From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #284 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, July 11 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 284 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Library Links: July 11 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Re: aggressive accounting NJC ["kakki" ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] oops!Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Chris & Julie's 'Blue Tapestry' ["Paul Castle" ] Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Chris & Julie's 'Blue Tapestry' [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: extremely rude link NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) [colin ] Re: Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Eric the fish (was extremely rude link NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: extremely rude link NJC [colin ] Me'Shell Ndegeocello, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: extremely rude link NJC [dsk ] Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: aggressive accounting NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: aggressive accounting NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC [Vince Lavieri ] aggressive enrichment NJC [Vince Lavieri ] WAY more rude link (NJC) [Lori in MD ] Re: WAY more rude link (NJC) [Mags N Brei ] fish on the wall. njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: WAY more rude link (NJC) ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Show your team colors -njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Was: WAY more rude, Now: Gay - ever heard of it? (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.co] Re: Was: WAY more rude, Now: Gay - ever heard of it? (NJC) [Murphycopy@ao] Re: fish on the wall. njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: fish on the wall. njc [Lori in MD ] Re: Show your team colors -njc [Lori in MD ] Re: Show your team colors -njc ["Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC I can see you are obviously upset but I don't undertsand why. The joke has nothing at all to do with women. I have been back to listen because I thought maybe I had missed something but i hadn't. It is about this singing fish which has become a popular ornmanet here. The fish is battery operated and it sings when you turn it on, usually an Elvis song. It is having a pop at the people who buy this singing fish. I cannot see how it is expressing hatred toward women. We are friends and you know I wouldn't find hatred toward women acceptable(or to any other group). This is a very English joke, so perhaps the interpretation across the water is very different. I am sorry you have been offended but am at a loss as to why. dsk wrote: > Yeah, it is rude, and why, exactly, did you post it??? The word fuck > doesn't bother me, the hatred expressed toward women does, a lot. I > think it's a hostile act to send something like that here. I can't > imagine any woman on this list ever posting a fucking prick "joke". So > much for love, peace and harmony, eh? > > Debra Shea > > > colin wrote: > > > > http://b3ta.com/fish/ > > > > the above is an audio visual. it uses lots of rude words so if you are > > likely to be offended don't go there. > > > > these fish ornaments have become very popular for some unfathomable > > reason. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:56:37 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: aggressive accounting NJC O.K. my last post on this - I will put myself in enforced lock out from the list for awhile for droning on once again about politically-related issues ;-) Mike wrote: > I am concerned about the different effects and results pertaining to those with the > nous, or the smart advisors, or the insider connections to invest and > cash-in at the right time, and who are generally happy with the way the > system has worked for them, and those pertaining to the people in the > mutual funds and pensions who were not privy to insider deals and > therefore not able to cash in their chips before the casino roof fell in. Yes, yes - I think this has been a big matter of discussion among many recently, including some of my friends last weekend. One friend thought that insider trading should be allowed for everyone (!) Maybe his intention is in the right place but is inartfully expressed. I think businesses still deserve some proprietary protection for their, for example, confidential development of a new product and the right to release it on their own competitive and budgetary timing. Insider trading is a very serious offense in the U.S. People who engage in it are really playing with fire if they think they can get away with it. The SEC has had certain methods and systems for many years to detect a lot of it unbeknownst to the offender. Someone told me that the government is looking into changing regulations to further deter insider trading opportunities. > My question "is it fair?" was directed at this rich/poor, > insider/outsider divide, although it could arguably be applied to people > who gained a lot of money through the artificial buoyancy of the market > and who now, after suffering a little, or a lot, are saying that the > system needs changing. As I've written before we've had all the laws in place for many years and the system theorectically should work and has worked fairly well in the past. I think the problem has been more with those who were running the system in recent years and not doing their job of enforcing the law. > Perhaps not, but I was trying to make the point that not all > investigations are handled well and in the interests of justice. You say > that the SEC you worked with seemed to be 'hardcore' and I accept that, > but it is obvious that there are serious deficiencies in the financial > regulation system, apart from any further, hypothetical Bush-related > investigations. Again I don't think it is the system per se, but rather deficiencies in enforcement. Although I'm all for making the penalties harsher. > Here I think you treat me unfairly. My motivation is not to get a > different politically-based outcome to any hypothetical Bush > investigation, but to express my wish that investigations in general (be > they Police or SEC or whatever) be carried out on the basis of truth, > independence, justice and equity, and in public. Sorry Mike, I wasn't thinking of you personally when I made that statement. The subject of corporate/accounting/investment malfeasance always gets my blood going. It has been at the top of my pet outrages since Michael Milken's and Ivan Boesky's massive-scale thievery and damage to thousands of people's retirement funds in the 1980s. Their actions did not personally affect me or anyone I know financially but I don't think anything had ever appalled me so much. I truly thought they should have received a life term in prison. As you might guess one of my other pet outrages is brazen and unrelenting politically motivated lies and slander (whether it be a well-known politician or a friend or a co-worker) and I was thinking of those who purvey it when I made that statement. Not those who read it, discuss it, comment on it or even believe it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:23:02 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC Debra Shea wrote: > Yeah, it is rude, and why, exactly, did you post it??? The word fuck > doesn't bother me, the hatred expressed toward women does, a lot. >> Colin replied << This is a very English joke, so perhaps the interpretation across the water is very different. I am sorry you have been offended but am at a loss as to why. >> Dear people, This isn't about the F word, it seems to me, but about the C word. The word is used over here as a very coarse term of abuse, for men or women equally; my understanding is that in America, it's specifically directed (when it's used at all) at women. Seen in that light, the words of that bilious ditty are indeed misogynist. For what it's worth, I thought it was completely unfunny. Maybe that's the point... Azeem in London NP: Chris While and Julie Matthews - It's A Wonderful Life ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:34:14 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC dsk wrote: > Yeah, it is rude, and why, exactly, did you post it??? The word fuck > doesn't bother me, the hatred expressed toward women does, a lot. I > think it's a hostile act to send something like that here. I can't > imagine any woman on this list ever posting a fucking prick "joke". So > much for love, peace and harmony, eh? > > Debra Shea > > The more I have thought about this response, the baffled I have become. Baffled first of all that you interpreted this as 'hatred towards women'. No matter how many times I listen to it, I just cannot interpret it that way. Secondly, and most importantly, we have been friends a long time. we have met. We have shared at deep level with eachother. Yet it is apparent you do not think much of me or trust me. Not onl;y have you decided I was being hostile toward women by sending the link but your last sentence shows just how easily you can judge and dismiss a friend. It is hard enough to deal with those who are not friends who choose to warp everything i write, without also having to worry about friends doing the same thing. It didn't occur to me that a friend would attack in this way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:42:15 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC > Dear people, > > This isn't about the F word, it seems to me, but about the C word. The word > is used over here as a very coarse term of abuse, for men or women equally; > my understanding is that in America, it's specifically directed (when it's > used at all) at women. Seen in that light, the words of that bilious ditty > are indeed misogynist. If indeed it can be interpreted that only women would buy this ornament, I see your point. Dickhead or prick could equally have been used . They weren't. > > > For what it's worth, I thought it was completely unfunny. I wouldn't expect that everyone would find it funny. It is rather purile. I knew some people would like the swearing hence the way I headed the post. now it seems i am not only a mysogynist but against peace and love and harmony too. the simplest things turn nasty. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:46:43 +0100 From: colin Subject: oops!Re: extremely rude link NJC > I knew some people would like the swearing hence the way I headed the post. This should have read 'i knew some people would NOT like the swearing......' - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:44:59 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC In a message dated 11/07/02 10:36:09 GMT Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: << now it seems i am not only a mysogynist but against peace and love and harmony too. the simplest things turn nasty. >> Oh for God's sake Colin, read what I said again! I'm not saying you're being misogynist - I'm saying that it's a MISUNDERSTANDING! The words CAN be read as misogynist, with the understanding of the differing usage of one four-letter word. This is not your fault. OK? Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:59:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/07/02 10:36:09 GMT Daylight Time, colin@tantra-apso.com > writes: > > << now it seems i am not only a mysogynist but against peace and love and > harmony too. the simplest things turn nasty. >> > > Oh for God's sake Colin, read what I said again! I'm not saying you're being > misogynist - I'm saying that it's a MISUNDERSTANDING! Sorry Azeem I know you weren't. I was thinking of another post. > The words CAN be read > as misogynist, with the understanding of the differing usage of one > four-letter word. This is not your fault. OK? > > Azeem - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80,Creation 6 colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:08:23 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC > This isn't about the F word, it seems to me, but about the C word. The word > is used over here as a very coarse term of abuse, for men or women equally; In the area of East London where I lived for 20 years, or rather by those directly around me, the word was very common usage by young and old and men and women alike. It was not often used as an abusive term. If someone was really angry they would use the word 'nonce'. Believe it or not, friends would use hte word in sentences like, 'whatya doin C...', 'hey, c...have seen ya for ages...' etc etc I got used to it. I doubt in better areas of london it is used like that. I didn't ever quite get used to it but only because I viewed it as crude. I didn't get used to women old enough to be my mother or gandmother or men of the same age group, using it! I never heard of it as an expression of hatred toward women. Still, I would have preferred an explanation of why it offended Debra rather than an attack on my character by a friend. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:01:36 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Chris & Julie's 'Blue Tapestry' > Azeem in London > NP: Chris While and Julie Matthews - It's A Wonderful Life Have you seen their Blue Tapestry page at http://www.bluetapestry.fsnet.co.uk/Homex.html - - love the collage of Joni and Carole photos. The live album is due soon (will wing one, as soon as... - Bob) and another tour is in the planning. And here's their Road Diary? http://www.mattwhile.fsnet.co.uk/Blue_Tap_Diarx.html PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:24:28 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) What do people think of Janis Ian's article? http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html I'm with her all the way - but I'm open to persuasion. PaulC (head on the mend) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:39:53 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chris & Julie's 'Blue Tapestry' > The live album is due soon (will wing one, as soon as... - > Bob) Thanks muchly, Paul! Don't know what I'd do without good people like you! I had actually contacted them some time back and inquired about recordings, and they didn't have any covers material at that point. So I'll be on pins and needles (but I'm NOT crossing my eyes again!) waiting for the release... Know too that your Nick Drake/Sandy Denny compilation remains in constant rotation in my bedroom cd player. Thanks for that too! Bob NP: Paul Simon, "Further To Fly" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 8:10:32 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC > This is a very English joke, so perhaps the interpretation across the water > is very different. > I am sorry you have been offended but am at a loss as to why. > > I've seen those fish here and can't stand them either. The one I saw was singing Talking Heads "Take me to the River". I thought it was hilarious. I've seen enough British movies where language like that was used and understand there's something of a cultural barrier when it comes to certain words. But certainly, this joke should be viewed within that context and not misconstrued. My friend Alan Joyner wrote a song called "Kicking my Bitches" which is a complete satire written from the perspective of a pimp. Its an incredibly funny song and in my opinion, makes fun of pimps and makes them seem ridiculous. However, several times when I've heard this song performed, some people have been offended because they misunderstand and assume its supporting violence towards women when that's not the intention at all. What a wacky world we live in. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:51:11 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) I can only say that i received many tapes/cd's of people's work. . Of those I have liked, I have gone and bought the cd's. I have also downloaded songs that are just not available anywhere else. I have also done the same for other people-sent them cd-r's of music i think they may like, usually a collection of different somngs and different artits. I am sure they too would go and buy the cd if they liked it. Paul Castle wrote: > What do people think of Janis Ian's article? > > http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:47:07 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Janis Ian's Internet Debacle (NJC) > What do people think of Janis Ian's article? I think it's right on as well, Paul. It's long but a compelling read, and from one who knows the business for 35+ years I lend it much credibility. An issue she doesn't even touch on is the death of WebRadio, which is REALLY stupid on the parts of the music biz. I mean, here are songs that aren't even downloads, but rather are streams, and a great way to be exposed to new music. And soon they'll go away because none of them will be able to afford the performance royalties demanded of them, royalties that even the RADIO doesn't have to pay! Done in by their own greed & stupidity imo. In their defense, I do not support copying entire CD's worth of commercially available material, but to try and squash every opportunity we have to explore new artists is just killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Bob NP: Brian Blade, "Steadfast" (featuring a GREAT Joni vocal!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:14:43 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Eric the fish (was extremely rude link NJC) Thanks for the perspective, Victor. I haven't been to see the flapping fishes because they scare the hell out of lil' ol' me (thanks Rose - you're a joy). I haven't heard Alan Joyner but Eric Schwartz, who I travelled across Canada with on the Folktrain, has an album called "Pleading the first: Songs my mother hates" which, I suppose, you either get or don't get. I suspect my 81 year old mother would wonder why I laugh so hard at his song 'Stoned People', particularly the line about his cat! (and down to the V and up to the I) listen @ http://www.mp3.com/ericschwatz Breezy sunshine here in London PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:35:50 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Gregg Cagno & Livingston Taylor today! njc Reminder for you NJ & PA folks: Gregg will open for Livingston Taylor (James' bro) today July 11th 6PM at Deer Path Park in Lebanon, NJ and it's free! 1020 State Rt. 31 I'll be there rose ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:00:00 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC Well, Colin, someone had just written off-list to me and commented what a bore...that there was no controversy on the list right now. So this is your way of shaking things up a bit? ;-) I for one thought it was amusing. As a gag gift last year I bought this fish for a friend of mine on his birthday. (I picked it up at a discount store for a couple of bucks) When I gave it to him I had this very serious expression on my face, wanting him to think I was very serious about this gift. You know kind of like, God I hope you like this....I put so much thought and time into it..... It is not like you did not warn us. I was not offended because I know from whence it came. But that is me and if someone else is offended.... then they are offended. >It is having a pop at the people who buy this singing fish. I was musing last night after viewing the fish......I wonder if anyone on the list has ever bought this...liking it because it is cute, not seeing that is so,so tacky. (I know, I had a lot of time on my hands last night) Now back to the cotton candy ice cream. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:42:27 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC colin wrote: > > > This isn't about the F word, it seems to me, but about the C word. The word > > is used over here as a very coarse term of abuse, for men or women equally; > > I never heard of it as an expression of hatred toward women. Ok, ok, ok. Next time my buttons are pushed so fiercely I'll look up words in my British to English slang dictionary that needs to be, but isn't, close at hand at all times. So, I've ALWAYS heard the phrase "fucking cunt" used here by men toward women as an expression of extreme disdain, which to me is a clear sign of hatred (or maybe fear, I don't know, whatever it is it doesn't feel good to hear it), so it did seem like a hostile act for you to post it. Not funny at all, for me. I *did* ask why you posted it, yes? and now I know. You were focused on the fish and I heard only the words. Strange, huh? A surprise for us both. Anyway, can't friends sometimes be surprised and confused and annoyed, even angered, by one another's actions? I hope so, imperfect being that I am, well, that we all are really, but I'll just speak for myself on this one. Debra Shea, an obviously stressed-out overzealous NYC advocate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:53:00 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC > Anyway, can't friends sometimes be surprised and confused > and annoyed, > even angered, by one another's actions? Anyone who's ever had a roommate can answer THAT one! :~) I think it's easier to get pissed (meaning angry, not drunk) when it's a friend, as if there's a betrayal factor involved. One of my fave Joni lines is from her masterpiece Jericho: "Everybody knows just how hard it is to make & keep a friend" Bob, who bought a safe and put it in his apt. kitchen when a roommate kept eating his food. NP: Sleater-Kinney, "Jenny" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:40:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC > so it did seem like a hostile act for you to post it. why, exactly, did you post it??? ...... the hatred expressed toward women does, a lot. I think it's a hostile act to send something like that here. ........ So much for love, peace and harmony, eh? I reposted the bits about your original post that stunned me and made me feel humiliated. > > Not funny at all, for me. I *did* ask why you posted it, yes? and now I > know. > > Anyway, can't friends sometimes be surprised and confused and annoyed, > even angered, by one another's actions? of course firends will piss each other off at times. However, that is not how I read your post. This is what i got: You were offended and as a result you accused me of being hotsile, expressing hatred towards women and in the final sentence of being a hypocrite because by inference, in send ing that link, you came to the conclusion that I lie about my desire for love peace and harmony. Now I know I am not a mysogynist and am not a hypocrite so that part didn't bother me. what bothered me was that a friend with whom I have shared deeply over a long period of time should be so nasty, that you thought so little of me, and said all this in public leaving me feeling like a fool for having trusted you and showing eveyone what an idiot I was in my choice of friends. I would NEVER have assumed those things about you. I don't know that I am explainign myself very well. Of course we all make mistakes and jump to conscluions but your outburst showed me that you just don't know me at all and didn't trust me. My only reason for posting the link was because I thought some people would find it funny. I knew some people would not like the language hence my heading. It did not occur to me at all that I would get such a kick in the gut for doing so or that it would be interpreted the way you did. Other people have sent funny links, some of which I have found funny and others I have found offensive(like the anti arab ones) but I haven't trashed anyone for it. You asked me in another mail, what was my motive for sending it. i have gievn that already. the fact you asked it, tells me even more how little you trust me. The damn thing was a joke, nothing more or less, and to be frank I am fed up with self righteous people hauling me over the coals for what in the end is their problem.(like when i asked a perfectly legitmate question to someone else regarding adoption). It really is getting very tiresome. I have dreaded opening my mail for quite some time and have been telling myself oh don't be silly, grow up.don't be paranoid, how can that be misconstrued or not everyone who disagrees with you is going to tell you to go get therapy or that you are a freak or write people telling them how wicked i am. Yet time and time again I find I am not wrong. I have been toying with the idea of unsubbing. I have been here 5 years and yes to leave it and move on wouyld be very hard. I did unsub after the adoption slap but it iddn't last. Now I find I am in a bind. Leave and lose the positive stuff or stay and constantly get slagged off, have my character assinated and basically put up with downright nastiness. I am not good at ignoring it and am nowhere near as thick skinned as I ought to be. Sometimes I feel so parnoid I actually think that that is precisely the aim-to get me off list by making it as difficult as posible for me. Or just lurk-and what would be the point of that? Trust is a vital part of any friendship, it isn't something to be taken lightly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:23:04 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Me'Shell Ndegeocello, NJC After reading about MeShell Ndegeocello in today's JMDL, I decided to check her out at Amazon. "Bitter" does indeed sound interesting, so I bought it. What a contrast with her prior work which is, forgive me if the "label" is incorrect, funky. The "Bitter" audio samples are much more melodic to my ears. We'll see/hear......... This is what I love about JMDL: finding out new music through other listers' passions. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:54:02 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: extremely rude link NJC colin wrote: > > My only reason for posting the link was because I thought some people would find it > funny. I knew some people would not like the language hence my heading. It did not > occur to me at all that I would get such a kick in the gut for doing so or that it > would be interpreted the way you did. And it looks like you will spend no time at all considering my explanations, except to take things in the most negative light, with you as completely innocent victim. That's too bad. I can understand your reaction and intense feelings and all that you've written here, but I'm not going to accept it as being ONLY about me and my misdeeds. I would have expected you'd be the one most likely to understand where my fierce reaction came from, but apparently not, or not at the moment anyway. We'll have to continue our conversation in private, Colin. I'm not saying anything more about it on-list. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:02:48 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > > Bob, who bought a safe and put it in his apt. kitchen when a roommate kept eating his food. > > So are you starving the wife or the kid? Just wondering... "Hey, if you're so hungry, go find yourself an old BSN covers album to eat." (the Rev) Vince NPIMH, simultaneously: "Food, Glorious Food" from Oliver! and Pink Floyd informing us that you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:18:55 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC Naw, I don't have that safe anymore. But it came in handy back in college; it would hold a six-pack & some coldcuts (Probably were Winn Dixie coldcuts, actually). More for a joke than anything else, but it WAS nice to know I could have a beer if I wanted one without a roommate having purloined it. Bob NP: Smashing Pumpkins, "tonight tonight" PS: You should know that you can't starve a teenage boy! As much as I buy & fix, he'll eat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:39:30 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: aggressive accounting NJC kakki wrote: > Randy asked: > > > You mean, if our president has a criminal past, why should we > > make an issue of it? > > You are assuming or wishing he has a criminal past as your premise out the > gate. If indeed he did, he never ever would have gotten as far as he has in > any venture of his life. You know that his political opponents would have > found it out and screamed it from the rooftops years ago. Actually, he does have a criminal past-his drunk driving record which was covered up by his influential dad. > I guess this ties > in because he political opponents were the ones who were ranting about the > deal with Harken way back when. There was a full and extensive > investigation and he was found to have committed no wrongdoing, much less > anything criminal. I actually looked around quite a bot to find a current > news article which could explain the history of this Harken issue > objectively and without political bias and found one at National Review > online thank you for sending this. I will try to look at it when I get a chance, but am insanely busy for the immediate future. > > the link http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york071002.asp > Of course it is not some aberration - such situations have been going on in > one form or another since the beginning of time. Greed is timeless. What > is preposterous is to somehow try to link it to Bush. It's not preposterous to link political favors to Cheney or Bush's cohorts-it's been in the mainstream news about how they have been in on discussions about national energy policy. Campaign support and political favors. Not to mention Cheney's employment by both Halburton and Enron. And of course, here in California, it's been discovered that Enron manufactured the electricity crisis to double their rates. Slightly off topic, but it's not a stretch to suspect collusion in Sacramento. > It was laughable that the political opponents who rushed > to try to slime Bush with Enron were suddenly silent after it was revealed > through public records that they themselves owned thousands of dollars in > Enron stock and had received hundreds of thousands of dollars in political > contributions from Enron. The gall and venality of those who try to foist > this junk on public opinion is so transparent to most people. These are the > same opponents who gave Clinton a pass on everything, even while he was > brazenly violating several laws right in front of our faces. Setting aside > the perjury offense let's take one example of many - Clinton and Gore openly > getting millions of dollars in campaign money from Chinese government > representatives (in exchange for what?). Not sure who you are referring as being Bush opponents and owning Enron stock. If it was other politicians, that's no surprise, they act like a pack of dogs and will gladly devour their own if their image is on the line. Regarding Clinton, Kakki, you find it easy to recognize his criminality, but scoff at the possibility when it comes to Dubya. I always felt that if Clinton was committing illegal acts, it should have been fully investigated instead of spending millions in a partisan attack on his marital indiscretions. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:44:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: aggressive accounting NJC While research roots may reach into the 1970's, it was, of course Reagan who aggressively lobbied for this multimillion dollar boondoggle. And even though Bush is busy pushing the plan now, it was Clinton who took it out of mothballs and revived it. In the debates Gore was in favor of it, too. RR kakki wrote: > Just as an aside - significant ongoing funding for the missile defense > shield goes back to at least the 1970s and our government and the then > Soviet Union were simultaneously working on their respective versions of it > since at least that time. As far back as the early 1980s American and > Russian astrophysicists were actually sharing a bit of technological > information in the area of missile shields back and forth through academic > and scientific conferences. Ever since I learned of this (fairly first > hand) I've just laughed and shaken my head when Russian representatives > protest loudly against *our* developing one and not laughed but just shaken > my head that most Americans are not aware of these facts. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:48:28 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Bob "Mr. Bumble" of SC: NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Naw, I don't have that safe anymore. Too bad; I thought it would make a wonderful visual aid for your Sunday School class when you did the story of the feeding of the 5,000. > But it came in handy back in college; it would hold a six-pack & some coldcuts Now that 6 pack would get more high schoolers out to your Sunday School class, but then, that is not the Methodist way, is it? :-) Now if you had some fine wine, you could all be Epsicopalians! :-) > PS: You should know that you can't starve a teenage boy! As much as I buy & fix, he'll eat. I once went shopping and bought, in the middle of night, after the kids were in bed, a box of chocolate covered Oreos and hid them in a far, far corner of a closet behind a bunch of bags. The next day at noon I told my 15 year old and 11 year old that I had a special treat for them for dessert, and the 15 year old got this really guilty look on his face. Sure enough, every cookie was gone! Gage hasn't reached that stage yet, he is only 7. He still lets me get the food out of the grocery bag before he eats it. And at White Sox games, he only wants a new food item (which he eats and consumes) every other inning. Last year an order of nachoes lasted 3 innings. Now I am lucky it it lasts 6 batters. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:17:26 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: aggressive enrichment NJC Randy, while you were writing your posts, NPR had a fascinating little story by Don Gagne (spelling?) of how G W borrowed $800,000 to buy a share of the Texas Rangers, then paid that off with all the stock options that he got in a loan he got from an oil company that bought his failing oil business, and then he sold his Rangers shares for $16,000,000. Kind of makes Hillary's little pork futures deal kind of pathethic, huh? But we know that G W never did wrong because the SEC, when G W H Bush was vice president and president, said so. Just because G W's story has changed just this week several times on why those SEC filings were late... My question: if the feds really go after these powerful stock options and accounting criminals, where are we going to get a new president and vice president? I have no guesses on who the Dems will run in 2004, but I suspect strongly that John McCain has been handed his 2004 issues for the GOP primaries on a silver platter. And I also think G W's last futures option is now history. Outside of Reagan the Republicans have not been able to re-elect a president since Nixon and they won't in 2004 either. Thanks for your post. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori in MD Subject: WAY more rude link (NJC) Since we're now up in arms about rudeness and cunts and such (I'm personally all for "taking back" the word cunt, as many of us have taken back words like dyke, queer, etc. -- afterall, you only give a word power if you react to it negatively), if you want to see a TRULY rude link that rings true as well, email me privately. (It's too rude to post here, NJC tag or not.) Caution: the link will take you to a site containing gay content intended to insult pedophilic priests. Lori in MD ~ New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:46:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: WAY more rude link (NJC) - --- Lori in MD wrote: > << personally all for "taking back" the word cunt, as many of us have > taken back words like dyke, queer, etc. -- afterall, you only give a > word power if you react to it negatively)>>> Hey Lori, have you seen the book entitled cunt? wonderful little book which delves into exactly what you are talking about. it is quite an eye opener. I have it somewhere or perhaps it has been lost in the shuffle of the move....anyway, your post reminded me of that. np: Au Nord Du Notre Vie by Cano featuring the amazing voice of Rachel Paiement... ...a fabulous northern Canadian band which I havent heard in a very long time...I highly recommend this...as well as the other CD I purchased this evening...Harmonium, Les Cinq Saisons. anyone else heard either of these?? so good to hear francais!!! i will miss that. ;-) la Mags > > ~ ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:58:43 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: fish on the wall. njc Is this the fish that hangs on a piece of faux wood and sings tunes? If so, they were quite the rage around here when they came out, not only well received but prized. Believe it or not. Yes, my dear friends, this is central texas. heheheh Mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:05:16 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: WAY more rude link (NJC) That word. It reeks. I only use it to show complete disdain for some who I deem deserve it. Of course different words have different meanings to different people. I have found that some people of color will use the n word with one another but are offended when used by those outside of their world. I can understand that as I have no problem with a homosexual friend calling me a faggot but will gladly punch anyone else that says it, to me. "don't call me a faggot, not unless you are a friend." - Joe Jackson. Is this c word that way for lesbians? Not only is it distasteful to me ( I say with a funny and sideways grin), it scares me. EEEEK!!!!!!! Such are the thoughts of this fairy. Could be one of the reasons I don't go there. hehhe Mack > > > << > personally all for "taking back" the word cunt, as many of us have > > taken back words like dyke, queer, etc. -- afterall, you only give a > > word power if you react to it negatively)>>> > > Hey Lori, > have you seen the book entitled cunt? wonderful little book which > delves into exactly what you are talking about. it is quite an eye > opener. I have it somewhere or perhaps it has been lost in the shuffle > of the move....anyway, your post reminded me of that. > > np: Au Nord Du Notre Vie by Cano featuring the amazing voice of Rachel > Paiement... > ...a fabulous northern Canadian band which I havent heard in a very > long time...I highly recommend this...as well as the other CD I > purchased this evening...Harmonium, Les Cinq Saisons. > > anyone else heard either of these?? > > so good to hear francais!!! i will miss that. ;-) > > > la Mags > > > > > ~ > > > > ===== > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:08:55 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: WAY more rude link (NJC) Had a good friend years ago. Her name was Dawn. She had a c- jar that she had handpainted. She put different items in it. Not only was it quite unique but anatomically correct. Never quite knew what to think of it. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:17:27 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Show your team colors -njc So we know Vince loves his White Sox, and I adore my Red Wings, but what about the rest of you? I know Paz loves the Saints (is that an oxymoron?!?!) and I'll bet that Kakki is a huge Laker fan. Alison, is there a Salt Lake Mormon wresting team that you root for? Maybe a hunk on the BYU swim team?!?! Put me in coach, I'm ready to play, today....tell us about your favorite teams. We know that Joni might have had a little money riding on the Maple Leafs, but was that before we stole Cujo???????? Sue n.p. Potshot, "We are Potshot" _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:20:05 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Show your team colors -njc Used to be mega Cowboy fan but after they won three supers, it all seemed kind of pointless. Trying to become a Maverick fan but can't seem to quite find it that important either. Still a major Longhorn fan in any sport. Can't stand baseball. Dull, dull, dull, to me. Can't find any interest in soccer or hockey either. mack > So we know Vince loves his White Sox, and I adore my Red Wings, but what about the rest of you? I know Paz loves the Saints (is that an oxymoron?!?!) and I'll bet that Kakki is a huge Laker fan. Alison, is there a Salt Lake Mormon wresting team that you root for? Maybe a hunk on the BYU swim team?!?! > > Put me in coach, I'm ready to play, today....tell us about your favorite teams. > > We know that Joni might have had a little money riding on the Maple Leafs, but was that before we stole Cujo???????? > > Sue > > n.p. Potshot, "We are Potshot" > > > _____________________________________________________ > Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads > and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. > http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:16:24 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: aggressive enrichment NJC Yes, I heard about that one, too. But you know, Vince, there's always a logical explanation, besides it was on the left end of dial. As to the dems, what about Gephardt? He seems like he has his eyes on the prize. To me it's that Catch-22. You would have to be crazy to want to be president, therefore the president is always crazy. For power, glory, or they just want to get their hands on the furniture! Peace RR Vince Lavieri wrote: > Randy, > > while you were writing your posts, NPR had a fascinating little story by > Don Gagne (spelling?) of how G W borrowed $800,000 to buy a share of the > Texas Rangers, then paid that off with all the stock options that he got > in a loan he got from an oil company that bought his failing oil > business, and then he sold his Rangers shares for $16,000,000. Kind of > makes Hillary's little pork futures deal kind of pathethic, huh? > > I have no guesses on who the Dems will run in 2004, but I suspect > strongly that John McCain has been handed his 2004 issues for the GOP > primaries on a silver platter. And I also think G W's last futures > option is now history. Outside of Reagan the Republicans have not been > able to re-elect a president since Nixon and they won't in 2004 either. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:22:42 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Was: WAY more rude, Now: Gay - ever heard of it? (NJC) Mack writes: << That word. It reeks. I only use it to show complete disdain for some who I deem deserve it. Of course different words have different meanings to different people. >> This is another example of how Britain and the US are two countries divided by a common language. I read a lot of novels by British and Irish writers and they tend to use the c word the way American writers use "the" or "and." It has neither the shock value nor the horrific misogynistic overtones that it has in the US. And Lori writes: << I'm personally all for "taking back" the word cunt, as many of us have taken back words like dyke, queer, etc. -- afterall, you only give a word power if you react to it negatively >> I agree. I think the first time I was exposed to this idea was in the book "Soul on Ice," which was assigned reading in high school. Later on, by the late '80s/early '90s, "queer" and "faggot" were everywhere. And Mack adds: << I have found that some people of color will use the n word with one another but are offended when used by those outside of their world. I can understand that as I have no problem with a homosexual friend calling me a faggot but will gladly punch anyone else that says it, to me. >> So true. I am very comfortable with the f and q words, but the n and c words make me cringe. One of my best friends is an African-American woman who was called both names by a former friend of hers during an angry meltdown last spring. (He is white, an architect and was redesigning her just-purchased 300 year-old house.) They had had a 30-year friendship, but that one outburst killed it. She is probably the kindest human being I know and a very forgiving person, but for her, like anyone else, some lines just don't get crossed. She gave him the walking papers he so richly deserved. (Which thrilled her husband and me because we could never stand the cruel and arrogant bastard!) On a different but somewhat related topic, I usually get a kick out of Michael Musto's Village Voice column. This week's column had the following bit about Rosie O'Donnell and her son Parker: ""Rosie said that when her son Parker was asked by friends why he has two mommies, he unflinchingly replied, "Gaybever heard of it?" How cool is that kid? (The rest of the column is at http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0228/musto.php) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:27:21 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Was: WAY more rude, Now: Gay - ever heard of it? (NJC) Cutting and pasting from a Web page, I accidently sent the following: << ""Rosie said that when her son Parker was asked by friends why he has two mommies, he unflinchingly replied, "Gaybever heard of it?" >> It should read: << "Rosie said that when her son Parker was asked by friends why he has two mommies, he unflinchingly replied, "Gay - ever heard of it?" >> --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:29:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: fish on the wall. njc Subject: Re: fish on the wall. njc > So we're trashier! ;~) Hmmph. All in all it's just a ... nother fish on the wall. ; ) Lori ~ New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:52:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: Show your team colors -njc This could be fun ... thanks, Suze! Football: Saints, for no other reason than because I love the city of New Orleans! (Regardless of having lived in Texas for 12 years, never ever ever ever EVER those arrogant Cowboys. Ugh. Yuck. Ick!) Baseball: Yankees, Indians, Pirates, in that order Basketball - Pro: Spurs, Kings, 76ers and ... Mystics! (when I remember to watch) Basketball - College: University of Maryland Terrapins Hockey: nobody, can't stand it, reminds me of NASCAR, which is another thing I can't stand Soccer: all the women's teams, but I especially love Mia Hamm! Lori ~ New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited access ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:29:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Show your team colors -njc Go Braves! I'm living in Carolina but I'm still a big Braves fan with a six foot wooden tomahawk to boot...and thrilled that the Braves have the best record in baseball right now. There's a Rockies farm team here, the Touristers but I haven't been to any of their games yet. I haven't been able to watch much sports lately as my television doesn't pick up anything but maybe that's a good thing. Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #284 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?