From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
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Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #235
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JMDL Digest           Friday, May 31 2002           Volume 2002 : Number 235



The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be
found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news,
a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more.

The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  Non-American, non-English language music  ["John van Tiel" <johnvantiel@ho]
  Re: 9/11 tribute on hbo njc (long)  ["Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>]
  Re: Questions for a research paper                        [AzeemAK@aol.com]
  radiohead njc                                   [Mags <pholden@iprimus.ca>]
  Re: they took me away once again       [Nuriel Tobias <nuriel@wowmail.com>]
  Joni in Fiction                 ["Marianne Rizzo" <treegreen1@hotmail.com>]
  Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #155                          [Engwall57@aol.com]
  Ad in the Paper       ["Sharon L. Buffington" <sharonbuffington@attbi.com>]
  oops                  ["Sharon L. Buffington" <sharonbuffington@attbi.com>]
  Re: Questions for a research paper  ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" <jlamadoo@]
  Joni in Fiction (Television)               [Lori in MD <lrfye58@yahoo.com>]
  Re: Questions for a research paper          [Rick and Susan <rnsc@shaw.ca>]
  Re: yet another interesting journey/Christine Lavin (njc)  ["Victor Johnso]
  Questions for a research paper                            [AzeemAK@aol.com]
  Re: Christine Lavin (njc)                   [Alison E <alisone4@yahoo.com>]
  ER NJC                            ["Grace" <Grace@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk>]
  head/heart                        ["Grace" <Grace@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk>]
  A freebie for you (Joni cover)                          [SCJoniGuy@aol.com]
  njc Eminem sings!                    [Vince Lavieri <revrvl@chartermi.net>]
  A continuing discussion and what the research paper is about  ["S M" <pian]
  Joni Mitchell: The Complete Poems and Lyrics  ["S M" <pianogirrrl23@hotmai]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:00:17 +0200
From: "John van Tiel" <johnvantiel@home.nl>
Subject: Non-American, non-English language music

<Tried to send this yesterday in reply to the 'American Music' thread, but it
bounced. New try.>

Over here in Holland we are literally enclosed by different languages and
different musical cultures. Although US and UK productions constitute the
majority of what we hear everyday, some none-US and none-UK music has left
deep impressions on me over the years. Off-list I have shared some with other
listers, but I would love to share some here in the general forum, too -
hoping that others are willing to do so as well.

First and foremost: Jacques Brel and Barbara (no last name).

Barbara
is to me in French/France (or rather, was, she died a few years ago) what Joni
is in English. Way up and above 'the rest'. Especially her albums from the
1963 -1968 period are pearls. Beautiful lyrics, fantastic clean musicianship
and great emotional honesty and depth. I would have a hard time if people
would ask me to choose between Joni and Barbara. Just listen to 'Pierre' for a
love song. I've been listening to her for over 20 years now and her music has
not lost anything of its spellbinding qualities.

Jacques Brel
has written some of the most gripping songs ever (Ne Me Quitte Pas is almost
impossible to ruin by whatever cover version). His lyrical brilliance is
unsurpassed to me.

and to mention just two others ...

Boubacar Traori
A griotte singer from Mali. Just guitar and voice, sometimes a little bit of
percussion. I have no idea what he is singing when he is singing in Malinese,
but I keep playing his 'Kar Kar' and 'Mariana' albums for the sheer beauty of
his voice and guitar playing.

Herman van Veen
A Dutch lyrical singer, violinist and comedian (appreciated in Germany, too)
with a voice and lyrics that can go straight to the heart - with me at least
but I'm a big sentimental sob at times).

I'd be really interested in other off-the-beaten-track preferences on the
list.

John

NP: Barbara - Nantes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:18:07 -0700
From: "Kate Bennett" <kate@katebennett.com>
Subject: Re: 9/11 tribute on hbo njc (long)

thanks for sharing all of your feelings & thoughts kay...

>>I feel that the producers went too far at some points -- I for one did not
need to see
more than one person jump, more than one time.  And I really didn't need to
see one of the jumpers sprawled, post-mortem, on the ground.<<

I agree that this was unecessary & disrespectful...

>>It was perhaps an unhealthy thing for me to watch the film.  I really
relived a lot that I would care not to, but I imagine that I will relive it
in bits and pieces for the rest of my life. However, one good thing about it
was that I really, really, really cried
while watching it, and that was a relief of sorts, as I was almost totally
unable to cry for months after 9/11.<<<

I always think that its cathartic to be able to finally cry about traumatic
events...& sometimes it does take reliving them to get to that place...

>>>I was astounded by the deadly grace with which the roof sank<<

That is an amazing sentence.

>>It is to me truly miraculous that less than 3,000 people died that day,
because by rights it could have been 25,000 or more (there were close to
100,000 people working in the whole complex.)<<<

I feel the same way. Tragic as it is that even one person had to die, as a
number compared to how many could have died...it really is amazing.

>>Denial is my drug of choice these days, because I have decided to stay
here.<<

On a smaller scale, mine too, because we keep returning...because I grew up
in the area & will always need & love NYC.


********************************************
Kate Bennett
www.katebennett.com
sponsored by Polysonics
Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars:
http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html
********************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:07:37 EDT
From: AzeemAK@aol.com
Subject: Re: Questions for a research paper

Hello Stephanie,

Taking as read that it's all a matter of opinion, I think your definition of 
Joni's 3 musical periods does hold water, except that I would definitely put 
Mingus in the middle period, of which it seems to be in some ways a 
culmination (not an entirely positive one): the jazz influences that had 
become more pronounced over the previous three were slap bang in the 
foreground; lyrically it was more elliptical than ever - contrast Wild Things 
Run Fast, where the lyrics, by Joni's standards, are much more 
straightforward; and, to these ears, Mingus is the farthest Joni ever got 
away from "easy listening", while WTRF is much closer to that rubric.

When it comes to quality, for me the middle period is streets ahead of the 
others, with the exception of Blue, the transitional work, which sees a great 
leap forward, from "good", "promising" and "loads of potential" to simply 
"great".  From then she was unstoppable through the rest of that decade, 
after which [those of a nervous disposition please avert your eyes] her 
brilliant flame cooled appreciably.  I will be absolutely delighted if she 
scales those artistic peaks again, and given that Dylan and Neil Young, whose 
"fall from grace" was for more precipitous, have pulled rabbits out of hats 
at a time when all but their biggest fans must have given hope, I wouldn't 
bet against it.

My big reservation is about revisiting her old songs - as far as I'm 
concerned, the great creative renaissance ain't gonna come from that 
direction!

Azeem in London

NP: Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left - Ah, would that this fragile genius had 
lived long enough to have beginning, middle and end periods...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 07:52:13 -0400
From: Mags <pholden@iprimus.ca>
Subject: radiohead njc

if you were to pick up one radiohead cd, which would it be? pls let me
know off list, thanks.

mags

np: i believe, stevie wonder. ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 05:16:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nuriel Tobias <nuriel@wowmail.com>
Subject: Re: they took me away once again

Hi Randy,
thanks for the tiny homecoming and all.
Yes, it's hard to tell what she's smoking on the lakota clip. if you notice the end of the video, the old indian offers a bhang or a peace pipe with weed to a child, and the child refuses to smoke it. that video, in case anyone's missed it, was filmed be the indian kids. Joni only did the editing.


thanks again, and lots of lovelife to ya,

nuriel
- --- Randy Remote <guitarzan@direcpc.com> wrote:
>
>
>Nuriel Tobias wrote:
>
>> as for Joni -
>
>> do you think that joni is alcoholic? The thought has crossed my mind several times. In the Lacota video - is that a joint she's smoking or what? i need to know, because i'm now on NA (narcotic anonimous) and i would like to know more about Joni and her bad girl habits.
>>
>
>I don't think she is an alcoholic. She just doesn't come across as one.
>Her fondness for a drink now and then is pretty well documented in
>her own songs. I don't remember the Lakota video, but in interviews
>she has admitted to smoking the wacky tabacky, and sometimes
>receiving artistic inspiration from it. Bad habits? The other weed...
>the legal one...definitely hooked......
>Nice to have you back.
>RR

_____________________________________________________________
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_____________________________________________________________
Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:41:27 -0400
From: "Marianne Rizzo" <treegreen1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Joni in Fiction

>In January, when I first suggested creating a section of the JMDL for >Joni 
>references in novels, I thought it would just be a list of 5 or >10 books.

>Then JMDLers suggested that we also include films, poetry, plays and >TV 
>shows, so now there are 60 entries with more coming in all the >time, 
>thanks to alert JMDLers!

>And Joni in Fiction is so much more than just a list, thanks to Les >Irvin 
>and Lori Fye. You can actually click on book and movie graphics >to order 
>them from Amazon, and you can click on the movie titles to >get more info 
>about individual films from the Internet Movie Database. >I'd like to thank 
>Les for  giving me the opportunity to make Joni in >Fiction happen.      
>Poor Les. He  couldn't have found a more tech->challenged person to take on 
>this job! Luckily, Lori Fye stepped in to >save the day. Thanks, Lori! 
>You've been a godsend!

>If I even began to try to thank all the JMDLers who have helped out by 
>letting me know about Joni mentions they've come across, I'd be >rambling 
>on longer than an Academy Award winner (And I'd also like to >thank God and 
>my attorneys . . ."). Thank you all. And please let me >know if I've 
>screwed up your credits in any way.

>So if you haven't seen the new Joni in Fiction feature yet, check it >out. 
>I think you'll be intrigued at the ways some of the best (and >worst!) 
>writers and directors of our time have used Joni in their >work.

http://www.jmdl.com/fiction >>

>And to those who have sent new Joni references and corrections since 
>yesterday -- I'm working on it, I'm working on it!

>    --Bob


Bob Murphy, Lori, and Les:

The joni in Fiction section that you created is TERRIFIC!
Thank you.

I also like how you have added the names of the JMDLers who contributed to 
each entry.  This gives a personal touch, which is enjoyable.

I also found it intriguing to see a book by Jacqueline Susann and Ray 
Lawrence, entitled "Shadow of the Dolls."  I have to say, I have read 
"Valley of the Dolls" several times (first when I was 16), and other books 
by Jacqueline Susann and have throughly loved many of them.
I will have to read this one too.

Anywho,
back to the Joni in Fiction work:  This is incredible.  And the visuals are 
a treat as well.

Everyone, you've got to check this out.

Ms. Joni herself will be impressed when she sees it!

THANK YOU to all who contributed.


Marianne

"tearful at the falling of a star. .. .




_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:54:20 -0400
From: Engwall57@aol.com
Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2002 #155

In a message dated Wed, 29 May 2002  7:18:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, StDoherty@aol.com writes:

>I never got the sense that The Blonde in the Bleachers was Joni.  Just an 
>observation of the music business and the "stars."  I definitely heard the 
>empathy, perhaps the sisterhood, but not that she was the one flipping her 
>hair.  One of those Joni female observations (i.e., danced with the lady with 
>the hole in her stocking). 

I agree with you.  I am sure this scenario played out dozens (hundreds)of times around Joni, with Joni observing and comparing to her own similar situations.

Ruthie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:55:23 -0500
From: "Sharon L. Buffington" <sharonbuffington@attbi.com>
Subject: Ad in the Paper

The following ad in "The Atlanta Journal" is reported to have gotten
numerous calls...SINGLE BLACK FEMALE... "Seeks male companionship,
ethnicity unimportant. I'm a very good looking girl who LOVES to play. I
love long walks in the woods, riding in your pickup truck, hunting,
camping, and fishing trips, cozy winter nights lying by the fire.
Candlelight dinners will have me eating out of your hand. Rub me the
right
way and watch me respond. I'll be at the front door when you get home
from
work, wearing only what nature gave me. Kiss me and I'm yours. Call
xxx-xxxx and ask for Daisy."
Over 150 men found themselves talking to the Local Humane Society about
an
eight-week-old black Labrador Retriever puppy.

_

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:59:50 -0500
From: "Sharon L. Buffington" <sharonbuffington@attbi.com>
Subject: oops  

I am sorry.  I forgot to put NJC on that previous post...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:43:47 -0400
From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" <jlamadoo@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Questions for a research paper

Stephanie,

I apologize for being so philosophical last night about your direct
questions.  Here I'll answer the remaining ones simply.

You asked:
>2) Does anyone think that the output
has stayed at the same level of quality?>

Honestly?  No, the early stuff like "Pirates Of Penance" shows that she was
learning to write.  The latest stuff shows that she's writing with her
'brain' instead of her 'heart'.  The middle period, FTR-> WTRF is the
platinum era where she outshone every other songwriter of her generation in
many, many areas simultaneously.


And then you asked:
>3) Does anyone think that her best material was produced at the beginning
and end of her career?>


Not me.  See above.


Then you asked:
>4) Can you recommend to me any specific articles that you feel give an
accurate in-depth bio of Joni?>


You mean the best overview in a single article?  Yes.  While my first
reaction was to point you to Karen O'Brien's bio, "Shadows and Light," there
was a very well-done overview that hits a lot of stuff.  It was written by
Bill Flanagan for Vanity Fair magazine, published in June 1997.  Les has it
posted at:
http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9706vf.cfm

On my computer, it's 23 screens worth but it's never been said better, imo.
I just scanned it for a reference to her over-arching inspiration, Mr.
Kratzman but it looks like he's not in the article.  He's pivotal to
understanding the quality control efforts in her lyrics.  If I remember
correctly, Jim Johanson of jonimitchell.com wrote a wonderful piece about
Joni receiving the World Leaders prize from Kratzman in Toronto but for the
life of me, I can't find it on the official page.  Here's a brief mention of
the relationship:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/ChildhoodDays.html

You go, student.

Uncle Lama

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lori in MD <lrfye58@yahoo.com>
Subject: Joni in Fiction (Television)

From this website, http://tvguide.aol.com/tv/televisionary/000530a.asp, a mention of Joni on NBC's Providence:
- -----
Question: Help. In last weeks season finale of Providence Syd's sister Joanie played a song for her in the hospital. What was the name of the song and who was singing it? Thank you.

Televisionary: I believe the song you seek is Joni Mitchell's The Circle Game, which is on the classic album Ladies of the Canyon. (It's also available on the recent collection Hits, a reasonably OK primer for the uninitiated. However, the purist in me insists you buy Ladies.) 

<snip>
- -----

Can anyone confirm the above?

Thanks,
Lori

~
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:39:00 -0700
From: Rick and Susan <rnsc@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Questions for a research paper

on 5/29/02 4:39 PM, S M at pianogirrrl23@hotmail.com wrote:
>2) Would someone care to reclassify these albums into different periods? If so
how are those albums unified through the period?
I would move the last album of your classifications into the preceding
period: For the Roses moves to the beginning, and Mingus moves to the
middle.
The beginning moves from "folky" simplicity to the person who is ready to
work more closely with other musicians to get where she wants to go.
Court and Spark marks the tentative beginning of the "jazzy" or experimental
period and Mingus is the deepest plunge into that genre. Not that the studio
albums in the middle period can all be called "jazzy" of course.
The later period contains some of her most "socially-conscious" work and is
coloured, in my opinion. by the stability of her long-term relationships.
That is, the deep and personal exploration of love's troubles seems to be
largely absent.

>1)  How many of you would make the case that Joni's best creative material was
>produced at the 'beginning', 'middle' or 'end' of her career?
For me it's the beginning because I can listen to any of those albums at any
time and enjoy them. The middle is 50-50 (Hejira is unequalled), and most of
the "later" period could be compiled into one, maybe two excellent albums. I
may take a lot of flak for dismissing the later period but this is all IMHO.

>2) Does anyone think that the output
> has stayed at the same level of quality?
The level of quality has stayed high without a doubt, but that doesn't mean
that everything she's done will appeal to everyone equally.

>3) Does anyone think that her
> best material was produced at the beginning and end of her career?
Beginning and middle.

Hope this helps.
All the best
Ranger Rick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:34:48 -0700
From: "Victor Johnson" <waytoblu@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: yet another interesting journey/Christine Lavin (njc)

I'm going to drive down to New Orleans and get really trashed and play on
Bourbon Street and sleep on the sidewalk.  I'm going to do that for five
days and then I have a private engagement at the Taj Mahal palace for two
weeks and after that I'm going to make a guest appearance on the Jerry
Springer show and then I'm going to go pick up Allison  hike the
Appalachian Trail for about two months until jonifest so maybe I'll see you
there unless you want to come.

Victor, stuck at home with a nasty cold





 I still
> haven;t totally healed from Springfest where we got a total of like 12
hours
> all wekend and already you are doing a Jonifest like Nazi music marathon a
> few days later. What's on the agenda for this coming weeks and can we
> come????
> 
> Paz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:41:12 EDT
From: AzeemAK@aol.com
Subject: Questions for a research paper

Apologies if this is a duplicate - I sent it yesterday and it doesn't seem to 
have gone through...

Hello Stephanie,

Taking as read that it's all a matter of opinion, I think your definition of 
Joni's 3 musical periods does hold water, except that I would definitely put 
Mingus in the middle period, of which it seems to be in some ways a 
culmination (not an entirely positive one): the jazz influences that had 
become more pronounced over the previous three were slap bang in the 
foreground; lyrically it was more elliptical than ever - contrast Wild Things 
Run Fast, where the lyrics, by Joni's standards, are much more 
straightforward; and, to these ears, Mingus is the farthest Joni ever got 
away from "easy listening", while WTRF is much closer to that rubric.

When it comes to quality, for me the middle period is streets ahead of the 
others, with the exception of Blue, the transitional work, which sees a great 
leap forward, from "good", "promising" and "loads of potential" to simply 
"great".  From then she was unstoppable through the rest of that decade, 
after which [those of a nervous disposition please avert your eyes] her 
brilliant flame cooled appreciably.  I will be absolutely delighted if she 
scales those artistic peaks again, and given that Dylan and Neil Young, whose 
"fall from grace" was for more precipitous, have pulled rabbits out of hats 
at a time when all but their biggest fans must have given hope, I wouldn't 
bet against it.

My big reservation is about revisiting her old songs - as far as I'm 
concerned, the great creative renaissance ain't gonna come from that 
direction!

Azeem in London

NP: Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left - Ah, would that this fragile genius had 
lived long enough to have beginning, middle and end periods...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alison E <alisone4@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Christine Lavin (njc)

i LOOOOOVE christine lavin, you may or may not
remember when i played her song "artificial means"
last year on the back deck, i was probably pretty
drunk so i bet it didn't sound too good, but...well
nevermind! remind me, i'll play something this year.
anyhow, she is one of the best songwriters ever,
really. she's not only screamingly funny, she's also
incredibly sensitive and endearing and poetic and
amazing. i've seen her live maybe 15 times, and she
never gets boring, always finds a way to make her
songs and shows new and inviting and funny as hell.
and she's a huge joni fan too. and she is truly the
patron saint of folkies, she has furthered more
careers than anyone else in that genre, from shawn
colvin to john gorka to david wilcox. in fact, john
gorka's song "the one that got away" is about
christine. little known (little cared about) folkie
gossip. ;-) i love her, she's right up there with joni
for me.
alison e. in slc
np: david wilcox

- --- Victor Johnson <waytoblu@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Anyway, here's where the Christine Lavin part comes
> in.  It was about 7
> last night and there weren't a whole lot of people
> milling about but this
> guy came up to our tent to find out about why we 
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:31:14 +0100
From: "Grace" <Grace@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: ER NJC

tonight they showed Mark dying. A bit odd as last week he died. Still it was
moving. Mark was excellent in recognizing the damage doen to his daughter tho
i don't really think it was as much his fault as it was that horrible ex wife
of his. Seems to me her ambition was more important than either Mark or her
daughter. Having said that, I am not so sure mark, due to his career, would
have made much of a dad anyway, even if his ex hadn't deserted them. Some jobs
are just not conducive to being there for your children.

I had never heard that version of Over The Rainbow either. was it a man or
woman? Whichever, it was, I hated it. Ruined a poignant scene, imo. Far better
would have been Eva's version.

Somehow we missed a season and I have no idea what happened to Ross and
Hathway. last I saw they were together and she was pregnant. Did they get
beamed up?

grace


- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 21/05/02

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 01:40:16 +0100
From: "Grace" <Grace@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk>
Subject: head/heart

someone, jim I think, suggested Joni's later work was done in her head rather
than form her heart.(if I understood correctly)

The Sire Of Sorrow
Come In From The Cold
Cherokee Louise
Magdalene Laundries
Not to Blame
Tax free
Ethipoia
No Apologies
Night Ride Home
Man From Mars
Sex Kills


are just a few of those later songs that come to mind that strike me as having
been written from the heart. Okay so she isn't banging on about a failed love
affair in most,but the heart, at least a more mature one, feels a far greater
range of grief and joy. Genrally speaking, i guess one could say there isn't
much joy in her songs but then there isn't in most songs.

grace



- ---
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:43:53 EDT
From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com
Subject: A freebie for you (Joni cover)

OK, so the first of June is right around the corner...if you're just dying 
for a Joni cover, there's a new free one to hear by Julian Fleisher, "The Dry 
Cleaner From Des Moines". I think the guy sounds a lot like our own Wally K. 
What do YOU think?

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/julianfleisher

(Of course, while you're on CDBaby you can get copies of Victor Johnson's and 
Kate Bennett's CD's, makes a great graduation and/or wedding gift!) ;~)

Bob

NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "We Laugh Indoors"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:48:38 -0400
From: Vince Lavieri <revrvl@chartermi.net>
Subject: njc Eminem sings!

Someone has to review the new Eminem album, The Eminem Show...

I have just gone through it once and I had all these long and wordy
thoughts I was going to offer but I won't.  I don't think it is as
musically cuitting edge as The Marshall Mather LP or Slim Shady LP, but
it is deeply more personal, less operatic in scope (Slim Shady and
Marshall Mather were two parts of one continual story).

The dude has always plumbed his personal life for his lyrics, but the
tale of his mother's rejection and her various addictions were so
poignant in Cleanin Out My Closet (and may be the first rap to rhyme the
phrase "Munchausen's syndrome").  Kind of tore me up when he rapped,
"Rememeber when Ronnie died and you said you wished it was me, well
guess what, I am dead, Dead to you as I can be."

What is vividly clear is his love of his daughter Hailie.  [Legal note:
it was widely reported off the record in legal circles in Michigan that
Hailie's custody with her father has never been challenged because he is
an excellent, loving father.]  His rap into his father abandoning the
family when Em was a baby, he looks at his own child, and says, how
could anyone leave their child?

And the Em boy stops rapping and breaks into song on Hailie's Song.  He
probably maybe really can't sing despite his super rapper skills, which
makes his love for his daughter more revalatory when he says, "I feel
like singing."  It is the most poignnat song about a parent's love for
their child since Lennon's Beautiful Boy.  (I say that recognizing this
is still a rap song and it has some real rap characteristics.)  I ended
up playing this song over and over, substutuing the words "grandson" for
"daughter" and "poppa" for "father" and other than a portion of the song
that deals with Eminem's former wife, it works pretty good for Gage and
me.

The song ends, "told you I can't sing, oh well, I tried halie, remember
when I told you if you ever need anything, daddywould be right here?
Guess what?  Daddy is here, and I ain't going nowhere, baby, I love you"
and ends with the the sound of a kiss.

I was surprised that Eminem took on big oil and the Bush administration
in Square Dance.  Some of his lyrics reminded me of the anger of late
60s political rhetoric and lyrics.

There are some great beats, really great beats, and I never expected
Arrowsmith's Dream On to make an appearance, and I rank it just behind
Marshall Mathers as a great musical album.

I was stuck that Eminem (who favoirably mentions Prince) shares with
Joni a lyrical style, in that Joni and Eminem never write the very
standard apply to anyone lyric but making it very personal, idiosynric.
(Come one, does anyone sit in a bar and draw a map of Canada except
Joni?  So also Eminem makes his lyrics very particular to him.)

Much of what was objected to (and I think misunderstood) from his
earlier work is absent here, being so much more of a personal album.
However, it is filled with words and phrases that while even Joni has
said them, ie "fuck," Eminem uses them with much, much greater frequency
and in many amazing variations.   Not an album for the kids or weak of
ear to hear.

I hope Mike Y will come out of lurkdom and say more about this abu since
he knows the genre far better than I, and has made much, much grerater
contributions to understanding Eminem than I have or can.

But I will close with this: I think Eminem is a musical genius, the
complexitry of his music and the beats, the brilliant lyrics, the great
wit and human insights, the opeartic way the music and rap work
together.  I had hoped that The Eminem Story would continue the sotry of
Slim Shady and Marshall mathers LPs.  It does not - it goes a different
direction - and it verifies that thee is a true artist at work in this
genre unfamiliar to most of us.  It is easy to dismiss - but this guy is
expressing feelings that are out there held by our kids, and expressing
some of the most personal pain and angst that has been heard since Kurt
Cobain.

Of course as I am picking up people for church tonight, I suddently
remember what wa sin the car cd player - made a quick cd eject!

(the Rev) Vince

NP: Eminem: Superman




The words for Hailie's Song can be found at:

http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.php?sid=%24IxL%FC%5E%D8S

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 03:57:31 +0000
From: "S M" <pianogirrrl23@hotmail.com>
Subject: A continuing discussion and what the research paper is about

Hi everyone!!!I am delighted by the response that was generated by my
research paper.  I really appreciate everybody taking time out of their
day to help me out.  First of all I would like to address some of the
questions posed to me.  Jim L'Hommedieu asked me what I meant by "best". 
I guess best in my dictionary is totally subjective.  Whatever period of
consecutive Joni albums you consider to be your favorite is what is
'best.' Of course there is always a reason why you consider it to be your
favorite, whether it be related to the musics or lyrics.  I realize this
is an incredibly difficult choice for any Joni fan to make, but if you
were forced to make the choice, what would the answer be?There is a
reason behind my sacrifical divvying up of Joni's albums.  James Webster,
makes the case that we tell stories in three different ways; originary,
organic, and teleolgical is what they are called.  Each story valorizes
one period.  Originary valorizes the beginning so for example, if I said
John Smith reached the peak of his intellectual capacities at the age of
two and subsequently his IQ declined throughout his life, this would be
originary.  Organic valorizes the middle period i.e. The Rise and Fall of
Rome.  Teleoligcal valorizes the last period which is Beethoven's story
(the stuff he wrote when he became deaf and before he died was the
best).  What I want to do in my period is 1) prove we still tell these
stories in popular music of today and 2)apply all three of these stories
to Joni's music. Hence, my interest in everyone's opinions.  So if anyone
else would like to chime in, I would definitely be interested.  My
reclassification of albums question was met by resounding agreement on
the fact that Mingus was the culmination of the 'middle' period.  And as
an aside, I hate to apply the word 'end' to Joni's music especially since
she is NOT dead, that is why I try to always put it in quotes.Thanks
againStephanie Morrison

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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 05:14:29 +0000
From: "S M" <pianogirrrl23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Joni Mitchell: The Complete Poems and Lyrics

HiDoes anyone know who wrote the introduction on the inside flap to the
book: Joni Mitchell: The Complete Poems and Lyrics?  I thought it might
be Rex Ray, but that doesn't seem very conclusive.Thanks in advance,Stephanie
Morrison

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------------------------------

End of JMDL Digest V2002 #235
*****************************

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Siquomb, isn't she?