From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #417 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 9 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 417 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: CMIARS [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Fw: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: in response to war NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: CMIARS [Susan McNamara ] Re: Fw: Fw: in responds to war NJC [colin ] Re: Fw: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Tipping The Velvet NJC [colin ] Re: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: CMIARS [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: CMIARS - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: CMIARS - njc [Susan McNamara ] Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Susan Guzzi ] Rod Stewart et al ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC Re: Rod Stewart et al [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Fw: in response to war NJC ["kasey simpson" ] Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Rod Stewart et al ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Rod Stewart et al ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: in response to war NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Rod Stewart et al [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Old composition teachers never die (NJC) [] Johnny Angel [] Linda Thompson tour/article in today's paper [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Re: Rod Stewart et al [colin ] re:tipping the velevet njc [colin ] Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: greatness ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Johnny Angel ["kakki" ] Joni in Rolling Stone now very njc [vince ] CMIARS & DED [vince ] Bob's political emails revealed NJC [vince ] Re: Old composition teachers never die (NJC) [vince ] Re: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] New Y0rk Tendaberry NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:32:56 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS <> She has said that she had a real challenge putting words to Klein's music on the songs they cowrote, because his musical phrases are so short. So she was working out of her usual mode which gives those songs the unnatural feel that they have. As for Snakes & Ladders, it would have worked better with just Joni's vocal as opposed to the duet with Henley. Just my opinion...this was one of Don Rowe's faves, wish he was still around to stick up for it. Bob NP: Cowboy Junkies, "Ooh Las Vegas" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:52:53 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC Lori, I have written many post on list to people who have posted to me. Why just the exchange between Bree and I are questioning? Bree, Thanks for the update on Paul. You are right, I had no clue to the reference. Curmudgeon!? Why I've never been so insulted:) Kasey Bree and Kasey, I'm a little bit curious ... why are you having this conversation on the discussion list? Isn't it just between the two of you? Just wondering, Lori > You curmudgeon you!! Sorry about the loss..and everything. > > Bree > > > > > Bree, > > At least your responds was openly off the mark!:) > >No we didn't win, but we had a great time. Sorry you > >couldn't make, maybe next time. I look forward to > >talking with you again sometime. > >Kasey > > > > > >But Kasey..did you like the riverboat and did you win?!! :-O > > > >BreeGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:56:29 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC > I am truly happy for anyone that has had the experiences you have at > your fest. Again I wish every one could have that, but not every one > wants it. That is why some where between the love and hate comes the > medium. Wow. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic, but I'm also dumbstruck. Evil- doers aside, not everyone wants peace and love? People are searching for a medium between love and hate? Why on earth would someone do THAT? What is that called, anyway? Purgatory? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm truly at a loss for understanding these concepts. Lori P.S. - The fest is OURS and includes EVERYONE on the JMDL, whether or not they've attended. ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 11:58:54 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:57:08 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: CMIARS I have to agree that the whole "duet" thing was overdone on this album. She should have just stuck with Gabriel and My Secret Place as the opener, and totally shelved the Billy Idol/Tom Petty thing. yikes, that was embarrassing. Some late night partying should be kept to yourself and not recorded for posterity! Although I LOVE Cool Water. Willie works on that song. suemc >As for Snakes & Ladders, it would have worked better with just Joni's vocal >as opposed to the duet with Henley. Just my opinion...this was one of Don >Rowe's faves, wish he was still around to stick up for it. > >Bob > >NP: Cowboy Junkies, "Ooh Las Vegas" - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:18:17 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: in responds to war NJC kasey simpson wrote: > Victor, > You are insightful. How eloquently put. I'm not a > follower of Rene' Deckard (spelling wrong) but he made > some very strong points for creating our own worlds. Maybe > one day the genie inside me will come out. I do enjoy reading > your post. Thank you. > Kasey > > Actually, if you think about it, this whole debate that has been going on > exists only in our heads and is not roaming freely around the whole world. > So where does that leave us? > > The thing is, everything you feel, think, experience exists inside of you. > yes. we each create our own world. It is the only one we live in. We each create our own meaning and structures. people tend to get on when they share similar meanings and not when they don't and try to force their meanings onto others. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:12:42 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Fw: bree/riverboat/Lori NJC My apologies for the previous blank post. > Lori, > I have written many post on list to people who > have posted to me. Why just the exchange between > Bree and I are questioning? Kasey, I don't mean to ruffle your feathers, so I hope you'll take my comments constructively and with the respect I intend. It just seemed to me that the "bree/riverboat NJC" posts were a personal exchange between you and Bree, with no content relevant to anything else being written about on the list. It reminded me of an instant messaging session. Just a few days ago Les reminded us of list etiquette: > 5) Don't throw "crumbs": People sometimes tend to use the discussion > list as a chat room. (There is a chat room here: > http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm) > > 6) Post from within the ballpark: ...the JMDL is an unmoderated > discussion of anything and everything related to the "life, art, > music, and times of Joni Mitchell". We don't always talk about Joni > but we try to "stay in the ballpark". The riverboat discussion wasn't very near the ballpark, although I guess you could have been thinking about Riverfront Stadium at the time. Les did not include list etiquette number 7, but I will include the first sentence here now: 7) Please do not post another's private email to the list without their permission. I emailed you and Bree privately to inquire about your posting. I'm not sure why you decided to forward my post to the list, and there's no real harm done, but you did do it without my permission. For anyone who would like to refer to it, JMDL list etiquette in its entirety can be found here: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni.info Best to all, Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:39:56 +0100 From: colin Subject: Tipping The Velvet NJC There is a new BBC costume drama starting tonight set in Victirian England about a love affair between two...... see if you can guess from the title. Please UK listers don't cheat! - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:38:16 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC Jimmy writes: << I can't say I'm much of a Rod Stewart fan >> I just had such a vision of you discoing to "If You Think I'm Sexy!" XO< --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:19:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS <> And nothin's better than a working Willie! :~) I agree with all of the above, and although I LOVE Gabriel's voice, the dry ethereal sound of it is so much like Joni's that it's sometimes hard to delineate the two. I would guess this one works better solo as opposed to duo. One of the reasons that the duet w/Nelson is so great is the contrast between their vocal textures, plus the fact that the song has a "desert" feel to it anyway and Willie fits that mood. Bob NP: Gillian Welch, "Hickory Wind" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:45:33 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: CMIARS - njc Susan writes: << Some late night partying should be kept to yourself and not recorded for posterity! >> Now you tell us . . . --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:47:43 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: CMIARS - njc Oh, except at Jonifest, I meant. :-) At 3:45 PM -0400 10/9/02, Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Susan writes: > ><< Some late night partying should be kept to yourself and not recorded for >posterity! >> > >Now you tell us . . . > > --Bob - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread There has been mention here of late about the now famous "Electicity" thread. I know we have had a thread concerning this masterpiece a couple of times over the years since I have been here. As I make mention again of using this song in my high school poetry classes (73- 75), along with several other Joni songs for analysis. But I have always wondered my self, about the influence this particular song had on another artist, and I am wondering if others see this as well. I am speaking specifically about Rickie Lee's "Last Chance Texaco." The use of metaphors and style I find to be uncanny. As I quickly skimmed over the "Electricity" thread from May, I did notice Mia, made some mention of a comparison back then, but no one else followed up at that time. I am of the opinion that "Elecrticity" was a direct influence on Rickie Lee writing this song - -period. So please indulge me while I post MOST of the lyrics to this piece. _______________ But you ran out of gas down the road a heap Then the battery went dead And now the cable won't reach It's your last chance To check under the hood Your last chance She ain't sounding too good Your last chance to trust the man with the star You've found the Last Chance Texaco. Well he tried to be Standard And he tried to be Mobile He tried living in a World And in a Shell There was this block-bused blonde He loved her - free parts and labor But she broke down and died And threw all the rods he gave her But this one ain't fuel injected Her plug's disconnected She gets scared and she stalls She just needs a man, that's all It's her last chance Her timings all wrong her last chance She can't idle this long Her last chance to turn her over and go Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco __________ Assuming we all know the lyrics to Joni's Electricity, written in 72, is this not one of the single most obvious direct influences of Joni on another artist? AND one that is as successful and artistic in of its self. Without Joni's song, does this song ever get written? I am not, by any means saying it is a rip-off. I feel the song stands alone, but I have always seen a most direct influence between these two songs and I wondered if anyone else see this or has an opinion. "Last Chance Texaco" was written in 78. So I am wondering if the younger song writer went off to write her own "Starry Starry Night" again man. And did so, without drawing too much scorn, well cause it's such a great song as well. I love both of these songs and still believe Rickie's best work was her first album. Although I love several others as well. But I think she totally wrote this song based on her love and admiration of Joni and in paricular here, "Electrcity." Any thoughts, or other more obvious paraellels between Joni and Rickie, or another artist, or songs? As I sit here and my brain cells continue to decrease rapidly, I feel I may have brought this up before, way back. However, I would be interested in hearing it all over again if I did! Peace, Susan Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:03:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Rod Stewart et al > From: FMYFL@aol.com > Subject: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC > > Following Joni, Carli, Linda and many others, I read that Rod Stewart will be > releasing a CD of standards, "It Had to Be You.....The Great American Song > Book". > From where I'm sitting, it looks like they all jump on the standards bandwagon after JONI had a commercial success (at least in France) with BSN. Brian Ferry also recently made an album of standards. Any idea who started this trend, was it Joni or not? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:51 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Rod Stewart et al <> That would be a good debate...Joni would of course drop a piano on your foot to insinuate that her project was derivative of someone else's...It was done to my recollection as early as Harry Nilsson with "A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night", which was simply beautiful, but Linda Ronstadt's recordings with Nelson Riddle became SO popular, eventually spawning 2 follow-ups and a box set of the whole thing, that I think lots of singers took notice. Whatever the debate, it was certainly NOT Joni that got this particular ball rolling, although I think Joni WAS the first to add a hatbox and a ridiculous price to one...running now for cover! :~) Bob NP: Steve Earle, "I Remember You" ( great new one from him ) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:11:49 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: in response to war NJC Lori, You live in an area where a mad man is taking shots at people, and it shocks you not every one wants peace and love? Where did I say "People are searching for a medium between love and hate"? Some where between the fest feelings and mad men lies the medium. How did you get people are searching for the medium out of that? Kasey > I am truly happy for anyone that has had the experiences you have at > your fest. Again I wish every one could have that, but not every one > wants it. That is why some where between the love and hate comes the > medium. Wow. Maybe I'm naive and idealistic, but I'm also dumbstruck. Evil- doers aside, not everyone wants peace and love? People are searching for a medium between love and hate? Why on earth would someone do THAT? What is that called, anyway? Purgatory? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm truly at a loss for understanding these concepts. Lori P.S. - The fest is OURS and includes EVERYONE on the JMDL, whether or not they've attended. ~Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:15:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread <> LCT is a masterpiece of a song on a masterpiece of a record, Susan...and I think your point is well made, RLJ acknowledges Joni as an influence BUT I would add that Tom Waits (who she hung out with for a time prior to her debut) was probably also a big influence on this song. Tom's songs are full of car imagery as well as stories of people who can't connect. Unfortunately, this may be the closest we'll ever come to a collaboration between my two favorite songwriters! Thanks for printing the lyrics out - sometimes it's amazing to see them all printed out like that. Bob NP: Steve Earle, "Ashes To Ashes" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:16:51 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al <> Rickie Lee recorded "Pop Pop" in 1991 and "Girl at Her Vaolcano" in 1992, and they both contained scads of standards (some of them not-so-standard, even!) and even sold a few copies, to boot. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:20:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Rod Stewart et al > <> > > That would be a good debate...Joni would of course drop a piano on your > foot to insinuate that her project was derivative of someone else's...It > was done to my recollection as early as Harry Nilsson with "A Little Touch > of Schmilsson in the Night", which was simply beautiful, but Linda > Ronstadt's recordings with Nelson Riddle became SO popular, eventually > spawning 2 follow-ups and a box set of the whole thing, that I think lots > of singers took notice. > > Whatever the debate, it was certainly NOT Joni that got this particular > ball rolling, although I think Joni WAS the first to add a hatbox and a > ridiculous price to one...running now for cover! :~) > > Bob > Hi Bob, You're right there has always been artist doing standards in each decade. But the question I meant to ask is: didn't Joni start this LATEST trend of this decade? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:25:52 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC > Lori, > You live in an area where a mad man is taking shots at > people, and it shocks you not every one wants peace and > love? I believe I wrote: "Evil-doers aside, not everyone wants peace and love?" I had our neighborhood sniper in mind when I wrote "evil-doers." > Where did I say "People are searching for a medium between love and > hate"? I guess you didn't, in those exact words. I read between the lines. Guilty as charged. Ah, semantics! : ) >> I am truly happy for anyone that has had the experiences you have at >> your fest. Again I wish every one could have that, but not every one >> wants it. That is why some where between the love and hate comes the >> medium. Best, Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:34:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al <> Well I suppose you can believe whatever you want to believe...Brian Ferry's project came out in '99, and Joni's in 2000. Technically, 2000 was the LAST year of the decade, with 2001 as the FIRST year of the new decade & century. So it may be more accurate spin to say that Joni's release provided the final "exclamation mark" to the concept and paved the way for her fellow artists in the decade to come! :~) Bob, feeling like a political speech writer... NP: Steve Earle, "What's A Simple Man To Do?" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:43:04 -0500 From: Subject: Old composition teachers never die (NJC) Kasey Simpson wrote: "For surly > ones as > loving and accepting as you would have enjoyed an intellectual debate, rather > than > a war of words, meant to cut ones soul out." OK, I've seen this snipped and copied about 3 times now, and I just can't restrain myself any longer. Who're you callin' surly??? ;-) Mary P. - --Did my time in Davis, California. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:53:29 -0500 From: Subject: Johnny Angel Jimmy, our wonderful Deputy Birthday Fairy (at least, he has served in that capacity in the recent past) writes: "( Kakki, next time you run into Joni, please ask her what she's singing :~) )" Me now: First time I saw Joni was Detroit in '98, and she told me. . . EVERYTHING BUT THE ANSWER TO THAT DAMN QUESTION, BECAUSE I FORGOT TO ASK IT!!! And believe it or not, I actually thought about that, and regretted my memory lapse, later. Just think--could've solved one of the longest running list debates with a mere handful of words. Kakki, you're our next, best hope. ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:01:11 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Linda Thompson tour/article in today's paper [NJC] From today's SF Chronicle..... (and by the way... the whole tour dates pages is on: http://www.rounder.com/tours.asp?search_type=primary_group_name&searchterm=Linda+Thompson She's in LA at The Troupador on Saturday night... SF/Great American tomorrow night... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Linda Thompson makes a resounding comeback Joel Selvin, Chronicle Staff Writer Wednesday, October 9, 2002 Linda Thompson is now the poster child for hysterical dysphonia, a rare and mysterious condition that reduces the afflicted to speaking in hoarse whispers, if at all. Doctors have only recently begun to suspect that the disorder might not be entirely psychosomatic. In any case, until recent medical advances, Thompson couldn't sing. "It's not a very known thing," she said. "It happens in pregnancy and it happened to me. And anything that doctors couldn't see 30 years ago, they said it's all in your mind. I'm a hyper-dyper person anyway, so somebody tells me I'm nuts, I go, 'Well, yeah, you're probably right.' If they say, 'It's all in your head, calm down,' I'd go, 'They must know what they're talking about.' " But, improbably enough, Thompson, whose 1982 album with her ex-husband Richard Thompson, "Shoot Out the Lights," is one of the most highly regarded rock albums of its era, is not only back with her first new album in 17 years, but she has also started a U.S. tour, her first public performances in even longer (she plays Thursday at the Great American Music Hall). This is not just another comeback; it is a triumph over great adversity. "That's the angle I'm going for," she said. "That's the thing I'm pitching to Harvey Weinstein at Miramax at the moment. It is a triumph over adversity. But if I look at it that way, it makes me feel like some tragic old diva. What it seems more like to me is there was a lot of adversity, and I did have these vocal problems. And also, I just didn't envision myself singing again. "I don't think I'm back, like in shoulder pads or something. I made this record thinking, quite honestly, it would dribble by. I've been surprised and thrilled by the response. But I certainly never thought I was going to tour or anything like that again." So everything's gotten out of hand? "Completely out of f-- hand," she said. Thompson, 54, long ago gave up life as a musician. She has remarried and been running a London jewelry store as Linda Kenis. On the phone from New York, where she was starting rehearsals, she chatted happily, a rambling, stammering self-effacing stream of consciousness ("I was sitting in bed today thinking, 'I wish I could be a gay icon,' but gay men hate folk music," she said). Recent breakthroughs in treatment for dysphonia gave Thompson back her voice. "I've been to therapy," she said. "I've been to every single thing, and the upshot of it is that I've had some Botox in my throat, which has completely taken it away, which is hilarious. I'm still as wrinkled as ever, but I'm the only person in the Western Hemisphere with an unlined esophagus. I'm so fashionable. "My doctor says my brain has been sending the wrong messages to my throat forever. He thinks it's physical, but I think it's a matter of both. I did know it wasn't just nerves because I could be really nervous and sing fantastically. I could be really calm and be stricken by this thing. But now it's gone." Doctors believe that Botox provides only temporary relief and that further injections will be needed every three to six months. "Obviously, it's something you've got to top off," she said. "That is, if I ever want to do this again." As Linda Peters, she sang on a 1971 album of '50s rock 'n' roll oldies by a loose collaboration called the Bunch with former members of the recently split Fairport Convention, including Sandy Denny and Thompson. A year later, while he was finishing his first solo album, they were married. The next year, with the landmark "I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight," they began a series of Richard and Linda Thompson albums that would culminate with the 1982 masterpiece, a record that constantly makes lists of the all- time greatest albums. By the time the album was released, however, their marriage had disintegrated, and their professional partnership did not survive beyond one last disastrous, acrimonious U.S. tour. She cut a couple of solo albums (one went unreleased) and disappeared from the music scene. But her luminous, heartbreaking vocals on recordings of "Dimming of the Day" or "A Heart Needs a Home" have only grown more lustrous over time. With her 26-year-old son, Teddy Thompson, a recording artist himself, as her collaborator, Thompson recorded "Fashionably Late," a gorgeous collection of folky songs highlighted by guest appearances from her children, her former husband, friends of her children, such as Rufus Wainwright, and onetime Beach Boys collaborator Van Dyke Parks. She finds her enduring reputation as a musician somewhat surprising. "It's amazing, that," she said. "I know when I was contemplating doing this again, asking people like Van Dyke Parks to help, the alacrity with which people helped me and accepted the pittance that I was going to pay them, that was amazing to me. "And even now, when I go into a bar in New York -- which is frequently -- there'll be a little coterie of young people who say, 'You're Linda Thompson.' I think that's so fantastic. You probably get fed up with it if you're Madonna, but it's only a little, tiny bunch of people with me." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:17:12 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: in response to war NJC Kasey, I just now saw this post: > I had been away on a mini vacation. I returned to a > box full of post. Many I found funny, some just hysterical. > So, have I fought in a war? Hummm, if yes or no does it change > the validly of facts that I have read? No, but like all of us, you might want to take the "facts" with several grains of salt. We read and hear what "they" (the government, the media) want us to read and hear. Nothing more. > If no, am I even afforded the right to an opinion? Of course you are. > loading a .38 to shoot the fu****, to pay back, or feel in > control? Neither. Simply to stop him, whether it kills him or not. Although I guess that *is* a form of taking control. (The more I think about it, though, I'm going to opt for the .357) Kasey, you never did answer my question: did you serve in the military? Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:32:01 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Rod Stewart et al > Any idea who started this trend, was it Joni or not? I think Linda was first and then Carly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:45:30 +0100 From: colin Subject: re:tipping the velevet njc i just saw the first episode. If you like period drama, you may klike this. I found it rivieting. it had me breathless and i am not into velvet at all. brought back of lot of first flush feelings and fears. wondeful i thought. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:10:50 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy You know, that is crazy, because that has plagued my thoughts ever since high school. I would get that in my head and keep singing it. In addition, in high school we had a "Rock N' Roll Cabaret" and a friend of mine sang, "JOhnnie Angel" which she despised. So, I had just bought Chalk Mark and would get that chorus in my head and just sing it to annoy her and appeal to myself. That song and "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" were may favorites. Especially "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" because I felt if Molly McGee could find her mate in the middle of a war, I could meet my mate one day and stay up watching late night tv with him. I am still waiting. Maybe I should get my tea leaves read?? Blair NP: Up on the Roof-Laura Nyro EDT > >One of the many Bobs wrote: > > > And I have always heard "Charlie Angel" which further supports your >point, > > Jerry..."Charlie" being the name that was used in Vietnam, although I > > forget whether we called them that or they called us that. > > > >I think this is Joni being clever with her words again. I always hear >"Johnny Angel" probably because my older sister played the Shelley Fabares >hit over and over when I was a kid. You could be right Bob, it might be >Charlie. It does make sense with the Vietnam situation. Joni probably >muffles the word to keep us thinking. ( Kakki, next time you run into >Joni, >please ask her what she's singing :~) ) > >JimBob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:31:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: johnny angel/Tea Leaf Prophecy > I could meet my mate one day and stay up > watching late night tv with him. I am still waiting. Maybe I should get my > tea leaves read?? > no need to have your tea leaves read. It'll happen. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:18:04 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: greatness She's certianly a 'credit to her gender'. :) She serves as a fine role model for young girls to emulate. :) Are there any more annoying things we can say, cloaking insults in pseudo-compliment? Isn't she funny about bristling at being classified as a "female", AND also bristling at being classified as a "feminist"? You gotta love her. She's the real deal. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread Hi Bob, Thanks for taking this one on. I am still interested in hearing if others hear Joni in other artists as well and pointing out those similarities. When you think of all the people who credit Joni as an influence, you would think - there may be more. I would like to discover more songs, lyric style and arrangements from other artists that dictate that influence, as obviously as I think this one does. >I said: > < seen a most direct influence between these two songs and I wondered if > anyone else see this or has > an opinion.>> Spin Doctor Muller said: > LCT is a masterpiece of a song on a masterpiece of a record, Susan...and I > think your point is well made, RLJ acknowledges Joni as an influence BUT I would add that Tom Waits (who she hung out with for a time prior to her > debut) was probably also a big influence on this song. Tom's songs are full of car imagery as well as stories of people who can't connect. Point well taken, Bob. I do agree with what you say about the subject matter & being connected, having to do with her association with Waits. However, in addition I point out the massive metaphor usage here, as in "Electricity." Also, both in "Electricity" and "Last Chance Texaco" both artists seem to put themselves in the more narrative position. So it comes down to a strong influences from both sides here, I imagine. And agreeing further Waits has never exactly shyed away from a metaphor either. Afterall, "the piano has been drinking, not me." > Thanks for printing the lyrics out - sometimes it's amazing to see them all > printed out like that. > No problem, but the first verse is missing. I just wanted to center on the parts that made the point more obvious. > > Peace, Susan >NPIMH: alternating verses of "Elecricity" AND "Last Chance Texaco" Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:58:21 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: johnny angel I had to travel today, and took along several Joni cds that I have not listened to for a long, long time. And it was halfway through Beat of Black Wings that I released that this was the "Johnny Angel" song that everyone was talking about. I am probably so used to sampling in rap that it seemed natural to me that Johnny Angel was running as an undercurrent in this song. My friend Jerry Notaro wrote: > My take is that Joni brilliantly juxtaposes the horror and realities of war > that her > generation faced with ... golden innocence But I am going to differ on his next sentiment ... I think it is innocence itself that is being contrasted by the brilliant juxtaposition (I wish I had posted those two words first) of Killer Kyle's reality and the dream of Johnny Angel. It is not, to me, what a girl of that generation would imagine vs reality, it is innocence itself that is contrasted with reality. The overwhelming comparison to me is in (and you know I'd come up with this analogy) Eminem's "Stan" with the sweetness of the Dido sample floating against the brutal reality of Stan's madness. But even more - this means that in 1988, while sampling was already being done, Joni was one of the earlier samplers, and at that point, perhaps the most mainstream artist of those experimenting with sampling. And now I wish she had done more in that regards. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:40:42 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Johnny Angel Mary wrote: > "( Kakki, next time you run into Joni, > please ask her what she's singing :~) )" > > Me now: First time I saw Joni was Detroit in '98, and she told me. . . EVERYTHING BUT THE ANSWER TO THAT DAMN QUESTION, BECAUSE I FORGOT TO ASK IT!!! Totally understandable - if you are like me, being in her presence and getting the chance to chat with her, one isn't exactly prepared with the question list! ;-) > And believe it or not, I actually thought about that, and regretted my memory lapse, later. Just think--could've solved one of the longest running list debates with a mere handful of words. LOL - I somehow think people would still question her meaning even if Joni herself accompanied by two witnesses and a notary showed up and gave us the scoop from the horse's mouth! > Kakki, you're our next, best hope. ;-) O.K. if I ever meet her again, I will try to at least have the composure to remember this one question if nothing else! ;-) A friend of Joni's (who I cannot reveal to protect the innocent), did tell me who Juan and Freddie were in "No Apologies" on TTT but it is (in my discretion) too inflammatory to reveal to the general list! ;-) By the way, your email address reminded me of some huge Black Crows I saw hopping around up in Ventura today. I've seen a lot of them lately all over. Maybe it's just their season. Thought it would make a good Halloween costume - haha. Apologies to the Joni onlys for whom my post may not be sufficiently stringent in J-content ;-) Kakki . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:02:43 -0400 From: vince Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone now very njc Jerry Notaro wrote: > Mary J. is the real deal. > > me too - I certainly agree although I do think her Dance For Me remix of the No More Drama album is way, way weaker than Linkin Park's Reanimation remix of Hybrid Theory - but mary J. Blige is allowed the occasional off-day for all the great things she has done. > > > np: Eminem - Goodbye to Hollywood welcome to the Light, Jerry! I am glad you have come out of the closet with your appreciation for the Em boy! You and me and Bob Muller - perhaps there are other secret Em fans out there? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:13:05 -0400 From: vince Subject: CMIARS & DED Susan McNamara wrote: > Although I LOVE > Cool Water. Willie works on that song. > Oh, Susan, I have to disagree on that - personal taste, totally subjective - that songs is so obvious to me, it cloys at me. Listening to it today, Tea Leaf prophecy was not as good as I remembered, Dancing' Clown was far better than I remembered (No, Bob, i was smoking anything), but the one song on the album that really worked for me was Beat of Black Wings. On the other hand, I found all of DED to be much better than I had remembered it as being - Joni was experimenting with different things like any great artist. I thought even Smoking Try Again - which I haven't listened to in several years - was pretty good! (No, Bob, I wasn't smoking anything.) The song almost rocks out - a lot of that album almost rocks out - if Joni had kept working that vein, I think she would have nailed it. And the lyrics to Tax Free were astounding appropriate to the current world situations. When Rod Steiger was going on and on about attacking that island country, I thought of other people going on and on about attacking other countries... NRH was my big disappointment. Other than the opening song, Night Ride Home, the rest of the album did little for me and it used to be one of my favorites. Maybe I was influenced in the past in that Night Ride Home is IMHO one of Joni's most beautiful songs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:24:43 -0400 From: vince Subject: Bob's political emails revealed NJC Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > What it DOES change is the way we move through the world, which is ultimately the only thing we > can really change anyway. > > Bob > > PS: Vince, this is as close to a political post as I'm gettin'! ;~) > Bob, it is time that I revealed the truth. Bob won't post political stuff but he emails to me about politics all the time. All the time! Most recently it was like an 8-page treatise with footnotes on why Margaret Trudeau was the best Canadian prime minister's spouse ever. Before that, it is on relative merits of Tamerlane vs Genghis Khan as dictatorial despots, which one was better. Before that it was endless emails from Bob on what the Ugaritic Texts reveal about political theory in the ancient Sumerian empire, contrasted with the political development of the ancient city state of Ur. Bob is Mr. Politician. He just covers it well... Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:30:59 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: Old composition teachers never die (NJC) it was written: > "For surly ones as loving and accepting as you Mary in response: > OK, I've seen this snipped and copied about 3 times now, and I just can't restrain myself any longer. > > Who're you callin' surly??? ;-) > We are all surly on this bus. We just got caught. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:25:59 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Linda Thompson tour/article in today's paper [NJC] Hi Richard - > She's in LA at The Troupador on Saturday night... > SF/Great American tomorrow night... I saw this for the LA date last week but recall it was already sold out or I would try to go. Thanks for the article. Someone in the medical profession who used to be on the list told me about the botox injections for the throat and I have wondered if Joni might have tried that. (I am not meaning to be disrespectful of Joni's voice). As a "middle-aged" (but still having fun ;-) woman, I have read a lot about how hormonal factors sometimes change woman singers' voice as they age and, just IMO, I think that, along with straining the voice, may have factored as much into Joni's vocal changes as the smoking. I say if the botox shot helps, go for it! Kakki > "It's not a very known thing," she said. "It happens in pregnancy and > it happened to me. And anything that doctors couldn't see 30 years > ago, they said it's all in your mind. I'm a hyper-dyper person > anyway, so somebody tells me I'm nuts, I go, 'Well, yeah, you're > probably right.' If they say, 'It's all in your head, calm down,' I'd > go, 'They must know what they're talking about.' " > "I've been to therapy," she said. "I've been to every single thing, > and the upshot of it is that I've had some Botox in my throat, which > has completely taken it away, which is hilarious. I'm still as > wrinkled as ever, but I'm the only person in the Western Hemisphere > with an unlined esophagus. I'm so fashionable. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:57:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Tipping The Velvet NJC --- colin wrote: > There is a new BBC costume drama starting tonight > set in Victirian > England about a love affair between two...... > > see if you can guess from the title. Please UK > listers don't cheat! Horses? Waiters? Horse-waiters? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:08:47 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Rod Stewart's new CD NJC > Following Joni, Carli, Linda and many others, I read that Rod Stewart will be > releasing a CD of standards, "It Had to Be You.....The Great American Song > Book". > Just thinking about this makes me want to hurl. Mark E. just finishing dinner just north of Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:23:11 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Powering Up the "Electricity" thread **I would like to discover more songs, lyric style and arrangements from other artists that dictate that influence, as obviously as I think this one does.** You're welcome, Susan...I think it's an excellent question, and I'm gonna ponder it a bit. I would also add that I've always thought Laura Nyro was RLJ's major influence and not Joni. But lyrically on LCT I think you make a good point. Bob NP: Victor, "Terrapin Station" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:22:22 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: New Y0rk Tendaberry NJC SO, i bought the aforementioned album by Laura Nyro and all I can say is that I am loving it..........thorougly!! Even though the instrumentation is much more sparsely used than on Eli and the 13th Confession, I am entranced by her singing and her musical style. I found it hard getting used to her heavily rubatic music (meaning that she doesnt rely on only one time signature for a song, but instead disregards a strict time signature), but now I am hooked and I downloaded her version of "Up on the Roof" which I never really liked before. I had heard James Tayler's version, that I thought was lame. But her take on the song is just magical and soon I'll have to go out and buy the album which it is from. But back to New York Tendaberry, my favorite tracks are Tom Cat GOodby, Save the COuntry, Mercy on Broadway, and Captain for Dark Mornings. Her voice most of all has me hooked, it is original, full of life, vibrant, chilling, all at once. Nighty nite Blair NP:Sweet Lovin' Man-The Magnetic Fields _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #417 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)