From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #287 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, July 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 287 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: July 13 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: Show your team colors -njc ["Paul Castle" ] Wonderful Quote (NJC) ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: Wonderful Quote (NJC) [Mags N Brei ] Re: (njc and long) Note to Anne: What I've been doing for my summer vacation. [anne@sand] wilco (NJC) [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: Show your team colors -njc [Rick and Susan ] Re: aggressive enrichment NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Pics of Gregg & Livingston Taylor njc ["Kate Bennett" ] (njc) Maya, Cartman, and legal product... [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Pics of Gregg & Livingston Taylor njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Same sex marriages in Canada NJC [Rick and Susan ] Re: Same sex marriages in Canada NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 03:01:55 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: July 13 On July 13 the following item was published: 1975: "Joni: Just Miles Ahead" - Melody Maker (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/750713mm.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:21:42 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Show your team colors -njc Rick puzzled: >Soccer: You're kidding, right? 90+ minutes and the score is 0-0? Sounds like you've been watching my team - Oxford United - dazzling forward interplay laced with Beckhamesque long balls - only to be thwarted by Nureyev-style goal keeping and blind referees who somehow manage to 'let one in' at the other end every Saturday, forcing the London Road terraces into robust grammatically challenged chanting - "We was robbed! We was robbed! We was robbed!" . There's more to soccer than kicking a ball, you know. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:25:45 +0100 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Wonderful Quote (NJC) From an article about a Canadian company making high-performance sports cars:- "When you think Canadian, you think unarmed American with healthcare" Now I realise that belittles major cultural differences and the identity which, no doubt, Canadians have. But I, for one, howled with laughter when I read it. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 03:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Wonderful Quote (NJC) - --- Chris Marshall wrote: > From an article about a Canadian company making > high-performance sports cars:- > > "When you think Canadian, you think unarmed > American with healthcare" > > Now I realise that belittles major cultural differences > and the identity which, no doubt, Canadians have. But I, > for one, howled with laughter when I read it. > Good one Chris! Yes, funny in a bittersweet way, our healthcare leaves a lot to be desired. I could tell you some stories, but wont go there now ... perhaps under the moon next month! Mags, looking at five more days on the calendar. ;-) ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 05:23:25 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: (njc and long) Note to Anne: What I've been doing for my summer vacation. Walt said: > The irony is -- and I'm sure you know about this kind of > thing -- you have to be sick *enough* (numerically) to get on yet another > study, I KNOW!!!! I begged to get into the endostatin study a year ago, but I didn't meet the protocol. Fortunately, I got into this vaccine study. I just had my "midterm" CT scan yesterday. I'll have the PET scan on Tuesday. But I already pretty much know the tumor's gotten a bit bigger. Still, from what I know of the others in the study, this is really promising. > Yeah, I'm sorry I've been out of touch so much. Things are *so* sucky here, > financially, legally Reminds me of the movie title "Daddy's dying, who's got the will?" I've heard this type of story too often lately. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's so frustrating to have to deal with a life-threatening disease and worry about money. For me, if I weren't with Russ, I'd probably be homeless at this point. And that's after having earned a good salary for years... I wish I could help you. [If I won the lottery, I wouldn't be rich for long because I'd have fun giving it all away.] > Oh, and I've got the beginnings of a possible lyric! First one I've > attempted since i was 14. It's silly, but it *might* work. Tentative title: > Couch Potatuh (rhymes with procrastinatuh). I'm so looking forward to the > Fest, to meeting you and everyone in person! And to the songwriting workshop > -- speaking of which, what exactly is the workshop about -- working on > lyrics, melody or both? Great! Bring your lyric idea to the Fest! My workshop is about lyric writing. We'll go over thing like form and the tools available to the lyric writer. Then we'll write a song as a group. > Anne, how's your pain, your energy levels? I've been in more pain the last few weeks. Even though the pain isn't usually deilitating, it's frightening. (Makes me wonder what's going on...) My energy has been pretty good, though. > *My* biggest problem now is > fatigue, and i hope i can work out a schedule with naps so i can do > *everything possible* at the fest; in any case, there's much will here, so > there'll be a way. :-) Tell me about it! And the Fest is right after a vaccine, so that should make it interesting. > Love to Ann (and to all), and counting the minutes to the Fest, Love back at ya, Walt! And I'm really looking forward to the Fest weekend! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 09:50:00 -0400 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: wilco (NJC) hi all. have i missed any discussion about wilco's latest and greatest album, "yankee hotel foxtrot"? for the last two months i have listened to it nonstop. and i hadn't really been a fan of previous wilco things, because the country rock stuff doesn't always do it for me... but i'm in love with this record! it's swoony pop with jarring, dispirited lyrics, and some weird radiohead stuff thrown in...all sorts of musical things that i don't really know how to describe. plus i think jeff tweedy's voice is heartbreakingly perfect--sweet and shimmering and disgusted. "war on war" is one of the best pop songs i've heard in a long time. i urge people to check it out, if you haven't already. - --emily, who feels good about supporting the hometown team of WILCO but who will never, ever give up the nyknicks love! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:22:12 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Show your team colors -njc on 7/13/02 2:21 AM, Paul Castle at pdcmusic@freeuk.com wrote: >There's more to soccer than kicking a ball, you know. For the sake of humour I reduced my portrayal of several other sports to one pithy comment. I have indeed watched up to twenty full minutes of World Cup soccer and enjoyed it immensely. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:06:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: aggressive enrichment NJC LOL...i hear you! anne, great idea...we just got hooked on this show recently (our satellite finally gave us the network) & i love the characters! >Could we just take the entire cast of the West Wing and have them replace their 'real' counterparts? Instead of being on only one hour a week, they'd be on 24/7, so we could tune in, get great government and good tv at the same time! :-) lots of love Anne< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:20:33 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Pics of Gregg & Livingston Taylor njc wow, they sang together, what sweet harmonies that must have been...gregg's voice could pass for one of the taylor bros...beautiful shot of anastasia too! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:17:08 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: exremely rude link NJC Sorry if the lyrics at end of the mail offend anyone. Stop now if you feel uncomfortable with c-words, f-words etc. I think this song illustrates that context is all-important in deciding what (kind of ) language is appropriate to use with what target audience and in what circumstances. Whether anyone chooses to use these 'taboo' words is up to the individual and I would respect that, although I would also defend another person's right to use the same words. I would also hope that the 'offending' speaker would take note of the feelings of the others and the social situation and be conscious of the effects that these words might have on some people. When I was a teenage member of the working class in a heavily male-dominant society I never gave a second thought to using this kind of language in the public sphere but never at home, very rarely at school and very infrequently at work, depending on the job I had at that time. All-male workplaces obviously had a higher degree of 'bad language'. Now, many years later and after thinking about the matter for many years and especially after learning to swear in two new languages it has been very difficult to know when such language is inappropriate or not. It is curious to see my peers using these words in Spanish and Catalan amongst themselves and yet when I use the same words I get really strange looks as if I am not entitled to use this language for some reason. Having fewer English speaking friends here means I swear less in English too and it seems like years since I was able to let rip with an expletive. I can't say I miss it but it seems that I've lost a little of my power of expression, and that's a matter of regret, I suppose. The point about the song is that it is sung and written by a woman about a very emotive subject, sexual betrayal, and her language is as raw as her emotions. Would it be more acceptable to hear these words from the mouth of a man? Would Prince's Sexy MF have been accepted so easily if it had been by, say, Queen Latifah? Why does Minnie Ripperton change Joni's 'fuck your strangers' line to 'lay with strangers'? Would we feel any different about Joni (or Rikki Lee or Carly or whoever) if they used the words that slip so easily out of the mouth of male singers? I can still remember the shock of hearing Al Pacino calling Kevin Spacey a 'cunt' in Glengarry Glen Ross, although this was surpassed by Woody Allen in (I think) 'Deconstructing Harry' or maybe 'Small Time Crooks'. The title is unimportant. Are there any examples of women using the c-word in the movies? I don't remember ever hearing it. I think we are in the field of double standards again. Remember when Martina Navratilova made her remark about Magic Johnson; something like if a man has slept with 20,000 women he's a stud, while any woman with the same number would be the biggest slut on the planet. I'll stop here for the moment but to those who wish to use taboo words 'safely' I would say just this: other people have different degrees of sensitivity to these words, especially 'cunt'. Not because it is any 'harder' than any other word in itself but because its usage has become associated with the most extreme exclamations. It is unfortunate, but probably not coincidental, that the very worst thing you can call a man or a women refers to the sexual organs of a woman. I am all for reclaiming language and support Lori's stand on this. Personally I wouldn't have sent the fish joke to the list. Personally, I stress. Personally, I would be embarrassed to watch my parents see the clip, but in another context (crowded bar after half a dozen pints in an all-male group) I suspect I'd react differently. Cultural differences between class and gender communities are tricky enough within any single language culture/community but Debra's feelings about the matter show that in another, superficially similar, speech community the words carry a meaning that I am sure were not implicit in Colin's post. mike in Barcelona NP Ella Fitzgerald 'Insensatez' (How Insensitive) from Ella sings Jobim. Why'd ya do it? Marianne Faithful, Barry Reynolds et al When I stole a twig from our little nest and gave it to a bird with nothing in her beak. I had put my balls and my brains put into a vice and twisted around for a whole fucking week. Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd ya let that trash get a hold of your cock? Get stoned on my hash? Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd ya let her suck your cock? Aw, do me a favour. Don't put me in the dock. Why'd ya do it? She said. They're mine, all your tools. You've just tied me to the mast of the ship of fools. Why'd ya do it? She said. When you know it makes me sore. 'Cos she had cobwebs up her fanny and I believe in giving to the poor. Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd you spit on my snatch? Are we out of love now? Is this just a bad patch? Why'd ya do it? She said. Ain't nothing to laugh. You just tore all our kisses right in half. Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd you do what you did? Betray my little oyster for such a low fig. Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd you do what you did? You drove my ego to a really bad skid. Why'd ya do it? She said. After all we've said. Every time I see your dick I see her cunt in my bed The whole room was swirling. Her lips were still curling. Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd you do what you did? Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd you do what you did? Why'd ya do it? She said. Why'd ya do it? She said Why'd you do what you did? Oh big grey mother. I love you, forever. With your barb-wire pussy and your good and bad weather. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 14:18:22 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Maya, Cartman, and legal product... Azeem wrote at the end of his posting: <> My god, Azeem, you're right -- they do sound alike -- and has anyone ever seen both of them in the same room at the same time. Food for thought. Speaking of food and South Park, if anyone else has seen their most recent episode -- I wonder how most attorneys eat, given their oral product? (Apologies to jmdler attorneys -- this is just bile from my recent experiences...) Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 18:37:17 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pics of Gregg & Livingston Taylor njc In a message dated 7/13/02 1:10:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > wow, they sang together, what sweet harmonies that must have been...gregg's > voice could pass for one of the taylor bros...beautiful shot of anastasia > too! > and that it was Kate. Livingston is such a sweetheart. Those Taylor boys sure come from good stock ;) rose, tired after being on the beach all day and fishing. I caught a few sea robins! LMAO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:09:21 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Same sex marriages in Canada NJC This appeared in today's edition of The Globe and Mail: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20020713/wmariag /Front/homeBN/breakingnews Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:27:27 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Same sex marriages in Canada NJC Rick writes: << This appeared in today's edition of The Globe and Mail: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20020713/wmariag /Front/homeBN/breakingnews >> So I guess we can now add to the quotation Chris posted earlier today: "When you think Canadian, you think unarmed American with healthcare . . . but also with a more humane, rational and enlightened view of life." --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #287 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?