From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #412 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 7 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 412 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- october 8!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Today's Library Links: October 7 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: the war within - NJC [Susan Guzzi ] NJC Re: Covers #33 - Get yours FOR FREE!! [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] re: the war within (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: the war within (njc) [colin ] Joni only ["Laurent Olszer" ] CMIAR [Dave Cuneo ] Re: october 8!!!!! njc [Steve Polifka ] Re: Joni only [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] WAR?? [Jennymac48@aol.com] Re: All Hands on Deck (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] can I walk beside you NJC ["Marianne Rizzo" ] political action njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: can I walk beside you NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: the war within NJC ["Cynthia Vickery" ] more on the filibuster NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: political action njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: can I walk beside you NJC [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: the war within NJC [colin ] Re: Fw: the war within njc ["Erica Trudelle" ] Re: Kennedy also said this: NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Fw: Fw: All Hands on Deck: Iraq Vote Imminent - 800 number to the Capitol (NJC! ["Brenda" ] Re: Fw: the war within njc [colin ] Re: political action njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] NJC Ending War [colin ] Re: was "can I walk beside you" now War (the band) NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: Kennedy also said this: NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Tr: Joni only ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: was "can I walk beside you" now War (the band) NJC [Bob.Muller@fluo] Re: All Hands on Deck: Iraq Vote Imminent - Listen for Peace(SJC) [colin] Re: Tr: Joni only [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] now War (the band) NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] PLEASE REMEMBER YOUR NJC LABELS [KJHSF@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 04:22:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: october 8!!!!! njc dear, beautiful, impossible love of my life: les ross. i am in bed with a case of food poisoning (fever, the runs, etc). as i believe that this ailment will get worse before it gets even worse, i am sending a birthday notice one day in advance. however, as it is VERY unlucky to say happy birthday before the actual day, this is all i will say. so people remember les on the 8th, but don't even THINK of writing a BD greeting before THE day. wallyK, SICK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 03:30:41 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: October 7 On October 7 the following items were published: 1974: "Time Out" - Chicago Tribune (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/741007ct.cfm 2001: "Diana Krall a huge Joni Mitchell fan" - Vancouver Province (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/011007vp.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 03:56:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: the war within - NJC Hey it ain't over till the fat lady sings kids and I ain't singing yet! First of all, to whom it may concern.... I caught that too. Nice to know this little argument was planned just for entertainment - how mature. And now Bree wrote: This nation is prepared to present its case against the Soviet threat to peace, and our own proposals for a peaceful world, at any time and in any forum - in the Organization of American States, in the United Nations, or in any other meeting that could be useful - "WITHOUT LIMITING OUR FREEDOM OF ACTION" John Kennedy Cuban Missie Crsis .... 1962. Yes and how long exactly did that war last? Oh now I remember - there wasn't one! And that was a situation that covered a distance of 90 miles from us to them, a little bit more intense - huh? Bree wrote: Reading the newspaper today I see where this speech will give us some cold hard facts. Really, he's gonna tell us everything - honest? Come come now Bree, if you think they are opening up a top secret dossier and telling you everything, then YOU are the dreamer! Yes sensitive security reports to be unveiled by THIS administration. Surely you jest! And that goes for any administration hon. They will give you the facts they need to for their agenda. Bree writes: Nor do I believe it is for oil - ego - or because of the shaking economy ... for purposes of boosting the DOW a little. No I think there is probably a very CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. Bree ... I am trying to be serious and stern here, so please stop making me laugh. While I don't think Iraq should be absolved of any wrong doing, they are not the next piece of the puzzle in the war on terrorism. And it has always been about the oil and domination. Except it may no longer be so much about the economy. Since I have roots in the market I feel I can speak somewhat knowledgeable here. As we saw with Afghanistan, that action did not really send the market up, it's just not as defining as it once was, war that is, to the market. BUt this MAY be part of Bush's job creation plan! Bree Said: I think Bush is an honorable man ... you may not like his politics but I have no doubts about his truthfulness. his veracity I do not question. And where are your facts on this... your proof? Did you date the guy in college? What basis is there for this revelation? Just cuz!? What inside information do you have to defend his character? And how naive are you? It may be, - I just don't know how you can make that blanket statement. It's the question I get whenever I give an opinion so I thought turnabout might be fair play. Kasey says or Bree: The 'slings and arrows' started with Susan and Vince. I responded in kind. Pardon me while I rewind. No seems my initial post was a simple 'thank you' to Claudia for posting the info, minus the slings and arrows. But then you insluted and made a mockery of an innocent statement that Claud made and I seconded, concerning the way we had all come together at fest and something silly about peace, love and understanding, throw in some tolerance for good measure. I think Vince chimed in around then as well. While I disagreed with your opinion, this was really what set me off because I feel you insulted and chided my/our family here. Now I am singing. I am so tired of the confronation, and far be it from innocent lil old me to back off. Good Night All or Good Mornig now! Peace Susan Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:42:35 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: Covers #33 - Get yours FOR FREE!! <> Catherine, you're not the first to suggest this idea. The only problem is, I'd have too much trouble finding 16! ;~) Bob NP: Elmore James, "Talk To Me Baby" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 06:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: re: the war within (njc) Kasey said: As for Bush eluding to finishing what his father started, could you please direct me to where you read/saw/or heard this. I would be interested in that type of comment. I can't point to one specific source, but many. There was a clip of the current president saying about Saddam Hussein, "After all, this is the man that tried to kill my father." The video was shot at a speech this past Wednesday and was played on every news outlet, from NPR to all the major networks. I'm surprised you missed it. Oh, and I assume you meant "alluding," not "eluding." Bree said, I don't know if Saddam has the capabilities NOW to do major harm to us? The big question is do we have time to wait and find out? That question is covered by the U.S. War Powers Act and by Article 52 (I hope I remember the number correctly) of the U.N. Resolutions. The answer is, yes, we do have to wait if we are to respect the letter and spirit of both these bodies of law. It is ironic to me that the Bush administration is proposing to act outside national and international law. This is precisely what it says it wants to prevent Iraq from doing. That kind of circular logic doesn't make sense to me. Thank you to Jenny Goodspeed for the information you shared. I'd appreciate information on how Russia's oil interestes are influencing the U.S. stance on Iraq. It's still not clear to me. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:32:33 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: the war within (njc) > It is ironic to me that the Bush administration is > proposing to act outside national and international > law. This is precisely what it says it wants to prevent > Iraq from doing. That kind of circular logic doesn't > make sense to me. and it is amaxzing how a certain country is allowed to ignore the UN with impunity. > > > Thank you to Jenny Goodspeed for the information you > shared. I'd appreciate information on how Russia's oil > interestes are influencing the U.S. stance on Iraq. > It's still not clear to me. Russia also has a stake in Iraq's oil. Now that could get very interesting don't you think? > > > lots of love > Anne - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:34:25 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Joni only > From: "Sarah Cartwright" > Subject: jonionly - me again > > reading all of your posts, i still feel like a complete novice joniphile > - i would be really interested in what anyone thinks the next joni album > i should add to the collection should be - so far , it consists of LOTC, > blue, THOSL, and hejira. oh, and clouds, but i can't get into that one > too well for some reason. > Hi Sarah, Telling you which are my personal favorites is meaningless to you since you don't know my tastes. So instead I'll attempt another classification method. The great thing about Joni is that she changes style on each album. Very few artist do that. The only other one that comes to mind is Neil Young from whom you never know what to expect either. So, my personal "labeling" system (I can already hear the screams from beyond the web) is: * Up to Blue it's folk (LOTC, Clouds, FTR, etc) * Blue (which you have) is the purest, voice and style-wise. * C&S is the most mainstream/easy access * DJRD: she ventures into classical * Hejira: creative climax (after HOSL) * Mingus: she ventures into jazz * WTRF: she is in love (just got married) * S&L: live with material from Mingus, Hejira, fabulous. * DED: she's angry + ventures into (somewhat hard) rock * CMIAR, NRH: most commercial ones (duo w/ Peter Gabriel, etc), not as creative as previous ones. * TI & TTT creative juices are back, closer to Hejira in style. * BSN: 40's jazz tunes + her older folk songs revisited w/ symphonic orchestra Hope this is any help. So buy the one that suits your mood today. Makes no difference: if you believe she's the queen then you'll end up with all of them anyway. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:40:23 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: CMIAR Ciao joniphiles, Someone wrote: "At the bottom of the heap is CMIAR. This is terrible, in my opinion, and not worth the money I spent on it." For me, CMIAR is an uneven album, however I think it contains two of Joni's greatest and most brilliant songs, "Number One" and "The Beat of Black Wings". The only thing that keeps "Beat" from perfection is that chorus "Johnny Angel". If Joni had dropped that it would be perfect. I also like "Tea Leaf Prophecy" and "A Bird that Whistles". "My Secret Place" is also good. The rest I skip over when they come up. Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:42:10 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: october 8!!!!! njc Wallista! I am sending you magical fairy dust to give you a speedy recovery! (And some white light, sweetie)... Get well, and don't worry, we will remember Papa Les on the 8th, Hugs to you, Steve At 04:22 AM 10/7/02 -0300, you wrote: >dear, beautiful, impossible love of my life: les ross. > >i am in bed with a case of food poisoning (fever, the runs, etc). as i >believe that this ailment will get worse before it gets even worse, i am >sending a birthday notice one day in advance. however, as it is VERY unlucky >to say happy birthday before the actual day, this is all i will say. >so people remember les on the 8th, but don't even THINK of writing a BD >greeting before THE day. >wallyK, SICK > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:01:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni only <> No screaming here, Laurent...I always find this sort of exercise interesting. I'll add a comment or two: <<* Up to Blue it's folk (LOTC, Clouds, FTR, etc)>> Joni would of course beat you over the head with an ugly stick to hear you call her early work "folk". I don't necessarily disagree, but I'll say that FTR comes AFTER Blue, and I say that not to nit-pick but rather to distinguish it from that group. FTR is a definite bridge between the 'solitary' Joni (often playing and singing unaccompanied) of the first records and the 'collaborative' Joni where she would find other players who could fill out her musical pallette with other colors. FTR retains the confessionalism of Blue while musically paving the way for the "lite-jazz" feel of C&S. <<* DJRD: she ventures into classical>> I'd love to hear you expand on this...while she expands the 'symphonic' compositional style of "Judgement" & "Down To You", DJRD is also a further exploration of world music and giving her supporting players more freedoms to take the music to new places. Really difficult to break this one down into a brief phrase... <<* Mingus: she ventures into jazz>> I would say she did this initially with HOSL, Mingus is where she dives full in to the jazz mode without looking back or regret. Additionally, I would add Miles of Aisles as the exclamation mark ending her "singer/songwriter" period and beginning her "composer" period. Also puts new spins on some of her older songs on her first live record, showing that she's more interested in moving forward than being a time capsule. And I wouldn't lump NRH in with CMIAR...to me there's a definite line of demarcation between the false commercial attempt of CMIAR and her return to roots songwriting in NRH. Bob NP: Ben Harper, "Strawberry Fields Forever" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:30:07 EDT From: Jennymac48@aol.com Subject: WAR?? Excuse me, but could you all go somewhere else and talk about this war shit? I didn't sign up to the JONI ONLY DISCUSSION LIST to read this crap! Pisses me off big time! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:27:09 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: All Hands on Deck (NJC) Kasey wrote: > Take a deeper breath of this free air Susan, and remember it is > sarcastic patriots like me, and my family that fought wars to > bring it to you. Not to continue to fan the cyber flames of this particular argument, but I just saw the above and - as an Air Force veteran who served for more than 10 years - I have to ask: have you served in the military, Kasey? Just curious. Looking forward to your response, Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:08:34 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: can I walk beside you NJC Hi all beautiful joni people: Let me be counted in opposition to a war on Iraq. Patriotism does not equal first stike. . . We can't, for a minute, forget innocent people who suffer and die in wars. It is a lack of reverence and imagination if we forget . . . also. . . let's not forget the annihilation of the animals and the environment. I do think many people in general lack imagination. I don't want to be responsible for complying with any government who throws the first strike. . . Who ever STRIKES FIRST is the one who starts the war. Don't we try to teach our children to walk away from a fight? In my school (6th through 8th grade) the child who hits first is the one who gets in the most trouble. . . because they are the ones who started it. Does this sound too simple? I know it does. What are we teaching our kids if we, as a nation, strike first? with love Marianne "can I help you find the peace and the star, oh my friend? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:29:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: political action njc if you are inclined to take action against this war plan, here is an excerpt from another email of info a friend sent me today: >>We are going to ask you to do something very important Monday morning, something that might help stop a war. The House will vote next week giving the President unprecedented power to maker war. The Senate will probably vote the following week and then Congress will recess October 18th. We may have one chance left to stop this war and that is to support Senator Byrd from West Virginia in his plans to filibuster this power grab by the President and the conservatives around him. Senator Robert Byrd is offering to filibuster the proposal if he gets enough support from us. I implore you to stop everything and contact him with your support: senator_byrd@byrd.senate.gov or call his office at 202-224-3954.<< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 09:26:18 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: can I walk beside you NJC > Let me be counted in opposition to a war on Iraq. Thank you Marianne. Count me in too. Here I go again, throwing out my not-fully-informed opinion (although I doubt anyone here is fully informed about the proposed war) ... If nothing else (and I do think there much more to it), I believe attacking Iraq is a "quick fix" to give the American people another chance at "payback" for 9/11, and to make them feel "in control" again. Our efforts in Afghanistan certainly didn't produce much comfort. But guess what? We're NOT in control. No one appears to be. Further, if Saddam is truly such a threat, then suspend the executive orders that prohibit assassination, and remove HIM. Leave the citizens of Iraq alone. Lori NPIMH: the vision of a little garden planet (oasis in space), hurtling madly through the universe ... out of control ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:30:15 -0500 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: the war within NJC Kasey said, <> Mack replied, <> And, forgive me if I'm missing a point here, but don't "we" (the "we" comprised of those who want/support this war - not me!) also hope for *their* destruction???? Do "we" love them? Isn't it easy for our side to be noble and theirs, evil? Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:56:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: more on the filibuster NJC Dear MoveOn Member, I want to thank those of you who have responded to previous alerts on Iraq. We've had an enormous response -- over 70,000 phone calls in the last two weeks -- and we know that members of Congress are hearing that their constituents overwhelmingly oppose a war with Iraq. But since some of our elected representatives still aren't listening, and since the stakes for our democracy and world stability could not be much higher, I'm asking for your help once again. As the Senate and House rush toward a vote authorizing Bush's unilateral attack on Iraq, some heroic Senators and Representatives have spoken out against this blank check for war. Senator Robert Byrd, a moderate Democrat from West Virginia, is so angry about the haste with which we're moving to war and the unanswered questions that still remain that there's a good likelihood that he will launch a filibuster by Tuesday. In a filibuster, a Senator is allowed up to 30 hours to voice his opinion, unless 60 of his colleagues vote for the filibuster to end. The use of a filibuster indicates that a particular piece of legislation is so odious to a Senator that he or she is willing to stop all Senate business until a compromise is reached. If the majority of the members of Congress will not do their jobs, ask the hard questions, and represent the will of a very large segment of the American public, it's time for the brave few to filibuster. It's the Senate's form of civil disobedience -- a procedural monkey wrench that may be our last, best hope for substantive changes to the resolution authorizing Bush's unilateral attack on Iraq. When Senator Byrd and several of his courageous colleagues launch a filibuster, pro-war Senators will immediately try to end it. By contacting your Senators and asking them to support a filibuster against the Iraq resolution, you can play a key role in ensuring that President Bush doesn't get a blank check for war. Please take action today. The vote could come as soon as Tuesday if the filibuster is not supported. Please contact your Senators right now at: Calling the local office is more effective than calling the Washington, D.C. office. Even if your Senators have indicated that they will support the resolution, it's still worth calling -- we need to keep the pressure on. When you reach a staffer, tell him or her that you're a constituent of the Senator's. Then simply say that you hope the Senator will support a filibuster against the use of force resolution on Iraq. Please make your call today to support Senator Byrd and the other heroes of the Senate. P.S. For more information, go to our page of links and resources on Iraq at: http://www.moveon.org/infoiraq.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:00:28 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: political action njc > I implore you to stop everything and contact him with your support: > senator_byrd@byrd.senate.gov or call his office at 202-224-3954. I just stopped everything and emailed Senator Byrd. Thank you, Kate. Lori in MD ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:07:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: can I walk beside you NJC Just kinda seems ironic to me that WAR was the group that had the big hit with "Why Can't We Be Friends?" :~) (Which was recorded by Smash Mouth, who also covered "Do It Again" by Steely Dan, who recorded with Michael McDonald and Larry Carlton and others who also recorded with Joni) The above 6 degrees for JennyMac's benefit... Speaking of War, I love their double live album, especially "All Day Music" & Slippin' Into Darkness". Bob NP: Louise Taylor, "Cherry Tree" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:45:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: the war within NJC > Isn't it > easy for our side to be noble and theirs, evil? that is ahow all evil is justified, Cindy. We dehumanise the 'enemy'. Then we don't have to give a shit about children and adults being blown apart. they aren't like us so what does it matter? - -- bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 13:45:00 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re: Fw: the war within njc Victor said, I have been through hell but have never >stopped believing in dreams and love and the power of >music. Kasey said to that: >Nice sentiments but realistic, no. I believe in love, dreams, and the >power of music as well but they have nothing to do, in my opinion, with >the realities of politics or war. I disagree 100%, I think love and dreams are definitely connected with the " realities of politics and war." In fact I believe the more we separate them as a culture the deeper we are in trouble. "One of the most important things to have is compassion. We cannot buy iy in a big department store...we cannot produce it by a machine. Only by inner development, without inner peace it is completely impossible to end war and achieve world peace"- His Holiness the Dalai Lama "A good mind and good heart, warm feeling - these are vital. If you don't have such a good mind, you yourself can't function, you cannot be happy, your mate, children or neighbors and so forth won't be aooy either. And thus from nation to nation and continent to continent, everyone's mind becomes disturbed, people loose happiness. But thenn on the other hand, if you have a good mind, love, a good attitude. then the opposite is true."- His Holiness the Dalai Lama This is truth......not some wacky abstract dream....we are all part of cultivating peace as huge as it seems, as we are all part of cultivating war. Even the largest river starts like a pin prick. Erica _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Kennedy also said this: NJC - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > No..I think there is probably a > very real, CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. Clear maybe, but not currently present according to the CIA report released last week. Iraq's weapons capabilities are probably less than before the Gulf War. > I think Bush is an honorable man...you may not like > his politics but I have no doubts about his truthfulness. His veracity I do not question. I question Bush's veracity as I would any other politician's. I might question the veracity of someone who has been arrested at least 3 times and at one point denied the existence of one of those arrests even more. > I don't know if Saddam has the capabilities NOW to > do major harm to us? The big question is do we have time to wait and find > out? > Absolutely not. To question an all-out first-strike full scale war against Iraq does not mean one believes nothing should be done to keep Saddam from further developing WMDs. Jenny _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:51:25 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: All Hands on Deck: Iraq Vote Imminent - 800 number to the Capitol (NJC! On 6 Oct 2002 at 9:04, kasey simpson wrote: > Brenda, > First and foremost, I did not mean to address you personally. > Please forgive me if I have in any way offended you. I used > your word "fiercely" to make a point. It was/is hard to support > war. But once I made that choice, based on reports I had > read or heard it seems, at least on this list, that it is easy for me > and I must love war. Unfounded half truths have been reported here, > case in point Vince's' tirade on the Dashel speech, so when this 800 > number was given, I simply wanted to respond with the other side. I > have since received several post blasting my wording. You post is the > only one to contain reason. So please accept my sincere apology if I > have hurt or angered you in any way. Now as for this post, thank you > for additional information. I will read it and I do agree with every > thing you've said here. You are an intelligent, well informed person. > I have based my choice on the information I have read, which is to say > new information, true information could change my mind. Again, I > thank you for both your post, and am sorry for any antagonism sent > your way. Kasey - I appreciate your gracious apology, and must add that I was not hurt, offended or angered in any way. Just a little confused because I was attempting to stand up for you as you appear to be in the minority on this list in your support of the war. I say appear, because there are only a few people talking about it, so really for all we know there may be a lot more but they just choose not to jump into the fray. I appreciate this debate and I think it can be useful for anyone interested in engaging in it, if we keep our minds open and focus on sharing our knowledge and beliefs while refraining from attacks of any kind - personal, political, moral or otherwise - from either side of the war debate. I'm curious to know what you read that lead you to your position of support. Are there any sources you can point me to? I want to be convinced that this is the right thing, but when members of Congress say that they have not seen a plan that includes expected costs and casualties or defined objectives with proposed timeframe for occupation and exit strategy, it makes the skeptic in me ask - how can I support something when I don't know what it is I'm actually supporting? Perhaps there are reasons to support a war against Iraq, but NOT the resolution. For anyone who has not read it, it's worth checking out. After all the resolution is one thing, the war is another. Here's one AP source: http://www.theolympian.com/home/specialsections/War/20021002/12757.shtml I have more thoughts on this, but I'll hold them until after the President's speech tonight. Brenda n.p.: Secretary Rumsfeld's Pentagon Briefing ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:59:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Kennedy also said this: NJC - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: Nor do I believe it is for oil Though we cannot know for sure what the primary objective of a first strike on Iraq is for, Iraq's oil resources and production capabilities certainly play a role in the White House's foreign policy and objectives . If you are interested in some background on the issues see: http://www.rice.edu/projects/baker/Pubs/workingpapers/cfrbipp_energy/energytf.htm A paper commissioned by the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy of Rice University and the Council on Foreign Relations (of who Cheney and many of Bush's key foreign policy advisors are currently or were at one time members). Also here is a link to an interesting article from the Economist on the Council on Foreign Relations web site: http://www.cfr.org/reg_issues.php?id=2|||1 Jenny Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:13:19 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Fw: the war within njc > This is truth......not some wacky abstract dream....we are all part of > cultivating peace as huge as it seems, as we are all part of cultivating > war. Even the largest river starts like a pin prick. just the truth Erica. thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:02:15 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: political action njc senator_byrd@byrd.senate.gov or call his office at 202-224-3954.<< I called the office and was sent to a voice mailk box which was full so I could not leave a message. I sent an email instead. Thanks Kate for sharing this. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:05:42 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: War talk - njc Joniphiles - As this war thread heats up... please make sure to use the NJC tag in the subject line out of respect for the OnlyJoni's. And you may even use a "PC" tag (as someone suggested last time) out of respect for those others who are not interested. Thanks, Les NP: John Hartford "Howard Hughes Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:17:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: NJC Ending War My first suggestion is to nuke the uSA. 2nd nuke the UK 3rd nuke Russia 4th nuke China 5th nuke the middle east 6th nuke the far eat 7th nuke whoever is elft. Simple. No more war. and we will all win because all our enemies will be dead. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:04:48 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: was "can I walk beside you" now War (the band) NJC On 7 Oct 2002 at 13:07, Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > Speaking of War, I love their double live album, especially "All Day > Music" & Slippin' Into Darkness". > > Bob > Thanks for mentioning "Slippin' Into Darkness" and that live album. I have to get it immediately. That song always makes me think of my brother with his big afro and the red pick with the black power fist on the end that he used to stick in it while he did any number of things, including flipping through his crates of records. He's seven years older than me and at that time I thought he was the coolest dude alive. He still is ; ) Brenda n.p.: Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia on CSPAN - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 14:12:06 -0400 From: Claud9 Subject: RE: All Hands on Deck: Iraq Vote Imminent - Listen for Peace (SJC) It is my observation that some find war as a solution to conflict much more promising and easier to envision than peace. It saddens me immensely, because war means suffering to all involved those who want the war and those who don't. The guilty and the innocent. Being from Germany, I having close ties to a recent history full of blood shed, evil, sheer stupidity, suffering and destruction. My grandmother's life was directly affected by two wars, (as was my mother's, as was mine) I remember her stories. In my mind, war has just always been a bad idea all the way around. War divides. War makes us choose sides. Each side is convinced of its cause, convinced by the "rightness" of its cause. As "average" people, we never have all the information, the oversight over all the players involved, all the hidden agendas, the strategies, the ripple effects, the consequences in history. It is human nature and conditioning to categorise into good and bad. Every "right" needs a "wrong" to define itself. (Joni's Borderline springs to mind. "Every bristling shaft of pride, church or nation, team or tribe. Every notion we subscribe to is just a borderline. Good or bad we think we know, as if thinking makes things so! All convictions grow along a borderline") When it comes to politics, I try to remember that my knowledge is limited. Being convinced of rightness requires being convinced that the available knowledge is basis enough for feeling right about something, or that the interpretation of that knowledge is correct, etc.... This is just far too slippery for me when it comes to the complexities of politics and basically irrelevant to my believes which guide me through this maze. Some of those believes are: the destruction of human life needs to be avoided at all times. Pursuing peace is worthy of my energy and support, war is not. And thirdly, I try to remember to speak from my heart for what I truly want, not what I believe is "achievable" or "factually right". In this case, with a renewed threat of war at our doorsteps, what I can and want to support are the efforts for a peaceful resolution and of building a world community that prefers peace over war and will choose accordingly. It is the only approach to peace worth striving for. Yes, sometimes peace needs to be enforced, because of those who do not believe in those values and threaten to destroy others, but the solutions of enforcement sought can - as our first priority- be peaceful, as our second priority- be defensive. Only as a measure of last defence, with the approval of the world community, should war even be considered as an option of defence. In the case of Bush, I hear him speak of wanting to secure peace while rushing to pursue it with war -- without the support of the world community. To me, this approach seems flawed , dangerous and righteous on a very basic level. It goes against what I can support. I believe that in conflict situations, be it personal or global, communication is the key. We must be willing to listen to one another. Listening without giving up listening as soon as we hear something that we don't understand, or dislike, or don't want to hear. We need to want to understand how we hurt one another in order to stop doing so. Compassion for the suffering of others can and must lead the way. Only then can we hope to understand the actions of others and find a way to stop the cycle of violence and suffering. I did not mean to make a political statement "against" others when I posted the information about the "Listen for Peace" proposal and the 800 number to the Capitol. I simply wanted to share the information with those who might feel the same. I was prepared for some comments. Of course those aligned with my own felt good, those opposed felt uncomfortable. But I was glad for the communication that followed. It helps grow an understanding of opinions and positions. We all have valuable insights to contribute. The JMDL community is a safe place to share and be different. Let's continue to do so in kindness, with compassion, and without judgement. Peace, Claudia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:20:48 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Tr: Joni only > < beyond the web) is:>> > > No screaming here, Laurent...I always find this sort of exercise > interesting. I'll add a comment or two: > > <<* Up to Blue it's folk (LOTC, Clouds, FTR, etc)>> > > Joni would of course beat you over the head with an ugly stick to hear you > call her early work "folk". I don't necessarily disagree, but I'll say that > FTR comes AFTER Blue, and I say that not to nit-pick but rather to > distinguish it from that group. FTR is a definite bridge between the > 'solitary' Joni (often playing and singing unaccompanied) of the first > records and the 'collaborative' Joni where she would find other players who > could fill out her musical pallette with other colors. FTR retains the > confessionalism of Blue while musically paving the way for the "lite-jazz" > feel of C&S. > MY MISTAKE, MEA CULPA; ALTHOUGH FOR ME FTR DOES NOT HAVE THE STRENGTH OF BLUE, SO I TEND TO LUMP IT WITH THE 1ST PERIOD. > <<* DJRD: she ventures into classical>> > > I'd love to hear you expand on this...while she expands the 'symphonic' > compositional style of "Judgement" & "Down To You", DJRD is also a further > exploration of world music and giving her supporting players more freedoms > to take the music to new places. Really difficult to break this one down > into a brief phrase... > OF COURSE YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THE WORLD ASPECT, MAYBE EVEN SOME JAZZ TOO. BUT FOR SOMEONE WHO LISTENS TO IT FOR THE 1ST TIME THE REALLY STRIKINGLY DIFFERENT PIECE IS THE CLASSICAL PAPRIKA PLAINS. WHICH WHEN I FIRST GOT THE ALBUM IN 77 FILLED UP A COMPLETE VINYL SIDE. > <<* Mingus: she ventures into jazz>> > > I would say she did this initially with HOSL, Mingus is where she dives > full in to the jazz mode without looking back or regret. > A MASTERPIECE IN ITS OWN RIGHT. ALSO THE KEY ALBUM WHICH "EXCOMMUNICATED" HER FROM THE FOLK ROCK AND THE JAZZ COMMUNITY. BRAVE AND SINCERE MOVE. ALWAYS LOVED IT. > Additionally, I would add Miles of Aisles as the exclamation mark ending > her "singer/songwriter" period and beginning her "composer" period. Also > puts new spins on some of her older songs on her first live record, showing > that she's more interested in moving forward than being a time capsule. > > And I wouldn't lump NRH in with CMIAR...to me there's a definite line of > demarcation between the false commercial attempt of CMIAR and her return to > roots songwriting in NRH. > TRUE, ALTHOUGH I STILL FEEL SHE DID A BETTER JOB AT SONGWRITING WITH THE FOLLOWING 2 ALBUMS. THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENTS BOB, MINE WAS A ROUGH SKETCH DURING LUNCH BREAK, NO MORE. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 11:48:22 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Kennedy also said this: NJC Jenny offered: > Though we cannot know for sure what the primary > objective of a first strike on Iraq is for, Iraq's oil > resources and production capabilities certainly play a > role in the White House's foreign policy and > objectives . Of course they do. Does anyone really think we went to war against Iraq in '91 because we gave a rat's ass that Iraqi soldiers were murdering the Kuwaiti people? It was all about oil, which fuels our economy (no pun intended, but there it is), which affects our freedom, yada yada yada, blah blah blah. Lori, disgusted with the Administration ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 15:01:18 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Tr: Joni only Laurent said: FOR ME FTR DOES NOT HAVE THE STRENGTH OF BLUE, SO I TEND TO LUMP IT WITH THE 1ST PERIOD Well, I never thought that I would see someone actually post what is my exact opinion too - I have been too afraid of the FTR lovers hunting me down like a varmint and beating me to death and leaving rose petals on my dead corpse. Especially when I add that FTR didn't make much of an impression on me at all when it came out (I love it now!) because Blue was so strong. I suppose how ever present Blue is in m y mind and regards was tipped off when I won the Covers contest (finally!!!!) with my Blue/Blue guess - although truth be known, in football season, I always have the University of Michigan (as in M! Go Blue!) on my mind and that is perhaps why my Covers guess was Blue/Blue. Vince NPIMH: Let's Go Blue! Laurent: Harvest Moon was so perfect at the wedding reception - harvest time is just beginning here too and no song could have been more perfect in every way and I will always be indebted to you for your musical assist! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:39:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: was "can I walk beside you" now War (the band) NJC <> That goes for me too! I have the vinyl, but haven't upgraded it to cd. I wonder if the whole double LP fits on 1 cd, a lot of them do. I just lucked into that one...I remember the day well. I was at my friend Smitty's house (his parent's house actually), and when he took a call from his girlfriend I pulled the LP off the shelf and put it on his GE Wildcat stereo. I borrowed it from him that night, put it on tape, and about wore that tape out! I later picked up the double LP used, and hopefully still have it! Anyway, a great live album! Slippin' runs about 18 minutes and "Get Down" over 20! And I've always loved harmonica and Lee Oskar was one of the best imo. And Cisco Kid is there as well, so how can ya miss? :~) Bob NP: Wesley Willis, "Robin Miramontez" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:10:00 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: All Hands on Deck: Iraq Vote Imminent - Listen for Peace(SJC) Claudia-a wonderful, open and honest post. thank you. you are not alone in your way of thinking. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 15:56:51 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Tr: Joni only <> That's a good point - PP is definitely in a class by itself. It was more than I could digest for a LONG time. Very intense & beautiful & lots of other things. <> No argument from me on that, at least with TI. TTT is comparable with NRH for me - when it's good it's very very good, and when it's not it's horrid. <> I liked your post a lot...some nice points to build on. Nothing wrong with submitting a rough sketch and letting other folks fine-tune it and/or add thoughts. That's the purpose of this list, I think. But why do you feel that YOU HAVE TO SHOUT? I CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE! ;~) Bob NP: Billy Preston, "Outaspace" (makes me feel like shaking my boo-tay!) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:13:16 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: now War (the band) NJC Muller writes: << <> >> Synchro alert! I have been singing that song for the past week, maybe because of the current world situation . . . - --BOB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:33:33 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: PLEASE REMEMBER YOUR NJC LABELS Hi Folks- A gentle reminder about the NJC tags is in order. I'm not saying that the discussion list be limited in it's scope of topics, however we need to respect the rights of members who choose this to be a resource for Joni-only information. It is unfair to circumvent this policy because someone has decided that non-Joni information, be it impending war, or politics, or smoking, or whatever, needs to reach even those members who wish to use this resource for Joni discussion only. Intentional omission of the NJC tag because you wish to disseminate information about what you deem important is breaking the rules, folks. Ken ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #412 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)