From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #439 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 23 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 439 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: October 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: October 22 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Travelogue themes ["kakki" ] Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather NJC [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather NJC [Jerry Notaro ] gallery, midway, and more ["jeff t." ] FW: Foreshadowing? ["flopit" ] jkonifest cds (NJC??) ["flopit" ] Joni on WFUV ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Joni on WFUV [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Renee Fleming (NJC) ["c Karma" ] Re: Joni on WFUV [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni on WFUV [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Speaking like a lesbian ["kerry" ] Re: Speaking like a lesbian [colin ] Re: Speaking like a lesbian [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Speaking like a lesbian [Jenny Goodspeed ] RE: Speaking like a lesbian ["Wally Kairuz" ] speaking like a lesbian njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: speaking like a lesbian njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: speaking like a lesbian njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Speaking like a lesbian [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Speaking like a lesbian ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Speaking Like A Lesbian ["Christopher Treacy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:04:24 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 22 1988: Joni performed a short set in San Remo, Italy. Mauro Regis writes "This was the second (and last) Joni's appearance in Italy after 1983 tour. She was prized with the Premio Tenco, and performed a solo set of about thirty minutes. She was cold and throat ill, but played an incredible set, with one of the early (or maybe the first) live performance of "Night Ride home", and a building up "Passion Play" with no words." - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 03:04:24 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 22 On October 22 the following items were published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Seattle Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981022st.cfm 2001: "Wonder, Joy and Magic" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Review - Appearance) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011022tgam.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:30:15 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Travelogue themes I kind of see two separate themes from a lyrical standpoint in the song selection on discs one and two. Disc one weaves and travels through Joni's various "global" observations of the human condition while disc two travels through the more personal phases and experiences of Joni and her life. (I also have a hunch that disc two includes some of her own personal favorites). As I read through the song list on disc one this is what ran through my head: The first three songs are about dreams and maybe three different kinds of impossible dreamers. Otis and Marlena, "dream on, dream on" but they continue to be myopically occupied with the shallow and banal while "Muslims stick up Washington," Joni puts on her big gossamer wings and channels Amelia's and her own impossible dreams and false alarms, and then tries to ward off the pesky "flat tires" that challenge the dream of sustaining a precious love relationship. Then a trilogy of songs present the ultimate word on the subject of Love; the ultimate words (for a generation) on the subject of war and peace, and then some of the most stark and stirring words ever written on slouching toward apocalyse. The next four songs are about struggles, sometimes sad and despairing and sometimes fierce, to overcome adversity and challenges and to fight for and maintain one's individual soul. Disc one ends asking God what he thinks of all of this sometimes small and sometimes epic epic travelogue of human drama and concludes without a final answer, other than God must be a Boogie Man and maybe the best we can do is keep boogying through it all ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:03:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather NJC <> I don't believe so, Kakki. Certainly not for lack of pictures (!), but just the logistics of creating, printing, and distributing artwork for an 8-cd set becomes pretty cumbersome. Of course anyone who has the time and/or software can make their own fairly easily. Glad you got them so quickly and even more glad that you're getting to enjoy the great music that was made there! <> Congrats on scoring the most excellent ducats! I look forward to another of your Klassik Kakki reviews! ;~) And while I'm thinking about the Jonifest CD tree, if any of you haven't heard from a branch or a leaf, or if there are any questions or problems, please let me know. So far I've heard nothing, so I'm assuming that no news is good news! :~) Bob NP: Phil Collins, "I've Been Trying" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:17:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Jonifest photos, CD and Stormy Weather NJC Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > < point? >> > > I don't believe so, Kakki. Certainly not for lack of pictures (!), but just > the logistics of creating, printing, and distributing artwork for an 8-cd > set becomes pretty cumbersome. Of course anyone who has the time and/or > software can make their own fairly easily. I have created my own using Ultimate Printer Plus. I'll be happy to share them with anyone who wants them. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:24:59 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? In a message dated 10/21/02 4:48:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is > photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it was sub-conscious? > Joel Bernstein took the photos for the album cover. Joni has said that Joel was the only photographer she would feel comfortable enough to take her clothes off for. Joel said" his intention was to express a line from "Lesson in Survival" about just such a view across a stretch of water" The Gap Ad is in Karen's "Both Sides Now" Across the middle of the painting, the words "self promotion" ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:49:49 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: too proud to beg for jonifest photos, njc www.hatstand.org/gallery in fact - there's no direct link from the frontpage of www.hatstand.org. One day, I'll fix that. - --Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On > Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) > Sent: 22 October 2002 06:04 > To: 2002 Northeastjonifest; Yael_2002 Harlap; Rose M. Joy; > Michael Paz_Apr2002; Michael Paz; Kate Bennett; Kakki; > AsharaProducLLC; _JMDL > Subject: Re: too proud to beg for jonifest photos, njc > > > Many of my JoniFest2002 photos are now up at Chris Marshall's www.hatstand.org There are a ton of neat pictures, filed by photographer. Enjoy. Lama ps, Please joni the JMDL Chat for "A Travelogue" on 19, November. Bob, "Mean Bob" Murphy said, >>>>>I have asked nicely. I have even pleaded and cajoled. But I ain't gonna beg for photos for the Jonifest 2002 page. Sometimes things just don't get done without a deadline, so with that in mind, my deadline for fest photos is Tuesday at midnight (Eastern US time). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:54:31 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Travelogue track listing On 19 Oct 2002 at 23:08, RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > > > > Oh, really? This is very interesting. I was hoping we'd get a sampling > before the release date. Where will the player be launched from, can u > tell us? > I know that it will be on the developer's site because they actually host the players. I'm sure there'll be a link on Nonesuch as well. B n.p.: NPR - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:59:58 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: gallery, midway, and more Hi This from a 1997 posting regarding Leonard Cohen (Subject: Various on LC) with quotes from "Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now" (Brian Hinton 1996) Discuss amongst yourselves... Ever faithful, Jeff P.S. I'm fearful that what I write has already been overly discussed...(picture a room full of JMDL's rolling their eyes with accompanying synchronized sighs of exasperation). Forgive me if this is the case. Hinton's book has many references to Leonard Cohen, mostly minor ones in the context of his Canadian-ness, along with Mitchell, Neil Young, etc. But there are some very interested comments, to wit: p. 79: Like Neil Young, Leonard Cohen is a companion--and compatriot--and not a threat. The two did not really meet until both had left Canada. Both are famed for their restlessness, geographically and in matters of the heart. Cohen appears in three of Joni's songs: in 'That Song About the Midway' [on _Clouds,_ Oct. 1969]--about their brief affair--he is a devil wearing wings. In 'The Gallery' [on _Clouds_] he is a saint, though a tainted one. 'Rainy Day House' [sic; = "Rainy Day Night," on _Ladies of the canyon,_ May 1970] is said to be a tender farewell from her to him, though he was the one who instigated the parting. He left his melancholy spell on her music: "I think I'm rather Cohen influenced. I wrote 'Marcie' and afterwards thought that it wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for 'Suzanne'." Cohen's influence has been verbal rather than musical, showing her how poetry can be integrated into the popular song. "My lyrics are influenced by Leonard. After we met at Newport last year (1967) we saw a lot of each other. Some of Leonard's religious imagery, which comes from being a Jew in a predominantly Catholic part of Canada, seems to have rubbed off on me too." Elsewhere, she described Cohen and Dylan as points of departure. "Leonard didn't really explore music. He's a word man first. Leonard's economical, he never wastes a word. I can go through Leonard's work and it's like silk. Dylan is coarse and beautiful in a rougher way." p. 94 (about events in 1969). Joni is also catching up on her reading. Herman Hesse, Leonard Cohen--"her favourite poet"--and Rod McKeun. ... p. 100 (about songs on _Clouds_): Side two opens with an extremely sinister item, 'The Gallery', supposedly about Leonard Cohen, and portraying a man as manipulative as the narrator of, say Robert Browning's poem 'My Last Duchess'. This lover collects women; like the traditional song 'Reynardine', there is the suggestion he might kill them. Like Rose, he appears brainwashed. ... p. 108 (about songs on _Ladies ..._): 'Rainy Night House' is a strange song, quietly underpinned by cello. Joni becomes a whole choir at one point. It's a gentle farewell to Leonard Cohen--a boy who gave up his inheritance to become 'a holy man on the FM radio'--who is gently parodied in the religious imagery she calls up. The way 'called' is used twice, in two different senses, is pure Joni. 'The Priest' [Incidentally, "The priest" is JM's song, not LC's "Priests".] is also Cohen territory, an agnostic age's nostalgic for faith, but given a sexual charge. ... p. 131 (about songs on _Blue,_ July 1971): 'A Case About You' returns to that lonely northern star, shining through the night. It could be both Nash and (more secretly) her lost daughter [note, reunited with Mitchell this spring] being bid goodbye to; the lyrics imply that love is never lost, but can be recreated in the memory, as if new born. Taylor [singer James Taylor, another lover] plays second guitar here, which, with the re-evocation of the devil in the second verse, suggests that he too could be the subject of the song. My own uninformed guess is that 'A Case About You' is about Leonard Cohen--though the couple had parted some years before. If so, this would explain its religious imagery, the map of Canada, the lines about northern stars, and particularly the phrase "love is touching souls," which sounds like neither Nash [singer Graham Nash, another lover] nor Taylor, but straight out of the mouth of 'Laughing Len' It is a deeply heretic song, in which the changing of Jesus's blood into holy wine transmutes into sexual love. Mind you, what exactly is the point of a wine you can drink twelve bottles of, and still remain standing? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:26:42 -0700 From: "flopit" Subject: FW: Foreshadowing? - ---- Original Message ---- From: flopit [flopit@mweb.co.za] Sent: 22-Oct-2002 21:25:51 To: JMDL Digest [les@jmdl.com] Cc: Subject: Foreshadowing? - --- hell wrote: > I was listening to a compilation tape of Joni > (thanks again, Ric!) in the car > the other day, and one set of lyrics from "The > Gallery" stood out: > > You studied to portray me > In ice and greens > And old blue jeans > And naked in the roses > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? & when she ran out of album covers - she posed for gap jeans "old blue jeans""?? ron np - victor - terrapin station - what a beautiful light, expressive touch on the piano...;.. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:52:32 -0700 From: "flopit" Subject: jkonifest cds (NJC??) just when i was getting my cd buying compulsion under control up pops these 8 wonderful discs now i *gotta* go out & buy all the discs available by all those artists on there cause theyre all just soooo damn good :-) many many thanks to bob who sent them & all those involved in this amazingly good compilation which anyone with half a brain will run out & get cause you aint gonna get 8 great cds for this price anywhere...(except perhaps 8 cds of joni live .....???) which brings me to my question. will anybody represented on these discs have a problem if i put them up as a cd tree on another list (the michelle shocked trading list). there are a lot of fans of great music on that list & id like to share this set. there is just such an amzing vibe about the whole thing that just comes thru so clearly in the music.... ron npimh Saturday morning found me itch'n To get on over to my gramdma's kitchen The sweetest little berries were cookin' up right And then we'd put 'em in a canning jar and seal it up tight We were makin' jam Strawberry jam If you want the best jam You've got to make your own Now we've got Smucker's, Welch's, and Knot's Berry Farm But a little homemade jam never did a body no harm A little local motion is all you really need To close down those corporate jam factories We were makin' jam Strawberry jam If you want the best jam You've got to make your own We've got a little revolution, and it's sweepin' the land Now once more everybody's makin' homemade jam Now you just call up your friends on the telephone You invite 'em on over to your house and make some jam of your own Strawberry Jam - Michelle Shocked - off Arkansas Traveller - a truly great album.. michelles run in with & comments regarding the music industry makes jonis comments look positively meek & mild....:-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:00:07 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Joni on WFUV At WFUV.ORG on the "Coming Up" page, this: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 7 6 AM-Midnight, City Folk: We'll serve up a case of Joni Mitchell on her birthday. Suggested by WFUV members Scott Goldman and Susanne Richter. Noon, Under the Covers: The songs of Joni Mitchell get covered. I just love this station. Sybil NP: WFUV, Joni "Court and Spark", I swear, right now it's playing. _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:17:28 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni on WFUV <> Sybil, Tell those cats if they want to get CREATIVE with this show to give me a call! :~) David Dye did one of these a couple years back and I found it to be pretty predictable but then again I guess not EVERYBODY makes a life's work out of collecting Joni covers... Bob NP: Jean Knight, "Mr. Big Stuff" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:22:09 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Renee Fleming (NJC) Renee is truly one of Albany, NY's best exports! While in LA several years ago, a radio station played her version of Gershwin's "Summertime." I was in the car driving and had to pull off the road, having been so mesmerized by her simple, elegant reading. The jock didn't announce who the artist was and I spent almost two weeks finding someone at the station who was able to trace the playlist back to the date and time of its playing. Wow, and how. CC "...and any eye for detail caught a little lace along the seams." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:57:46 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on WFUV Muller writes: << I guess not EVERYBODY makes a life's work out of collecting Joni covers... >> Yes, Bob, that's true. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:04:13 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on WFUV In a message dated 10/22/02 6:58:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > I guess not EVERYBODY makes a life's work out of collecting Joni covers... > >> > > Yes, Bob, that's true. > > --Bob > They are airing a Springsteen covers special on that station Friday Oct. 25th rose ducking for covers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:19:44 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Speaking like a lesbian I just read Rolling Stone's latest interview with Joni and thought this part was strange: RS - Is that why the vocals on your new album sound so much more womanly and sexy? Joni - "Yeah, the soprano is a girly tone, just by the nature of it. You will notice American women -- because this is such a youth culture - speak unnecessarily high compared to women around the world. Women in Europe frequently talk with low voices, but here somebody is ready to call you a lesbian at the drop of a hat. You know, they want to check for hair on your chest or something. America is weird that way." All I can say is, huh?!? First of all, hasn't her voice lowered substantially from, oh, let's see..... cigarettes, maybe? Second, I was wondering if any of the world travelers on this list have ever noticed a difference in the way women speak in different countries? Maybe I'm naive, but I thought people basically speak in whatever voice they've been given. Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 02:21:52 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian kerry wrote: > I just read Rolling Stone's latest interview with Joni and thought this part > was strange: > > RS - Is that why the vocals on your new album sound so much more womanly and > sexy? > > Joni - "Yeah, the soprano is a girly tone, just by the nature of it. You > will notice American women -- because this is such a youth culture - speak > unnecessarily high compared to women around the world. > > Second, I was wondering if any of the world travelers on this list have ever > noticed a difference in the way women speak in different countries? Maybe > I'm naive, but I thought people basically speak in whatever voice they've > been given. I am astonished to read this! One thing i have laways thought about American and Canadian women is that their voices are low compared to anywhere else! In fact I recently spoke to a lister on the phone amnd made that very comment. (It didn't occur to me that all American/Canadian women were lesbian.) I am not sure I like Joni's comment about hair and lesbians really. Leaves a bad taste. > > > Kerry - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:39:30 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian Colin writes: << One thing i have laways thought about American and Canadian women is that their voices are low compared to anywhere else! >> That's odd. Whenever I have heard British women imitate American women (actually, I am thinking of two cases here) they do a high-pitched, grating, Southern or Midwestern kind of voice. ("Hah! How're yeeeew?") Interesting to see Joni bash lesbians, though. We had a discussion about her trashing male homos a couple of years ago, but that quotation was from the 70s. For a genius, sometimes she really sounds like a totally out-of-touch idiot. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:47:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian I suppose there are regional differences, but my voice teacher says American women often speak lower than they should - i.e. ideally they would speak higher given the voice mechanism they were born with, but it is difficult for women to be taken seriously when they speak in a higher voice. Jenny kerry wrote:I just read Rolling Stone's latest interview with Joni and thought this part was strange: RS - Is that why the vocals on your new album sound so much more womanly and sexy? Joni - "Yeah, the soprano is a girly tone, just by the nature of it. You will notice American women -- because this is such a youth culture - speak unnecessarily high compared to women around the world. Women in Europe frequently talk with low voices, but here somebody is ready to call you a lesbian at the drop of a hat. You know, they want to check for hair on your chest or something. America is weird that way." All I can say is, huh?!? First of all, hasn't her voice lowered substantially from, oh, let's see..... cigarettes, maybe? Second, I was wondering if any of the world travelers on this list have ever noticed a difference in the way women speak in different countries? Maybe I'm naive, but I thought people basically speak in whatever voice they've been given. Kerry Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:44:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Speaking like a lesbian like... there are no lesbian sopranos or hetero contraltos? astonishing news. sometimes joni baffles me. wallyK - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Octubre de 2002 10:40 p.m. Para: colin@tantra-apso.com; myrtlmoo@ticon.net CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Speaking like a lesbian Colin writes: << One thing i have laways thought about American and Canadian women is that their voices are low compared to anywhere else! >> That's odd. Whenever I have heard British women imitate American women (actually, I am thinking of two cases here) they do a high-pitched, grating, Southern or Midwestern kind of voice. ("Hah! How're yeeeew?") Interesting to see Joni bash lesbians, though. We had a discussion about her trashing male homos a couple of years ago, but that quotation was from the 70s. For a genius, sometimes she really sounds like a totally out-of-touch idiot. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:13:05 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: speaking like a lesbian njc I guess I read this differently. Reads to me like she is decrying the homophobia in America, which is prevalent. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:12:20 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian Bob wrote: > Interesting to see Joni bash lesbians, though. We had a discussion about her > trashing male homos a couple of years ago, but that quotation was from the > 70s. I'm not sure she's really bashing lesbians. She's just saying that people want to call you a lesbian if you have a low voice. It was just a weird comment. No one has ever called Kathleen Turner a lesbian! :>) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:15:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: speaking like a lesbian njc In a message dated 10/22/2002 11:06:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, courtandspark@earthlink.net writes: > "I guess I read this differently. Reads to me like she is decrying the > homophobia in America, which is prevalent." And to me it sounded like a classic statement of denial from someone who didn't want to admit the damage of their addiction. Bob NP: The deep-voiced chick, "Man From Mars" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:27:07 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: speaking like a lesbian njc SCJoniGuy wrote: And to me it sounded like a classic statement of denial from someone who didn't want to admit the damage of their addiction. I kind of like her deeper voice as well. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:22:56 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: speaking like a lesbian njc Mack, I also read it as decrying dumbminded stereotyping, which some people tend to do. My mother has an unnaturally low voice - she was born with it - was made fun of as a kid, and has had to endure a lot of stuff because of it all her life. Every time she speaks on the telephone to a business, she is addressed as "mister" and "sir" and people who don't know her often say "she's one tough old broad" or that she reminds them of Bea Arthur in "Maude" (ack) when in reality she like neither of those descriptions and is a very sensitive and vulnerable person. Awhile back she had to have surgery on her throat and it left her with this part helium, part basso profundo voice for a long time - poor thing! I think when Joni talks about American women speaking in an unnaturally high voice, she may be thinking about what she hears a lot in Southern California - there is a sort of Cheerleader/Valley/Surfer girl vocal affectation that runs through the speech here (and which I, too, succumb to at times :-) Kakki > I guess I read this differently. Reads to me like she is decrying the > homophobia in America, which is prevalent. > > Mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:45:15 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian Kerry writes: << I'm not sure she's really bashing lesbians. She's just saying that people want to call you a lesbian if you have a low voice. It was just a weird comment. >> Weird is right. With her romantic past, Joni is about the last woman in the world who should be concerned about being called a lesbian. But the fact that she *is* concerned is what I find troubling. To me she sounds as small minded as she often makes Myrtle out to be. In her defense, though, it would have been helpful to see and hear her say this comment. God knows I wouldn't want to be judged by my words in print! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:46:8 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Speaking like a lesbian > I'm not sure she's really bashing lesbians. She's just saying that people > want to call you a lesbian if you have a low voice. It was just a weird > comment. No one has ever called Kathleen Turner a lesbian! :>) Yeah...that was my impression, that it was just a weird comment. I know someone in Atlanta who sings and has a rather low voice but it never occurred to me to think that she was a lesbian. Her comment though reminds me of that reporter a month or so ago who seemed to be insinuating that all folk singers were lesbian women. Victor ps. coming down with a nasty cold...hope it goes away! pps. As we were leaving the studio today to go to lunch, which is in Chris' basement, when a guy pulled up in a van and tried to pull that classic scam of having brand new speakers in the back of the van that "just happened" to not fit on the "truck" that he would sell to us for very cheap..."I know this sounds crazy..." he began his speil...how pathetic....we just said no thanks and continued on our way. The sad thing is there are people out there that will fall for that crap. "The world is full of kings and queens, Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams, It's heaven and hell..." Black Sabbath (rediscovering and appreciation for metal these days...) - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 0:7:8 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: Speaking Like A Lesbian Well,I don't think Joni is trashing lesbians, but I do think that we must face the facts....sometimes even the most brilliant of folks talk out of their asses. This wouldn't be the first time. When I first started making more a science of collecting JM, I can recall my ex pissing and moaning about all the patter between songs and 'unnecessary pontificating' in interviews. My views on JM's free spirited commentary about the world have never reached the ultra-critical like his, but every now and again she drops a doozie. Then he and I would fight because I would try and defend something Joni had said on stage or in an interview...it'd always end in tears. Now that there's some distance between us, and I don't have to take it all so personally, I can see that sometimes Joni speaks very much 'off the cuff' - but what makes for her most interesting insights can also translate into a train wreck. In thinking about it further, it HAS always been my impression (albeit unconscious until now) that women of certain European ethnicities speak with a deeper voice, but this may also be an unfortunate stereotype (Husky Germans, Russians, Scandinavians, etc....metal bras and the like...) drummed in by years of media conditioning. It also might just be that more European women smoke as heavily as Joni does (lol). -ChrisNP: Tori Amos - 'Taxi Ride' from the forthcoming "Scarlet's Walk" (finally got the whole thing just this very evening...I'm BLOWN AWAY!!!!) --- Christopher Treacy--- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:26:34 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: speaking like a lesbian njc That's what I thought, too. Mark E in Seattle > I guess I read this differently. Reads to me like she is decrying the > homophobia in America, which is prevalent. > > Mack ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #439 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)