From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, July 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 276 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: July 4 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Today's Library Links: July 4 [ljirvin@adelphia.net] Rosemary Clooney -njc [Vince Lavieri ] apropos of nothing NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Rosemary Clooney -njc ["kakki" ] Re: under [blank] NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Comments [Catherine McKay ] Re: Rosemary Clooney -njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: under [blank] NJC [Catherine McKay ] Blank, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Blank, NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Blank, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC - Julia Fordham review [Patti Haskins ] Re: Blank, NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Blank, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: Blank, NJC ["kakki" ] Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC [FMYFL@ao] Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC [SCJoniGuy@ao] Joni & Eminem [Vince Lavieri ] RE: "Clouds" as a Coaster: A Cry for Inspiration ["Heather" ] Re: Joni & Eminem [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 03:09:26 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today in History: July 4 On July 4 in history: 1967: Joni performs at the Bitter End in New York City. Don Everly: "I remember meeting Jimi Hendrix one night at The Scene, Steve Paul's club. I was working The Latin Quarter at the time and had never been to Greenwich Village before so Steve and Jimi took me on a tour. We went to The Bitter End, and there was Joni Mitchell, whom I had already fallen in love with via records. My life changed. I wanted to play these places too." 1968: Joni performs tonight at the Bitter End in New York City. Also on the bill are Bunky & Jake and David Steinberg. [Source: New York Times; July 5, 1968] 1983: Joni performs at the Pineknob in Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 03:09:26 -0400 From: ljirvin@adelphia.net Subject: Today's Library Links: July 4 On July 4 the following items were published: 1997: "Joni Mitchell merits local recognition" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (Opinion) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/970704ssp.cfm 2000: "Joni Mitchell" - Jam! Website (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000704j.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 05:12:13 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Rosemary Clooney -njc I was out of town and thus as not here to comment that I always liked Rosemary Clooney, have one of her cds (wanted "Seems Like Old Times") and she was a person affected by the 60s as any of us, and came back strong for the latter part of her career. I hope she found personal happiness - she deserved it, she was a good person. (the Rev) Vince http://www.rosemaryclooney.com/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 05:21:45 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: apropos of nothing NJC I saw that Rosemary Clooney sang Little Girl Blues (Lorenzo and Hart) and knowng of course the fefinitve version was sung by Janis Joplin, I compared the lyrics, and it is just my modd to post the lyrice of Janis' version: Sit there, hmm, count your fingers. What else, what else is there to do? Oh and I know how you feel, I know you feel that youmre through. Oh wah wah ah sit there, hmm, count, Ah, count your little fingers, My unhappy oh little girl, little girl blue, yeah. Oh sit there, oh count those raindrops Oh, feel mem falling down, oh honey all around you. Honey donmt you know itms time, I feel itms time, Somebody told you kcause you got to know That all you ever gonna have to count on Or gonna wanna lean on Itms gonna feel just like those raindrops do When theymre falling down, honey, all around you. Oh, I know youmre unhappy. Oh sit there, ah go on, go on And count your fingers. I donmt know what else, what else Honey have you got to do. And I know how you feel, And I know you ainmt got no reason to go on And I know you feel that you must be through. Oh honey, go on and sit right back down, I want you to count, oh count your fingers, Ah my unhappy, my unlucky And my little, oh, girl blue. I know youmre unhappy, Ooh ah, honey I know, Baby I know just how you feel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 02:44:01 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Rosemary Clooney -njc She was a very good person. She had some very rough years but always seemed to carry through her troubles with grace and sweetness and she was greatly loved by her children and many who knew her. I found an obituary from The Telegraph which you might find interesting here http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/07/01/db0101.xml&s Sheet=/opinion/2002/07/01/ixopright.html > I was out of town and thus as not here to comment that I always liked > Rosemary Clooney, have one of her cds (wanted "Seems Like Old Times") > and she was a person affected by the 60s as any of us, and came back > strong for the latter part of her career. I hope she found personal > happiness - she deserved it, she was a good person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 06:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: under [blank] NJC - --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > My sister and I are always complaining about the > "get > an education" stuff. Well, I majored in French. Big > fat > lot of good that did me - although I was lucky for a > little while (right place, right time, right job, > right > company...) Since I got laid off from there a few > years > ago, I've been miserable at work (well until I got > diagnosed, then I've been on disability - which I'm > SO > grateful to have. Sometimes things happen for a reason (so *they* say). I majored in French too, but it does a lot more good in Canada, especially since everyone got onto the bilingual bandwagon in a big way which was right around the time I graduated from university so I got a job right away. > Russ started out as a plumber, is now a plumbing > inspector and has all the perks that go along with a > city job. (Not long hours, pension, security, > etc...) > So, which one of us has it better in the long run? > He > does... My Dad always encouraged us to "get an education" too. He wanted us all to become "professionals", like teachers, nurses, etc. so we'd always have something to fall back on. He discouraged us from taking anything but academics and we were all kind of wimpy kids so, even though I wanted to take art and music, I ended up taking things like Latin. I also studied lots of languages and I'm happy for that. And I learned to play guitar on my own, but always wanted to learn classical guitar, so about 8 years ago, I started taking lessons (still am.) But the plumbers do make a lot more money than I do - I've had to hire one here and there to fix stuff in my house and I just about had a cardiac the first time I had one in to fix something - yeesh! ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Comments - --- colin wrote: > No one wants to hear your opinions. They only want > people who agree with > them. People with differing opinions, or who think > outside the box, are > labelled as mad or bad. Ironically, of course, they are always telling us to think outside the box. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:05:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Rosemary Clooney -njc - --- Vince Lavieri wrote: > I was out of town and thus as not here to comment > that I always liked > Rosemary Clooney, have one of her cds (wanted "Seems > Like Old Times") > and she was a person affected by the 60s as any of > us, and came back > strong for the latter part of her career. I hope she > found personal > happiness - she deserved it, she was a good person. > I remember her on "St Elsewhere", playing an old lady with Alzheimers, or something like that, constantly breaking into song. I loved that particular show - it's the one I remember most of all of them. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:06:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: under [blank] NJC - --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Oh, dear me, Catherine. Let me explain it to you. > Here, sit down. If > there *ARE* 30 percent who are truly excellent and > 1/3 of them are passed > over for the excellence raise, they will simply get > angry and LEAVE. This > will restore the natural order of things: the 20% > figure is self-achieving. D'oh! Shoulda t'oughta dat! (slapping self upside the head) ______________________________________________________________________ Post your ad for free now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:22:25 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Blank, NJC A couple months ago, I commented on Helen's post regarding immigration to the US. In a nutshell, I exposed the "american dream" as a hoax meant for the working class to continue enduring the hardships they're going through. Strangely enough, nobody seemed to agree at the time. I received the following comment from Kakki (nothing personal here, I usually agree with her): > Nevertheless, I am really dismayed that you would have such views of the US, > views based on stereotypes, Hollywood fiction and other motivations which > have also been propagated and repeated enough times where people start to > believe them as true. I could provide you with information which would > refute many of the false or unfactual accusations against the US but it > would take up too much bandwidth. I don't know what your experiences were > like in the U.S. but they are not the experience of most Americans. > > Kakki > Well, to comment on the current "blank" thread, it seems reality surpasses fiction, doesn't it? My advice: listen to DED and vent your anger. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:45:00 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Blank, NJC <> I don't think so, Laurent...I personally feel like the "American Dream" is alive & well. I don't have to look any further than the growing Hispanic population in my city (a good thing, and recently profiled in Rolling Stone). What we were commenting on, and what HAS changed over time relative to the American Dream, is the relationship we have with our jobs. Just one generation ago, it was not uncommon for a person to start a career with one company, and retire from the same company. That won't be the case with many of us, if any, nor for our children. Job migration is common, whether employees change on their own for whatever reason, or whether companies go under or have layoffs. So there is little (or reduced) loyalty between company & employee, and a little resentment for that loss of security. Maybe there is a greater sense of security in smaller "family-owned" businesses. Still, the corporation I work for, while I pick at its faults, is very good to me and a great place to work. You won't hear me poo-poo the concept of the American Dream...I graduated from college with a generic degree in business management, had a willingness to work hard, and now I'm living very comfortably with enough money to spend on that rare recording of Venezuelan Aborigines chanting "Both Sides Now". :~) I love this country...BUT I don't put us ahead of anyone, or think that God blesses America more so than any other. Hope & faith are enduring, and life is good. Bob NP: Gomez, "Get Miles" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:55:28 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Blank, NJC I don't think so, Laurent...I personally feel like the "American Dream" is alive & well. Bob Hi Bob, The key word I picked up on in you email is: "personally". I'm very happy for you that you are living the american dream. Of course you're not alone. I was reflecting on several posts which in essence said they personally did not live that dream. And they're not alone either. Since everybody's experience is different, if we are to draw any significant conclusion to this topic, perhaps we should look at STATISTICS of social mobility and go from there. On the loyalty between companies and employees, I read years ago that even in Japan that concept is no longer true. From what I see here, it's no american phenomenon. It gets very difficult after 40 to find a job! So what the goverment does in France is give everybody a minimum income of $350/month. This is in my opinion to avoid social unrest. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 10:24:13 -0500 From: Patti Haskins Subject: NJC - Julia Fordham review Hi all, Patti in Dallas here temporarily out of lurkdom. I saw Julia's Dallas show Tuesday night, front row no less. What a treat. Just an amazing voice and funny personality. I loved the show. And my husband was pleased to see that her guitar player, Mark Goldenberg, was playing a new Godin Multiac Jazz guitar. My husband reps the Godin/Seagull line in Texas. We talked to Mark and Robin, the road manager, after the show. They were really nice guys. Julia was signing autographs for the entire audience it seemed. There was always a line and she was always smiling. Here's the link to the Dallas Morning News review: http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/overnight/stories/070402dnovejulia.ceb24.html Patti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:42:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Blank, NJC <> And I can appreciate that...I will also add that the ever-elusive "happiness" doesn't always come from a good job, a good marriage, a good family, two chickens in every pot, etc. If someone is unhappy & they blame their job or whatever, then they're not going to go very far in improving their HQ (happiness quotient) imo. After all, Jefferson said that we were promised 'the PURSUIT of happiness', not happiness itself. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "The Fall of Troy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:15:10 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: Blank, NJC And I can appreciate that...I will also add that the ever-elusive "happiness" doesn't always come from a good job, a good marriage, a good family, two chickens in every pot, etc. If someone is unhappy & they blame their job or whatever, then they're not going to go very far in improving their HQ (happiness quotient) imo. After all, Jefferson said that we were promised 'the PURSUIT of happiness', not happiness itself. Bob That's very true. I happened to have known a young handsome intelligent healthy billionaire in Beverly Hills (whom I turned on to Joni, incidentally; he's the guy who called me from the restaurant to tell me she was eating there). Anyway, he wasn't happy. I couldn't say why but he clearly wasn't. Conversely, I have a good friend (who's coming up to see Bob Weir this weekend) who chose to live in the wilderness with the state minimum income and growing vegetables and he's very very happy. I know several people just like him. Sometimes I wonder why I don't follow their path! Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 14:52:57 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC Back in middle school I couldn't stand "Dizzy" tho all of my peers played it endlessly when I was in a bowling league. (Maybe that's why I don't "do" bowling to this day. To me, it seems so tacky.) But this does not mean that I'm free of Guilty Pleasures. Long ago, I also like the group Bread, although like the Monkees, they now seem vaguely embarrassing. I am hoplessly and unapologetcally in love, however with "Incense and Peppermints" by the Strawberry Alarm Clock. It just "works" for me. Like "Good Vibrations", it takes you on a psyedelic journey through many moods in far less than 4 minutes. I haven't had any psycotic experiences unless you count my girlfriends but I always enjoy this song. Unlike the 'real' thing, it's over far too soon, there's no sleeping for 24 hours straight, and you want more immediately. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 15:50:18 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: "Clouds" as a Coaster: A Cry for Inspiration You're not alone, Erica. "Clouds" has never 'worked' for me. Isn't it funny? How can that be? Don't fret though. How many John Lennon albums are stinkers? How many Paul McCartney albums are stinkers? Lord knows Dylan, Neil Young and REM has made stinkers. I don't understand how I can value the 10 album series from Blue through Wild Things Run Fast so much yet I can't "get" some of the others. Lest we doubt our dedication even for a second, remember that John, Paul, Bobby, Neil and Michael have never made a streak of 10 solo albums that come anywhere close to Joni's achievement. Lama Erica said, >>I noticed today that my "Clouds" cd had taken on a new job as a coaster on our coffee table... I felt sad but I just can't get into it... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:10:18 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: under [blank] NJC Point well taken. A liberal arts education is of value for itself and won't necesssarily pay off. But that's not why I'm bitter. I didnt go that way. I went for the money, with a information systems major from the college of business and I'm now living in the inner city with less income and a new debt load. I'm saying that even if you go for the dollar college doesn't pay off. Lama Sybill said, >>>>>Okay, now you've hit a nerve with me, and one of my pet peeves. One must ask themselves if they want an education or job training - they are often not the same thing. The focus in this country is so much on earning a dollar that little things like ignorance and illiteracy are just overlooked. REAL education in this country just isn't valued anymore, and I offer George W. Bush as exhibit #1. He finally hit the career jackpot, but that man is as dumb as a rock. No, being well educated doesn't insure a good job and income. It's all a matter of priorities I suppose. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:41:41 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Blank, NJC I like what Bob has to say here: > If someone is unhappy & they blame their job or > whatever, then they're not going to go very far in improving their HQ > (happiness quotient) imo. > > After all, Jefferson said that we were promised 'the PURSUIT of happiness', > not happiness itself. The "American Dream" is not something concrete that is promised or guaranteed to us but the pursuit of one's personal dreams are. I deliberately chose (and paid for) a major in school that I never expected to bring me wealth or a good job. I wanted to pursue my interest in art because it brought me personal happiness - period. And most everyone around me at the time thought I was being impractical to say the least (although my parents supported and defended my choice). Later, when it was time to pay off those student loans and other bills ;-) I returned to college twice to take courses that would help me improve my job opportunities. A few places I worked took advantage (when I started out women were still paid much less for performing the same job as men) but I continued to strive for a good job situation. It wasn't easy at all but on the other hand I never felt locked into anything and always believed (and still do) that one can work to put themselves where they want to be if they want it bad enough. I may not have a lot of money stored up but I have had very interesting jobs that have given me the opporuntity to travel all over the U.S. and there are many other valuable intangibles that I have gained from my choices. I don't have any regrets. This sounds like an old cliche but once I stopped blaming anyone or anything else for my job happiness, I suddenly started being offered more excellent and well-paying job situations. This is not at all to contradict the fact that most of us have had to endure some bad situations on the job. Maybe my point is that if you stop letting those situations have power over you and put your mind to concentrating on what it is that will bring you greater happiness, sometimes you can get there. Happy Independence Day to all those who celebrate it! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:45:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC In a message dated 7/4/02 2:53:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > . (Maybe that's why I don't "do" > bowling to this day. To me, it seems so tacky.) > > Blasphemy Jim!!!! You'll have to get "Dizzy" out of your head and try bowling again. It's not tacky. (at least you said "to me", so I forgive you :~D ) Bowling is fun fun fun. Joni even bowled on her high school bowling team. At her gallery showing in Saskatoon, she even said that her big dream was to have a bowling alley in her basement. I think to this day Joni would love to just shoot pool and bowl a few games with her friends. In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Jimmy, an avid bowler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:08:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Seasons in the Sun -njc Now Bread but still NJC, .....and Andy Kim NJC < Subject: Joni & Eminem can anyone connect these two? I can! I am seeing the Em boy on August 1 at Rosemont, same place I saw Joni in 2000 - appearing with Eminem is Papa Roach and I am sure that Joni has had a roach in her day, too (the Rev) Vince NP: Sox 5, Tigers 2, 7th inning ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:26:12 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: "Clouds" as a Coaster: A Cry for Inspiration Jim wrote - Don't fret though. How many John Lennon albums are stinkers? How many Paul McCartney albums are stinkers? Lord knows Dylan, Neil Young and REM has made stinkers. this reminds me of the abbot & costello routine about 'stinkers' (" you BIG stinka" ) anyhoo ... made myself laugh. thanks for conjuring this up. heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:47:06 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: One nation under ______ (njc) I love my country. The last ten months even more so. Eight days before the world changed forever I was driving to Logan Airport with three new Joni friends. We checked our bags at the curb. We walked through security and while our items rolled through x-ray the workers chatted about their holiday weekend, paying no mind to what might lurk in our carry-ons. We hugged and said goodbye and boarded planes that were a safe, reliable way to travel. Ten short months ago. I love my country. I vote in every election. I make sure that I vote, and when my candidate doesn't win I become involved in (his or her) next campaign. I pay my taxes, but bitch about them. I send my children to public school where they learn to say the Pledge (in whatever the latest form is) and sing "My Country Tis of Thee". I love my country because we are not afraid to roll up our sleves work together. We unite after a tragedy and continue to live. We forgive, and accept. Happy Independence Day to all of us in the United States. Sue n.p. Fireworks booming from the neighbor's yard _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 00:07:01 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Eminem Vince writes: << I am sure that Joni has had a roach in her day, too >> There has never been an insect or a bug of any kind in any of Joni's residences. --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #276 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?