From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #291 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 17 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 291 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: July 17 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] was Wilco, now Aimee Mann (NJC) ["J. G." ] What a Concept! (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #289 [Nnamani Ugu ] Edmonton? (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: was Wilco, now Aimee Mann (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: Barandgrill...I get it! JC [Engwall57@aol.com] Re: DJRD & NRH [Engwall57@aol.com] Dolly Redux - njc ["Jerry Notaro" ] This is a new one! (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Facing the Music njc ["Kate Bennett" ] from a friend ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Facing the Music/Janis Ian's Internet Debacle njc ["Brenda" ] Re: Dolly Redux - njc [Randy Remote ] \White Sox fans and Joni [Vince Lavieri ] RE: \White Sox fans and Joni ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: \White Sox fans and Joni [Randy Remote ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:01:48 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: July 17 On July 17 the following item was published: 1998: "Dylan, Mitchell, and Morrison a Hit and Miss Event" - Goldmine (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980717g.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:22:00 -0700 From: "J. G." Subject: was Wilco, now Aimee Mann (NJC) on 15 Jul 2002 16:37:06 -0700 Brenda wrote: >I think Aimee's situation was quite different [from Wilco's]. Imago >went >out of business and wouldn't let her put the record out once she >signed >with >Reprise. And her subsequent releases on Geffen lost >money. No one > >wanted to sign her. Just as my own two cents, I'd say it was Geffen's fault that I'm With Stupid failed to sell. Unless you were a die hard fan or a genuine music whore, you'd have been hard pressed to know it was out. They put "That's Just What You Are" out on the Melrose Place CD and then didn't release IWS in a timely fashion. It's always struck me as odd that Aimme got such a raw deal with Imago's folding. They tried to charge her twice for "Whatever" and then refused to let her record. With Paula Cole they ended up handing her off to Warner and she got the full promotional push! Thank goodness she finally gets to make her own decisions...and good for Wilco. At least the company did the honorable thing and let them go without much fuss. Long may they run... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:02:02 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: What a Concept! (NJC) Joni's buddy Chaka dubbed as "the Pat Butcher of Funk" http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4462856,00.html "Cor Blimey", she says.... "Sing sexy and strong," she urges, then says, smiling: "Sexy and strong - what a concept." PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 06:51:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Nnamani Ugu Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #289 Preventing the Palestinian Leader, President Yasser Arafat from leading his people to the actualization of the Palestinian State as proposed by President George W. Bush is like preventing Reverend Moses from taking Israelites to Canaan, the Promised Land. Americans are acting like God in this case. Are there? JMDL Digest wrote: JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 289 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Today in History: July 15 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] bunny advice njc ["Kate Bennett" ] under blank revisited njc ["Kate Bennett" ] integrity NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: language njc [Mags N Brei ] Re: language njc [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Meeting in Paris. (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: wilco (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: language njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: wilco (NJC) ["gene mock" ] Re: language njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] DJRD & NRH ["Erica Trudelle" ] Who is "A strange Boy" about? [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #288 - NJC Corruption, etc. [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: DJRD & NRH [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: wilco (NJC) [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: wilco (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: wilco (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: wilco (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: wilco (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: DJRD & NRH [Randy Remote ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #288 - NJC Corruption, etc. [Randy Remote joni and relationships ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: language njc ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: language njc [Rick and Susan ] Re: DJRD & NRH ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Who is "A strange Boy" about? ["Suze Cameron" ] RE: language njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: language njc ["Heather" ] RE: language njc ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: joni and relationships [Randy Remote ] Re: language njc [Randy Remote ] Re: joni and relationships ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: language njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Star Wars NJC ["kakki" ] Re: aggressive enrichment NJC ["kakki" ] RE: language/older folks buying music njc ["Brenda" ] Re: language njc ["Brenda" ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 03:00:36 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: July 15 1972: Joni performs at Mariposa Folk Festival - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:13:38 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: bunny advice njc we had a lop eared bunny that loved to chew all the electric chords in the house so beware! sooo cute though ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:13:35 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: under blank revisited njc here's another one courstesy of robin williams...one nation under canada over mexico... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:35:12 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: integrity NJC Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles and Tim Radford Monday July 15, 2002 The GuardianUS scientists admit the truth - new discovery was an elementary fabrication. >>What was hailed as a major scientific discovery of two new heavy elements three years ago now turns out to have been based on fabricated evidence, academics have revealed. A team of scientists at Lawrence Berkeley laboratory in California claimed in 1999 that a team of 15 scientists had discovered an element called "ununoctium" by firing high-energy krypton ions at a lead target. The results were published hurriedly and created ripples across the scientific community. The significance of the discovery was that it appeared to confirm theories about an "island of stability" for nuclei and thus advance scientific knowledge. But when scientists in Germany and Japan unsuccessfully tried to replicate the results, questions about the authenticity of the claims surfaced. Last year, the laboratory finally withdrew the claims. Now they have admitted that the research had been fabricated. "There is nothing more important for a laboratory than scientific integrity," Mr Shank told laboratory employees. "Only with such integrity will the public, which funds our work, have confidence in us." He added: "In this case, the most elementary checks and data archiving were nor done." My question is: Does the above situation prove/show/suggest that the system works and there are one or two incompetent / inefficient / misguided (criminal?) types working in it, or does it suggest that any system that includes inefficiency is by definition a bad system? Now if we apply this logic to the SEC (or Enron, or Capitalism in general), can we assume that the system is fine but the details need fine tuning, or is it more realistic to believe that the problems are systematic rather than glitches? Maybe you will say that no system is perfect and that we will never achieve perfection, and I may agree with you(se) or not, but should we not reject the 'one bad apple in the barrel' scenario and instead aim for perfection? After all, everybody needs a goal in life. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: language njc - - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > > on a similar but less crude note...is the kind of thing that i guess > coaches > used to say to their teams such as "throws like a girl" or "runs like > a > girl". i thought this kind of talk was pretty outmoded (publically at > least) > until i heard david letterman say something along those lines > recently...& > it really bugged me...especially now when women's sports are finally > getting > the accolades they deserve... Kate, when I did my degree a few years ago, one of the courses I took was Women in Sport in the 20th century. Sad to say that kind of comment runs rampant still. I heard it first hand on several occasions, while running, playing baseball, basketball etc. Whenever I heard that 'oh you throw like a girl or you 'run' like a girl, I could not help but reply, well I guess so, might be because I AM a girl. (double whammy, a CANADIAN GIRL at that ;~)) I miss running very much. Guess I will have to join Jimmy on the ice rink or the two Bobs in the pool! Speaking of skating Jimmy, I just found a photo from my skating days as a little kid. My siblings and I were in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs performed by our small town Winter Club.. I could send it along with my resume ;~P Mags...dreaming of running again soon. np: the birds outside my window > Why all this women in this ... women in that ...politics/business/sports/music. Are women not the opposite of men. There ought not to be anything special in having them do whatever the men do.After all it is either them fking men or men fking them. > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com > Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs > Over the Moon- > "bringing the melancholy world of twilight > to life almost like magic" All Music Guide > ******************************************** ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:48:59 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: language njc Kate, I heard that comment too, and was unsettled that my fave Dave Letterman used the phrase. For what it is worth, someone used that phrase on the White Sox message boards once, just once. Someone (modesty forbids me stating who) called the poster on that as sexist language, was scoffed at, and then a major number of women and men responded in a great and massive support of that phrase being old, tired, incorrect, and sexist. And we have never seen it again! The women who responded tened to be women who entered sports in the post Title IX era. The men who reponded in support tended to be fathers of daughters now or recently in sports, again, post Title IX era. Vince > --- Kate Bennett wrote: > on a similar but less crude note...is the kind of thing that i guess > > coaches used to say to their teams such as "throws like a girl" or > "runs like a girl". i thought this kind of talk was pretty outmoded > (publically at > > least) until i heard david letterman say something along those lines > > recently...& it really bugged me.. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:07:47 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Meeting in Paris. (NJC) Paz wrote > . Freda and I had a wonderful time in > Paris and Monaco last year (YOU KNOW Prince Albert invited us over for a > few > days). I think you mean someone WEARING a Prince Albert invited you over for a few days :~) Jimmy Oh yea! That reminds me ...President Bush invited me for a Dinner on July 20. Incidentally, I can't even secure American visa. May be I have to cancel the appointment. Ugu - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:56:08 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: wilco (NJC) > have i missed any discussion about wilco's latest > and greatest album, "yankee hotel foxtrot"? for the > last two months i have listened to it nonstop. and > i hadn't really been a fan of previous wilco things, > because the country rock stuff doesn't always do it > for me... Hi Emily, If you've missed any discussion about this record, than I have as well! ;~) It'll make a lot of "best" lists at the end of the year, it IS hypnotically catchy. I'm just surprised that you weren't equally enamored with "Being There" & "Summerteeth", neither of which I would categorize as "country rock". Anyway, Wilco is superb and what makes YHF even funnier is that the brainthrobs at Reprise wouldn't even release it, they kicked it back to Wilco as being unacceptable. Proves once again how out of touch the suits are! Bob NP: Eminem, "Square Dance" - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:55:37 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: language njc good for you calling someone on their language! yay for the fathers of girls on teams... on a related subject, at the college where i used to work, there is a woman who coaches & teaches phys ed & has been there a long time...& a man who has been there even longer as one of the men's coaches...they are friends now but she told me that when she was first hired that he protested vehemently saying that she was taking away a man's job...some things have changed a little i guess... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:41:09 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: wilco (NJC) "yankee hotel foxtrot" is the military's phonetic language for the letters y,h, and f. does anybody know the significance of the "y,h,f" on wilco's album? incidentally, the word "wilco" is the military radio response for "will comply." later gene - - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:56 AM Subject: Re: wilco (NJC) > > have i missed any discussion about wilco's latest > > and greatest album, "yankee hotel foxtrot"? for the > > last two months i have listened to it nonstop. and > > i hadn't really been a fan of previous wilco things, > > because the country rock stuff doesn't always do it > > for me... > > Hi Emily, > > If you've missed any discussion about this record, than I have as well! ;~) > It'll make a lot of "best" lists at the end of the year, it IS hypnotically catchy. I'm just surprised that you weren't equally enamored with "Being There" & "Summerteeth", neither of which I would categorize as "country rock". Anyway, Wilco is superb and what makes YHF even funnier is that the brainthrobs at Reprise wouldn't even release it, they kicked it back to Wilco as being unacceptable. Proves once again how out of touch the suits are! > > Bob > > NP: Eminem, "Square Dance" - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:09:43 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: language njc > >>It is unfortunate, but probably not coincidental, that the very worst >thing you can call a man or a women refers to the sexual organs of a >woman.<< > >on a similar but less crude note...is the kind of thing that i guess >coaches >used to say to their teams such as "throws like a girl" or "runs like a >girl". i thought this kind of talk was pretty outmoded (publically at >least) This brought to mind, Kate,I recently watched a womens golf tournament in which the woman who won was forty something. Well...the darn announcer never let the audience forget. If he brought her age up once, he brought it up a good dozen times. To the point I was getting really annoyed. Now, anybody that knows even a little about the game of golf knows it has as much to do with mental strength as well as the physical side of it too. ( But you know this little old lady of forty could hardly make it round the eighteen holes much less concetrate on her game. How she pulled this off...a miracle...I tell you. This was the guys attitude. ) Same scenario....but if it was a forty something man who won....would his age have had the same focus? ??????? Bree.. who just took up golf.....and stinks....but not because I am forty something.. >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:20:56 -0400 From: "Erica Trudelle" Subject: DJRD & NRH hey all, I just got DJRD and NRH....I wish to receive any and all comments, advice, warnings, and joyus remarks about listening to one or both of these. I know I know, it's a long time coming to add these 2 to the ol' collection, that's just the way it goes. Thanks for your knowledge! Erica NP: some song I don't know the name of on DJRD what are the meanings of DJRD and NRH _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:32:31 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Who is "A strange Boy" about? Does anyone know who the strange boy in Hejira is about?There are so many songs in which I'd like to know who they're about... - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:37:07 -0400 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #288 - NJC Corruption, etc. > the system as it stands is completely corrupted > by moneyed interests, and there is very little difference > between the two parties. You're right, the system is corrupt, and when it comes to fundraising and influence there isn't much if any difference. But when it comes to appointing Supreme Court justices and policy makers at Interior and EPA (and other trivial matters), there are big differences. Bryan - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:21:24 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD & NRH > I just got DJRD and NRH....I wish to receive any and all comments, advice, > warnings, and joyus remarks about listening to one or both > of these. Congrats on the purchase, Erica...both are good efforts, DJRD the stronger of the 2. It's significant to put DJRD in its perspective as far as time is concerned. In 1977, as far as "popular" music you had classic rock, you had disco, you had punk & new wave...and then there was DJRD. It took a lot of the Hejira sound and pushed it even farther to the edge. The lyrics are a bit more cryptic, and of course there's Paprika Plains which is in a class of itself. If you're reading through the lyrics as you're listening, there are a lot of written lyrics in DJRD that she doesn't sing, so be sure & seek them out. Several themes abound in it, relationships & dreams among them. Bob NP: Smash Mouth, "Let's Rock" - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:37:09 -0400 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: Re: wilco (NJC) hi bob! >I'm just surprised that you weren't equally > enamored with "Being There" & "Summerteeth", neither of which I > would categorize as "country rock". Anyway, Wilco is superb and > what makes YHF even funnier is that the brainthrobs at Reprise > wouldn't even release it right--i guess those albums aren't the countryish ones. actually, i only have "being there" (in addition to YHF), and i haven't given it adequate listen time. what i'm thinking of is mainly jeff tweedy's earlier collaboration with jay farrar--both courtney and a friend of his are devotees of "alt-country" music, and the only wilco i'd heard before YHF was on some mixed tapes we have...sounding very roots rockin', like uncle tupelo. not that that's a BAD thing! i'll keep on with "being there," although the first song kinda turns me off (on disc 1). yeah, it's pretty wild about the reprise situation. reminds me of aimee mann! apparently there is a new documentary on wilco coming out soon--called "i am trying to break your heart" which captures some good star-maker-machinery dirt on that situation. can't wait for that, and for the wilco show we're taking in on 8/3, in order to celebrate courtney finishing the illinois bar exam! - - -- emily - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:01:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: wilco (NJC) Not at all, it's just a matter of taste. I dig it all, Tupelo, Son Volt, Wilco, Jay Farrar's solo "Sebastopol" from last year...bring it on! :~) And yes, that first Being There track is very off-putting, but once you get past that one, it's smooooth sailing. Bob, eagerly awaiting the new David Baerwald due out tomorrow - first release in 9 years! === message truncated === Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:46:25 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Edmonton? (NJC) Any Jonilistas in Edmonton, Alberta? I'll be up there for the folk festival in August. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:32:26 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: was Wilco, now Aimee Mann (NJC) On 17 Jul 2002 at 0:22, J. G. wrote: > on 15 Jul 2002 16:37:06 -0700 Brenda wrote: > > >I think Aimee's situation was quite different [from Wilco's]. Imago > >>went out of business and wouldn't let her put the record out once > >she >signed with >Reprise. And her subsequent releases on Geffen lost > >>money. No one > > >wanted to sign her. > > Just as my own two cents, I'd say it was Geffen's fault that I'm With > Stupid failed to sell. Unless you were a die hard fan or a genuine > music whore, you'd have been hard pressed to know it was out. They > put "That's Just What You Are" out on the Melrose Place CD and then > didn't release IWS in a timely fashion. > Well, not to go to deeply into defending Geffen, mostly because I didn't work there and I didn't sit in those meetings. There's no question that Aimee got the raw end of the stick. But things often look one way on the outside while there's something different going on inside. I think the blame in this case lies squarely with Imago. She was still signed with them when the Melrose Place CD was released in '94, so they licensed the track to Warners. Geffen didn't enter the mix until sometime in '95 when the head of Imago negotiated the deal for them to take her contract and he took his sweet time doing it. I don't think that deal was closed until late '95. So the timing was out of Geffen's hands. Again, I wasn't there, but my experience has been that no label will turn its nose up at a hit. I'm sure the folks at Geffen were anxious to get that record out as soon as they could because there was momentum. They wouldn't have just sat on it. But you can't release what you don't own. B n.p.: News on NPR - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:23 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Barandgrill...I get it! JC Mark, I think you are correct in that the question, "Who you gonna get to do the dirty work when all the slaves are free" is essential to the meaning of Passion Play. You hit the nail on the head when you said that the question could be interpreted two ways. Joni is the queen of dualism, so it is hard to say which question she is really asking - probably both! This is at least the third song with a reference to slaves in it ("a good slave loves the good book...", "where the wealth is made, the slaves will be taken.") This must be a question that she ponders quite often. Will empire succeed empire ad infinitum, with the powerful preying on the weaker ones, until mankind is no more? Or will a radical transformation occur, when there will be no more slaves? The second scenario is possible, with the level of technology we have reached, if it were shared with all. Much meaningless grunt work could be eliminated, freeing everyone to live fuller lives. But Joni is more aware than most of the "darkness in men's eyes" that seems to kill any chance of that ever occurring. Thanks to all for giving me food for thought. I was totally lost on this song before this discussion. Ruth in Richmond NP: 'The Job That Ate My Brain' The Ramones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:03:28 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: DJRD & NRH "...in Marlena and Otis when she sings "while muslims stick up washington" it still sends shivers down my spine. The album is pure genius." Joni is way, way ahead of her time. Who was even thinking about Muslims in 1978? Now you cannot read a newspaper or watch T.V without seeing something about Muslims. It must be tiresome to wait so long for everyone else to catch up to her. Ruthie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:41:32 -0400 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Dolly Redux - njc And it is her voice that makes the big gambles of Halos and Horns - particularly a cover of Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven - pay off. With her aching cry and plaintive phrasing, Parton emphasizes the song's quiet bluesiness over its rock and roll grandiosity, reviving the reflective power of this most familiar (and covered) of rock songs. Its conclusion - where Parton is backed be an ethereal sounding gospel choir - could easily be mawkish or camp, but she gamely matches their bombast with her country squall. Like her cover of Knockin' on Heaven's Door with South African a cappella group Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Parton's risks here bring great, unexpected pleasures. New York magazine July 15, 2002 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:02:41 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: This is a new one! (njc) wow victor, & this is the person handling your job application...could mean the opportunities are promising or very scary...lol...thanks for this! >>>ATTENDANT: [writes down GA DL ...] So, is Georgia considered part of South Carolina.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:25:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Facing the Music njc sorry its so long, i wasn't given a link...(relates to the discussion on rome burning & rock stars falling, etc.) Facing the Music Rock stars and music-industry execs once ruled the earth, but now -- in terms of size and profit margins -- the music industry is becoming the book business (minus the literacy). BY MICHAEL WOLFF Hemingway had rock-star status (and even impersonators). Steinbeck was Springsteen. Salinger was Kurt Cobain. Dorothy Parker was Courtney Love. James Jones was David Crosby. Mailer was Eminem. This is to say -- and I understand how hard this is to appreciate -- that novelists were iconic for much of the first half of the last century. They set the cultural agenda. They made lots of money. They lived large (and self-medicated). They were the generational voice. For a long time, anybody with any creative ambition wanted to write the Great American Novel. But starting in the fifties, and then gaining incredible force in the sixties, rock-and-roll performers eclipsed authors as cultural stars. Rock and roll took over fiction's job as the chronicler and romanticizer of American life (that rock and roll became much bigger than fiction relates, I'd argue, more to scalability and distribution than to relative influence), and the music business replaced the book business as the engine of popular culture. Now, though, another reversal, of similar commercial and metaphysical magnitude, is taking place. Not, of course, that the book business is becoming rock and roll, but that the music industry is becoming, in size and profit margins and stature, the book business. In other words, there'll still be big hits (Celine Dion is Stephen King), but even if you're fairly high up on the music-business ladder, most of your time, which you'd previously spent with megastars, will be spent with mid-list stuff. Where before you'd be happy only at gold and platinum levels, soon you'll be grateful if you have a release that sells 30,000 or 40,000 units -- that will be your bread and butter. You'll sweat every sale and dollar. Other aspects of the business will also contract -- most of the perks and largesse and extravagance will dry up completely. The glamour, the influence, the youth, the hipness, the hookers, the drugs -- gone. Instead, it will be a low-margin, consolidated, quaintly anachronistic business, catering to an aging clientele, without much impact on an otherwise thriving culture awash in music that only incidentally will come from the music industry. This glum (if also quite funny) fate is surely the result of compounded management errors -- the know-nothingness and foolishness and acting-out that, for instance, just recently resulted in what seems to be the final death of Napster. But it's way larger, too. Management solutions in the music business have, rightly, given way to a pure, no-exit kind of fatalism. It's all pain. It's all breakdown. Music-business people, heretofore among the most self-satisfied and self-absorbed people of the age, are suddenly interesting, informed, even ennobled, as they become fully engaged in the subject of their own demise. Producers, musicians, marketing people, agents . . . they'll talk you through what's happened to their business -- it's part B-school case study and part Pilgrim's Progress. Start with radio. Radio and rock and roll have had the most remarkable symbiotic relationship in media -- the synergy that everybody has tried to re-create in media conglomerates. Radio got free content; music labels got free promotion. Radio's almost effortless cash flow, and mom-and-pop organization (there were once 5,133 owners of U.S. radio stations), made it ripe for consolidation, which began in the mid-eighties and was mostly completed as soon as Congress removed virtually all ownership limits in 1996. A handful of companies now control nearly the entirety of U.S. radio, with Clear Channel and its more than 1,200 stations being the undisputed Death Star. (Clear Channel is also one of the nation's major live promoters, and uses its airtime leverage to force performers to use its concert services, as Britney Spears and others have charged.) Radio, heretofore ad hoc and eccentric and local, underwent a transformation in which it became formatted, rational, and centralized. Its single imperative was to keep people from moving the dial -- seamlessness became the science of radio. The music business suddenly had to start producing music according to very stringent (if unwritten) commercial guidelines (it could have objected or rebelled -- but it rolled over instead; what's more, in a complicated middleman strategy of music brokers and independent promoters, labels have, in effect, been forced to pay to have their boring music aired). Format became law. Everything had to sound the way it was supposed to sound. Fungibility was king. Familiarity was the greatest virtue. Once Sheryl Crow was an established hit, the music business was compelled to offer up an endless number of Sheryl Crow imitators. Then when the Sheryl Crow imitators became a reliable radio genre, Sheryl Crow was compelled to imitate them. (Entertainment Weekly, without irony, recently praised the new Moby album for sounding like his last.) But then, just as radio playlists become closely regulated, the Internet appears. "Suddenly there was another distribution avenue offering far greater product range," notes my friend Bob Thiele, who's been producing, writing, performing, and doing A&R work in L.A. for twenty years (and whose father was Buddy Holly's producer), and who, in my memory, never before talked about avenues of distribution. "And then, before anyone was quite aware of what was happening, file-sharing replaced radio as the engine of music culture." It wasn't just that it was free music -- radio offered free music. But whatever you wanted was free (whenever you wanted it). The Internet is music consumerism run amok, resulting not only in billions of dollars of lost sales but in an endless bifurcation of taste. The universe fragmented into sub-universes, and then sub-sub-universes. The music industry, which depends on large numbers of people with similar interests for its profit margins, now had to deal with an ever-growing numbers of fans with increasingly diverse and eccentric interests. It is hard to think of a more profound business crisis. You've lost control of the means of distribution, promotion, and manufacturing. You've lost quality control -- in some sense, there's been a quality-control coup. You've lost your basic business model -- what you sell has become as free as oxygen. It's a philosophical as well as a business crisis -- which compounds the problem, because the people who run the music business are not exactly philosophers. "They're thugs," says a former high-ranking music exec of my acquaintance, who is no shrinking violet himself. Such thuggishness, when the business was about courting difficult acts, enforcing contracts, procuring drugs, paying off everyone who needed to be paid off, may once have been a key management advantage. But it probably isn't the main virtue you're looking for when you're in a state of existential crisis. Being street-smart is not being smart. In a situation of such vast uncertainty, with the breakdown of all prior business and cultural assumptions, you don't necessarily want to have to depend upon, say, Tommy Mottola to create a new paradigm. For a long while, the management response at the major labels had a weird combination of denial and foot stamping: putting Napster out of business-then sort-of/sort-of-not buying Napster -- all the while being told by everybody who knows anything about technology that, no matter what the music industry does, or who it sues, music will be, inevitably, free. Duh. There is, too, a management critique -- perhaps most succinctly put by Don Henley in his now-famous post-Grammy letter wherein he quoted Mel Brooks in Blazing Saddles: "Gentlemen, gentlemen! We've got to protect our phony baloney jobs!" -- that sees record labels as generally engaged in the usual practice of ripping off anyone who can be ripped off while remaining oblivious to the fact that Rome is burning. But for the most part, denial, and even the reflex to just keep squeezing the last dollar until there is nothing left to squeeze, is passing (labels have even recently awoken to the problems of dealing with the radio behemoths and are frantically, and way too late, trying to find reasons to sue the radio guys and gain back a little leverage). I had a very nice sushi lunch in the Sony dining room the other day where I heard about the generally gallows mood at Sony Music. The recent past was very bad; the future was likely to be worse. All money earned from here on in would be harder to earn. This felt like acceptance to me: We simply don't know what to do. The truth is, there might not be anything much to do. Here are the choices: If you're providing free entertainment, which is obviously what the music business is doing, then you have to figure out some way to sell advertising to the people who are paying attention to your free music. But nobody seems to have any idea how that might be done. Or you can provide stuff that's free, and use the free stuff to promote something else of more value that people, you hope, will buy -- now called the "legitimate alternative." (Putting video on the CD is one of those ideas -- though, of course, you can file-share video too.) Or sell the CD at a level that makes it cheap enough to compete with free (free, after all, has its own costs for the consumer). It's a spreadsheet solution. There will continue to be a market for selling music, however diminished -- but it will have to be cheaper music. Margins will shrink even more. Accordingly, costs will have to shrink. Spending a few million to launch an act will shortly be a thing of the past. (The formal catalyst of the beginning of the end of big development costs may be the Wall Street Journal's story a few months ago that precisely accounted for the $2.2 million launch costs of a singer named Carly Hennessy, who went on to sell 378 CDs.) A&R guys making half a million are also history (in the future, they'll start at $40,000 and max out at $150,000). And no more parties. And then there is the CD theory. This theory is widely accepted -- with great pride, in fact -- in the music industry. It represents the ultimate music-biz hustle. But its implications are seldom played out. The CD theory holds that the music business actually died about twenty years ago. It was revived without anyone knowing it had actually died because compact-disc technology came along and everybody had to replace what they'd bought for the twenty years prior to the advent of the CD. The music business, this theory acknowledges, is about selling technology as much as music. From mono to stereo to Walkman. It just happens that the next stage of technological development in the music business has largely excluded the music business itself. The further implication, though, might be the more interesting and painful one: You can't depend on just the music. Rock and roll is just an anomaly. While for a generation or two it created a go-go industry -- the youthquake -- it is unreasonable to expect that anything so transforming can remain a permanent condition. To a large degree, the music industry is, then, a fluke. A bubble. Finally the bubble burst. But not with a pop. It's an almost imperceptible, but highly meaningful, alteration in context. Alanis Morissette becomes Grace Paley. Bono becomes John Hersey. Fiona Apple is Joyce Carol Oates. Moby is Martin Amis. This is not so bad. And best of all, our children -- all right, our grandchildren -- won't want to become rock stars. From the June 10, 2002 issue of New York Magazine. Copyright ) 2002, New York Metro, Llc. All rights reserved. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:28:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: from a friend sorry this isn't njc but i wanted everyone to see it in hope of it helping someone... >I have good news regarding my progress with the amazing formula I've been taking to cure my ovarian cancer, Protocel. Three months ago I was given up on by my oncologist but a friend told me about an obscure formulation that had cured many people in the past of all kinds of cancers.. I tried it when my CA 125, a blood test for ovarian cancer, was 5960, the highest my oncologist had ever seen.. he advised me to call hospice. Today I got my blood test back and my markers have DROPPED over 4000 points to 1650.. WAY more than i ever expected.. needless to say.. I am very happy and amazed. This brings hope to a very hopeless situation for many many people stricken with not only cancer, but other viral conditions, Aids, MS, Hepatitis C, . So please use this information to help others. I have put much information onto my website about Protocel at: http://abarefootdoctor.com and I am happy to talk with anyone who wants to hear about it.< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:58:56 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Facing the Music/Janis Ian's Internet Debacle njc On 17 Jul 2002 at 10:25, Kate Bennett wrote: > sorry its so long, i wasn't given a link...(relates to the discussion > on rome burning & rock stars falling, etc.) > Here's the link: http://www.newyorkmag.com/page.cfm?page_id=6099 The one point I think he misses here is distinguishing the major label recording industry from everything else in the "music business." Recorded music is fast approaching a price of zero, but live music is not. The thing about the Janis Ian article that was noteworthy to me in the growing lexicon of editorial on the subject was the point about the number of releases and the presence of music all around us: "And to make matters worse, we hear music everywhere, whether we want to or not; stores, amusement parks, highway rest stops. The original concept of Muzak (to be played in elevators so quietly that its soothing effect would be subliminal) has run amok. Why buy records when you can learn the entire Top 40 just by going shopping for groceries? " Live performances are scarce compared to the abundance of recorded music. And if Clear Channel continues on the path of the last couple of months (declining stock price and more legal attention than they anticipated) the company will, with any luck, be broken up and the concert business will be more competitive. And the artists who give more than just "sounding like the record" will continue to pack houses. This is the place where his analogy with authors and rock stars falls down in my view. The experience of hearing Toni Morrison read "Song of Solomon" was great but it was not nearly as monumental as hearing Joni perform "Hejira" live with an orchestra. B n.p.: Stevie Ray Vaughan - "Voodoo Chile" - ------------------------------ Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:24:43 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is "A strange Boy" about? In a message dated 07/16/2002 8:13:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: << Although I do have to say I can relate to this lyric: "Grow up!" I cried And as the smoke was clearing he said "Give me one good reason why" Bob, growing older but not "up" >> "I was so much older then I'm younger then that now" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:51:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Facing the Music njc Interesting article, to be sure. Kate Bennett wrote: > sorry its so long, i wasn't given a link...(relates to the discussion on > rome burning & rock stars falling, etc.) > BY MICHAEL WOLFF > > Radio and rock and roll have had the most remarkable symbioti > relationship > in media -- the synergy that everybody has tried to re-create in media > conglomerates. Radio got free content; music labels got free promotion. > > "They're thugs," says a former high-ranking music exec of my acquaintance, > who is no shrinking violet himself. > > Such thuggishness, when the business was about courting difficult acts, > enforcing contracts, procuring drugs, paying off every > one who needed to be > paid off, This one's for you, Alan Freid- Wherever you go Whatever you do Because the things they're doing today Would make a saint out of you Cash-a-wadda wadda, cash-a-wadda wadda..... -Neil Young, "Payola Blues" Brenda said: Live performances are scarce compared to the abundance of recorded music. And if Clear Channel continues on the path of the last couple of months (declining stock price and more legal attention than they anticipated) the company will, with any luck, be broken up and the concert business will be more competitive. And the artists who give more than just "sounding like the record" will continue to pack houses. This is the place where his analogy with authors and rock stars falls down in my view. The experience of hearing Toni Morrison read "Song of Solomon" was great but it was not nearly as monumental as hearing Joni perform "Hejira" live with an orchestra. (Randy now) Another place the analogy breaks down is that you can create a novel with a typewriter and a stack of paper. Creating a full blown professional-sounding record takes wads of time and money, equipment and personnel. There has to be a way to make it pay. Otherwise only the independantly wealthy will be making records. John Ashcroft will be in heavy rotation on MTV! Oh God, the real future of music! RR practicing scales while Rome burns ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:13:27 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Dolly Redux - njc Jerry Notaro wrote: > Like her cover of Knockin' on Heaven's Door with South African a > cappella group Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Parton's risks here bring great, > unexpected pleasures. > > New York magazine > July 15, 2002 I don't know if it's Ladysmith, but the track is not a cappella, it's full rockin' reggae, and she really sings it. It's an unexpected combination but I thought it was cool. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:28:39 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: \White Sox fans and Joni So on the White Sox fan boards some dude mentions that he likes jazz and I of course posted that he should listen to Mingus and then someone else posts about how great Joni's music is and discusses eloquently all of the albums through DJRD and I posted check out the stuff after that and someone else posts that Joni is the best lyricist ever and to prove that he posts the words to Amelia! So I do a plug for the JMDL and someone starts doing research off of JMDL links and starts posting Joni accolades and others chime in how much they like Joni too, and thus it was a sweet Joni day on the White Sox message boards. Only White Sox fans are classy enough to post the words to Amelia to prove who the world's best song writer is! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:39:19 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: \White Sox fans and Joni > So on the White Sox fan boards some dude mentions that he likes jazz and > I of course posted that he should listen to Mingus and then someone else > posts about how great Joni's music is and discusses eloquently all of > the albums through DJRD and I posted check out the stuff after that and > someone else posts that Joni is the best lyricist ever and to prove that > he posts the words to Amelia! > Funny you mention Amelia...I played it last night at an open mic and it was an unreal experience...I can't think of any other song that comes close to it...it seems to really cross the line and become more than just a song, a transcending experience reaching into the very heart of life itself...the lyrics especially... We were talking about it today and agreed that it is one of the best songs ever written. Synchronicity... Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:01:39 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: \White Sox fans and Joni > > So on the White Sox fan boards some dude mentions that he likes jazz and > > I of course posted that he should listen to Mingus and then someone else > > posts about how great Joni's music is and discusses eloquently all of > > the albums through DJRD and I posted check out the stuff after that and > > someone else posts that Joni is the best lyricist ever and to prove that > > he posts the words to Amelia! > > > > Funny you mention Amelia...I played it last night at an open mic and it was > an unreal experience...I can't think of any other song that comes close to > it...it seems to really cross the line and become more than just a song, a > transcending experience reaching into the very heart of life itself...the > lyrics especially... > > We were talking about it today and agreed that it is one of the best songs > ever written. Synchronicity... > > Victor > I remember the first time I heard it, I was on the coast listening to a car radio, and there was this song...but the radio was coming in so poorly, I couldn't tell whether it was Joni or Paul Simon. RR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #291 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?