From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #367 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, September 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 367 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- DJRD-what does everyone think? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] DJRD-what does everyone think? ["J.David Sapp" ] RE: from Christina ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] DJRD, fay, fey and o-fay [" Russell Bowden"] Re:DJRD, What does everyone think? ["Erica Trudelle" ] "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'm bringing it up AGAIN :) DITS ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] "...they say I've changed" jc, actually ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: DJRD- what does everyone think? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] HISSING DEMOS, etc. [Harry83house@aol.com] Re: letterman NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Betsy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'mbringing it up AGAIN :) DITS [dsk ] Re: letterman NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: DJRD-what does everyone think? [Michael Paz ] Re: letterman NJC ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: Letterman njc [colin ] Letterman and Clinton NJC [vince ] Re: DJRD-what does everyone think?njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] My Taste For Fruit ["William" ] Re: HISSING DEMOS, etc. ["Bree Mcdonough" ] anyone for the chatroom? [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: DON JUANS RECKLESS DAUGHTER ["Blair Fraipont" Subject: DJRD-what does everyone think? As Dubya's father might say, "Golden Era. Wonderful stories. Literary genius. Jazz sidemen, Jaco and Wayne: perfect. Never better. Recommend it." Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:27:56 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: September 14 1974: Joni performed at Wembley Stadium in Wembley, England in front of 72,000 people. Others performing at this event were CSN&Y, Jesse Colin Young and The Band. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740921s.cfm http://www.jmdl.com/today/740914.cfm 1979: Joni performed at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles, California. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790920lact.cfm - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:27:56 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: September 14 On September 14 the following items were published: 1979: "Celebrating a jazz master and a bold new style" - Daily Collegian (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790904dc.cfm 1979: "Joni Mitchell - An Artist in Transition" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790914latx.cfm 1979: "Joni Mitchell equal to legendary billing" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790914lat.cfm 1979: "Mitchell Blends Styles at the Greek Theatre" - Valley News (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790914vn.cfm 2000: "Joni Mitchell, the homecoming queen" - Toronto Globe and Mail (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000914tgam.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 04:10:51 -0400 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: DON JUANS RECKLESS DAUGHTER As far as Joni albums go this one is right near the top of my list...Granted some of the songs are a lil hard to swallow at first but once you really give it a chance BELIEVE ME you ll be surprised how much it grows on you....As a matter of fact I used Off Night Backstreet in a poetry reading not too long ago..I find I enjoy listening to DJRD on vinyl more than cd but that just my preference i enjoy most everything on vinyl more..VIVA LA DJRD VIVA LA JMDL VIVA LA JONI**********kev****** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 07:05:54 EDT From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: DJRD I have always loved DJRD - the expert musicianship, the pushing of the musical envelope towards the jazzier...the percussive tunes...and the writing!!!!! Wunnnderful!!!!! Now back to Lurk-dom, Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 09:26:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: dry cleaner from des moines content In a message dated 9/14/2002 12:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com writes: > i was lucky enough to be sitting in another room while les ross, > chris marshall and christina friis-nielsen first rehearsed 'dry-cleaner' > it > was completely accomplished, and completely true to 'Joni's jazz material', > and one of my most treasurable moments of the weekend. > That was pretty phenomenal stuff, especially when they nailed it at the start! Not an easy song to "pick up" by any stretch of the imagination. While I was happy with the performance version of "Talk To Me", my first couple takes of it were pretty bad. Lucky for me Marian is as patient as she is accomplished! :~) Bob NP: XTC, "Gold" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:40:26 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Ten Bob Note...other September songs with (njc) >>Don't you just love pointless email?<< I don't beleive any e-mail is pointless, except maybe my own, sometimes. mike NP Keith Jarrett Trio Inside Out - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 09:44:47 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #267 In a message dated 9/14/2002 3:01:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I've seen the word fey used cynically to describe women who are > artsy-fartsy, a bit pretentious and calculatingly naive. In "Furry Sings > the Blues, " I think Joni is actually poking fun at her own image. > This was my impression too. But also to say I'm worlds away from these two blocks that you call home. And if he did say "I don't like you" - Joni may be telling him that he doesn't like what he thinks he "sees". ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:36:25 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: WAS Yep, I'm bringing it up AGAIN :) NOW 'a worn arrangment' ? sjc >> "W.C. Handy I'm rich and I'm fay" Anyone else have a suggestion?<< Well, yes, actually I have. I believe this is one of the longest-running urban legends, in the same way that Bogart never said 'Play it again Sam' in Casablanca and Clint Eastwood never said 'Make my day' in Dirty Harry. I have it on good authority that Joni was attending a party in Hollywood in 1969 to celebrate the premiere of Elia Kazan's "The Arrangement". Allegedly, Joni overheard the following fragment of a conversation while heading for the tequila tray. "that song(inaudible)  W.C. Handy". "I'm Rich." "And I'm Faye." This was the first meeting of two co-stars of the film, Richard Boone and Faye Dunaway who had minor parts and never appeared together in the film. Joni then asked for a eyeliner pencil and made her way to the powder room to jot down the lines that would fill out the lyrics for a song she was working on at the time. The rest is history, or if you prefer, my story.mike in barcelona - still with KJ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:39:16 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Letterman njc I agree with, but will not repeat here, Randy's list of Clinton's actions while President (bombing, lying, wiretapping etc). I will, however, comment on one shorter point. >>His (Clinton's) intellect and integrity are head and shoulders above the Shrub's. So he had an affair and lied about it...I would rather have that in the white house than someone who lies to get us into a war<< Clinton didn't just 'have an affair and lie about it'. He took advantage of his position as the most powerful man on the planet to enter into an adulterous in-house sexual relationship with a young, immature, impressionable and infatuated intern and when the heat was too much to bear he twisted the English language in a knot to try to classify a blow job as a non-sexual act. Try telling this to the police and / or social services. Then when this strategy failed to work he 'took the fifth'; the first president to do so, if I'm not mistaken. Please don't talk about integrity and Clinton in the same sentence. Whether Monica was equally guilty, I don't know, but I think people should demand, expect and get more 'integrity' from a President than he showed in this case. mike in barcelona Keith Jarrett 'riot' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:24:13 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: DJRD-what does everyone think? i love DJRD - i have always seen it as the culmination of an experiment that began with HOSL and figured joni was ready to move in a new direction post DJRD anyway. i've even grown to like Tenth World, especially when compared to much of the music released at that time or since. i think it is a very bold, sexy track. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:12:45 -0500 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: from Christina Christina wrote: "My story of discovering Joni wrapped up in short is this: About 1= years ago I was first introduced to Joni by a friend who suggested that I bought a cd with her and tried to learn some of her songs. I didn't really get into the music, though, until half a year later, where I, through a newspaper add, met Henning Olsen, a superbe guitarist who already played a broad repertoire of her songs. In the following two months I learned about 30 songs - I was totally caught up by it!" And Patrick responded: "there's something really notable about christine singing so well at jonifest and later writing: "Until recently, I hadn't heard any of Joni's jazz material which I >can't wait to learn to sing." on saturday am jonifest weekend, i was lucky enough to be sitting in another room while les ross, chris marshall and christina friis-nielsen first rehearsed 'dry-cleaner' it was completely accomplished, and completely true to 'Joni's jazz material', and one of my most treasurable moments of the weekend." Me now: I completely agree with Patrick, and then some. Anyone who heard Christina and Henning at Jonifest 2002 or has bought a copy of their recent demo CD knows the great care Christina takes with Joni's often unique phrasings and the memorable original touches occasionally she adds, not to mention the superb quality of her voice. Add the fact that English is not Christina's first language, and the result is nothing short of amazing. I especially look forward to seeing what Christina, Henning, and the band do in the future with some of Joni's later, lesser-known stuff, as their rendition of "Passion Play" was one of my favorites on the entire CD. "A good listener"?? *I'll* say!!! "Big Yellow Taxi" rules!!!!! - --A satisfied customer in Madison, WI (Mary P.), who's thanking that very good friend of yours--and ours. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:53:56 -0700 From: " Russell Bowden" Subject: DJRD, fay, fey and o-fay Gang, Seeing as how DJRD is tied for #1 in my book, I can't recommend it enough....10th World and all! This is the one Joni opus that I absolutely loved from beginning to end on the first hearing...I think that was the day it was released in 1977. There is nothing wrong with this one...right, SCJonilovegod....I mean 'guy'! Fey can mean a momentary kind of madness..as to be in a fey mood. (Reaction to some calamity or catastrophe..) Fay and/or o-fay can mean gay-like...(not necessarily a slur) or white AND gay..I THINK it has been used by Afro-Americans to describe a fem-acting guy. (See 'Confederacy of Dunces' character Jones refering to a gay guy.) Sorry, don't have the page in front of me. Made a hejira to Maine from CA (opposite of it's creation, no?) to see my fam for the first time in 3 years...the 2 Joni's I brought with me are DJRD and TI....'nuff said. Love, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:01:25 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: Re:DJRD, What does everyone think? Stop what you are doing RIGHT NOW and go buy that album, holy moses it's a keeper!!!!!!! I love it I love it I love it. It's the sister of Hejira. I can't say enough about it. The theme of dreams is brillant to me. Everyone here pushed me over the edge to purchase it and I am so thankful. It's my type of Joni groove. Good Luck, let us know what you think. Erica >>>>I have every Joni CD from Blue through Hejira.I don't want to listen to Joni's later music(80's through now)because though I love her high,pretty voice,I don't like her deeper voice.What does everyone think of DJRD?Does it compare well to her earlier music? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:16:47 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Letterman njc Dear Mike: I could not agree with you more. I did not mean to give the impression that I approved of everything Clinton did. The only president I have respect for is Carter. However, I can compare presidents and despite my radical, liberal leanings...prefer not to view a president with an all or nothing attitude. I remember when Goldwater and Johnson were running against one another. Goldwater said he would bomb and Johnson said he would not. Johnson won and he did just what Goldwater said he would do. At least with Goldwater we knew where we stood. Clinton is a self serving person. Still far more intelligent than Bush...and it was that intelligence which reminded me of why I voted for him. Intellect however, does not mean placing the desires of the nation ahead of his own. Both Clinton and Reagon were master's at schmoozing. I could never be a politician because I could not compromise myself the way one has to in order to make their way in politics. No one here can name one politician...who never told one group one thing and told another group another thing...all with just manipulating words. I completely accept your position on Clinton. My position with Clinton's affair was that it does not have the same life and death ramifications as entering a war in Iraq. That is all. I am an idealist in many respects. I say...why can we not all get along? Being a Jew and losing relatives in the Holocaust I am fully aware that there are bad people in the world. However, I am a non-violent person. I believe in using our military to clean up cities, paint old people's houses, and on and on...and yet...I also know we need to protect ourselves. I am constantly on the horns of a dilemma...because things are not black or white. No president is all good or all bad. And I thank you for your well reasoned and passionate position on the powerful taking advantage of the less powerful. Issues on the environment, poverty, schools...health care...human rights...all carry the position of each president stamped on them. Love and Peace...Sharon Mike Pritchard wrote: > > I agree with, but will not repeat here, Randy's list of Clinton's actions > while President (bombing, lying, wiretapping etc). I will, however, > comment on one shorter point. > > >>His (Clinton's) intellect and integrity are head and shoulders above > the Shrub's. So he had an affair and lied about it...I would rather have > that in the white house than someone who lies to get us into a war<< > > Clinton didn't just 'have an affair and lie about it'. He took advantage > of his position as the most powerful man on the planet to enter into an > adulterous in-house sexual relationship with a young, immature, > impressionable and infatuated intern and when the heat was too much to > bear he twisted the English language in a knot to try to classify a blow > job as a non-sexual act. Try telling this to the police and / or social > services. Then when this strategy failed to work he 'took the fifth'; the > first president to do so, if I'm not mistaken. Please don't talk about > integrity and Clinton in the same sentence. Whether Monica was equally > guilty, I don't know, but I think people should demand, expect and get > more 'integrity' from a President than he showed in this case. > mike in barcelona Keith Jarrett 'riot' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:16:45 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'm bringing it up AGAIN :) DITS I'll play. First the word is 'heyday', meaning glory days. (Hi Rosalita!) Joni's not talking about a blues man on the back of a tractor driven hay wagon. Joni, the visitor is getting strong impressions of his glory days. Next. Let's look at the line in context, eh? In line after line, Joni describes Furry's world. A world in decay. A world of faded glories, like Rose's picture of the skating rink in Asbury Park. See: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/FurrySingsTheBlues.cfm Joni's observing a man who's life is flickering. One leg and all of his teeth are gone. In textbook brilliance, Joni sees the storefronts through the same metaphor of artificial body parts outlasting their host. Check this out: "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps in the gray decay." Isn't that like an old guy, his skin wrinkled and flawed? In parts of the song, she writes as if the darktown society, coming out of her imagination is real. (If I recall correctly from the PBS special on Jazz, "darktown" was a racist slang term that whites used to refer to the "Negro" neighborhoods. It was similar to the racist word "darkies" referring to USA citizens of African descent.) Anyway, as she did in "The Boho Dance", Joni has entered the imaginary world and writes as if she's inside her own 'painting', she's creating the "darktown" world of 'Furry' and imagining herself as a fairy, an aberration from a wealthy and healthy, future white society. I really, really love best the live version of "Furry Sings The Blues" from the "Shadows and Light" release, about 43 minutes into the title on my USA VHS copy. Metheny plays an effect that reminds me of rain drizzling slowly down a dirty window and it works really well with the visuals in the video and it kicks the metaphor right into the sound of the song itself. By the S&L tour, she had already co-written the Mingus project which received a wildly appreciative review by Leonard Feather in 'downbeat magazine'. Around that time she dressed as "Art", a black hipster for Halloween. Its also significant that during this period (S&L concert), Joni was in love with drummer Don Alias who's of African lineage. On the S&L video, when she changes some lines in "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat". As she sings this, she points at Alias >>>>> Don and me, we look up. There's a sign up on the awning. It says, "Pork Pie Hat Bar". And there were two brand-new, little musicians dancin' there to-night. >>>>>>>> In short, Joni "got" the black experience. With that respect, Joni apologizes for herself in Furry's world. Joni wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> W.C. Handy, I'm rich and I'm fey; and I'm not familiar with what you played, but I get such strong impressions of your hey day, when I'm lookin' up and down old Beale Street. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It reads perfectly as text too! In her usual duality, Joni's calling the real world (her own) false and the faded world real (old Beale Street). She apologize for being an aberration, a ghost, who doesn't belong on Beale Street. Sensing another major essay in the offing, Lama Erica got the ball rolling with, >>>>>>>>> I looked up "Fay" and it said, "fairy or elf. See fairy" and "Fey" said "Otherworldly, magical, or fairy-like". So they both seem to mean the same thing.....I'm not sure how that fits into the song. Maybe thru being "otherworldly" Joni can get such a "strong impression" of W.C.'s heyday? I'm just shooting the dark here, but other than that I have no idea... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:22:32 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: thanks for your post on DJRD I really got a lot out of it. These scholary talks about the lyrics in particular and songs as lit are my 2nd favorite part of jmdl. The fests are now my favorite. :) Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:35:08 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: DON JUANS RECKLESS DAUGHTER > As far as Joni albums go this one is right near the top of my list...Granted some of the songs are a lil hard to swallow at first but once you really give it a chance BELIEVE ME you ll be surprised how much it grows on you....As a matter of fact I used Off Night Backstreet in a poetry reading not too long ago..I find I enjoy listening to DJRD on vinyl more than cd but that just my preference i enjoy most everything on vinyl more..VIVA LA DJRD VIVA LA JMDL VIVA LA JONI**********kev****** > In the case of DJRD, the vinyl gives a better idea of how it was originally structured. Each side of the original vinyl is a complete entity on its own. Somebody talked about the choice of tracks for the beginning and end of an album. Each side of DJRD was sequenced as if each was a mini-album in its own right with an appropriate opener and final track. Cotton Avenue is the start of a musical idea or thought that culminates in Jericho. Paprika Plains took up one whole side. It stands on its own as a complete work with a series of ideas that moves from one movement to the next. We go from Miami, a jumping off place to the Caribbean and South America, in 'Otis and Marlena' into the exotic rhythms of 'The Tenth World' which segues us into 'Dreamland'. And the final section is kind of the flip side thematically of the first. Suspicion and mistrust have soured the hope and anticipation of the blooming relationship. In the end disillusion has set in once more and Joni concludes that it's only in our dreams that 'we fly', that relationships are easy. When DJRD came out, I liked it but it wasn't until revisiting it after many years and after joining this list that I really came to fully appreciate it. Now it seems like one of the most original and innovative things to come out of that period of time and I put it up there as one of Joni's best. Her singing is wonderful on this record and the music is rich and varied. 'Overture/Cotton Avenue' is an amazing piece and 'Paprika Plains' is maybe her most ambitious work. At the time I thought of it as Joni's first piano concerto, thinking that at some point she might do more of this type of composing. And I still think that the idea that Mingus or Klein or anybody else de-railed Joni's career is pure bunk. Mingus gave her the opportunity of a life time. Klein maybe wanted to have more control or influence than he did but I can't believe that Joni gave control of her music to anybody else at that point of her career. That's my *opinion* anyway. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:34:54 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: "...they say I've changed" jc, actually Oh, my goodness, Christina. I love her jazz stuff best. Check out "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines". The story is about a lucky working class guy at a casino, while Joni pretends to be annoyed. My favorite funny line of all of Joni's songs is here but to appreciate the joke, you have to know that some places, like airports, had pay toilets here in America. (One nickname for a toilet is a 'john'.) She' saying that he could receive a winning jackpot from the coin box on the door of a toilet. Joni said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The cleaner from Des Moines could put a coin in the door of the john and make 20 to 1. It's just luck. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it totally works as jazz, with staccato phrasing that hammers the humor. I can't wait to hear you interpet Joni's jazz. Lama Christina said, >>>>> Until recently, I hadn't heard any of Joni's jazz material which I can't wait to learn to sing. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:42:51 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'm bringing it up AGAIN :) DITS > It reads perfectly as text too! In her usual duality, > Joni's calling the real world (her own) false and the faded world real (old > Beale Street). She apologize for being an aberration, a ghost, who doesn't > belong on Beale Street. > > > > Sensing another major essay in the offing, > Lama Go for it, Lama! Some great thoughts here. I especially like this last bit. Lots of food for thought here. Well done. Mark (*not* Travis) E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:14:44 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: DJRD- what does everyone think? DJRD is my second favorite Joni album, next to FTR. This album is incredibly brilliant and original. It has the dynamics, twang, and playfulness that HEJIRA is lacking. If you really don't like this album, you must try listening with a set of headphones. Listen to the strings on her guitar! The low strings are so loose they sound like they are going to fall off the guitar, yet they still remain in tune. One of my favorite Joni cover's is Roger McGuinn doing "Dreamland". This is another headphone must song. Listening to DRJD is a form of escapism for me. I totally get lost in it and forget where I am. By the way, when did that dating service appear on the website? Has it been there awhile or did I just miss it before. It's pretty funny!! Mia (np: My Iron Lung -RADIOHEAD) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 11:35:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Betsy Has anybody else read this in the Gallery section of the web site? I was fortunate enough to meet her a few times as one of my friends is Betsy ("Song For Sharon"). It was a magic time to be in L.A. amongst the likes of Linda Rondstat, Jackson Brown and The Eagles. It's in Tony King's profile. Tony, please de-lurk if you're out there and tell us who Betsy is! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:39:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD- what does everyone think? **One of my favorite Joni cover's is Roger McGuinn doing "Dreamland". ** Wait til you hear Marlon Cherry's version, just out this year. He really gets the rhythms and feeling of it! Bob, LOVIN' all this talk about DJRD! NP: Color Red, "The Other One" PS: The "Dating Service" was a bit of post-fest humor on Les' part. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:47:48 EDT From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: HISSING DEMOS, etc. I sent my blank CD's to the beloved Bob Muller and he sent me back the most amazing Joni music! (Bob, you're the best, buddy...thank you.) I'm sure most of you listers already have the HISSING DEMOS and all the other "unvailable-in-stores" recordings...but if you don't, you should. My appreciation and awe of Joni Mitchell has only deepened by listening to these discs. To get a peek at her songwriting process for "My Old Man" and "All I Want" from the 1970 Live at the BBC Concert is unbelievable. The intimacy of Joni and James Taylor together in concert in London, 1970 is sweetly touching, and my jaw dropped at the gorgeous purity of her voice in the duets with the legendary Johnny Cash and Pete Seeger (God bless whoever recorded those Joni/Johnny and Joni/Pete duets---they should be in the Smithsonian!) Her unique artistry with her guitar and dulcimer is breathtaking throughout AND to be able to relive the 1998 Yasgur's Farm Concert is a special thrill for me. (That's a story for another day.) Right now, though, if I had to pick a favorite, it would be the HISSING DEMOS. In my opinion, "Dreamland" has never sounded better, but the whole thing is incredible, with the bonus of those quaint Radio Spots with the cheesy, faux-sexy, lounge-lizard voice-over guy...plus the fascinating "Hunter the Good Samaritan". Anyone know the story on that song? In fact, what's the story on the HISSING DEMOS? One thing that really struck me in listening to Joni's live performances is her complete lack of artifice (then and now)...she hasn't seemed to have adopted a stage "persona" as a shield between herself and the audience. What you see is what you get. On the other hand, I think Joni is an exceptionally economical "actress" in her vocal performances. You do get a sense of Joni concentrating when she sings, (perhaps not as intensely as,say, Joan Baez), but then Joni will do something like flashing her eyes in "Coyote" during the "Last Waltz" or that haunting catch in her throat on the word "harm" in the SHADOWS AND LIGHT version of "Amelia". It makes me wonder why she hasn't dabbled into acting like Baez or Judy Collins...or Cher (!) Can you picture Joni breaking into films in the 70's? I can see her instead of Goldie Hawn in SHAMPOO...A STAR IS BORN with Joni and James Taylor...Joni as one of the three women in THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK?... SOPHIES CHOICE?!!! Anyway, I'm rambling...Thanks again, Bob...once again, you've made me very happy. And, in your honor, COVERS FRISBEE has been banned in my county. Harry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:44:32 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: letterman NJC Sharon said >>I did not mean to give the impression that I approved of everything Clinton did<< Hi Sharon, I realize that and I knew right away that you were not in favour of all Clinton's acts. Given a choice between Bush and Clinton I would vote for Clinton every time. Intellectually speaking there is no comparison, but let's not (anyone) confuse intellect with honesty or integrity. I think if we look around at the world leaders we see a pathetic ragbag of populists and worse. Where are the Willy Brandts, the Ghandis, the Mandelas, the Nkrumahs, the Olaf Palms? Why is our world ruled by the Haiders, the Husseins, the Sharons, the Chavezes and worse? How many people can raise their hand and say "I truly believe that my President/Prime Minister/Political Leader is an honest, courageous good person"? I cannot; neither in my home country or my adopted country. To see Bush in the White House makes me weep with frustration about such a 'nothing' being the hope and aspiration of a great nation. Acting like a gangster in a B-movie and ignoring all voices of reason and argument. He will lead your country into a war which will last not for weeks, but for generations. He is either a liar or a fool, or both. If he believes he can prevent terrorists from attacking the USA he is a fool: if he promises this to the American people he is a liar and a fool. Nobody (government or individual) will ever be able to stop a person with a weapon and the will to kill. It cannot be done. I wish it could, but let's be realistic. There is one way, and only one way, that Bush can reduce terrorism in the world. By refraining from committing terrorist acts himself. Any other promise simply will not work. mike in barcelona np imperial bedroom. Elvis Costello - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:53:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Betsy **It's in Tony King's profile. Tony, please de-lurk if you're out there and tell us who Betsy is!** Tony has posted here relative to this, Mark. Betsy is Peter Asher's wife. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:56:13 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'mbringing it up AGAIN :) DITS "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > W.C. Handy, I'm rich and I'm fey; and I'm not familiar with what you played, > but I get such strong impressions of your hey day, when I'm lookin' up and > down old Beale Street. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All very interesting, Jim. Bring on the essay! One tiny point, which I mention and remember so strongly because what I'd thought for years was turned around by it in an earlier discussion, is that the printed lyrics don't say "fey" (which simplistically is what I'd always thought Joni meant) but "fay", a new word for me (which makes what she's saying multi-layered, because I still hear the word and meaning of "fey" but Joni using the word "fay" adds another possible reason as to why, unfortunately, she wasn't familiar with Handy's music). Just another example of Joni's brilliant complexity. I find that intriguing. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:59:40 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HISSING DEMOS, etc. **And, in your honor, COVERS FRISBEE has been banned in my county. ** LOL & God bless ya, Harry! Absolutely was my pleasure to share the music as others have so graciously shared it with me. Your observations were all spot on, I thought. You can just feel the emotions that she & JT have on that recording! As for "Hunter", all I know is that it was written and recorded for Blue, then shelved and was obviously never released. Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Butterfly In Reverse" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:02:57 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: RE: "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter"- masterwork, was Yep, I'mbringing it up AGAIN :) DITS Fey? Fay? Remember 'buoy winds'? > From: dsk [mailto:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] > All very interesting, Jim. Bring on the essay! > > One tiny point, which I mention and remember so strongly because what > I'd thought for years was turned around by it in an earlier discussion, > is that the printed lyrics don't say "fey" (which simplistically is what > I'd always thought Joni meant) but "fay", a new word for me (which makes > what she's saying multi-layered, because I still hear the word and > meaning of "fey" but Joni using the word "fay" adds another possible > reason as to why, unfortunately, she wasn't familiar with Handy's music). > > Just another example of Joni's brilliant complexity. I find that > intriguing. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:28:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Betsy > Tony has posted here relative to this, Mark. Betsy is Peter Asher's wife. > > Bob > Oh. Well. That's very different. Never mind. Mr. Scott, you are dismissed. Back to lurkdom. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:58:40 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: letterman NJC Mike Pritchard wrote: > Nobody > (government or individual) will ever be able to stop a person with a > weapon and the will to kill. It cannot be done. I wish it could, but > let's be realistic. > > There is one way, and only one way, that Bush can reduce terrorism in the > world. By refraining from committing terrorist acts himself. Any other > promise simply will not work. > Well, we'd rather drop bombs than look at our foreign policy, and question why large groups of people are so pissed off that they resort to violence. Plus, it's really good for the armament makers. And a great diversion from other issues. Bush at the UN: We would like some help in this thing, but if we don't get it, we're gonna do it anyway. Even if I'm the only guy in the country that wants it, we're gonna do it anyway. It blows my mind that even Henry Kissinger, who is himself a big- time war criminal, orchestrated Vietnam and Chile and has cheered on every senseless war we've ever had, even he says attacking Iraq is a bad idea. That's how hawkish this administation is!! RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:07:16 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: DJRD-what does everyone think? It's under your sheep skin collection Your welcome! Paz on 9/13/02 12:35 PM, Bob.Muller@fluor.com at Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > < artist. And it caused me to stop listening>> > > Wow! > > Just in case somebody's keeping score, I better state that I think it's a > brilliant collection, and if there was any doubt that Joni is a "composer" > and not merely a "songwriter" it vanishes with this effort. Way ahead of > it's time in 1977 and probably still is. Enjoy your martini Sybil, and you > still ROCK in my book! > > I'm at the part of the "S&L" biography that discusses this period, and I > learned that the "dream sequence" in Paprika Plains was in reference to an > actual dream that Joni had when she was on Dylan's Rolling Thunder Revue. > (In case some of you don't know, there are 'bonus lyrics' that are not sung > on the track but are listed on the jacket.) > > I'd listen to it right now, but I seem to have mis-placed my copy. Has > anyone seen it? ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:13:24 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: DJRD-what does everyone think? For the record Rose I just cancelled your Bruuuuuuce tickets! How dare you insult WTRF. Now if you would have attacked DED OR CMIARS I sould forgive you, but you have CROSSED the line! Paz BTW Sybil I love DJRD, except for 10th world. Esp. Offnight, Jericho, Talk To me and Cotton Ave. on 9/13/02 4:04 PM, RoseMJoy@aol.com at RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/13/02 3:15:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > sybilskelton@hotmail.com writes: > > >> - it's an awful album from a great >> artist. And it caused me to stop listening. >> >> > > Wow, I love the Don! Push those recline buttons down and dream on. > It rocks, however I'm not crazy for Wild Things for the record. To each his > own I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:15:35 -0400 From: dsk Subject: U.S. Politics [was Re: Letterman] njc Randy Remote wrote: > > Clinton may be a million times smarter than Shrub, but he did plenty > of damage while in the White House. Posing as a liberal, he did things > the Republicans only dreamed about. You seem to be forgetting that it was the Republicans in Congress, many of them extremely right-wing, that greatly influenced what happened during Clinton's term. Anyone remember the conservatives' "Contract with America"? Clinton didn't go in with a Republican agenda. The first thing he did was allow homosexuals to be in the military, openly. The conservatives didn't go for that. The second thing Clinton did was try to reform health care, which is a complete mess in this country benefiting only insurance companies as far as I can see, and Congress shot that down very quickly, didn't even want to talk about it. Clinton was clumsy in presenting both of those things, but also he and his agenda were dogged every second he was in office by the conservative Republicans in Congress. And, no, I don't agree with everything Clinton did and was disgusted with his "I didn't have sex with that woman" lie. That's not the whole story with him, though. Unfortunately, it's a convenient one for the conservatives to rally around (and how disgusting was it to find out how many of those self-righteous Republican finger pointers were not choir boys themselves?) > At least with Bush, you know what you're getting. I disagree with you there. It was widely publicized that Clinton was a womanizer even before the primaries. Gennifer Flowers was all over the place. I voted for Clinton twice anyway and would again because of his intelligence and his Democratic viewpoint that government exists to be of service to people rather than thinking it just gets in people's way, which is the Republicans' view. And, yeah, in reality each party's ideals get watered down since it's a government of compromise and consensus and trade-offs. I'd never change my deep-seated allegiance to the ideals of the Democratic Party, though, just because of one Democrat's personal failings. In contrast to Clinton, I think we're going to eventually find out that Bush is one of the dirtiest presidents we've ever had, if the country survives long enough. Debra Shea P.S. Yeah, I know, I'd never make it as a "ya gotta compromise to get anything done" politician. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:31:39 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: letterman NJC I appreciate your response Randy. Bravo for you. :) You would think people would understand that war or aggression or whatever you want to call it...NEVER solves the problem. Did Hitler solve any problems? Do the Muslims or Irish solve any problems? Are Israel and Palestine solving anything? Aggression under a myriad of ideologies..religion, ethnic cleansing...does nothing more than call for counter attack. It is all so sad. How do we stop? By not playing 'catch' back and forth. The one who puts down his or her mitt is really the winner. I think of a raffle or game motto we all see from time to time..."You have to be present to win" Well...when I saw this...I thought...this is really a message about life. I have to be present to win. Love and Peace...Sharon...grateful for antiwar souls. Randy Remote wrote: > > Mike Pritchard wrote: > > > Nobody > > (government or individual) will ever be able to stop a person with a > > weapon and the will to kill. It cannot be done. I wish it could, but > > let's be realistic. > > > > There is one way, and only one way, that Bush can reduce terrorism in the > > world. By refraining from committing terrorist acts himself. Any other > > promise simply will not work. > > > > Well, we'd rather drop bombs than look at our foreign policy, and > question why large groups of people are so pissed off that they resort > to violence. Plus, it's really good for the armament makers. And a > great diversion from other issues. > Bush at the UN: We would like some help in this thing, but if we > don't get it, we're gonna do it anyway. Even if I'm the only guy > in the country that wants it, we're gonna do it anyway. > It blows my mind that even Henry Kissinger, who is himself a big- > time war criminal, orchestrated Vietnam and Chile and has cheered > on every senseless war we've ever had, even he says attacking > Iraq is a bad idea. That's how hawkish this administation is!! > RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 22:46:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Letterman njc > Mike Pritchard wrote: > > > > > Clinton didn't just 'have an affair and lie about it'. He took advantage > > of his position as the most powerful man on the planet to enter into an > > adulterous in-house sexual relationship with a young, immature, > > impressionable and infatuated intern and when the heat was too much to > > bear he twisted the English language in a knot to try to classify a blow > > job as a non-sexual act. you are right of course. Failing badly in one area of life, does not make a person all bad tho. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:04:41 -0400 From: vince Subject: Letterman and Clinton NJC dsk wrote: > I think we're going to eventually find out that Bush is one of the > dirtiest presidents we've ever had, if the country > survives long enough. > > Debra Shea > Exactly right, I saw Clinton on Letterman and almost cried, given what we got now, and all the good of Clinton despite his flaws, and what we would have had in Gore - you know Al also understands the issues, and would have talked fluently and coherently about the world situation today. Instead, we have about the lamest president we have had in along, long time. I am surprised that no one had picked up on Letterman's comment to Clinton, toward the end of the show, to the effect of, and I am paraphrasing, "and I think you are still our president." Anyone remember exactly remember what Dave said? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:52:00 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD-what does everyone think?njc In a message dated 9/14/02 4:12:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpazz@directvinternet.com writes: > For the record Rose I just cancelled your Bruuuuuuce tickets! How dare you > insult WTRF. Now if you would have attacked DED OR CMIARS I sould forgive > you, but you have CROSSED the line! > > Waaahhhhhhhhhh.....That wasn't me, that was my evil twin sister, you know the one that combs those NJ shore bars and spends her Saturdays in the shopping malls. Forgive her, she knows not what she does. ~the real Rosalie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 00:45:28 +0100 From: "William" Subject: My Taste For Fruit Playing 'Mingus' the noo - och aye. Fab! 'The Dry Cleaner.' Joni's very own 'Twisted' - well, that's the way I see it. Boogie Man, Wolf, Pork Pie. All fab! The Mingus' 'Rap's musta felt right at the time but I've always found them annoying and just wanna FF and get on with the music. I can understand why they might have been considered initially but I can't understand why they weren't omitted from the final cut. 'Of the darkness in men's minds ...' When you consider that DJRD yielded only ten songs, albeit one a 16-minute odd epic, then 'Mingus' wasn't really that much less brilliant as a single album with a mere six. Excuse me? Sounds like in the late 70s we die-hards woulda taken anything Joni threw at us. Still, give me those six than nothing at all. Good to hear that Les is more Moines and someone sang Dry Cleaner @ the Fest. Post 'Bows and flows' Joni and more of it please. 'Ringing bells nothing to it!' Bated breath. WtS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 19:55:51 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: HISSING DEMOS, etc. >One thing that really struck me in listening to Joni's live performances is >her complete lack of >artifice (then and now)...she hasn't seemed to have adopted a stage >"persona" >as a shield between herself and the audience. What you see is what you >get. This is one of the things that I love about her: She is so real....what you see is what you get. This is what struck me when she did that Canadian show MuchMusic. She never disappoints me....not a phony bone in her body. I was thinking to....let's say Joni never made it in show biz...I know this is hard to imagine.....just your neighbor....Roberta J. Anderson. Wouldn't she make a hell of neighbor and friend?!! True Blue!!! I saw in the paper today Clinton is wanting interns....no..no for his office. Any volunteers? (if you get the job be sure and wear good running shoes....I hear he likes to grope and likes a good blow *** now and then while working...yeah working. I know he is very intelligent because he can get a good blank blank and still talk to heads of state. Concentrate and all that that entails. Yeah....he's smart!! ) Bree >On the other hand, I think Joni is an exceptionally economical "actress" in >her vocal performances. You do get a sense of Joni concentrating when she >sings, (perhaps not as intensely as,say, Joan Baez), but then Joni will do >something like flashing her eyes in "Coyote" during the "Last Waltz" or >that >haunting catch in her throat on the word "harm" in the SHADOWS AND LIGHT >version of "Amelia". It makes me wonder why she hasn't dabbled into acting >like Baez or Judy Collins...or Cher (!) Can you picture Joni breaking >into >films in the 70's? I can see her instead of Goldie Hawn in SHAMPOO...A >STAR >IS BORN with Joni and James Taylor...Joni as one of the three women in THE >WITCHES OF EASTWICK?... SOPHIES CHOICE?!!! Anyway, I'm rambling...Thanks >again, Bob...once again, you've made me very happy. And, in your honor, >COVERS FRISBEE has been banned in my county. Harry _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:10:02 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: anyone for the chatroom? It's raining here on the east coast so I'm staying home. Does anyone feel like chitty chatting? ~rose bored in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 21:55:43 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: DON JUANS RECKLESS DAUGHTER Mark, I had never thought of the album as mini-concepts as for I own both the CD and the record. I have to listen to it sometime soon again. As I am sure we all have. Blair NP; Boogie on Reggae Woman _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #367 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)