From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #372 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 372 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: letterman and clinton - njc ["Lori in MD" ] Re: letterman and clinton - njc ["Lori in MD" ] njc political things in the JMDL [vince ] bombing Michigan NJC [vince ] Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: "hunk" politicians (NJC) [Lazyasz@aol.com] bits and pieces ["Amelio Alamo" ] Re: Clinton, "hunk" politicians, and running (NJC) ["mack watson-bush" ] New Landmine Free World Tourdates -news about the other Bruce NJC [Mags ] Re: "hunk" politicians (NJC) ["mack watson-bush" ] MINGUS: my two cents, 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: bombing Michigan NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Just a JMDL question, please help NJC [Michael Paz ] Sir Paul McCartney On Tour, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Rich and fay/fey/ofay [Catherine McKay ] Re: Ponette and Children NJC [Michael Paz ] RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay ["Heather" ] Re: Stones in Chicago njc [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:28:30 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc > i'm really tired of the bush bashing we have on this list Speaking for myself as a lesbian, and for any and all other bush lovers as well, please, no bush bashing on this list! Ouch! ; ) L. ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:41:16 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc Lori in MD wrote: > > i'm really tired of the bush bashing we have on this list > > Speaking for myself as a lesbian, and for any and all other bush lovers > as well, please, no bush bashing on this list! i was about to eat....... > > > Ouch! > > ; ) > > L. > > ~ - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:33:44 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc > sexual preference cannot be lumped in here-it isn't a choice. Well now, Colin, of course SOME of it must be! To prefer to have sex, or not to have sex. To prefer S/M, or D/S, or B/D, or not. Et cetera ... Oh, you were talking about being queer? You're right, that's not a choice. Lori, born that way ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) well now that Anne's brought it up, I'd like to ask everyone to keep her close in your thoughts, prayers, and send her energy and courageous thoughts today, tomorrow, Wednesday and for many days following when she will need us the most. lighting candles every day. with love and strength, MagsnBrian. - --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off > for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to > Wednesday's surgery. Let's hope the third time's the > charm. (It's my third major surgery in as many years to > remove a stubborn tumor that keeps recurring.) > > I'll be back after I get home from the hospital. Feel > free to gossip about me when I'm away :-) [that should > result is a resounding silence LOL!] > > I hope for peace and health, both here and in the world > in general. My best to all of you. > > lots of love > Anne ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:58:23 -0500 From: "brian symes" Subject: Past Shadows and Lights For the lister who does not listen to the later Joni, I must inform you that you cannot see Joni from both sides. To really know her you must follow her thru her life as more than just a high voice in the upstairs choir. Please go and purchase the CD's listed and learn to love her work in the Turbulent 80's/90's. WTRF,"Chinese Cafe" sits me down in old diner back in Detroit with my Dad's 57 DeSoto out front, Listen to "Man to Man" and Finally "Love" Her voice still sounds the same as back on Hejira. DED "Impossible Dreamer" she is pushing the popular song formula, "Lucky Girl" is a little jewel that ends smiling like a good ending to a Love story. CMINAR" My Secret Place" is like a western movie, I wish some screenwriter would use this song as a plot for one, and "Dancin Clown' Joni must have had fun recording that one. NRH the Title song Is one of my favorites. It takes me back to driving home every summer thru the Ontario farm land rolling and disapearing in the evening haze with those crickets in a continuous symphony, not to mention "The Only Joy in Town" and "Cherroke Louise" which are incredible songs. Brian, JM fan from 67 till whenever my canvas unrolls to the end. NP Jonatha Brooke, At the Still Point - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:00:53 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc political things in the JMDL Life is politics and politics is about life and in a community such as the JMDL which is fully involved in life, of course politics is going to be discussed. And that is especially true in that the members of this community are among the most aware, educated, involved, concerned, and caring communities anywhere. Kind of like a family. I don't buy the "liberal" vs "conservative" dichotomy. I think that is purely false and diverts us away from that the vast majority of us are far more complex than that. In time past we have had exchanges on Columbine, Kosovo, impeachment, global warming, Kyoto accords, war crimes, the IMF and the world economy, the 2000 primary season, the 2000 election, the Florida situation, Palestine and Israel, and September 11th, and all that has come after, along with many connecting issues. Kind of like a family that talks to each other rather than just stare at each other. For sheer heat, I don't anything has ever matched the flame war the erupted over Columbine, and from this distance, it is hard recall why that was so. But it was very emotional. People have said things in love, hurt, pain, anger, bewilderment, confusion, reaction, retaliation, and humor. Kind of like a family... At times different people have been so hit up by things that they decide to quit the JMDL, and on occasion, a few have, although more often, people lay low and lurk for a while and then return when they feel comfortable. I have been one of those. But far more, this community is perhaps the best equipped ever to deal with the red hot issues of the day than almost any other community, cyber or not. That which binds us is far greater than that which separates us. And anyone who doesn't learn things in the exchanges that happen here, well, they are not trying. I never come away from an exchange in the JMDL on events of the day, political as they may be, without learning a lot. A lot. I learn from the incredible shades of opinions that are offered, the various prisms of experience that speak to the topic at hand, the many reflections of insights and knowledge that are shared in here. Here in the JMDL, unique in my experience in the cyber world and second only to a global mission event to which I once annually attended, is a collective wisdom and extraordinarily diverse and global experience. Kind of like a very large and loving family. The reason we post on political issues is in part exactly because we want to learn from each other. Kind of like a family. The reason we post on these things is because we need each other in those situations. For many of us, when a news event happens that has major significance, this is one of the first places we go to. Kind of like a family. This is the place where one can grow by being a part of the exchanges, even just by reading them. Kind of like a family. Yes, sometimes - often - "sides" develop and in my JMDL experience, no one is ever always on the majority "side." But "sides" are more an internal creation for us as individuals than the reality that is in here. Look at what has been posted on Clinton since the Letterman show - - if you really look at the posts, there has been an incredible array of opinion. Human nature wants to reduce it "pro" and :con" but you can't really reduce to that way. A challenge: get those posts back out and try and reduce the various comments to two categories, or even 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 - you can't. And is the general climate in here more favorable to Clinton than not? Perhaps. Is it less than favorable to Bush? I am sure that it is. But the sides are often more sharply drawn on DED and CMIAR vs Heijira and FTR, and Blue. Kind of like a family. Sometimes feelings do get hurt. Mine have been, sometimes (although always in retrospect that embarrasses me, because, hey, grow up, Vince). Others have been hurt. And then this community tends to be very caring and healing in those situations. Kind of like a family. As long as all the discussion is NJC - of course there are those who don't want any political discussion at all, our Joni-onlies. And look at our subject titles - I think JMDLers are very good about identifying which are "political" posts and which aren't just be reading titles in the inbox, and things can be deleted before reading. I don't buy the "liberal" vs "conservative" dichotomy. I think that is purely false and diverts us away from that the vast majority of us are far more complex than that. Take the issue of choice, a subject we have had heat on: is it liberal to support a woman's right to choose, or is it conservative, that the government has no business intruding into the private life of an individual? And how many degrees of perspective do we in the JMDL have on the whole issue? I'd say on this, s on everything, we run 180 degrees on any issue on a scale, on maybe, the full 360 on a scale, but never "this side" vs "that side." This community is too informed, too diverse, too knowing, too intelligent for that. Kind of like a family. For those who have been around for a long time especially, knowing who else is a member of this community, we know before we post stuff that some things are going to get certain reactions. Kind of like a family. Like in Casablanca, are we shocked, shocked when certain things posted get responses? It has nothing to do with politics or liberal vs conservative, to make some of the assertions that have been made in here, there is going to be a response, demanding sources, demanding verification. And that is a sign of respect. If we thought someone was a loon,. no one would respond (just like when I post on Eminem!). We just ignore our crazy uncle. But we engage in conversation with our cousin, or sibling, whom we love. Kind of like a family. And I have learned more from the people in this community than I have learned almost anywhere else, and I would be so bereft, I'd be left to my own myopic opinions, if this community did not exist to constantly challenge, inform, inspire, excite, teach, lead, and guide me. Sometimes that happens when I am challenged and I am forced to defend what I have said, and I realize my own failings, either in my opinion, or in my way of expressing it, or somewhere else. And then I grow. This is a community where easy opinions do not fly, where one will be pressed on what one says, and that is good - it is a part of the dialogue. It is a part of the growth. It is a part of the learning. And we need each other for that, to talk freely and share what is within us, for that makes the openness of this community a loving, caring, growing place. Kind of like the best family we ever dreamed had, and didn't find until we came here. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:24:24 -0400 From: vince Subject: bombing Michigan NJC Randy Remote wrote: > Actually, Colin, they first tried to blame it on middle Eastern > terrorists, until the trail led to McVeigh. Curiously, they did not > bomb Michigan (or wherever he's from) when this was discovered. McVeigh is originally from upstate NY (I think, that is what memory says) but fell in with the Nichols family in Michigan's thumb area, a place of very strong Michigan Militia involvement, which is where he spent a lot of time and where the OK bombings were planned, if not thought up, and where practice was held. > I have heard some credible arguments on Amy Goodman's > Democracy Now (left wing radio at it's finest) that witnesses > including a pizza delivery guy saw McVeigh in a hotel room with > some middle-eastern looking men. So maybe he didn't act alone. > We should probably just bomb everything to be on the safe side. Or at least bomb hotels? Hotels where pizzas are delivered? As Pete Seger said, when will they ever learn... "middle eastern looking men." In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after all. Thus Sacco and Vanzetti got executed and thousands of Italians were deported. What is happening today is nothing new. The size of the September 11th horror was new, I should say, modern technology allows evil to have a greater harvest,, but terror scares are nothing new. Denial of civil rights to suspects is nothing new. People identifying "them" is nothing new, whether it be "middle eastern looking men" (by people who have never seen one outside of a tv show) or "Italians" in the Palmer Raids days or whatever. "Jewish looking people" get identified a lot, too a lot in history., After the Titanic sunk, there was much testimony by First Class survivors that they were offended by all the Italian stewards who were smoking cigarettes after the last life boats were off, I mean, these poor offended souls in the lifeboats were shocked that the doomed stewards on board would smoke at a time like that!!!! and you could tell by looking at them that they were Italian, no Brit would smoke in public! The fact that there was not one Italian steward on the Titanic did not disturb the identifications of the same. Vince, Italian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:43:23 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) anne, sending you lots & lots of love & healing ... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:43:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: letterman and clinton - njc i am enjoying hearing from everyone on this issue...what a suprise to get 3 digests over the weekend!!! i love everyone's thoughts & the passion! many are posting who we haven't heard from in some time... take a step back from the whole thing for just a second and observe... from where i am standing its kind of cool... i know this analogy might seems silly to many but its like a garden filled with all kinds of different flowers...& its a beautiful thing...lol ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:36:39 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: RE: "hunk" politicians (NJC) John Kerry!!! Hunky and democratic! And seemingly a nice guy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:44:46 +0100 From: "Amelio Alamo" Subject: bits and pieces Wow lot's been going on lateley. Just been trying to find the time... Yes, Chris Marshall very kindly sent me a CDR of the 'Hissing demos' too. Wow very good. Can't stop listening. 'Harry's House' really works well just on acoustic guitar. 'Dreamland' is very different and I like it. Really really like 'In France...', sounds less pop. Thanks again Chris, so nice of you. Since everyone has something to say about Clinton or Bush thought I'd better give my say. I'n not American but since what ever America do now might effect the UK I think I have the right. I'll keep it short! I thought Clinton was a good president and whatever he did in his personal life was nobody's business but his unless it was illegal or something. When he was in power everything seemed to go along quite nicely. Now, that Bush! I wouldn't trust any politician as far as I could... but he really does seem quite fake. I heard somewhere that in his home state he put more people to death than any senator! Yeah I think he is going to take things too far. Those are my thoughts anyway and I think everyone is entitled to free speech. Okay about Joni's later albums (80's to BSN). Like some of WTRF especially 'Chinese Cafe...', 'Moon At The Window' and 'Love...'. DED; the title track,'Impossible Dreamer' and 'Smokin' are okay but the album as a whole really isn't up to Joni standards in my books. Mmm, CMIRS; Don't mind 'The Beat Of...' and 'Reocuring Dream' and I really like her version 'Corina Corina'. No synth yay. The rest though hurts my ears. Love most of NRH. TI I think is one of her best. TTT is very original but I think her voice lets it down for the first time. BSN...just can't listen to it. I think as a whole though it's not as consistent as her 60's and 70's stuff but yeah you do need it to complete the picture 'cost there are some really good songs here. Just my view anyway. I'm sure there is more I wanted to say but I Can't remember! I'm new to the list but I wish Anne all the best. STEVE T. _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:04:58 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Clinton, "hunk" politicians, and running (NJC) Yes, yes, yes, yes Lori. Ann Richards for president. I would be almost as happy with Dianne Feinstein. mack I'll take Ann Richards. ; D > > Lori > > ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:06:59 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after > all. Dammit Vince, don't you know by now that it's always the brown people of this world who cause all the problems??? Lori, not one bit serious, but whose parents were fairly convinced of such ridiculousness -- and they REALLY didn't like Italians!!! ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:40:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: New Landmine Free World Tourdates -news about the other Bruce NJC for the "other" Bruce fans, sorry Rosalita ;-) - --- cockburnproject wrote: > To: cockburn-news@yahoogroups.com > From: "cockburnproject" > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:31:13 -0000 > Subject: [cockburn-news] New Landmine Free World Tourdates > > ____________________ > news from > the cockburn project > at > www.cockburnproject.net > > 16 September 2002 > > Greetings! > > True North sent this announcement of new tour dates today which > represent a continuation of the Campaign for a Landmine Free World > benefit shows. All of you in the southern US will be thrilled! Read > > on: > > > NOV 6 RALEIGH NC MEYMANDI HALL * > NOV 7 ASHEVILLE NC THOMAS WOLFE AUDITORIUM * > NOV 8 ATLANTA GA THE TABERNACLE * > NOV 9 KNOXVILLE TN THE TENNESSEE THEATRE * > NOV 10 BIRMINGHAM AL THE ALABAMA THEATRE * > > *CAMPAIGN FOR A LANDMINE FREE WORLD BENEFIT SHOWS > > Keep those submissions coming in and check out all the updated > setlists in our 'Setlists' section at The Cockburn Project. We've > got lots of new things in the wings so keep checking back often. > > Peace, > Suzanne Myers > editor@cockburnproject.net > > > > ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:18:22 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: "hunk" politicians (NJC) Hooray for that. Or Bob Kerrey. Both good choices. Mack > John Kerry!!! > > Hunky and democratic! And seemingly a nice guy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:19:21 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: "hunk" politicians (NJC) Ooops. I meant presidential candidates. As for hunky, apples and oranges. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "MINGUS", reviewed in downbeat magazine, part 2 of 2, 100% JC There should be no question that Joni Mitchell can perform as a credible, and here excellent, jazz singer. Her version of Annie Ross' "Twisted" some years back was presentiment: Joni is the closest thing we have in the '70s to the rangy, pristine tone and cool distance Ross embodied. Listen to the big band-backed "Dry Cleaner;" it's really Joni's "Farmers' Market," right down to the invitingly hip lyrics she's spun on a tiny, nonsensical topic. (The song follows a vignette of Mingus saying, "I'm not rich, but I always had a few coins in my pocket." It's about a small businessman from Iowa on a hot streak in Vegas, and in perfect Ross style, Joni sings, "He's got three oranges, three lemons, three plums-I'm losin' my taste for fruit.") On "Porkpie Hat" she caresses the ballad with a gentle reminder of Billie Holiday: that sweetly plummeting glissando Lady Day often used, like her voice was falling off a hill. Joni has taken brilliant bits of phrasing from these women, but mostly retains her own unique style, and the combination is devastating. I suppose my complaints center on the first side, which is somber, if not really depressing. After a boozy "Happy Birthday" comes the Joni-Jaco duet of "Boogie Man," which suffers some from the bass guitarist's picturesque, but by now well-worn explosions of harmonics. After that, a backstage tape of Mingus discussing his own funeral, and the difficult "Chair In The Sky": difficult because of the freely episodic melody, but worth the effort. (This was reportedly Mingus' last composition, and it deserves full orchestration.) There is a bit too much melodrama here, a touch that is perhaps too heavy. It bogs a bit, though it offers important music and sentiment. But the second side is perfect. "Sweet Sucker Dance" is a love song to life: "We move in measures/Through love's changing faces like it was only a dance." "Dry Cleaner" has so much zest and fun and it's a perfect set-up for "Porkpie Hat," the masterpiece. Joni's lyrics, quite frankly, are profound: in the first five words, she manages to weave the song's original subject (Lester Young) and its composer into an epic framework of great emotional power: == "When Charlie speaks of Lester You know someone great has gone The sweetest swinging music man Had a Porky Pig hat on A bright star in a dark age When the bandstands had a thousand ways of Refusing A black man Admission. Black musicians In those days they put him in an underdog position. Cellars and chitlins..." == After a fascinating mid-section development of both melody and words, she weighs in with this: "We came up from the subway/ On the music midnight makes/To Charlie's bass and Lester's saxophone/In taxi horns and brakes / Now Charlie's down in Mexico/ With the healers...." This is the poetry Joni Mitchell has been away from too long. In a way, what Mingus did for Lester in writing that song, Joni has done for Mingus in making this album. She gave her best on this one, and it's proved to be more than enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lama, having lit the fuse, steps back to watch the fireworks. Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "MINGUS", reviewed in downbeat magazine, part 1 of 2, 100% JC Damn it! I'm gonna set the record straight on "MINGUS" once and for all!! The legendary jazz magazine, 'downbeat', published a review of Joni's "MINGUS" on 8/9/1979. Out of a possible high score of five stars, Leonard Feather gave it... (wait for it).... 5 stars. That bears repeating. downbeat gave it 5/5. Rather than believe Joni, let's refresh our memories, class. Please read the article silently, as I read it aloud. Leonard Feather said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a wonderful piece of work. From all reports, the trepidation in Joni Mitchell's heart as to how this project might be accepted has been matched only by the skepticism of scores of jazz purists. But the proof is here, and Joni and her critics can forget their fears. Mingus is so ambitious, so painstakingly constructed and so special, that even in those moments when the deed fails, the thought carries the day. And when it all clicks as on "Porkpie Hat", which, after three hearings, I can no longer listen to dry-eyed--it soars with the breadth and majesty Mingus so often achieved. Perhaps the ultimate crossover concept- one of rock/folk/pop's most revered women dedicating a document to one of jazz's true geniuses- MINGUS is really a collaboration. On four of the songs, the late bassist supplied the music and Joni wrote the lyrics; her words for the improvisatory, often non-strophic melodies make this the first real advance in the jazz art of vocalese since Lambert, Hendricks & Ross. For "God Must Be A Boogie Man," Joni wrote the music but adapted the lyrics from the famous first chapter of Mingus' autobiography, finding the hidden rhymes in his colorful prose ("He is three -one's in the middle unmoved/ Waiting to show what he sees to the other two"), The only song that sounds out of place is "Wolf", a not untypical Mitchell tale of a young man with darkness in his soul. But even this gains some validity from the fact that Mingus heard it and approved its sentiments before its inclusion on the album. The subject probably shouldn't come up, but for the record, this IS a jazz date. The particulars have precedent. For instance, it has long been jazz practice for a soloist to hire a working unit as sidemen, but to omit the leader (to solidify the soloist's own leadership); on MINGUS, Joni is backed, essentially, by Weather Report without its leader, Joe Zawinul. More important, on the more conventional tunes that make up the second side, the band follows normal jazz style, wherein the improvised accompaniment makes the melody's outlines blurry and subtle. The spare format gives a clear view of Hancock's empathic backing. There is also innovation. The lead instrument on most tracks, besides Joni's voice, is Pastorius' bass, mixed high and booming along as a supple, full-bodied counterpoint-much the role usually taken by a horn. (By contrast, Hancock is mixed at middle depth and Shorter, despite a coy, coltish solo on "Dry Cleaner," offers small/effective moans as if from another studio.) Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:37:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: over the line imho NJC --- Lori in MD wrote: > > We should probably just bomb everything to be on > the safe side. > > What is it that Fred Simon always writes? > > "You say falafel, I say falafel. > You say salaam, I say shalom. > Falafel, falafel, salaam, shalom ... > Let's blow the whole thing up!" > > > Lori, > quite a fan of Fred's Or, in the words of Randy Newman: No one likes us I don't know why. We may not be perfect But heaven knows we try. But all around even our old friends put us down. Let's drop the big one and see what happens. We give them money But are they grateful? No they're spiteful And they're hateful. They don't respect us so let's surprise them; We'll drop the big one and pulverize them. Now Asia's crowded And Europe's too old. Africa's far too hot, And Canada's too cold. And South America stole our name. Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us. Bridge: We'll save Australia; Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo. We'll build an all-American amusement park there; They've got surfing, too. Well, boom goes London, And boom Paris. More room for you And more room for me. And every city the whole world round Will just be another American town. Oh, how peaceful it'll be; We'll set everybody free; You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby, There'll be Italian shoes for me. They all hate us anyhow, So let's drop the big one now. Let's drop the big one now. ("Political Science", 1972) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: MINGUS: my two cents, 100% JC Okay, a few things popped up while I was proof-reading the downbeat review. One. When I played the "SHADOWS AND LIGHT" video version of "Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" for my father, he said, "Hey! It's 'Farmer's Market'!" Indeed. As I read Leonard saying the same thing, I felt the hairs on the back of my neck go wacky and my eyes started filling up. Yeah. What he said. Not bad for a "folky chick with a 6-string". Two. This article is not on jmdl yet. I found it at http://www.jonimitchell.com/downbeat79.html Three: The Personnel is: Mitchell, guitar and vocals; Jaco Pastorius, bass guitar; Herbie Hancock, electric piano; Wayne Shorter, soprano sax; Peter Erskine, drums; Don Alias, congas, percussion; Emil Richards, percussion; unidentified horns. arranged by Pastorius (cut 9). I had forgotten that Peter Erskine went that far back with our heroine. If you swap Brian in for Don and Larry in for Jaco, it looks like a very familiar lineup, eh? And a lineup that we will soon hear anew very shortly indeed! Four. Joni has been telling anyone who will listen, for decades now, that her fans didn't like MINGUS and the Jazz community didn't like MINGUS. Bullshit. Leonard Feather said, >>>>>>> ..... Her words for the improvisatory, often non-strophic melodies make this the first real advance in the jazz art of vocalese since Lambert, Hendricks & Ross." >>>>>>> That's my opinion. And the opinion of downbeat magazine. Isn't it a shame that NO ONE LIKED THIS ALBUM!?!?!?!? CAN WE PLEASE STOP LISTENING TO JONI ON THIS TOPIC?!?!?!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:46:39 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC Vince writes: > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after > > all. Look how far we've come! These days, Italian-looking men are only suspected of being in the Mafia! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:48:54 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Just a JMDL question, please help NJC Great point Bob! And so you see folks this is only one fo the many reasons that I am a BobwannaBe. It really is easier to deal with and if you use an email prof like entourage or outlook express where you can direct your mail into different folders than you can keep it all straight and deal with when you have time. My Joni folder gets pretty stuffed sometimes, but it's always comforting to know that I have some place to go that I can call home besides this house which I call home but sometimes don't wanna be cause I am in the dog house or hot water which is why they call me the "Gumbo Crab" cause I am always in hot water. Peace Michael on 9/15/02 6:16 PM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **When I send a discussion topic out into cyberspace often people respond > quite quickly, sometimes within minutes...how is this possible?** > > Erica, Lori gave you the details on how to convert to "the list" from "the > digest". For what it's worth, if you're really wanting to hunker down and get > into the discussions, it's the only way to go. > > It SEEMS overwhelming at first, especially now that things are picking up. I > actually find it EASIER to handle individual messages as opposed to trying to > handle a digest that takes a while to read and, well, digest. Deleting for me > is easier than scrolling, plus, you get the messages instantly instead of > waiting a day or so. > > Give it a try, and you can always return to digest-land should you choose to > do so. > > Bob > > NP: Dave Van Ronk, "Both Sides Now", dedicated to my pal Jimmy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:57:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC --- vince wrote: > I have heard some credible arguments on Amy > Goodman's > > Democracy Now (left wing radio at it's finest) > that witnesses > > including a pizza delivery guy saw McVeigh in a > hotel room with > > some middle-eastern looking men. So maybe he > didn't act alone. > > We should probably just bomb everything to be on > the safe side. > > Or at least bomb hotels? Hotels where pizzas are > delivered? > > As Pete Seger said, when will they ever learn... > > "middle eastern looking men." In the terrorism of > late 1919 through the early > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > constant suspects, they were all > terrorists, after all. Thus Sacco and Vanzetti got > executed and thousands of > Italians were deported. What is happening today is > nothing new. Vince, I'm glad you brought this up, because I was going to respond the first time the issue of the pizza delivery guy came up, but didn't get around to it. If a person can be thought of as "guilty" just because they *look* middle-Eastern/Italian/whatever, then God help us all. Shortly after Sept 11/01, when people were spotting white powder everywhere (I've told you about my own experience with this last October, on a day when it seems lots of people in Toronto made similar discoveries), I had some of my staff coming to me worried about the "middle-Eastern"-looking courier guy we had, or the delivery guy with the turban, or whatever. It just so happens that a number of the couriers we use are freelancers who work for this one company and they drive their own cars and they don't wear uniforms and, yeah, some of them are "Arab-looking" or "Middle-Eastern-looking", or maybe even "Italian-looking" or they've got dark skin and beards and gee, some of them wear turbans. And all of a sudden they're all potential terrorists? And the pizza-delivery guy, who would most likely be ignored in normal times, becomes this apparently credible witness all of a sudden, because people are looking for something to hang their fear on. How frightening. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:05:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Sir Paul McCartney On Tour, njc Tickets are available at Ticketmaster. Presumably, they still charge $10 for the privledge of making a purchase, then mail the tickets at the last possible moment in what looks like an envelope of junk mail. The face value of Mister McCartney's concert ticket: $50 to $250 per seat, without parking. I'm tempted but I know it couldn't be as good as JoniFest in New Orleans '00, nor as good as Saturday night in Big Indian this year. No offense, Paul. I just come from a different set of circumstance. Lama Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:08:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Rich and fay/fey/ofay W.C. Handy, I'm rich and I'm fey... If anyone can stand any more on this subject! I checked all three words in the dictionaries we have at work, i.e., the Concise Oxford dictionary, 10th edition and the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, as well as Martindale's on the web - this is heaven for word-freaks, as it gives you all kinds of resources, not just on words but on anything! Fay - (noun) fairy (origin Middle English, from Old French, fae, faie from Latin fata, the Fates (N.B. the French word for fairy is "fee, avec un accent aigu sur le e, pronounced "fay" - or is it "fey"? C'est la meme chose!) Bartleby's - got there via martindale's - now there's a place to go if you wanna look stuff up! One thing leads to another and much time can be wasted (wasted?) looking things up. (P.S., I did this at work heh-heh-heh.) http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/~martindale/Ref.html then chose the American Heritage Dictionary... Fay - NOUN: A fairy or an elf. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English faie, enchanted person or place, from Old French fae. See fairy . (source - The American Heritage. Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000.) Fey - (per the Oxford Concise) (adj) Unwordly and vague; having clairvoyant powers (origin Old English, faege,of Gmc. origin) (The Oxford Canadian dictionary has the same definition for "fay", but adds to the meaning of "fey" as follows (must be all those Scots we have living here in Canada!): "having a strange, almost other-wordly, whimsical charm; (usually ironic or derogatory) affected; Scottish - fated to die soon; overxcited or elated, as formerly associated with the state of mind of a person about to die." The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000. fey. ...Having or displaying an otherworldly, magical, or fairylike aspect or quality: She's got that fey look as though she's had breakfast with a leprechaun (Dorothy Burnham).... Now, on to "ofay": Ofay - US a derogatory term for a white person used by black people - origin, 1920s from "au fait", in the sense "genteel". (this from the Oxford concise.) The Canadian Oxford (although still an Oxford) gives this origin as being 20th c. probably of African origin.) Bartleby's website, under The American Heritage. Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000 "Ofay NOUN: Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a white person. ETYMOLOGY: Possibly of West African origin. WORD HISTORY: The commonly seen etymology of ofay-Pig Latin for foe-is of less interest than the more likely story of this word's origins. The word, which is first recorded in the first quarter of the 20th century, must have been in use much longer if it is, as some scholars think, borrowed from an African source. Although this source has not been pinned down, the suggested possibilities are in themselves interesting. One would trace it to the Ibibio word afia, "white or light-colored." Another would have it come from Yoruba ofe, a word that was said in order to protect oneself from danger. The term was then transferred to white people, regarded as a danger to Black people throughout the wretched days of slavery and beyond." (As for me, I think "fey" is the most likely - I always thought it referred to Joni's saying she's rich and a bit of a flake.) Then here's another possible explanation (My own): Is there a WC handy? I have to pee like crazy or I'm going to wet my pants (tequila anaconda anyone?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:17:46 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Ponette and Children NJC Hi Joseph Thanks for the recommendations. I have been watching a few movies lately and have enjoyed a couple that I was kind of surprised at. The first one is called "Shipping News" with Kevin Spacey. What a weird and wonderful movie in a twisted sort of way. I really got into all the characters of this one and Spacey I thought was really good in this even thought he made me crazy in the process. There were several really humorous scenes in the movie that I am reluctant to post in case someone does not like to hear them before they see them. The second one is "DragonFly" with Kevin Costner (whom I can't stand even thought I also loved the movie "Waterworld" only because I loved the tri-maran he was sailing and the thought of so much water, but I....) and that was sort of a shitty movie as a whole and poorly received. "Dragonfly" I had figured out what happened to the wife very early on but it had an amount of fantasy and absurd reality that I always find appealing when I watch films. I love something that makes me forget who I am for awhile and takes me out of my own reality and puts me somewhere else (which I guess is why I like science fiction so much). But then it's always fun to watch a film with great dialogue so you can just sit back and eavesdrop on someone's conversation. I am looking forward to watching a movie later called "Salmonberries" with KD Lang (whom I love in song but have never seen in film). Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised and she is as good in film as she is in song. Best Michael on 9/16/02 4:09 AM, jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph at jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph wrote: > I just watched this 1996 French film PONETTE. What a great film that > showed the coping mechanism of a 4-year old girl (played by Victoire > Thivisol) from the death of her mother. The film brilliantly showed the > range of colors of grief and of the stories the adults tell to kids to > simplify life's mysteries. A very very moving tale despite the rather > jarring ending (methinks directeur Jacques Doillon did not know how to end > his film, much like Niccol with his otherwise absorbing SIMONE). > > And my, what a very very sublime performance from a 4-year old actress. > Thivisol who also appeared as the daughter of Juliette Binoche in CHOCOLAT > and LES ENFANTS DU SIECLE, has this rarest of ability among children to > break anyone's hearts with a quiver of her upper lip and when her eyes > well with tears. I don't know how she was directed by Doillon because its > as if the camera is like a voyeur to her subsequent actions. When she > tearfully slides up and down the car's hood after being told by her father > that her mother died has got to be the most heartbreaking scene that > paralleled Fernanda Montenegro's last scene in CENTRO DO BRASIL. > > There is really something about child actors that are so endearingly > honest. I don't know if they are playing characters because the director > tells them so, or because of their lack of self-consciousness they give > natural performances. For me, Thivisol easily eclipsed the films I watched > with children as protagonists: from Leaud in 400 BLOWS to Jamie Bell in > BILLY ELLIOTT. > > > Joseph in Manila > np: Maire Brennan - Misty Eyed Adventures ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:23:58 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: bombing Michigan NJC Yes ... my husband is Italian and we're either getting searched before boarding planes or people coming up to my husband asking him if he can "arrange things" for them. Seriously ... only the first part is true. We got searched both going and coming back from out west. We thought for sure it was because of my husband's looks. I kept telling him to take off the damn sun glasses! Terrorism has turned our world up-side-down. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:47 PM To: lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com|; "Lori in MD"; revrvl@chartermi.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: bombing Michigan NJC Vince writes: > In the terrorism of late 1919 through the early > > 1920s, it was "Italian looking men" who were the > > constant suspects, they were all terrorists, after > > all. Look how far we've come! These days, Italian-looking men are only suspected of being in the Mafia! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 20:26:18 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Rich and fay/fey/ofay I elect that we give Catherine an "A" for research! Excellent job! And on that note, maybe we can Fey-nish with this subject ;-) Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 8:09 PM To: Jonilist Subject: Rich and fay/fey/ofay W.C. Handy, I'm rich and I'm fey... If anyone can stand any more on this subject! I checked all three words in the dictionaries we have at work, i.e., the Concise Oxford dictionary, 10th edition and the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, as well as Martindale's on the web - this is heaven for word-freaks, as it gives you all kinds of resources, not just on words but on anything! Fay - (noun) fairy (origin Middle English, from Old French, fae, faie from Latin fata, the Fates (N.B. the French word for fairy is "fee, avec un accent aigu sur le e, pronounced "fay" - or is it "fey"? C'est la meme chose!) Bartleby's - got there via martindale's - now there's a place to go if you wanna look stuff up! One thing leads to another and much time can be wasted (wasted?) looking things up. (P.S., I did this at work heh-heh-heh.) http://www-sci.lib.uci.edu/~martindale/Ref.html then chose the American Heritage Dictionary... Fay - NOUN: A fairy or an elf. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English faie, enchanted person or place, from Old French fae. See fairy . (source - The American Heritage. Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000.) Fey - (per the Oxford Concise) (adj) Unwordly and vague; having clairvoyant powers (origin Old English, faege,of Gmc. origin) (The Oxford Canadian dictionary has the same definition for "fay", but adds to the meaning of "fey" as follows (must be all those Scots we have living here in Canada!): "having a strange, almost other-wordly, whimsical charm; (usually ironic or derogatory) affected; Scottish - fated to die soon; overxcited or elated, as formerly associated with the state of mind of a person about to die." The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000. fey. ...Having or displaying an otherworldly, magical, or fairylike aspect or quality: She's got that fey look as though she's had breakfast with a leprechaun (Dorothy Burnham).... Now, on to "ofay": Ofay - US a derogatory term for a white person used by black people - origin, 1920s from "au fait", in the sense "genteel". (this from the Oxford concise.) The Canadian Oxford (although still an Oxford) gives this origin as being 20th c. probably of African origin.) Bartleby's website, under The American Heritage. Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000 "Ofay NOUN: Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a white person. ETYMOLOGY: Possibly of West African origin. WORD HISTORY: The commonly seen etymology of ofay-Pig Latin for foe-is of less interest than the more likely story of this word's origins. The word, which is first recorded in the first quarter of the 20th century, must have been in use much longer if it is, as some scholars think, borrowed from an African source. Although this source has not been pinned down, the suggested possibilities are in themselves interesting. One would trace it to the Ibibio word afia, "white or light-colored." Another would have it come from Yoruba ofe, a word that was said in order to protect oneself from danger. The term was then transferred to white people, regarded as a danger to Black people throughout the wretched days of slavery and beyond." (As for me, I think "fey" is the most likely - I always thought it referred to Joni's saying she's rich and a bit of a flake.) Then here's another possible explanation (My own): Is there a WC handy? I have to pee like crazy or I'm going to wet my pants (tequila anaconda anyone?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:29:37 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Stones in Chicago njc Ok Rose if your gonna whine about it I will try and help you but you have to play nice now! OH behave! BTW this past weekend Mikey helped me clean out some of my drawers (desk drawers BOB!) and we went thru all my backstage passes and laminates and crap from work. We came across a Stone's Lam from the 1994 Voodoo Lounge Tour. I was hired to be guitar tech for Ronnie and Keith for a Stones Tour Party featuring my friends The Funky Meters, Marva Wright, and Rockin' Doopsie Jr at a local place called the Praline Connection. The Laminate has Mick's, Keith's, Charlie's autographs (as ell as Ian Neville's) which I actually asked them for (even tho I am usually FAR COOLER than that) I couldn't resist. It was a great party and I ended up on the side of the stage with Keith and Ron sloshing back cocktails and trying to figure out what the fuck Keith was saying to me. Art Neville's son Ian made a gust appearance that night at age 11 or 12 and played guitar with The Funky Meters. Keith was really impressed although I am not sure exactly what he said he kept pointing at Ian and shaking his hand in the fashion that many Latino's do that translates into "AY AY AY" or "man that's hot". Funny memory. BTW Keith was drinking Long Island Ice Teas. Also Ron Wood sat in with Doopsie and *TRIED* to play the washboard (and badly at that) LMAO! Best Paz on 9/16/02 6:01 AM, RoseMJoy@aol.com at RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/15/02 8:01:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > > >> The Stones, in Chicago, at Comiskey Park, home of the White Sox, the >> Stones were great beyond words. An incredible stage and set, and it was >> just the ultimate professionals being so happy and so in to their music >> and what they were doing, when they could have mailed it in - there were >> on, in the moment, who knew Keith could smile???? > > I've seen them 6 times Vince and I'll agree there is nothing to compare it to > as far as the stage presentation goes except maybe the RBBB circus. LOL!! > I've seen a stage that opened up like a star, huge inflated (honky tonk > woman) balloons, and Mick carried over a the crowd in a cherry picker. What > always impresses me is his choice of colors, whether it be his outfits or the > balloons he releases in the air. He's got good taste. I'm sorry I missed the > Bridges to Babylon tour, but I caught it on TV. I may have to miss this one > as well, as ticket prices are way too high. As far as Keith smiling, I've > seen him smile before, It's the drummer Charlie Watts, who has the stone > face, what's his name?? LOL!!! The Stones have never failed to please their > audience, always a spectacular show, but I'd much rather have Bruce tickets. > Will someone please help me? > Rosalita ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #372 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)