From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #426 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 15 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 426 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: October 15 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #425 - comment on the interview, new label, etc. [] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #425 - BSN in Life as a House [BRYAN8847@aol.com] She's at it again - And a new label ["Kate Bennett" ] a real reason to feel so sad njc [vince ] One more thing Joni needs..... [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: a real reason to feel sad 2.0 njc [vince ] Re: Bali (njc) [colin ] RE: oct 14!!!! njc [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] njc The Merry Minuet [vince ] Joni, Tom Petty and the Music Business [Merk54@aol.com] Bali, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Joni ashamed to be in the music biz ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Miles of Aisles Question [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #424 - She's at it again - And a new label [Bob.Mu] RE: Miles of Aisles Question [LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk] RE: Miles of Aisles Question [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: crotch-grabbing grandchildren - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Miles of Aisles Question [Mags N Brei ] Re: vocal range -Joan Baez NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Miles of Aisles Question - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Joni on the music biz [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: Bali, njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Joni in Rolling Stone Magazine [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Re: Seasonal Joni ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Seasonal Joni [Mags N Brei ] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) [Mags N Brei ] Re: Thinking of Lori (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Reuters message boards reactions [Penny ] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] NJC Re: Reuters message boards reactions [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:06:39 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 15 On October 15 the following items were published: 1992: "Joni Mitchell subject of music tribute" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/921015ssp.cfm 1997: "Rocking Gracefully into the Golden Years" - Newhouse News Service (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/971015nns.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:23:58 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #425 - comment on the interview, new label, etc. "I hope it all goes down the crapper." This is a good example of an article making the subject seem a bit more negative than she really was. The interviewer asked JM how she felt about some people's recent comments that "the industry is going down the crapper," or something like that. Joni then answered using the same unsavory language. Anyway, it is overall a very scathing little interview. See the entire interview on rollingstone.com (click on the Women in Rock feature and then Joni's link). Interesting that a new deal with the new label was signed, apparently, at the last minute, just before the new CD release. I guess the artist decided this will not be the swan song and wanted to sign on for multiple releases (my hunch is a total of three on the new contract) and that the powers-that-be at Warner/AOL nudged (or forced) her over to the more boutiquish, less commercial Nonesuch label (which has an impressive lineup of artists but is decidedly less mainstream than Reprise). I suppose the facts around all this will come to light soon enough (if it matters; I am curious at least). Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:26:17 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #425 - BSN in Life as a House In a message dated 10/15/02 12:04:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I watched a movie last night with Kevin Kline called Life Is A House and > REALLY enjoyed it for a lot of reasons. In the movie (don't know if this > was > posted before) there was a dance sequence to Joni's Bothe Sides Now. What > is > really strange is that it was a orchestra version but did not sound exactly > like the BSN album release. Has anyone else seen this and noticed the > difference?? I want a copy of this version as it was really cool and very > sparse in it's production. > I don't think it was a different recording. Just an edited one...skipping a verse or two and making it sound like a different version. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:41:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: She's at it again - And a new label "I hope it all goes down the crapper. I would never take another deal in the record business, which means I may not record again, or I have to figure out a way to sell over the Net or do something else. But I'll be damned if I'll line their pockets." lol...you go girl...the website is waiting for you! make your own cds! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:42:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: vocal range >One more thing, Judy Collins once stated that dairy products were bad for singers!?!?< it causes mucus which gunks everything up... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:27:47 -0400 From: vince Subject: a real reason to feel so sad njc patrick leader wrote: > but i feel sad anyway. just read that this happened a couple of days ago... > > --- > Actress Teresa Graves, who starred as a sassy undercover cop in the 1970s > television police drama "Get Christie Love!", died Thursday in a fire at her > home. She was 54. > --- A human being died, someone who had brought you a good measure of joy. What would be stupid shit is not caring, not having a reaction. You don't have to know someone to mourn, and mourning is not less worthy because the one you grieve for was not a superstar but merely someone who shone for a small while. Hell, most of us never shine at all. Teresa Graves brought joy to others and that makes her passing significant. May you be comforted, Patrick. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:31:05 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: One more thing Joni needs..... .....is Faith Hill's goddamned fucking hype machine. Holy crap, I expect to open my medicine cabinet one morning and be greeted by FAITH HILL THIS AND FAITH HILL THAT. It is relentless. Bryan A Little Cranky, Too ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:35:16 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: a real reason to feel sad 2.0 njc With people being blown up in Bali, a mad sniper shooting people in DC, the imminence of war, we get so damned overwhelmed. In all of the horror, one person dies who you associate with light, life, a great smile, and a happy attitude and it hits you right in the gut. This you can focus on, because you remember the smile in the midst of all the incomprehensible death everywhere else. Sorry for two posts on the same subject. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:21:26 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Bali (njc) dsk wrote: > colin wrote: > > > > > I don't understand this either. Isn't Indonesia a Muslim country? > > > > 95% of Bali is Hindu. > > This is in today's NYTimes: > > "In recent weeks, top Indonesian officials who had denied > the problem in the past had begun to concede that the > world's most-populous Muslim nation faces a terrorist > threat. Saturday's attack, in which many of the victims > were foreign holidaymakers, seems to mark a turning point." > Yes, Indonesia is as described above but it has islands and Bali is mostly Hindu. I would have thought the target was the Westerners. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:13:36 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: oct 14!!!! njc WOOHOO Happy Birthday Maggie!!!! Have a great day les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:32:19 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc The Merry Minuet written in 1958 and made popular mostly by the Kingston Trio and still, sadly, true today There are days in my life when everything is dreary I grow pessimistic, sad and world weary. But when I'm tearful and fearfully upset I always sing this merry little minuet: They're rioting in Africa They're starving in Spain There's hurricanes in Florida And Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering With unhappy souls The French hate the Germans, The Germans hate the Poles Italians hate Yugoslavs South Africans hate the Dutch And I don't like anybody very much But we can be grateful And thankful and proud That man's been endowed With a mushroom shaped cloud And we know for certain That some happy day Someone will set the spark off And we will all be blown away They're rioting in Africa There's strife in Iran What nature doesn't do to us Will be done by our fellow man. http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiRIOTAFR.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:43:24 -0400 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Joni, Tom Petty and the Music Business I haven't had a chance to listen to the new Tom Petty album yet, but based upon what I've read, it is Tom bashing the music business. A couple of the articles I've read praised Tom for fearlessly taking on the music industry. I find it interesting that when others try this, they come across as some sort of heros (Pearl Jam vs. Ticketmaster also comes to mind), but when Joni does it, they portray her as some cranky old bitch, biting the hand that feeds her. But I guess that's the way they've always treated her. She dappled in jazz, and they thought she was crazy. Later on, Sting tried the same thing, and he's a 'genius'. She used African drummers on the Jungle Line, and people think she's gone wacky. Paul Simon used African musicians years later, and he's made the album of the year. Etc. Etc. I guess I'd be a little cranky, too. Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:43:46 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Bali, njc Seems to me the mere presence of westerners in Muslim countries is now being interpreted as some form of aggression by extremist Muslims (whether Al Quaeda or not). Same thing happened in Egypt a few years ago when tourists were shot. Not only is this disregard for human life, but also for the local economy which often strongly relies on tourism. Was actually contemplating going to Bali or Egypt next year, but we chose the North Pole instead: statistically fewer risk of running into an extremist group over there. Although one never knows. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:49:07 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni ashamed to be in the music biz As Zappa sang (Roxy 78?): "I have seen hell. I was under contract at Warner Bros for 10 years". Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 7:53:13 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: oct 14!!!! njc A fabulous happy birthday to Maggie! And Roberto as well! Victor, recording lots of drums - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:07:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Question <> Court & Spark was April '74. MOA was November '74 <> Good point...keep in mind that MOA is not a complete concert. She did play some of the other C&S songs on the tour, for whatever reasons (unfamiliarity, etc) they were not included on the record. Also, Joni & the LA Express had done lots of shows in '74 prior to the C&S release, so they probably had an established setlist that they were comfortable with. This was Joni's first time out with a band, and some of those C&S compositions were pretty complex. I don't know if this is all of the story, I'm just kinda thinking out loud, and of course would be interested in what others have to say. <> Me too...it is very tough to listen with fresh ears to a song that is deeply engrained in your head as sounding a certain way. There's that 'resistance to change' factor, which is especially heightened when we're talking about something as "sacred" as Joni's music. Bob NP: David Cassidy, "Cherish" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:25:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #424 - She's at it again - And a new label <> Thanks for sharing this article, Bryan...I take it as a VERY GOOD sign, and have said that it's something that Joni should have done a long time ago. Here's hoping that her marketing strategies change for the better! Also encouraged that it sounds like there's much more to come from her...dare I say it? New songs! There - I said it! ;~) <> Can't blame MTV for this...put the blame on incompetent parenting. MTV was off limits to my son until he was 13 or so. It IS possible to give kids limits and tell them no. And more than possible, it's necessary. But it does require effort! The toughest thing is to talk to your kid's friend's parents to find out what their (and potentially your) child is exposed to. The most amazing thing I found out was how many parents had no problem allowing their kids to watch R-rated videos at 7 or 8 years of age. A 3-year-old watching MTV? Inexcusable. Bob NP: Art Garfunkel, "Scissors Cut" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:41:46 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: Miles of Aisles Question <> MOA was the first Joni album i listened to...way back when....and as best as memory can serve, i played it all the time, but all the time. i just wouldn't suffer to listen to anything else. i think too that i was doing some serious over-writing of black sabbath and yes who, up til receiving a copy of MOA, were hard coded into the Les psyche at that time. Consequently, the records Joni produced up to this time were among the last i ended up buying and i think to this day, i don't know the Blue version of Blue that well!! What kinda heresy is that???? The MOA versions of all the songs on this compilation have become favourites of mine. Except Woodstock which is complete pants compared to the original which is just spectacular - of course I didn't realise just how pants-like it was until i bought LOTC. However, Joni's version of ACOY on Both Sides Now is wonderful to me and i expect to be similarly 'taken' with some of what Joni does on Travelogue. I don't expect to like them all though. I'm going to have the toughest job with Hejira which for me is an almost holy relic. I'll want to like it, but if it ain't right it ain't eva gonna get listened to again.. I think the most prevalant fear regarding Travelogue is the chance that the versions therein will be ponderous and maudlin. I certainly feel that the only way this project is going to work is if, as happened on BSN, the songs are taken apart and rearranged. As with all such surgery, it isn't going to suit everyone. After all just take the example of other people's version of the JM canon, some people just make a complete arse of their versions. I mean some people just wont be helped. And isn't always down to their ability to sing - god forbid that should be called into question. But some arrangers really need to be......ok enough. Les (london, very much in trepidation over Travelogue and sensitive to the impression created, to wit "who rattled his cage?!" :-)) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:48:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Miles of Aisles Question <> LOL, Les...and God love 'em for it! I enjoy the whole 'arse' collection, which I suppose makes me an "arse-whole". Just putting that out there before Smurf beats me to it! :~) Bob NP: Lucinda Williams, "Essence" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:20:35 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: crotch-grabbing grandchildren - njc Muller writes: << Can't blame MTV for this...put the blame on incompetent parenting. >> I don't know if this child's father is involved with raising her, but her mother does sound a "Little Lame." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:26:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Question Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: Good point...keep in mind that MOA is not a complete concert. She did play some of the other C&S songs on the tour, for whatever reasons (unfamiliarity, etc) they were not included on the record. Also, Joni & the LA Express had done lots of shows in '74 prior to the C&S release, so they probably had an established setlist that they were comfortable with. This was Joni's first time out with a band, and some of those C&S compositions were pretty complex. I don't know if this is all of the story, I'm just kinda thinking out loud, and of course would be interested in what others have to say. Me too...it is very tough to listen with fresh ears to a song that is deeply engrained in your head as sounding a certain way. There's that 'resistance to change' factor, which is especially heightened when we're talking about something as "sacred" as Joni's music. and now me: First of all , I would like to thank Bob, Jack and Les for helping me decide what Joni to listen to next...lol....ah , the power of suggestion. Here's how I listen to Miles of Aisles ... much of the time I start it at Cactus Tree ... I love the mood /emotions that song evokes in me and it rolls across me in waves from there. I dont know why Joni decided not to do more of Court and Spark on that tour, however, as you say Bob, they had a line up all ready and polished so it makes sense to go with that. As for Travelogue...as I said to someone off list, I feel like a Joni groupie when I talk about the demos we heard last October at the Hommage (wow, a whole year ago!) Anyway....if the CD is ANYTHING like her demos....let me tell you again dear ones...you are in for a treat. (I sound like a broken record). I like that Joni has the chutzpah to re record earlier work. She's playing with familiar territory and yet she creates new moods, new ideas , new interpretations, new ways of saying the same thing... I loved it more than my words can say. I feel okay about it and look so forward. I feel that if this is what she wants to do, that's fine with me. She was so excited while giving us a taste! She is playing with her own notes/music/ and tailoring her present voice around that. I do know what you mean Bob, about having a certain version burned in your head. and yet, Ive never been one to need a cover to sound exactly the same as that one in my head. I look forward to hearing the project with open ears and an open heart. (Not suggesting that you are not.) ..I know that I am still reeling from the experience in Toronto last year . Because Joni's music is so sacred to me (nice way to put it Bob), I think that's why in part, it was so exciting to hear new interpretations. I encourage others who were there to chime in and express their view/opinion too. Mags...listening to Miles of Ailes with headphones on.... a whole new world..the only way i get to really hear lyrics in a deep way anymore. np: Woman of Heart and Mind oh yea. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:30:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: vocal range -Joan Baez NJC I recall Joan saying that when she approached the big M (menopause) she had to take voice lessons and learn to sing all over again because of the changes that were taking place. A frightening thought for a singer - but she still sounds great. Jenny - --- William Chavez wrote: > A severe drop in vocal range is definitely apparent > with Joan Baez and I > don't think she ever smoked. At least I don't think > I've ever seen her with > a cig in her hand(on stage or on photographs). I > must say that I do not bash > smokers but it can alter a singers vocal quality in > an unpredictable manner. > Sometimes good and sometimes not so good. I do love > Joni's voice on > Turbulent Indigos and there is not a note in there > that doesn't sound > "smokie". She is also one of the very few women that > actually looks cool on > photographs with a cig in her hand. The vast > majority of women do NOT! > Rickie Lee's 1st album cover came close but I don't > think so. I think it > came very close to being "right on" because the > cover is so "Jonish". The > rest of RLJ album is a different story. You guys > were discusing her album a > few days back and I agree with most of the positive > comments. WOW, what an > album! There are a few songs on there that not even > Joni could improve. RLJ > has such an infectious "spunk". "Coolsville" is one > of my favorites on > there. > Will > One more thing, Judy Collins once stated that dairy > products were bad for > singers!?!? I don't think adults should be drinking > milk period but why > singers? Professional vocalist out there?? Know the > answer? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:30:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Question - njc Muller writes: << I enjoy the whole 'arse' collection, which I suppose makes me an "arse-whole". Just putting that out there before Smurf beats me to it! >> Asshole! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:17:00 -0400 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: Joni on the music biz hi everyone. i have to say, i find joni's ranting and raving about the "cesspool" music industry so tired. it makes me think she doesn't get out much anymore-- what the heck kind of music does she play for herself these days? only her own stuff, dylan's, and...??? that's pretty depressing. why has no one of her crowd found a way to introduce her to all the passionate, artistic, visionary musicians that are recording these days? duh, everyone knows that britney et al. are nothing more than pop guilty pleasures (at best)--it seems so beneath joni to take that on-- such a straw man for her (usually) insightful thinking. and, frankly, it really bugs me when she whines about money, not wanting to "line their pockets," complaining about no royalties, etc. that also makes me think she is losing touch with people who might actually want to buy her music. i realize that she is not insanely wealthy--but is that what she is about now? how confusing! in my opinion, she should remember what it was like to hang out with the waitresses all wearing black diamond earrings, talking about zombies and singapore slings. enough of this "david geffen has more money than i do" crap. i've always found joni's anger refreshing and vital--but this bitterness strikes me as misdirected and irrelevant. wow, sorry for the out-of-nowhere bad mood! - -- emily, in chilly chicago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:33:37 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Bali, njc Laurent wrote: "Seems to me the mere presence of westerners in Muslim countries is now being interpreted as some form of aggression by extremist Muslims (whether Al Quaeda or not). Same thing happened in Egypt a few years ago when tourists were shot." Undoubtedly true. The presence of westerners - in a dance club as in bali - would be a spread of a different culture, which is what is objectionable to those who object. These people really seem intent on unleashing a holy war in which their apocalyptic visions may be fulfilled, as they see it, and may God spare us from religious fanatics of any kind. Those are the most dangerous kind, because they disregard human life thinking they have a superior calling from God. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:38:34 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone Magazine [NJC] I never know what to do with the 'NJC' thing... is this an 'NJC'? Anyway...it may have already been posted on here.... from yesterday. Richard in San Francisco n.p. Grateful Dead "Sugaree" - --- Joni Mitchell 'Ashamed' to Be in Music Business Reuters Oct 14 2002 7:53PM LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Hell hath no fury like Joni Mitchell on the subject of the music industry. The veteran singer/songwriter, on the promotional trail for a new album, says she is "ashamed" to be part of the music business and may stop recording. "I just think it's a cesspool," the 58-year-old folk-rock icon said in the latest issue of Rolling Stone magazine. "I hope it all goes down the crapper. I would never take another deal in the record business, which means I may not record again, or I have to figure out a way to sell over the Net or do something else. But I'll be damned if I'll line their pockets." Oddly, Mitchell just signed a new deal with Nonesuch Records, which will release her new album, "Travelogue" in November. Mitchell was previously based at Reprise Records where her last few albums sold poorly but won several Grammy Awards. Both labels are units of AOL Time Warner Inc . Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network. "It's tragic what MTV has done to the world," opined Mitchell, who was voted the fifth greatest woman in rock 'n' roll by MTV's sister channel VH1. Both networks are owned by Viacom Inc . Once described by her friend David Crosby as being "about as humble as Mussolini," Mitchell has previously described contemporary music as "appallingly sick ... boring chord movement and bad acting." In holding up Bob Dylan and herself as the standard for songwriting, she has written off devotees like Sting, Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow. Mitchell has also previously savaged her former label boss David Geffen for not paying her any royalties, although he has countered that her albums never sold enough copies to cover the advance payments that she received from him. Born Roberta Joan Anderson in Canada, Mitchell has established herself as one of the most respected artists of her generation. Her eclectic career spans 35 years and includes such seminal albums as 1971's autobiographical "Blue" and the 1974 jazz-pop excursion "Court and Spark." She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1997. 10/14/02 19:51 ET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:05:39 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Thinking of Lori (NJC) I'm running behind the times and am just catching up on several days' worth of email. Kate, thank you for your kind words. > Lori, adding my thoughts to all who have written, in hopes that this > guy will be caught soon & you can feel safer...you are very > courageous...stay safe... I'm not sure how courageous I am, although I suppose we're all beginning to feel somewhat brave just going to the store these days. Sunday night I found myself in the grocery store parking lot, feeling very vulnerable as I walked to the car. And last night's shooting occurred at the Home Depot where Mary (who works in Falls Church, VA) often shops at lunch. It's WAY too close to home now. All we can hope for, besides his capture, is that this crazy man is like lightening, rarely striking the same place twice. I don't know if that's consolation as we return to shop at the usual gas stations and stores, or not ... Has anyone heard about a connection between these shootings and a video game? A game which, at the highest level, allows the player to be "God" and shoot at people who cannot shoot back? One shot per victim. Anyone know of this? Thanks, everyone - and stay safe yourselves! Love, Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:48:54 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Seasonal Joni > Any other listers care to weigh in with their seasonal or > environmental associations? In the order in which I became acquainted with them, and the first place I "go" when I hear them: Hejira - summer in Biloxi, Mississippi (Winn-Dixie coldcuts) DJRD - winter in Westby, Montana MOA - autumn in Regina, Saskatchewan FTR - winter in Plentywood, Montana C&S - autumn in Fortuna, North Dakota HOSL - summer, somewhere on an eastern Wyoming highway in a thunderstorm Mingus - summer in North Canton, Ohio (21st birthday gift) STAS - autumn in Phoenix, Arizona Clouds - autumn in Phoenix LOTC - winter in Goodyear, Arizona Blue - summer in Phoenix S&L - winter in Colorado Springs, Colorado WTRF - autumn in Voorhees, New Jersey DED - spring in Bremerhaven and Basdahl, (West) Germany CMIAR - spring in San Antonio, Texas NRH - autumn in Galveston, Texas TI - winter in San Antonio TTT - autumn in San Antonio BSN - winter in Mount Vernon, Virginia Lori, noticing her list is something of a travelogue, in Maryland ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Seasonal Joni Lori Fye wrote: > Any other listers care to weigh in with their seasonal or > environmental associations? In the order in which I became acquainted with them, and the first place I "go" when I hear them: Hejira - summer in Biloxi, Mississippi (Winn-Dixie coldcuts) DJRD - winter in Westby, Montana MOA - autumn in Regina, Saskatchewan FTR - winter in Plentywood, Montana C&S - autumn in Fortuna, North Dakota HOSL - summer, somewhere on an eastern Wyoming highway in a thunderstorm Mingus - summer in North Canton, Ohio (21st birthday gift) STAS - autumn in Phoenix, Arizona Clouds - autumn in Phoenix LOTC - winter in Goodyear, Arizona Blue - summer in Phoenix S&L - winter in Colorado Springs, Colorado WTRF - autumn in Voorhees, New Jersey DED - spring in Bremerhaven and Basdahl, (West) Germany CMIAR - spring in San Antonio, Texas NRH - autumn in Galveston, Texas TI - winter in San Antonio TTT - autumn in San Antonio BSN - winter in Mount Vernon, Virginia Lori, noticing her list is something of a travelogue, in Maryland wow Loir. .. what a memory you have! And that IS a travelogue!! The two Joni albums (and they were albums at the time) that stick out for me are more about my "place" in time , than place i was living. fine line between them. No surprise here at all because Ive talked about them openly on the list many times. Blue and Court and Spark were my sanity saving as anything during the time I lived in an attic apartment awaiting the birth of my first born child. (my own little green). I didnt know that Joni had lost a child to adoption at that time, I just remember feeling so much comfort in her words, oh how i felt joy as well as sorrow in anticipation. All that mixed in, mixed up. The sheer and sparkling joy of being pregnant, the butterflies in my tumm excitement over having that *first* child..sorrow for all of the ritual things that could have/would have/should have been in place for me however, they were not. It's all history now, all behind me..okay if that's true, then why does little green keep shining through my window when i least expect him to? *big smiles* . Anyway, I especially loved River as well, for obvious reasons, and my heart would break especially when she sings of wanting that river to sail away on. oh the agony in her soul. I think of spring when i think of Court and Spark, and happier times, times when i felt on the brink of life because that's when I heard it first, then it became the twin sister to Blue later on in that year and into the next spring when little green flew away. Mags ~ You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:39:56 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) oh, this is awful lori...& to think it could be related to a video game (& yes this sounds like it could be) is really sicko... lori asked >>Has anyone heard about a connection between these shootings and a video game? A game which, at the highest level, allows the player to be "God" and shoot at people who cannot shoot back? One shot per victim. Anyone know of this?<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:54:42 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) <> Just about every video game out there could be connected. My son mostly likes the sports games, but he does have some of these shoot-em-ups as well. They ALL have the same premise; you start out at a minimal level with some wimpy weapon, and every time you blow crap up and kill creatures/aliens/bad guys whatever, you get points and eventually get to the next level with better weapons, more health, power etc. and you just keep blowing up stuff and killing things. While I don't condone them, I will say that he typically tires of them, and by the same token I give him subtle hints sometimes that he needs to do other things. So it's an interesting debate - do these games provide an outlet for people (not just kids...believe me, many players are adults), or do they desensitize people to violence? I'm typically of the opinion that video games, heavy metal, etc. can be catalysts but are seldom the motivation for someone to resort to evil stuff like this sniper. Bob NP: We The People, "When I Arrive" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:28:20 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) while i don't think these games (& other forms of media) are the motivation behind such acts, i do believe (& i think they've done studies to show this) that violent entertainment does indeed desensitize kids to violence...maybe there is some element of being a catalyst for someone who is obviously very disturbed to begin with...who knows, i just hope this sniper is stopped...while i'm on the soapbox, i do think the media needs to be more responsible in not giving these sick people so much airtime...that itself is sick & uneccessary, imo... cover bob wrote >I'm typically of the opinion that video games, heavy metal, etc. can be catalysts but are seldom the motivation for someone to resort to evil stuff like this sniper.< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:46:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) Kate Bennett wrote: that violent entertainment does indeed desensitize kids to violence...cover Ive seen this in my own family Kate..it is amazing what my daughter and her birth brother can watch and it doesnt seem to phase them, and meanwhile, Im running to the bathroom to... blick!!! mags. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:18:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Thinking of Lori (NJC) Mags writes: << Ive seen this in my own family Kate..it is amazing what my daughter and her birth brother can watch and it doesnt seem to phase them, and meanwhile, Im running to the bathroom to... blick!!! >> Move over, Mags . . . I'm right behind you! The worst *entertainment* violence (as opposed to the home-grown variety) I remember as a child was the scene in "Frankenstein" where the monster (in black and white, no gory red blood shots) carried the limp body of the little girl he had killed. That scene used to give me nightmares that are to this day among the worst I ever had. And the film doesn't even show the monster killing the child! I can't imagine how people sleep with some of the images from movies from the last 30 years in their heads. But then, I know I am an extreme case because it's not just violence that makes me ill, it's also TV doctor shows! I can't stand the sight of blood. Seems to me that as the violence gets turned up in entertainment, the reaction to real violence in the world goes down. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:42:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Subject: Reuters message boards reactions Hi y'all! Thanks Les, for posting the current RS article on the website and Brian(?, I've got a bad memory and just resubbed to the list so it's harder for me to look-up who sent it in :), for posting the Reuters release he sent in last night. Anyway, if you have a disire to read more Joni content and some of the reactions to last night's Reuters article, the message boards there are jumping. Here's the link and one example. The pro/con have been pretty evenly split from what I've read there so far. Peace, Penny http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=768&e=3&cid=769&u=/nm/20021014/music_nm/leisure_mitchell_dc Re: I always thought she was overrated by: PapiBear (35/M/United States of America) 10/15/02 04:18 am Msg: 38 of 237 2 recommendations >>it takes a quite a bit of time (and work) to figure her work out. most people don't have the patience or brain capacity... << You left out "the desire". Most people would prefer to enjoy music, even complex, thoughtful music, rather than take a long time and work to "figure it out". Most folks don't consider music to be a math problem or a philosophical dissertation. They just want to hear a good tune and tap their toes, or be moved by the emotions of a song. Not sent into therapy about it. Now don't get me wrong; I can enjoy deep, rich, thoughtful music that lasts for generations, but I think to arbitrarily dismiss every songwriter besides herself and Bob Dylan is, well, myopic and selfish. And frankly, I'm not really interested in either hearing the music of or providing financial support to an artist so enamored with herself that she sees fit to be dismissive of people who admire her work. I won't deny her musical talent; that's a given. But as a person, I don't think I'd want to sit next to her on a bus or share a lunch with her. If she can't be grateful for the attention and adulation and respect she DOES have from millions, well, then she's more blind than Stevie Wonder. By the way, she didn't seem to throw a tizzy when Janet Jackson sampled her music in a dance song a couple years ago. If I'm not mistaken, Janet Jackson is one of those people who've assisted MTV and the rest of the music industry become a "pornographic cesspool". I believe Janet's brother is well known for his crotch-grabbing, in fact. Gee, funny how money tends to turn people into incredible hypocrites, huh? Posted as a reply to: Msg 18 by wsidechris Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:53:37 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) "Cover Bob" (I like that!) wrote: > Just about every video game out there could be connected. > They ALL have the same premise; you start out at a minimal level with > some wimpy weapon, and every time you blow crap up and kill > creatures/aliens/bad guys whatever, you get points and eventually get > to the next level with better weapons, more health, power etc. and > you just keep blowing up stuff and killing things. From what I've heard and have been able to find online, the sniper situation is possibly connected to a specific game called "Counterstrike." However, you're right Bob. There are probably a thousand similar games, and many of them have "God mode" which - after inputting some code easily obtained on the 'net - allows the player to play "forever" with maximum power. The challenge and fun of that mode escapes me. Kate wrote: > while i'm on the soapbox, i do think the media needs to be more > responsible in not giving these sick people so much airtime...that > itself is sick & uneccessary, imo... It's definitely sick, and furthermore, it's stupid. This morning I was listening to a "breaking" press conference, and each of the reporters asked a barely different version of the SAME question of the law enforcement officer holding the conference. He must have answered 10 times that he and his dept were not going to release the requested information, yet the reporters continued, wasting everyone's time. Disgusted, I finally turned off the radio. First let's catch the sniper(s). Then we can talk about it and write books about it and make a nice little TV movie. I usually take the side of media rights, but what's going on now is really over the top. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:56:48 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Thinking of Lori (NJC) <> I agree, and I think this is a MUCH bigger problem than the potential influence of video games or lyrics in a Judas Priest or Ozzy record. I mean, years ago nutjobs existed and ran around shooting people, but it wasn't the focus of everyone in the nation. Here in G-ville, it's the main focus of conversation...someone will go to a news website, get the latest, and walk around telling everybody. When I went to the gym, both TV's are tuned in to the news, and people are just fixated on it. I can see it for something like 9/11, but this doesn't seem like it should generate that kind of interest, except that people have become so easily manipulated to believe that they HAVE TO KNOW every minute detail of whatever news story they're being fed. I was amazed when I was in Detroit a couple of years ago and saw all the papers with headlines about Union SC trailer trash kid-killer Susan Smith...I couldn't comprehend why that would be of interest to the average Michigander, except for the fact that if they can hook us with these kind of stories, they can sell us product along the way... Bob NP: The State of Mind, "Move" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:05:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Reuters message boards reactions <> Well, Penny, I hope your memory isn't SO bad that you've forgotten your buddy in Greenville, SC..WELCOME BACK! :~) Thanks too for that link to the message board...wow, when I went there were almost 300 messages, most written pretty intelligently & knowledgably. People were immediately throwing out lyrics from For Free, Free Man In Paris, For The Roses...it was pretty cool. Not everyone was backing her, as indeed we're not here as well, but I was pleasantly surprised. Bob NP: The Time Stoppers, "I Need Love" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #426 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)