From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #429 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 429 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 16 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Release Dates: COURT And Spark, MILES Of Aisles [simon@icu.com] Pop Idle/American Ideal/ Canadian idyl [Gordon Mackie ] A Night w/ Bruce Springsteen NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper ["Tom Rodwell" ] Re: Nonesuch question [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Nonesuch question [Les Irvin ] Re: Nonesuch question ["Brenda" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #428 - "Getting Out More" NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Joni's Travelogue cover art [Steve Polifka ] We're My Thrill ["J.David Sapp" ] NJC getting on [colin ] Re: We're My Thrill - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Bali, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Teach Your Children, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: We're My Thrill [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni's Travelogue cover art [Murphycopy@aol.com] Please help me get off this list ["Paul Read" ] Re: Bali, NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: NJC getting on ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper/britney rant ["blon] Mother Hips ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Bali, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Mother Hips (NJC) ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper (njc) ["Kate Bennet] Re: Teach Your Children, NJC (and let your children teach you!) [Bob.Mull] Re: Reuters message boards reactions ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Please help me get off this list ["Christopher Treacy" ----- > For some reason I have this idea that I gave someone a copy of > Miles of Aisles as a Christmas present before Court and Spark > was released. But according to jonimitchell.com Miles of Aisles > as released after Court and Spark. The date on both cds is 1974. > Does anyone know the months they were released. > ----- COURT AND SPARK was released in January 1974 and debuted on Billboard's Popular Albums charts on February 9, 1974. The album peaked at #2, spent 64 weeks on the charts and eventually went double platinum. BTW: there was an earlier little taste when Asylum records released the 'No Sax' version of "Raised On Robbery" on a Promo LP sent to radio broadcasters "Elektra/Asylum Fall 1973 Releases" (EK-Promo-22). MILES OF AISLES was released in November 1974 and debuted on Billboard's Popular Album charts on December 14, 1974. This album also peaked at #2, and spent 22 weeks on the charts; not too shabby for a Live LP. MOA is a certified gold album. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:38:56 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Pop Idle/American Ideal/ Canadian idyl Hi nice peeps Joni's lament at the music biz... aimed at the packaging of music as product.. problem when you see your expression as art...you want fries with that? I laughed at a recent Pete Waterman (of Stock Aitken and Waterman, responsible for a lot of 80's/90's pop) quote saying he got inspiration for a lot of his hits from classical music. I think he said Kylie's 'I should be so lucky' was based on Pachobel's Canon. Aye right. Anyone see French and Saunders piss take of classical artists doing orchestrated pop songs....funnily enough they did a version of ' I should be so locky, locky, locky, locky' Isn't life so political Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:02:24 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: hold the phone! NJC <> Thanks, Kate...I see your point and I understand what you're saying. No matter how hard we try to guard the little ones, those influences can sneak in. And you're right - kids with older sibs do get exposed to things much quicker. I remember being in Cleveland Park playing with Nate when a guy came by with a boombox blasting a song laced with expletives. Though I'm not in favor of censoring music, I realized that it's not always as simple as saying "if you don't want them to hear it, don't let them". Bob NP: The California Suns, "Masked Grandma" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:04:49 +0100 From: colin Subject: NJC Sometimes ... when you cry ... no one sees your tears...... Sometimes... when you are in pain... no one sees your hurt... Sometimes... when you are worried.... no one sees your stress...... Sometimes ... when you are happy ... no one sees your smile ...... but fart just once and everyone knows...... - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:29:06 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: A Night w/ Bruce Springsteen NJC Set your VCR's Europe. It's worth the watch. I've been to two. Can someone tape this for me please? BOSS TV UPDATE: "A NIGHT WITH BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN AND THE E STREET BAND" ON MTV EUROPE On October 16, Springsteen's Barcelona concert will be aired live and commercial-free, across MTV Europe and VH1-UK, as A Night with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. A one-hour backstage special, "Countdown to Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band," will air just prior to the Palau Sant Jordi broadcast. "Coundown" begins at 8:00 p.m. CET (on MTV Euro, MTV Nordic, MTV France, MTV nl, MTV Italy, MTV Romania, MTC Polska, and MTV Spain), with "Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Live" following, from 9:00 to 10:30. VH-1 UK will air the concert from 9:00 p.m. to 10:30 pm BST. MTV Germany will broadcast one day later, beginning at 8:00 p.m. CET; MTV UK will air the show a few weeks later, on November 3 at 8:00 p.m. BST. No word yet on if or when the concert will be broadcast in North America or elsewhere, but we'll pass along any such news as it becomes available, and keep your fingers crossed.... ~rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:49:54 +1300 From: "Tom Rodwell" Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper I have to say I largely agree with what Joni says - while also acknowledging that the article probably misrepresents her interview - due to space constraints probably. Journos (and I am one occasionally) and their editors tend to go for the outlandish quotes. They make good copy. I really doubt if Joni is isolated from new music (her decision to go with Nonesuch shows that - deeply cool label), and given the context the interview appears in (godawful Rolling Shtone on "Women in Rock Music") I interpret her comments as being addressed to the Top 40, major label part of the biz - rather than the the working musos slugging it out in bars worldwide, or young songwriters, or jazzbos or whoever else. And the top 40 is undeniably a cesspool. It's brave of JM to come out saying it at this time, when superficiality now seems like a desirable prerequisite in popular music. Frank Zappa said similar things throughout his career. As has Steve Albini (Nirvan producer etc), who wrote an excellent article for The Baffler magazine, roughly describing success in the industry as equivalent to swimming through a trench full of horse manure. Of course when they (rich white men) do it, it's cool and cynical and avant-garde. Why should JM be described as bitter when she states the same blindingly obvious thing? Tom np Eric Dolphy "The Illinois Concert" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:37:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: joni mention in usa today <> Thanks, Joseph...you've done so much already you're already in my covers hall of fame! :~) Of course I wouldn't say no if you can shed some light on these Dawn recordings...speaking of which I owe you a couple of cd's but thought that maybe your address changed. Send me your latest & greatest and I'll be 'bout getting them to you, my friend. Bob NP: The Gamblers, "Moon Dawg" (Maybe a good nickname for Victor or Paz!) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:09:46 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Nonesuch question What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? RD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:12:52 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #424 - Joni at supermarket I have heard a lot of C&S - Just Like This Train, Twisted, maybe even Trouble Child. I heard Yvette in English at the wine shop - but they don't have Muzak; it was the owner's tape. Somehow, Joni and wine are a natural combination. Ruth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:24:46 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Nonesuch question It looks like an interesting group, including Bobby McFerrin, Philip Glass, Laurie Anderson, Mandy Patinkin, Afro Cuban All Stars. Check out the list on their site: www.nonesuch.com . The cover art for "Travelogue" is there! I hadn't see it until today. The portrait is beautiful... (Hi everyone...I'm back from the lurker's lounge) Reuben in Philadelphia >>> 10/16/02 12:09PM >>> What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? RD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:22:46 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Nonesuch question Engwall57@aol.com wrote: > What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? > > RD When I sang with Schola Cantorum and The Buffalo Philharmonic Orchestra we recorded on Nonesuch. Jerry np: David Lahm - Solid Love ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:23:47 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Nonesuch question At 10/16/2002 10:09 AM, Engwall57@aol.com wrote: >What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? I think it's primarily a classical music label. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:24:31 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Nonesuch question On 16 Oct 2002 at 12:09, Engwall57@aol.com wrote: > What other musicians record, or have recorded, on the Nonesuch label? > > RD A lot - the label has been around for years. Have a look: http://www.nonesuch.com They also have brief info about Joni and Travelogue up, including the cover. Brenda n.p.: Black Sheep - "Do Your Thing" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:00:34 -0400 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #428 - "Getting Out More" NJC > Does Joni need to get out more? What does that expression mean anyway? Crazy? Not well socialized? Naive? "In her own little world"? I'm not necessarily doubting the idea that JM may need to get out more, I really don't know. I just don't really know what it means. Maybe that indicates I need to get out more. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:58:37 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni's Travelogue cover art Well, I'm a little disappointed in the cover art. Granted, the protrait itself is gorgeous, but isn't this the third CD with the same artwork idea? TTT, TI, and now Travelogue? BSN , even though it was a painting, was not a shot of a painting on a wall. I thought TI original cardboard packaging was great, and then with TTT she I felt she got redundant. Some of her other covers were sensational- Hejira for example. A journey- an escape from a dangerous situation, yet the picture has a road going into her- the journey within, where one truly finds escape and release... Blew me away! Don Juan's Reckless Daughter- a Southwest theme: Don Juan, Paprika Plains, turquois, it all fits in. (The magicians, the amazed child, the doves...) Wild Things Run Fast- one of my all time favorite self portraits of her- shoes to the side, looking solemn over a TV set, even though her and Larry smooch away on the inside sleeve... Night Ride Home was eerie in a way, but I loved it- the seer in the scene... So I could go on and on. I thought she might have a pass port or roadmaps or something like postcards... She can be literal with her art as well as obscure... Maybe she sees everything as a portrait, and wants it presented that way. I'd buy that, even though I'm disappointed... Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:13:45 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: We're My Thrill I was up half the night listening to Jonifest 2002 (Thanks Bob - I got the package yesterday). What a thrill! What a blast! You guys are AWESOME. I am so proud to be a member of this community. Thanks to one and all. I also listened to Muller's Sweet 16. It is sweet indeed. Kudos Bob its a great disc. Much to my utter amazement I'm becoming a covers convert. It started with Steve Klink, then Sweet 16,and then yesterday I ordered BYT from CD Baby - AARGH, where will it end? peace, david p.s. Hey Murphy I think the Joni in fiction section is just fine. I know you're a bit sensitive about covers:~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:04:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: NJC getting on The people who are starting college this fall (2002) across the nation were born in 1984. They are too young to remember the space shuttle blowing up. Their lifetime has always included AIDS. Bottle caps have always been screw off and plastic. The CD was introduced the year they were born. They have always had an answering machine. They have always had cable. They cannot fathom not having a remote control. Jay Leno has always been on the Tonight Show. Popcorn has always been cooked in the microwave. They never took a swim and thought about Jaws. They can't imagine what hard contact lenses are. They don't know who Mork was or where he was from. They never heard: "Where's the Beef?", "I'd walk a mile for a Camel", or "de plane , Boss, de plane". They do not care who shot J. R. , and have no idea who J. R. even is. Michael Jackson has always been white. McDonald's never came in Styrofoam containers. They don't have a clue how to use a typewriter. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:13:03 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: We're My Thrill - njc David writes: << Much to my utter amazement I'm becoming a covers convert. << SNIP >> p.s. Hey Murphy I think the Joni in fiction section is just fine. I know you're a bit sensitive about covers:~) >> The fact is, *I* am becoming a covers convert myself after spending a wonderful weekend listening to "Bob's Sweet 16" and "Pazfest." My, that Joni can write! And it's great to hear what truly inspired performers can do with her songs. No, David, I do not hate covers. I just can't stand their king! Take care, --Bob . . . wondering . . . if the JMDL has a *Dating* page, why can't we have a *Hating* page? I'm sure Muller and I wouldn't be the only pair there! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:03:26 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Bali, NJC Kakki wrote: > > If I may ask a question (and not to be argumentative or direct this at you, > Joseph) why must it be assumed that the terrorists are only after the U.S. > or those who support the U.S.? I know that is the propaganda fashionable > among those who like to be anti-U.S., (not you Joseph) but these groups of > terrorists have been killing and terrorizing many other groups of people > mostly unrelated to the U.S. in the world for many years and continue to do > so. Jews in Israel and Europe, Christians in East Timor and Lebanon and > Somalia, Russians in Chechen, Serbs in Bosnia/Croatia, Northern Alliance in > Afghanistan, Hindus in India, Anwar Sadat in Egypt, Kurds in Iraq, rival > mid-east groups and the list goes on and on. I just flip that some in the > world suddenly want to conveniently forget many years of incidents against > people other than Americans or their "supporters." As long as people look > away from the truth, whether deliberately or because they do not know other > information, any hope for a solution will be that much further away. Not > that I have a solution, but as with any problem, one must look at all the > sides of it, honestly, before any real hope for change can happen. Dear Kakki, As you said in your BRILLIANT post, the list goes on and on. The sad truth is that human life doesn't have the same value depending on location. Simple arithmetics: in order to get media attention 5 American lives = 500,000 Tibetans = = 50,000 Kurds = 1 Palestinian = 100,000 Tutsis. These numbers are just an example but you get the idea. Who's to blame: Short attention spans? Journalists? Violent movies? All of the above? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:18:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Teach Your Children, NJC This is an extension over the MTV vs children thread. I am concerned that whenever I play (good) music to my 2 daughters (9 &11) they positively hate it. They listen to the French equivalent of Britney Spears. The only exception was Joni on PWWAM whom they thought wasn't as bad as the rest, and James Raymond (David Crosby's son) whom they found cute. I've been having an off-list discussion with Sarah Cartwright who thinks that the music gets ingrained in them no matter what. But I'd like to know how JMDLers have either succeeded or failed in instilling good musical taste to their children. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:20:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: We're My Thrill <> Face the facts, David...you won't rest until you have the whole collection from Volume 1 up! ;~)(Currently I'm working on #39!) Realistically, that may not be necessary, although for ME they all have stood up well over time...I mean Gershwin/Cole Porter/Rodgers songs are great songs and I love hearing them sung by whoever. Why should Joni compositions be treated any differently? I would also recommend Lydia van Dam's "Both Sides Now", a superb collection of jazz-influenced vocal renditions, as well as "A Bird That Whistles", a Swedish tribute. Sadly, both of these are out of print, but I'm happy to make copies as you well know. Pazfest should also be on the list...can't remember if you already have that. And our own David Lahm has put out 2 cd's of great jazz Joni covers, which I wouldn't be without. I'm sure these are still in print and available. And as you say, the Fest CD's are proof of the wealth of talent that exists within our own ranks. And who knows? I MIGHT be inspired/cajoled to do another Sweet 16 some day. :~) Bob NP: The Choir, "It's Cold Outside" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:21:28 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Travelogue cover art Steve writes: << Maybe she sees everything as a portrait, and wants it presented that way. I'd buy that, even though I'm disappointed... >> And what is that in the lower left-hand corner of the portrait? Is it cigarette smoke? She's relentless! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:32:18 +0100 From: "Paul Read" Subject: Please help me get off this list I joined in the hope of adding a few live/outtake CDRs to my official Joni CDs. Sadly the only 2 offers I've had wanted a silly amount of money rather than a genuine trade and I feel I'm wasting my time . This is a great disappointment given the excellent trading I've enjoyed with other groups Best wishes Paul Read ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:44:30 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: We're My Thrill > And who knows? I MIGHT be inspired/cajoled to do another Sweet 16 some day. > :~) well i think you should - i thought everything about it was quite inspired, the selection, the order - a wonderful tribute to our Ludwig, Dear Joan from Saskatoon. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:34:43 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Bali, NJC Laurent wrote: Simple arithmetics: in order to get media attention 5 American lives = 500,000 Tibetans = 50,000 Kurds = 1 Palestinian = 100,000 Tutsis. These numbers are just an example but you get the idea. Who's to blame: Short attention spans? Journalists? Violent movies? All of the above? and now me: Laurent, I think your math is off. The number of Tutsis for example is at least 750,000 and even that did not really catch American attention, even though the killing of 750,000 Tutsis happened within the last 10 years, I am sure most Americans could not tell you where that happened, or that they even remember it. I think you are also way low on the other numbers too. And our current administration ran in the last campaign opposed to American peace keeing troops being in Bosnia despite the massacres there. Hell, more than twice as many people were killed in one day at Srebrenica then werte killed on September 11 and who remebers that even though that also was within the last 10 years. We are a self-absorbed people. If you asked Americans to identify Anna Nicole Smith, Kelly Clakson, Srebrenica, and where 750,000 Tutsis were slaughtered, most could only answer the first two. And that is just the way it is. Its sad. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:41:15 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: NJC getting on Wow Colin, You really know how to make someone born in the '74 feel old(er) :) I used to work at a whole foods grocery with a guy who was born in 1980, I would always say to him, "I can't believe you were born in the '80's!!!!!!!" It was so strange to me. My husband was born in '71 and he's always saying, " You probably don't remember this song playing on the radio when you were a kid", as if he's SO much older. I'm proud to be a 70's child, even if it was the decade age in obstetrics (my poor mum!) Colin wrote: The people who are starting college this fall (2002) across the nation were born in 1984. They are too young to remember the space shuttle blowing up. Their lifetime has always included AIDS. Bottle caps have always been screw off and plastic. The CD was introduced the year they were born. They have always had an answering machine. They have always had cable. They cannot fathom not having a remote control. Jay Leno has always been on the Tonight Show. Popcorn has always been cooked in the microwave. They never took a swim and thought about Jaws. They can't imagine what hard contact lenses are. They don't know who Mork was or where he was from. They never heard: "Where's the Beef?", "I'd walk a mile for a Camel", or "de plane , Boss, de plane". They do not care who shot J. R. , and have no idea who J. R. even is. Michael Jackson has always been white. McDonald's never came in Styrofoam containers. They don't have a clue how to use a typewriter. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:42:42 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper/britney rant [>From: "Tom Rodwell" And the top 40 is undeniably a cesspool. It's brave of JM to come out saying it at this time, when superficiality now seems like a desirable prerequisite in popular music. Frank Zappa said similar things throughout his career. As has Steve Albini (Nirvan producer etc), who wrote an excellent article for The Baffler magazine, roughly describing success in the industry as equivalent to swimming through a trench full of horse manure. Of course when they (rich white men) do it, it's cool and cynical and avant-garde. Why should JM be described as bitter when she states the same blindingly obvious thing? ] Nicely said.... I am not upset about what she said because I think she is right, and it takes balls to say some of the things she has. Joni has never been one to mince words. I think being upset with her comments is a bit of an overreaction but alas everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If she wasn't constantly challenging the system then she wouldn't be Joni Mitchell. The only problem I do have with the article is the nerve of that reporter to ask her if she had any advice for Christina or Britney??? How insulting!!! That is really what we should be pissed about. Waste more space in that absolute piece of shit rag to promote Britney or Christina??? They should rename it Whoring Bimbos. It is horrendous and an insult to our intelligence (but lets face it intelligence is not a requirement anymore in "popular" American culture). When are they finally going to pose naked in Playboy or star in a porno together so they can be done with?????? Not soon enough!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:50:17 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Mother Hips I was wondering if anyone out there in Joni-Land knows of the Northern CA based band Mother Hips? Everyone here seems to know alot about different types of music so I thought I'd throw it out there. When I lived in Arcata, CA I saw them play a couple times and when I moved back to NH I saw there CD in a used music store, this lead me to believe maybe they have more of a name for themselves than I realized. They were alot of fun to hear live! Erica NP: GD, "Easy Wind" _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:56:36 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Bali, NJC > We are a self-absorbed people. If you asked Americans to > identify Anna Nicole Smith, Kelly Clakson, Srebrenica, and > where 750,000 Tutsis were slaughtered, most could only > answer the first two. > > And that is just the way it is. Its sad. > > Vince Never heard of Anna and Kelly. I'm not being facetious. Thanks for the maths correction. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:53:55 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Mother Hips (NJC) SO sorry I forgot to put the NJC tag on the end!!! Je m'excuse!! - -Erica _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:19:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper (njc) i've enjoyed brenda & kakki's discussions on the music biz... i've had friends, like brenda mentioned...working for a major...working really hard for the love of the music & getting a salary not far above minimum wage...& others who have told me how all of their personal expenses (food, travel, entertainment, etc) were charged back to the artist as promotional expenses... i have friends who have been very successful in the music biz (as songwriters & musicians) & am amazed that they actually did so well considering the acounting practices mentioned- yet these same artists tell me how wretched it is dealing with the biz end of things...one told me he had considered quitting because it was just so bad...one band i know never saw a dime for many years, although they hit the big big time- but this is a common story... all this is why people are migrating in droves to the smaller, independent labels...which is a good thing... this is just my opinion, based on my experience not facts about joni...but it is my guess that when joni is bitter towards the biz, it isn't about the money, its about the unfairness of the practices in general...& i am glad joni is speaking out & that more people are now speaking out because as brenda says, things have not changed & there are still so many illusions people have about they think it works as opposed to how it actually does work... (this does not include any dissing of other artists...that is not cool) & like others have mentioned...some of the opinions mentioned in the articles about joni are recycled from many years ago! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:34:15 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Teach Your Children, NJC (and let your children teach you!) It has to work both ways...I let my son expose me to what he enjoys (a lot of it is not good imo, but some is great), and then he's open to what I want to have HIM hear. Kids aged 9 & 11 (as a general rule) will not have the sophistication to appreciate the Ry Cooders, Joni Mitchells, and Rickie Lee Jones of the world. They want something with a good beat OR something that their friends like. Peer pressure in terms of music can be tremendous for teens & pre-teens. Anyway, you can't force it...it didn't work for our parents and won't work for our kids. But with time & mutual respect you'll find them picking up on things that will surprise you. And once you get the common ground it only gets easier! Bob NP: New Colony Six, "At The River's Edge" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:19:07 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Reuters message boards reactions > For example, I doubt that Joni has "written off" Sting, Morissette and Crow > (whatever it means to "write them off"). Still, such an assertion can get a > rise out of the reader. This is from a Details interview from July of 1996: Joni: Alanis Morissette writes words, someone else helps set it to music, and then she's kind of stylized into the part. To me, Sheryl Crow is a style invention, and I know some of her inventors. As far as Sting is concerned, this is what she had to say: It's been said that Sting wouldn't have come up with his world-music/fusion bit if you hadn't done it first on Hissing. Joni: (laughs) Sting is a tributary of James [Taylor] and me and we call him our son, so whenever I'd see Sting I'd say, "Hello, son." Because for a long time he liked to think of himself as a pioneer blazing new territory, when in fact he wasn't. He did some bold moves, but blaze a trail? No. Me again. I think she's made similar comments about Sting being 'mine & James' illegitimate child'. I don't think she means to completely trash him. She just doesn't think he's necessarily the great innovator that he is sometimes said to be. In fact most of Joni's beefs about other artists have to do with giving credit where credit is due. A lot of musicians who are hailed a trail-blazers are merely following paths that she and others have already trod in Joni's mind. I do agree that there is music worth listening to and if Joni isn't aware of that, then she needs to get a clue. If she is aware of it, it would be nice to see her talking about that for a change rather than trashing what we already know is mostly mediocre at best (top 40 radio). But then again, maybe nobody asks her about independent or non-top 40 music and if they do, maybe her reactions never make it into print. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:25:00 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > I am not upset about what she said because I think she is right, and it > takes balls to say some of the things she has. Joni has never been one > to mince words. I think being upset with her comments is a bit of an > overreaction but alas everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If she > wasn't constantly challenging the system then she wouldn't be Joni > Mitchell. The thing is she's not challenging the system, she's just complaining about it, and has been since "For the Roses" and maybe even before that. So 30 years of hearing the same complaints is a bit tiresome. I'd find her remarks easier to take if she was trying to find some other way of doing things. Perhaps she is but if so, she's not talking about that. Debra Shea NP: Aimee Mann, "I Should've Known" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:41:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Please help me get off this list <> Too bad you came with a private agenda Paul...I joined up just to talk about Joni Mitchell, and I wound up with more live/outtake cd's than I thought existed! Best wishes to you as well, Bob - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:40:26 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Ryan Adams Just saw Ryan Adams for the fifth time last night. Anyone here on the list like him? He is a great songwriter and performer... has a wonderful voice, plays both guitar and piano. Anyway, he played an acoustic show here in Chicago last night that was just fabulous. His piano playing reminds me of Joni's, that's why I brought it up... at any rate, he's 28 and while his songs are usually pretty serious stuff about love and failed relationships and all that, he exudes a goofy charm and makes jokes between songs... Heartbreaker is his best record, Gold is not bad, and the new one (Demolition) is pretty good too... he was in an alt-country band called Whiskeytown for some years too. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:52:53 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: RE: Please help me get off this list Paul, I would urge you not to act so harshly so quickly. I think perhaps you've just had an unfortunate run in with the wrong listers...When I first joined this list over 2 years ago, and in no time at all, I had managed to double my JM rarities collection. When trades were not possible, I did pay a tiny bit of cash for blanks and postage, but that's all (and there have been an equal number of instances where people have sent me recordings a/o videos out of the pure kindness of their hearts). Since then, my collection has (at least) quadrupled. This list is truly about the love of music. I might add that since I last participated in this community, I did join another list in relation to a band that I've followed since I was about 10. I have to say that, IMHO, we're a very sophisticated and well educated group of Internet-savvy people. You WOULD NOT BELIEVE the sort of nonsense I encountered on this other list. I attempted to organize a CDR tree and lost my patience rather quickly with the amount of totally clueless emails I was getting in response. Finally, the moderator had to step in and offered to take over the tree which is (alas) still in the planning stages. So here I am - and all I ever wanted was just to come in from the cold. - -Chris, out of absentee mode with (gasp) 1886 'only-Joni' messages to review and clear from his JMDL dedicated mailbox...it's nice to be back, Travelogue fever and all. NP: New Ben Folds Live CD....Good Shit! [Original Message] > From: Paul Read > To: > Date: 10/16/2002 1:32:18 PM > Subject: Please help me get off this list > > I joined in the hope of adding a few live/outtake CDRs to my official Joni > CDs. Sadly the only 2 offers I've had wanted a silly amount of money rather > than a genuine trade and I feel I'm wasting my time . This is a great > disappointment given the excellent trading I've enjoyed with other groups > > Best wishes > > Paul Read - --- Christopher Treacy - --- ctreacy1889@earthlink.net - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:58:49 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper By challenging I meant her music, not her stance on the music industry or what steps, if any, she is taking to change it. >From: dsk >Reply-To: dsk >To: blonde in the bleachers , joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:25:00 -0400 > >blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > > > I am not upset about what she said because I think she is right, and it > > takes balls to say some of the things she has. Joni has never been one > > to mince words. I think being upset with her comments is a bit of an > > overreaction but alas everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If she > > wasn't constantly challenging the system then she wouldn't be Joni > > Mitchell. > >The thing is she's not challenging the system, she's just complaining >about it, and has been since "For the Roses" and maybe even before that. >So 30 years of hearing the same complaints is a bit tiresome. I'd find >her remarks easier to take if she was trying to find some other way of >doing things. Perhaps she is but if so, she's not talking about that. > >Debra Shea > >NP: Aimee Mann, "I Should've Known" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:43:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Reuters message boards reactions <> In the last little "blurb" interview she did in RS, about a year and a half or so ago, she commented that she enjoyed the New Radicals CD, which I thought was cool as I had just discovered it around the same time. I'm with Kakki - she needs to sign up on her list and she'll hear about more good new music than she can shake her "crotchety" stick at! ;~) Bob NP: Aimee Mann, "Deathly" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:14:53 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Reuters message boards reactions > I'm with Kakki - she needs to sign up on her list and she'll hear about > more good new music than she can shake her "crotchety" stick at! ;~) > I was thinking about this the other day as well. Like most of us, I suspect, I fantasize about recording an album and becoming a critically acclaimed singer (interpreter in my fantasy, since I don't write songs). If that were to ever happen (maybe in an alternate universe or a galaxy far, far away), I would log off of this discussion list as fast as I could and never, *never* subscribe to it again! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:10:59 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC NP: New Ben Folds Live CD.... Hey & welcome back, Chris... I'm loving that Ben Folds CD. I had traded earlier this year for a live show from his tour and was not happy with the sound quality - a poor audience recording. But this one is something else! Of course I love his stuff, and his cover of "Tiny Dancer" is superb. Lots of similarities between him & Sir Elton anyway. And talk about a deal! I got the live CD (71 minutes +) AND a bonus live DVD with another 35 minutes of live video, all on sale for $13.99!! I was one for 2 last week. As good as the BF is, the Tom Petty really blows. Bob NP: Supertramp, "Goodbye Stranger" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:38:00 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > By challenging I meant her music, not her stance on the music industry > or what steps, if any, she is taking to change it. Your comment was about her remarks about the music biz, the "system", so no wonder I misunderstood. I agree completely that her music is challenging listening. Debra Shea > >blonde in the bleachers wrote: > > > > If she > > > wasn't constantly challenging the system then she wouldn't be Joni > > > Mitchell. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:57:04 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Travelogue cover art In a message dated 10/16/2002 1:00:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: > Well, I'm a little disappointed in the cover art. Granted, the protrait > itself is gorgeous, but isn't this the third CD with the same artwork idea? > TTT, TI, and now Travelogue? I completely agree Steve! With Joni concentrating on her artwork so much these days, I would think she could have come up with something more interesting. If she was leaning on her hand and elbow, I would think it was BSN again. The is the kind of cover that if the average person picked up "Travelogue" while browsing in the record store, they's say "Oh I already have this one". Not a smart marketing move IMO. (better than a hat box though :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: NJC Re: Please help me get off this list Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: Too bad you came with a private agenda Paul...I joined up just to talk about Joni Mitchell, and I wound up with more live/outtake cd's than I thought existed! and I joined the list to listen and learn from other Joni MItchell fans and I ended up finding the love of my life, as well as friends who have become family to me. oh yea, and I have learned a thang or two about that Mitchell woman ... a fellow Canadian at that ;-) Not to mention hills of CDs, videos...and on and on it goes. The people on this list are the most loving, giving people Ive ever had the privilege of knowing. happily married mags :-)) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #429 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)