From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #209 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 10 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 209 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: May 10 [les@jmdl.com] tom waits reminder - njc ["Paul Castle" ] a Joni afternoon ["James Phillips" ] Room Opening for Jonifest [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: patti labelle & aging children NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Re: NJC CD Prices and the myth of the "ailing" industry [SCJoniGuy@ao] Re: Re: patti labelle & aging children NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Re: NJC CD Prices and the myth of the "ailing" industry ["Brenda" ] Re: patti labelle & aging children [Alison E ] No More Drama NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Ignorance is bliss, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] nora jones njc ["Kate Bennett" ] "Joni in Fiction" needs a techie [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: No More Drama NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] on hold (njc) [cvickery@danielrealty.com] RE: patti labelle & aging children (NJC) ["Donna J. Binkley" ] the self (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Joni's sexiest songs ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Joni's sexiest songs [Vince Lavieri ] Re: the self (njc) ["gene mock" ] Arthur Lee/Love touring Europe now (njc) ["Kakki" ] Re: Beatles (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] (njc)Hi, all, I'm sorta back and i have a question. [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Beatles (njc) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 03:27:00 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: May 10 On May 10 the following item was published: 2000: "Old-Fashioned Love Songs" - Los Angeles Times (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000510lat.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:03:55 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: tom waits reminder - njc Kate kate@katebennett.com wrote: > tom is absolutely charming!!!! And an "alpha emu", according to this (which I found in the latest edition of Steve Robertson's online newsletter 'Fiddlin' Around' - The Journal of American Roots Music - http://www.starchart.com >> >> > LOS ANGELES, May 3 /PRNewswire/ -- On the night before > TOM WAITS shot his new video for the song "God's Away On > Business" -- from his new album "Blood Money" -- God was > nowhere in evidence when the three emus (a cousin of the > ostrich) originally cast to star alongside Tom were ruthlessly > murdered by coyotes. However, their last minute replacements -- > two males and one female, who each had their own trainer on > set -- were up to the task according to Tom. > "They were chewing up the scenery -- literally. They love > the business." When Waits asked one of the trainers what > emus like, he was told, "shiny things ... like your eyes." > Although emus are known for their aggressive behavior, > Waits was definitely the Alpha emu on the set -- a pair of > four-foot stilts took care of that. Shot at the infamous > Ambassador Hotel in downtown Los Angeles, the video > was directed by longtime associate Jesse Dylan, who also > lensed "Goin' Out West" from "Bone Machine", as well as > shot the covers for both Bone Machine and Blood Money. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ all the best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:06:24 +0800 From: "James Phillips" Subject: a Joni afternoon dear all: So yesterday afternoon, I had house-work I needed to do. I always like to clean etc to music as at least for me, it makes mundaine typical housework housecleaning go a whole lot faster. I decided to first listen to Joni's debut album, Songs to a seagull, as I hadn't listend to it in ages. What struck me about that album is how young Joni sounds and how much more "crisp" her guitar playing sounded, not that it has gotten bad, it just seems like that Martin she used on her earlier albums sounded much better then any of her other guitars (save the VG8 which helped with the tunings problems onstage). Then I decided after that I would put on her more recent studio release "Both Sides Now". You can tell Joni is singing in a lower register then she did years ago just by the remakes of her songs "A case of you" and "Both sides now". Both Sides Now on the Clouds album I believe is in F# (someone verify this for me.) It sounds like on the Both Sides Now album the key is more than likely D (I just know it's lower) Well anyways, it was so strange for me not hearing Joni's magnificent guitar playing, however, for a collection of standards and stuff, her tunings probably would not have worked. But it seems to me that whomever did the orchestral arranging bore Joni's guitar style in mind with some of the string arrangements. I've always loved standards and stuff (I guess what gay man deep down doesn't like standards?) and this album proved a treasure trove of material. I especially liked Joni's interpretations of Stormy Weather, Don't worry 'bout me, and At Last, as well as the revisions of A Case of you and Both Sides Now. Then after the housework was done, the hubby was home, and I was fooling around on the computer chatting on gay.com. I put Joni's Turbalent Indigo album on. I vaguely remember Joni playing on what was it, Lettermen, around the time this was released. Anyways, Turbalent Indigo was so addicting at points I just blanked out from the computer just listening to the album and not paying attention to the chat room. It has that affect on me. The final song on the release "The Sire of Sorrow" I can almost see as a one act mini-play, the way the words are written. I wonder if anyone else has ever thought that. Well I am off to go work out shortly after I have my morning decaf. Take care, James Phillips Urbana IL USA now playing: "Sparkle" by Aretha Franklin - -- Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:34:46 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Room Opening for Jonifest I have a room that has opened up at Full Moon for Jonifest. It is a double with a shared bath. One full size bed, and a possibilty of putting a roll-a-way bed in there. Please let me know right away if you are interested in this accomodation. Thanks! There is still plenty of camping space as well as a few beds left in shared spaces. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 05:40:01 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: patti labelle & aging children NJC > So I got to thinking -- and worrying -- what's next? Carly Simon for > Polident? Graham Nash for Just for Men? Keith Richards for Depends? James > Taylor for Rogaine? Linda Ronstadt for Metamucil? Gracie Slick for the > Clapper? David Crosby for Carter's Little Liver Pills? If I ever see any one of these, I'm going to fall on the floor laughing and then call you up and blame you for casting the ad! :-) btw, has anyone else noticed Shawn Colvin singing background for a Hallmark Mother's Day ad? Something about "I'm smiling because I remembered you." lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:59:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: NJC CD Prices and the myth of the "ailing" industry <> Hey, all I know is what I read in the funny papers! That's why I asked YOU! ;~) Thanks for the detail, Brenda...I know I can always count on you for the real skinny. Bob NP: Laura Nyro, "La La Means I Love You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 08:58:18 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: patti labelle & aging children NJC <> After wading through Catherine's "Shawn Archives", I'm convinced that wherever there's a live mic, there's Shawn. (And that's not such a bad thing!);~) Bob PS: Smurph, I too enjoyed your piece immensely! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:56:08 +0000 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC I think the people on this list (as in almost every reasonably-sized group) are representative of society in general and therefore we include people who are sensitive, insensitive and over-sensitive. In fact, all of us are probably sensitive, insensitive and over-sensitive at different times in our lives, indeed probably every day. For the sake of argument, and because I'm feeling generous today, may I say that I believe the general (default) state of sensitivity of the people on this list is 'sensitive', i.e. aware of the feelings of others and careful not to say anything to upset anyone unnecessarily. However, if we are all assholes at one time or another (copyright Fred Simon, loose summary mine) then equally we are all insensitive at one time or another and the nature of e-mail is such that reflection and reconsideration is backburnered in favour of rapidity and immediacy. Everyone has bad days, causing us to become over-sensitive if we receive remarks which we perceive to be directed against our ideas, opinions or selves. Thus inflamed, we 'naturally' respond in kind and thus the general temperature of the debate rises. Perhaps one way to lower the temperature here at the moment is for the (temporarily) insensitive people to think more sensitively when writing in case they (we / I) touch a nerve with the (temporarily) over-sensitive people. All of us are (or can be) guilty of saying and writing things in haste. No exceptions. HOWEVER, there are some clarifications here: 1. None of the above is intended to say that people may not express their opinions freely, although the principle of free speech does not, as I think Chief Justice Learned Hand once remarked, give someone the right to shout 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre. Express what you want, but moderation, please, in the manner of expression, or politeness at least. 2. I agree absolutely with Debra when she says that a racist remark does not mean the person making the remark is racist. Again, we have temporary states of mind where we say things we don't really believe, or say things without any real factual basis for saying them, or are simply under the influence of alcohol, enthusiasm, medication or psychotropic elements. To say that Britney Spears is a greater songwriter and singer than Joni Mitchell is an idiotic remark, but I hope it would not condemn me as an idiot. It is said that Elvis Costello once said (or is alleged to have said) that Ray Charles was 'a blind ignorant nigger'. This is not the Costello I love and I'm sure it's not what he believes, and maybe it's not even true that he said it. Whatever: if he said it, it was clearly a racist remark but I don't think Costello is a racist on the strength of one remark'. There are remarks and there are remarks, but one slip (for whatever reason) should not normally condemn anyone permanently as an idiot, or racist, sexist or whatever. 3. as someone else said, and I repeat here, one person's point of view, opinion, way of seeing the world etc is just exactly that; that person's pov, opinion etc. It's not a universal truth. Let's try to inform, not insult; let's try to find a common ground, not polarise our positions; when agreement is impossible, as it seems to be in some areas here, let's try to agree to disagree. I do not expect this over-long piece to have serious effect on people's writing styles, nor would I presume to lecture so many outstanding people, but I will at least start to apply these principles to my own writings to the list. After all, 'A journey of a thousand steps starts with a single step'. Actually the quote is not my own writing, as you smartasses will no doubt know ;-) mike in bcn NP Ravi Shankar and Philip Glass 'Passages' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 06:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: Re: patti labelle & aging children - --- Murphycopy@aol.com spake: >So I got to thinking -- and worrying -- what's next? Carly Simon for >Polident? Graham Nash for Just for Men? Keith Richards for Depends? James >Taylor for Rogaine? Linda Ronstadt for Metamucil? Gracie Slick for the >Clapper? David Crosby for Carter's Little Liver Pills? Up way too early, saw this post and laughed my ass off! (Can we say "ass" on this list?) >And what the hell am I supposed to do if I turn on the TV one day and see >Joni doing one of those ads for the greatest hits of the 50s, 60s and 70s >while "Songs to Aging Children" plays in the background? I remember when the Stones did the $12mil. deal w/Microsoft for "Start me up," and Keith gave one of his "Arrgg, we're pirates!" responses. Yeah, but still. . .Maybe what it comes down to is the "no such thing as bad publicity" maxim--w/celeb. endorsements an extension of that. (Considering Dole's endorsements, what's the future hold for other politicians?) On the bright side: Perhaps Pfizer will come up with a pill to counter "Charisma Bypass Syndrome," with a _retired_ John Ashcroft as the spokesperson. More Coffee! Denny "The American public wants tragedy with a happy ending." --Wm. Dean Howells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:16:32 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC Mike, a VERY well-written piece! <> I don't totally agree with this (a nice way of saying I disagree! ;~)); indeed, if this group was simply a microcosm of the world around me, why bother with it? Because we are a group who recognize the artistry of Joni Mitchell, we are a special lot. Like it or not, that's the case. When I told my sister that I was on a JM discussion list, her immediate response was "Oh my, I would imagine that Joni fans are people who feel things very deeply!"...and I think that was a right-on statement. I think we're much more sensitive than the world at large. The world is full of people like Paul IV, but this list is not (thankfully). That's why his blunt and callous treatment of others always stuck out like a sore thumb. So in one regard, you're correct, but as for this group parallelling the world around us, I don't think so. Maybe I just misunderstood your point on it, and like I said, I enjoyed the piece a lot! Bob NP: Laura Nyro, "Up On The Roof" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:21:23 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > I don't totally agree with this (a nice way of saying I disagree! ;~)); indeed, if this group was simply a microcosm of the world around me, why bother with it? Because we are a group who recognize the artistry of Joni Mitchell, we are a special lot. Like it or not, that's the case. When I told my sister that I was on a JM discussion list, her immediate response was "Oh my, I would imagine that Joni fans are people who feel things very deeply!"...and I think that was a right-on statement. I think we're much more sensitive than the world at large. And much better looking! Jerry :-) np: Norah Jones - The Nearness of You ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:38:36 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs Mia, Congratulations on an observant and "right on" post. That song "You give me such pleasure, you bring me such pain, who left her long black hair in our bathtub drain ?", and the whole DJRD album are no doubt the most sexually charged musically and lyrically of her career, IMO too. Another thought that I do not think has been raised yet regards two of Joni's piano breaks - one from "Let the Wind Carry Me" and one from "Down to You", which I feel sexually connected to when I listen to them. Anyone else have that feeling ? Bob S. (off to Paris today) Mia wrote: "Okay, this may be a little dark and I may be the only one in the world who thinks this, but I've always felt that "Off Night Back Street" from DJRD is Joni's sexiest song. Although the lyrics suggest Joni is being tortured, she is flirting with a kind of danger here, which can bring on a sort of intense, dramatic sexual energy. I actually think the music itself(and most of the music on that whole album-Cotton Ave, Talk to Me,etc..), more so than the lyrics, is incredibly sexy!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 07:49:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC - --- Sensitive Mike Pritchard, in his sensitive way wrote: > 3. as someone else said, and I repeat here, one person's point of > view, > opinion, way of seeing the world etc is just exactly that; that > person's > pov, opinion etc. It's not a universal truth. Let's try to inform, > not > insult; let's try to find a common ground, not polarise our > positions; > when agreement is impossible, as it seems to be in some areas here, > let's > try to agree to disagree. > > I liked your post Mike, wise words for certain. I especially liked the part about agreeing to disagree, read: respect what someone else feels and let it go. Mags, who is always sensitive and sometimes 'too' sensitive, who really restrains herself from her own way-too-sensitive knee jerk reactions by not writing as much as she used to ;-) besides, Im too busy packing up my apartment :~PPPPP just read: Last Seen by Matt Cohen...absolutely brilliant Canadian work. now reading: Typing. A Life in 26 keys, by Matt Cohen as well as In the Skin of the Lion, Michael Ondaatje. most recent Joni: Dog Eat Dog...okay okay, it's not THAT bad ! npimh from aforementioned most recent listening... Lucky Girl damn right! > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:53:02 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: patti labelle & aging children My buddy Smurphy writes: > I just can't get used to the fact that so many celebrities I've > admired over the years are no longer young -- and nothing can be done It's better than the alternative. I wish I could have seen Jimi, Janis, Jim Morrison,........ perform even if it was commercial. We have some older celebs performing here in Ft. Myers that I never had a chance to see. Jethro Tull (with Ian Anderson and Martin Barre) They'll be at a small venue singing songs from their just released CD "Living WITH the Past". Jackson Browne will be here in 2 weeks. Styx is playing tonight. Heart will be here in July. Chicago is playing the end of May(although I've seen them twice), and George "Bad to the Bone" Thorogood was just here. So hopefully I'll get to catch some of these concerts! <> I once said a couple of years ago, Joni will be singing "Propecia Plains" :~D As for your post Mr. Murphy, it cracked me up. Thanks for the laughs! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:16:42 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: Humor (njc) >>Every teenager should get a high school education. Even if they already >>know everything. >>~~~ >>Marriage is like taking a hot bath. After you've been in it for a >>while...it isn't as hot. >>~~~ >>I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and >>think, "Well, that's not going to happen." >>~~~ >>If you're playing a poker game and you look around the table and can't tell >>who the sucker is, it's you. >>~~~ >>Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of >>nothing. >>~~~ >>The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an >>argument going. >>~~~ >>Have you noticed since everyone has a camcorder these days no one talks >>about seeing UFOs like they use to. >>~~~ >>You know when you're sitting on a chair and you lean back so you're just on >>two legs then you lean too far and >>you almost fall over but at the last second you catch yourself? I feel like >>that all the time. >>~~~ >>According to a recent survey, men say the first thing they notice about >>women, are their eyes. >>And women say the first thing they notice about men is, that they're a >>bunch of liars. >>~~~ >>Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. >>~~~ >>All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to >>criticism. >>~~~ >>Why does a slight tax increase cost you two hundred dollars and a >>substantial tax cut save you thirty cents? >>~~~ >>I'm not 40-something. I'm $39.95, plus shipping and handling. >>~~~ >>In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is >>weird and people take Prozac to make it normal. >>~~~ >>Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to >>realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. >>~~~ >>There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what >>the Universe is for and why it is here, >>it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre >>and inexplicable. >>There is another theory which states that this has already happened. >>~~~ >>How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole >>box to start a campfire? >>~~~ >>Doctors can be frustrating. You wait a month-and-a-half for an appointment, >>and he says, "I wish you'd come to me sooner." >>~~~ >>You read about all these terrorists, most of them came here legally, but >>they hung around on these expired visas, >>some for as long as 10-15 years. Now, compare that to Blockbuster; you are >>two days late with a video and those people >>are all over you. Let's put Blockbuster in charge of immigration. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:19:49 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Re: NJC CD Prices and the myth of the "ailing" industry On 10 May 2002 at 8:59, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < water. >> > > Hey, all I know is what I read in the funny papers! That's why I asked > YOU! ;~) > Oh, I didn't mean you. I meant the press. They get the quarterly reports and can see that music is up in some of these companies, yet I haven't seen any mainstream paper challenge the notion that sales are still down. Brenda n.p.: Sheryl Crow & Shelby Lynne - "Difficult Kind" - ------------------------------ Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: sensitivity (long, rambling, patronising) NJC Respectfully, I want to add, that after all is said and done, I hope that no one will feel afraid to write, to express themselves, their opinions. If we all stopped talking for fear of hurting or offending someone else, then where would the list be? off to do some errands on a life altering day. love, Mags ever present and especially this weekend: my very own not so little green ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:45:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: patti labelle & aging children rotflmao bob! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Re: patti labelle & aging children - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Must I surrender all these things . . . Keith > Richards for Depends? seems like a good match! >James Taylor for Rogaine? WAY too late. >Linda Ronstadt for Metamucil? i'm not going to be able to eat lunch because of that, thanks very much... > Gracie Slick for the > Clapper? or maybe just for the clap? ooh, bad! > David Crosby for Carter's Little Liver > Pills? again, a day late and dollar short for ol' cros. > And what the hell am I supposed to do if I turn on > the TV one day and see > Joni doing one of those ads for the greatest hits of > the 50s, 60s and 70s > while "Songs to Aging Children" plays in the > background? god forbid, that's the day we all put on the black clothing, the white nikes, and drink the special kool-aid, and wait for the big spaceship to take us to a better reality. don't worry bobby, you and me, we still look FABULOUS! love, and aging kisses, and still getting "courtesy carded" for beer, alison e. in slc np: patty griffin, 1000 kisses CAN WE TAWK about this album??? amazing. Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:27:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: No More Drama NJC Vince wrote: > A reality is that I will always admit when I am wrong, and indeed, > Laurent, you are right, and I was wrong, I did once use the word > "Eichman" but not at all, not in any way, in the way that you implied. Your April 16th post: "Asking the Palestinians to trust Sharon is somewhat akin to 1940s European Jews being asked to trust, say Heydrich or Eichmann. Yes, I am saying that Sharon is a war criminal, for the 1982 massacres" ............"What a hypocrite." Seems pretty clear to me what you're saying, not an ounce of ambiguity. > In fact, the rest of what I wrote was extensively to say that there was > no functional moral equivilance between Sharon and genocide. That is > why it was so far from my mind. There is much desparately wrong with > Sharon's policies, but I said, repeartedly, that they are not genocidal. > You only said that after I picked up on your April 16th post in May. After reading your initial post again, I see nothing along those lines in it. > That said, for the rest, you have not responded to any factual > statements that I made, nor did I expect you to. You must be joking. My May 3rd post was precisely all about rebutting your "factual statements". You're simply repeating what I said. You have attacked me > and my character, you have attacked others, you have atacked so many > people and things fine, go with it, it makes you happy. You are the > expert at dropping words that hate. I read your words and you scare > me. Attitudes like you express only prolong hostilities. I do not have > not have to justify myself to you. Nor does Anne nor anyone else. > Yes after believing you were forgiving and seing how you turned around and attacked me I did question your character. Please do not try to rally others in this, I've only attacked you. (my comment to Anne was a response to an insult). I love it when someone under attack just reverses the argument and points the finger at the attacker. > And, frankly, I have had enough, more than enough, I am done with you. > As long as anyone who disagrees with you is, in your mind and words, > "ignorant" or believes in "simplistic lies" there is no no point in any > type of conversation. I live always in search of new learnings, new > insights, change in what I know and believe as I come to undertsand that > which lies outside my own knowledge. You are someone who says that > those who disagree with you are "ignorant" and believe in "simplistic > lies." Since you have all truth already, there is nothing more to say, > is there? God spare the world from people who have all truth like > you. > Twisting words won't clear you up. I never said one cannot disagree with me. I always welcome an interesting exchange of opinions. I never ASSOCIATED the disagreement of opinion with being ignorant and believing in simplistic lies. Yes I've said all 3 words, but in different contexts. > The JMDL can handle a lot of things but the JMDL is also my home, has > been for a long time, and this exchange with you is wearisome beyond > words. For the sake of this community, I am over and out with you. > > For my JMDL family, through the years we have had extensive pitched > battles in here: Columbine (and guns and all that), Kosovo, the 2000 > election, etc etc. Maybe it is a post September 11 th thing, but I do > not experience that the JMDL is a place that right now at this moment > wants anything else than loving conversation about Joni and about life. > That is what I want, too. I have been doing my job in my own way to > toss out other topics. > > No more drama... Again, I only picked up on your hateful post of April 16th. Because when I see hate and antisemitism I will always denounce it. I would have much more respect for you (or anybody else) if you had the courage to say that you hate Jews. I can live with that, no problem. It's the hypocrisy that I find revolting. Because you try to conceal your hate with nice preaching about love, etc. This reminds me of a story my father told me: in 1945 he spent 6 months in M|nich before moving to France. Germans who passed him in the street could see, even 6 months later, that he came out of a concentration camp. ALL OF THEM would take off their hat when they passed him, and behaved like larvae. Now the house he lived in belonged to a former SS who had moved to the guest house and offered to be the butler as long as he could stay there. This SS man never apologized, never tried to hide his past. My father always told me he had respect for this man. I assure you this has NOTHING to do with disagreeing with my opinions. I am not saying or inferring that people who disagree with me are antisemitic or ignorant or hateful or whatever. This is pure nonsense and if it were true I should be locked up. The truth is there are some antisemites spreading lies in the world. One cannot deny that. Now they've gotten more and more skilled at hiding those true feelings behind various screens, the latest being the poor victimized Palestinians and Sharon the war criminal. (Of course they're victims, but NOT of the Israelis. That's what I've been trying to prove all along. For example did you know that only recently has the Israeli financial contribution to the UN agency for relief of Palestinian refugees been matched by Saudi Arabia?). Anyway, some people who spread those lies do it because they themselves are antisemitic. Other are merely influenced by the repetition and do it out of ignorance. My only goal here is to prevent those lies from being construed as anything else but what they are so they don't infect others. Obviously this is a difficult task, and quite frankly I'd rather be listening to Joni right now than do this. I apologize if I'm sometimes blunt, which makes some people think I'm some kind of a bully. Hey I'm not a professional diplomat. Sometimes I may over-react, sometimes I don't anticipate the various meanings of words. Those who've been following the exchange know I'm sincere and I'm not the monster that you depict. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:03:18 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Ignorance is bliss, NJC > You then replied (in part): > > I'm sorry to hear some people want to stay ignorant. > Were you trying to insult me? Very perceptive of you Anne. Although in this instance and in its context, you were not engaging in the debate, unlike Vince to whom this post was adressed. Conversely, this is absolutely terrific: someone says they delete all my posts on politics without reading and I'm NOT supposed to feel insulted? And when I make an anonymous blanket reply then I'm the one who's insulting and "pompous" (not your word, but Les'). Gee weez where have I been all this time? You didn't have the > courage and integrity to do so directly. I guess > actions do speak louder than words. I'd rather say I had the decency not to attack you personally on JMDL after being insulted in the worst possible way. You didn't say that you were not interested in politics nor in the middle east, which is your privilege. You said that all posts on politics from ME are deleted. So if that's not insulting then what is? I do wish to remain > ignorant of your opinions, as they are just that. I > prefer to get my information from recognized, reliable > news organizations, however slanted you may think they > are. All I ever wish is that people read 1 book before engaging in discussions on subject matters they know very little about. Not that I have the one and only truth. But I just don't feel there is a meaningful dialogue when one side relays the simplistic and often biased info from the media and claims to know what they're talking about. I don't claim to know much about lots of things, and you'll never catch me talking about something I don't know (Ireland, abortion, etc). Again, Anne, you were not engaging in the debate so it's really none of my business which info you chose to get or whether you read posts on subject matters that do not interest you. But yes you insulted me and I replied. Enough said. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:45:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: nora jones njc did anyone watch the west wing the other night?...cool music touch in the shopping mall with nora jones' song playing... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:59:47 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: "Joni in Fiction" needs a techie Hi, everyone: You may remember that last January I proposed the creation of a "Joni in Fiction" section for the JMDL site. Now, thanks to Les and all you alert JMDLers who have found Joni references in books, movies, poetry, plays and on TV, the "Joni in Fiction" section is almost ready. When it's up and running I know that it will be a collaborative effort of which we can all be proud. In fact, I think that even Joni will be impressed if she ever gets a look at it! But before we can unveil this new feature, I need help. Although I have input all the references, etc., I have no Web skills to speak of, so I need a techie to come forth and volunteer to take care the following: 1) For film references; find a link to the Internet Movie Database and copy it into the database. 2) For book and film references; find a link to a purchasing source and copy it into the database. 3) For book, film, and play references; find the graphic online, resize it, name it, input it in the database, then upload it to the site. Please e-mail me off list if you think you can help out. (It would be especially nice if this tech work could be done quickly, since I have taken waaaaaay too long reading the books you've brought to my attention to get exact page references, etc.) Then, Les can set up a password for you and bring you up to snuff on the project. Have a great weekend, everybody. Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:29:0 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: No More Drama NJC blowing...and blowing....and blowing....and blowing...and blowing...and blowing... - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:49:10 -0500 From: cvickery@danielrealty.com Subject: on hold (njc) i was just on hold, waiting on a joint venture partner to find some information for me..... and .....hmmm.... that sounds familiar... what *is* that song.... the bassline... yeah. that's supposed to be a bass and drums.... ugggg... is that a tuba?? da-da-da-da-daaaa-da da-da-da-duh... i don't think you're ready.... AARRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!! "Bootylicious" on MUZAK!!!!!!! some things just aren't meant to happen. _______________________________________ Cindy Vickery Daniel Corporation 205-443-4718 direct 205-443-4615 facsimile http://www.danielcorp.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 15:08:09 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: patti labelle & aging children (NJC) I thought Murph had the right idea, Keith Richards for Depends, it's perfect!! But will he be cognizant enough to wear them.....? db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Denny Giovanetti Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 8:57 AM To: Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: patti labelle & aging children - --- Murphycopy@aol.com spake: >So I got to thinking -- and worrying -- what's next? Carly Simon for >Polident? Graham Nash for Just for Men? Keith Richards for Depends? James >Taylor for Rogaine? Linda Ronstadt for Metamucil? Gracie Slick for the >Clapper? David Crosby for Carter's Little Liver Pills? Up way too early, saw this post and laughed my ass off! (Can we say "ass" on this list?) >And what the hell am I supposed to do if I turn on the TV one day and see >Joni doing one of those ads for the greatest hits of the 50s, 60s and 70s >while "Songs to Aging Children" plays in the background? I remember when the Stones did the $12mil. deal w/Microsoft for "Start me up," and Keith gave one of his "Arrgg, we're pirates!" responses. Yeah, but still. . .Maybe what it comes down to is the "no such thing as bad publicity" maxim--w/celeb. endorsements an extension of that. (Considering Dole's endorsements, what's the future hold for other politicians?) On the bright side: Perhaps Pfizer will come up with a pill to counter "Charisma Bypass Syndrome," with a _retired_ John Ashcroft as the spokesperson. More Coffee! Denny "The American public wants tragedy with a happy ending." --Wm. Dean Howells ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 16:08:21 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs In a message dated 5/10/02 7:39:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Bobsart48@AOL.COM writes: > Another thought that I do not think has been raised yet regards two of > Joni's > piano breaks - one from "Let the Wind Carry Me" and one from "Down to You," > > which I feel sexually connected to when I listen to them. Anyone else have > that feeling? > These piano breaks are indeed incredibly rich and profound to me as well! I well up with emotion when I hear them, but it's not of a sexual nature. What I get is a feeling of poignancy and a sense of the beauty of life and it's depth and meaning, particularly on Down to You. It makes me feel glad to be alive, noble, purposeful, grateful, and proud. Kind of that feeling you get when Pomp and Circumstance is playing or when you hear the Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis, if you are familiar with that. Joni at the piano is one of the greatest pleasures in my life! ken, back in SF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:55:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: RE: patti labelle & aging children (NJC) - --- "Donna J. Binkley" e-spake: >I thought Murph had the right idea, Keith Richards for Depends, it's >perfect!! But will he be cognizant enough to wear them.....? db He might be--but would we know it (the cognizant part)? Arrrrhhhh!!! (or similar Keefian empression) Denny "I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be anywhere." Keith Richards between song patter, anywhere ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:04:20 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs I recall this thread from sometime in 1998, when I was with someone that I am not with now, and how I long to back with that same person. Anyway, my choice for the sexiest Joni songs, having, ah, experience with filling the cd player with so many Jonis, is that the sexiest Joni song is all of them, given the right person and the right circumstances. (the Rev) Vince NP: Mary J Blige, PMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:5:11 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: the self (njc) From "The Indestructible Truth: The Living Spirituality of Tibetan Buddhism" by Reginald A. Ray (c) 2000 Shambala Publications, Inc. "Through the methods of Tantric meditation, one's usual, habitual, ego-centered patterns of body, speech, and mind are temporarily replaced by patterns of non-ego or enlightened body, speech, and mind of a Buddha. This destabilizes our ego's mechanisms. The ego's usual "total lock" on experience is disrupted. One begins to become more and more uncertain about who one is or what one is doing. This provides gaps in the ego's shell, and the Buddha-nature can begin to shine through. The more it shines through, the more shaky and impotent the ego becomes. The more ego-centered conciousness begins to dissolve, the stronger the light of the Buddha-nature becomes. It is a process that accelerates the further it goes along." --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com"Roses wait for the springtime,They sleep beneath the ground.They hear March winds a callin'For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:7:17 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs So...what's the least sexiest song that Joni has??? > > I recall this thread from sometime in 1998, when I was with someone that > I am not with now, and how I long to back with that same person. > Anyway, my choice for the sexiest Joni songs, having, ah, experience > with filling the cd player with so many Jonis, is that the sexiest Joni > song is all of them, given the right person and the right circumstances. - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 19:13:33 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs Victor Johnson asks: > So...what's the least sexiest song that Joni has??? I was tempted to say Smokin' (Empty Try Another) but then again, we were smokin'.... but then again, that is the least swexiest Joni song in my personal experience. (the Rev) Vince NP: Mary J. Blige, Rainy Dayz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:18:11 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: the self (njc) thanks victor, i play handball very competitively and this is so true. now if i can just do as i think--------wow!!!!!!!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: the self (njc) > From "The Indestructible Truth: The Living Spirituality of Tibetan > Buddhism" by Reginald A. Ray (c) 2000 Shambala Publications, Inc. "Through > the methods of Tantric meditation, one's usual, habitual, ego-centered > patterns of body, speech, and mind are temporarily replaced by patterns > of non-ego or enlightened body, speech, and mind of a Buddha. This > destabilizes our ego's mechanisms. The ego's usual "total lock" on > experience is disrupted. One begins to become more and more uncertain > about who one is or what one is doing. This provides gaps in the ego's > shell, and the Buddha-nature can begin to shine through. The more it > shines through, the more shaky and impotent the ego becomes. The more > ego-centered conciousness begins to dissolve, the stronger the light of > the Buddha-nature becomes. It is a process that accelerates the further > it goes along." --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com"Roses > wait for the springtime,They sleep beneath the ground.They hear March > winds a callin'For the sun to come around."vlj Visit > http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:50:44 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Arthur Lee/Love touring Europe now (njc) aleeStarting May 16th through June. I would give up all my martini glasses for a live recording of one of these performances. See here: http://www.nme.com/news/101025.htm Mike in Barcelona, Uncle John in Holland, Phillip in Ireland - take note - they are coming to your neighborhoods imminently ;-) Sighing in L.A., Kakki NP: Tuck and Patti - Manha de Carnaval ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 18:58:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's sexiest songs Vince wrote: > I was tempted to say Smokin' (Empty Try Another) but then again, we were > smokin'.... but then again, that is the least swexiest Joni song in my > personal experience. But it's probably the only nominally sexy song on Dog Eat Dog ;-) Kakki NP: Tuck and Patti - I Will (has to be one of the Beatles more darling-est songs - umm umm) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:50:59 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Beatles (njc) > NP: Tuck and Patti - I Will (has to be one of the Beatles more darling-est > songs - umm umm) I love Allison Krauss' version of this song. She did it for an encore at the Fox Theatre in Atlanta in 1995. Everyone kind of came together on the stage in a small little huddle and played this song. It's also on the "Now That I've Found You" compilation. Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 23:15:18 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc)Hi, all, I'm sorta back and i have a question. Hi, gang, I'll try to read the digests real soon, and jump into some joni-related conversations, but i have a quick question : If one has a car in good condition -- BUT WHICH HAS NOT BEEN SMOG CHECKED (this is in California), can one sell it anywhere on the net/web? Several people have told my main squeeze, Robert, that he *can't* sell the car without doing the smog check but we are desparately broke, and just want to liquidate the car, which is a '81 Buick Lesabre, cream/off-white on the outside, interior steel blue, near-perfect condition, new batterry -- it runs smoothly -- but it hasn't been smog checked in over five years -- it's been in storage. It's huge, but as i say, in near-perfect condition: R's mom bought in new in '81 and in all that time (actually, all of it in the first fifteen years, since it hasn't been run since until now), drove it 51,000 miles. We've been told it's work appx $2500 -- $2000, but we'll take $1000 for it under the table "as is". Any advice and or offer is greatly appreciated. Write to me off-line so as not to bore the others. Thanks, guys. I just found out today that i may have toxoplasmosis in my brain, which would explain my walking like a drunk and not being able to think of words all the time -- or there may be a brain tumor. I should know soon. I'm more annoyed than terrified -- I've got too much crap going on to be terrified. :-) I'll be back in the joni swing of things soon. Thanks and hugs to you all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 20:06:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Beatles (njc) Victor wrote: > I love Allison Krauss' version of this song. She did it for an encore at > the Fox Theatre in Atlanta in 1995. Everyone kind of came together on the > stage in a small little huddle and played this song. It's also on the "Now > That I've Found You" compilation. Yes, I think I've heard her version. What a simple but everlastingly beautiful song. Who knows how long I've loved you You know I love you still Will I wait a lonely lifetime If you want me to--I will. For if I ever saw you I didn't catch your name But it never really mattered I will always feel the same. Love you forever and forever Love you with all my heart Love you whenever we're together Love you when we're apart. And when at last I find you Your song will fill the air Sing it loud so I can hear you Make it easy to be near you For the things you do endear you to me You know I will I will. Kakki NP: The remastered masterpiece Songs in the Key of Life - "As" (one of Stevie's most profoundest songs) "Do you know that true love asks for nothing? Her acceptance is the way we pay. Did you know that life has given love a guarantee to last through forever and another day?" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #209 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?