Dog" which gave me the hope that right wing America and their televangelists need not dictate the direction of this country forever. 3) I know she would have admired Senator Paul Wellstone for his liberal convictions, and we mourn his loss together. 4) Get out there and vote Democrat on November 5, to give her and this country a present a few days before her birthday. No hostile replies necessary - what do you want to do? Take away my free speech that Pres. Bush claims he is fighting for Iraqis? Put me on an airplane and cause it to crash like some Timothy McVeigh must have done to Wellstone's plane? I have nothing to fear, because Joni's music will always live on long after I am gone. Oh, and by the way, here is another reason to hate me, as I am suffering from recurring respiratory problems from having worked 3 blocks away from the World Trade Center, and I am a witness that this government under Bush and Giuliani did not do enough to protect us. Have fun with your empty T.V. watching and C.D. listening, while you allow your inaction to take away the last remnant of our democracy on November 5 by not voting to keep the Senate Democratic. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:58:51 -0500 From: vince Subject: Joni would want us to vote! njc also titled Save Florida from Katherine Harris Hejira924@aol.com wrote: > I feel close enough morally and spiritually with Joni to dare to speak the > following facts: > 1) Having been a fan of Joni's since the early 1970's, with Vietnam, "The > Fiddle and the Drum" and her involvement with the McGovern campaign, I know > she does not believe in the status quo. > 2) Having survived the Reagan years (with friends dying of AIDS and all), it > was her album, "Dog Eat Dog" which gave me the hope that right wing America > and their > televangelists need not dictate the direction of this country forever. > Vince: Joni was always a supporter of the peace and justice movements, some examples shown above by a most wise poster. I am not claiming Joni a member of any party, not sure she has ever gotten remotely close to being other than a fierce independent, I think she would flee for a party label, but Joni has been one of us for peace and justice issues from the beginning. Here is something concrete to do from moveon.com, the best out there end of Vince here Dear MoveOn member, Remember Katherine Harris? She was the secretary of state for Florida who decided that a recount wasn't necessary, although that's the standard practice in any other close election. She was the secretary of state that purged over 50,000 qualified black voters from the rolls before the election. The Bush family is trying to pay back Harris' "favor" by giving her a Congressional seat in Florida. They've raised a ton of money. They've sent Jeb Bush to stump for her. However, it's not working. Jan Schneider is running a great race against Harris and the vote is going to be incredibly close. Support Jan Schneider against Katherine Harris at: http://www.moveonpac.org/moveonpac/viewcandidates.phtml What's even sweeter about this race is that Schneider is a wonderful candidate. Schneider, a lawyer, author and long-time political activist, is eminently qualified. Local papers are endorsing Schneider. Even the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, which endorsed Harris four times running for public office, couldn't stomach it this time: "That hope vanished as the mistakes and misjudgments that plagued Harris' years in public office continued right through her confounding resignation as secretary of state. Nothing has occurred in the general election campaign to suggest that anything will change for the better... We recommend Jan Schneider for U.S. House of Representatives, District 13." Give now to Schneider and foil Bush's payback scheme at: http://www.moveonpac.org/moveonpac/viewcandidates.phtml Why? Reason #12 -- Democracy is about votes, not favors. On this web page, we're also highlighting four Senate races that are hanging in the balance: Tim Johnson, Senator Jean Carnahan, Tom Strickland, and Jeanne Shaheen. These are real cliffhangers. The control of the Senate will likely turn on these races. Here are the most recent poll results: Colorado 41% - TOM STRICKLAND (D) Zogby Poll 40% - Sen. Wayne Allard (R) 19% - don't know, other Missouri 47% - Sen. JEAN CARNAHAN (D) Research 2000 Poll 46% - Jim Talent (R) 9% - don't know, other South 43% - U.S. Rep. John Thune (R) CBS News Poll Dakota 40% - Sen. TIM JOHNSON (D) 17% - don't know, others New 47% - Gov. Jeanne SHAHEEN (D) University of New Hampshire 43% - U.S. Rep. John Sununu (R) 10% - others, undecided The countdown continues, - -Wes, Eli, Joan, Peter, Doug and Carrie for MoveOn.org PAC October 24, 2002 P.S. If you know other folks who would like to get our email alerts, have them go to MoveOnPAC.org and click on the "signup now" link. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:09:52 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: moon is a harsh mistress njc "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is from the "Judith" album, which also includes "Send in the Clowns" and a beautiful original, "Born to the Breed," which Judy wrote about her son. It's a beautiful album. At 10:46 AM 10/27/02 -0800, you wrote: > > I think Judy Collin's rendition of "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is tops >for > > me. > >Which album is this on? >Mark E in Seattle - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:26:55 +0000 From: colin Subject: trivia question NO PRIZE NJC when thatcher osrt her second term as PM in the early 80's, who was the Leader of the Opposition/ (if you are a Brit, don't answer) - -- bw colin TANTRA LHASA APSO (reg 1982) colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:01:41 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Bensten vs Benson I suspect Vince pulled this information straight from his own head, Bree. I could remember 'You, sir, are no John Kennedy' but could not come up with Bentsen's name (I did know Dukakis). Therefore, I think Vince should be the winner of the contest. Travis looked up the info on the net and found Lloyd Bentsen for me. Mark > Just for the record, the vice presidential candidate, Senator from > Texas, and later Secretary of the Treasury, was Lloyd Bensten. > > Benson was off the air by 1988, actually last new show was in 1986, and > I do not remember if Benson DuBois ever got to be governor of whatever > state it was because I never watched the show, but Robert Guillaume was > one fine actor. He was outstanding on Sports Night. > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:42:25 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: HappY Fecking Birthday Dawg!!!! (NJC) Just had to duck in here real quick and wish my main dawg a very Happy Fecking Birthday (you old scorpio!). Julius I hope you have a beautiful day (actually tomorrow Monday) and may you get lucky too! Very sorry about your Giants, but the Angels wanted it more. Congrats to SoCal group! I will catch up with the list tomorrow and maybe we can have a birthday chat for Julius. A very lazy day today lying on the couch with the kids watching TV ALL FECKING DAY! Happy Birthday Julius!!! Love Paz P.S. I sent you a case of Geritol which should be delivered in time for your to party tomorrow night. Just remember to mix it with a little Viagra if you DO get lucky tomorrow. Hee hee! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:55:01 -0500 From: dsk Subject: NJC U.S. Politics [was Joni would want us to vote!] NJC Hejira924@aol.com wrote: > > 4) Get out there and vote Democrat on November 5, to give her and this > country a present a few days before her birthday. > No hostile replies necessary - what do you want to do? Take away my free > speech that Pres. Bush claims he is fighting for Iraqis? Put me on an airplane and > cause it to crash like some Timothy McVeigh must have done to Wellstone's plane? I > have nothing to fear, because Joni's music will always live on long after I am > gone. Oh, and by the way, here is another reason to hate me, as I am suffering from > recurring respiratory problems from having worked 3 blocks away from the World Trade > Center, and I am a witness that this government under Bush and Giuliani did > not do enough to protect us. > Have fun with your empty T.V. watching and C.D. listening, while you allow > your inaction to take away the last remnant of our democracy on November 5 by not > voting to keep the Senate Democratic. Hi Hejira, I'm not sure who you're talking to or why you're expressing such angst amongst this group. My guess is that most of the U.S. people on the jonilist will be voting and that most of those votes will be for a Democrat. That's a private decision for each of us. Even though I'm confused about who you're addressing, I can empathize with what seems to be your great anxiety at the moment about how things will turn out. And, since I was also a few blocks away on that day, I know about recurring respiratory problems, and anger and depression and worry and fear and I also have a fierce hope that the Democrats will be in control of Congress after the November elections, since I see the Republicans as creating more U.S. haters. Fierce to the point of being crazed about it sometimes. Fierce to the point of wondering if Wellstone's plane was tampered with, although I remind myself that I tend to see the worst when I'm under stress, so I'm trying to not even consider that a possibility and see it as just a tragic accident. So, along with you, Hejira, I'm hoping that most of the people in this country vote for a Democratic representative. Traditionally, people have often chosen the President from one party and Congress members from the other so there's some balance, and since more than half of the people in the country voted against Bush (which he instantly forgot once in office), I doubt that those voters have changed their mind, not with the tyrannical way Bush is behaving. Even my life-long Republican parents can't stomach him. So, there's hope. You may know of the "MoveOn" organization that Vince has mentioned a few times. I find that getting their e-mails helps lessen my stress about current political situations, including the upcoming elections. It helps to know that thousands of other people are feeling passionately about what's happening in this country, and that there are steps citizens can take to express their view. They give excellent information, from a liberal viewpoint. If you, or anyone else is interested, they're at http://www.moveonpac.org/moveonpac/. You can sign up for their e-mail updates there. There's probably a comparable conservative website, but I don't know its address. all the best to you, Hejira... And with a name like that, and being such a long-time fan, perhaps you have some joni stories to share, times you've seen her, favorite cd, enjoyable stuff like that... Debra Shea NP: The Anaheim Angels celebrating winning the world series, first time ever in their 42 years! They're happy! (and I'm still hoping Rodriguez comes to pitch for the NY Mets sometime) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:24:30 -0800 (PST) From: paul mccloud Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #432 i wonder if theres any chance tom waites and joni mitchell could do a cd together? - --- JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2002 > Volume 2002 : Number 432 > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by > Wally Breese, can be > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It > contains the latest news, > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, > lyrics and much much more. > > The JMDL website can be found at > http://www.jmdl.com and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, > archives, and much more. > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Today in History: October 17 > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > Re: Bali, NJC > ["kakki" ] > my feelings > [Cactustree78@aol.com] > Re: Nonesuch question NJC > [] > teach your children (and hello Walt!) NJC > [ReckersL@ebrd.com] > vocal ranges njm ["William > Chavez" ] > second part of a trilogy ["William > Chavez" ] > Joni on the music biz ["Marianne > Rizzo" ] > NJC Saying Hi > [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > Morning becomes Elektra [Gordon Mackie > ] > Re: Teach Your Children, NJC (and let your > children teach you!) ["Blair F] > Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC > [] > Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC > [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > Re: vocal ranges njm [Jenny > Goodspeed ] > Joni's artwork > [RoseMJoy@aol.com] > Re: Joni's artwork > [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > RE: Vocal ranges (now, NJC) > [] > travelogue album cover > [SMC1254@aol.com] > Framing > [James Leahy ] > (njc) We're number 5! We're number 5! > [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] > Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) > ["Brenda" ] > Re: Framing > [colin ] > Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) [Jerry > Notaro The Jungle Institution > [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] > NJC Re: (njc) We're number 5! We're number > 5! [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > Re: nonesuch > ["Brenda" ] > Re: Framing > [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > Re: nonesuch > [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= > ] > Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["Erica > Trudelle" vocal range NJC > [Tyler Hewitt ] > I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, > Man!!! [Susan McNamara RE: I am on a lonely road and I am not > traveling, Man!!! [Susan McNamara ] > Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > [Engwall57@aol.com] > Re: a new Joni page (for me) > [Engwall57@aol.com] > Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] > Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter > [RoseMJoy@aol.com] > Re: vocal range NJC > [AzeemAK@aol.com] > Re: nonesuch > [AzeemAK@aol.com] > Vocal range njc > [AzeemAK@aol.com] > Re:Travelogue. > [johnirving ] > Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Catherine > McKay ] > Re: Framing [Catherine > McKay ] > Vocal ranges/feedback (NJC) ["Timothy > Spong" ] > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:03:59 -0400 > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > Subject: Today in History: October 17 > > 2001: Joni paid a surprise visit, accompanied > by her daughter, Kilauren Gibb, to Hugh's Room, > a Toronto folk club, and sang a duet with her > old pal, Eric Andersen. The tune was Andersen's > classic 'Blue River', which she recorded with > him almost 30 years ago. > More info: > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm > > > > > > - ---- > For a comprehensive reference to Joni's > appearances, > consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of > Appearances: > http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:32:39 -0700 > From: "kakki" > Subject: Re: Bali, NJC > > Laurent wrote: > > > The sad truth is that human life doesn't have > the same value depending on > > location. Simple arithmetics: in order to get > media attention 5 American > lives = > > 500,000 Tibetans = 50,000 Kurds = 1 > Palestinian = 100,000 Tutsis. > > These numbers are just an example but you get > the idea. > > After thinking about it last night I basically > came to the same sorry > conclusion. They didn't get the attention and > payoff they craved until they > hit the big cheese, so to speak. > > > Who's to blame: Short attention spans? > Journalists? Violent movies? All > of > > the above? > > That's a good list for starters. Most people > in the world are self-absorbed > until it comes to their neighborhood. But even > knowing it is happening in > some place other than your own country and > being concerned - what can be > done? Intervening is seen by many as just as > wrong as looking the other > way. Damned either way to some extent. At > least now the whole world is > more aware and focused on the problem. At > least intelligence is being given > more of a priority and being shared and some > countries are working together > to thwart new plots and arrest the plotters. A > little late, but it's a > start. > > Kakki > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:21:40 -0400 > From: Cactustree78@aol.com > Subject: my feelings > > I think that Joni caouldnt have been more right > in her Rolling Stone interview and I thought > she looked fierce in the photo.. > Whatta beauty!!ANd her remarks were warranted > due to the fact that shes been screwed by the > business for so long she can finally speak > truthfully(albiet not for the first time) on > her feelings about the music industry..I mean > you only have to look as far as the cover of > the "Women in Rock" Rolling Stone to realize > how messed up music is today....Last time i > checked === message truncated === Y! 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