From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #437 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 22 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 437 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: precariousness NJC [] Foreshadowing? ["hell" ] Re: precariousness NJC [colin ] Re: Foreshadowing? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Renee Fleming on Joni [Deb Messling ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Renee Fleming on Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Catherine McKay ] Fw: njc argument and war ["kasey simpson" ] weekend with Bree and Joni njc ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Mags N Brei ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Mags N Brei ] Re: weekend with Bree and Joni njc [colin ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Foreshadowing? [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Foreshadowing? ["Erica Trudelle" ] Too feminine for rock? ["William Chavez" ] Re: Joni biting the hand [Engwall57@aol.com] Fw: weekend with Bree and Joni njc ["kasey simpson" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #436 [paul mccloud ] Re: Fw: weekend with Bree and Joni njc [colin ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Milk haters - singing NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Foreshadowing? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Foreshadowing? - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Milk haters - singing NJC ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc [Patti Witten ] Re: Milk haters - singing NJC [Jerry Notaro ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:09:45 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 21 On October 21 the following item was published: 1997: "Jackson Browne: Joni's new tune is a low blow" - National Enquirer (News Item, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971021ne.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:18:31 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: precariousness NJC Hi Debra! Thanks for the concern and for sending positive vibes. The bombing in Kidapawan, in the southern portion of Moslem Mindanao came a mere three days after the Bali incident. Within minutes there were a lot of text messages sent through cellphones that within 72 hours, we all should stay away from malls, public conveyances, terminals and other crowded places. Even if we know that some of these are clearly tactics to scare the already scared Filipinos in the wake of the bali incident, malls and public places were notable for the scarcity of people. Its almost like the Holy Week. As if the Mindanao bombing was not enough, a bus exploded late Friday night and killed 3 people and seriously injured others. While yesterday, another bombing in Mindanao again happened and claimed lives of Filipinos, and one American Marine. Today's newspaper reported the death of that Marine and with scant mention of the other Filipinos who also lost their lives. Things changed fast. Even my plans for further studies in the US. I made significant progress with one university in North Carolina for my PhD, but now I am having serious doubts. Not that it has anything to do with being in the US as a foreigner, a stranger, a Eurasian, but how the local US embassies are making impossible demands for proofs of identification to those who plan to go to the US. Even people in the academe. This war certainly had repercussions in ALL aspects of any human life right now. Unbelievable. > > I've just seen a report that there's been another bombing in the > southern Philippines. It's not clear what's going on there, but I want > to say that you and everyone living with the violence in the > Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia are very much on my mind. And Lori > is, too, along with all the other Washington/Richmond-area people. > (Ruth, how are you doing?) My NYC fears are only in my imagination these > days, and just that's enough to make me tense most days. It's got to be > frightening and horribly stressful being in those areas now. I listen to a lot of classical pieces lately and Joni's S&L. Gorecki's funereal 3rd symphony is particularly calming especially if its Dawn Upshaw (hi there, Wally K.) who sings it. Ennio Morricone's weeping violins and cellos were oddly in sync, too. Not that I am putting on Verdi's Requiem next but even if I want to boost my morale with upbeat music, I am finding more relaxation in the music of the musicians whose works gave me a glimpse of the opposite of joy. > I'm trying to figure out what Joni music to play to make it all go away > (or at least to feel less anxiety about what's happening in the world > these days), and haven't come up with anything yet. DED maybe with all > that "world" concern? (No, I hate that cd :-) Hejira might work. After > listening to that I always feel like any journey, even the most > difficult, will turn out all right in the end. > > Take care all, Take care too to fellow JMDLers. Joseph in Manila > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:49:18 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Foreshadowing? I was listening to a compilation tape of Joni (thanks again, Ric!) in the car the other day, and one set of lyrics from "The Gallery" stood out: You studied to portray me In ice and greens And old blue jeans And naked in the roses Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is photographed in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure coincidence, or does anyone think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it was sub-conscious? I thought it was interesing, anyway, and I don't think it's been discussed here before (although I may be wrong)..... Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:09:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: precariousness NJC > This war > certainly had repercussions in ALL aspects of any human life right now. > Unbelievable. > an aquaintance of mine has recently moved here from Denmark to work on the child abuse team of a London Borough(she previuosly worked with Palestinian torture victims). So far she has been unable to open a bank account. She has to provide so much in the way of 'offical documents' that it is taking a long time. It used to be that you could just open an account. not any more. they ahev to make sure you are not a terrorist. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:19:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? "Is this pure coincidence, or does anyone think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it was sub-conscious?" Yeah, that's pretty interesting Hell...it could also be added that her last couple of records with paintings in frames make up "The Gallery"...my own take on it is that the coincidence is just that, but who knows. I don't know much about the making of many of these record covers & would love to learn more. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:20:42 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Renee Fleming on Joni Here's what Renee Fleming had to say in the NY Times of 10/19: Renie Fleming: America's Soprano of Choice(Page 3 of 3) But jazz, she pointed out, did not enter the picture until she was in her 20's. Her passion as a youngster growing up in a household of professional musicians was musical theater. Thanks to an ambitious English teacher, Rochester high school students were performing the likes of the complete "My Fair Lady" and "The Sound of Music" at what Ms. Fleming remembers as "a very high level." Twice she played Eliza Doolittle; another year she played the Mother Abbess, who sings "Climb Ev'ry Mountain." Advertisement "Just now," Ms. Fleming said with the surge of sudden revelation, "just yesterday, it dawned on me that my primary talent is versatility. I can't mimic accents when I'm talking, but I can mimic vocal styles. It allows me to do a lot of different genres. That's not something most people in the business see as a plus."Our culture worships (or we think it does) at the shrine of sincerity. Frank Sinatra did it his way: our kind of guy. Mimicry raises the specter of artifice, the antithesis of sincerity. Ms. Fleming's well-documented obsession with other performers' renditions of the music she sings only aggravates suspicion. As reported in The New Yorker, before singing "God Bless America" at Ground Zero, she acquired recordings of the piece by 10 artists, from Celine Dion to Kate Smith. "They were not helpful," she said. In preparation for "Il Pirata," she collected "a bunch of pirates," unauthorized releases of historic recordings.The point is not to copy but to seek inspiration. Still, Ms. Fleming's eclecticism continues to make some people nervous. Just now, she has decided to let that be their problem. "They want you to be one thing," she said. "But I think I'm going to stop apologizing and embrace the situation wholeheartedly. The secret that will make or break everything is integrity. That and quality at the highest level."As a matter of record, Ms. Fleming has sung Mozart in Salzburg, Wagner in Bayreuth, Massenet in Paris, Richard Strauss in Munich, Andri Previn in San Francisco: hardly the track record of a specialist. But her thoughts turned rather to her idol, the Canadian singer and songwriter Joni Mitchell."From her folk roots, Joni Mitchell went off on so many tangents," Ms. Fleming said. "Jazz, including the brilliant tribute to Charlie Mingus. World music. Rock. Pop. I bought all the albums and stayed interested, because everything she did retained real integrity. She's a great model for any recording artist fortunate enough to attain longevity. Of course, I liked some of her albums better than others. But her example gives me the courage to perform and record a very broad repertory. That said, Richard Strauss will always be core." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:45:25 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Hell writes: << Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years later - and is photographed in "greens" for the cover of FTR. >> And don't forget the "ice" on the cover of Hejira! Far out, Hell! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:25:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Renee Fleming on Joni Deb Messling wrote: > As a matter of record, Ms. Fleming has sung Mozart in > Salzburg, Wagner in Bayreuth, Massenet in Paris, Richard Strauss in Munich, > Andri Previn in San Francisco: hardly the track record of a specialist. But > her thoughts turned rather to her idol, the Canadian singer and songwriter > Joni Mitchell."From her folk roots, Joni Mitchell went off on so many > tangents," Ms. Fleming said. "Jazz, including the brilliant tribute to > Charlie Mingus. World music. Rock. Pop. I bought all the albums and stayed > interested, because everything she did retained real integrity. She's a > great model for any recording artist fortunate enough to attain longevity. > Of course, I liked some of her albums better than others. But her example > gives me the courage to perform and record a very broad repertory. That > said, Richard Strauss will always be core." I have always been a big fan of Renee's. I think Joni would be thrilled at being in the same league with Richard Strauss, another favorite composer of mine. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:58:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? --- hell wrote: > I was listening to a compilation tape of Joni > (thanks again, Ric!) in the car > the other day, and one set of lyrics from "The > Gallery" stood out: > > You studied to portray me > In ice and greens > And old blue jeans > And naked in the roses > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? Excellent observation, Hell. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Joni did this deliberately as an in-joke. However, I also think that sometimes genius does things and only later comes up with the reason why (in other words, as you've already stated, subconsciously.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:15:39 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: njc argument and war Colin, I liked the whole article. It puts this one clip into perspective. It's also good advice when trying to sift through all the b.s. It is the 'facts' that stand out in all this debate. Not the hype of either side. Thanks for posting this link and I hope more people read it. Kasey http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/baloney.htm and a quote form it: weasel words (e.g., The separation of powers of the U.S. Constitution specifies that the United States may not conduct a war without a declaration of Congress. On the other hand, Presidents are given control of foreign policy and the conduct of wars, which are potentially powerful tools for getting themselves re-elected. Presidents of either political party may therefore be tempted to arrange wars while waving the flag and calling the wars something else -- "police actions," "armed incursions," "protective reaction strikes," "pacification," "safeguarding American interests," and a wide variety of "operations," such as "Operation Just Cause." Euphemisms for war are one of a broad class of reinventions of language for political purposes. Talleyrand said, "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public"). - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:24:04 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: weekend with Bree and Joni njc I just wanted to let everyone know I had the chance to spend time with a true Joni fan. Bree was kind enough to have me over for dinner (which was fabulous) and a Joni tutorial. We watched a Joni video, I paid homage to her shrine, and of course played her CDs. I can't say I'm any more or less a fan, just a bit more informed. Thanks Bree for a wonderful time. I truly enjoyed myself. Next time, my house, and we order out.....I'm not a very good cook. KaseyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? - --- hell wrote: > > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? good observation Hell. And let's not forget the clues which lie within Little Green, hints at the obvious and not so obvious story. Who knew at the time of the release of Blue that Joni had lost a daughter to adoption? Speaking of connections, I've always felt that River went along with Little Green ... while I know it appears later in the album, and I realize it is about her lover, the line " I made my baby say goodbye" stood out for me as possibly speaking in reference to her daughter too. Something so haunting within that line. The notion of a double entendre there may be far fetched, however I feel that close alignment imho to the sorrow that is evident throughout this album, and now that we know one of the sources of deep sorrow for Joni, it makes me wonder. Joni wants to know what a song means to us, so that's my story, my connection, the river flows between the two of them. Works for me. Don't interrupt the sorrow, darn right.... Mags You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? i need to add something to my original post here sorry! Mags N Brei wrote: - --- hell wrote: > > > Then Joni poses naked "for the roses" three years > later - and is photographed > in "greens" for the cover of FTR. Is this pure > coincidence, or does anyone > think Joni might have thought of this? Or maybe it > was sub-conscious? good observation Hell. And let's not forget the clues which lie within Little Green, hints at the obvious and not so obvious story. Who knew at the time of the release of Blue that Joni had lost a daughter to adoption? Speaking of connections, I've always felt that River went along with Little Green ... while I know it appears later in the album, and I realize it is about her lover, the line " I made my baby say goodbye" stood out for me as possibly speaking in reference to her daughter too. Something so haunting within that line. The notion of a double entendre there may be far fetched, however I feel that close alignment imho to the sorrow that is evident throughout this album, and now that we know one of the sources of deep sorrow for Joni, it makes me wonder. Joni wants to know what a song means to us, so that's my story, my connection, the river flows between the two of them. Works for me. Don't interrupt the sorrow, darn right.... and in addition... if you look at the lines earlier in the song, i feel the above connection there too: I'm selfish and I'm sad Now I've gone and lost the best baby that I've ever had morning thoughts. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:58:42 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: weekend with Bree and Joni njc kasey simpson wrote: > Bree was kind enough > to have me over for dinner so what did he taste like Bree? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:03:22 -0400 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? hi hell! (and you are welcome! its an interesting way to listen to joni, isn't it? having the old stuff juxtaposed with the more recent? "joni - out of order!") anyway, i think this is a very interesting question you raise and i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. i have often wondered myself (assuming the gallery is autobiographical, and it sounds as if it is) if those lyrics mean there is a nude of joni out there somewhere! but i never made the very interesting connection between those lines and the nude shot on for the roses. i think that is kind of fascinating... and did i dream this, or has anyone else heard that the subject of the gallery was supposed to be leonard cohen. i thot i read that somewhere... ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:12:15 -0400 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? In a message dated 10/21/2002 10:03:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ricw1217 writes: > i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. OOPS!!! by the way, just in case, that was not meant to imply that those of you who have ALREADY responded to this thread don't have "real" insight! just carelessness...no offense intended... ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:04:23 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? "And naked in the roses" I was also thinking about this line the other day, I was wondering if the art director for "American Beauty" was a Joni fan, in reference to the infamous naked girl covered in falling rose petal shot that is played several times in the movie. Sorry for those of you who haven't seen the movie, but I feel SOMEONE must've been humming "The Gallery" when they created this scene. Anyone remember it?? Erica _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:09:37 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: Too feminine for rock? This was a very informative article. It is hard to believe that an organization could be sooooooooo sexist as to neglect someone with Joni's talent. Ask Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin,(the list goes on and on....)on who they would have inducted. Out of every 10 ROCK N ROLL articles I read, I can safely say that over 50% of the artist name Joni as an influence. Many describe her as a STRONG influence. Many of them are MEN!!!! Surely as musician's musician she should have attained easy entry. I don't know how many of you have seen the most recent Joni concert where Graham Nash gives Joni the Hall of Fame award that she refused to pick up at the actual ceremony. He gave it to her in a brown paper trash bag and she stated "How appropriate". Can't say I blame her. At times it's almost difficult to blame Joni for her "bitchiness"(sorry, I promise to never use the F word). I have come across a lot of these old articles that you guys are sending me but some of them I'm sure I've never seen. Most of my friend know that they are to rip out of a magazine (or photocopy)anything Joni!!! Bravo to whoever is in charge of digging out all this stuff from magazine vault and old used book stores. Will _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:07:51 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni biting the hand FTR? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:13:17 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: weekend with Bree and Joni njc Colin, Like the big chicken I am:) What makes you think I'm a he? I could be a she. Kasey kasey simpson wrote: > Bree was kind enough > to have me over for dinner so what did he taste like Bree?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT) From: paul mccloud Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #436 kiwis are good for singing i think. if milk is bad is cheese bad too? so were supposed to give up pizza? doesnt milk drinking go way back where god tells the jews he will give them a land flowing with milk and honey? some new agers hate milk.. why? - --- JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Monday, October 21 2002 > Volume 2002 : Number 436 > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by > Wally Breese, can be > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It > contains the latest news, > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, > lyrics and much much more. > > The JMDL website can be found at > http://www.jmdl.com and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, > archives, and much more. > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Today's Library Links: October 20 > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > RE: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > ["Chris Marshall" Joni's Gap Ad > [MGVal@aol.com] > Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad ["Bree > Mcdonough" Re: vocal range ["Bree Mcdonough" > ] > Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc > [Catherine McKay House Of Blues and bloody mary... NJC > [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup Travelogue Promo ["patricia van nunen" > ] > Diana Krall Case of You on XPN ["Jim > L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Shadows and Light [James Phillips > ] > Re: Travelogue Promo [Jerry Notaro > ] > precariousness NJC > [dsk ] > njc argument and war > [colin ] > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:08:09 -0400 > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > Subject: Today's Library Links: October 20 > > On October 20 the following items were > published: > > 2001: "Atwood, Mitchell on Walk of Fame" - > Toronto Star > (News Item) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020ts.cfm > > 2001: "Rodin Thinkers to the Rom: We think not, > thank you" - Toronto Globe and Mail > (News Item) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm > > > - -------- > Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:38:37 +0100 > From: "Chris Marshall" > Subject: RE: too proud to beg for jonifest > photos > > Erk. There's still one or two people to whom I > owe a password for them to upload photos. Mea > Culpa. > Been away a lot recently. > > John Moore, I know, I've been supposed to sort > this > out for ages. Also, a last shout out to anyone > else > who wants a password and a section of site to > upload > to. I'll deal with it this evening. > > Regards, > > - --Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com > [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On > > Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com > > Sent: 20 October 2002 07:28 > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > > > > > > I have asked nicely. > > > > I have even pleaded and cajoled. > > > > But I ain't gonna beg for photos for the > Jonifest 2002 page. > > > > Sometimes things just don't get done without > a deadline, so > > with that in > > mind, my deadline for fest photos is Tuesday > at midnight > > (Eastern US time). > > > > If I don't have your photo disc by then, or > if you haven't > > uploaded your > > photos to Chris Marshall's hatstand.com site, > they won't be > > on the Jonifest > > 2002 page. > > > > Thank you to everyone who has contributed. > There are many spectacular > > photographs from this incredible weekend, so > the page should > > be great. > > > > It would have been nice to have a few more > photographs, but > > the fest was > > almost two months ago, so . . . as Janis once > said, "That's it!" > > > > --Bob > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:24:22 EDT > From: MGVal@aol.com > Subject: Joni's Gap Ad > > JennyMac asked: > > > Does anyone know where we can view this > picture? > > > Can't tell you that but I think that somewhere > on Wally's website is a photo > of Joni's (in my opinion doofy), ad for a PETA > like group. I'm stretching my > brain cells here but I saw this ad back at the > very first pre-Ashara JoniFest > and it had a Gap like feeling. > > And as I type this out, I'm starting to think: > didn't I see her in a > Blackgama ad for one of those "what becomes a > legend most?" campaigns. Nearly > sure I'm not mixing her up with the one done by > Lillian Helman. (:-D > > MG - testing out not lurking as much > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:02:06 -0400 > From: "Bree Mcdonough" > > Subject: Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad > > Excellent!! I love your dramatic color scheme. > My sister and I are doing a > carved pumpkin of Joni....cig and all. (a > beautiful way to spend an autumn > Sunday afternoon) IF it turns out decent..I'll > send it as an attachment. > > Bree > > >http://www.jmdl.com/wanderer/jonipastel.htm > > > >Received the Jonifest discs yesterday (thanks > Jody!!!) and am really > >enjoying listening to you talented people. > > > >have a great weekend, suemc > >-- > > ____________________ > > /____________________\ > > ||-------------------|| > > || Sue McNamara || > > || sem8@cornell.edu || > === message truncated === Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:12:20 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Fw: weekend with Bree and Joni njc kasey simpson wrote: > What makes > you think I'm a he? I could be a she. yes you could. as long as you know which you are, that is all that matters..... > > Kasey > > kasey simpson wrote: > > > Bree was kind enough > > to have me over for dinner > > so what did he taste like Bree?Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer > download : http://explorer.msn.com - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:16:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? <> Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. However, I do think Joni's phrase merits some further examination...I would imagine that it would be some precarious modeling to be "naked in the roses", what with thorns and such. ;~) Bob NP: Dexter Gordon, "For All We Know" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Milk haters - singing NJC Speaking as a singer, cheese makes me just as phlegmy as milk does. I use to drink 1-2 glasses of milk everyday. I also had daily sinus problems that I chalked up to a familial trait. I stopped drinking milk, I don't even remember why, and noticed one day that I didn't have sinus problems anymore. And the reason my family had "bad" sinuses was because we all drank lots of milk. There are a few problem with cow's milk. The proteins are large and difficult for many people to digest. Many people are allergic to these proteins - especially children. And a suprisingly large proportion of the American population have difficulty digesting the sugar lactose in cow's milk. Although I use soy milk as an alternative. The proteins in soy are also very large and there is a tendency for children to have soy allergies as well. Perhaps the land was flowing with goat's milk and honey. That's supposed to be easier to digest - though I'm not sure how it tastes! ;) Jenny - --- paul mccloud wrote: > kiwis are good for singing i think. > > if milk is bad is cheese bad too? > > so were supposed to give up pizza? > doesnt milk drinking go way back where god tells > the jews he will give them a land flowing with > milk and honey? > > some new agers hate milk.. why? > > --- JMDL Digest wrote: > > > > JMDL Digest Monday, October 21 2002 > > Volume 2002 : Number 436 > > > > > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by > > Wally Breese, can be > > found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It > > contains the latest news, > > a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, > > lyrics and much much more. > > > > The JMDL website can be found at > > http://www.jmdl.com and contains > > interviews, articles, the member gallery, > > archives, and much more. > > ========== > > > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > > -------- > > Today's Library Links: October 20 > > [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > > RE: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > > ["Chris Marshall" > Joni's Gap Ad > > [MGVal@aol.com] > > Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad ["Bree > > Mcdonough" > Re: vocal range ["Bree Mcdonough" > > ] > > Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc > > [Catherine McKay > House Of Blues and bloody mary... NJC > > [Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup > Travelogue Promo ["patricia van nunen" > > ] > > Diana Krall Case of You on XPN ["Jim > > L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" > Shadows and Light [James Phillips > > ] > > Re: Travelogue Promo [Jerry Notaro > > ] > > precariousness NJC > > [dsk ] > > njc argument and war > > [colin ] > > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 03:08:09 -0400 > > From: ljirvin@jmdl.com > > Subject: Today's Library Links: October 20 > > > > On October 20 the following items were > > published: > > > > 2001: "Atwood, Mitchell on Walk of Fame" - > > Toronto Star > > (News Item) > > > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020ts.cfm > > > > 2001: "Rodin Thinkers to the Rom: We think not, > > thank you" - Toronto Globe and Mail > > (News Item) > > > > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm > > > > > > - -------- > > Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:38:37 +0100 > > From: "Chris Marshall" > > Subject: RE: too proud to beg for jonifest > > photos > > > > Erk. There's still one or two people to whom I > > owe a password for them to upload photos. Mea > > Culpa. > > Been away a lot recently. > > > > John Moore, I know, I've been supposed to sort > > this > > out for ages. Also, a last shout out to anyone > > else > > who wants a password and a section of site to > > upload > > to. I'll deal with it this evening. > > > > Regards, > > > > - --Chris > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com > > [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On > > > Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com > > > Sent: 20 October 2002 07:28 > > > To: joni@smoe.org > > > Subject: too proud to beg for jonifest photos > > > > > > > > > I have asked nicely. > > > > > > I have even pleaded and cajoled. > > > > > > But I ain't gonna beg for photos for the > > Jonifest 2002 page. > > > > > > Sometimes things just don't get done without > > a deadline, so > > > with that in > > > mind, my deadline for fest photos is Tuesday > > at midnight > > > (Eastern US time). > > > > > > If I don't have your photo disc by then, or > > if you haven't > > > uploaded your > > > photos to Chris Marshall's hatstand.com site, > > they won't be > > > on the Jonifest > > > 2002 page. > > > > > > Thank you to everyone who has contributed. > > There are many spectacular > > > photographs from this incredible weekend, so > > the page should > > > be great. > > > > > > It would have been nice to have a few more > > photographs, but > > > the fest was > > > almost two months ago, so . . . as Janis once > > said, "That's it!" > > > > > > --Bob > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 09:24:22 EDT > > From: MGVal@aol.com > > Subject: Joni's Gap Ad > > > > JennyMac asked: > > > > > Does anyone know where we can view this > > picture? > > > > > > Can't tell you that but I think that somewhere > > on Wally's website is a photo > > of Joni's (in my opinion doofy), ad for a PETA > > like group. I'm stretching my > > brain cells here but I saw this ad back at the > > very first pre-Ashara JoniFest > > and it had a Gap like feeling. > > > > And as I type this out, I'm starting to think: > > didn't I see her in a > > Blackgama ad for one of those "what becomes a > > legend most?" campaigns. Nearly > > sure I'm not mixing her up with the one done by > > Lillian Helman. (:-D > > > > MG - testing out not lurking as much > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:02:06 -0400 > > From: "Bree Mcdonough" > > > > Subject: Re: Second Fret songs and the gap ad > > > > Excellent!! I love your dramatic color scheme. > > My sister and I are doing a > > carved pumpkin of Joni....cig and all. (a > > beautiful way to spend an autumn > > Sunday afternoon) IF it turns out decent..I'll > > send it as an attachment. > > > > Bree > === message truncated === Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:31:55 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Bob Muller writes: << Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. >> That scene also reminded me of an old Annie Liebovitz photo of someone (nice memory) nude and covered with rose petals. Bette Midler, maybe? (But with my memory, it may have been Bette Bennedict!) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 13:41:33 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? - NJC Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Bob Muller writes: > > << Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which > describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. >> > > That scene also reminded me of an old Annie Liebovitz photo of someone (nice > memory) nude and covered with rose petals. Bette Midler, maybe? (But with my > memory, it may have been Bette Bennedict!) No. You're memory is just fine. It was a full color cover of Bette on Rolling Stone. Jerry np: Sondre Lerche - You Know So Well ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:26:12 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Milk haters - singing NJC Jenny wrote: Speaking as a singer, cheese makes me just as phlegmy as milk does. I am not a singer (well not outside the confines of my home:) But I also gave up milk for similar reasons. If I do dip into the cow juice it's gotta be organic, that rBGH freaks me out. I'm strict about my 16 month old daugter only having organic dairy products, that growth hormone is wacky, I don't want her to have a 38DD when she's 12, EEKKK!! I've read to much about it to not change the way I eat dairy. I don't want to start a debate about it, I just wanted to share my .02 Erica _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:40:43 -0400 From: Patti Witten Subject: Re: Patti Witten and Big Yellow Taxi - sjc Such a shock to see my name in the subject line! > I've just received Patti Witten's CDs ("Land od > souvenirs" and "Prairie Doll") and Big Yellow Taxi's > "Tribute to Joni Mitchell" from CDBaby. Thanks Catherine, I'm glad you like them enough to recommend them :) As for the pixie haircut, it feels great but looks awful (on me). But by the time I was 7 or 8 my mother was letting our hair grow... here's a cute pic of me and my sisters and neighbor kids playing air-band http://pattiwitten.com/photogallery2.html scroll all the way to the end Oh, there's also a Joni impersonation :) on that page farther up, taken by Sue MacNamara this summer @ Ithaca festival... I think I'm going as Joni for Halloween this year, it's such a great wig and blondes have more fun. xo Patti - -- Patti Witten, singer-songwriter http://pattiwitten.com New CD http://sycamoretryst.com Acoustic-Rock with a touch of Twang ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:56:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: Probably the more likely connection is the phrase "American Beauty" which describes the specific rose as well as the Mena Suvari character. However, I do think Joni's phrase merits some further examination...I would imagine that it would be some precarious modeling to be "naked in the roses", what with thorns and such. ;~) imho, American Beauty, the film asks us to look closer...at the notion of beauty, American Beauty, and what that *is* and what that means to the person who is doing the observing. American Beauty may refer to the not so happily ever after life behind the white picket fence to the Amercian Beauty as in the rose, or the American Beauty, as in the image of Mena Suvari, a stereotypical beauty (certainly in her own mind, surrounded by beauty (the rose(s). to me, among other things, this film is about perception and illusion. Challenging/examining the meaning of beauty in general and (the)(an) American Beauty(s) in particular. I like seeing the film through the eyes of Ricky Fitz. Speaks volumes to me. Never underestimate the power of denial. Oh yea. I have no idea if the people behind this film are Joni fans or not...the parallel between this film and the images that Joni has painted lyrically and in our minds opens doors to more ponderings/discussion. I love that about this list. And the discussions they go round and round. Mags np: on xpn, constant craving - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:59:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Milk haters - singing NJC Humans are the only mammals who continue to drink milk as adults. I had a high school biology teacher who believed the the unnecessary consumption of milk and milk products as adults was a cause of cancer because it triggered growth. Jerry (Got Milk?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:04:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC now American Beauty <> Very true, Mags...I was fortunate enough to see it a second time in a coffeehouse with a film discussion group. A fascinating discussion about what is one of the finest American films of the past decade. With one of the best one-liners ever..."You are SO busted!" I think I could see this film an unlimited number of times and pick up on something different each time. Bob NP: Lionel Hampton, "Be-Bop" PS: Speaking of musicians that passed this year, I read this weekend about Derek Bell, the harpist for The Chieftains who died last week. The Chieftains of course recorded with Joni and many of her contemporaries, and they have done so much to promote the belnding of musics from all over the world. I hope they will continue, I'm sure they will. If you ever get the chance to see their performance, it is unforgettable. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:34:25 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Milk haters & football, Paz NJC The doctor made me give up milk in 2000 and I have never felt better. I miss the occasional pizza (a lot, I am an Italian who grew up in Chicago) but by now my body has decided to get violently ill when it gets close to milk, so I don't miss the pizza enough to eat any. I also have discovered amazing things to do with no-fat soy milk. And I lost a bunch of weight when I gave up evil milk. And on the NJC thread, congrats to Paz and his Saints yesterday. Never thought they could rally like that to beat SF. I could almost hear the yelling up here, Paz. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:27:52 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC now American Beauty Muller writes: << one of the finest American films of the past decade. (SNIP) I think I could see this film an unlimited number of times and pick up on something different each time. >> Hey, Muller! I A G R E E W I T H Y O U ! I loved this movie so much, I actually dragged a couple of friends to it within a week of seeing it myself (with other friends who HATED it) for the first time. Perhaps the most honest portrait of American life since "Nashville" in, what, 1976 or so. And Annette Benning! I loved her performance. She was robbed at the Academy Awards! I watch very little TV besides Letterman, but Ricky Fitz's reclusive mother was brilliantly played by that actress who's on "West Wing." You know, what's her name . . . --Bob, agreeing with Muller for a change. Wonder what the temperature in Hell is right now . . . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:46:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC now American Beauty <> Guess Bette Midler - it worked for you last time! Thanks for agreeing with me, although I must say now that it has me doubting my own opinion. :~) Bob NP: Gladys Knight, "Choice Of Colors" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:34:03 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Christina Hits The Local TV airwaves (NJC) Hello Gang Well Christina continues her whirlwind tour of Louisiana by hitting the airwaves on this evenings 6 O' Clock News. They were reporting about Saints Fever (sorry Julius!!!!!) and they showed her singing "When The Saints Go Marching In" riding on the streetcar. WoW! How does she do it?? I am home sick in bed and the kids came and woke me up to tell me that she had just called to tell us the news. We taped it so maybe we can get it up on the internet at some point. She is on her way to meet up with Jack in the Quarter and they are gonna play a coffeehouse tonight. I am gonna stay home and nurse this cold, so we can get back to work soon. Hope all are well. Best Paz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:56:12 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Foreshadowing? I don't know if this is insight but, I'll take a stab at this 'foreshadowing' from the point of view of Joni as a artist - lyricist and painter. Many artists are never quite finished with an idea. Joni, as an artist/painter, must have been aware of the history of women artists/painters. Let me draw on an analogy - that of Berthe Morisot, a 19th century painter from France. Morisot was a prolific painter but was more often the subject in paintings executed by the more popular male painters. While she exhibited at the Salons, her work was more often not in a prime viewing space BUT works by Manet in which Morisot was the subject were! Morisot struggled with this and as a result only created one (maybe two - I'll have to go look) self portraits. Morisot was accepted by Impressionists such as Manet,Pissarro, Renoir, but was never fully recognized for her talent, imo, until the mid to late 20th century. That's a real short, skinny on Morisot. When I listen to Joni's 'The Gallery' I think of someone like Morisot. I'd like to think that Joni may have read about her. I also think that Joni is trying to show how she 'broke out of the mold' of being a subject in a male artist environment (remember that FTR was released in 1972 during an ever emerging feminist movement) and took control when she created FTR. She exhibited herself not only in the photograph but through her lyrics. She boldly exposes herself as an artist - here I am - take it or leave it. Joni started with an idea in 1969 and evolved it into a personal statement 1972. Just my take. Excellent start for a thread Hell! Best- Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Ricw1217@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 11:03 AM To: "hell" Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Foreshadowing? hi hell! (and you are welcome! its an interesting way to listen to joni, isn't it? having the old stuff juxtaposed with the more recent? "joni - out of order!") anyway, i think this is a very interesting question you raise and i hope someone with some insight can expound on it. i have often wondered myself (assuming the gallery is autobiographical, and it sounds as if it is) if those lyrics mean there is a nude of joni out there somewhere! but i never made the very interesting connection between those lines and the nude shot on for the roses. i think that is kind of fascinating... and did i dream this, or has anyone else heard that the subject of the gallery was supposed to be leonard cohen. i thot i read that somewhere... ric ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #437 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)