From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #371 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 371 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Letterman njc [Randy Remote ] Re: over the line imho NJC [Randy Remote ] Today in History: September 16 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Today's Library Links: September 16 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: Letterman njc ["kakki" ] Re: De-railed? [colin ] Re: over the line imho NJC ["kakki" ] Fey Presto! [Gordon Mackie ] Ponette NJC [] Ponette and Children NJC [] call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) [] NJC Re: call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) [Bob.Muller@fluor] Re: wisdom and courage versus intelligence and appeasement - NJC [Bobsart] Re: Stones in Chicago njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Ponette and Children NJC [colin ] Re: NJC call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) ["Lori in MD" ] Re: over the line imho NJC ["Lori in MD" ] Re: over the line imho NJC ["Lori in MD" ] Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC ["Lori in MD" ] De-railed? ["Kate Bennett" ] Letterman NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: fay and DJRD ["Kate Bennett" ] bye for now - back in a while (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Meaning of Yom Kipour, NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: back to the Edmund Fitzgerald njc [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: letterman and clinton - njc [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 23:59:25 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Letterman njc I would just like to publicly apologize for erroneously suggesting that Henry Kissinger is now, or has ever been anti-war. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:05:15 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: over the line imho NJC colin wrote: > > > Lets see, the US governemnt blamed white Americans for the OK bombing rather > than non white middle eastern people who they knew did it. Not only that, they > executed a white American boy for this crime. > > For once, I am stumped for words......but I am going to check outside right now > to see if I am still on earth. Actually, Colin, they first tried to blame it on middle Eastern terrorists, until the trail led to McVeigh. Curiously, they did not bomb Michigan (or wherever he's from) when this was discovered. I have heard some credible arguments on Amy Goodman's Democracy Now (left wing radio at it's finest) that witnesses including a pizza delivery guy saw McVeigh in a hotel room with some middle-eastern looking men. So maybe he didn't act alone. We should probably just bomb everything to be on the safe side. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 03:09:48 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: September 16 1979: Joni performed at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles, California. The tapes from the 5-night string of performances were edited and released as the "Shadows and Light" album. 1987: Joni attended a Prince concert - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 03:09:48 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: September 16 On September 16 the following item was published: 1997: "Song takes writer to Joni Mitchell's old Detroit apartment " - Detroit News (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/970916dn.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:28:06 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Letterman njc Geez, Randy, you don't have to apologize for anything and if my post made you feel the brunt of anything, I apologize. Many, many people were led to believe that he was against war on Iraq through the widespread misreporting in the media. It ain't your fault at all! Kakki > I would just like to publicly apologize for erroneously suggesting > that Henry Kissinger is now, or has ever been anti-war. > RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:26:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: De-railed? > I just can't believe that she would let anyone influence her to the point of lowering the quality of her music. i don't know the answer to the question. I can imagine Joni being really annoyed if Dolby tried to take over. I also understand that when people are in love, they can act out of character. If she isn't happy with DED, IF, it is quite possible she concvinced herself at the time that she was happy with it because she was in love and later, when she had come off that high, ws able to see more clearly and wished she hadn't done it the way she did it. Personally, I am a DED fan so am happy with the way it is. > > > Mark E. in Seattle - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:51:50 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: over the line imho NJC Um, Colin and Vince, for the record, I've already said that I assume McVeigh was involved in OKC. I'm still way too idealistic to believe that my government would have deliberately set up and executed an innocent man. Is it beyond comprehension to suggest he and McNichol did not act alone? > And I agree that when this nation had very pressing business, a vast right-wing > conspiracy was working overtime to divert our nation's attention away from real > issues as they dealt with their hatred of the President. I see it just the opposite - that Clinton continued to obstruct on the Monica and sexual harassment lawsuits and allegations to divert from all the other stuff he was doing with the Chinese and what not. If his sexual escapades were no big deal as has been asserted here many times, why didn't he just tell the truth like a man and move on instead of letting the crap go on and on for a year and a half? As for "Hate radio" I would characterize those who promulgate it and listen to it as plain old freaks and barely human. I would not characterize it as typical of people on the right politically and I think it is appalling for anyone to do so. > The far left wing press is filled with conspiracy lunatics. I am not impressed > with saying a source is the far left-wing press, And the left was no friend > of Bill's. Well, you should read the articles from the LA Weekly. They were commended by a number of mainstream major news outlets and their investigations have led to a Congressional inquiry and investigation. I said: > > If this is true, yes it is despicable that it was covered up. Vince said: > I am sorry, but you can't first post AS and then change it to IF. You accused > Clinton of something very heinous. Now you want to change it to an "if." You > work in a law office just as I do and you know the importance of those little > words. Yeah, but I don't always write in legalese here. What I meant was "If you (Vince) acknowlege that it is true, then I think you would also think it was despicable that it was covered up." The evidence cited in the Weekly and several other news outlets is compelling. I've read about these connections for years. The Weekly finally put it all together and the FBI whistleblowers coming forward finally gave it more credence. What will be done about it at this point - who knows? It is heinous for people to be left with the impression that domestic "right wing" terrorists acted alone if that is not true and it is irresponsible at best if there are Hamas and Iraqi terrorist groups involved that have not been proscecuted. As for militias and crazies in the hills, I have to acknowledge that I come from a part of the U.S. that doesn't usually see or come across these kinds of people. Never see any rednecks, KKK, militia crazies personally in LA nor see their influence if they exist here. I tend to forget that these groups do exist and perhaps have some influence in other parts of the country. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:46:42 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Fey Presto! More nonsense from me !... The wonderful film "Torch Song Trilogy' which is the semi-autobiographical story of the life of Harvey Firestein (tho wasn't he awful in Independence Day as the man who minced to death at the hands of the aliens) . In it, he plays a drag queen who has performed under a number of 'handles' including Anita Man, Virginia Ham, Bang Bangladesh and ......Fay Ways....now,that suggests to me something more than lightweight... it suggests something dangerous but excitingly immoral. Kinda like the word gay was used in 19th century London as a 'catch all' to describe activity of a sexual nature ( not limited to same sex) which was loose and free (free as in 'carefree' not as in 'not paid for') . er my brain hurts now. I'm not sure quite what I'm getting at here at all but 'sexual flightiness' is in my head somewhere. ..and whatever happenned to Fay Wray...cue for a song.... Gordon PS Fay ( with an 'a') Presto is the 'handle' of a British transexual conjurer/magician ...so clearly he/she understands the ambiguity of the word/name too. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:56:25 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Ponette NJC I just watched this 1996 French film PONETTE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 19:09:59 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Ponette and Children NJC I just watched this 1996 French film PONETTE. What a great film that showed the coping mechanism of a 4-year old girl (played by Victoire Thivisol) from the death of her mother. The film brilliantly showed the range of colors of grief and of the stories the adults tell to kids to simplify life's mysteries. A very very moving tale despite the rather jarring ending (methinks directeur Jacques Doillon did not know how to end his film, much like Niccol with his otherwise absorbing SIMONE). And my, what a very very sublime performance from a 4-year old actress. Thivisol who also appeared as the daughter of Juliette Binoche in CHOCOLAT and LES ENFANTS DU SIECLE, has this rarest of ability among children to break anyone's hearts with a quiver of her upper lip and when her eyes well with tears. I don't know how she was directed by Doillon because its as if the camera is like a voyeur to her subsequent actions. When she tearfully slides up and down the car's hood after being told by her father that her mother died has got to be the most heartbreaking scene that paralleled Fernanda Montenegro's last scene in CENTRO DO BRASIL. There is really something about child actors that are so endearingly honest. I don't know if they are playing characters because the director tells them so, or because of their lack of self-consciousness they give natural performances. For me, Thivisol easily eclipsed the films I watched with children as protagonists: from Leaud in 400 BLOWS to Jamie Bell in BILLY ELLIOTT. Joseph in Manila np: Maire Brennan - Misty Eyed Adventures ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:02:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) call the white house 202-456-1111 (9-5pm) place your vote re: war on iraq, "I oppose the war" (...or "I support the war" ): please, please... call today and forward this to friends and family. love, rose (i'm new to the joni list) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:45:19 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) Welcome Rose! (now we have a BUNCH of roses!) :~) A gentle reminder: when your message has "No Joni Content", please remember to put "NJC" in the subject line. Bob NP: Lucinda Williams, "Passionate Kisses" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:56:19 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: wisdom and courage versus intelligence and appeasement - NJC In a message dated 9/16/02 3:03:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I'll be kind and > say I believe President Bush is not intelligent and not > articulate. > > Where is the courage and wisdom we so desperately need? > > lots of love > Anne > > I know I should stay out of this thread for my own good, but I believe that Anne has finally addressed a key point that has not been focused on in previous posts. First, being articulate is not necessarily the principal indicator of intelligence. Second, being intelligent is not necessarily a sign of being wise (which is far more important than being intelligent, IMO). Third, it will take both great wisdom and courage to make the decisions that need to be made going forward. And there will be many of them (not just the one about whether to dispose of Saddam - at some significant if not great cost - before he does harm that costs us and the world even more). Are there many among the pacifists out among us who can honestly say they would have been on Churchill's side rather than Chamberlin's, given the imperfect knowledge of the general citizenry at that time ? Are there many 'hawks' among us who can honestly say that we were opposed to Vietnam before it became rather obvious to all of us what was happening, broadly speaking ? Or that we as leaders would have had the courage to reverse our bad decision before it got worse ? These are not simple matters. I think we need to continue to make our views known in as sincere and serious and respectful a way as possible, and pray that our government (and GWB as its leader) is both wise and courageous in the course it pursues on our behalf, and that we as a nation surprise the skeptic within us, despite our mixed track record on less profound (and in some cases, equally profound) matters. Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:01:41 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Stones in Chicago njc In a message dated 9/15/02 8:01:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > The Stones, in Chicago, at Comiskey Park, home of the White Sox, the > Stones were great beyond words. An incredible stage and set, and it was > just the ultimate professionals being so happy and so in to their music > and what they were doing, when they could have mailed it in - there were > on, in the moment, who knew Keith could smile???? I've seen them 6 times Vince and I'll agree there is nothing to compare it to as far as the stage presentation goes except maybe the RBBB circus. LOL!! I've seen a stage that opened up like a star, huge inflated (honky tonk woman) balloons, and Mick carried over a the crowd in a cherry picker. What always impresses me is his choice of colors, whether it be his outfits or the balloons he releases in the air. He's got good taste. I'm sorry I missed the Bridges to Babylon tour, but I caught it on TV. I may have to miss this one as well, as ticket prices are way too high. As far as Keith smiling, I've seen him smile before, It's the drummer Charlie Watts, who has the stone face, what's his name?? LOL!!! The Stones have never failed to please their audience, always a spectacular show, but I'd much rather have Bruce tickets. Will someone please help me? Rosalita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:37:34 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Ponette and Children NJC > For me, Thivisol easily eclipsed the films I watched > with children as protagonists: .......... Jamie Bell in > BILLY ELLIOTT. that would not have been difficult, imo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:00:24 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: NJC call the white house, place your vote (Re: war) > rose (i'm new to the joni list) Hi Rose, and welcome! Where do you live? Tell us more! Lori in Maryland ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 07:53:54 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC Hi Kakki, > If you want his to be a private club with only leftists > allowed then someone should officially come right out > and decree it as so Of course I don't want that, and I don't know of anyone else who does. > I ultimately don't think the political discussions > belong here. They serve a "me, too" or provocative > purpose for some, but are very divisive and distracting > to others. Since the JMDL is an unmoderated list, I can't say I think political discussions "don't belong" here, but I understand your point. There have been many hurtful things written over the years, sometimes sadly resulting in members being unsubbed. > Another fools dream of mine - perhaps we can add > another designation of PC for political content so > those who don't want to read those posts can opt out > of them. Perhaps that's possible. Les? > I'd just as soon not read them here because there > are other forums for such discussion. True, but I would rather argue these topics with all of you -- who I know and love and have to come and see maybe once or twice a year -- than with a new bunch of strangers (although I do belong to a couple of other forums for the purpose of political discussion). It's always way more satisfying to argue with your "family," yes? 'Tis for me. > Can we have reasonable and respectful debates here or > is the consensus that any dissenting opinion to a liberal > should be shut up? Yes to the former, and no to the latter. My point was that since this list is liberal-heavy, and Bush and his ilk are anything but, you're going to read more complaints about this administration than supportive comments. That shouldn't be surprising. But dissenting opinions should be tolerated, and even encouraged! (Where the hell is Marcel when you really want to get your blood boiling?) I stand by my opinion that no matter how much anyone -- here or elsewhere -- bashes Bush, it so far has not reached the fevered pitch and hateful frenzy displayed by so many people toward Clinton. There were average, fairly powerless citizens who were CONSUMED with their hatred for him. I thought it was truly bizarre, although I often think it was due to those folks' misgivings that the Reagan era hadn't continued on and on, ad nauseam. > What would Joni want, do you think? I don't know, but I WISH SHE WOULD CHIME IN AND TELL US! : D Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:13:39 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: over the line imho NJC > Never see any rednecks, KKK, militia crazies > personally in LA nor see their influence if they > exist here. Kakki, you need to get out more! ; ) Lori, not far enough from some of the places where those people live ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:38:39 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: over the line imho NJC > We should probably just bomb everything to be on the safe side. What is it that Fred Simon always writes? "You say falafel, I say falafel. You say salaam, I say shalom. Falafel, falafel, salaam, shalom ... Let's blow the whole thing up!" Lori, quite a fan of Fred's ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:46:10 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC >they don't like or trust Clinton, either. There are many on the right who >don't like or trust Bush, either. Can we have reasonable and respectful >debates here or is the consensus that any dissenting opinion to a liberal >should be shut up? Because that is truly how some people here want it. >What would Joni want, do you think? > >Kakki I would like to add only that the main reason I can not tolerate the man (clinton) is the way he treats woman. And how feminists cozy up to the guy is beyond me!! Just think IF....and this is a big IF....Clinton would have been a conservative? My GOD....he would have been hung at the first sunrise....and if you Clinton apologists are really honest...you know this would have been the case. I could not stand that Packwood guy...a republican....I'm glad they got him out. Bravo for NOW!!! BUT GD where in the blank was NOW...when it involved Clinton!!!! IS it because Clinton is a staunch supporter of abortion rights? Partial birth abortion? A hunk? What the FUCK IS IT????!!!!!!!! Bree _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:01:57 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re over the line IMHO NJC Vince said >>Mike, you are being way too charitable. << Thanks/Sorry. It's always been my favourite vice/virtue. Mike in Barcelona NP The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald by the Shuffle Demons Instrumental version, anyone have the lyrics? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:11:27 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC > A hunk? What the FUCK IS IT????!!!!!!!! It's because he's a hunk, Bree. And because he talks about his underwear on cable television. KIDDING! Really though, how many feminists are married to/hooked up with guys just like Clinton? Plenty. And they tolerate certain unattractive aspects of their men because they love them. Or something like that. I think that means they're not one-issue women. (No offense intended.) Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:19:57 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: De-railed? bob s wrote "I wonder what direction she would have chosen on her own." we can only guess but here is some pure conjecture from a songwriters perspective: i think many songwriters have more songs going on than the ones they actually record at the time for a record...these songs may be still in progress or may not be the right fit with others on the record or there may just not be enough room for them...i remember reading that joni said she didn't get paid by the record company for more than 10 songs per record so she kept it at that number...anyway what i am saying is that these songs of hers would eventually find their way to another record so i doubt joni would get 'derailed'... however, whenever i see a bunch of guest artists on someone's record who happen to be top of the charts at the moment, i always see this as an influence of someone who wants the record to be a commercial success (don't know who that is in this case- the artist, the record company, or the producer or all three)...it would make sense that they would get caught up in this idea since so many of her fans feel away from her when mingus was released...after all that is the job of the record company- to be sure the artist sells records... as far as david crosby being the producer of her first record ... i was just reading an interview with joni about this...she says he was not the producer, that she was & has always been producer of her records...but that crosby offered to call himself producer so that the record company would leave her material alone ... (my paraphrase) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:19:58 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Letterman NJC i am the one who started this thread & i aplogize if i've unleashed something unpleasant here... i hesitated before my original posting as i knew it might bring up some strong feelings...but i really wanted to discuss this interview as i was very impressed by it but also surprised (by dave's president blurt)...i had hoped to stick to the actual interview but i should have known how hard it would be to keep it to that since the interviewee is a very controversial ex-president... kakki wrote "I am going to speak very frankly about my experience and the experience of many others on this list. Any dissenting opinion from the liberals who always post about politics has been actively discouraged through offlist pressure to shut up by some of the same people who actively and constantly put their opinions on the list" kakki i always read & appreciate your posts even if i don't agree with some of them...if someone has pressured you offlist from posting your views i think that does not speak well of whoever has done that...of course you have the right to post your views here & your links to articles are most welcome... i think you should ignore anyone who is trying to pressure you to do otherwises..as adults we should be able to discuss these issues without making it personal...most of the time i think we do pretty well at this on list but you are talking about off list so i don't know about this situation.... kakki wrote "Can we have reasonable and respectful debates here or is the consensus that any dissenting opinion to a liberal should be shut up? " absolutely! this is the fine line we all walk in these discussions & when we put our opinions on the table we take the risk of someone else disagreeing with us...i find it works best for me if i try & discuss these things with a bit of emotional detachment, not being invested in being right but in learning ... but that takes some thought & not just reacting & of course it is easier said than done...however i think it helps to keep things from getting personal when they really should not be such... that said, i think that clinton bashing or bush bashing or any bashing of a political figure should never be taken as bashing of someone's personal opinions...that would be silly...i mean if you bash my husband or child, yes i will take it personally, but not if you bash the guy i voted for! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:19:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: fay and DJRD bob s wrote "I Love your stories about your turning your son onto JM via Duritz - thank you so much for sharing them. I have hopes for my own daughter, who professes disdain, but is showing signs of coming around a bit" i love these stories too & have a small one to add...i've been playing hejira in my car lately & gave a ride to my son the other day ... he's a skateboarder so i told him i wanted to play him a song (strange boy)... he listened & said he thought it was really good & i told him it was written before he was born & he said, i thought so because she is talking about those big banana boards (yellow skateboard)that used to be popular... he's not converted by any means but at least he's open! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 10:14:35 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: bye for now - back in a while (njc) Hi everyone. I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to Wednesday's surgery. Let's hope the third time's the charm. (It's my third major surgery in as many years to remove a stubborn tumor that keeps recurring.) I'll be back after I get home from the hospital. Feel free to gossip about me when I'm away :-) [that should result is a resounding silence LOL!] I hope for peace and health, both here and in the world in general. My best to all of you. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:13:44 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Meaning of Yom Kipour, NJC >As Yom Kipour approaches (tonight) several people have wished me a happy >holiday. So I wanted to clarify something which many are not aware of: Yom >Kipour is not festive by any means. >After the Jewish new year, 10 days before Yom Kipour, begins a period of >introspection and soul searching. Thank you for your very interesting post. Much of this I did not know. I suppose it would be the equivalent telling a Christian.... I hope you have a happy Good Friday...it is not a celebratory time. Too long..take care Bree > >Laurent _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:18:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off > for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to > Wednesday's surgery. Let's hope the third time's the > charm. (It's my third major surgery in as many years to > remove a stubborn tumor that keeps recurring.) > > I'll be back after I get home from the hospital. Feel > free to gossip about me when I'm away :-) [that should > result is a resounding silence LOL!] > > I hope for peace and health, both here and in the world > in general. My best to all of you. > > lots of love > Anne Best of luck, Anne. We will be thinking of you. xoxo Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:24:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: De-railed? <> True, and sometimes it even works! Santana's "Supernatural" was awesome, and he has another one about to unleash. In Carlos' case it's a little different because he's never done his vocals. So to bring in guest vocalists seems less contrived than what Joni did on CMIARS. Although some of them worked OK, I couldn't help but feel manipulated: Peter Gabriel & Don Henley: To go for the adult contemporary audience Billy Idol/Steve Stevens & Tom Petty: To go for the younger, more hard rock audience Willie Nelson: To go for the country audience Iron Eyes Cody: To go for the Native AMerican audience (OK, just joking with that one!) Anyway, like I say, some of these tracks work OK but even when they work I feel like they were being exploited. And I know that the stories are there that is was JUST COINCIDENCE that these artists (all of whom were very popular at the time (and that's not even mentioning Benjamin Orr & Wendy/Lisa) happened to be "hanging around" or whatever. I don't believe it for a second, or even assuming it IS true, SOMEBODY working these sessions should have been able to tell that the chemistry just wasn't working in some (not all) cases. To contrast, Cheech & Chong fit in brilliantly on "Twisted", there's nothing on CMIARS that sounds that good. Bob NP: Lucinda Williams, "Broken Butterflies" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:45:45 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: bye for now - back in a while (njc) In a message dated 9/16/2002 1:15:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > I thought I'd say a quick farewell before signing off > for a bit. I'm on the treadmill that leads to > Wednesday's surgery Sweet Anne, you're in all of our thoughts and prayers. Just remember *I'm your date for surgery* (this was something funny Anne told me before my surgery). I'll be thinking of you! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:48:20 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC > > A hunk? What the FUCK IS IT????!!!!!!!! > >It's because he's a hunk, Bree. And because he talks about his >underwear on cable television. > >KIDDING! Hey...I'm big on levity....I've been known to crack-up during funerals!! (just once) > >Really though, how many feminists are married to/hooked up with guys >just like Clinton? Plenty. And they tolerate certain unattractive >aspects of their men because they love them. Or something like that. BUT LORI...I'm all for forgiveness.....but time after time. WIth the caveat.. IF this person is truly repentant. (admits guilt) >I think that means they're not one-issue women. (No offense intended.) Well...I could rattle off many others things I don't like about W>J> Clinton....his treatment of women is # 1. Lori, second would be his all his phony bones. Why do I say this? When his good friend Ron (sec. of Commerce)Brown died, while leaving the funeral....President Clinton was having a good laugh with someone walking next to him. Now....there is nothing inherently wrong with this..........BUT>>>>>> BUT when the president saw there were cameras on him....his facial expression changed....the tears and rubbing of the eyes started. The tears were calculated....this told me so much about him!! NO.....I don't care for his politics....but there are several liberals that I don't particularly care for there politics but respect them. Clinton is a phony....maybe a smart one.....BUT as they say in the south: there is nothing more dangerous than a educated fool. Bree PS. Clinton a hunk?: Not in my eyes...I don't care for his cottage cheese thighs..... amazing. He was a runner...but had these hideous thighs? Now...I can point this out... because I have the same problem. But I don't claim to be a runner. >Lori > >~ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:59:25 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Clinton, "hunk" politicians, and running (NJC) > PS. Clinton a hunk?: Not in my eyes...I don't care > for his cottage cheese thighs..... amazing. He was > a runner...but had these hideous thighs? Now...I can > point this out... because I have the same problem. > But I don't claim to be a runner. Hang on a sec ... one of my running coaches, who RUNS MARATHONS, has "cottage cheese" thighs! I saw her legs on Saturday, and I was surprised but what the hey. She runs, she's my coach, she has my respect. As for "hunk" politicians, my 64-year-old mother had the biggest crush on Shrub -- go figure. As for me, I'll take Ann Richards. ; D Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:00:40 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: U.S. Politics [was Re: Letterman] njc In a message dated 9/15/2002 9:02:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > > > > In contrast to Clinton, I think we're going to eventually > > find out that Bush is one of the dirtiest presidents we've > > ever had, if the country survives long enough. > > Debra, I have to disagree with part of your statement. > > I think we're going to eventually find out that Bush is one of the > DUMBEST presidents we've ever had. > > It's Cheney who is running the show, and we're going to eventually find > out just how dirty HE is, if the country survives long enough. > > Lori > > ~ I think you're both right.he'll be revealed to be one of the dirtiest AND dumbest... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:10:21 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Clinton, "hunk" politicians, and running (NJC) > > PS. Clinton a hunk?: Not in my eyes...I don't care > > for his cottage cheese thighs..... amazing. He was > > a runner...but had these hideous thighs? Now...I can > > point this out... because I have the same problem. > > But I don't claim to be a runner. > >Hang on a sec ... one of my running coaches, who RUNS MARATHONS, >has "cottage cheese" thighs! I saw her legs on Saturday, and I was >surprised but what the hey. She runs, she's my coach, she has my >respect. Maybe...she trained Clinton? Hey...how are your thighs? Not that I want to see them....but I wouldn't say no! If I sponser you... wouldn't you have to give a show? Just like if I bet on a horse I want to see..you know... what I'm betting on. >As for "hunk" politicians, my 64-year-old mother had the biggest crush >on Shrub -- go figure. > >As for me, I'll take Ann Richards. ; D LOL!!!!! I like Libby Dole....now there is real class....a real gentle southern lady!! Also...I have seen her thighs....and they look better than most twenty year olds. (she ran in this mini marathon a few years ago....nice) Bree >Lori > >~ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:19:57 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Letterman and Clinton NJC In a message dated 9/16/2002 11:46:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > > I would like to add only that the main reason I can not tolerate the man > (clinton) is the way he treats woman. And how feminists cozy up to the guy > is beyond me!! Just think IF....and this is a big IF....Clinton would have > been a conservative? My GOD....he would have been hung at the first > sunrise....and if you Clinton apologists are really honest...you know this > would have been the case. I could not stand that Packwood guy...a > republican....I'm glad they got him out. Bravo for NOW!!! BUT GD where > in > the blank was NOW...when it involved Clinton!!!! IS it because Clinton is > a > staunch supporter of abortion rights? Partial birth abortion? A hunk? > What the FUCK IS IT????!!!!!!!! > > Bree > > > So,Clinton isn't perfect.what a surprise.IMO,what the critics of BIll > Clinton miss is context...Clinton was elected president.The most important > thing is how he did in the job of president.And even people who dislike him > and his private behaviors personally often approve of the job he did as > president.In my opinion,I would MUCH rather have a president who was flawed > in his private life but had at least fairly good policies then a president > who was flawless in his private life but had much more destructive > policies.Millions of people are affected by a presidents public > .and to me so much of the critisism is self righeous,sanctimonious and and hypocritical.How do we know what usually goes in people's provate lives? Many president's have had affairs(Jfk,Johnson,eisenhower to name a few).It was even found out that Newt Gingrich,Clinton's one of harshest critics was.Clinton never should have ansered the questions they asked him. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 12:20:07 -0700 From: "Lori in MD" Subject: Re: Clinton, "hunk" politicians, and running (NJC) > Maybe...she trained Clinton? Hmm. Maybe. I hadn't considered that. > If I sponser you... wouldn't you have to give a > show? Just like if I bet on a horse I want to see.. > you know... what I'm betting on. You place yer bets, you takes yer chances! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:02:12 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: letterman and clinton - njc i'm really tired of the bush bashing we have on this list and the fact that there are mostly "liberals" on this list doesn't justify the behavior in my opinion. political values can be as personal as religious or sexual values. if anyone started taking pot shots at certain religions or certain sexual preferences we would have chaos on this list. i believe we posting with double standards which are protected under the name of liberalism. there are conservatives on this list who share the positives they see in music, art, people, etc....but who shut down completely when politics come up because they know how fierce the attacks will be from the "liberals". that's bullshit. the current political scenario is extremely complex and is a dilemna situation where there is no good solution. we attack and innocent people are killed and our soldiers are in harms way. we work it politically and a dirty bomb ends up in israel or nyc or l.a. or d.c. there's no good solution and bill clinton looks so intelligent now because he's out of the hot seat - where no one can be pleased. at the same time, when he was in leadership in the hot seat and his character was at the front of our political lime light, he wasted it over a blow job in the oval office...after years of the same criticisms being made against him for his indiscretions. how intelligent was that for such a big thinker and a such a bright guy? and really, who am i to judge that because i've had my share of mistakes in life...but i try to not make the same ones over and over again in public. and that's my point....he was in the most public job on the planet and he chose to be daring and reckless and that's not intelligent at all in my opinion...but i've not been blasting that every day on this list. my personal politics are not very sophisticated: i'm a democrat who voted for bush because gore looked so light weight (to me) in the debates that i was afraid he couldn't handle the stress if bombs started flying. in fact, i posted that to the list on election day and got my balls busted because everyone said that defense was no longer the primary issue of the day and i was being foolish. that was pre 9/11. then post 9/11 we had debates about how flying the american flag was wrong and hypocritical...and now we have clinton looking stellar intelligent and bush still being the "dumb ass and the shrub"...etc. i suggest we should think before we post harsh things about politics. maybe use religion and sex as a bench mark.....if i said this about someone's religion or their sexuality....would it be perecieved as prejudice or mean spirited? i know i view the comments being currently made about bush as both prejudicial and mean spirited...all though the slammers feel justified because this is a "liberal list". well that's not the case. this is a music list that attracts many people from vast differing demographics some of which are liberal and others who are not. so to assume that we are all the same or that we are a majority and therefore we can write off other's opinions or thoughts or experiences as stupid or wrong or naieve....isn't that the basis for prejudice? is that really liberal? pat np. the cure - maybe someday >I don't know the true numbers (time for another poll?), but I think > it's safe to say that more of us on the JMDL consider ourselves > liberals than not. So yeah, we're going to bash Bush and his boys. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:04:36 -0400 From: vince Subject: back to the Edmund Fitzgerald njc Mike Pritchard wrote: > NP The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald by the Shuffle Demons > > Instrumental version, anyone have the lyrics? > Oh, surely that was a rhetorical question! The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy. With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early The ship was the pride of the American side Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin As the big freighters go it was bigger than most With a crew and the Captain well seasoned. Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms When they left fully loaded for Cleveland And later that night when the ships bell rang Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling. The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound And a wave broke over the railing And every man knew, as the Captain did, too, T'was the witch of November come stealing. The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait When the gales of November came slashing When afternoon came it was freezing rain In the face of a hurricane West Wind When supper time came the old cook came on deck Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya At 7PM a main hatchway caved in He said fellas it's been good to know ya. The Captain wired in he had water coming in And the good ship and crew was in peril And later that night when his lights went out of sight Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Does anyone know where the love of God goes When the words turn the minutes to hours The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay If they'd fifteen more miles behind her. They might have split up or they might have capsized They may have broke deep and took water And all that remains is the faces and the names Of the wives and the sons and the daughters. Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings In the ruins of her ice water mansion Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams, The islands and bays are for sportsmen. And farther below Lake Ontario Takes in what Lake Erie can send her And the iron boats go as the mariners all know With the gales of November remembered. In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald. The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee Superior, they say, never gives up her dead When the gales of November come early. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:20:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: back to the Edmund Fitzgerald njc <> Mondegreen alert! I always heard 'good ship and CREW' (and I think that's what it is). What this song needs is a good bridge and about half the verses deleted. Just reading the lyrics reminded me how tedious it was to listen to. But all the same Vince, thanks for reprinting them...Lieve, I'll still sing it if Michael will play it, although I may fall asleep in the middle of it! :~D Hey Sharon, maybe you can learn an accordion part and we can make a sea chanty out of it! Bob NP: Cassandra Wilson, "I Didn't Know What Time It Was" 7/1/95 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:32:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: letterman and clinton - njc > if anyone started taking pot shots at certain religions or certain sexual > preferences we would have chaos on this list. sexual preference cannot be lumped in here-it isn't a choice. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #371 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)