From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #383 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, September 20 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 383 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: americas NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Today's Library Links: September 20 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Goldie covered "Carey" [Julius Raymond ] Travelouge [Cactustree78@aol.com] NJC Isthmus [vince ] Re: Goldie covered "Carey" [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Breasteses NJC [colin ] "Produced by Joni Mitchell" [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Goldie covered "Carey" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chonies NJC? ["Mike Pritchard" ] The RS Chart [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: chonies NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Chonies NJC? [AzeemAK@aol.com] Termination of Contract/Special Status, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Travelogue ["Laurent Olszer" ] americas, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Chonies NJC? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Chonies NJC? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] america, america [Yael Harlap ] apologies [Yael Harlap ] still america NJC [Yael Harlap ] chortle!! NJC [Yael Harlap ] Re: Chonies NJC? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: chortle!! NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: tits NJC ["Heather" ] RE: tits NJC ["Heather" ] RE: NJC Isthmus ["Heather" ] RE: More Anne News (NJC) ["Heather" ] Re: Travelogue Question ["Amelio Alamo" ] Re: Chonies NJC? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chonies NJC? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chonies NJC? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Bitch & Animal NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chonies NJC? ["Victor Johnson" ] Fw: Non-Violence, njc ["kasey simpson" ] Dog Eat Dog Revisited and Don't Look Now [owen.duff@ntlworld.com (by way ] re: Travelogue question ["mia ortlieb" ] RE: chonies NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: tits NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] This one really cracks me up ["Kate Bennett" ] Continents - NJC (long.....winded!) ["Kate Bennett" ] Bristols (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] RE: tits NJC ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Dog Eat Dog Revisited and Don't Look Now ["Amelio Alamo" ] America [was tits/america/vespucio] NJC [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:02:34 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: americas NJC >>Wally, what were you taught? What were people elsewhere taught?<< Five continents (therefore 5 Olympic Rings) and Seven Seas. The continents, as everyone knows, are Asia, America, Europe, Antarctica, and Australasia. I have no comments about the incontinents. There are four oceans, namely, the Pacific, the Atlantic, the Indian, and the Arctic Ocean. Add the South China Sea, and two more that I can't remember and there ya go; Seven Seas. Easy. Mike, in the corner with a dunce's cap. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:16:15 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: September 20 On September 20 the following items were published: 1979: "Joni Mitchell: A Reaffirmation" - Los Angeles Commerce Tribune (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790920lact.cfm 1996: "Mitchell enters hall of fame" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/960920ssp.cfm 1996: "New Clubs Help Spread Folk Music Revival" - Detroit Free Press (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/960920dfp.cfm 1998: "Ani DiFranco Chats With the Iconic Joni Mitchell" - Los Angeles Times (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980920lat.cfm 2001: "Harbourfront holds genius up to the light" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/010920tgam.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:36:15 -0700 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Goldie covered "Carey" I'm watching Jay Leno's Tonight Show and one of the guests is Goldie Hawn. Conversation turns to discussion of the early days of her career, when she was a dancer and erstwhile singer. It's a set-up though, as Jay soon surprises her by pulling out an album Goldie recorded, circa 1971. He goes on to say how he was gonna play some of it on the show to embarrass her, but that he actually found it pretty good. He said he chose his favorite track from the album to play tonight, that Joni Mitchell song, "Carey." Then he plays the song... Hmmm. She infused it with a bit of a country groove. Not too shabby. You go, Goldie. Hawn went on to tell the story of how she used to sing "Carey" at bedtime to her son, Wyatt, when he was around 3.. And how he had learned all the lyrics and sang along. And how he wanted to know what the lyrics "oh, you're a mean old daddy but I like you" meant. It was a cute story. I've always thought Goldie was a sweetheart. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know she's an ardent admirer of Joni, like me. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:09:56 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: Travelouge What song would I switch or add...Im not sure what I would replace but Id like to see Night Ride Home on there and Im also disappointed that Down To You isn't there...Im lookin forward to The Dawntreader it'll be interesting how she reinterprets that song hope all are doin well...peace and love ***kev*** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:51:05 -0400 From: vince Subject: NJC Isthmus Catherine McKay wrote: > At least N and S Amer have > this little peninsula thing dividing them. Wouldn't that be an isthmus connecting them - isthmus being s lovely word no one ever uses in daily conversation? A peninsula, lovely word, is what Michigan is. Florida is also a peninsula, except we can manage an election and count the votes in Michigan. And, in Michigan, we don't detain three medical students of Middle Eastern heritage and hold them in detention and destroy all their belongings while the bomb sniffing dogs sniff through it all because they are Middle Eastern and thus, terrorists, because a lady in Georgia at a truck stop says so, which causes the medical students to lose their jobs because the Florida hospital is now afraid to have there terrorists on their staff... we don't do that in Michigan! Vince, just a bridge away from Canada but a continent, and a historical era, away from Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 06:27:12 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie covered "Carey" In a message dated 20/09/2002 08:36:52 GMT Daylight Time, jrmills@pacbell.net writes: > I'm watching Jay Leno's Tonight Show and one of the guests is Goldie Hawn. > Conversation turns to discussion of the early days of her career, when she > was a dancer and erstwhile singer. > > When I saw the heading of this post, I did a double-take: what, Goldie, the hard man of UK drum 'n' bass, covering a sweet li'l song like "Carey"?? That would be as unlikely a Joni cover as I could imagine. What next? Limp Bizkit covering "Michael From Mountains"? Britney Spears with her unique version of "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay"?? Goldie Hawn, though, OK, I can breathe again... Azeem in London NP: Mingus - Haven't listened for ages, sounds terrific. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:44:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Breasteses NJC > This is an > > abbreviation for Bristol Cities, which is rhyming > > slang for - you see where > > this is going don't you? > > Rhyming slang just has to be the weirdest thing anyone > ever dreamed up. Trust the English! Rhyming slang is a Cockney thing(East London). Having a J. Arthur? Guess what that means! J. Arhtur Rank being the full name. Syrup of figs? Wig. There are loads. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 06:39:16 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: "Produced by Joni Mitchell" I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but I can't remember it: why do Joni's albums not bear the credit "Produced by Joni Mitchell"? I haven't checked back through all of them, but certainly there's no producer credit on Mingus, nor on Hejira - even though the sleeve of Mingus credits Joni and two others for mixing the album. Not like our Joan to be so coy, and she'd rightly have been proud of such a credit, it being virtually unheard-of at the time for a female artist to be producing her own records. Blimey, posting two JC items in a row - must be a record. Speaking of which, if anyone is curious about Mingus (the album) and has a decent record player, I'd recommend the original vinyl version, if you can find it, as you can enjoy the lovely paintings in all their glory. The same goes for For The Roses, but for different reasons, nudge nudge :-) Azeem in London, just having been amazed again by The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay. Over to Side 2... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:27:59 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Goldie covered "Carey" **Hmmm. She infused it with a bit of a country groove. Not too shabby. You go, Goldie. ** I only cringe when she CLEARLY sings "Mantle Of The Moon", but because she's Goldie and I've had a crush since she was bikini dancing on Laugh-In, I let it slide. Bob NP: Jane Michel, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:24:59 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? >>kate said>>abused? taken advantage of? that girl who pulled up her jacket to show the prez her chonies?<< mike saidChonies? As in Chony Mitchell? >>kate, flat out lying in the gutter now...<< mike, asking kate to move over and make room for me too. Kate followed up with<< pronounced cho (long o) nies (rhymes with bees) >> Bob replied >>Like "Joni's?" << Hey Bob, Ain't you paying attention? I already have copyright on this joke (see above), and the website (choniemitchell.com) will be online soon. Content as yet undecided but suggestions welcome. BTW, and apropos of nothing, I agree with you about Princess Margaret, except to say that she's not the only racist in the British Royal Family. You know there must be more...mike in barcelonaNP Elvis Costello - Really Mystified - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:34:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The RS Chart **After studying it for awhile, I really didn't see what was so insulting to Joni. It only ties > her romantically to Crosby, Nash, and Taylor, which is no > big secret. The > chart is just stupid. I can't believe RS allowed such a juvenile piece into > > their magazine.** > Well, RS CAN be pretty juvenile...but I agree with you, this chart is no big deal & doesn't spill any dirt that wasn't commonly known. Methinks Joni's ire with RS was cumulative from the chart + being dubbed "Queen of El-Lay" + "Old Lady of the Year". She felt like she was being judged in one way while the rock 'n roll men were allowed/expected to buzz from flower to flower. And of course, she was right on. Bob NP: Lisa Yves, "Twisted" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:34:18 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: chonies NJC Google has 272 entries on this topic. Here's a link which gives the word as 'chicano' slang for 'undies'. http://www.jibaros.com/chonies.htm mike, seeking medical help. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:37:17 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? In a message dated 20/09/2002 12:29:15 GMT Daylight Time, ink08@hotmail.com writes: > BTW, and apropos > of nothing, I agree with you about Princess Margaret, except to say that > she's not the only racist in the British Royal Family. Apparently Our Own Dear Queen has been known, earlier in her life, to refer to black people as "fuzzy-wuzzies", which is an almost infantile-sounding term, probably more indicative of a ludicrously sheltered upbringing than actual race-hatred. As for the Duke of Edinburgh (Prince Philip, or Phil The Greek, as he's more colloquially known), it's hard to know where to start. What about his comment to an English student who was studying in China: "Better not stay here too long, or you'll go home with slitty eyes." Azeem in London NP: Gianna Nannini - California (no, don't get all excited, it's not THAT song, but an album by Italy's foremost rock singer of the 70s and 80s. Don't know if she's still around. There is an Italian version of Me & bobby McGee on this album, though) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:33:04 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Termination of Contract/Special Status, njc A little long but tragically funny. This just arrived and perfectly illustrates the Non-Violence post. Laurent > > Subject: Termination of Contract/Special Status > To: The Lord God Almighty a.k.a. Jehovah, Allah, etc. > > From: The Jews; a.k.a. The Chosen people > > > > As you are aware, the contract made between you and Abraham is up for > renewal, and this memorandum is to advise you that after, yea, those many > millennia of consideration, we, the Jews (The Chosen People) have decided > that we really do not wish to renew. We should point out immediately that > there is nothing in writing, and contrary to popular beliefs, we (The Jews) > have not really benefited too much from this arrangement. > > > > If you go back to the early years of our arrangement, it definitely started > off on the wrong footing. Not only was Israel and Judea invaded almost every > year, but we went to enormous expense to erect not one but two Temples, and > they were both destroyed. All we have left is a pile of old stones called > the > Wailing Wall (of course you know all this, but we feel it's a good thing to > account for all the reasons we wish to terminate the contract). > > > > After the Hittites, Assyrians, Goliaths, etc., not only were we beaten up > almost daily, but then we were sold off as slaves to Egypt of all countries, > and really lost a few hundred years of development. Now we realize that you > went to a great deal of trouble to send Moses to lead us out of Egypt, and > those poor Egyptian buggers were smitten (smote)? with all those plagues, > but, reflecting on those years, we are at a loss to understand why it took > almost forty years to make a trip that El Al now does in 75 minutes. Also, > while not appearing to be ungrateful, for years a lot of people have asked > why Moses led us left instead of right at Sinai. If we'd have gone right, we > would have had the oil! > > > > OK, so the oil was not part of the deal, but then the Romans came and we > really were up to our necks in dreck. While it's true that the Romans did > give us water fit to drink, aqueducts, and baths, it was very disconcerting > to walk down one of the vias, look up, and see one of your friends or family > nailed to a three-by-four looking for all the world like a sign post. Even > one of our princes Judah ben Hur got caught up with Roman stuff and drove > like a crazy man around the Coliseum. It's a funny thing but many people > swore that Ben Hur had an uncanny resemblance to Moses...go figure. > > > > Then, of all things, one of our most up-and-coming carpenters...he did great > work real cheap, declared himself "Son of You" (there was nothing said about > this with Abe) and before we knew what was what, a whole new religion sprang > up. To add insult to injury, we were dispersed all over the world two or > three times while this new goy (oops guy) really caught on! We were truly > sorry to hear that the Romans executed him like so many others, but, and > this will make you laugh, once again we were blamed. > > > > Now here's something we really don't understand. That guy Jesus Christ, one > of ours and your own son, really came into his own. Millions of people > revered and worshipped his name and scriptures......and still killed us by > the millions. Claimed we drank the blood of new born infants, and controlled > the world banks (Oiy! if only that were so, we could have bought them all > off), and operated the worlds' media and so on and so on. > > > > Are we beginning to make our point here? > > > > OK so let's fast forward a few hundred years to the Crusades whoo boy! Again > we were caught in the middle! They, the Lords and Knights, came from all > over Europe to smack the Arabs and open up the holy places, but before we knew > what hit us, they were killing us right, left, and center along with > everyone else. Every time a king or a pope was down in the opinion polls, they called > a crusade or holy war, and went on a killing rampage in our land. Today it's > called Jihad. > > > > OK, so you tested us a little there, but then some bright cleric in Spain > came up with the Inquisition. We all thought it was a new game show, but > once > again we and, we must admit, quite a few others were used as firewood for a > whole new street lighting arrangement in major Spanish cities. > > > > All right, so that ended after about a hundred years or so...in the great > scheme of things not a long time. But every time we settled down in one > country or another they kicked us out! So we wandered around a few hundred > years or so, but it never changed. Finally we settled in a few countries but > they insisted we all live in ghettoes...no Westchester or Moscow for us. > > > > There we are in the ghettoes, when what do you know? The Russians come up > with the Pogroms. We all thought they made a spelling mistake and misspelled > programs, but we were dead wrong (no pun intended). Apparently, when there > was nothing else for them to do, killing the Jews (a.k.a. the Chosen People > are you getting our drift)? was the in thing. > > > > Now comes some really tough noogies. We were doing quite well, Thank you, in > a small European country called Germany, when some house painter wrote a > book, said a few things that caught on and became their leader....whoo boy > what a bad day that was for us...you know...your chosen people. We don't > really know where you were in the earth years 1940 to 1945. We know everyone > needs a break now and then...even Lord God Almighty's need some time off. > But really...when we needed you most, you were never around. You are probably > aware of this, but if you have forgotten, over six million of your chosen > people, along with quite a few UN-chosen others were murdered. They even > made lamp shades out of our skins. Look, we don't want to dwell on the past, but > it gets worse! > > > Here we are, it's 1948, and millions of us are displaced yet again, when you > really pull a fast one. We finally get our own land back! Yes!!! After all > these years, you arrange for us to go back...then all the Arab countries > immediately declare war on us. We have to tell you that sometimes your sense > of humor really eludes us. OK, so we win all the wars, but its now 2002 and > nothing's changed. We keep getting blown up, hijacked, and kidnapped. We > have no peace whatsoever. Enough is enough. > > > > So, we hope that you understand that nothing's forever (except you of > course) > and we respectfully would like to pull out of our verbal agreement vis-a-vis > being your chosen people. Look, sometimes things work out, sometimes they > don't. Let's be friends over the next few eons and see what happens. > > > How about this? We're sure you recall that Abraham had a whole other family > from Ishmael (the ones who got the oil) How about making them your chosen > people for a few thousand years? > > Respectfully yours, > > The Jews ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:32:35 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Non-Violence, njc Sharon Buffington wrote on 9/14: I > am an idealist in many respects. I say...why can we not all get along? > Being a Jew and losing relatives in the Holocaust I am fully aware that > there are bad people in the world. However, I am a non-violent person. > I believe in using our military to clean up cities, paint old people's > houses, and on and on...and yet...I also know we need to protect > ourselves. You would think > people would understand that war or aggression or whatever you want to > call it...NEVER solves the problem. Did Hitler solve any problems? Do > the Muslims or Irish solve any problems? Are Israel and Palestine > solving anything? Aggression under a myriad of ideologies..religion, > ethnic cleansing...does nothing more than call for counter attack. It > is all so sad. How do we stop? By not playing 'catch' back and forth. > The one who puts down his or her mitt is really the winner. > Dear Sharon, There I was at Yom Kipour thinking about your post. Then the rabbi made a speech in which he said that at some point Moses asked G.. to show him His glory (i.e. His power). And G.. answered; "I'll show you My kindness". So there I understood where the calls to non-violence made by you and other JMDLers come from. Indeed these are highly noble ideals worthy of G.. Him(Her)self, and thus I respect you for having those. Nevertheless, things are not always what they appear to be. Remember, when Nazis took Jews away, they never told them they were going to be gased because otherwise they figured the Jews would defend themselves, having nothing to lose. They said they would be "relocated with their families". The theatrical set up was so well perfected that until the last minute the victims believed they were going to take a shower. The rumors about the extermination were simply too horrible to be believed by most Jews (some fought, but not many). There have been entire books written about this evil machinery and all its trickery so I won't elaborate. The point I'm trying to make is this: there have been a lot of Israel/Sharon/Bush/Jew bashing in the world media, especially in Europe. This has led to hundreds of antisemitic incidents in France alone (synagogues burned down, jewish school buses attacked, etc) over the past year, and most have been unreported by the official media and minimized by the French govenrment. Now those media are criticizing Israel for using violence (I call it self defense but that's another debate). My personal feeling is very simple: we Jews didn't disturb anybody for 2000 years when we had no army and no way to defend ourselves. Now that we do, we are being bashed for using it. Those same people would much prefer the old undisturbing version of docil jews quietly being led to slaughter. Please Sharon let history teach us something. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:26:15 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Travelogue > From: "Blair Fraipont" > Subject: Travelogue > > I am just excited that Ry Cooder may be on the album. I heard > somewhere in the reports that he may have been on one of the tracks. The > last 2 1/2 years I have been a pretty big RY fan and the idea of him and > Joni collaborating or just having his guitar behind her voice with the same > orchestral maneuvers as "both sides Now" as the background, excites me. I > really do hope he is on the album Hi Blair, Don't get too excited. Although Ry is THE MASTER in my book, he's also such a discreet man that whenever he plays on other artists' albums you can barely hear him because he totally blends in with the artist's music style. He'll just bring some nice touches, but no radical transformation to Joni's. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:35:46 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: americas, NJC > From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" > Subject: Re: americas njc > > Hold on! People who live in the US, call their country the US or the USA. > We don't say "I live in America." > > People who DON'T live here say, "She's from America." > Hi Jim, Chuck Berry and MC5 sang 'Back in the USA', Bruce sang '"Born in the USA", but if my memory is good James Brown had a big hit in 84 with "Living in America", didn't he? Laurent's 1.5 cents ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:16:39 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? Mike writes: << Hey Bob, Ain't you paying attention? I already have copyright on this joke (see above), and the website (choniemitchell.com) will be online soon. >> I DO pay attention, Mike . . . honest! It's just that sometimes I forget! Will you also have a CMDL? Keep us all abreast! (Damn! Now I'm stealing from Muller!) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:26:24 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? **(Damn! Now I'm stealing from Muller!)** Like they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Besides I found it titillating! :~) Bob NP: Claud, Better Run (so beautiful!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:30:06 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: america, america >Is the supposed arrogance in the founding fathers deciding that >"America" would be part of the country's name? Well, why not? Other >countries could have done the same, yes? i just spent a few minutes searching, and i can't find the source and the story, but i know that the naming of the "United States of America" was a compromise between the states. I remember there were some other names up for consideration... I think they stuck with the dull (comparatively) "United States of America" because the states were wary of getting sucked into a Union and losing their individual power... I wish I remembered the names that were on the table - there was one really pretty one!! Maybe one of the librarians knows how to find this information quickly... :-) - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:30:37 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: apologies to the jony-onlies - i'm sorry, i forgot to tag my message NJC. - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:37:22 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: still america NJC Mary wrote: >While living in Spain and Chile, I always made it a point to say >"estadounidense" whenever I could to express my nationality. However, >that isn't nearly as widely accepted, and earned me some very strange looks. i lived in spain during my middle/high school years (1986-1992) and i *often* heard citizens of the US referred to as estadounidenses. a mouthful, but at least its clear as to whom we are referring! they quite often say "americanos" though, too. growing up in expat communities, i always called the country "the States" and not "America". i was surprised when i moved to the US to go to college that everyone called their country "America" (which sounded strange to me - isn't it ALL america, including my country, canada?), and that no one knew what i was talking about when i talked about "the States". expat kids run around talking about when their families are going to "the States" for vacation. - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:44:57 -0400 From: Yael Harlap Subject: chortle!! NJC ethelbob wrote: >we're captured on the aureoles of time . . . ok i am SO on a short-little posting kick today. i think its because i just got my post-ability back yesterday (thanks les!). so i recently saw this crazy act by Bitch and Animal. anyone ever heard of them?! they're a wild feminist duo (and lesbian, but i personally think the strongly feminist aspect is more descriptive of them - straight people probably wouldn't agree!!). and their songs are sooo funny. i wouldn't really be into listening to the cds but go see them live if you can. my favorite part was the Pussy Manifesto (pussy manifesto! pussy manifesto! pussy pussy pusssssssy manifesto! manifest this!). but there was also a crooning song called Princess Aureola. which is what prompted me to post this in response to bob's comment. was it worth it? :-) - -yael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:57:47 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? Muller writes: << I found it titillating! :~) >> Good one, Bob. I can't wait until the day when technology allows us to attach rimshots to our JMDL posts. --Boob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:06:19 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: chortle!! NJC Yael writes: << so i recently saw this crazy act by Bitch and Animal. anyone ever heard of them?! >> Heard of them? I've known them all my life! I just had no idea my siblings we performing outside of the usual family gatherings . . . --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:27:26 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: tits NJC LOL! > This reminds me of an image of the cult statue of > Artemis of Ephesus. This > statue of Artemis is depicted with many breasts > which was often taken as a > fertility symbol. Since David Byrne is a highly > educated fella, I think he > may have had an allusion to this in some drug > induced state. > Just my take... Or maybe he was just looking at his cat. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:31:04 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: tits NJC well ... i hope they gave "Justice" and underwire bra. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:45 PM To: chiaroscuro@snet.net; lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com; yael@pixelmajik.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: tits NJC Heather writes: << This statue of Artemis is depicted with many breasts >> Thank God Attorney General Ashcroft didn't have to deal with this one! After all, the "Spirit of Justice" statue, which the Justice Department spent $8,000 covering, only had one exposed breast! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:34:36 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: NJC Isthmus isthmus be my lucky day. how's that? Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of vince Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 4:51 AM To: Catherine McKay; joni Subject: NJC Isthmus Catherine McKay wrote: > At least N and S Amer have > this little peninsula thing dividing them. Wouldn't that be an isthmus connecting them - isthmus being s lovely word no one ever uses in daily conversation? era, away from Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:38:39 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: More Anne News (NJC) This is excellent news!!! Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of AsharaJM@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 3:56 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: More Anne News (NJC) Just got off the phone with Anne. (I asked for patient information to get some news, and they just put me through to her.) She is very groggy, on lots of pain meds, but she is doing well. She said the operation went well, they got the whole thing, and she's been up walking around a bit today. YAY!!!!!! More as I know anything...... Your roving hug reporter, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:50:42 +0100 From: "Amelio Alamo" Subject: Re: Travelogue Question >Urge for Going does have a lot of potential for this kind of project. As >does Sweet Bird. Whadya think? >GARRET That was the other one I was thinking of. A lot of things seem to be going on in the background which would be pefrect. 'Sweet Bird' is so timeless aswell. I always used to skip that one but oneday it just rang true and It's one of my fave songs. Steve T. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:08:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? **Good one, Bob. I can't wait until the day when technology allows us to attach rimshots to our JMDL posts** Are you kidding? Between you & I, it'd sound like gunfire! (rimshot):~) Bob NP: Blue Mountain, "Dead End Street" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:11:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? **Good one, Bob. I can't wait until the day when technology allows us to attach rimshots to our JMDL posts** Are you kidding? Between you & I, it'd sound like gunfire! (rimshot):~) Bob NP: Blue Mountain, "Dead End Street" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:15:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? **Good one, Bob. I can't wait until the day when technology allows us to attach rimshots to our JMDL posts** Are you kidding? Between you & I, it'd sound like gunfire! (rimshot):~) Bob NP: Blue Mountain, "Dead End Street" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:28:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Bitch & Animal NJC **Bitch and Animal. anyone ever heard of them?! they're a wild feminist duo ** They opened up for Ani when I saw her in Asheville last year. Unique, to say the least! I was waiting for them to perform the song from Flower Drum Song "I Enjoy Being A Girl"! :!) Bob NP: Ferron, "Where Is Maria" from the new Greg Brown tribute "Going Driftless" - nice! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:28:20 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Chonies NJC? > **Good one, Bob. I can't wait until the day when technology allows us to > attach rimshots to our JMDL posts** > > Are you kidding? Between you & I, it'd sound like gunfire! (rimshot):~) > > Bob Bob...fire off a few more of these posts...I don't think I heard you :~) Victor NP: JGB "The Way You Do the Things You Do" Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:43:02 -0500 From: "kasey simpson" Subject: Fw: Non-Violence, njc Laurent, I guess I was so impressed with your post I didn't notice I only replied to you. I hope to read more from you. Kasey Thanks Kasey, But why don't you post your feelings? Laurent - ----- Original Message ----- From: kasey simpson To: Laurent Olszer Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Non-Violence, njc Laurent, I loved your post. Everyone would love to live in utopia, but the real world isn't. I was born and raised Catholic, however I have always had a respect, and soft spot for the Jewish people. Jewish people have always (since the beginning of time) hate, violence, and enslavement. Yet you go on. It is long past time for Israel to "get along". There are bullies in the real world. As long as we sit passively by they will continue to be bullies. I would love to live in a world of peace. It was not peace that stopped Hitler, rather a loving world saying enough is enough. As long as bullies rear their heads their will be violence. Had Bush simply said turn the other cheek on 9/11 I fear the attacks on our country would have continued. I've read where people believe Bush is a war monger, "war means money", I disagree. Bush is trying to prevent another WW. If you turn your head, and live as an "idealist" the Hitler's of world take over. I think an olive branch should ALWAYS be the first effort, but when that fails, and force must be used, use it. Thanks again for your lovely post. Kasey Sharon Buffington wrote on 9/14: I > am an idealist in many respects. I say...why can we not all get along? > Being a Jew and losing relatives in the Holocaust I am fully aware that > there are bad people in the world. However, I am a non-violent person. > I believe in using our military to clean up cities, paint old people's > houses, and on and on...and yet...I also know we need to protect > ourselves. You would think > people would understand that war or aggression or whatever you want to > call it...NEVER solves the problem. Did Hitler solve any problems? Do > the Muslims or Irish solve any problems? Are Israel and Palestine > solving anything? Aggression under a myriad of ideologies..religion, > ethnic cleansing...does nothing more than call for counter attack. It > is all so sad. How do we stop? By not playing 'catch' back and forth. > The one who puts down his or her mitt is really the winner. > Dear Sharon, There I was at Yom Kipour thinking about your post. Then the rabbi made a speech in which he said that at some point Moses asked G.. to show him His glory (i.e. His power). And G.. answered; "I'll show you My kindness". So there I understood where the calls to non-violence made by you and other JMDLers come from. Indeed these are highly noble ideals worthy of G.. Him(Her)self, and thus I respect you for having those. Nevertheless, things are not always what they appear to be. Remember, when Nazis took Jews away, they never told them they were going to be gased because otherwise they figured the Jews would defend themselves, having nothing to lose. They said they would be "relocated with their families". The theatrical set up was so well perfected that until the last minute the victims believed they were going to take a shower. The rumors about the extermination were simply too horrible to be believed by most Jews (some fought, but not many). There have been entire books written about this evil machinery and all its trickery so I won't elaborate. The point I'm trying to make is this: there have been a lot of Israel/Sharon/Bush/Jew bashing in the world media, especially in Europe. This has led to hundreds of antisemitic incidents in France alone (synagogues burned down, jewish school buses attacked, etc) over the past year, and most have been unreported by the official media and minimized by the French govenrment. Now those media are criticizing Israel for using violence (I call it self defense but that's another debate). My personal feeling is very simple: we Jews didn't disturb anybody for 2000 years when we had no army and no way to defend ourselves. Now that we do, we are being bashed for using it. Those same people would much prefer the old undisturbing version of docil jews quietly being led to slaughter. Please Sharon let history teach us something. Laurent Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:29:43 -0600 From: owen.duff@ntlworld.com (by way of Les Irvin ) Subject: Dog Eat Dog Revisited and Don't Look Now Does anyone else agree that it would be a great (and not too time-consuming or expensive) project for Joni to return to 'Dog Eat Dog' and, keeping the original vocals, remaster it in a more timeless form? Just acoustic piano and guitar on some of those songs would be delicious! I think DED would be judged a lot more fairly were it more in keeping with the production of her other work - I truly believe they're great songs but a lot of people cant listen to them because of how they sound. I often sing them just myself and piano - songs like 'the Three Great Stimulants' and 'Impossible Dreamer' sound great this way. Joni probably wouldnt want to return to a finished project, on the other hand she certainly seems to feel it deeply when one of her 'babies' doesnt get a fair run... well, its a shame she doesn't read the list (not that she'd listen to me Im sure!)! On an unrelated topic, after visiting Venice this year I bought the film 'Dont Look Now' on DVD (which is set there), I remembered it from seeing it when i was younger. I love the film, but can anyone throw any light on the ending? The documentary on the DVD only waffled on in a kind of luvvie manner about the imagery and genius of everyone involved. But no-one seems to know what it all means!! I know its open to interpretation but I can't think of an explanation for the ending at all... Probably no-one knows the film but JMDLers seem a clever bunch so I thought I'd give it a shot! Ciao for now, Owen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:31:44 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Travelogue question I would like to see "Chinese Cafe" swapped for "For Free". After thinking about "Sex Kills", it seems to me that Joni is way ahead of her time with this song. It may not click well with our generation, but after we have all vanished from this Earth, this song may go down in history in the textbooks. Many of my U.S. history textbooks have little vignettes on the pages with references to particular paintings, photographs, or songs that reflect the times of a certain period. I can certainly envision "Sex Kills" in one of these vignettes for a history textbook 50-100 years down the road. What does everyone else think? Mia - np "In the Garage" - Weezer _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:54:35 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: chonies NJC a google search on chonies!!!! lmao mike !!!!!!!! >> Google has 272 entries on this topic. Here's a link which gives the word as 'chicano' slang for 'undies'. http://www.jibaros.com/chonies.htm mike, seeking medical help. << ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:54:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: tits NJC wouldn't that be a funny gag gift to send to him? Heather writes: << This statue of Artemis is depicted with many breasts >> bob replied: >>Thank God Attorney General Ashcroft didn't have to deal with this one!<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:54:48 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: This one really cracks me up sleezy slimy thing to do! i think someone doing that should be excommunicated from the jmdl list for that ... off with their h..uh, names! Bob wrote "Here's a guy in the UK (former/current JMDL'er?) selling a CD that I made for him! I guess it was bound to happen..." ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:54:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Continents - NJC (long.....winded!) hell thanks for all that info, that is so interesting! i'd never heard of the word pangea before...i had a friend who was a geology major & it was always so interesting being with her as she'd point out hills & rocks & why they were that way as we'd be driving along, giving me a whole new perspective on my surroundings... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:59:53 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: RE: Chonies VLJC >> Will you also have a CMDL? Keep us all abreast! (Damn! Now I'm stealing from Muller!) --Bob Yes, indeed there will be a CMDL. First suggestion for the jonies chonies site is that jonies chonies would be, err, Blue. I thank our anonymous correspondent for that. You, know, there may be more, and better mike in barcelona NP Elvis Costello. The World of Broken Hearts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:05:26 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Bristols (NJC) You know, a performance by Chonie Mitchell & The Bristols would certainly influence my decision about attending a Joni fest. :) Bristol Cities...good one Azeem! - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:18:06 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: tits NJC While we're on the subject of breastular humour, could I throw in my favourite term for bra? "Over the Shoulder Boulder Holder" :-) - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:28:08 +0100 From: "Amelio Alamo" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Revisited and Don't Look Now Okay, when I first started reading this I thought you were joking! Then I read on and understood what you were talking about. You know you might just be on to something 'cos some of her 80's lyrics do pop up in my head sometimes! "The old hate the young That's the whole heartless thing" (That came to me not so long ago after someone said something very agest to me! They know who they are!) Anyway I thought which album is that from and then I realized it was CMIARS. Considering her 80's albums don't get as many plays I was quite suprised. Yes I think the music to it sounds quite dated to me. I don't like most 80's stuff as a whole anyway. But yeah acoustic could work well. OWEN wrote:- >Does anyone else agree that it would be a great (and not too time-consuming >or expensive) project for Joni to return to 'Dog Eat Dog' and, keeping the >original vocals, remaster it in a more timeless form? Just acoustic piano >and guitar on some of those songs would be delicious! I think DED would be >judged a lot more fairly were it more in keeping with the production of her >other work - I truly believe they're great songs but a lot of people cant >listen to them because of how they sound. I often sing them just myself and >piano - songs like 'the Three Great Stimulants' and 'Impossible Dreamer' >sound great this way. Joni probably wouldnt want to return to a finished >project, on the other hand she certainly seems to feel it deeply when one >of >her 'babies' doesnt get a fair run... well, its a shame she doesn't read >the >list (not that she'd listen to me Im sure!)! > STEVE T. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:39:28 +0100 From: "Amelio Alamo" Subject: re: Travelogue question At first I thought 'Sex Kills' sounded like a bad attemp to get with the times but then I really listened to what she was saying and her anger... It really does point alot of things out for just one song. Watching her perform it on 'Painting With Words And Music' really changed my mind too. No, I think 'Chinese Cafe' is a great choice, but yeah 'For Free' would have worked wonderfuly. >I would like to see "Chinese Cafe" swapped for "For Free". > >After thinking about "Sex Kills", it seems to me that Joni is way ahead of >her time with this song. It may not click well with our generation, but >after we have all vanished from this Earth, this song may go down in >history in the textbooks. Many of my U.S. history textbooks have little >vignettes on the pages with references to particular paintings, >photographs, or songs that reflect the times of a certain period. I can >certainly envision "Sex Kills" in one of these vignettes for a history >textbook 50-100 years down the road. What does everyone else think? > >Mia - np "In the Garage" - Weezer > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Steve T. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:54:14 -0400 From: dsk Subject: America [was tits/america/vespucio] NJC Wally Kairuz wrote: > > i was taught that there are 6 continents: africa, america, europe, asia, > oceania and antarctica. i was never taught that australia was a continent > but rather a country in oceania. Very interesting. No wonder you've brought up the "America" thing a couple of times. I've heard of Oceania, but only as the collection of small oceans in the Pacific Ocean, places like Samoa and Tahiti. I'm not sure what continent U.S. geographers consider it part of, Australia maybe. > geologists define continents by geological features, such as the continental > platform, the drift, the age of the geological components and strata, etc. > the people of the united states of america might have called themselves > unionists or north americans just as well as they chose to call themselves > americans. Union has different connotations than the word united does, and calling people from the U.S. the Uniteds sounds almost militant. Calling people from the U.S. North Americans seems strange, as though there's no difference in history or culture between people from Canada, the U.S., Mexico, the Caribbean, Guatemala, Panama... everybody born in the american continent is an american. > uruguayans and peruvians are americans. guatemalans and chileans are > americans. and so forth. i don't think that it is a matter of what you WANT > to be called, but of what you in fact ARE. I'm trying to understand your point and the feelings behind it. The closest I can come is to imagine that someone from Germany could be called European, someone from Japan could be called Asian, and so someone from Argentina (or any of the countries in North and South America) could be called American, and yet they're not. (Whether anyone would WANT to be identified with the larger area is another issue.) Since we in the U.S. (and the world?) see the word American and think of it only as being a U.S. citizen, it shows a disregard for millions of other people. Am I close? I still think the label American comes from the fact that the word America is part of the full name of the country, and isn't meant to be dismissive toward anyone. But, that's from my limited point of view, is what I'm used to, and most importantly, is based in thinking, not feeling. I've heard people from Peru or Argentina or Brazil referred to as South Americans, but to me that's grouping so many different people together it's rude and is said only when people don't know the region well enough to be more specific. Anyway, thanks for your further explanation, Wally. Next time the "America" issue comes up, I'll see it a bit differently, and avoid having a hissy fit (maybe... I'd better not make any promises about that). Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #383 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)