From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #432 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 432 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: October 17 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: Bali, NJC ["kakki" ] my feelings [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: Nonesuch question NJC [] teach your children (and hello Walt!) NJC [ReckersL@ebrd.com] vocal ranges njm ["William Chavez" ] second part of a trilogy ["William Chavez" ] Joni on the music biz ["Marianne Rizzo" ] NJC Saying Hi [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Morning becomes Elektra [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Teach Your Children, NJC (and let your children teach you!) ["Blair F] Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC [] Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: vocal ranges njm [Jenny Goodspeed ] Joni's artwork [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni's artwork [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Vocal ranges (now, NJC) [] travelogue album cover [SMC1254@aol.com] Framing [James Leahy ] (njc) We're number 5! We're number 5! [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) ["Brenda" ] Re: Framing [colin ] Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Framing [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: nonesuch [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["Erica Trudelle" ] I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, Man!!! [Susan McNamara ] Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter [Catherine McKay ] Re: Framing [Catherine McKay ] Vocal ranges/feedback (NJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:03:59 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 17 2001: Joni paid a surprise visit, accompanied by her daughter, Kilauren Gibb, to Hugh's Room, a Toronto folk club, and sang a duet with her old pal, Eric Andersen. The tune was Andersen's classic 'Blue River', which she recorded with him almost 30 years ago. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011020tgam.cfm - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:32:39 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Bali, NJC Laurent wrote: > The sad truth is that human life doesn't have the same value depending on > location. Simple arithmetics: in order to get media attention 5 American lives = > 500,000 Tibetans = 50,000 Kurds = 1 Palestinian = 100,000 Tutsis. > These numbers are just an example but you get the idea. After thinking about it last night I basically came to the same sorry conclusion. They didn't get the attention and payoff they craved until they hit the big cheese, so to speak. > Who's to blame: Short attention spans? Journalists? Violent movies? All of > the above? That's a good list for starters. Most people in the world are self-absorbed until it comes to their neighborhood. But even knowing it is happening in some place other than your own country and being concerned - what can be done? Intervening is seen by many as just as wrong as looking the other way. Damned either way to some extent. At least now the whole world is more aware and focused on the problem. At least intelligence is being given more of a priority and being shared and some countries are working together to thwart new plots and arrest the plotters. A little late, but it's a start. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:21:40 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: my feelings I think that Joni caouldnt have been more right in her Rolling Stone interview and I thought she looked fierce in the photo.. Whatta beauty!!ANd her remarks were warranted due to the fact that shes been screwed by the business for so long she can finally speak truthfully(albiet not for the first time) on her feelings about the music industry..I mean you only have to look as far as the cover of the "Women in Rock" Rolling Stone to realize how messed up music is today....Last time i checked Britney or Ashanti arent rock (i mean Mary J isnt either but shes a major talent) ok so then call it women in music I still dont think that most of the ladies and girlz featured deserved it...Can you get over Grace Slick is her head shaved she bettre work she looks great!!A lil puffy but great...So viva la Joni for her speaking her mind and for lookin so fine.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:47:53 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Nonesuch question NJC > What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? > Dawn Upshaw, Audra McDonald, Mandy Patinkin, Judy Blazer and Michael Feinstein recorded some of his songbooks in that label. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:44:14 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: teach your children (and hello Walt!) NJC Before I write about the subject in the heading, a quick message for Big Walt: thank you for that beautiful post, the letter to your 2 Spanish friends. Sorry, I can't say much more, just that I really know I like you and feel very close to you. The balancing of the glass that is about to overflow, the sheer willpower that keeps you going, the humanity throughout it all... yes, that's life at its worst and best as I know it too, my friend! Big big hug for you. Now, Laurent, about getting your kids onto good music, I'm just going through this with my sons aged 15 and 17. First of all, Bob Muller has already covered most of what I wanted to say. Patience, mutual respect, etc will do wonders. Really, I remember trying to make my sons hear things that they simply were not ready for at a certain age. For example: instead of learning to like Steely Dan, my son Thomas got an aversion to them, he found them really depressing (when he heard me play them when he was in bed, it made him nervous and unable to sleep!) But last week I got him to listen again, because he's into electric guitar, and he enjoyed it, calling them slick and jazzy. I think it's like certain tastes (strong cheeses, bitter flavours etc) that a child just can't like and has to grow a more mature palate for. I used to hate jazz, now I love it. So all you can do is try to give your kids things they CAN like at this age. (Like food with soft flavours that's still healthy.) In the case of my boys, it worked with the Beatles and the Monkees and Harry Nilsson. They wanted the Best of Nilsson tape on in the car whenever we went anywhere. Favourites were Me and My Arrow and Spaceman, but also Without You (which in fact made Thomas very sad, the first time he heard it) and I was very proud, when some time later Maria Carey came out with that song, my boys hated it - the way she warbled and dragged out the notes (someone, maybe Walt? or Bobmurph? wrote some very funny posts about it some time ago, had a very apt term for it, like verbal diarrhoea) - so that gave me hope for the future! When they did start listening to music on their own, it was first to some popsy nonsense such as the Spice Girls but that did not last more than a blink of the eyes (or flap of the ears) and then they went into nu-metal etc. Now Thomas is into guitar bands such as Guns & Roses and Maze but he also listens to Blondie and is ready to start sampling my collection. He's getting into Jeff Buckley and Van Morrisson (and when in the right mood will stay in the room when I have Joni on) and is reading up on the evolution of ska and reggie etc. I can just imagine that in another year or so (a lifetime in the way they change at that age!) he may be right into Cat Stevens or Paul Simon, and a few years later into Frank Sinatra or Miles Davies, who knows. I've learnt not to push, because it simply doesn't work. But of course, not everybody ends up liking music the way we do. I have friends who still haven't got a clue, who won't get beyond "mood collections" with Celine Dion etc. As Thomas was trying to explain to me last week: kids of his age have outgrown simple popsy stuff such as Britney and Kylie, so those "who can't really hear music" go for the commercial R&B. Then, according to the Thomas theory, there are the grungers and the people who are into metal or rap. They all dress accordingly (he is a grunger himself). Well I'm glad he tells me, and that he knows that I can follow what he tells me! I could tell you more or less the same story about my younger son Laurence. He's taking electric bass lessons and each week the teacher makes him learn the bassline of some song, normally from the 70s (Billy Joel, Eric Clapton, etc.) and again, it is opening his ears at exactly the right time for him, without anybody pushing. My last bit of advice: music education! Get a piano in the house, get your kids some music lessons, at least if they are in the least interested. I find it is all paying off now. Now I'll have to find ways of getting them more interested in painting and architecture! Not so easy, as it's not part of our all-invasive popular culture. But I have some cunning plans up my sleeve! :-) Lieve. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:42:50 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: vocal ranges njm Kate Bush can sing a span of seven octaves????????????????? Is that physiologically possible? Does this imply that classical singer have a wider range than seven? Will _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:00:17 -0400 From: "William Chavez" Subject: second part of a trilogy Joni did at one point state that BSN was the first part to a trilogy. I think we should expect painting and music from her present album to tie in with her previous album and the next one yet to come. Will _________________________________________________________________ Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:14:51 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: Joni on the music biz Joni, Say/play what you want. _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:59:27 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Saying Hi <> Hi Paul, and welcome to you! Maybe if you have time you can fill us in on why you're drawn to Joni. <> Well, stay tuned & pay attention, and you'll see that this tired cliche just ain't so. Thanks for the intro and hope to hear more from you. Bob NP: Kim Richey, "Reel Me In" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:41:28 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Morning becomes Elektra Hi JMDlers Re the nonesuch doo dah, didn't albums used to come out on a combined Elektra/Nonesuch label...like Carly's . Isn't fate wonderful Gordon in Glasgow PS Who will meet up with fellow JMDLer Laurent from Paris in 3 hours time. Alas, he is coming to Scotland and not me going to Paris! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:49:29 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Teach Your Children, NJC (and let your children teach you!) I find it funny when I see my little niece, aged 5 now, sing along to every word to a Creed song. My older sister basically plays what she likes and it rubs off on her daughter. I do think it is cute that Bethany, sings along to Dixie Chicks and anything besides Creed, but i figured when she reaches a certain age, she'll either make a big change and start listening to something completely different just to obfuscate or scare her mother, or she might still like the Dixie Chicks. Nontheless, I feel that it is always good to expose your children to different types of music. Now, expecting them to like it as well or have the same passion as you do, shouldn't be the case. I think just having them exposed to it, and realizing it exists is almost like a history lesson in some ways.. And also, some people arent as passionate about music period. It just blows in and out of their life with no real purpose. I remember meeting some girl who said, "I don't listen to music!!" and i looked at her like she needed and exorcism and quick. Again, exposure is the main point. The child will take that or leave it, but atleast he or she would have experienced it a few times. Blair NP: Paper Tiger, Beck >It has to work both ways...I let my son expose me to what he enjoys (a lot >of it is not good imo, but some is great), and then he's open to what I >want to have HIM hear. Kids aged 9 & 11 (as a general rule) will not have >the sophistication to appreciate the Ry Cooders, Joni Mitchells, and Rickie >Lee Jones of the world. They want something with a good beat OR something >that their friends like. Peer pressure in terms of music can be tremendous >for teens & pre-teens. > >Anyway, you can't force it...it didn't work for our parents and won't work >for our kids. But with time & mutual respect you'll find them picking up on >things that will surprise you. And once you get the common ground it only >gets easier! > >Bob > >NP: New Colony Six, "At The River's Edge" > > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:17:43 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC > Tim, your question immediately made me think of a singer named Yma > Sumac, who was touted as a Polynesian with a 7-octave range or some > such. It seems she was just a singer from New Jersey named Amy Camus > which is Yma Sumac spelled backwards! But isn't Yma Sumac, Peruvian or Argentinean? I remembered one radio announcer said that her voice comes oh so rarely and she's from either Peru or Argentina. In history we were taught that a soprano called Jenny Lind has an unrivalled octave but she was used a freak-show attraction in one famous traveling circus. What about Minnie Riperton? Or Cleo Laine? Joseph in Manila (don't like high-pitched voices much) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:32:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC <> Well Joseph, it appears to be the stuff of legends...I said Polynesian, which was way wrong. I was just talking off the top of my head. The All-Music guide has a pretty long blurb about her, which begins as follows: "A singer with an amazing four-octave range, Yma Sumac was said to have been a descendant of Inca kings, an Incan princess that was one of the Golden Virgins. Her offbeat stylings became a phenomenon of early '50s pop music. While her album covers took advantage of her strange costumes and voluptuous figure, rumors abounded that she was, in actuality, a housewife named Amy Camus. It mattered little, since there has been no one like her before or since in the annals of popular music. " I'm sure there is more info about her on www - heck, maybe even an Yma Sumac Discussion List! :~) I remember seeing her on Letterman a number of years ago...she started singing very low, and as the song progressed she continued to climb up over several octaves, so at least THAT part is true! Bob NP: Junior Kimbrough, "Meet Me In The City" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:44:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: vocal ranges njm I did a little research and Kate Bush does not have a seven octave range - more like 4 octaves, or maybe a little more than 4 octaves, which is still huge. As far as I know a span of 7 octaves is not possible. That would be almost the range of a piano. Jenny William Chavez wrote:Kate Bush can sing a span of seven octaves????????????????? Is that physiologically possible? Does this imply that classical singer have a wider range than seven? Will _________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free! Try MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:45:54 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Joni's artwork There's an update on Jonimitchell.com regarding Travelogue. Hi Jim! The pic of the artwork is much sharper than on the Nonesuch site. Perhaps it's the indigo backdrop. Love the self portrait. Happy to see that she placed less prominence on the jowls LOL! She must have found a more recent photo of herself that she liked. ~rose in nj NP: My Hometown ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:59:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni's artwork And is it just me, or do her eyes in this painting have a feline quality about them? Reminds me of that wacky lady that had a series of cosmetic surgeries to make her face like that of her cats. Creepy. As for Joni's painting, I like it just fine - interesting shadows & light...like Hell, I'm much more interested in what's in the grooves as opposed to what's on the front. Bob NP: Paul Jones, "My Baby Got Drunk" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:12:22 -0500 From: Subject: RE: Vocal ranges (now, NJC) Tim Spong wrote: "Who can add to this list? Feel free to add for men, also. Let's generally stay with singer-songwriters; I'm not sure including, say, opera singers would be useful. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A." I remember reading somewhere--this list, perhaps?--that the late Minnie Ripperton had a five-octave range. Can't vouch for the veracity of this report, however. Anybody out there know, or remember that thread? Mary P., Who is also finding it hard to believe that humans could either *produce* or *hear* seven octaves of sound. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:57:49 EDT From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: travelogue album cover Well, I actually like it a lot. I think it is moody and beautiful. I think Joni has a pretty good idea of what she is doing here and I don't think she really cares at all what anyone thinks or what she sells. I have a feeling the music will be amazing, if not astonishing. let us not second guess until Nov. 19. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:39:17 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Framing Just saw Joni's art for Travelogue. I agree that the self-portrait within a frame is now a tired device. Framing worked brilliantly on TI, where it brilliantly put her 'take' on Van Gogh into context. This was a portrait of herself AS Van Gogh, part humorous, part serious. The frame was needed to make that distinction clear. On TTT, on the other hand, the framing of a rather mediocre painting was not appropriate. It created an imbalance between the rectangular painting and the square CD case. As far as I can tell, the same fault applies to Travelogue (alas, the title does not lend itself to an acronym, so I guess we'll actually have to spell it out in full whenever we mention it). For the new album, judging by the title alone and by the wide range of songs that span her whole career, I envisaged a photo montage -- snapshots from her life illustrating the different moments captured in the songs ('picture postcard charms'). This new portrait, which is lovely as a portrait, doesn't give any hint of such a retrospective series of images. I'm still trying to make out some sort of overall theme from the song list given on the Nonesuch site. It still baffles me. Perhaps the pieces will all fall in place when I get the album. BTW: The new CD is listed on the Canadian version ot Amazon.com as a 'Special Import' selling for $44.95, Nov. 19 release. I guess it's not being released here generally until a later date, like what happened for BSN. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:45:18 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) We're number 5! We're number 5! Hey, Bob, Just heard on the news that Greenville-Spartanburg is the "5th most sprawling urban area" in the US! Yay? (On my maps they look like **2** urban areas, but maybe they've joined hands?) Happy Sprawling, Big (I prefer to think of it as stretching) Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:46:57 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) On 17 Oct 2002 at 13:41, Gordon Mackie wrote: > Hi JMDlers > > Re the nonesuch doo dah, didn't albums used to come out on a combined > Elektra/Nonesuch label...like Carly's . > It's the same label. Nonesuch was started by Elektra founder Jac Holzman. Elektra is a part of the Warner Music Group. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:55:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Framing > I'm still trying to make out some sort of overall theme from the song > list given on the Nonesuch site. It still baffles me. Is the theme not in the title? A journey thru her works? At least that is what i think about why she named it Travelogue. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:00:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Morning becomes Elektra (njc) Brenda wrote: > On 17 Oct 2002 at 13:41, Gordon Mackie wrote: > > > Hi JMDlers > > > > Re the nonesuch doo dah, didn't albums used to come out on a combined > > Elektra/Nonesuch label...like Carly's . > > > > It's the same label. Nonesuch was started by Elektra founder Jac Holzman. Elektra > is a part of the Warner Music Group. And I just saw it listed as a Reprise release. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:03:04 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: The Jungle Institution Hey, gang, I know (assume) when Joni wrote "Jungle Line", her reference to Rousseau was obviously to Henri Julien Felix "Le Douanier" Rousseau, painter (after he quit his customs job) of exotic imaginary landscapes, including jungles, [deep breath] **but** is there any chance she might also have been referring also to the "other" Rousseau, Jean Jacques (1712-78), writer of "Du Contract Social", among other things. According to the Cambridge Biographical Encyclopedia, his writing emphasized the natural goodness of human beings and the "corrupting influences of institutional life." Hmmm. Has this already been discussed? (I know, I know, I have too much free time, and I think too much...) Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:15:41 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: (njc) We're number 5! We're number 5! <<(On my maps they look like **2** urban areas, but maybe they've joined hands?)>> They have in a way...a number of years ago BMW built their first American plant in Greer, SC which is situated in between Greenville & Spartanburg SC (so they could draw from both areas for labor, plus they got a steal on the land and tons of tax breaks). They manufacture the Z3 Roadster (now out of production, replaced by the Z4) and BMW's SUV as well. The location of the plant caused a lot of satellite companies that supply parts to locate there also, and now suburbs are popping up all over, blurring the border between Greenville/Spartanburg. Very similar to what Research Triangle Park has done to join Raleigh/Durham, NC. Also, I read this week that Greenville has more cell phones per capita than ANYWHERE in the country! Bob NP: Antonio Carlos Jobim & Sting, "How Insensitive" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:19:33 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: nonesuch On 17 Oct 2002 at 16:21, hell wrote: > > Just a thought.... Does anyone know if this is the absolute final > version of the cover art for this CD? Remember the art-work for BSN > was completed very "last minute" and I wonder if maybe she's given > them a mock-up of the cover, with the final version to come? This > "thumb-nail" might be exactly that - just part of the whole painting. > It's unlikely that it will change at this point, unless it is changing as we write. If the release date is 11/19, then the CD's have to be pressed and ready to ship on 11/5, which is just over two weeks away. And since this is the gear up time for the holiday season, the manufacturing plants will be working at capacity to ship the big Christmas releases and it would be hard for them to hold Joni's release date. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:24:06 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Framing <> I agree, and it certainly has a better ring than "I don't like DED or CMIAR either!" ;~) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:26:13 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: nonesuch Hey all I just thought I'd sign back on to the jmdl after nearly 8 months of not having net access. I can't wait for the new album!!! I'm too excited!! Much Joni Jamie Zoob Brenda wrote:On 17 Oct 2002 at 16:21, hell wrote: > > Just a thought.... Does anyone know if this is the absolute final > version of the cover art for this CD? Remember the art-work for BSN > was completed very "last minute" and I wonder if maybe she's given > them a mock-up of the cover, with the final version to come? This > "thumb-nail" might be exactly that - just part of the whole painting. > It's unlikely that it will change at this point, unless it is changing as we write. If the release date is 11/19, then the CD's have to be pressed and ready to ship on 11/5, which is just over two weeks away. And since this is the gear up time for the holiday season, the manufacturing plants will be working at capacity to ship the big Christmas releases and it would be hard for them to hold Joni's release date. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 - --------------------------------- Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Michael wrote: >As a young man in my twenties, I couldn't relate to the symphonic interlude in Paprika Plains, for example. Today, it's my favorite song on the album! It's hard for me to actually pick a favorite piece off of DJRD but I will say that I LOVE the place that Paprika Plains takes me to!!! It's beautiful, I usually set the CD player to play it twice in a row, it's pure genius to me. The whole work as a whole is incredible, the reoccuring dream theme, I happen to love the 10th Wolrd, I know alot of people here don't dig it that much. And I have no clue who Martha is, I'm still trying to figure out who "left her long black hair" in Joni's drain. I love hearing positive feedback about this album. Take care, Erica _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: vocal range NJC I've heard that Diamanda Galas has a seven-octave range as well. I'm pretty sure she's had operatic training, even if she doesn't sing opera. I love Yma Sumac. I've never heard the Amy Camus story, but that doesn't make her music any less cool (maybe MORE cool!). I think she was touted as Andean, not Polynesian. - ------------------------------------- I dunno...I think a couple of those octaves are ones that only dogs can hear, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies her or not. Tim, your question immediately made me think of a singer named Yma Sumac, who was touted as a Polynesian with a 7-octave range or some such. It seems she was just a singer from New Jersey named Amy Camus which is Yma Sumac spelled backwards! Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:55 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, Man!!! What kind of a loser calls herself a Joni Mitchell fan and just finds out TODAY that she is coming out with a new 2-CD set? Called "Travelogue?" Can you help a fellow JMDL who's down on her luck and give me the scoop for Gaad's saake? Here is one vaguely informative email I culled from the archives. Is this true? She is redoing Dawntreader with an orchestra? I can't even fathom the enormity of that in my bum's rush mind. HELP!! suemc At 2:43 AM -0400 9/10/02, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: >Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:38:59 -0500 >From: "J.David Sapp" >Subject: a travelogue > >culling from 2 different sources we have these tracks identified so far: >Woodstock, Amelia, Chinese Cafi, Flat Tire, For the Roses, God Must Be a >Boogie Man, Sex Kills, Be Cool, Just Like This Train, The Last Time I Saw >Richard and Circle Game. >Coyote," "The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song)," "Judgement of the Moon and >Stars (Ludwig's Tune)," " 'Refuge of the Roads,' 'Borderline' and 'Cherokee >Louise.' 'The Dawntreader > >i figure that leaves 5 or 6 tunes not yet mentioned > >peace, david - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:04:53 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: I am on a lonely road and I am not traveling, Man!!! OK, our own Bob put me in the right direction. Thanks, hon. I'm feeling better now. There I was thinking I was a Joni Mitchell fan because I listened to Court and Spark in the morning two days in a row and while I wasn't looking she's gone to London and become a MAESTRO. She was orchestral then, you know, when she copied herself as an oboe section for the bridge of Car on the Hill. untouchable. thanks for saving me today, suemc - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:57:30 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I think Martha may be a character from the Bible. There was a song Taj Mahal did, in which he says, "Mary and Martha standing by the riverside. Mary explaining to Martha, darling, look at the ocean deep and the river wi-i-i-ide - here come old Moses....he had sunshine and good things on his bond." It's called "Your Gonna Need Someone on Your Bond." Joni has quite a few biblical allusions in her lyrics. Being a PK, I tend to pick up on them. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:04:57 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: a new Joni page (for me) I know a little Spanish - I believe this is Portuguese. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:06:08 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter <> Martha definitely IS a character in the Bible, but I'm not sure that it's the subject of the lyric in "Talk To Me". Putting it in context, the next line is: "We could talk about landscapes" Is there a significant Martha in the art world that this might have related to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case it rings a familiar note with anyone. I would be more inclined to believe that she was referencing Martha Graham, the dancer & choreographer since she juxtaposed it with a painting lyric next. Bob NP: The Lovemongers, "Battle Of Evermore" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:25:50 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter In a message dated 10/17/02 5:06:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: > Is there a significant Martha in the art world that this might have related > to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case it rings a familiar note > with anyone. Martha Stewart LOL! you know, It's a good thing.... ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:47:57 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: vocal range NJC In a message dated 17/10/2002 20:33:24 GMT Daylight Time, tahewitt@yahoo.com writes: << I've heard that Diamanda Galas has a seven-octave range as well. I'm pretty sure she's had operatic training, even if she doesn't sing opera.>> I don't know about her range, but she's a singular talent. I have one of her albums, The Singer, which is pretty mainstream - compared to a lot of her stuff: I don't play it, not because it's not good, but because I don't want the neighbours to call the police and tell them someone is being murdered in my flat. << I love Yma Sumac. I've never heard the Amy Camus story, but that doesn't make her music any less cool (maybe MORE cool!). I think she was touted as Andean, not Polynesian. >> She was truly exotic, even if she was called Amy. I had a compilation of hers years ago, and the music sounded like a soundtrack from one of those politically dodgy Tarzan films of the 30s/40s. More recently, she was heard on the truly fabulous "Stay Awake", a collection of newly recorded versions of songs from Disney films, which included Suzanne Vega doing a gorgeous unaccompanied take on the title song, Los Lobos with a rollicking I Wanna Be Like You, Bonnie Raitt with a sweet Baby Mine, Tom Waits with a truly bizarre Heigh Ho, and Ringo Starr with a rendition of When You Wish Upon A Star which would bring a smile to the most jaded soul. Azeem in London NP: Portishead's second album - now this is pretty scary. I missed Beth Gibbons's one-off gig last night, sad to say. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:03:01 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: nonesuch In a message dated 17/10/2002 18:26:37 GMT Daylight Time, jamiezubairi@yahoo.co.uk writes: << I just thought I'd sign back on to the jmdl after nearly 8 months of not having net access. I can't wait for the new album!!! >> Hey, GREAT to see you back on the list Jamie! Hope your thespian exploits have been going well. Azeem in London NP: Portishead - Mourning Air - I swear that the first time Beth hits that high note on the chorus is one of the most thrilling moments in recorded music. It's truly spine-tingling stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:41:22 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Vocal range njc Most of the talk has been of female singers, not surprisingly; however, the man who must surely have the greatest range of any male singer is the wonderful Ivan Rebroff, whose voice ranged from an impossibly deep basso profundo to a frankly implausible falsetto alto, or maybe even mezzo soprano. I remember from previous list postings that others have heard of him - any musicians have any idea how huge this extraordinary man's range was/is?? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:11:30 -0500 From: johnirving Subject: Re:Travelogue. Well, well. Tongues are certainly wagging around here... Jim made a brilliant observation re: the Travelogue cover. Jim, you'd make a great ad man. If you'd been around the table during the discussion of the cover art, there'd be a new cover. That said, I love the painting. Those frames are just gorgeous and Joni's technique is growing by leaps and bounds. The light and form are far more flattering and real than other works. And her brushwork with the smoke indicates the girl has all the chops. To my eyes, what the cover art is saying is, "Hey gang, this disk is coming from Joni Mitchell, the painter. I'm a painter." -It also seems to be a deliberate attempt to link the last few projects together. She has settled into something here. Perhaps it's her 'smoky voice' period... As to the subject of Nonesuch... I hate to be the worry wart, but there's no new deal here. This is the old Warner deal, which contractually demanded 2 recordings. Hence her comment saying she 'may never sign another record deal.' The best we can hope for, at the moment anyway, is that Travelogue will count as one record, not two. Leaving her obligated to once more. Although, if she wanted out... and they wanted out... "sigh." Quoting Brenda... "Tom Whalley, the chairman of Warner/Reprise has been nothing but clear since he arrived last year about rejuvenating those labels as pop labels and increasing market share. He came from Interscope - a big spend, big sales kind of label. Joni's new music doesn't fit that plan." Much of Joni's present distaste for the Industry stems from this little tidbit. I recall one of her interviews she was quite bitter about the 'new guy' coming on board after promises from the 'old guy' who retired just as the ink was drying on her Warner contract. I'm certain she felt betrayed. -I also think the dirth of new material rises out of this. I don't think she wants to give Warner anything more than she has to. In a way it's all fitting when you think of it. From the beginning Joni has been 'in' the industry at the moving hand of others... Crosby sheppared her entry into the biz. Freddie Walecki's ax revived her muse. As did the oft criticized husband... he was a breath of 'the new' that kept Joni sonically interested. My gut feeling is it will take the luck of someone other than Joni to guide her to a contractua situation that would make her feel good about recording again. I hope this happens. We know she has more music in her. And perhaps some, but not a lot of poetry. But she's not the kind to push the necessary buttons herself. Heck, she doesn't even have a computer in the house. As to the Joni interview... I think we're reading too much into this compressed article. I can easily see where she's coming from. In the comic industry that I once worked in, Marvel Comics was a thriving money maker until Billionnaire Aquisition King Ron Pearlman stepped in. The giant was driven into bankruptcy and then tried to recover by pushing out 'old' talent and chasing fads like Anime. My response: I was grateful for every penny I earned in the industry. But if you asked me, I would tell you I wished the whole stack of cards would burn to a cinder. Not the form I love, but that the mindset of those who have the power would be proven horribly, horribly wrong. -That's what I feel she's wishing for. - --What I want to know is when that hunk Steve Polifka is going to hang out with me to chat Joni and break bread? Hiyas CoyoteRick. j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:09:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter --- Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > "We could talk about landscapes" > > Is there a significant Martha in the art world that > this might have related > to? I don't know, I'm just throwing it out in case > it rings a familiar note > with anyone. I would be more inclined to believe > that she was referencing > Martha Graham, the dancer & choreographer since she > juxtaposed it with a > painting lyric next. I thought of Martha Graham too. Ruth, what is a PK? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Framing --- James Leahy wrote: > > BTW: The new CD is listed on the Canadian version ot > Amazon.com as a > 'Special Import' selling for $44.95, Nov. 19 > release. I guess it's not > being released here generally until a later date, > like what happened for BSN. How typical of the way things happen here in Canada. Is it us being slow, or is it those damn Yanks making us wait? Anyway, I've preordered mine from amazon.com not amazon.ca, thank you very much, since it was nowhere to be found when I checked the Canadian site, much less was it on hmv's site. And they want us to buy Canadian - yeah, right, make it available and I'll buy it; otherwise my money goes to whoever has what I'm looking for. P.S. I like the painting. Would like to get a better look at it though in a larger size. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:29:25 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Vocal ranges/feedback (NJC) To Mary P., Bob Muller, Jenny Goodspeed and all jmdlers who get the whole list: Thanks to those named for writing me directly. Those whose responses were NJC I wouldn't see in any case, for I get the only-Joni digest --- and I didn't see my post or the "SJC" responses on the Thursday digest. Maybe they'll be on Friday's. One or more said that six octaves of vocal range had been claimed for Mariah Carey, but that was hype or a hoax. Having read that, I think I remember previously reading a claim of five octaves for M.C. Is the latter, perhaps, legit? Mary P. doubts that humans can hear seven octaves of differing pitches. Well, yes, they can --- those with normal hearing. A common piano has a compass of 7 and 1/4 octaves. With the bass notes, one might hear more overtones than fundamental, but the latter is there. With my several electronic keyboards, I can play a total of eight octaves of almost pure sine waves, all of them audible, or nine octaves of sampled piano sound pushed beyond the span of a wood-and-metal piano. And doing the math: Those with the full span of "normal" human hearing can hear from 20 to 20,000 Hertz, or oscillations per second, altho' the upper portions are commonly lost with advancing age. A above middle C is 440 Hz in standard concert pitch. So, the A four octaves below is an audible 27.5 Hz, and the one below that is 13.75 Hz, below audibility as a tone, but maybe audible as discrete pulses. A five octaves above is 14,080 Hz, audible to some of us, and the next one is 28,160 Hz -- dog-whistle territory, perhaps, or bat-sonar territory. Ergo, 20 to 20,000 Hz is something like nine and a half octaves. Note: Here are the reported upper limits of various kind of sound reproduction: Good quality phonograph records, open-reel tape and CDs: 20,000 Hz Best available cassette tapes: 15,000 Hz. FM radio broadcasts: 13,000 Hz AM radio broadcasts: 8,000 Hz. The first CDs digitally sampled at, I think, 44.1 kHz (44,100 Hz), meaning that there would be slightly more than two samples of each oscillation of a 20 kHz tone --- that's why upper frequencies are distorted. Cassette tape only has one-eighth the room of a 1/4-inch tape running at 7-1/2 inches per second. FM and AM broadcasts are limited to the listed bandwidth so that the signal doesn't splatter into the adjacent channel; if the channels were spaced farther apart, the full audio spectrum is capable of being broadcast by the existing technology. But I digress! Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #432 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)