From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #242 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, June 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 242 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Love: never looks for love ["brian symes" ] Re: Joni and the web ["Marian Russell " ] Bay Area NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni on DVD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Still open to guesses! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Papa Was A Rolling Stone - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Love: never looks for love [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question [anne@sandstrom.com] OOPS!!!!! (njc) - Ode to Billie Joe [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: dancing to architecture ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: dancing to architecture [Denny Giovanetti ] Re: Funeral Soundtrack [Engwall57@aol.com] when is the new album coming out? [John Goldsmith ] re: mayday - NJC ["flopit" ] FW: RE: Ronnie Dyson / rare lps NJC ["flopit" ] Re: dancing about architecture [FredNow@aol.com] Re: when is the new album coming out? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] njc Well done USA! (Football Content) [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: dancing to architecture ["patrick leader" ] RE: njc Well done USA! (tennis Content) ["patrick leader" ] Re: dancing to architecture njc [Randy Remote ] Re: dancing about architecture njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Renewed Byrds (njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: Funeral Soundtrack njc ["Heather" ] RE: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question ["Heather" ] Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ [Michael Paz Subject: Love: never looks for love After some testifying about Joni at her best I thought I would add that after getting such bad vibes from the phillistines about Mingus, when Joni finally came back and recorded WTRF Her spirit was filled with Love as every song is about this very subject.On the whole the songs look back to the rock and roll days,the LA express sound,jazz from Mingus and Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. Wayne Shorter inventing a type of background echo and riff's that will show up on future work with Joni. She is the master of her voice in WTRF she runs up and down the scales that makes other female rockers sound like one note squackers.On these songs she defines the music not the other way around. She was giving Geffen her very best. Brian Symes Architect Dancing with Architecture is a way of designing it Visualize a hummingbird working around a columbine in full bloom,The cat on a fence jumping down on the emerging mole, Amelia at 3 calling out a cloud as an airplane,then turning into a jumping puppy. Goodnightall. NP JM Track 11 on WTRF Love - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 03:22:10 -0400 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: Re: Joni and the web Brian Symes wrote: >To discover more Joni Trivia I typed in >two words "whisker wheat" and sure enough >the search engine came up with jmdl.com / >Lyrics/ coyote ! Then I always wanted to >know exactly what a "kick pleat skirt" was >and sure enough Amazon .com is selling them >for $ 16.00 Wow! great idea, Brian! I just searched for "raveen curls" and got: http://www.comm.uiuc.edu/Advertising/wisdommm/html/10ll180.htm You can see what they look like! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:34:56 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Bay Area NJC In a message dated 06/05/2002 12:04:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > I'd be psyched to get together! Please keep me in the loop on your > availability, Mary. It would be great to see Mary Grace, too, if we can > pry > her away from her Taylor Ham sandwich long enough for the get-together. > :-) > Then there's Jim, Walter, Darice and you know there may be more... > One of the funniest timing things about the JMDL is how the digests can go unread for ages and then the random ones I open have something like this! I'm going to be in New Jersey at the very beginning of your visit, Mary, but certainly around for the latter part. Please mark my email (mgval@aol.com), and keep me in the loop. The kids will be gone so I'll have a lot more leeway with free time. Goodness knows it's been ages since I've seen Julius or Darice!! MG - doing that internal debate: "Is it too early in the morning for a juicy slice of Taylor's Ham? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:40:52 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) b" A Bunch O' Bruce: E! Online's guide to all things Springsteen b" Springsteen: Not born to run for office b" E Street Band returns to the road Photos E! Online Photo The Boss and his fully reunited band have announced a July 30 release date for The Rising, his first full-scale studio reunion with the E Streeters in 18 years. b" A Bunch O' Bruce: E! Online's guide to all things Springsteen b" Springsteen: Not born to run for office b" E Street Band returns to the road Photos E! Online Photo Once a Jersey Girl, always a Jersey Girl... "The Boss and his fully reunited band have announced a July 30 release date for The Rising, his first full-scale studio reunion with the E Streeters in 18 years. " Gentle list members, please note that "fully reunited" means Max, Clarence and Miami Steve VZ. How cool is that? MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:48:30 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) In a message dated 6/5/02 6:41:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: > The Boss and his fully reunited band have announced a July 30 release date > for The Rising, his first full-scale studio reunion with the E Streeters in > 18 years. > I'm real excited about this as well MG. I was at the Stone Pony a few weeks ago to see La Bamba's big band and John Eddie. I waited in vain hoping that Bruce would show up, but it wasn't to be. btw, you'll be happy to know they're not tearing down the Stone Pony to make way for those new condominiums. They're building around it LMAO! The owners are on the planning board ;0) Thanks to all who signed the petition. New Jersey still Rocks! much juice, rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:13:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on DVD <> That's a funny bit of synchronicity, Kurt...I've been contemplating converting my VHS of "Refuge" to DVD. I'll keep you posted. Bob NP: Psychedelic Furs, "Better Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:27:03 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) I'm awaiting this record with baited breath. Not JUST because it's Bruce's first release of new music with the E-Streeters since 1984, not JUST because it's produced by Brendan O'Brien, who's done some incredible work with Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots and many more (yes Joni, a GOOD producer DOES make a difference!), but most of all because the majority of the songs were written post 9-11 and will deal with those themes. "My City Of Ruins" was one that fit (it was the song that kicked off the TV NYC benefit), but he already had that one in his pocket. Bruce is a writer I include in a small handful: Joni, Tom Waits, Elvis Costello, Andy Partridge, who can succeed in every level as composers (except commercially, but that's OK by me). Can't wait for this one...what a year it's been thus far for new music!! Bob NP: Pylon, "Feast On My Heart" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:30:54 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Still open to guesses! Just a quick reminder...if you want a shot at a free copy of "Covers, Volume 30", I'm still taking them through Thursday midnight. Just pick a song on a Joni record and the album it's on. Thanks to all who have guessed thus far! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:35:50 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Papa Was A Rolling Stone - njc <> That IS a great line, Heather. Reminds me of Bono's line: "You gave me nothing, now it's all I've got..." Bob NP: Pylon, "Weather Radio" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 05:51:28 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Love: never looks for love > Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. My God, you're right!Now I have to go listen to it again. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 06:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: OOPS!!!!! (njc) - Ode to Billie Joe Big oops!!!! The subject of a couple of different emails just got smooshed together on that last response. Hence the indecipherable subject line. Sorry about that! (I swear my email provider is haunted!) > I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's > version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts > about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It > 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie > Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, > great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what > they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you > feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:25:53 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) In a message dated 6/5/02 8:27:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Can't wait for this one...what a year it's been thus far for new music!! > > Thanks Bob for the info. My City of Ruins was originally written about his adopted city of Asbury Park. Hey, I just happened to notice, Clarence Clemens and Steve Forbert are playing on the Stone Pony summer stage July 6th. Do ya think Bruce might just happen to show up for this one? ;0) He's known to show up there and jump onstage with whomever is performing. For those of you who don't know, the Stone Pony is one of New Jersey's well known historical venues, an integral part of the "shore" community. It's a great place for we baby boomers to go and you don't have to feel old, but I warn you, wear earplugs. The music is LOUD! lol Living Colour and "Vanilla Fudge" are also scheduled in July. Rose who has yet to see Bruce live ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:33:42 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bruuuuuuuccceeee! (NJC) Here is the tracklisting for "The Rising"(Bruce's new one): "Lonesome Day" "Into the Fire" "Waitin' on a Sunny Day" "Nothing Man" "Countin' on a Miracle" "Empty Sky" "Worlds Apart" "Let's Be Friends" "Further on (Up the Road)" "The Fuse" "Mary's Place" "You're Missing" "The Rising" "Paradise" "My City of Ruins" From Billboard.com & The Boss, regarding these songs: Springsteen, who performed at several post-Sept. 11 benefits, says he wrote all but two of the 15 new songs on the album after the terrorist attacks that killed more than 3,000 people. "The songs I wrote sort of occur in that context," he said. "It's more of an emotional feeling that I felt -- and that I felt was in the air at that time." Some songs, he says, "deal more directly with it than others, but the stories all happen in a post-Sept. 11 context. If you were writing at that point, it's in everything in some fashion." Bob NP: Pylon, "Yo-Yo" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:37:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: dancing to architecture > furthermore, i think nietsche's statement is perverse in its avoidance of > the fact that art is always searching to describe what's outside of itself. > does joni think writing should only be about writing? does she write music > that's only about music? is poetry about love lame because it's not > actually love? of course not, but neitsche and joni miss that point. > This excerpt from a Neil Young interview below I think really captures the idea about art, music in this case, searching to describe what's outside of itself. I think Joni's statement is more about herself, as statements often are, that "she" probably couldn't write about music...but some people do very well... Victor *EXCERPT from New York Times - Sunday Magazine 7/30/00 Neil Young On a Good Day By Steve Erickson ''I just didn't like people telling me what to do,'' he explains almost offhandedly. ''I didn't like people telling me if I made more records like 'Harvest,' I would be successful. That's when I came up with the concept of destroying what I created in order to move on. I wanted to do what I called audio verite.'' He pauses and looks out the window. ''At a certain point, trained, accomplished musicians'' -- which is to say, not him -- hit the wall. They don't go there very often, they don't have the tools to go through the wall, because it's the end of notes. It's the other side, where there's only tone, sound, ambience, landscape, earthquakes, pictures, fireworks, the sky opening, buildings falling, subways collapsing. . . . When you go through the wall, the music takes on that kind of atmosphere, and it doesn't translate the way other music translates. When you get to the other side, you can't go back. I don't know too many musicians who try to go through the wall.'' He stops for a moment. ''I love to go through the wall,'' as if you ever doubted it for a moment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: RE: dancing to architecture I think that the original is a comparison, viz, "Architecture is frozen music," or some such. Never quite got that one; esp. regarding the simplistic comparison of one form with another. Detracts from the significance of either, yes? (And, historically, music does pre-date architecture, going back to the days when folk lived in simple minor chord structures.) Denny, wondering which pile the Bartlett's is under ? "The American public wants tragedy with a happy ending." --Wm. Dean Howells ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 03:11:41 +1200 From: "Tom Rodwell" Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ Hi folks, First time poster here. I think the quote about "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" might have been a Frank Zappa quote... it sounds like the kinda thing he'd say about "the imaginary journalistic profession", and I'm pretty sure I've seen an interview where he uses it. As a musician and occasional journalist (I interviewed Karen O'Brien in late December here in NZ for a local broadsheet) it's one of my favourite quotes - although, yes, I must admit it also has a Nietzschean ring to it. Speaking of FZ, I have a hundred or so 'audience recordings', but not the one where Joni joined the group onstage at the Fillmore in 70 or 71. Does anyone on the list have it? I believe she improvised a song/poem including the words "Penelope wants to fuck the sea"...with Zappa conducting the Mothers of Invention behind her. Cheers, Tom Rodwell Auckland New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:54:50 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just love that tune. I've never heard of Ellen McIlwaine. Anne, which album is that on? I would like to order one of her cd's and check it out. donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of anne@sandstrom.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:14 AM To: courtandspark@earthlink.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Re: today in bobbie gentry history - njc Phranc does a nice cover of 'Ode to Billy Joe' (if there can be such a thing) on her Goofyfoot cd. Anyone else here like Phranc? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:23:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Dancing about architecture NJC I've heard this quote attributed to many people, most often John Cage (interesting, given that his long-time partner, choreagrapher Merce Cunningham, could probably dance about architecture very well). It was recently the topic of much discussion on another emil list I'm on, and someone came up with this url: http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm which if not clearing up the origin of the quote, at least is an interesting read. > << Writing about music, Mitchell reportedly once scoffed, is >"like dancing to >> architecture.">> >> > >Shouldn't it be "dancing ABOUT architecture"? Jerry Garcia and >others have made this or similar comments. Wonder where this came >from originally.... >RR Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:33:58 -0400 From: Engwall57@aol.com Subject: Re: Funeral Soundtrack If I were making a funeral soundtrack, my top choice would be Sweet Bird. It makes quite a statement about the brevity of life, and its preciousness. It might inspire some of the mourners to make some changes or go out and do something they had been putting off, before their turn in the casket came. Another song I would choose is My Best to You from TTT. I know Joni did not write it, but the way in which she sings it is like a benediction. I would play it at the end of the service. It is like Joni is singing to everyone, "Go in Peace". Another possible choice would be Songs to Aging Children. That song was used in a funeral scene in Alice's Restaurant. Joni's performance of it has an other worldly sound. I think everyone should plan their own funeral in advance. I keep trying to talk my husband into pre-buying a plot, so we can go there for picnics before the fact, and kind of get used to it, but that is too bizarre for him. Regards, Ruth from Richmond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:43:46 -0700 From: John Goldsmith Subject: when is the new album coming out? I've been anxious since november, awaiting for our muse's by-product. does anybody know a release date? thanks john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:01:48 -0700 From: "flopit" Subject: re: mayday - NJC - ---- Original Message ---- From: flopit [flopit@mweb.co.za] Sent: 4-Jun-2002 19:48:17 To: JMDL Digest [les@jmdl.com] Cc: Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2002 #240 hi >>>> I thought Canadians and Europeans would be more likely to know the answer since the distress signal is derived from the homophonic French "M'aidez," which of course means "Help Moi!" <<< >>>>That correct response was worth thousands of dollars! I majored in French :-) (and look where it got me...) And, since you asked, I just heard something on the radio the other day (no lie!) that explained that it's "m'aider" instead of "m'aidez" because it's an abbreviation of "Venez m'aider." Don't you just hate it when she does that??? :-) (gotta show off the thousands somehow - all those big bucks didn't do anything else for me...)<<<<< actually - that is a common misconception to cover up the truth. "mayday" is actually a mispronunciation of "Merde!!" :-) ron whose sole distinguishing moment during his 2 years airforce was bringing in a "mayday" aircraft safe & sound!! np beth orton - stolen car ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:02:40 -0700 From: "flopit" Subject: FW: RE: Ronnie Dyson / rare lps NJC - ---- Original Message ---- From: flopit [flopit@mweb.co.za] Sent: 4-Jun-2002 20:05:48 To: JMDL Digest [les@jmdl.com] Cc: Subject: RE: Ronnie Dyson / rare lps NJC hi >>>mack watson-bush wrote >>>I love ebay. Have wondered for years how one could get the albums that we used to have. Have envisioned warehouses of those wonderful recordings and figured they had to be there, somewhere. The record stores, Columbia record club, etc., only advertise greatest hits as a general rule, of those that I loved so much and longed to hear again. Have searched for Gene Cotton and Ronnie Dyson for over 23 years without luck. Today Ronnie came in the mail and Cotton a couple of weeks ago. All courtesy of ebay and for ridiculously low prices. Only low point is that they are albums and I worry about the complete dissolution of turntables, but for now it is okay. The Dyson album had never even been opened. Somewhere they are all waiting to be had. Hooray. What do the record companies do with all those unsold albums? ok i never heard of these two. but i went to do a search on them. ronnie dyson turned up over a hundred hits, & gene cotton turned up around sixty something. all sorts of media, cd, lp, 7 single, and even a couple of 8 tracks!! the place to look??? - www.gemm.com (gemm = global electronic music marketplace) - probably the best site for out of the ordinary and rare music. and if you cant find it there, & its vinyl youre looking for - then go to www.aonerecordfinders.com who apparently have around a *million* titles in stock!! ron np beth orton - central reservation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:16:51 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: dancing about architecture "patrick leader" writes: >i think the original quote is "writing about music is like dancing about >architecture" and i think joni stole it (as she so often does) from >nietsche. usually she gives him credit, though. > >i hate the comment, though, whether it's from joni, jerry garcia, or >nietsche. i think, at the minimum, it displays ignorance about the >possibilities of dancing. as a visual art, dancing is actually well-suited >to be "about" architecture ... I've always seen the quote attributed to Thelonious Monk, but who knows who really said it. In any case, I totally agree with Patrick; this ubiquitous quote has always been one of my pet peeves. Beyond choreographers who have created dances about architecture (and there have been more than a few), dance itself is all about architecture! It's about weight, balance, shape, form, perspective, and the interdependent relationship of these. And it's eminently possible to write about music; it can be done well or not, just like anything else. All that aside, however, there is a sense implied by that quote that there are intangible but nevertheless quite real things pure music can express which words (or dance, or architecture, or anything else) cannot, and that is very true. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: when is the new album coming out? Hi John, Good question. A release date has not been announced on the official website. To find out the latest at any time go to: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Frames1.html There's no release date posted yet. Until then, would you like a cassette of the Camden, NJ stop of the "Both Sides Now" tour? A friend of mine made an audience recording using superb microphones and a portable digital recorder. He gave me a first-generation ultra-quality cassette dub on the condition that I spread the joy. Contact me off-list if you want to hear Vince's arrangements of "Judgement Of the Moon And Stars" and "Be Cool". These titles are rumored to included in the upcoming 2 CDs to be released as separate titles. Lamadoo Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:46:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Re FTR for the first time Cool. Sorry, Mike. I had just seen "Episode Two" and I was 'hearing' what I 'wanted to hear'. Speaking of hearing, I just listened to a $400 CD player today and boy, howdy! It wipes the floor in every respect with this little $120 jobbie I've had. I've re-doubled my commitment to double my income. The sax! The cymbals! The band eases and pushes- it breathes like real music. It doesn't sound like it's taut along a wire- thin and compressed. Lama - --- Mike Pritchard wrote: > No, Lama, it is > not the first time I had heard FTR, but it WAS the > first time I had heard > it through good 'phones Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:00:15 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: njc Well done USA! (Football Content) Ah well, this confirms to me just how far Association Football has to travel before it seeps into the national consciousness over the pond: not one mention of America's stunning victory over Portugal in the World Cup!! Azeem in rainy London, bemoaning the fact that my telly has given up the ghost at about the worst time possible, less than two days before England's crucial match against Argentina - AAAARRRRGH!! NP: Antonio Forcione & Sabina Sciubba - Meet Me In London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:40:22 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: dancing to architecture nice, nice words from neil. i don't agree with your take on joni's motivation, but that's just fine. thanks a lot for this bit. patrick np - taming the tiger, which i've for some reason been listening a lot to lately. just love the title song. be nice, kitty, kitty... >-----Original Message----- >From: Victor Johnson [mailto:waytoblu@mindspring.com] >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 1:38 PM >To: joni@smoe.org; patrick leader >Subject: RE: dancing to architecture > > > >> >> furthermore, i think nietsche's statement is perverse in its avoidance of >> the fact that art is always searching to describe what's outside of >itself. >> does joni think writing should only be about writing? does she write >music >> that's only about music? is poetry about love lame because it's not >> actually love? of course not, but neitsche and joni miss that point. >> > >This excerpt from a Neil Young interview below I think really captures the >idea about art, music in this case, searching to describe what's outside of >itself. I think Joni's statement is more about herself, as statements >often are, that "she" probably couldn't write about music...but some people >do very well... > >Victor > >*EXCERPT from > >New York Times - Sunday Magazine 7/30/00 > >Neil Young On a Good Day >By Steve Erickson > > >''I just didn't like people telling me what to do,'' he explains almost >offhandedly. ''I didn't like people telling me if I made more records like >'Harvest,' I would be successful. That's when I came up with the concept of >destroying what I created in order to move on. I wanted to do what I called >audio verite.'' > >He pauses and looks out the window. ''At a certain point, trained, >accomplished musicians'' -- which is to say, not him -- hit the wall. They >don't go there very often, they don't have the tools to go through the >wall, because it's the end of notes. It's the other side, where there's >only tone, sound, ambience, landscape, earthquakes, pictures, fireworks, >the sky opening, buildings falling, subways collapsing. . . . When you go >through the wall, the music takes on that kind of atmosphere, and it >doesn't translate the way other music translates. When you get to the other >side, you can't go back. I don't know too many musicians who try to go >through the wall.'' He stops for a moment. ''I love to go through the >wall,'' as if you ever doubted it for a moment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:49:58 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: njc Well done USA! (tennis Content) i'm loving venus, serena AND jcap all into the french open quarters. i'm betting serena and venus into the finals, with, for the first time, both bringing their a games, and serena triumphant in three hugely hardfought sets! woohoo... patrick np - happiness is the best facelift ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:49:58 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: dancing about architecture - now njc >All that aside, however, there is a sense implied by that quote that there >are intangible but nevertheless quite real things pure music can express >which words (or dance, or architecture, or anything else) cannot, >and that is >very true. > have to agree with that. however, i do love the bleeding of the edges. jackson pollock's painting 'autumn rhythm' suggests both music and even more, dance, that i felt it was speaking to me as a dancer from the first time i saw it. movement in space bound by rhythm, such as pollock had to do to create it: that IS dance. patrick jfp - stay in touch ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:21:27 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Love: never looks for love I agree totally, and will add that it was the last album she did before ciggies claimed her voice. rfc, RR brian symes wrote: > After some testifying about Joni at her best I thought I would add that after getting such bad vibes from the phillistines about Mingus, when Joni finally came back and recorded WTRF Her spirit was filled with Love as every song is about this very subject.On the whole the songs look back to the rock and roll days,the LA express sound,jazz from Mingus and Be cool sounds so much like Bernsteins song in West Side Story. Wayne Shorter inventing a type of background echo and riff's that will show up on future work with Joni. She is the master of her voice in WTRF she runs up and down the scales that makes other female rockers sound like one note squackers.On these songs she defines the music not the other way around. > She was giving Geffen her very best. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:22:54 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: dancing to architecture njc On the other hand, suppose a person had never heard music. No amount of writing could convey it accurately. And if one had never seen architecture, dancing would be a poor way to explain it. Compared to say, illustration or film. RR patrick leader wrote: > i think the original quote is "writing about music is like dancing about > architecture" and i think joni stole it (as she so often does) from > nietsche. usually she gives him credit, though. > > i hate the comment, though, whether it's from joni, jerry garcia, or > nietsche. i think, at the minimum, it displays ignorance about the > possibilities of dancing. as a visual art, dancing is actually well-suited > to be "about" architecture, and several choreographers i'm familiar with > have done fantastic work creating dances about architecture. george > balanchine's 50's neoclassical ballets reflected the edgyness of new york > life then, including the agressive expansion of its skyline. lar lubovitch > in the '80s made a dance called 'big shoulders', a tribute to his home town > chicago, that truly did reflect its architecture. and mark morris' dance > 'marble halls' brilliantly drew the connections between bach's musical > structures and the baroque architecture of bach's era. and you know, there > ARE more. > > furthermore, i think nietsche's statement is perverse in its avoidance of > the fact that art is always searching to describe what's outside of itself. > does joni think writing should only be about writing? does she write music > that's only about music? is poetry about love lame because it's not > actually love? of course not, but neitsche and joni miss that point. > > i'm a little more angry with joni, because i find the comment self-serving. > she was unhappy with the writing about her music at that point, so she > devalues all of it, and not even with her own words. it's a bit childish, > and for someone who has a pretty good eye and ear for art, a little > tone-deaf-and-blind. i've never read proust, but i understand his writing > about music is sublime. i've read both fiction and non-fiction about music > made my heart sing. i know it's out there, good writing about music. and i > hope to see more good dancing about architecture. i feel a little sorry for > joni if she can't read and see the those joys. > > patrick, end mild rant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:29:20 -0400 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: dancing about architecture njc This strikes me as a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" discussion. ;-) The quote amounts to irony (incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the expected result) in the form of a simile. I certainly don't think it was anyone's ambition to diss or misconstrue Dance with the statement. It was intended to provoke thought and amuse, I think. Nothing more. Nevertheless, the sentiment is an apt comparison, I think...and you'd be hard pressed to find one who appreciates the art of dance more than I. Take the quote literally and it makes perfect sense. But one could just as accurately say that "music about writing is like architecture about dancing" or "architecture about music is like dancing about writing." Take any of the art forms (Dance, Design, Theatre, Fine Art, Music, Media Arts or Architecture) and interchange them in the expression. The song remains the same. What is "art" anyway? By the way, if you don't believe architecture can be "about" music, visit architect Frank Gehry's Walt Disney Concert Hall for the Los Angeles Philharmonic while it's under construction, just a block away from where Kakki lives in downtown L.A.: "From the stainless steel curves of its striking exterior to the state-of-the-art acoustics of the hardwood-paneled main auditorium, the 3.6-acre complex embodies the unique energy and creative spirit of the city of Los Angeles and its orchestra." It occurs to me that the above illustrates writing about architecture about music. Go figure. - -Julius patrick writes: >i think the original quote is "writing about music is like dancing about >architecture" and i think joni stole it (as she so often does) from >nietsche. usually she gives him credit, though. > >i hate the comment, though, whether it's from joni, jerry garcia, or >nietsche. i think, at the minimum, it displays ignorance about the >possibilities of dancing. as a visual art, dancing is actually well-suited >to be "about" architecture ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 19:47:17 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Renewed Byrds (njc) Oh Kakki this is so cool and right in your back yard. Sometimes I wish I lived in the OTHER LA. Paz on 6/3/02 5:43 PM, Kakki at KakkiB@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Oh my, my, my, my - life is too good! From the Byrds list by way of the CSN > list: > > Hi. Andrew Gold here (Ronstadt, Lonely Boy, Thank You For Being A Friend, > Mad About You etc). I've been a Byrds fanatic since I was 14 and have > continued > to be in touch with Roger, David, and Chris. With their blessing, and with > the > promise that they may sit in from time to time, I'm starting a once-a-week, > LA based, all BYRDS tribute band, and we are gonna do nothing but Byrds > songs, > especially the first 5 albums, which to me was their golden period. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:16:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ I believe she improvised a song/poem including > the words "Penelope wants to f**k the sea"...with Zappa conducting the > Mothers of Invention behind her. > > Welcome, Todd. I've never heard about this performance but I do know there is a book of poetry that Joni created and I believe hand printed a very few copies of for friends called 'Morning Glory on the Vine'. It has a poem in it entitled 'Penelope Wants to F**k the Sea' (the asterisks are for those who may get their Joni mail at work and/or have filters that auto-delete mail with certain words in them). I had the privilege of actually seeing one of these rara avis when Leslie Mixon visited Seattle several years ago and was kind enough to bring one with her and let me peruse it. (Natasha, if you're out there, I miss you.) I believe there's someone else on the list who has a copy of this book. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:18:03 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: today in bobbie gentry history - njc > Phranc does a nice cover of 'Ode to Billy Joe' (if > there can be such a thing) on her Goofyfoot cd. I like that song! (the original by Bobbie Gentry, that is) Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:19:51 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Funeral Soundtrack njc > I think everyone should plan their own funeral in advance. I keep trying to talk my husband into pre-buying a plot, so we can go there for picnics before the fact, and kind of get used to it, but that is too bizarre for him. LOL! I like this idea, Ruth! But then I've always liked cemeteries. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:16:00 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Funeral Soundtrack njc this seems like a grave situation. heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Mark or Travis Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:20 PM To: Engwall57@aol.com; katiekate@iglide.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Funeral Soundtrack njc > I think everyone should plan their own funeral in advance. I keep trying to talk my husband into pre-buying a plot, so we can go there for picnics before the fact, and kind of get used to it, but that is too bizarre for him. LOL! I like this idea, Ruth! But then I've always liked cemeteries. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:26:20 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question i'm glad to see ellen mentioned. you hit the nail on the head, anne, with this description of ellen's version of ode to billy joe. it's one of my favorites. the closest that ellen is playing around here is in woodstock, ny this month. i'm hoping she gets closer to this area (ct/ma). thanks for mentioning this. heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of anne@sandstrom.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:14 AM To: courtandspark@earthlink.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: [JMDLLEZ] not an answer - just another question I just went back and listened to Ellen McIlwaine's version of Ode to Billy Joe. If you have any doubts about this song, THIS is the version to listen to. It 's like she took all the sweetener out of the Bobbie Gentry version and injected a shot of whiskey. Great, great version - and it doesn't leave you wondering what they dropped off the bridge so much as just makes you feel the desperation of the girl who sings the song. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:15:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: unusual Joni cover? NJC The following is an exerpt from a message posted to another e-mail group I belong to. I'm going to try and get a copy, I can pass it on to interested JMDL-ers. I was going through some man on > the > street tapes I did from last year and I noticed that > I > have an abundance of homeless singing. Some are good > and some are bad, but all true musical genuises. The one I have played so far on the air > is a man named Joey. The whole segment was ten > minutes > long as he tried to sell me garbage, ask for money, > and then did a soulful 5 minute version of Joni > Mitchell's "Last Time I Saw Richard" (side note: I > gave him ten bucks). I'll try to compile them onto a > cassette or CD-R if anyone wants to trade ;) Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:04:22 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: dancing to architecture....Joni and FZ Hi Mark I found this excerpt on a Zappa page about this As a result, Zappa9s official catalogue is filled with credited and uncredited guest appearances by, among others, Ike Turner, Johnny 'Guitar' Watson, John Lennon and Sting. Other performances still haven't been released, such as Van Morrison's original vocal on "Dead Girls of London" or a show in which Joni Mitchell allegedly joined the Mothers on stage and improvised the lyric, "Penelope wants to fuck the sea." Even Bob Dylan came calling one winter night (wearing no coat, with his shirt wide open) with demo tapes (for what became Infidels), looking for Zappa to produce. Zappa didn9t recognize Dylan by sight or voice and sent a bodyguard to confirm that it wasn9t Charles Manson. It would be cool to ring Dweezil up and get him to find this for us. Paz on 6/5/02 6:16 PM, Mark or Travis at mark.travis@gte.net wrote: > I believe she improvised a song/poem including >> the words "Penelope wants to f**k the sea"...with Zappa conducting the >> Mothers of Invention behind her. >> >> > Welcome, Todd. > > I've never heard about this performance but I do know there is a book of > poetry that Joni created and I believe hand printed a very few copies of for > friends called 'Morning Glory on the Vine'. It has a poem in it entitled > 'Penelope Wants to F**k the Sea' (the asterisks are for those who may get > their Joni mail at work and/or have filters that auto-delete mail with > certain words in them). I had the privilege of actually seeing one of these > rara avis when Leslie Mixon visited Seattle several years ago and was kind > enough to bring one with her and let me peruse it. (Natasha, if you're out > there, I miss you.) I believe there's someone else on the list who has a > copy of this book. > > Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #242 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?