From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #385 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, September 22 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 385 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: September 21 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: "Produced by Joni Mitchell" [Richard Goldman ] Re: CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Fw: new to list NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: produced by Joni Mitchell [SMC1254@aol.com] Re: James Taylor (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: James Taylor (njc) ["mack watson-bush" ] new kid/njc ["kasey simpson" ] Patricia Barber (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] re: revisiting dog eat dog ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: James Taylor (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] new Bonnie Raitt njc ["Mark or Travis" ] cd shopping njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: James Taylor (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: James Taylor (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] The joy and frustration of supporting obscure singer-songwriters njc (long) [AzeemAK@aol] Re: The joy and frustration of supporting obscure singer-songwriters njc (long) [SCJoniGuy] Re: Continents - NJC ["gene mock" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #274 [StDoherty@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 03:13:45 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: September 21 On September 21 the following items were published: 1966: "Folksongs" - Variety (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/660921v.cfm 1974: "By the time we got through Neasden..." - Sounds (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740921s.cfm 1974: "Wembley Frolics" - Disc Magazine (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740921dm.cfm 1998: "Joni at The Old Town School of Folk Music" - Chicago Tribune (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980921ct.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:06:06 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT A lil while back i posted saying that DJRD was better on vinyl than cd....Well i think im gonna have to retract that statement...Dont get me wrong it sounds great on vinyl but for some reason the other day listening to the cd I feel you get a bettre feel of what Joni wanted us to hear.. I realize this album gets thrown to the wayside because joni needed to fulfill a contract but i honestly believe that when its all said and done it will go down as one of her very best and most innovated works...can you tell i dig it alot?? Another quick side bar....my friends new boyfriend and I were talkin about Joni the other day and he referred to "Joni's black music and Joni's white music" have any of you heard that before...he was sayin how Hejira was her first black album and how Joni gets more "props" from the african american community than from white folks...especially for her 80s stuff...ive never heard that before hope all are havin a great weekend***kev*** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 01:40:05 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: "Produced by Joni Mitchell" At 3:00 AM -0400 9/21/02, JMDL Digest wrote: > >Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 01:14:58 -0400 >From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" >Subject: "Produced by Joni Mitchell" > >In many interviews, she's said that she "doesn't know what the word means". >Sometimes she says that she generally doesn't work with "outside" producers >'cause she doesn't "want someone ELSE'S brush strokes" on her canvas. > >That said, I wouldn't be the first person to notice that she gave some >people a great amount of creative freedom to move around within her canvas. >Jaco for example at the very begining of "Sweet Sucker Dance". Just before >her vocal starts, he put this figure in that practically steps on her. Most >people wouldn't have left that in there but it really builds tension in a >jazz way. There's no way (in my opinion anyway) that a rock bassist like >John Entwistle would have stepped into that particular space. It says >oceans about Joni's thirst to collaborate in those days, and about the fact >that she had some really, really wonderful players with her. > >Maybe there's chapter to be written called "Joni's sidemen". Hmmmmm. >Stills, jt, Shorter, Erskine, Blade, Hancock, Jaco, Larry, shit! That's >just for starters! > >Lama Brilliant collaboration, it seems to me. Brilliant in the direction of genius. Richard in San Francisco n.p. Doug Echols spinning live on WPKN-FM, 89.5 FM in Bridgeport, CT, http://www.wpkn.org live feed... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:37:53 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re; america NJC Patrick wrote (to wally) >>i think you did accidentally make a misstatement about americo (i've always seen it spelled amerigo) vespucci. his own voyages may have only been to south america, but the name "america" does come from his name, because he was the navigator on columbus' first voyage, which landed in the Caribbean<< to which mike now adds and Stevie Wonder wrote *Guide of a ship, on the first Columbus trip was a brown man* although Stevie names him as Pedro Alonzo Nino. If a navigator is a guide, as I believe is the case, then was Vespucci or Alonzo the guide. And if Alonzo was brown (sounds Spanish to me) what colour was Vespucci? Eduardo Galeano mentions Vespucci only twice in his 'Memory of Fire' trilogy. The quote is as follows: The ocean will not be named the Sea of Columbus; nor will the new world bear his name, but that of his Florentine friend Amerigo Vespucci, navigator and pilot master. But it was Columbus who found dazzling color that didn't exist in the European rainbow. Blind, he dies without seeing it. mike in barcelona, from where Columbus started his journey to the 'new world' NP Stevie Wonder. Black Man - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:13:22 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: CLARIFY DJRD COMMENT **A lil while back i posted saying that DJRD was better on vinyl than cd....Well i think im gonna have to retract that statement...** Well, you can't lose either way, Kev, that's for sure. I find that DJRD is not a cd I put on as background. It always seems to demand my full attention. With the LP, it was sometimes nice to be able to break from each side, merely to digest it all - especially PP. With the cd, it all keeps coming which is pretty awesome as well. Oh yeah, I dig it a lot too! :~) Bob NP: Joni, "DED", Rock Master Class ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 08:54:50 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Fw: new to list NJC Hi Kasey!! >Maybe one >day we'll meet. Yeah...Great!! How long have you been a fan of JM? Oh....since a babe....1976.....been in Joniland ever since. I have her complete catalog....videos..and I collect Joni stuff as well as the Beatles. She is my all-time favorite singer/songwriters. As much as I love the Beatles.....there were four of them and only one Joni. And in her case two heads *are not* better than one. (a line from Twisted off Court & Spark.....only she sings... two heads ARE better than one) Do you like Skyline? I do....but my favorite is Gold Star Chili. For most of the people on the list don't know this: Cincinnati is famous for it's chile.....their three-ways and four-ways and yes...FIVE-WAYS. FIVE-WAYS:chile,spaghetti,cheese,beans,onions. I have to have a fix at least once a week. Kasey so you don't get yelled at by a lister....always remember to put NJC in the subject line. Now....if contains joni info...well you don't need to put it. OR a little joni info...in the subject line you would put SJC. (some Joni content). Also, when replying to someones post.. be sure to remove anything in the post that is not pertinent to what you want to discuss. That way people don't have to reread something they have already read and is not relevant to what you want to point out or comment on...discuss etc... I thought I would tell you this so you would not get your feelings hurt and then make you shy about posting. And not to worry we have all forgotten the NJC....believe me...you will not be the first nor the last of forget. ;-) Later... Bree Kasey ___________________________________________________________ >Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.comGet >more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:00:52 EDT From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: Re: produced by Joni Mitchell I agree wholeheartedly agree with you except I don't see James Taylor in that group. I wonder what Join thinks of his music. I find him so so boring. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:36:56 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: James Taylor (njc) > I agree wholeheartedly agree with you except I don't see James Taylor in that > group. > I wonder what Join thinks of his music. I find him so so boring. > Stephen I wasn't terribly interested in JT either until I saw him live in Chapel Hill in 1991. He totally won me over, in essence, probably making more of a dramatic impression on me than anyone else I ever saw live. I didn't see him live again until 2000 at the Fox Theatre in Atlanta. In some ways, I think his music is similiar to Nick Drake, with stronger vocal ability. Its so personal and deceptively simple yet if you allow yourself to be drawn in, you see how warm and endlessly complex it really is. But I think you really need to see him in person to fully appreciate his music. Did anyone else ever have an experience like that, where you weren't really that interested in someone's music and then you saw them live and it completely changed your perspective? Victor, wondering what the life span of a wasp is as the same one has been passively crawling around the window for two days now - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 10:14:37 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: James Taylor (njc) Victor wrote: deceptively simple yet if you allow yourself to be > drawn in, you see how warm and endlessly complex it really is. But I think > you really need to see him in person to fully appreciate his music. Always liked his music. The single released "up on the roof" captivated me (the version on the album itself is different and not quite as good) and thus I bought the album. It, like the other three I have, didn't make a great first impression but over time I wouldn't give any of them up. As for the wasp, not long if it cannot get outside. I always trap non-killer spiders (black widows and recluses) and let them outside as I do with wasps of any kind except yellow jackets. The latter sting for no reason and have to go, though it hurts me to do it. Writing of hurting, just killed three roosters (as I was stung multiple times by the fire ants which have made it to my house) which now have to be cut up and prepared, or frozen. But yum, will have a great lunch. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:35:19 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: new kid/njc Bree, Thanks for starting me out on the right foot here. I will save your post and refer back to it for awhile. My friend is also sending me the Blue CD. Do you have this one? What are some of your favorite tracks? Oh, and I forgot to mention, the other two things I love about Cincinnati; LaRosa, and Greaters. I'm thinking I may have to make a trip there soon:) If I do I'll let you know. Again Thanks, Kasey Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:57:59 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Patricia Barber (SJC) I just read a review on jazz musician Patricia Barber's new CD "Verse". I've heard people mention her before, but I'll have to give a listen to this one. "In a loose way" she says "VERSE is a Patricia Barber homage to Joni Mitchell" -the Joni Mitchell of 1976's "Hejira", Barber's favorite album from the legendary Canadian folksinger. I'm not sure how her music is, but she's got great taste! Happy Weekend, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:54:33 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: re: revisiting dog eat dog Owen suggested that Joni redo the songs of "Dog Eat Dog" without... uhmmm.... how do I say this delicately...... without Thomas Dolby's overbearing, damnable, ham fisted production touches this time. :) (I couldn't figure out how to say it delicately.) Anyway, this sounds like a good idea but asking Our Lady of Duality to revisit old material was (until recently, ahem!) unlikely. It might be a neat project for Henning/Christina or our ex-patriot and studio-meister, Marcel, to tackle. The thing is though, how many among the general public would want to hear covers of an album that most disliked to begin with? Lama np: the radio, playing a (new?) Bonnie Raitt track that sounds like it came right off of Paul Simon's "Graceland", which Lama thinks is also a pretty good idea. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:34:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Bristols, njc In addition to those nicknames already noted by my esteemed colleagues, I'll add that my mother used the term "bazooms". :) In middle America (ha!) we also called uhmmm..... usually noticeable ones "cannons" or "bazookas". Don't know why artillery was the association. Also "rack", or "a nice _set_." I imagine that "boobs" and "boobies" were already in the mix. Is someone compiling a list? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:35:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: James Taylor (njc) > Did anyone else ever have an experience like that, where you weren't really > that interested in someone's music and then you saw them live and it > completely changed your perspective? Rickie Lee Jones last summer. Fell completely in love with her after disliking her & pretty much ignoring her for years. Now after seeing her perform live I can't get enough of her. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:47:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: new Bonnie Raitt njc > np: the radio, playing a (new?) Bonnie Raitt track that sounds like it came > right off of Paul Simon's "Graceland", which Lama thinks is also a pretty > good idea. > Must be 'Hear Me Lord' from the new one. I'm really getting into this cd. Does anyone know who Jude Johnstone is? The last track 'Wounded Heart' was written by him and it's a gorgeous, heart-wrenching song. There was some talk about Bonnie's 'earthy' side. 'Gnawin' On It' is a prime example of that. 'Silver Lining' is highly recommended. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 12:00:58 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: cd shopping njc Walked to Tower Records on Friday at lunch and was delighted to find they had their WEA cds on sale. Picked up three Emmylou Harris cds. 'Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town' which I have had on vinyl for years plus 'Elite Hotel' and 'Cowgirl's Prayer' which I have never owned. All are stellar efforts from Emmylou. Judging from the lyrics of 'Prayer in Open D', 1993 must not have been a great year for Emmylou either. She really writes beautifully. I hope she does more of it. The other cd I bought was Judy Collins' 'Who Knows Where the Time Goes'. More and more I am struck by the incredible emotional depth that Judy reaches in her interpretations. And this one has her own beautiful song 'My Father' on it. I am more & more impressed by Judy's writing ability as well. I saw a new Jane Monheit cd at Tower but did not buy it. One of the tracks listed was 'Since You've Asked'. Also 'Love Has No Pride'. It will be interesting to see what Jane does with these. I'm glad she continues to keep her repertoire fairly eclectic. It seems that some of the music of the 60s and 70s is gradually infiltrating the realm of 'standards'. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:54:54 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: James Taylor (njc) **Did anyone else ever have an experience like that, where you weren't really that interested in someone's music and then you saw them live and it completely changed your perspective?** I was always kind of lukewarm about Richard Thompson (though I thought Mock Tudor was incredible), but when I saw him live he was incredible! He definitely made me a believer. And to add to the pleasure, I was introduced to singer-songwriter Amy Correia, who also was fabulous and who is probably working on a new one, I hopes! Bob NP: Andy Summers, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:54:51 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: James Taylor (njc) >**Did anyone else ever have an experience like that, where you weren't >really >that interested in someone's music and then you saw them live and it >completely changed your perspective?** Joni..1976. I guess you could say it changed my perspective.... (big, big understatement) Bree >Bob > >NP: Andy Summers, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:34:40 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The joy and frustration of supporting obscure singer-songwriters njc (long) Sorry about the tremendously laboured title, folks. That sub-editing job I went for, they never return my calls... I went to a wonderful gig tonight, one that also left me quite gloomy in one respect. Robin Holcomb was playing London's Purcell Room, a small-ish but quite prestigious London venue. It was part of a week-long festival called The Song's The Thing, which, as the name implies, celebrates songwriters across a wide range of styles. Among the acts featured this year are Lee Hazelwood, Riuichi Sakamoto, Erland Oye (from Kings of Convenience) and Kirsty MacColl (a big memorial concert on Monday). Robin Holcomb was paired with Jeb Loy Nichols; a less starry brace of performers you could not dream up without a great deal of effort, and to expect them to fill a 360-seat venue proved sadly over-optimistic. I don't suppose they'd register much more than a blip on the radar even in their home country (America - um, or should that be the USA...) - here, there were between 50 and 60 people in the place. Mind you, those few people were as attentive as any audience I can remember. You could have heard a feather drop while she was playing, and the applause was enthusiastic. She came on with a smile and a curtsy, told us that she was recovering from a nasty cold, and then proceeded to charm the pants off us for three quarters of an hour or so. Her voice is an acquired taste, no question, but to me she sang beautifully tonight in her quirky way. Her lyrics are outstanding; concise, elliptical, sometimes mysterious, sometimes poignant. Come to think of it, the same adjectives apply to her tunes! And her musicianship is pretty special: this is a woman who had been on the modern jazz scene for years as a composer and pianist, keeping company with Wayne Horvitz, Bill Frisell, Bobby Previte and so on. Her songs are very unusually constructed, with shades of jazz, folk, Minimalism and American neo-classical all discernible. In short, Robin Holcomb is a unique artist. This concert will get a short review in one of the broadsheets if it is VERY lucky, and otherwise will pass without a murmur. This is what makes me slightly gloomy. Of course, all of us on this list have our favourite obscure performers, and I'm sure we all gnash our teeth at the injustice of how they struggle to reach an audience and scratch a living, while talentless and passionless mannequins clean up at the bank and the back-room boys and girls plot the next steps in the quest to excise the soul from music. Still, next to all the frustration, I have the joy of re-discovering all the time that there is great music and great songs being written and that, despite all the odds, some of it DOES actually get out into the world. And this list has been responsible for introducing me to some of it, for which I'm extremely grateful. I hope that Joni's imminent offering is part of the solution! Personally, I'm awaiting it with a certain amount of trepidation (I'm not the only one, I'll bet), not having enjoyed BSN beyond the first listen, and seriously doubting that I'll enjoy this one any more. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:51:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The joy and frustration of supporting obscure singer-songwriters njc (long) **Mind you, those few people were as attentive as any audience I can remember. ** That IS the benefit of going to a show like that, Azeem. The folks that are all are all there to see & hear the artist, and they are respectful and attentive. You don't have people gabbing or otherwise disrupting the performance. When I saw Glenn Tillbrook here last year, the crowd was small but very much into it, and so was Glenn. He jumped off the stage, led us all around the bar, even invited a couple folks to join him onstage for a song. I would much rather spend my money and time on a show of this nature than go to basketball arenas to deal with people who are just there to see & be seen. Thanks for your report - I always enjoy reading your reviews. Bob NP: Ray Brown, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 21:03:57 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Continents - NJC hello all, and thanks for all the joni fest info, pics, and sounds. anyway there may well be 5 continents and 7 seas but we are all one earth. what happens to one continent or one sea will affect us all. wish there was some way we could spread some joni-dust about. everyone would be for the better. take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dsk" To: "hell" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:50 PM Subject: Re: Continents - NJC > hell wrote: > > > > Kate wrote: > > > > > hell thanks for all that info, that is so interesting! > > > > I'm glad someone liked it! It is interesting though. > > I think so too! Thanks, Hell, for going back to the memory banks and > books and writing all that out. And the site you mentioned is great -- I > love the picture of that marbled bowling ball. It is so pure looking... > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 00:39:46 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #274 In a message dated 9/21/2002 3:01:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Does anyone else agree that it would be a great (and not too time-consuming > or expensive) project for Joni to return to 'Dog Eat Dog' and, keeping the > original vocals, remaster it in a more timeless form? Just acoustic piano > and guitar on some of those songs would be delicious! I think DED would be > judged a lot more fairly were it more in keeping with the production of her > other work - I truly believe they're great songs but a lot of people cant > listen to them because of how they sound. I often sing them just myself and > piano - songs like 'the Three Great Stimulants' and 'Impossible Dreamer' > sound great this way. Joni probably wouldnt want to return to a finished > project, on the other hand she certainly seems to feel it deeply when one > of > her 'babies' doesnt get a fair run... well, its a shame she doesn't read > the > list (not that she'd listen to me Im sure!)! > Enough already. Dog Eat Dog's a fine recording without any revisitng. The songs' arrangements are fine. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #385 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)