From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #373 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 373 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Ponette and Children NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Rich and fay/fey/ofay ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay, pun alert! ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Letterman NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Sir Paul McCartney On Tour, njc [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: back to the Edmund Fitzgerald njc [Michael Paz ] oh? njc [vince ] Re: Ponette and Children NJC [Michael Paz ] Re: Bob Muller searched NJC ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: oh? njc [vince ] Re: letterman and clinton - njc [Mags N Brei ] Re: Just a JMDL question, please help NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Bob Muller searched NJC ["Heather" ] Re: njc blowing in the wind...the JMDL ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: oh? njc ["kakki" ] njc political things in the JMDL ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Bob Muller searched NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Bob Muller searched NJC ["Heather" ] Re: bombing Michigan NJC [vince ] Re: njc political things in the JMDL ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] peace day njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: oh? njc ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Twisted Chalkmark [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Bob Muller searched NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: peace day njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:40:40 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ponette and Children NJC Paz writes: > I love something that makes me forget who I am for > awhile and takes me out of my own reality and puts me > somewhere else Drugs and alcohol can be extremely helpful in achieving that state, Michael. That's what I hear, anyway. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:48:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Rich and fay/fey/ofay I was a little off-hand the other day about this but...... To me, "fay" seems less likely. The tone of her writing is not to call herself a fairy, dispensing magic, for example. The spin about calling herself "other-worldly" matches pretty well, and mirrors my observation that she's a pale, Caucasian ghost, in a world of black ghosts. Never one to avoid stating the obvious as I am, either way, it rhymes with 'what you play'. On reflection, "ofay", having its origin in the 1920's as a disparaging racist term for a white is pretty close to the flavor of Furry's naked dislike, rooted in the Memphis racism of the 30s. At minimum it certainly enriches the word choice. To me, it's likely that she skillfully used the word "fey", knowing that it would also imply "ofay". This business of calling herself by a disparaging name reminds me of "Talk To Me" from the very next year, where she's saying "Shut me up and Talk to me!" I'm loving this thread. Lamadoo > Now, on to "ofay": > Ofay - US a derogatory term for a white person used > by > black people - origin, 1920s from "au fait", in the > sense "genteel". (this from the Oxford concise.) - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > W.C. Handy, I'm rich and I'm fey... Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:51:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay, pun alert! or 'fey'-n disinterest? - --- Heather wrote: > I elect that we give Catherine an "A" for research! > Excellent job! > > And on that note, maybe we can Fey-nish with this > subject ;-) > > Heather Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Vince writes: > > > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > > > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > > > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, > after > > > all. > > Look how far we've come! These days, Italian-looking > men are only suspected of being in the Mafia! > Yeah, but we're OK with that. The Mafia doesn't bug anyone. They keep it in the famiglia. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:11:47 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Letterman NJC > that said, i think that clinton bashing or bush bashing or any bashing of a > political figure should never be taken as bashing of someone's personal > opinions...that would be silly...i mean if you bash my husband or child, yes > i will take it personally, but not if you bash the guy i voted for! Your post makes a lot of sense & I like the way you think, Kate. Unfortunately, this is often not how things work around here. Some people do seem to take attacks on political figures personally. I suppose if someone makes insulting remarks about a president or that president's policies, by extension the people who voted for that president and/or believe in his ability & have some admiration for him feel that their judgment is being insulted as well. It would be nice if everybody would be both a little more respectful of others feelings on these matters and a little more thick-skinned about them at the same time if that makes sense or is even possible. And I have to say I agree with Kakki on one point. As much as I dislike Bush, it does seem that hardly anybody raises a peep with all the Bush bashing that goes on here. But criticize Clinton and feathers get ruffled, some people get emotional and it seems to me that some others end up taking far more heat than they deserve. Could it be that the conservatives and Bush supporters on the list (and please don't get me wrong, I am *not* one of them but I *know* there must be some out there) are not comfortable with posting their opinions what with all the vitriol that gets aimed at their political leanings? Is it right for those with the more popular opinion to bully those who disagree into silence? Of course it isn't and I don't think anybody here wants to do that. So maybe we could try to make political comments a bit more objective and try to keep some of the emotion out of it? Maybe? Pretty please? Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:23:10 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Sir Paul McCartney On Tour, njc Hey Jim and other Beats fans, I have two floor tix to Paul's concert that I'm selling, face value, which is (gulp) $250 each. Email if interested- Terry www.addconsults.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:24:39 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) Anne Perhaps you were unaware of the "inner circle list" that slms you ALL the time for your wayward peacelovedove thoughts and ramblings, but far be it for me to gossip and let the cat out of the bag so to speak. My thoughts and prayers are with you and hope for your quick return home where you belong so we can continue bashing you. I mean that girl, kick ass on weds and hurry home! Love to you Paz on 9/16/02 10:14 AM, anne@sandstrom.com at anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off > for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to > Wednesday's surgery. Let's hope the third time's the > charm. (It's my third major surgery in as many years to > remove a stubborn tumor that keeps recurring.) > > I'll be back after I get home from the hospital. Feel > free to gossip about me when I'm away :-) [that should > result is a resounding silence LOL!] > > I hope for peace and health, both here and in the world > in general. My best to all of you. > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:28:12 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc > i suggest we should think before we post harsh things about politics. maybe > use religion and sex as a bench mark.....if i said this about someone's > religion or their sexuality....would it be perecieved as prejudice or mean > spirited? i know i view the comments being currently made about bush as both > prejudicial and mean spirited...all though the slammers feel justified > because this is a "liberal list". well that's not the case. this is a music > list that attracts many people from vast differing demographics some of which > are liberal and others who are not. so to assume that we are all the same or > that we are a majority and therefore we can write off other's opinions or > thoughts or experiences as stupid or wrong or naieve....isn't that the basis > for prejudice? is that really liberal? I hadn't read your post before I wrote mine, Pat. You said it far better than I did. Thank you. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:29:05 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: back to the Edmund Fitzgerald njc Arrrrgh! 'eres one for all the sea hags in the audience! Paz on 9/16/02 1:20 PM, Bob.Muller@fluor.com at Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > <> > > Mondegreen alert! I always heard 'good ship and CREW' (and I think that's > what it is). > > What this song needs is a good bridge and about half the verses deleted. > Just reading the lyrics reminded me how tedious it was to listen to. > > But all the same Vince, thanks for reprinting them...Lieve, I'll still sing > it if Michael will play it, although I may fall asleep in the middle of it! > :~D > > Hey Sharon, maybe you can learn an accordion part and we can make a sea > chanty out of it! > > Bob > > NP: Cassandra Wilson, "I Didn't Know What Time It Was" 7/1/95 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:33:20 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc The carpet crawlers heed their callers: "We've got to get in to get out We've got to get in to get out We've got to get in to get out" But I digress! ;-) Paz on 9/16/02 1:28 PM, Lori in MD at lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com wrote: >> i'm really tired of the bush bashing we have on this list > > Speaking for myself as a lesbian, and for any and all other bush lovers > as well, please, no bush bashing on this list! > > Ouch! > > ; ) > > L. > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:49:12 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) Dearest Anne: Please know you are in our prayers. You know Sugar Pants will be right there with you. :) Lots of Love....Sharon and Katherine anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off > for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to > Wednesday's surgery. Let's hope the third time's the > charm. (It's my third major surgery in as many years to > remove a stubborn tumor that keeps recurring.) > > I'll be back after I get home from the hospital. Feel > free to gossip about me when I'm away :-) [that should > result is a resounding silence LOL!] > > I hope for peace and health, both here and in the world > in general. My best to all of you. > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:37:01 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC I HAVE been told this (being of the brown persuasion) and by God you know I think it's true or so some of me friends tell me. Paz (an honorary lesbian and certifiable browny) on 9/16/02 3:06 PM, Lori in MD at lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com wrote: >> In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early >> 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the >> constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after >> all. > > Dammit Vince, don't you know by now that it's always the brown people > of this world who cause all the problems??? > > Lori, > not one bit serious, > but whose parents were fairly convinced of such ridiculousness -- and > they REALLY didn't like Italians!!! > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:46:40 -0400 From: vince Subject: oh? njc Mark or Travis wrote: > Could it be that the conservatives and Bush supporters on the list (and please don't get me wrong, I am *not* one of them but I *know* there must be some out there) are not comfortable with posting their opinions what with all the vitriol that gets aimed at their political leanings? Is it right for those with the more popular opinion to bully those who disagree into silence? Of course it isn't and I don't think anybody here wants to do that. So maybe we could try to make political comments a bit more objective and try to keep some of the emotion out of it? Maybe? Pretty please? Mark, I cannot agree with that premise. I'd hate to review all the trash that has said about Clinton in the JMDL through the years, but consider even this thread: originally someone posted how much they liked Clinton's appearance on Letterman. That was followed by several posts, several of which attacked Clinton for being too conservative, others which attacked Clinton for the Monica Lewinski thing, and one that spoke of a visceral dislike of Clinton, which post spoke badly of Clinton. I do not recall that there was much heat about any of those posts. There were some exchanges, but everything was cool -- - -- until the following was posted: "In addition, finally some brave people in the press and brave FBI whistleblowers are revealing what many have known for years - that the Oklahoma City bombing was connected to Hamas and Iraq and not to "people who listen to right wing radio" as Clinton so despicably bullshitted us." That statement can be unpacked a lot of ways, but that was as in-your-face attack post as much as we have ever had. And to that, there was response. So who's zooming who? That must not be forgotten: who is zooming who? To throw out a statement like that and expect, what? When something like that is posted, the response is going to come and then it is totally unfair to say 'the liberals' are bullies. How can I say: if I were to post an equivalent statement about Bush - not that I believe this at all, just an analogy for the sake of illustration - "that the September 11th bombings were allowed to happen because the government wanted a pretense to start a war for oil, it was not a surprise, as Clinton so despicably bullshitted us" - now Mark, what do you think the reaction would be? I would have caught hell for that. Again, I don't believe that, it is for illustration purposes only. But my point is - you throw a grenade out, you get an explosion, and it is wrong to blame the explosion and say that the one who threw the grenade is being picked on. And you are telling whom to be objective and who to keep emotions out of their posts? Go back and read all the posts prior to the one I quote above and tell me where the emotion was and where the lack of objectivity was. But then, why shouldn't there be emotion, and who of us is purely objective? I think people here bend over backwards sometimes to avoid saying something that might be an offense to someone else. And when the heated discussion comes, well, I posted about that already today. As someone who has tossed out some things in my day that have gotten some heated responses, I know how badly one can feel afterwards, how lonely, how dispirited. But long time posters especially know what buttons to push, what will going to get a response, a heated response. Again, so back and read all of the posts prior top the one I quote. There were several people who ripped Clinton from the left and other posts taking on his character. The responses to all of that were very pacific. The post I quote above that ratcheted things upward, indeed, one of the earliest replies to that was a ringing endorsement of it. And even now, Mark, you have around here a long, long time. There still has been little heat, responses, yes, but heat, no. I do not buy that there has been anything other than a fair and even exchange in response to a statement that some people are incredulous about. And that is conversation. I think a lot of JMDLers are very careful to make every post non personal. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:50:04 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Ponette and Children NJC Yea yea yea, but that's more normal PROcess I was talking on the outside of the NORM. He hee Takesonetoknowone Paz on 9/16/02 5:40 PM, Murphycopy@aol.com at Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Paz writes: > >> I love something that makes me forget who I am for >> awhile and takes me out of my own reality and puts me >> somewhere else > > Drugs and alcohol can be extremely helpful in achieving that state, Michael. > That's what I hear, anyway. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:03:38 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: oh? njc Since this is directed at me by Vince I will answer it. To be redundant, there has been much evidence and press for years that there is a middle east terrorist connection to the OKC bombing. This does not negate that McVeigh and McNichol were also involved. I am not sure why my statements are considered an in your face attack. If people want to lay it all out here in an unmoderated forum, then there will be much input. My feelings (and no one has to agree with them) is that if that attack was spun to implicate the right wing - it is wrong. I stand by that. I think a better analogy to give an example of what that felt like to me personally is the 5 Al Queda cell members just arrested in New York. All American citizens and, as USA Today reported, registered Democrats. How would you feel if Laura Bush came out today and made the comment that "these members of Al Queda were the same people who voted for Al Gore and Bill Clinton." Your outrage would, justifiably, know no bounds. Kakki > -- until the following was posted: "In addition, finally some brave people in the press and brave FBI whistleblowers are revealing what many have known for years - that the Oklahoma City bombing was connected to Hamas and Iraq and not to "people who listen to right wing radio" as Clinton so despicably bullshitted us." > > That statement can be unpacked a lot of ways, but that was as in-your-face attack post as much as we have ever had. And to that, there was response. So who's zooming who? > > That must not be forgotten: who is zooming who? To throw out a statement like that and expect, what? When something like that is posted, the response is going to come and then it is totally unfair to say 'the liberals' are bullies. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:26:23 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC Bob Muller ALWAYS gets searched before boarding planes. Katherine and I had to stand by while he was searched in Cleveland. All the while he is explaining to the security people, who have come across his big assed cd player and thousands of blank cd's, that he loves Joni Mitchell and is going to a Joni Mitchell festival at the Full Moon while there IS a full moon...but Joni Mitchell will not be...but his friends he met on the internet WILL be. He pointed towards Katherine and me and told security we were Joni people...I told them in no uncertain terms we had never met him and we personally preferred Judy Collins. Love and Peace...Sharon Heather wrote: > > Yes ... my husband is Italian and we're either getting searched before > boarding planes or people coming up to my husband asking him if he can > "arrange things" for them. > > Seriously ... only the first part is true. We got searched both going and > coming back from out west. We thought for sure it was because of my > husband's looks. I kept telling him to take off the damn sun glasses! > > Terrorism has turned our world up-side-down. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Murphycopy@aol.com > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:47 PM > To: lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com|; "Lori in MD"; revrvl@chartermi.net; > joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC > > Vince writes: > > > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > > > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > > > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after > > > all. > > Look how far we've come! These days, Italian-looking men are only suspected > of being in the Mafia! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:18:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a JMDL question, please help NJC **so you see folks this is only one fo the many reasons that I am a BobwannaBe.** As JT says, "BSUR"! There are LOTS of Bobs, but there is only ONE Paz! :~) Bob NP: The Johnstons, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:17:57 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay, pun alert! LOL! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:52 PM To: Heather; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay, pun alert! or 'fey'-n disinterest? - --- Heather wrote: > I elect that we give Catherine an "A" for research! > Excellent job! > > And on that note, maybe we can Fey-nish with this > subject ;-) > > Heather Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:23:55 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: oh? njc kakki wrote: > How would you feel if Laura Bush came > out today and made the comment that "these members of Al Queda were the same > people who voted for Al Gore and Bill Clinton." Your outrage would, > justifiably, know no bounds. > And justifiably so, because Hillary Clinton never made a corresponding remark, which would have been outrageous. Hillary never said, the people who bombed OK city are people who voted for George Bush. Never did Hillary suggest that or say that. Bill Clinton spoke of people who listened to hate radio, in the days after the OK bombing. Hillary at the beginning of impeachment spoke of a vast right wing conspiracy. Why you apply these separate statements about separate things to what you do, I don't know. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:27:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc i know that some people on this list don't post out in the open for fear of getting their hands slapped or their opinions slammed down like some basketball. Is this why we have so many lurkers?? Where is the happy medium? Is there one? Can we speak our piece without fear? If not, why not? can we listen and learn? agree to disagree? Ive always wanted to address this very issue and just take a wild guess why I haven't. Mags, with apologies for not doing the cut/paste appropriate format with my response. - --- Mark or Travis wrote: > > i suggest we should think before we post harsh things about > politics. maybe > > use religion and sex as a bench mark.....if i said this about > someone's > > religion or their sexuality....would it be perecieved as prejudice > or mean > > spirited? i know i view the comments being currently made about > bush as both > > prejudicial and mean spirited...all though the slammers feel > justified > > because this is a "liberal list". well that's not the case. this > is a music > > list that attracts many people from vast differing demographics > some of which > > are liberal and others who are not. so to assume that we are all > the same or > > that we are a majority and therefore we can write off other's > opinions or > > thoughts or experiences as stupid or wrong or naieve....isn't that > the basis > > for prejudice? is that really liberal? > > I hadn't read your post before I wrote mine, Pat. You said it far > better than I did. Thank you. > > Mark E. ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:27:54 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a JMDL question, please help NJC Muller writes: > There are LOTS of Bobs, but there is only ONE Paz! < Yes, but PAZ spelled backwards is ZAP, whereas BOB is, of course, BOB. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:31:31 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Bob Muller searched NJC LOL!!! Bob with all his cd's ... reminds me of the woman who was a professional boomerang thrower. She tried to board a plane with all her different boomerangs and they would not let her on ... guess they thought they could be weapons. Gee Bob ... you could have converted all the people on the plane to love Joni's music ;-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: Sharon L. Buffington [mailto:sharonbuffington@attbi.com] Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 10:26 PM To: Heather Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC Bob Muller ALWAYS gets searched before boarding planes. Katherine and I had to stand by while he was searched in Cleveland. All the while he is explaining to the security people, who have come across his big assed cd player and thousands of blank cd's, that he loves Joni Mitchell and is going to a Joni Mitchell festival at the Full Moon while there IS a full moon...but Joni Mitchell will not be...but his friends he met on the internet WILL be. He pointed towards Katherine and me and told security we were Joni people...I told them in no uncertain terms we had never met him and we personally preferred Judy Collins. Love and Peace...Sharon Heather wrote: > > Yes ... my husband is Italian and we're either getting searched before > boarding planes or people coming up to my husband asking him if he can > "arrange things" for them. > > Seriously ... only the first part is true. We got searched both going and > coming back from out west. We thought for sure it was because of my > husband's looks. I kept telling him to take off the damn sun glasses! > > Terrorism has turned our world up-side-down. > > Heather > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Murphycopy@aol.com > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:47 PM > To: lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com|; "Lori in MD"; revrvl@chartermi.net; > joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC > > Vince writes: > > > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > > > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > > > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after > > > all. > > Look how far we've come! These days, Italian-looking men are only suspected > of being in the Mafia! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:44:55 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: njc blowing in the wind...the JMDL Dear Vince: When I think things are going a bit tough...I remember this story: One dark night outside a small town, a fire started inside the local chemical plant. Before you could snap your fingers, it exploded into flames, and the alarm went out to the volunteer fire departments from miles around. When the volunteer firefighters appeared on the scene, the chemical company president rushed to the fire chief and said, "All of our secret formulas are in the vault in the center of the plant. They must be saved. I will give $50,000 to the engine company that brings them out intact." The fire chief ordered his men to strengthen their attack on the blaze. After two hours of unsuccessfully fighting the fire, another fire department was called in and the president of the chemical company offered $100,000 to the firefighters who could bring out the company's secret files. From the distance, a long siren was heard as another fire truck came into sight. It was the local volunteer fire company composed entirely of men over the age of 65. To everyone's amazement, the little fire engine raced past everyone and drove straight into the middle of the inferno. Outside, the other firemen watched as the old timers jumped off their rig and began to fight the fire with a zeal and effort never seen before. Within a short time, the old timers had extinguished the fire and saved the secret formulas. The grateful chemical company president joyfully announced that for such a super-human feat he was upping the reward to $200,000, and walked over to personally thank each of the brave, though elderly, fire fighters. The local TV news reporters rushed in after capturing the event on film and asked, "What are you going to do with all that money?" "Well," said the 70-year-old fire chief, gasping for breath, "the first thing we are going to do is fix the brakes on our fire truck!" vince wrote: > > Life is politics and politics is about life ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:32:40 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC ** Katherine and I had to stand by while he was searched in Cleveland.** True story! (although a LITTLE writer's embellishment there Sharon, which I loved...) I know if it's a lady security guard I'll get pulled just so she can feel me up. Can't blame her for that. But this time around (Cleveland) it was a couple of dudes, so I figured Murphy put them up to it. :~) And then I learned at the Full Moon that you should never make eye contact with them and the odds are they'll leave you alone. This is tough for me as I always approach and talk to everybody. BUT on the way back I kept my eyes averted and didn't get searched once. Bob NP: Andy Williams, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:33:05 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: oh? njc Vince, I've personally heard the radio clip of Hillary saying it long ago. I can't bring up an mp3 file to prove it to you, however. I've said all I have to say on this. Kakki > kakki wrote: > > > How would you feel if Laura Bush came > > out today and made the comment that "these members of Al Queda were the same > > people who voted for Al Gore and Bill Clinton." Your outrage would, > > justifiably, know no bounds. > > > > And justifiably so, because Hillary Clinton never made a corresponding remark, > which would have been outrageous. Hillary never said, the people who bombed OK > city are people who voted for George Bush. Never did Hillary suggest that or > say that. > > Bill Clinton spoke of people who listened to hate radio, in the days after the > OK bombing. > > Hillary at the beginning of impeachment spoke of a vast right wing conspiracy. > > Why you apply these separate statements about separate things to what you do, I > don't know. > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:36:10 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: oh? njc Clarification- heard her attribute OKC to "people who listen to right wing radio" not people who vote for Bush > Vince, I've personally heard the radio clip of Hillary saying it long ago. > I can't bring up an mp3 file to prove it to you, however. I've said all I > have to say on this. > > Kakki > > > kakki wrote: > > > > > How would you feel if Laura Bush came > > > out today and made the comment that "these members of Al Queda were the > same > > > people who voted for Al Gore and Bill Clinton." Your outrage would, > > > justifiably, know no bounds. > > > > > > > And justifiably so, because Hillary Clinton never made a corresponding > remark, > > which would have been outrageous. Hillary never said, the people who > bombed OK > > city are people who voted for George Bush. Never did Hillary suggest that > or > > say that. > > > > Bill Clinton spoke of people who listened to hate radio, in the days after > the > > OK bombing. > > > > Hillary at the beginning of impeachment spoke of a vast right wing > conspiracy. > > > > Why you apply these separate statements about separate things to what you > do, I > > don't know. > > > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:54:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: njc political things in the JMDL gosh vince i see why you are a very good public speaker! "Life is politics and politics is about life and in a community such as the JMDL which is fully involved in life, of course politics is going to be discussed. And that is especially true in that the members of this community are among the most aware, educated, involved, concerned, and caring communities anywhere. Kind of like a family." lol, i was thinking this very same thing!!!: vince "And is the general climate in here more favorable to Clinton than not? Perhaps. Is it less than favorable to Bush? I am sure that it is. But the sides are often more sharply drawn on DED and CMIAR vs Heijira and FTR, and Blue." & i agree that this is what makes this community & the discussions & the disagrements so valuable to me: vince "This is a community where easy opinions do not fly, where one will be pressed on what one says, and that is good - it is a part of the dialogue. It is a part of the growth. It is a part of the learning." i've been pressed & i have learned & THAT is what i love about this place & all of the wild diversity here... well said vince... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:39:45 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC **Gee Bob ... you could have converted all the people on the plane to love Joni's music ;-)** Heather, I was happy enough that they didn't confiscate any of the cd's...all those sharp edged objects, dontcha know, like a bag full o' ninja stars or something! ;~) Bob NP: Larry Goldings Trio, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:48:49 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Bob Muller searched NJC oh i could just see you in a long, blonde wig hurling those joni cd's!! what a good defense against terrorists! heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 10:40 PM To: chiaroscuro@snet.net; sharonbuffington@attbi.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC **Gee Bob ... you could have converted all the people on the plane to love Joni's music ;-)** Heather, I was happy enough that they didn't confiscate any of the cd's...all those sharp edged objects, dontcha know, like a bag full o' ninja stars or something! ;~) Bob NP: Larry Goldings Trio, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:46:18 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC I wrote, shamefully quoting myself but trying to keep things straight: >> In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after all. Lori responded with the admonition: Dammit Vince, don't you know by now that it's always the brown people of this world who cause all the problems??? and Michael Paz chimes in with: > I HAVE been told this (being of the brown persuasion) and by God you know I > think it's true or so some of me friends tell me. I have just become aware that Paz is from Michigan. When they start bombing the brownies, they may go for his native state! And of course, Michigan native and resident (he didn't move, Paz!!!!) Eminem has a few, shall we say, unkind things to say about the Cheneys and the Bush administration on his latest album and in the just completed tour - I wonder if the bombers are taxiing on the run way now, except Eminem isn't brown, but he hangs with all the African Americans, so that makes him honorary at least! Michigan, my Michigan, we are in trouble! I am going to the all night sun tan parlor, if the brown people cause all the problems, I want to look the part! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:03:10 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: njc political things in the JMDL I am glad you are here Vince!... :) You have a wonderful way with words Love and Peace....Sharon Kate Bennett wrote: > > gosh vince i see why you are a very good public speaker! > > "Life is politics and politics is about life and in a community such as > the JMDL which is fully involved in life, of course politics is going to > be discussed. And that is especially true in that the members of this > community are among the most aware, educated, involved, concerned, and > caring communities anywhere. Kind of like a family." > > lol, i was thinking this very same thing!!!: > > vince "And is the general climate in here more favorable to Clinton than > not? > Perhaps. Is it less than favorable to Bush? I am sure that it is. > But the sides are often more sharply drawn on DED and CMIAR vs Heijira > and FTR, and Blue." > > & i agree that this is what makes this community & the discussions & the > disagrements so valuable to me: > > vince "This is a community where easy opinions do not fly, where one will be > pressed on what one says, and that is good - it is a part of the > dialogue. It is a part of the growth. It is a part of the learning." > > i've been pressed & i have learned & THAT is what i love about this place & > all of the wild diversity here... > > well said vince... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:48:11 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush bashing and snide remarks - SJC In reply to what Lori wrote the other day: > > As for my snide remark, I think one or two should be allowed > > here every now and then to balance out the constantly ongoing > > flows of ones against Bush, no? Nothing personal. > > Kakki, you know I love you, but the above cracked me up. Here we are > on a list that began with admiration for and discussion about a woman > who wrote these words (which were, btw, beautifully sung by Alison and > Kay at Jonifest this year): > > And so once again > Oh, America my friend > And so once again > You are fighting us all > And when we ask you why > You raise your sticks and cry and we fall > Oh, my friend > How did you come > To trade the fiddle for the drum To this, I would reply that Fiddle and the Drum was young work by a politically naive young artist, expressing herself quite artistically, as usual, during the politically divisive Vietnam war. As far as I know, Joni is not widely regarded to this day as an expert on national or international affairs, so I do not really see how this song (I never did really get the "once again" part of the song) is of any relevance to this topic. > > You think we're going to say nice things about Bush and his ilk, all > clearly hawks who want nothing more than to (paraphrasing Fred Simon) > waive our big American dick around the Middle East? (Is it a > coincidence that Bush and Cheney are oil boys? I think not.) The only > sane person in the bunch *seems* to be Colin Powell. I found this to be a snide, obviously exaggerated and non-credible comment in the context of what is a very important topic that deserves more sincere and respectful treatment. A superior and more mature JM lyric to quote in the context of this discussion, IMO, would be Borderline: Everybody looks so ill at ease So distrustful so displeased Running down the table I see a borderline Like a barbed wire fence Strung tight strung tense Prickling with pretense A borderline Why are you smirking at your friend? Is this to be the night when All well-wishing ends? All credibility revoked? Thin skin thick jokes! Can we blame it on the smoke, This borderline? Every bristling shaft of pride Church or nation Team or tribe Every notion we subscribe to Is just a borderline Good or bad we think we know As if thinking makes things so! All convictions grow along a borderline Smug in your jaded expertise You scathe the wonder world And you praise barbarity In this illusionary place This scared hard-edged rat race All liberty is laced with Borderlines Every income every age Every fashion-plated rage Every measure every gauge Creates a borderline Every stone thrown through glass Every mean-streets-kick ass Every swan caught on the grass Will draw a borderline You snipe so steady You snub so snide So ripe and ready To diminish and deride! You're so quick to condescend My opinionated friend All you deface all you defend Is just a borderline Just a borderline Another borderline Just a borderline > I don't know the true numbers (time for another poll?), but I think > it's safe to say that more of us on the JMDL consider ourselves > liberals than not. So yeah, we're going to bash Bush and his boys. Count me in as right of center, please - and I dislike the arrogant demagogues like Hannity and Grant and Limbaugh. Are you implying that the entitlement to bash derives from strength in numbers ? Is that courageous ? > > Still, what we have to say, and how we say it, doesn't even come close > to the blatant, seething, disrespectful hatred of the Right toward > Clinton. And that was long before blow jobs and the meaning of "is." Lori, I am afraid I disagree. I found your comments above to be well within the same category, especially when you attribute the other badness to approximately half the country (you did not say 'far right', after all, just 'Right'. Considering Borderline, do you think Joni would approve of the tone of some of the remarks posted recently ? Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:00:59 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC Bob also kept humming Dod Eat Dog while he was being searched. They even made him take off his shoes and looked at his toenails painted with the words to Send In The Clowns. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:52:09 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Bob Muller searched NJC Yes but did they inspect the bottom of his feet? I heard he had the lyrics to DJRD henna painted on the bottom of his feet just for Jonifest. Rumor? Heather - -----Original Message----- From: Sharon L. Buffington [mailto:sharonbuffington@attbi.com] Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:01 PM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Cc: chiaroscuro@snet.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC Bob also kept humming Dod Eat Dog while he was being searched. They even made him take off his shoes and looked at his toenails painted with the words to Send In The Clowns. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:12:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: peace day njc i am trying to find that link about the protests against the war in washington & san francisco...can't find the link i thought i saved...does anyone have it? i've been invited to play next weekend (locally) at an event organized by some buddist monks called world peace day...does anyone know anything about this, you know whether its on a national or world level or ?... just wondering if there is any tie in to the protests... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:03:23 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: oh? njc Vince, I don't believe my post pointed to any one particular incident or post or thread. I was speaking generally about political posts on the JMDL since Bush took office and political threads here in general. And I stand by what I wrote. I am not going to get dragged into any finger-pointing bullshit about who said what when to whom. That kind of crap makes me absolutely crazy. So do not expect any further comment or response from me on this subject. With Familial Love, Your Perverse Cousin Mark E. > > Mark, I cannot agree with that premise. I'd hate to review all the trash that has said about Clinton in the JMDL through the years, but consider even this thread: originally someone posted how much they liked Clinton's appearance on Letterman. That was followed by several posts, several of which attacked Clinton for being too conservative, others which attacked Clinton for the Monica Lewinski thing, and one that spoke of a visceral dislike of Clinton, which post spoke badly of Clinton. I do not recall that there was much heat about any of those posts. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:10:43 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Twisted Chalkmark In a message dated 9/16/02 4:25:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: SC Joni Guy wrote: > To contrast, Cheech & Chong fit in brilliantly on "Twisted", there's > nothing on CMIARS that sounds that good. > > Bob > > Oh good grief ! What's with the Chalk Mark bashing ? :~) Not to mention Peter Gabriel bashing, et al bashing. OK, I bow down to the great recording artists "Cheech and Chong". Time to Run Fast, Mr. Mueller, I'm turning into a Wild Thing Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:12:44 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob Muller searched NJC In a message dated 9/16/02 10:11:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sharonbuffington@attbi.com writes: > Bob Muller ALWAYS gets searched before boarding planes. Katherine and I > had to stand by while he was searched in Cleveland. All the while he is > explaining to the security people, who have come across his big ass Does Bob have that big of an ass???? I thouht it was kinda cute :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:20:48 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC a > > staunch supporter of abortion rights? Partial birth abortion? A hunk? > > What the FUCK IS IT????!!!!!!!! This coming from someone who rarely curses. I was hot......I had to take a spin and listen to Joni....HOSL. This always works!! Okay.....I would like to make a few points. nt > > who was flawless in his private life but had much more destructive > > policies.Millions of people are affected by a presidents public > > .and to me so much of the >critisism is self righeous,sanctimonious and and hypocritical.How do we >know >what usually goes in people's provate lives? Well.....USUALLY we don't... unless it spills over. HE.....W.J. Clinton made it public. The oval office did not belong to him....he abused it.....he abused his authority....he took advantage of that girl. No matter what you think of Monica.....HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF HER!!!!!!! And you know there are more.....(screwing Joni's line) Many president's have had >affairs(Jfk,Johnson,eisenhower to name a few).It was even found out that >Newt >Gingrich,Clinton's one of harshest critics was.Clinton never should have >ansered the questions they asked him. Sure.....plenty of people have affairs and that is between the wife....girlfriend.... I don't care what people do in their bedrooms. If Hillary can stomach him, that is her business. But he made a lot of his shenanigans our business. The main allegation against him I will not even get into here because it is just too inflamatory.....but I find it very credible!! No.....I don't respect him..like him.....and I never will!! Bree _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:23:18 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc Hi Mags, > i know that some people on this list don't post out in the open for > fear of getting their hands slapped or their opinions slammed down like > some basketball. Is this why we have so many lurkers?? Yes, partly, and many others who have simply left. > Where is the happy medium? Is there one? Can we speak our piece without > fear? If not, why not? can we listen and learn? agree to disagree? We did here at one time. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:27:45 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: peace day njc Kate writes: > i've been invited to play next weekend (locally) at an event organized by some buddist monks called world peace day...does anyone know anything about this < Kate, this is so weird . . . As you may have heard, I have been supporting myself since Jonifest as an Ethel Merman impersonator. It's hell on the old voice box, honey, but I love the hats! And I always keep my tip jar within spittin' distance, if you know what I mean. But anyway, the really weird part is . . . some local Buddist monks with wicked Boston accents called me and asked me to sing at their World Peace Day too. Small world, isn't it? Small and funny and fine . . . Good night, ladies and gentlemen. - --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #373 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)