From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #290 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 17 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 290 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: language njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Today in History: July 16 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Golf after 40 (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] Re: Who is "A strange Boy" about? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Golf after 40 (NJC) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: DJRD & NRH ["blonde in the bleachers" ] wilco ["Kate Bennett" ] Dolly (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: wilco/small labels - njc ["Brenda" ] Re: Dolly (NJC) ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Dolly (NJC) [Penny ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #289 - DJRD [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Dolly (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Purple Prose Prize - njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: DJRD & NRH [Jim LHommedieu ] Re: language njc [Jim LHommedieu ] This is a new one! (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: This is a new one! (njc) [Lori in MD ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:05:32 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: language njc >Any listers care to expound on this subject? You >don't even have to be a parent. I see kids every >day at my summer job who just run wild through this >huge home improvement store with no supervision >whatsoever. It scares the heck out of me! KIDS....what is wrong with these kids today? HMMMMM....I'm not a parent...but was a child once and I changed many a diaper. I would have not made a good parent..I'm too selfish...and I like to go when I feel the urge. So it is just as well that I can not have children. I just know when I was a child I never wanted to bring shame to my parents...I had tremendous respect. It was always in my mind somewhere when I was doing something I should not have been: What would mother and daddy think? My siblings and I had curfews and certain things were expected....lines we could not cross. Certain language was out...I never, never would have dreamed of calling my parents some of the names I've heard kids call their parents today. I think in most cases it is upbringing.....and what you said....trying to be more of a friend than a parent. Frankly, my parents never tried to be my friend because they were not, they gave birth. We had fun times too...but they were my parents first. Oh and there are social problems that enter into it too. One parent homes....two parents homes where both work and the kids run wild. I feel sorry for some kids today....they are forced to grow up way before they are ready. This is what scares me. Childhood is so short and fleeting..why encourage grown up things? I think of these little girls in the beauty pageants. It sickens me...make-up, halter tops. I want to smack some sense into the mother. I think it is child abuse!! (it makes my blood boil) Well....I thank God I did not choose teaching as a profession...I've heard too many horror stories from teacher friends of mine. I think teachers should be paid more than than almost any profession I can think of. Quadruple what they make now. (raise upon raise every year) Anyway...I've zigzagged a little...but a very interesting topic. Bree n.p. Diana Krall....S'wonderful >Sue > >n.p. "The Promise" Tracy Chapman....gosh I love this >CD!!! > > >_____________________________________________________ >Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads >and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. >http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:09:05 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: July 16 1967: From rock author and archivist Johnny Black: Joni attends the Newport Folk Festival as a spectator and is photographed backstage with Leonard Cohen by David Gahr (Click link to see photo). Although Joni didn't perform on stage, she did participate in a songwriters' workshop in the afternoon with Judy Collins, Leonard Cohen and Janis Ian. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9612q.cfm 1983: Joni performs at the Garden State Arts Center in New Jersey. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/NY83.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:10:02 -0500 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Golf after 40 (NJC) Bree wrote: "This brought to mind, Kate,I recently watched a womens golf tournament in which the woman who won was forty something. Well...the darn announcer never let the audience forget. If he brought her age up once, he brought it up a good dozen times. To the point I was getting really annoyed. Now, anybody that knows even a little about the game of golf knows it has as much to do with mental strength as well as the physical side of it too. ( But you know this little old lady of forty could hardly make it round the eighteen holes much less concetrate on her game. How she pulled this off...a miracle...I tell you. This was the guys attitude. ) Same scenario....but if it was a forty something man who won....would his age have had the same focus? ???????" Sorry, Bree, but I must disagree with you here. The tournament you are probably referring to is the U.S. Women's Open of a few weeks back, won by Juli Inkster at the age of 42. I did not hear most of the commentary, and so don't know the tone in which the references to Inkster's age were delivered. But the fact is, Inkster has enjoyed a remarkable career resurgence in recent years, winning 3 or 4 major championships in her late 30s and early 40s, including this one. And, while golf is indeed a mental as well as a physical game, winning multiple majors after twenty years on tour is not the usual career trajectory for a professional. I see the comments less as sexist or "ageist" than as commending Inkster for a difficult job well done. Announcers have made and do make similar comments about male golfers. In 1998, when Mark O'Meara won both the Masters and the British Open in the same year, quite a lot of attention was given to the fact that he was 41 years old at the time, and that these were his first majors. And as recently as last Sunday, when forty-somethings predominated in the top ten spots at the Greater Milwaukee Open, announcers at ABC went so far as to **post the ages** of all those on the first page of the leaderboard. The tournament was won by Jeff Sluman, whose age of 44 was mentioned half a dozen times if it was mentioned once. OK. Off my soapbox! But you see, golf is my secret passion. ;-) Mary P., who stood no more than 5 feet away from Jack Nicklaus himself last Thursday, a fellow spectator in the gallery following his son Gary in the first round of the GMO. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:13:54 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Who is "A strange Boy" about? > I heard it was about Muller in his younger days. Good one, Sue! This song was actually the song most likely to be put on a compilation tape back in the latter 70's. A brilliant song, my own take on it is that it's not "about" anybody in particular, but rather like so many of Joni's songs is more of a pastiche of people, times, and images. Although I do have to say I can relate to this lyric: "Grow up!" I cried And as the smoke was clearing he said "Give me one good reason why" Bob, growing older but not "up" NP: Smashmouth, "Your Man" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:47:13 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Golf after 40 (NJC) >Sorry, Bree, but I must disagree with you here. The tournament you are >probably referring to is the U.S. Women's Open of a few weeks back, won by >Juli Inkster at the age of 42. Yes, this is the tournament I was referring to. Yeah...Juli,with I believe, several holes-in-one over the course of the weekend. :-) I did not hear most of the commentary, and so don't know the tone in which the references to Inkster's age were delivered. But the fact is, Inkster has enjoyed a remarkable career resurgence in recent years, winning 3 or 4 major championships in her late 30s and early 40s, including this one. I understand where you are coming from here; she beat women who were in some cases fifteen to twenty years younger than she. And of course not to comment on her age would be odd, but to go on and on....I thought the announcer just made too many comments about her being 42. His tone, as I remember, was fine. >Announcers have made and do make similar comments about male golfers. In 1998, when Mark O'Meara won both the Masters and the British Open in the same year, quite a lot of attention was given to the fact that he was 41 years old at the time, and that these were his first majors. And as recently as last Sunday, when forty-somethings predominated in the top ten spots at the Greater Milwaukee Open, announcers at ABC went so far as to **post the ages** of all those on the first page of the leaderboard. The tournament was won by Jeff Sluman, whose age of 44 was mentioned half a dozen times if it was mentioned once. Being new to the game, I'm glad to hear this. I saw the seniors tour out here at the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center and not much was said about age.(Mason,Ohio) Maybe because they were all old? ;-) >OK. Off my soapbox! But you see, golf is my secret passion. ;-) Get on your soapbox anytime....I'm always open to learning new things. I never could understand the fascination with the little ball, but now I do. IT is the greatest place in the world to think!! Bree, who still stinks.. but is determined to get better. >Mary P., >who stood no more than 5 feet away from Jack Nicklaus himself last >Thursday, a fellow spectator in the gallery following his son Gary in the >first round of the GMO. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:04:13 -0400 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: DJRD & NRH DJRD is currently my favorite Joni CD, I can't stop listening to it. The title track is absolutely unbelievable and in Marlena and Otis when she sings "while muslims stick up washington" it still sends shivers down my spine. The album is pure genius. >From: "Erica Trudelle" >Reply-To: "Erica Trudelle" >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: DJRD & NRH >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:20:56 -0400 > >hey all, >I just got DJRD and NRH....I wish to receive any and all comments, >advice, warnings, and joyus remarks about listening to one or both >of these. I know I know, it's a long time coming to add these 2 to >the ol' collection, that's just the way it goes. >Thanks for your knowledge! >Erica >NP: some song I don't know the name of on DJRD > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: >http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:41:11 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: tamborine (njc) http://www.theonion.com/onion3823/you_must_romance.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:55:04 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: wilco well it is positive to me that many are migrating towards those smaller labels because the accounting that requires an album sell in the gazillions at the majors is so limiting to the diversity of music...it seems like rome is burning to me.... bob wrote >once again how out of touch the suits are!< brenda wrote > they rejected it for not being commercial. They didn't think it would at least go platinum, and they're right - it won't. brenda also wrote > Aimee's situation was quite different...her subsequent releases on Geffen lost money. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:23 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Dolly (NJC) I've enjoyed many of Dolly Parton's songs, but I just heard some clips from her recent CD "Halos & Horns". There are some lovely songs, but I can't believe she attempts "Stairway to Heaven"!!!. Actually she does a better job on that song than Bread's "IF". You'll have to go to cdnow.com and listen to THAT sample. LOL Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:52:57 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: wilco/small labels - njc On 16 Jul 2002 at 11:55, Kate Bennett wrote: > well it is positive to me that many are migrating towards those > smaller labels because the accounting that requires an album sell in > the gazillions at the majors is so limiting to the diversity of > music...it seems like rome is burning to me.... > I agree. It is positive and really it is what has fueled the industry for some time. The Big Four have gotten to the size that they are by acquiring small labels instead of developing within. Nonesuch, Wilco's new label, is afterall a part of the Warner Music Group and is distributed by WEA. It's just that they plan projects and spend according to their reasonable expectations of success. They don't think Wilco will sell platinum either and likewise they don't spend as much as Reprise would. They are also very good at maintaining a roster that is in-line with their core aesthetic. And there is a vibrant indie label scene right now and has been for awhile; it's just not producing rock music. It's more about turntablists, underground dance culture (house, drum+bass, downtempo, etc.), rap, world beat, and many others. Rome is burning, but it's a good thing. Mostly because it will force the multinats to sell off their music divisions if they can't make them profitable. (There is a lot of hot talk right now about Vivendi breaking up Universal. EMI is interminably on the block.) And hopefully this will lead to fewer lawyers and accountants in A&R and marketing meetings. There is one caveat though. Artists have to be willing to accept what it means to sign with a smaller label. Despite what they may say, many want to be stars. They shun the majors publicly but they really want what the majors will help provide for them - a huge audience and multi-million dollar marketing budgets. It's the reason why a lot of smaller labels won't sign name artists who are passed their peak. They say they don't want to be with majors anymore but they expect their new label to spend like one because of "don't you know who I am." I've had plenty of first-hand experience with this, and believe me, it ain't pretty. > brenda also wrote > Aimee's situation was quite different...her > subsequent releases on Geffen lost money. > I should add that this was at a time when a record could sell 150,000 units at a major and be profitable. It really wasn't until the late 90's that things started to get so out of control in terms of needing to sell a million units to be considered a success. Back then I don't think anyone expected Aimee to sell gazillions. B n.p.: Les Nubians - "Autour de Minuit" - -------------------------------------------- "Radio has no future" - Lord Kelvin, 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:08:17 -0500 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Dolly (NJC) Coincidentally, I finally heard this song in its entirety on the radio this morning, and it really is good. Just forget Led Zeppelin and let yourself listen to Dolly's voice - just goes to show that a good song is still a good song. Also, seems like I read somewhere that Page & Plant were both pleased with Dolly's interpretation of the song, especially Plant - something about the spiritual nature of the song. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Subject: Re: Dolly (NJC) Jimmy wrote: Haven't heard it yet myself - can't imagine, to tell you the truth! But below is what Robert Plant says about it. Penny NEWS - Robert Plant Praises Dolly Parton's Cover Of 'Stairway To Heaven' 07/14/2002 (7/14/02, 10 a.m. ET) -- Among the stranger cover versions released this year is Dolly Parton's rendition of Led Zeppelin's "Stairway To Heaven," from her latest album Halos & Horns. Parton's version of the song, which includes some new lyrics that she wrote for it, was OK'd by Zeppelin principals Robert Plant and Jimmy Page. Plant tells LAUNCH that he's genuinely pleased with the way she treated the song. "You know, the thing is that she's not wailing--she's keeping it within the genre, and she's a good singer. Maybe she didn't get the last bit properly, and maybe that's sort of how the idioms have changed so much, that maybe it doesn't matter--maybe that's the way to do it. That's why we did with 'You Shook Me' or 'Whole Lotta Love,' or whatever it was. It's just trying to move it 'round a couple, 15 degrees around from magnetic north." However, Plant adds that he understands how some fans can find the notion of Parton doing any Led Zeppelin song, much less "Stairway," to be a bit odd. "For it to be covered here, there, and everywhere, it doesn't really matter," he said. "I mean, it's just another time now, so it's a bit like Kylie Minogue doing 'Smokestack Lightning.' You know, it's just so kinda odd that the artist and the elements are not in tune." Plant releases Dreamland, his first solo album in nine years, on Tuesday (July 16). He accompanies it with a tour that starts Saturday (July 20) at Rock Fest in Cadott, Wisconsin, before hooking up with the Who on July 26 at the Tweeter Center in Mansfield, Massachusetts, for a month of opening dates. - -- Gary Graff, Detroit Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:14:34 -0400 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #289 - DJRD > I just got DJRD and NRH....I wish to receive any and all comments, advice, warnings, and joyus remarks about listening to one or both of these. I was just listening to DJRD recently. A very fascinating (though in some ways weak) collection. But let's face it, nobody but nobody other than JM could have pulled that one off. Listen to the closing moments of Jericho -- the juxtaposition of Jaco's incredible bass and Shorter's sax is just remarkable (I think it was Wayne, I don't have the CD in front of me to check). Sometimes it's the small moments that make Joni's body of work so brilliant. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:19:50 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Dolly (NJC) Actually, the cd is getting rave reviews all around, from Spin to Rolling Stone. Go Dolly!!!! Jerry np Barbara Cook - My Father Penny wrote: > Jimmy wrote: > > can't > believe she attempts "Stairway to Heaven"!!!.> > > Haven't heard it yet myself - can't imagine, to tell you the truth! But > below is what Robert Plant says about it. > > Penny > > NEWS - Robert Plant Praises Dolly Parton's Cover Of 'Stairway To Heaven' > 07/14/2002 > (7/14/02, 10 a.m. ET) -- Among the stranger cover versions released this > year is Dolly Parton's rendition of Led Zeppelin's "Stairway To Heaven," > from her latest album Halos & Horns. Parton's version of the song, which > includes some new lyrics that she wrote for it, was OK'd by Zeppelin > principals Robert Plant and Jimmy Page. > > Plant tells LAUNCH that he's genuinely pleased with the way she treated > the song. "You know, the thing is that she's not wailing--she's keeping it > within the genre, and she's a good singer. Maybe she didn't get the last > bit properly, and maybe that's sort of how the idioms have changed so > much, that maybe it doesn't matter--maybe that's the way to do it. That's > why we did with 'You Shook Me' or 'Whole Lotta Love,' or whatever it was. > It's just trying to move it 'round a couple, 15 degrees around from > magnetic north." > > However, Plant adds that he understands how some fans can find the notion > of Parton doing any Led Zeppelin song, much less "Stairway," to be a bit > odd. "For it to be covered here, there, and everywhere, it doesn't really > matter," he said. "I mean, it's just another time now, so it's a bit like > Kylie Minogue doing 'Smokestack Lightning.' You know, it's just so kinda > odd that the artist and the elements are not in tune." > > Plant releases Dreamland, his first solo album in nine years, on Tuesday > (July 16). He accompanies it with a tour that starts Saturday (July 20) at > Rock Fest in Cadott, Wisconsin, before hooking up with the Who on July 26 > at the Tweeter Center in Mansfield, Massachusetts, for a month of opening > dates. > > -- Gary Graff, Detroit > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Purple Prose Prize - njc http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/english/2002.htm ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:56:36 -0400 From: Jim LHommedieu Subject: Re: DJRD & NRH "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" is Joni and Jaco at their creative peaks, simultaneously. "Paprika Plains" is best experience as a single track, in isolation, as the artist intended. Lama ps, Oh, yeah, "Night Ride Home" is a good album. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:42:06 -0400 From: Jim LHommedieu Subject: Re: language njc I think you need two sessions per week at $90 per and I don't take insurance. We'll start Thursday. Bring your most recent dream about pumpernickel and a ball of twine. Lama :) Sue asked, >>>>>o.k., I wasn't going to respond but this is killing me....I say "you throw like a girl" to the elementary boys when they have a really good arm. It ticks them off so when they complain I ask them to catch a pitch from me (former pitcher). When they scream, cry and shake their hand they finally understand. So, do you think this is o.k. or should I stop?>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:20:19 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: This is a new one! (njc) Walking in to a temp agency to fill out some paperwork, and hand over a Georgia license. ATTENDANT: [writes down GA DL ...] So, is Georgia considered part of South Carolina. ME: [uhh.....] No.. ATTENDANT: [looks at license again, studying it] Isn't Georgia part of South Carolina. ME: [uhh....] No.... ATTENDANT: [still trying to figure it out] Is Georgia part of Florida? What state is it in? ME: Atlanta, Georgia [pointing to the license which clearly says Georgia on it hoping that she will figure it out] She still didn't seem very convinced that Georgia is a state. I suppose I could have been more specific but I found it hard to believe she had never heard of Georgia. Kind of cracks me up really, thinking of the tendency of some people there to think that the sun rises and sets based on their every move. Victor NP: new demo just recorded and mixed - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: This is a new one! (njc) > ATTENDANT: [still trying to figure it out] Is Georgia part of Florida? > What state is it in? LOL, Victor ... well, at least the attendant had a notion of what states Georgia is BETWEEN! (She gets 1/2 a point for that.) I wonder whether said attendant would consider Maryland to be part of the South, or a Yankee state? (Hint: regardless of its nickname, the "Free State" is south of the Mason-Dixon line.) Otoh, you could've put on your best Eastern bloc accent and asked her for a map of the former USSR ... ; ) Lori in MD ~ Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #290 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?