From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #427 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 15 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 427 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- recording update(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: Reuters message boards reactions ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: NJC Re: Reuters message boards reactions [Penny ] Re: was Joni on the music biz...now pop music history (njc) ["Brenda" ] Re: Joni on the music biz [AzeemAK@aol.com] hold the phone! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: hold the phone! ["Brenda" ] was hold the phone...Rolling Stone vs. Reuters stories ["Brenda" ] Re: Thinking of Lori (NJC) [colin ] RE: travelogue, was Miles of Aisles Question ["patrick leader" ] NJC Re: check out this article in Billboard about Richard X Heyman Joni content [SCJoniGuy] Re: joni is crotchety! [colin ] NJC Re: joni is crotchety! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Miles of Aisles Question ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: joni mention in usa today [] Re: NJC Re: joni is crotchety! [Michael Paz ] Re: recording update(njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: Bali (njc) [] RE: joni is crotchety! ["Heather" ] Re: Seasonal Joni [] RE: hold the phone! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Bali (njc) ["kakki" ] RE: joni mention in usa today njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: was Joni on the music biz...now pop music history (njc) [Murphycopy@a] Re: Joni on the music biz [Chihuahua50@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:20:56 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: recording update(njc) I feel like I'm living in the studio! I've been working pretty much every weekday for the last two weeks and things are really coming together. For the past two days, we had this amazing drummer/percussionist, River Guerguerian, laying down some drum tracks. Among many other things, he played on and helped develop the soundtrack to "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". He used to live in New York City but has been living here in Asheville for awhile. In any case, there's going to be some very phat percussion on this cd! Guitar and bass to come next... It's almost like living in a different world. The rest of the world just becomes kind of secondary. Won't be able to wrap things up till February but definately off to a very solid start. Victor NP: River Guerguerian "Trance"....an awesome collection of world instruments and found sounds... - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:32:34 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Reuters message boards reactions Anyway, if you have a disire to read more Joni content and > some of the reactions to last night's Reuters article, the message boards > there are jumping. Here's the link and one example. The pro/con have > been pretty evenly split from what I've read there so far. I read a few of them. One person who apparently doesn't care for her says her voice sounds like a French police siren. I thought that was somewhat of a weird analogy...a bit extreme in my opinion (even if they don't like her voice.) Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:40:22 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz and it going in the crapper On 15 Oct 2002 at 10:17, Emily Gray Tedrowe wrote: > hi everyone. > > i have to say, i find joni's ranting and raving about the "cesspool" > music industry so tired. it makes me think she doesn't get out much > anymore-- what the heck kind of music does she play for herself these > days? only her own stuff, dylan's, and...??? that's pretty > depressing. why has no one of her crowd found a way to introduce her > to all the passionate, artistic, visionary musicians that are > recording these days? duh, everyone knows that britney et al. are > nothing more than pop guilty pleasures (at best)--it seems so beneath > joni to take that on-- such a straw man for her (usually) insightful > thinking. > > and, frankly, it really bugs me when she whines about money, not > wanting to "line their pockets," complaining about no royalties, etc. > that also makes me think she is losing touch with people who might > actually want to buy her music. i realize that she is not insanely > wealthy--but is that what she is about now? how confusing! in my > opinion, she should remember what it was like to hang out with the > waitresses all wearing black diamond earrings, talking about zombies > and singapore slings. enough of this "david geffen has more money > than i do" crap. > > i've always found joni's anger refreshing and vital--but this > bitterness strikes me as misdirected and irrelevant. > > wow, sorry for the out-of-nowhere bad mood! > Emily, I'm not in a bad mood and I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately (or, maybe fortunately) I've been under a tight deadline for the last week so I'll have to keep this brief. 1) Joni has made millions of dollars from the music industry. Far more than just about all of the recording artists she complains about and criticizes. 2) The music industry has been the same "cesspool" for years. If it's so bad, why make any deal at all? Why not ask Warners to let her buy "Travelogue" from them and put it out herself? Why does she continue to be such an armchair jockey instead of putting her money where her mouth is? 3) Any musician who wants to sell music in music retail stores (not just at shows or on the net) SHOULD NOT wish for the demise of the industry. If the major labels aren't there to deliver the bulk of the music that retailers sell, there will be NO music retail. OK...back to work. Brenda n.p.: Bjork - "Unravel" - ------------------------------ Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:43:15 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: check out this article in Billboard about Richard X Heyman Joni content Check out this great article about my friend Richard in the most recent Billboard! Joni content alert!! Billboard October 19, 2002, page 52 Words & Music by Jim Bessman Heyman's Heyday: Acclaimed New York singer/songwriter Richard X. Heyman, whose previous album, Cornerstone (1998), was on now-defunct label Permanent Press, suddenly has a new album out (Basic Glee, on his own Turn-Up Records); a companion disc on the way, thanks to novel self-marketing; and an autobiography, Boom Harangue - Life in Mid-Century Through The Eyes of a Rock'n'Roll Survivor (Writers Club Press). The book, baby boomer Heyman notes, comprises "short stories dealing with my brushes with fame and the funny things that happened growing up as a musician in the '60s." A guitarist who started playing drums when he was 7, Heyman has plenty of memories on which to draw. "I look pretty young but I'm just backdated," the still-boyish artist says, stealing a lyric from the Who's "Substitute." While he does not divulge his exact age, he's decidedly proud of having made it through the '60s and offers many entertaining stories from that period. One concerns an opening stint for the Beach Boys by his band the Doughboys (shortly after a name change from the Ascots, which had recorded a pair of singles for Bell Records): After breaking a borrowed floor tom, the group withstood an angry assault by its irate owner, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson. Heyman also declares his "worship" of Joni Mitchell. "I learned to play piano from [Mitchell's 1970 album] Ladies of the Canyon - that and the Band's second album really hit home in terms of song composition," he says. "I used to listen to what she was doing with her left hand, learned how her chords flowed, and adapted it: The way you play piano affects the way you write, because you write within your ability. Listening to Joni expanded my ability." Heyman eventually switched to guitar and began writing "what I call 'melodic pop music,'" he says. His new album was recorded at his East Village Tabby Road home studio; he and wife Nancy Leigh (also his bass player/engineer) are big cat lovers. But they cut 34 tracks for the 14-song disc, and 14 of the remainder will soon end up on Rightovers ("as opposed to Leftovers," Heyman says). "I did a presale on Basic Glee involving two different [fan] clubs," Heyman explains. "For $25, the 'Basic Glee booster' received an autographed copy . For $50, the 'Basic Glee choir member' got the autographed copy, their name in the liner notes, and the exclusive Rightovers." But Heyman notes that Rightovers may appear in general release as well. "Ironically, people who have heard it already say it may be the best thing I've ever done," he says, "since the songs are more adventurous and daring - - and not what I would normally include on my albums." Meanwhile, the Arrex Aitch Music (BMI) writer has been promoting Basic Glee on his richardxheyman.com website and at "house concerts" in fans' living rooms. "They invite all their friends, and it's so intimate that sometimes we don't even use a PA," says Heyman, whose recent house concert in Louisville, Ky., was lensed for a segment on an upcoming episode of the PBS series Right on the Money - about artists who promote their work in atypical ways. ~rose ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:45:23 -0400 From: vince Subject: WB Penny! Penny! About time you came back! Good to see your name again in my inbox! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:46:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Subject: Re: NJC Re: Reuters message boards reactions Thanks and rest assured, brother Bob, I'll never forget you. :-) Pretty fun, all over the board, no holds barred reading, I thought. Glad you enjoyed it too. Penny Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:04:49 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: was Joni on the music biz...now pop music history (njc) On 15 Oct 2002 at 10:17, Emily Gray Tedrowe wrote: > duh, everyone knows that britney et al. are > nothing more than pop guilty pleasures (at best)--it seems so beneath > joni to take that on-- such a straw man for her (usually) insightful > thinking. Here's a fairly amusing piece of trivia: On this day, October 15th in 1977, Debbie Boone's "You Light Up My Life" began it's 10 week ride as the number one song in the country. Last week's number one was American Idol, Kelly Clarkson with "A Moment Like This." Not much has changed. Pop music is what it is and has been for a long time. Brenda n.p.: Bjork - "Immature" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:15:09 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: One more thing Joni needs..... On 15 Oct 2002 at 3:31, BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > .....is Faith Hill's goddamned fucking hype machine. Holy crap, I > expect to open my medicine cabinet one morning and be greeted by FAITH > HILL THIS AND FAITH HILL THAT. It is relentless. > The problem is Joni doesn't seem even remotely interested in feeding the machine like Faith does. I mean, can you just see Joni doing an easy, breezy beautiful Cover Girl commercial with Queen Latifah? ; ) B n.p.: Bjork - "Pluto" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:30:35 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz In a message dated 15/10/2002 15:17:45 GMT Daylight Time, ekg200@nyu.edu writes: << i have to say, i find joni's ranting and raving about the "cesspool" music industry so tired. it makes me think she doesn't get out much anymore-- what the heck kind of music does she play for herself these days? only her own stuff, dylan's, and...??? I was beginning to wonder whether I was exaggerating the extent to which she has carped about the music business and complained there's nothing worth listening to around - some hope! I do wish she'd stop moaning about it as well, it is so unclassy. The old cliche about "she should get out more" does seem apt. There is PLENTY of good music out there, in and out of record shops. There are PLENTY of people making music far more interesting than you've been making recently. Go and give them a try, you have nothing to fear! Azeem in London NP: Eyes Wide Shut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:46:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: hold the phone! RS "Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network." this doesn't mean the child's parents are letting the child watch these videos!...she might be hanging out with kids whose older siblings watch MTV & do the crotch grab...correct me if i am wrong but this statement led someone here to assume that the child's mother was lame for letting her watch mtv? whoa...big leaps of assumptions going on here! RS "In holding up Bob Dylan and herself as the standard for songwriting, she has written off devotees like Sting, Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow." the above is the writers opinion, a writer for rolling stone btw...i'd be more inclined to be upset at joni if i read what she ACTUALLY said in the context of an interview (& i do know she disses people which i aggree is totally uneccessary)...however...writers choose words according to their own agenda...for instance in the very first quote above, the writer could have said 'mitchell chided or was saddened...rather than lambasted...so the writers choice of words puts the subject (joni) in the light he chooses to put her...i read what writers say joni said with a very critical eye...no wonder she gets upset at being misunderstood... RS "Mitchell has also previously savaged her former label boss David Geffen for not paying her any royalties, although he has countered that her albums never sold enough copies to cover the advance payments that she received from him." i know people get tired of hearing her complain about this but again this writer has chosen a very deliberately negative word- savaged...i think this writer has an attitude & an agenda... major labels are notorious for withholding royalties & altering the math in their favor...i'd be willing to guess that it isn't the money joni is upset about as much as the the sleezy assed business practices of a so called former friend.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:55:41 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: hold the phone! On 15 Oct 2002 at 15:46, Kate Bennett wrote: > > RS "Mitchell has also previously savaged her former label boss David > Geffen for not paying her any royalties, although he has countered > that her albums never sold enough copies to cover the advance payments > that she received from him." > > i know people get tired of hearing her complain about this but again > this writer has chosen a very deliberately negative word- savaged...i > think this writer has an attitude & an agenda... major labels are > notorious for withholding royalties & altering the math in their > favor...i'd be willing to guess that it isn't the money joni is upset > about as much as the the sleezy assed business practices of a so > called former friend.... > I agree with you on the selectiveness of the quotes. It's hard to know who said what. Whether she brought it up or the writer just decided to include it, this Geffen thing is such ancient history, it's ridiculous to see it even talked about in the context of what's going on with Joni today. B - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:28:43 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: was hold the phone...Rolling Stone vs. Reuters stories On 15 Oct 2002 at 15:46, Kate Bennett wrote: > > RS "In holding up Bob Dylan and herself as the standard for > songwriting, she has written off devotees like Sting, Alanis > Morissette and Sheryl Crow." > > the above is the writers opinion, a writer for rolling stone btw... Just thought I'd point out that there are two different stories. The Rolling Stone one, which you'll find here: http://www.rollingstone.com/features/coverstory/featuregen.asp?pid=1250 And the Reuters one which is here: http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021014/en_nm/leisure_mitchell_dc_2 David Wild wrote the Rolling Stone one but the Reuters piece is an unattributed wire story (which does not read like Wild at all and may not be from a RS writer). It hacks up the RS interview and makes it look much worse than what it was (except that last paragraph in the RS story). (Wonder is Bravo picked up Musicians...would be nice if Wild had Joni on there.) OK....my flurry is over....back to work. B n.p.: Talvin Singh featuring Leone - "Distant God" - ------------------------------ Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:58:05 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Cowboy Junkies, Last night in Indianapolis, Indiana; njc Lama Your LSD drip has somehow gotten ahead of the prozac one. Will you please close one eye and reach over and make the appropo adjustments. Thank you! Your faithful core fan base. Paz on 10/14/02 9:28 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama) at jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > Last night's Cowboy Junkies show at Indianapolis, Indiana's Birdy's > nightclub was an unusual appearance. Very. > > My first clue that it was gonna be a weird night was when we stopped for > gas. The guy behind the counter was wearing a turban and was arguing Middle > Eastern politics with the normally silent bassist, Alan Anton. Alan was so > passionate about Pakistani politics, he was like a speed freak. That's > different. (He's right about building a coalition- it's the ONLY way.) > > When we arrived at the venue, there were broken flower vases all OVER the > parking lot. > > Inside the front door, Pete was collect signatures for an anti-war petition. > He rewarded each signer with one of Margo's flowers, bowed gracefully, and > planted a light kiss on the back of the right hand. > > The normally refined and gracious Jeff Bird was trying to pick a fight with > a bouncer over a parking spot, threatening to never return to "a fascist, > rule-based country like Amerika". Strange times. > > In the end it was the wallflower, the reluctant star, the retiring > songwriter who made the whole night. Mike spun amazingly clever and > detailed yarns about the inspiration behind each song. At one point, he > climbed a light tower and proclaimed, "I'm free! People love me! It really > *IS* *OKAY*!!" He was unstoppable but the lack of attention seemed to > catapult his sister into a drunken rage. > > Poor Margo. She was slugging Jack Daniels straight from the bottle most of > the night. At one point she pulled "a Joni Mitchell", screaming at the > Geese, "You're too RUDE to deserve this music! SHU--UU-UT THE HELL > UUU-UUUU-UP!!!!" > > Ultimately, Mike had to pull her off the front row; she was clawing the face > of some pregnant woman wearing Dutch shoes. After that, Management threw > them out so we had the meet-and-greet in the parking lot, where it all > started. Birdy's sold their equipment from the stage entrance. I got > Michael's teal Gretch for $50. > > > You should'a been there. It was a night for the ages. > > > Lamadoo > > Unless this is a late April Fools's post. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:06:46 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: vocal range NJC I can confirm this. And the allergy thing is much deeper than only this. A friend of mine who checked out by his own hand many years ago had his first and only son at the same time as Mikey (my first) was born. Harlan and his wife NEVER gave the child any milk products at all. At the time of his death which would have put the boys at about 4 years old his child had never been sick one day in his life. No colic, no sniffles, no colds. No nada! In lieu of milk he gave the child mashed banana and water from birth (ok you monkees in the back row settle the feck down right now!!!). I went to an allergist along with Mikey for many years and did all the tests and shots and stuff and indeed we ARE allergic. BUT who the feck can give up cheeeeeeese (esp. With friends like my Uncle John and Aunt Claud). PLEASE don9t get me started on his topic!! Best Paz on 10/14/02 10:42 PM, dsk at dsk11@bellatlantic.net wrote: > William Chavez wrote: >> >> One more thing, Judy Collins once stated that dairy products were bad for >> singers!?!? I don't think adults should be drinking milk period but why >> singers? Professional vocalist out there?? Know the answer? > > Friends who are professional singers tell me that dairy products create > extra mucus, which can coat the vocal chords, kinda makes them all > gummy. Icky. I take their word for it. Extra mucus can also affect their > sinus cavities, which would then effect the sound of their voice. I > think that's a concern especially for classical singers who rely on > projecting their voice rather than using a microphone to be heard. > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:49:06 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Thinking of Lori (NJC) I recall vividly some of the films I saw as a child that really distubred me. I saw The Green Berets at about 10 years old. imo, a film i should not have been taken to see. I also saw The Music Lovers before age 12. I remember Mary Queen of Scots , a film for school history. Allt hese films had violent disturbing sceneds in them. Later I have seen loads of films with disturbing and violent scenes in them. I am sure many of us have. Now we only have to turn on the news. One of the papers yesderday had a full page colour photto of a man on fire at the scene of the Bali bimbing. I don't think video games or violence on film/tv are the cause of the violence on our streets. I think the cause is the way we bring up children. the lack of respect they are shown, the fact they come down the list of priorities, that they are considered stupid, like they don't know the double standards put out by us adults, that they are considered resilient and are good at forgetting what has been done to them, that they don't understand anything, and that they are moulded into what is wnated rather encouraged to be who they are. Children who are not loved and valued are unable to love and value. If all children were loved and valued NOW, the next gebnrations would see an end to the crap. We blame everyone else but ourselves. we are all responsible. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:51:06 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: travelogue, was Miles of Aisles Question first, i usually don't chime in on the birthday parade, but roberto, les r and maggie? that's a sweet trio of libras! warm thoughts to all of you... >I'm going to have the toughest job >with Hejira which for me is an almost holy relic. I'll want to >like it, but >if it ain't right it ain't eva gonna get listened to again.. > those of us who saw the orchestra tour and/or scored tapes of shows from it are not worried about hejira. that song is sacred joni for me as well, but the orchestra version i love-loved live. it's based on that late eighties jam session she had with shorter, hancock and mcferrin on the song, in a latin dance rhythm. it works perfectly, as far as i'm concerned. you can assuage your fears about 'be cool' and 'for the roses' as well. the folks who are fond of 'judgement' seemed happy with its orchestral incarnation, too. i'm really excited about travelogue. it seems just brilliant to me that she's doing 'slouching toward bethlehem'. some other choices really excite me, as well. i'm also just really thrilled that she's putting another vocal version down of some of these songs. the only thing i'm dreading is songs i don't like much, particularly 'sex kills'. i like bsn very much, but i think she was singing the standards so much better a year later. i wish she had taken the orchestral versions of a lot of travelogue on tour before recording. i don't know if that would have been financially feasable, but i wish... that's why i'm glad she's sung the songs so much in other settings. at least there's a comfort level. patrick, rambling a bit... np - glass - dance #5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:03:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: hold the phone! **she might be hanging out with kids whose older siblings watch MTV & do the crotch grab...correct me if i am wrong but this statement led someone here to assume that the child's mother was lame for letting her watch mtv? whoa...big leaps of assumptions going on here!** Kate, the girl is THREE! What if she were hanging out with "older siblings" who were watching a porno movie? I'm not singling out Kilauren, I'm saying that a 3-year-old has no business watching MTV, and if she is, then the parents are not doing their job, whether Daisy's sitting on her lap watching it or whether Kilauren has turned her over to whoever to babysit. It's bad parenting in my book (but don't get me wrong, it's very common parenting). Where's Julie Z. Webb when you need her? ;~) > **i know people get tired of hearing her complain about this but again this > writer has chosen a very deliberately negative word- savaged...i think this > writer has an attitude & an agenda...** The same writer intros the interview with "Let's face the facts: Joni Mitchell is one of the greatest songwriters ever - no gender required." I found the piece to be very positive. Like Brenda said, the "Reuters" edit puts a bit of a different spin on it. The issue also names Blue as the #2 Essential Album (Aretha's "I Never Loved A Man..." is #1), and there are more Joni mentions throughout than Patels in the New Delhi phone book. They mention her recording STAS as a defining moment in history, and there are a couple of good pics too, including the one which accompanies the interview which is beautiful and in which Joni makes no attempt to cover her age (unlike Stevie Nicks who has so much makeup caked on you have to just take their word for it that's it her! LOL Nikki!) Bob NP: Bruce, "Empty Sky" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:03:15 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: joni is crotchety! ><granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the >video clips played on the music cable network.>> i love joni but i have to say... she doesn't sound like anyone i would want to know personally, based on her crotchety attitude! who'd have thought joni would think that 'grabbing her crotch and dancing' is that horrible? i'm surprised joni would rather complain about explicit sexuality than explicit violence. i mean, i'm not surprised by that it LOTS of people, but in joni... it surprises me. the grouchy lady. ;-) - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:06:38 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: check out this article in Billboard about Richard X Heyman Joni content Very cool Rosalita!! You know I'm a fan...in a perfect world Heyman would have a new hit on the radio every month or so, like in the old days...he's a perfect power pop craftsman. Bob NP: Ryan, "You Will Always Be The Same" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:11:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: joni is crotchety! > who'd have thought joni would think that 'grabbing her crotch and dancing' is > that horrible? > I'd be more surprised if she didn't think that a 3 year old grabbing her crotch whilst dancing was horrible..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:16:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: joni is crotchety! **I'd be more surprised if she didn't think that a 3 year old grabbing her crotch whilst dancing was horrible.....** Then again, maybe the tyke just had to pee and we're all reading much more into it than is really there! :~) Bob NP: Bruce, "The Fuse" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:45:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Question > Good point...keep in mind that MOA is not a complete concert. She did play > some of the other C&S songs on the tour, for whatever reasons > (unfamiliarity, etc) they were not included on the record. Also, Joni & the > LA Express had done lots of shows in '74 prior to the C&S release, so they > probably had an established setlist that they were comfortable with. This > was Joni's first time out with a band, and some of those C&S compositions > were pretty complex. I used to think it was odd that there wasn't more than one C&S song on MoA. I also thought that maybe the complexities of the arrangements made them more difficult to perform live. C&S is fitted together like a Bach piece or like clockwork to my ears. It would be very difficult to reproduce that precision I suppose. But not impossible. As some of the live performances from that tour attest, Joni did perform other numbers from C&S and judging from some of the tape trees and the video from the BBC, they worked just fine in concert. I've come to the conclusion that either Joni or Asylum decided that it was pointless and maybe not wise from a marketing standpoint to put a lot of songs on a live album from a record that had just been released. As it is, MoA serves as a pretty good retrospective of her music up to C&S. If somebody had bought C&S as their first Joni album (as I did), fell completely in love with it (as I did) and then got MoA, wouldn't it follow that they would want to hear the earlier albums that those live versions came from (as I did)? Mark E in Seattle still waiting for Lama's *real* review of the Cowboy Junkies' concert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:16:25 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: joni mention in usa today Joseph, > if you're in tight with the Dawn Upshaw community, see what you can do! > :~) > I'll do what I can for your Covers Project, Bob. By the way, one member said that she heard Upshaw in one recital do "a Joni song about skating away forever". I don't know if classical recitalists' performance get recorded for posterity or if there are existing copies of the recital's transcripts, but I would really want to hear how Upshaw's ultra-sleek voice covered "River". Joseph np: Jean-Yves Thibaudet "Conversations with Bill Evans" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:23:35 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: NJC Re: joni is crotchety! Spoken like a true daddy of MALE chiren (children) Always and alternative insight Love Paz on 10/15/02 6:16 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **I'd be more surprised if she didn't think that a 3 year old grabbing her > crotch > whilst dancing was horrible.....** > > Then again, maybe the tyke just had to pee and we're all reading much more > into it than is really there! :~) > > Bob > > NP: Bruce, "The Fuse" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:29:57 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Bali (NJC) > Joseph Palis wrote: > > "Joseph > (was in Bali 2 days ago" > > Joseph! Are you OK?? > > Mary P., > concerned in Madison, WI. Kakki, Mags, Mary P. and the JMDL community: Thank you for the meaningful and kind words you offered my way. Yes, I am okay. I am now back in the Philippines. As I was telling Mags privately, the height of the festivities were incredible on the day I left Bali. Now in retrospect, my hair stands everytime I remember those great people I met there and who discussed topics as varied as the Asian Games, rock climbing and Joni. They may be among the casualties and I have this trauma of looking at the local dailies for fear that I might recognize their faces there. The tension in Manila is even greater not because we are breathing the same air as the Indons in Bali but because most of us are already on the edge because of the psychological terror brought about by the planned attack on Iraq. Thank you all very much for the prayerful support. This community of ours united by the love for Joni will definitely outlast whatever carnage may happen anywhere. peace and love, Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:33:22 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: recording update(njc) Rock on Dawg!!! Welcome to the inner circle of being locked in a studio in the creative process with other folk. I can relate and I love it. I am waiting here in the studio now for Jack to "Come Pick Me Up" and head off to Louis Armstrong International Airport to pick up the divine Ms. Christina arriving shortly from Denmark. We plan to introduce her around to the songwriters and players of New Orleans and produce some tracks over the next few months (hopefully she and Jack will develop some new material together from his pen). I am VERY excited to be/and honored with this task regardless of the outcome and hope that we will create something beautiful that we all will be proud of. Just spoke with her moments ago from Memphis where she is getting ready to board the plane to N.O. We will wisk her off into the New Orleans night and see Ravi at Snug Harbor and Ruben Blades (hopefully if we don't miss the show) at House Of Blues. Then when jet lag recedes we will start work. Victor I could not be happier for you and if you would like some overdubs from any of my constituents please give us a call. Hpe you have a ton of fun. Love Paz on 10/15/02 5:20 PM, Victor Johnson at waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: > I feel like I'm living in the studio! I've been working pretty much every > weekday for the last two weeks and things are really coming together. For > the past two days, we had this amazing drummer/percussionist, River > Guerguerian, laying down some drum tracks. Among many other things, he > played on and helped develop the soundtrack to "Crouching Tiger, Hidden > Dragon". He used to live in New York City but has been living here in > Asheville for awhile. In any case, there's going to be some very phat > percussion on this cd! Guitar and bass to come next... > > It's almost like living in a different world. The rest of the world just > becomes kind of secondary. Won't be able to wrap things up till February > but definately off to a very solid start. > > Victor > > NP: River Guerguerian "Trance"....an awesome collection of world > instruments and found sounds... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:42:25 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Bali (njc) Thanks for the concern, Debra. There were a lot of Al Qaeda sightings in my own country and some people who are not in the country where I am may dismiss it right away, but the psychological terror is with us in the Asian region, even if we go on our lives every day. MIndanao, the southernmost island in the Philippines, which is this close to Indonesia is Muslim-dominated. Our President, who is a great supporter of Bush cannot solve the problem in Mindanao and I don't think it needs solving anyway. Why do people (especially UN) always want to solve things their way? Some conflicts are best left un-intervened by the international community, in my opinion. And yes, Debra, I also was asking the same question you asked. Why bomb a country not known to support the US? Is this a way of sowing fear to people caught in the crossfire of the war they didn't have a hand in creating, or is this a relentless fight against anyone who is white. Both scenarios disgust me. Joseph in Manila > kakki wrote: >> >> Joseph, >> >> I'm so glad you are O.K. > > Me too. > >> I can't comprehend this. Paradise lost ;-( > > I don't understand this either. Isn't Indonesia a Muslim country? Why is > al Qaeda bombing people there? Or was it just that most of them were > foreigners and dancing? Is al Qaeda trying to establish Taliban-like > rule everywhere? That's nuts. 187 people gone. That makes me ill. I > can't grasp the thinking behind this. > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:00:54 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: joni is crotchety! a 3 year old what? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of colin Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:12 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: joni is crotchety! > who'd have thought joni would think that 'grabbing her crotch and dancing' is > that horrible? > I'd be more surprised if she didn't think that a 3 year old grabbing her crotch whilst dancing was horrible..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:07:25 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Seasonal Joni As a geographer by profession I am drawn to the unique interface of place and music ion JOni's writing. What I want to know are the places Joni went to when she was ariting songs for specific albums. Or were songs more like stream-of-consciousness transcriptions? I know of a lot of artists who were able to compose songs while waiting in the airports (i.e. Julia Fordham, Jim Chappell, Peter Kater, etc.). But the places where Joni was shen she wrote songs for specific albums are intriguing. And Lori, what a great memory you have! Let me see, what did I have for dinner..? :) Joseph obviously not a songwriter > Lori Fye wrote: >> Any other listers care to weigh in with their seasonal or >> environmental associations? > > In the order in which I became acquainted with them, and the first > place I "go" when I hear them: > > Hejira - summer in Biloxi, Mississippi (Winn-Dixie coldcuts) > DJRD - winter in Westby, Montana > MOA - autumn in Regina, Saskatchewan > FTR - winter in Plentywood, Montana > C&S - autumn in Fortuna, North Dakota > HOSL - summer, somewhere on an eastern Wyoming highway in a thunderstorm > Mingus - summer in North Canton, Ohio (21st birthday gift) > STAS - autumn in Phoenix, Arizona > Clouds - autumn in Phoenix > LOTC - winter in Goodyear, Arizona > Blue - summer in Phoenix > S&L - winter in Colorado Springs, Colorado > WTRF - autumn in Voorhees, New Jersey > DED - spring in Bremerhaven and Basdahl, (West) Germany > CMIAR - spring in San Antonio, Texas > NRH - autumn in Galveston, Texas > TI - winter in San Antonio > TTT - autumn in San Antonio > BSN - winter in Mount Vernon, Virginia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:44:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: hold the phone! of course i know that a 3 year old has no business watching mtv!...i'm not saying she is hanging out with the older siblings...i am saying she might be friends with someone who has an older sibling...who watches mtv let me try to say this again...joni's quote did not say that her granddaughter was watching mtv, but that she was being influenced by it...however, everyone jumped to the conclusion that this meant the granddaughter was watching mtv...i did not come to that conclusion at all... i thought perhaps the granddaughter has a friend & that friend has older siblings & those older siblings watch mtv (not the younger sibling & not the granddaughter)...those older siblings then imitate the mtv stuff...the younger sibling who has NOT watched the mtv but who has watched their older sibling, learns these crotch moves...this younger sibling then does the crotch move when playing with the granddaughter & that is how the granddaughter learns the stuff....phew.. i was a very protective parent (no tv) but found that my son picked up stuff in this way all the time...from friends who had older siblings... me **she might be hanging out with kids whose older siblings watch MTV & do the crotch grab...correct me if i am wrong but this statement led someone here to assume that the child's mother was lame for letting her watch mtv? whoa...big leaps of assumptions going on here!** bob Kate, the girl is THREE! What if she were hanging out with "older siblings" who were watching a porno movie? I'm not singling out Kilauren, I'm saying that a 3-year-old has no business watching MTV, and if she is, then the parents are not doing their job, whether Daisy's sitting on her lap watching it or whether Kilauren has turned her over to whoever to babysit. It's bad parenting in my book (but don't get me wrong, it's very common parenting). Where's Julie Z. Webb when you need her? ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:16:17 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Bali (njc) Hi Joseph, > Mindanao, the southernmost island in the Philippines, which is this close > to Indonesia is Muslim-dominated. Our President, who is a great supporter > of Bush cannot solve the problem in Mindanao and I don't think it needs > solving anyway. I recently met an American man who travels to the Philippines constantly and was telling me how beautiful and SAFE the country was for the most part. He said your government has a good handle on the terrorist problems there. > Why do people (especially UN) always want to solve things their way? Some conflicts are best left un-intervened >by the international community, in my opinion. I couldn't agree with you more. I get a little freaked out when people start talking like my country no longer has any sovereignty and should obey all orders from the U.N.! Geez, this is the body who just made Mohammar Gaddafi the head of the human rights whatever. (No offense to the jmdlers here who work for the U.N.) > Why bomb a country not known to support the US? Is this a way of sowing fear to > people caught in the crossfire of the war they didn't have a hand in > creating, or is this a relentless fight against anyone who is white. Both > scenarios disgust me. If I may ask a question (and not to be argumentative or direct this at you, Joseph) why must it be assumed that the terrorists are only after the U.S. or those who support the U.S.? I know that is the propaganda fashionable among those who like to be anti-U.S., (not you Joseph) but these groups of terrorists have been killing and terrorizing many other groups of people mostly unrelated to the U.S. in the world for many years and continue to do so. Jews in Israel and Europe, Christians in East Timor and Lebanon and Somalia, Russians in Chechen, Serbs in Bosnia/Croatia, Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, Hindus in India, Anwar Sadat in Egypt, Kurds in Iraq, rival mid-east groups and the list goes on and on. I just flip that some in the world suddenly want to conveniently forget many years of incidents against people other than Americans or their "supporters." As long as people look away from the truth, whether deliberately or because they do not know other information, any hope for a solution will be that much further away. Not that I have a solution, but as with any problem, one must look at all the sides of it, honestly, before any real hope for change can happen. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:46:51 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: joni mention in usa today njc on the other hand, i would NOT. wallyK, who finds dawn upshaw most annoying. - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph Enviado el: Martes, 15 de Octubre de 2002 11:16 p.m. Para: SCJoniGuy@aol.com CC: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: joni mention in usa today Joseph, > if you're in tight with the Dawn Upshaw community, see what you can do! > :~) > I'll do what I can for your Covers Project, Bob. By the way, one member said that she heard Upshaw in one recital do "a Joni song about skating away forever". I don't know if classical recitalists' performance get recorded for posterity or if there are existing copies of the recital's transcripts, but I would really want to hear how Upshaw's ultra-sleek voice covered "River". Joseph np: Jean-Yves Thibaudet "Conversations with Bill Evans" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:31:15 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Re: joni is crotchety! Not to make light of it all but this was my first reaction, too! > > Then again, maybe the tyke just had to pee and we're all reading much more > > into it than is really there! :~) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:52:56 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: was Joni on the music biz...now pop music history (njc) Wise Brenda writes: << Pop music is what it is and has been for a long time. >> Dear Brenda, At "A Moment Like This," "You Light Up My Life!" Great point! I can't help but wonder who Debbie Boone and Kelly Clarkson say influenced their musical directions, besides Jesus Christ and the almighty dollar. These days, practically everything we Americans see, hear, taste, smell or touch is focus-grouped to death, so what we end up consuming, if we're not very careful, is a relentless diet of dreck by committee. I salute Joni for being a constant voice when it comes to respect for artists. I just wish she's say she liked someone else once in a while. She's too alive for all her heroes to be dead. Surely she's heard someone else she has enjoyed in the last few years other than Dylan. By God I know I have! My guess is that Joni says these things, but that she's really not all that much like the way she comes across in interviews like this. (The people on this list who have written about meeting her always have wonderful stories to tell.) It's just that that is the way the media want Joni to be -- the bitter boomer former folkie. Let's face it, that is the way the media will continue to position and portray Joni until "Travelogue" is a hit. Then she will once again go through the whole star maker thing she's been through before and has written about so eloquently. But this time she will be older and wiser -- and ready -- and she will have won the adoration of millions of more people throughout the world. And maybe this time, with all her new-found respect . . . . . . when Joni says . . . . . . once again . . . . . . thirty years later . . . . . . "THE MUSIC BUSINESS SUCKS!!!" . . . someone will listen to her. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:54:50 EDT From: Chihuahua50@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on the music biz In a message dated 10/15/02 11:09:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Emily Gray Tedrowe writes: > > From: Emily Gray Tedrowe > Subject: Joni on the music biz > > hi everyone. > > i have to say, i find joni's ranting and raving about the "cesspool" music > industry so tired. Emily, I have to agree with you. It's almost a given when you open up a magazine interview of Joni that you will find this, by now, very familiar rant. I kind of see this subject of the music industry as not worthy of mention. It's a given at this point in time, isn't it? It's the music BUSINESS. The point has been made. "Let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness-" At the same time, I can see how it might be very hard for Joni to let go of the way things were when she first started out. The music business was different in the 60s and early 70s. "I'm all complaints...." I just finished reading the Rolling Stone "Women in Rock Issue" and it was very interesting. Well worth the few bucks if you have the time and the inclination. I have to say I was kind of shocked that a few of these women managed to get any kind of record made at all. One of them, when asked if she was feminist, didn't even know what the word meant. "And you let the wicked prosper, You let their children frisk like deer..." One of the artists said there are two kinds of people who go into the music business. Those who want to make art and those who want to make money and get famous. Those who want to be artists and those who want to be entertainers. Of course nothing is ever that simple or that black and white. There is some desire on the part of artists to make money and be famous. And there is some desire on the part of people seeking fame and fortune to make art and be respected. Some of the women had very insightful, intelligent things to say. And some of them didn't. It's the music business. Some will make money and some will make art. Some will be around next year, and most of them won't. Grace Slick had some interesting things to say about how in the old days artists just put on whatever was clean and got on stage. Now everything is studied and choreographed and planned and styled down to the last piece of fringe. But I do wish Joni would just let the subject of the music business drop. She has a kind of success that most musicians can only dream about. She comes across as bitter. She comes across as envious. And it makes me sad, because I'd like to see her, especially at this point in her life, appreciate her amazing success as an artist, rather than complain about the lack of this or that. In spite of everything she says in interviews, I think there is an important part of Joni that has always wanted that big commercial success. That kind of love/adoration/fame/success is a powerful drug. I think that once someone has experienced that degree of fame, like Joni did in the 70s, it must be very hard to live without. "Once I as blessed; I was awaited like the rain, Like eyes for the blind, like feet for the lame. Kings heard my words, and they sought out my company. But now the janitors of Shadowland flick their brooms at me...." all quotes from: The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) And here I sit, chicken scratching, once again writing about the singer instead of the song. Frank ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #427 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)