From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #431 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 17 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 431 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- noiseNJC [colin ] Re: Teach Your Children, NJC [vince ] Vocal ranges (SJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ["michael o'malley" ] HELLO, NEW ORLEANS ! ! ! MAMA ETHEL IS HERE ! ! ! -- njc [Murphycopy@a] RE: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper (njc) ["Heather" ] Re: nonesuch ["kakki" ] Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: New Orleans, here I come! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Getting Out More" NJC ["kakki" ] Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: New Radicals - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: nonesuch [FMYFL@aol.com] New Tori NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: nonesuch ["kakki" ] Re: nonesuch ["hell" ] re:hold the phone ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: nonesuch ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC ["gene mock" ] This week in the media... [BRYAN8847@aol.com] RE: nonesuch [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] Re: Painting ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:10:31 +0100 From: colin Subject: noiseNJC paul mccloud wrote: > > saw a thing about joni saying most music is bad > ,, it really isnt music anymore its noise my parents used to say that....... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:13:14 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: Teach Your Children, NJC : > On 16 Oct 2002 at 17:09, Sybil Skelton wrote: > Fortunately, she is over that now, and > > is moving on to rap metal . > Brenda wrote > > Linkin Park's Reanimation is pretty good and far more interesting than their debut, > Hybrid Theory. > I will chime in with a big "me too" on Reanimation, which I love more each time I play it. There is a richness to it, I hear more and more every time I play it. (I do like Hybrid Theory quite a but more than Brenda does though...) Bob the Captain of Covers, the Connoisseur of Contributions, stated it well earlier, as did Sybil: listen to their music, and I might add, enjoy their music for there is much that is fun and good. If they are growing up hearing your music, that become a part of them, and when you listen to their music, you are communicating and breaching that parent/child gulf. Let them share it excitedly with you, be excited when they are - we who love music can relate to their excitement and it connects, the bonding over music is good for any parent/child relationship. And then trust them to grow up. Trust them. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 00:50:02 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Vocal ranges (SJC) In the article about Joni in the new "Rolilng Stone," as read from the link in Wednesday's digest (I haven't bought a paper copy yet,) Joni credits her old self with a three-octave vocal range. Here is a short list of vocal ranges claimed by, or for, several other women that I've read of recently: Three octaves Les Sampou (who just performed at the Delmarva Folk Festival) Bet Williams A local/regional type who performed at one of a series of noontime concerts last May in Denton, Md. (I didn't go). Four octaves Julia Fordham Seven octaves (!) Kate Bush Who can add to this list? Feel free to add for men, also. Let's generally stay with singer-songwriters; I'm not sure including, say, opera singers would be useful. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:29:46 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Well well well I have to say, that I hadn't heard this album for about twenty years, having once loaned out my vinyl copy - never to be seen again. I was recently offered a CD version as a gift, nearly completing my Joni inventory. I'm thrilled, I really am. The music sounds so good, and the two records fit onto one CD!. I remember thinking it was a weird and uneven album - an interesting but flawed jewel. As a young man in my twenties, I couldn't relate to the symphonic interlude in Paprika Plains, for example. Today, it's my favorite song on the album! That's interesting - What changed in the interim? I enjoy all the cuts now. I feel like I've opened up to this music, more attuned to it than ever before. It's a gas. The album is also edgy - not at all an *easy listening* experience. By the way, who's Martha? Michaelo in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:31:28 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: HELLO, NEW ORLEANS ! ! ! MAMA ETHEL IS HERE ! ! ! -- njc Well, I have finally made it! I am here at the "Y" in New Orleans waiting for my two sugars -- Michael Paz and Jack Nielson -- to show! (They said they'd be over three hours ago.) It's such a long story, JMDLers, and so few of you know about it, I hardly know where to begin . . . It all started at this year's spectacular Jonifest, when sweet Susan Guzzi helped me accept and love my inner Ethel. Then dear Kay Ashley helped me to "get real," as Dr. Phil says, and find the courage to perform as La Merm. Well, Michael and Jack *loved* my performance as Ethel, and those two sweethearts have been positively *begging* me to move down here to find fame and fortune performing as Ethel Murfman. Since no one has been begging me to do much of anything lately, except pay my Visa and Mastercard bills, I took them up on their offer. Now my future looks so bright, I have to wear $7,000 Versace rhinestone sunglasses -- even at night! The past few weeks have been a fabulous whirlwind of shopping for dresses and wigs and make-up. Now -- at last -- I am ready for my close-up, boys! I am sitting here in a stunning Dior number with cobalt sequins and one of those flouncy blue skirts Ethel loved so dearly. (For a full-figured gal, I look dazzling, if I say so myself!) The rest is history in the making -- starring moi! Really, JMDLers, I know I've got nothing to hit but the heights! There's even a sweet French-speaking man in the next room who keeps stopping by to tell me I look like Merde, whoever she is! (Must be some gorgeous local heartbreaker!) Well, I should go adjust my make-up and my chonies before the boys get here . . . But I want you all to know, each and every one of you 800 beautiful souls, even you lonely lurkers, that I shall never forget you, no matter how wealthy and famous I get. Now where in the city can those boys be . . . MWAH!!! XO, --Ethel Murfman, formerly known as "the other BM!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:07:21 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper (njc) well, if ms joni thinks the music biz is going down the crapper, maybe she'll be composing her next songs from the throne ;-) heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: New Orleans, here I come! NJC Wow Christina! Congratulations on following your bliss! You set a great example for us all. Knock 'em dead!! I know Jack and Paz will take good care of you. Right guys?! Jenny Christoffer Gudi Sommer-Gleerup wrote:Hi everybody! So I think it's about time that I tell you about the latest HUGE thing that's happened in my life! Which I didn't realize till last night really... I've actually hooked up with THE Michael Paz and THE Jack Neilson in New Orleans where I'll be working with them and others musicians to eventually do a demo to present to a record company. And of course I'm planning on having the time of my life here! I promise you, these guys are just crazy (many of you probably already know that)! Last night they picked me up in Jack's limo (didn't do that since graduating from high school), we went to "House of Blues" where a local band was playing (people were out kicking and dancing on the floor) and we went to this "opium room" with Buddah himself watching us! We met up with a musician called Beth Patterson and her manager to talk about a gig we might do this friday warming up for "The Dudes". Jack says, they're awesome, don't know them myself. I guess, there's also a slight chance of me performing at Michael Jordan's private party! I'm in a state of inreality right now...or maybe this is just Paz' life? I'm amazed at how many connections he has. With a snap of his fingers he got me this super cool room in the most incredible house for a ridiculously cheap rent. Anyway, this experience forces me to abstract from the Danish unwritten law called the "Jantelov" which tells you that you shouldn't think you're anything special. Michael and Jack do make me feel pretty spay-shul... Christina, feeling even more grateful for having gone to the Jonifest... Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:37:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) Seven octaves (!) Kate Bush I'm having trouble understanding how this is humanly possible. Can anyone confirm? Mariah Carey's press info says 6 octaves, but that turned out to be a big ol' lie. Dar Williams, 3 octaves according to her press materials Jenny Timothy Spong wrote:In the article about Joni in the new "Rolilng Stone," as read from the link in Wednesday's digest (I haven't bought a paper copy yet,) Joni credits her old self with a three-octave vocal range. Here is a short list of vocal ranges claimed by, or for, several other women that I've read of recently: Three octaves Les Sampou (who just performed at the Delmarva Folk Festival) Bet Williams A local/regional type who performed at one of a series of noontime concerts last May in Denton, Md. (I didn't go). Four octaves Julia Fordham Seven octaves (!) Kate Bush Who can add to this list? Feel free to add for men, also. Let's generally stay with singer-songwriters; I'm not sure including, say, opera singers would be useful. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:30:52 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: nonesuch I know - why should I even post this because it's a me, too and a lot expect me to say it anyway, lol, but I love the cover painting, too!! From the little thumbnail image I see, I think it's a GREAT painting and look forward to picking up the litho(s). Thanks Mark for sharing the excitement ;-) Kakki > As far as the cover goes, I like what I can see of it. It's really hard to > tell what the entire package is going to be like until we get it in our hot > little hands, now isn't it? > But from what I can see, this portrait looks to me like she's looking out of > a window - maybe the window of a ferry or a car or a pontoon plane or a taxi > or a train. I love the fact that half or the face is in shadow. I suppose > if that is cigarette smoke we can rule out the pontoon plane, though. ;-) > It also makes me think of Edward Hopper as others of Joni's paintings have. > At any rate, there seems to be a marvelous rendering of depth and dimension > that some have complained about there being a lack of in Joni's painting. > She looks like she could open her mouth and speak to you at any moment. The > shadow also gives the portrait a mysterious quality. And maybe this is a > portrayal of her duality, shadows and light, both sides now, yin and yang > what with the face being partially in shadow and partially in the light, eh? > Or maybe it's emerging from the shadow? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:59:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC **Mariah Carey's press info says 6 octaves, but that turned out to be a big ol' lie.** I dunno...I think a couple of those octaves are ones that only dogs can hear, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies her or not. Tim, your question immediately made me think of a singer named Yma Sumac, who was touted as a Polynesian with a 7-octave range or some such. It seems she was just a singer from New Jersey named Amy Camus which is Yma Sumac spelled backwards! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:02:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Orleans, here I come! NJC **and we went to this "opium room" with Buddah himself watching us! ** Why am I not surprised that Michael immediately whisked you into his famed "Opium Den" ? ;~) > ** Michael and Jack do make me feel pretty spay-shul...** Well, good for them, because you are VERY spay-shul. I see you're getting the accent as well! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:39:20 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "Getting Out More" NJC Hi Bryan, I was one who said this but only meant it in the very best of ways! (moi ever say something critical about Joni?! ;-) I just think she should be out and about more with really good people and shining her light more - maybe in ways as some have suggested - such as going into schools and inspiring children or maybe being with friends who are supportive and dynamic and forward-thinking, or maybe just hanging out in L.A. with some great musicans and sitting in with them occasionally. I fear sometimes she may become a bit of an isolated "icon." Life is short and for living - no need to let legendary status coop you in too much. It's just a personal wish for her. Of course, she has her own life to live and has had many other things happening in her life the past few years - finding her daughter, having grandchildren, having and then losing a long-distance boyfriend. Challenging real life situations but I hope that she might have a spell of things leveling off for her now and I'd just like to see her living more in the "now" if you know what I mean. Kakki > > Does Joni need to get out more? > > What does that expression mean anyway? Crazy? Not well socialized? Naive? "In her own little world"? I'm not necessarily doubting the idea that JM may need to get out more, I really don't know. I just don't really know what it means. Maybe that indicates I need to get out more. > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:03:22 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Vocal ranges (SJC) NJC Regarding Mariah Carey's alleged 6-octive range, Muller writes: << I think a couple of those octaves are ones that only dogs can hear, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies her or not. >> And I'm not so sure the dogs *want* to hear her, either! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:03:50 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Radicals - njc **Carly Hennessey (of the famed WSJ story on hype)** Gregg also writes a couple of songs on this cd "Ultimate High", but ultimately it's not near as good as that awesome New Radicals disc. Glad to see that somebody else out there digs it too. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:06:30 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: nonesuch In a message dated 10/16/02 10:54:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: > I think it's a GREAT painting and look forward > to picking up the litho(s). Thanks Mark for sharing the excitement ;-) > Kakki and Mark, I also think it's a GREAT painting, it does show a different light and mood of Joni, BUT I think we are all biased when it comes to Joni. I can't think of a decent analogy, but it's almost like the Beatles had put out a follow up to the "White Album" in an off white color. I just know of many of my non joni friends who really liked BSN. They don't give a hoot about "Hejira" or her wonderful artwork. I just see the average person looking at this cover and thinking "Oh, I already have that one". .........however, maybe Joni doesn't give a hoot about *average* people buying her albums. Just my humble opinion. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:10:32 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: New Tori NJC **in other upcoming-release-land, is anyone besides myself excited about the new tori album coming out in 2 weeks?! i have heard snippets from all the songs and a few sound like they're going to be GREAT.** I swore that I was done with her, but she has so much potential, and the buzz on this one is good, I will cave I'm sure. I feel like Charlie Brown running towards the football, expecting Lucy to let him kick it. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:52:31 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: nonesuch Jimmy, The point you made about it being so much like the last one and that some people might think it's BSN all over again and that they already have it is right on! I just throw all logic and sense all out the window when I glimpse one of her new paintings!! But I can just imagine perhaps some of her "people" arguing futilely with her not to go the same route again on the visuals! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:21:42 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: nonesuch Kakki wrote: > The point you made about it being so much like the last one and that some > people might think it's BSN all over again and that they already have it is > right on! I just throw all logic and sense all out the window when I glimpse > one of her new paintings!! But I can just imagine perhaps some of her > "people" arguing futilely with her not to go the same route again on the > visuals! Just a thought.... Does anyone know if this is the absolute final version of the cover art for this CD? Remember the art-work for BSN was completed very "last minute" and I wonder if maybe she's given them a mock-up of the cover, with the final version to come? This "thumb-nail" might be exactly that - just part of the whole painting. Personally I don't really care too much what the cover looks like - I'm going to spend a LOT more time listening to the music, than staring at the cover! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:58:23 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re:hold the phone Kate wrote: <> Kate, I totally agree with you. It is impossible to keep our kids sheltered from other people. We can try, but we still have to work and kids have to go to daycare where there are other kids around. You can't reasonably screen every single person or parent you run into. Are we supposed to not bring them to the park to play ever? Keep all the window shades down so they can never see other kids in the neighborhood? Never take them to the grocery store? Blindfold them when we drive in our cars? The Britney stuff is out of control! People I work with talk about buying their little kids cd's and video's for birthday presents,etc..... Last weekend I went to a Halloween costume store and what did I find? Tons of Britney type costumes made for pre-schoolers! The Reuters article was quite a butchered, slant job imo. These writers totally take Joni out of context. How do we know she wasn't laughing, exaggerating, or being sarcastic? The authors do a great job of painting Joni to be a vengeful, angry woman. And if she is, so what? Mia _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:04:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: nonesuch > Personally I don't really care too much what the cover looks like - I'm > going to spend a LOT more time listening to the music, than staring at the > cover! > > Hell I'm with Hell on this one. Personally I'd buy it if it had a picture of Divine eating a dog turd on the cover! But the thought just occurred to me that this is the second of her orchestral albums with Vince Mendoza and maybe that's the reason for the similarity in covers. Maybe she thinks of this album as a continuation of the last one and this portrait as another study in a series. Maybe. Maybe not. Only Joni knows for sure! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:54:01 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: NJC Energizing comments for your perusal! :-) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:34:55 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: This week in the media... If I were Joni's PR person or manager, I would be extraordinarily frustrated with my client. Here are some highlights of press reports this week on Joni and some of her "competitors"...these are pieces/paraphrasings of real headlines and leads: Linda Ronstadt: Her Magic Touch Lives On Tracy Chapman: Keeps Her In Independent Spirit Faith Hill: Superstar...Grammy....(Whatever...) Joni Mitchell: Ashamed...Cesspool...Crapper Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:47:06 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: nonesuch >Kakki and Mark, I also think it's a GREAT painting, it does show a different >light and mood of Joni, BUT I think we are all biased when it comes to >Joni. oh cool! I just checked it out on the web site. i like it a lot. i like the way she is consistently formatting the art work for her last bunch of records. the picture in the frame, the side bar. and i love that it's proper portraiture too. i'm so pleased to have this access to her paintings. yeah, i really like it. can't wait to see what other works are inside. oooh candy store! les (out inna country, today) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:33:19 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Painting Mark - >Personally I'd buy it if it had a picture of Divine eating a dog turd on the cover! Watch out you don't give Joni any new creative and scathing ideas with her latest mood about the music biz - (trying very hard not to use that "C" word here - heehee) >Maybe she thinks of this album as a continuation of the last one and this portrait as another study in a series. I love your perspective on the portrait and went back again to have another look (and to see if maybe there were any hidden hearts again ;-) The depth is amazing and feels very three-dimensional. I think you are right about a deliberate duality effect. On her face the shadows and light almost form a vague yin yang symbol. I can't wait to see what else is inside. I had a little gasp reading through the song titles again and imagining them in their new incarnations. It's going to be a sweet November. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #431 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)