From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #419 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, October 10 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 419 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Rod Stewart et al [colin ] 31 Blue Years [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Re: in response to war NJC [colin ] Re: in response to war NJC ["kakki" ] Re: in response to war NJC [colin ] Re: originally Rod Stewart now standards albums (NJC) [] Re: early and influential standards album - njc [] Re: in response to war NJC ["kakki" ] Re: johnny angel [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: johnny angel now njc [Catherine McKay ] Fw: in response to war NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: NJC Covers/Standards Recordings [nyroman ] Re: Defending CMIAR [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Defending CMIAR ["Tom Rodwell" ] NJC Re: Defending CMIAR [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] NJC Rickie Lee Jones [James Phillips ] Charlie [Dave Cuneo ] Re: New Y0rk Tendaberry NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC Rickie Lee Jones ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: in response to war NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Was: johnny angel, Now: What's sampling, Poppa? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Was: johnny angel, Now: What's sampling, Poppa? [David Sadowski ] Re: Defending CMIAR ["Lori Fye" ] Re: He said he's leavin' but he don't go (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Seasonal Joni Selections [Jerry Notaro ] book ["Kate Bennett" ] Seasonal Joni [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: book [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] njc Students Protest War; Michigan Senator involved [vince Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al I assumed Linda was first ebcause in an interview back then, about Torch, carly talked about Linda's work. Mark or Travis wrote: > > I think Linda was first and then Carly. > > > Actually I'm pretty sure Carly's 'Torch' came before Linda's 'What's New?' > Now I have to get up and go look. Could you hang on for a few minutes? > I'll be right back.......................................Ok, I'm back. Yes. > 'Torch' was released in 1981 and 'What's New' in 1983. Not sure where that > fits in with the Nilsson. > > Mark E. in Seattle > (feeling a little like Judy Garland...'talk to each other...mill around or > something!') - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:07:38 EDT From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: 31 Blue Years Of course I have been listening Stereophonically to Joni since STAS , but while listening to Blue(for the millionth time) last night I got stuck on the phrase "Crown and anchor me" I always got a picture in my head of a tattoo on a sailors shoulder of an Anchor and a Crown with Joni written in fancy script across it. But then all the other associations hit me. The Dice Game, All the Bars(Gay and Straight) named the C&A and what other Meanings C&A Archaic and Modern might have.Blue is the most short and stuningly perfect song when Sneaky Pete first notes start up on Califonia I am awakened from a blue state and sent down the red dirt road in Spain. NP Last train Home, Pat Metheny (A true Classic) Brian Symes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:19:45 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: in response to war NJC kakki wrote: > > > I took this to mean that both love and hate exist in the world at large > (excluding for a moment one's inner world, love and hate do not exist in the world at large. they exist within us. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:12:08 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC I don't see why this is an argument, colin. If I witness someone on the street beating their child, it is something I am observing in three dimensional reality and not some construct that originated from within me. Yes, love and hate reside in us an individuals but either orientation can affect others outside of us or the "world at large." The person beating the child will affect me and might provoke me to step in and stop it, or yell at the person, or call the police or evoke sadness and horror in me. I can't imagine watching someone hurting someone else and then saying to myself not to recognize it as bad because it's all only within my own inner world reality. It seems you have agreed before that actions or love/hate orientations arising from one can affect another, so we are ultimately saying the same thing, I think. Kakki > > I took this to mean that both love and hate exist in the world at large > > (excluding for a moment one's inner world, > > love and hate do not exist in the world at large. they exist within us. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:49:08 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: in response to war NJC kakki wrote: > I don't see why this is an argument, colin. If I witness someone on the > street beating their child, it is something I am observing in three > dimensional reality and not some construct that originated from within me. > Yes, love and hate reside in us an individuals but either orientation can > affect others outside of us or the "world at large." The person beating the > child will affect me and might provoke me to step in and stop it, or yell at > the person, or call the police or evoke sadness and horror in me. I can't > imagine watching someone hurting someone else and then saying to myself not > to recognize it as bad because it's all only within my own inner world > reality. It seems you have agreed before that actions or love/hate > orientations arising from one can affect another, so we are ultimately > saying the same thing, I think. > > Kakki what you say above is very different from what you said below: > > > > > I took this to mean that both love and hate exist in the world at large > > > (excluding for a moment one's inner world, My response was to that statement. of course one sees things all day everyday. however, it is we who give what we see/experience meaning. it has none on it's own. In your statement, you said that love and hate exist in the world at large apart from within oursleves. that is what i didsagree with. they both come form within us. And yes, I do believe that we each affect everyone else. Nothing happens is in a vacumn. How we are within affects all others eventually. > > > > > love and hate do not exist in the world at large. they exist within us. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:17:20 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: originally Rod Stewart now standards albums (NJC) > < who started this trend, was it Joni or not?>> > > Rickie Lee recorded "Pop Pop" in 1991 and "Girl at Her Vaolcano" > in 1992, and they both contained scads of standards (some of them > not-so-standard, even!) and even sold a few copies, to boot. > > Cindy Amng those who recorded "standards albums", I particularly like Sinead O'Connor's AM I NOT YOUR GIRL album. She was good in some songs like the Marilyn Monroe "I Want To Be Loved By You"; her "Bewitched" eclipsed whoever gave a definitive version; and her "Why Don't You Do Right" was swinging. I also liked Scottish singer Sheena Easton's NO STRINGS album. She gave near definitive versions of "How Deep is the Ocean" and "The Nearness of You". And her bebop vocalese c/o "Moody's Mood for Love" was delightfully inventive. Produver and pianist Patrice Rushen should also be thanked. Joseph np: Betty Carter "East of the Sun and West of the Moon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:45:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: song to a seagull confession: i'm not the kind of person who listens to joni a lot...tho i have phases when i will listen to one of her albums many times over...but usually i'm listening to more recently released artists & albums or to the songs inside my head... tonight having read the first almost half of shadows & light, i pulled out 3 of her early albums...song to a seagull, ladies of the canyon & blue...in my memory, my favs have long been lotc & blue... but what suprised me tonight was how mesmerized i was by song to a seagull...even with its engineering problems, her vocal quality & guitar playing are soooo exquisite...the song that really suprised me the most was the pirate of penance...chill factor... maybe its will always have a special hold on me as it was my first introduction to joni...many power of moons ago when i was a young girl...i think it is also a perfect summer changing to autumn album... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:34:09 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: early and influential standards album - njc Do you like Michael Feinstein's all Gershwin? > Which of his three all-Gershwin albums? ;-) I like the SOMEONE TO WATCH OVER ME album -- more obscure Gershwin albums which are not yet covered to death by standards singers. His earlier PURE GERSHWIN is also great because of the sparse arrangements (duo piano and the bass offers discreet support) and of his duet with the late Rosemary Clooney in "Isn't it a Pity?". His MICHAEL AND GEORGE album is still better than most Gershwin tributes, but in my opinion, he sounded tired and the reworked songs didn't exactly sound inventive, although his "Do It Again" version showed that Gershwin sounds justr as good with synthesizers and "modern" sound. Joseph PS. I consider Anne Murray's standards album CROONIN' as the worst of all. Her voice in my opinion just didn't get into the soul of the music. I preferred Toni Tennile's and even Cybill Shepherd's albums. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:14:00 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC I think you have to take my entire post in context and in response to what Kasey wrote, and not pull out just part of it. Sorry if none of it was clear to you. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:30:10 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: johnny angel In a message dated 10/10/2002 01:58:48 GMT Daylight Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: << But even more - this means that in 1988, while sampling was already being done, Joni was one of the earlier samplers, and at that point, perhaps the most mainstream artist of those experimenting with sampling. >> At this point, I must raise an appreciative voice for a very English genius: Kate Bush. Kate was up at dawn in the day of the sampler. Check out the title song to her 1982 album The Dreaming, which contains the earliest use I know of of that orchestral "stab" that was simply EVERYWHERE for some time afterwards. That song also contains strong aboriginal influences, way before "world music" was in vogue, not to mention Rolf Harris on didgeridu. By the time Joni got to it, it was well established, I'd say. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:35:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: johnny angel now njc --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > At this point, I must raise an appreciative voice > for a very English genius: > Kate Bush. Kate was up at dawn in the day of the > sampler. Check out the > title song to her 1982 album The Dreaming, which > contains the earliest use I > know of of that orchestral "stab" that was simply > EVERYWHERE for some time > afterwards. That song also contains strong > aboriginal influences, way before > "world music" was in vogue, not to mention Rolf > Harris on didgeridu. Synchro time - I've been listening to "The Dreaming" constantly for the last two or three days. I don't think I fully appreciated Kate Bush when she first appeared on the scene and now I can't get enough of her. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:58:52 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: in response to war NJC Kakki, OH MY GOD YOU GET IT! I am overwhelmed. You are right on the money. You said it so much better than I. Am I gushing? Sorry:) Kasey Kasey wrote: >> I am truly happy for anyone that has had the experiences you have at >> your fest. Again I wish every one could have that, but not every one >> wants it. That is why some where between the love and hate comes the >> medium. I took this to mean that both love and hate exist in the world at large (excluding for a moment one's inner world, which is hopefully filled with love most of the time) and that, while I would assume most healthy people are drawn towards love, they still are often unavoidably confronted with hate which is usually irrational and underserved. I think that the "medium" you speak of might be that "sitting in the middle" area where one, not swayed by either emotion, strives to realistically gauge how to deal with hate. Embracing hate with love may work sometimes, or it might get you destroyed. Both outcomes are possible. It isn't easy sometimes to know the best/wisest response. KakkiGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:16:34 -0400 From: nyroman Subject: Re: NJC Covers/Standards Recordings I may have jumped in too soon on this one, since I've realized now that the subject was more of a "standards" theme than a "covers" theme. Sorry about that! Gary nyroman wrote: > > How about Nyro's "Gonna Take A Miracle" released in 1971 as one of the > leaders in the "covers" albums done in recent times? > > Best, > > Gary > > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > > > **'Torch' was released in 1981 and 'What's New' in 1983. Not sure where that > > fits in with the Nilsson.** > > > > Harry wins with a 1973 release! Not sure how popular his was, though, but it > > was very pretty. > > > > And re: Rod Stewart, move over Mark cuz I'm hurling too! > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Walt Breen, "Jericho" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:58:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: and the more out of tune voices on it the better <> Dude - don't shoot! :~) Nice piece of work, Jeff - let's see some more of this creative stuff! And you get no argument from me that this here gig can be very addicting... Bob, here for almost 5 years now NP: Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, "(I'll Love You) Till The End Of The World" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:07:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Defending CMIAR "workingwilly" said: <> Not from me...I never would have bought it! Come to think of it, I *didn't* buy it when it came out, I borrowed it from my friend David Russell and put it on tape, cutting "Tea Leaf" because I had to trim it to fit on one side of a 45-minute tape and I thought that one to be the worst. <> I just love all these rationalizations for defending Joni's weaker efforts, really...reminds me of when my Mom tried to convince me that I should eat the nasty-tasting food on my plate because kids in China were starving. And I even offered to mail them ALL my peas & carrots! :~) Of course, my Mom ALSO told me that if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all, so maybe I should just leave poor ol' CMIAR be. Bob NP: Patti Smith, "It Takes Time" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:34:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: early and influential standards album - njc One of the earliest I remember is Cher's Bittersweet White Light. Tracks: 1.By Myself 2.I Got It Bad And That Ain't Good 3.Am I Blue 4.How Long Has This Been Going On 5.The Man I Love 6.Jolson Medley: Sonny Boy My Mammy Rock-A-Bye Your Baby With A Dixie Melody 7.More Than You Know 8.Why Was I Born 9.The Man That Got Away It is still a favorite of mine. It was a bold record for a very young (23) Cher to follow her very huge solo hit Half Breed with such a risky release. The critics didn't think much of it, but it was recently released on cd. Jerry np: Tim Buckley - Once I Was ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 01:46:13 +1300 From: "Tom Rodwell" Subject: Re: Defending CMIAR Bob writes: > > Of course, my Mom ALSO told me that if you can't say something nice about > someone, don't say anything at all, so maybe I should just leave poor ol' > CMIAR be. > Hi Bob....Well I gotta say I really rather dig parts of CMIAR, primarily because of the breathy quality of Joni's singing. I love Beat of Black Wings, Reoccurring Dream (maybe because they were both on the first Joni album I heard - Misses) and Corrina, Corrina I have a lot of time for. But the stand out, for me, has to be Secret Place. That's a killer song in every way; simple but interesting and effective chords, not unlike Night Ride Home, with those add-2's......and what groovy drumming too. By the way, I think Otis and Marlena could be excellent with orchestra. I think we might be surprised by the orchestrations. Who's to say the whole ensemble will be performing on every track? Much of the album could in fact be smaller chamber arrangements. Tom np: Steely Dan "The Fez" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:56:03 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Defending CMIAR <> That's Manu Katche from Gabriel's band at the time if I'm not mistaken...you're right, and Secret Place is a good track & a nice intro to the record. It's a good idea to find things that work within a song rather than picking faults, so thanks for reminding me to do that. << Who's to say the whole ensemble will be performing on every track? Much of the album could in fact be smaller chamber arrangements.>> Believe me, NOTHING would make me happier! My overriding gripe with BSN was the heaviness of that humongo orchestra sound throughout, with little variation. If she decides to vary her accompanists on Travelogue (btw, what are we gonna abbreviate this one to..."T"?), I will be a happy camper indeed. Especially with O&M, I just don't hear that at all with a FULL orchestra. If she can achieve the sound that Elvis C. got with The Juliet Letters, that would be fine with me. Bob NP: Temptations, "Just My Imagination" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:03:39 +1300 From: "Tom Rodwell" Subject: Re: Defending CMIAR My overriding gripe with BSN was > the heaviness of that humongo orchestra sound throughout, with little > variation. If she decides to vary her accompanists on Travelogue (btw, what > are we gonna abbreviate this one to..."T"?), I will be a happy camper > indeed. Especially with O&M, I just don't hear that at all with a FULL > orchestra. > Yes neither do I...and I thought BSN coulda been a little smokier and a little less syrupy. I'd like to hear more woodwinds and brass from the orchestra...percussion too...and lots and lots of Herbie H. > If she can achieve the sound that Elvis C. got with The Juliet Letters, > that would be fine with me. Have you heard that Bill Frisell (plus Brian Blade and Greg Liesz) album of covers of the Elvis Costello/Burt Bacharch collaborations? I nearly bought it last month.......and may have to this one. Tom np: Steely Dan "Aja" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:11:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Defending CMIAR <> Funny you mention that one, Tom...twice I have picked it up, carried it to the cash register, and then backed out. Typical male, afraid of commitment, I suppose! :~) Maybe I'll see if I can get it for cheep (intentional misspelling Lori) on EBay, it should be available at a good price by now. Bob NP: Marvin Gaye, "Trouble Man" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 10 Oct 2002 06:31:02 -0700 From: James Phillips Subject: NJC Rickie Lee Jones Being an RLJ besides a Joni fan, I thought I'd clarify a few release dates of Rickie's. Girl at her volcano was released in 1983. It consists of some live performances of standards, a few choice covers, and an original song "Hey bub" that was initially written for her 1981 album "Pirates". In 1991, Rickie released Pop Pop, an acoustic album of standards. What set Pop Pop apart was that as opposed to a piano and orchestra, Rickie primarily used guitar and stand up bass with a few instruments to augment that. In 2000, Rickie released It's Like this, an album of cover tunes of everything from Smile to Trouble Man by Marvin Gaye. As well, on her website http://www.rickieleejones.com she has a number of live albums available that are only available from her website. On one of these albums, from a set in fall of 99 at Joe's Pub in NYC, she is tackling mostly standards (with an original song or two) Thought I would add in my two cents worth, James Phillips NP Susaye Greene - No Fear Here "We come to the river, we'll walk away from all this now, We come to the water, we'll walk away from all this now" Rickie Lee Jones "Flying Cowboys" http://www.geocities.com/thebleachboi/home.html - ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:34:36 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Charlie Ciao joniphiles, In the FWIW department. "And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your >point, > > Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I > > forget whether we called them that or they called us that." The insurgents in South Viet Nam were called the Viet Cong, which got shortened to "VC". The military uses a phonetic alphabet and "VC" is "Victor Charlie", which got shortened to "Charlie", which came to mean the enemy. During the Cold War the Russians were "Ivan" (don't know exactly why) and during WW2 the Japanese were called "Tojo". Not sure what they called the Germans other than "Krauts". Today we have all sorts of names for Arabs/Moslems which need not be mentioned here. dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:42:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: New Y0rk Tendaberry NJC Blair Fraipont wrote: > But back to New York Tendaberry, my favorite tracks are > Tom Cat GOodby, Save the COuntry, Mercy on Broadway, and Captain for Dark > Mornings. Captain for Dark Mornings was on Joni's Top Twelve List. Joni has had only the highest regard for Laura and is the only singer songwriter (besides Bob) that she doesn't bristle when compared. the whole list: Joni Mitchell: "My Top 12" BBC Radio 1, London, England May 29, 1983 Edith Piaf, LesTrois Cloches Joni Mitchell, Speechless Little Richard, Lucille Lambert, Hendricks & Ross, Cloudburst Bob Dylan, Memphis Blues Again Laura Nyro, Captain For Dark Mornings Miles Davis, Nefertiti Burundi Drums (drum track / 8216;Jungle Line 8217;) Steely Dan, Gaucho Stevie Wonder, That Girl Billie Holiday, You 8217;ve Changed Peter Gabriel, I Have The Touch Stravinsky, Rites of Spring (Introduction) np: Eminem - Halie's Song ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:49:52 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC Rickie Lee Jones James wrote: a few choice covers, and an original song "Hey bub" that was initially written for her 1981 album "Pirates". Thanks for the info James. Hard to imagine Pirates could have been any better than it was, and it is, but "Hey Bub" could have been nothing but a plus. mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:43:18 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Rickie Lee Jones <> And just to make it 2 1/2 cents, I'll add that Girl At Her Volcano was released on a mini-LP, about 2/3 the size of a regular LP. I bought it immediately, and then found out that the cassette release added yet another song, "Something Cool", so I had to buy that too. I assume all those have been re-released together on one CD. <> With choice backup from Ben Folds, Joe Jackson, and others. And she covers "Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys" which I thought to be a particularly inspired ballsy choice. A must for RLJ fans. Bob NP: Etta James, "At Last" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:07:53 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: johnny angel If you really want to get serious about tracing the origins of what we today call "sampling," you can trace them back at least to some novelty hits of the 1950s. And what about The Beatles? Isn't there anything in their canon that could be termed sampling? The ironic thing about the Kate Bush record you mention is that it was not very well received when it came out. It was considered way too experimental... my fave KB record is, and remains, Never For Ever. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/10/2002 01:58:48 GMT Daylight Time, >revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > ><< But even more - this means that in 1988, while sampling was already being >done, Joni was one of the earlier samplers, and at that point, perhaps the >most >mainstream artist of those experimenting with sampling. >> > >At this point, I must raise an appreciative voice for a very English genius: >Kate Bush. Kate was up at dawn in the day of the sampler. Check out the >title song to her 1982 album The Dreaming, which contains the earliest use I >know of of that orchestral "stab" that was simply EVERYWHERE for some time >afterwards. That song also contains strong aboriginal influences, way before >"world music" was in vogue, not to mention Rolf Harris on didgeridu. > >By the time Joni got to it, it was well established, I'd say. > >Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:21:05 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC > > hate which is usually irrational and underserved. > > Since this one might bring out the old flyswatter - I > meant "undeserved" ! LOL, I'm glad you clarified that, Kakki! I was about to tell you that hate is definitely being served where I live (Sniperville, MD). Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:40:14 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Was: johnny angel, Now: What's sampling, Poppa? David asks: << And what about The Beatles? Isn't there anything in their canon that could be termed sampling? >> If sampling means sounding like another act, then "Back in the USSR" has that Beach Boys-sounding part. But I always thought that sampling meant actually using the original recording within a new work. And in the case of "The Beat of Black Wings," that's Joni singing "Johnny/Charlie Angel" -- it's not Shelley Fabres' original recording being played -- so I wouldn't call it sampling. So my question is . . . what's the real definition of sampling? --Bob, 'under pressure' to find the meaning of everything ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:11:09 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Was: johnny angel, Now: What's sampling, Poppa? If that's your definition of sampling, then there's the "sampled" Spanish guitar part at the beginning of Bungalow Bill on the White Album... which came straight out of the EMI tape archive. In addition, there's the sampled BBC radio broadcast in All You Need Is Love. Really, though, sampling started with novelty singles and comedy records in the 50s. Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >David asks: > ><< And what about The Beatles? Isn't there anything in their canon that >could be termed sampling? >> > >If sampling means sounding like another act, then "Back in the USSR" has that >Beach Boys-sounding part. But I always thought that sampling meant actually >using the original recording within a new work. And in the case of "The Beat >of Black Wings," that's Joni singing "Johnny/Charlie Angel" -- it's not >Shelley Fabres' original recording being played -- so I wouldn't call it >sampling. > >So my question is . . . what's the real definition of sampling? > > --Bob, 'under pressure' to find the meaning of everything ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:52:11 -0700 From: "jeff t." Subject: He said he's leavin' but he don't go Morning group, I know I near-pleaded to be let out last night, but dawn's crack has brought an inner calmness. Plus I've realized a promise is a promise, so Cynthia, here is an answer. It all started in a car. A friend's car, actually and thankfully, for I was having perception issues. And maybe I was unlicensed. I remember the night clearly, for it was hardly a clear night. Fog everywhere ... hard to tell where the car began and ended. Harder still knowing where we began and ended. If you haven't been in that space, e-mail me privately and I'll explain. So there we sat, a slow rumbling building in our famished bellies, as my friend popped a cassette into the dash, claiming I 'ought listen to this.' He loved to use the word 'ought', it being so much friendlier than 'should'. I agreed. To listen I mean... So as that maniacal hunger built in me, out of those (foggy) speakers came a voice so pure, so sexy, so enticing, I thought I may have been hallucinating. "Call me when you're loaded" She implored. "My best recipes?" "Cooking after midnight?", "Sitting on her groceries?". Hell, a pretty good cook was all I needed, not some 4 star gourmand. Who was this Muse who spoke to my inner self? It was all I could think about on the way to the Winn Dixie. Was there more? Was it always about food? Well, those were the days. You have your tales as I do mine. That willowy songbird still perches on my shoulder, welcome company through thick and thin. Of course I have my favorites; worn out albums, rebought CD's, songs that never leave, rifts so pervasive I run stop signs. You guys run stop signs, right? But instead, perhaps more insight into Jeff might be gleaned (please remember my initial post mentioned self-absorption, front and center) by a few examples. Lines that define me. Words that shape me. My favorite perhaps, who can really say?, is from that gem Coyote. When She sings about 'wrestling with my eagle', I swoon. Can you just picture that decked out crow wrestling with her lofty eagle? The very same eagle who later battles Her serpent, it's tail feathers now dragging in the dust cause Her crow had beat the hell out of it. This marvelous avian juxtapositioning never fails to make me soar. Of course She has more tricks up Her sleeves. Perhaps more brilliant in it's wordplay is the biting verse from The Windfall. God I hate that guy. When She finally screams "you'd eat your Jung alive for a Jaguar in the drive" I am so far past fit to be tied I can taste his blood. She nails him though, huh. Her Anima 1, JerkyBoy nuthin'. KO in the final round. Though I hesitate to overuse terminology, I beg your forbearance. She juxtaposes like Ali right here. Yin and Yang, She and He, the reality of a well-connected punch in that sniveling little agent's dreamland of a nose. Anything lower than self-cannibalization, friends? I think not. He's a goner. Well, I know you have lives, but let me offer one more example. This one is particularly endearing in it's simplicity. Transcending Her angst, She now looks inward...homeward, if you will. It comes, juxtapositionally, smack in the middle of Shiny Toys, that anthem to materialism. Refer to Line 31 (of 63, but even She's not a miracle worker): "I Love My Porch" croons out. Can you dig it? All these glittering objects around us but She longs for her porch. Her home. Her sanctuary. Is that mature or what? The world spins out of control around Her and She yearns for an anchor, metaphorically presented as a porch. Better than home, better than hearth, truly a refuge of the road. And if I'm not mistaken, her pal James provides that line, as if he's calling her to come on in. The guy that actually wrote Oh Susannah, another anecdote of the power that 'Home' has on us all. C'mon Joni, here is where you belong. My suspenders and pipe, your good dog and some trees, our deep kisses. Is anyone else tearing up? Give me a moment, Jeff _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:56:59 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Defending CMIAR This is what always happens when I eventually get around to playing "Chalkmark": I find I like it - all of it - better than I remembered. But then I move on, to play it again (Sam) in another 6 or 8 months. Because it's the one Joni album that just doesn't "do it" for me. Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:04:17 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: He said he's leavin' but he don't go (NJC) > Is anyone else tearing up? With laughter and immense appreciation for your wit, Jeff - yes! This post somehow belongs in the Parody section!! Lovin' it, Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:21:53 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: The Last Time I Saw Richard Sorry to bother you all with this, but I had promised one of our members in the UK a copy of sheet music to TLTISR and I have lost her address. Please contact me (ken) And, in response to Kate's thought about STAS being a great summer into autumn disc, I've never thought of it that way. But you are right--it does work that kind of wistful melancholy! TI has always been my big Autumn CD, probably because of it's October release date. Any other listers care to weigh in with their seasonal or environmental associations? ken np-i must be crazy/pillbox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:25:57 -0400 From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Seasonal Joni Selections For me, Miles of Aisles is the perfect first day of spring album. Driving around in the car, with the windows down, and MOA cranked to the max - it's an annual ritual for me. I haven't listened to STAS in quite some time, so I think I will give this one a try - I would love to have a corresponding autumn ritual! Thanks for the idea, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:37:19 +1000 From: "Michael" Subject: Richard Clapton njc Hi All I have been working for a while now on a site for Australian songwriter Richard Clapton. I was wondering if anyone would like to check it out. There a quite a few full songs to listen to on the MP3 page. Hey you never know you might become a fan Anyway www.richardclapton.net is where you'll find it. Cheers Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:46:38 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Seasonal Joni Selections Merk54@aol.com wrote: > For me, Miles of Aisles is the perfect first day of spring album. Driving around in the car, with the windows down, and MOA cranked to the max - it's an annual ritual for me. > > I haven't listened to STAS in quite some time, so I think I will give this one a try - I would love to have a corresponding autumn ritual! Clouds is definitely an autumn album for me. Jerry np: Eva Cassidy - Who Knows Where the Times Go ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:24:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: book has the shadows & light book been discussed here? i wonder what others think of it...i'm only about half way through... i remember kakki making an observation about the innacuracy of one point (california recording studios) & i wonder if other errors have been found... i guess if we can give our opinions on joni's art, we can do it on this book, right? i like a lot of the quotes, it seems like much of the material is drawn from the jonimitchell.com website...there is a lot of great info (which is why i ask about accuracy) & often times she mentions discussions that have taken place on this list... but i find the book to be all over the place sometimes, with the author throwing in some of her own viewpoints on things which to me seems out of place...she goes off on tangents that seem irrelvant... the book is great for facts, but not very artful writing, imo...to be fair, it must be hard to write someone's bio...especially joni's seems like if a really good editor could take some time with it, this book could be greatly improved... i wonder if joni has read it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:06:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Seasonal Joni <> Clouds for me is very much a summer album, probably because I have enjoyed it and really "discovered" it listening to it on the beach house deck. Hissing of Summer Lawns...guess you gotta call that one a Summer one by default! :~) Bob NP: Geno Delafose & French Rockin' Boogie, "Bye Bye Mon Neg" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:42:58 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: book **i wonder what others think of it...i'm only about half way through...** First of all, Kate, what a creative subject line! LOL! Reminds me of the kindegarten classes where the teacher has taped signs all over everything..."door", "window", "chair", etc... But back to the matter at hand...thanks to our wooly-mammoth-hearted Uncle John*, I got S&L at the fest, read it in about 2 weeks or so (over breakfast in the morning), and enjoyed it a lot. You're right about her throwing in some personal viewpoints, BUT she's not near as bad as Brian Hinton's "Both Sides Now" bio. A couple of new facts there to be sure, but to us hard-cores not a lot that we didn't already know. And I kept dozing off in the last chapter about her painting - what would have been more interesting would have been to simultaneously trace her painting along with her music. But I shouldn't complain too much - after all, I get a mention on page 334! :~) No mention of Murphy as far as I can tell... Bob NP: Donna Binkley, "Eyes That Cannot See" you go girl! *This could be interpreted as John's heart being sized like that of a Wooly Mammoth, OR that he has a mammoth heart and is wooly. Either is correct! :~) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:43:23 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc Students Protest War; Michigan Senator involved HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS DEMAND WARS IN EASIER-TO-FIND COUNTRIES "How Come No One Fights in Big Famous Nations Anymore?" They Ask Washington, D.C. (SatireWire.com)  A delegation of American high school students today demanded the United States stop waging war in obscure nations such as Afghanistan, Kuwait, and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and instead attack places they've actually heard of, such as France, Australia, and Austria, unless, they said, those last two are the same country. "Shouldn't we, as Americans, get to decide where wars are?" asked sophomore Kate Shermansky. "People claim we don't know as much geography as our parents and grandparents, but it's so not our fault," Josh Beldoni, a senior at Fischer High School in Los Angeles, told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "Back then they only had wars in, like, Germany and England, but we're supposed to know about places like Somalia and Massachusetts." "Macedonia," corrected committee Chairman Carl Levin of Michigan. "See?" said Beldoni. Beldoni's frustration was shared by nearly three dozen students at the hearing, who blamed the U.S. military for making them look bad. "I totally support our soldiers and all that, but I am seriously failing both geography and social studies because I keep getting asked to find Croatia or Yemvrekia, or whatever bizarre-o country we send troops to," said Amelia Nash, a junior at Clark High School in Orlando, Fla. "Can't we fight in, like, Italy? It's boot-shaped." Chairman Levin however, explained that Italy was a U.S. ally, and that intervention is usually in response to a specific threat. "OK, what about Arulco?" interrupted Tyler Boone, a senior at Bellevue High School in Wisconsin. "That's a country in Jagged Alliance 2 run by the evil Queen Deidranna. I'm totally familiar with that place. She's a major threat." "Jagged...?" said Levin. "Alliance. It's a computer game." "Well, no," Levin answered. "We can't attack a fictional country." "Yeah right," Boone mumbled. "Like Grenada was real." The students' testimony was supported by a cross-section of high school geography teachers, who urged the committee to help lay a solid foundation for America's young people by curtailing any intervention abroad. "Since the anti-terror war began, most of my students can now point to Afghanistan on a map, which is fine, but those same kids still don't know the capitals of Nevada and Ohio," said Richard Gerber, who teaches at Rhymony High School in Atlanta. "I think we need to cut back on our activities overseas and take care of business at home, and if that means invading Tallahassee (Fla.) or Trenton (N.J.) so that students learn where they are, so be it." "I've always wanted to stick it to Hartford (Conn.)," said Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island. "Oh shit, is my microphone on?" The hearing adjourned after six hours. An estimated 2,000 more students were expected to hold a march in the nation's capital, but forgot which city it was in. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:07:06 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: Linda Thompson tour/article in today's paper [NJC] kakki, The Troupador show Friday (tomorrow!) is *so* *NOT* soldout! Go! Get your tickets on TicketMaster: Here's the link. https://ticketing.ticketmaster.com/cgi/purchasePage.asp?event_id=900351CDB808F55&artistid=835681&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=52 Richard At 6:25 PM -0700 10/9/02, kakki wrote: >Hi Richard - > >> She's in LA at The Troupador on Saturday night... >> SF/Great American tomorrow night... > >I saw this for the LA date last week but recall it was already sold out or I would try to go. Thanks for the article. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:31:44 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: early and influential standards album - njc Do >you like Michael Feinstein's all Gershwin? > haven't heard it. i did want to say this: best standards album of the last ten years: mystery lady (1994) - etta james patrick, who is listening to standards and potentials tonight... np - marianne faithfull - nobody's fault (beck) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:44:41 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: early and influential standards album - njc >The fact that Nelson Riddle was involved made me pay attention to >the Ronstadt >recordings. In '83 (as a high school junior) I plunked down a >pretty penny for a 5 >disc, import vinyl set - "Ella Fitzgerald Sings the George & Ira >Gershwin Song Book," in 1981, i did a version of 'girl crazy' at college of marin's summer theater program, which was very fine. the music director was someone who had worked with ira g., and the show was absolutely chock full of gershwin's greatest and talented singers. that just rocked my world, and i acquired the double-album ella-george songbook on lp soon after. that longer import version must be amazing... >I bought the Ronstadt recordings later and found the performances >fairly tame (and >in some instances, downright dull) by comparison. > i know what you mean, but the ronstadt records for me were almost a re-introduction of the standards, for me. my mom was a singer, we'd learned broadway and other 40-50s popular songs around the piano, but by the eighties that was far behind. i was a led zep/floyd head, plus disco. ronstadt's project, with the experience above, the very familiar name of nelson riddle (i really loved those cheesy early '70s variety specials and riddle was a huge presence) and some other reasons, just really caught me. ronstadt's standards are very far under the top, but she was very honest with the songs, and her voice was just so aurally beautiful. i don't listen to them a lot, but i'll always be fond of them. patrick np - bonnie raitt - angel from montgomery ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #419 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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