From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #207 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 10 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 207 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: this list...wrap-up (NJC) [dsk ] Today in History: May 9 [les@jmdl.com] Y Tu Mama Tambien (njc) [Les Irvin ] Re: 'enough' NJC [dsk ] RE: this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) [ReckersL@ebrd.com] [none] ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: Was Tom Rush, now Murray MacLaughlin (njc) [Mags N Brei ] re: poetry ["Garret" ] Re: tom waits reminder - njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Chuck Mitchell's LP [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Shadows & Light DVD [Bob Shemkovitz ] RE: Brenda Russell (NJC) ["Mary E. Pitassi" ] BSN "case of you" [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: NJC Celine Dion [] Re: NJC Celine Dion/Remake/Remodel ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: NJC CD Prices ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Joni in New York [Gerald Notaro ] Hello from Namsos, Norway. ["Vic Phillipson" ] testing 123 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hello from Namsos, Norway.(NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Hello from Namsos, Norway. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC The "Crow" that bites [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC The "Crow" that bites ["Bree Mcdonough" ] the joni-brenda connection... [WARREN901@aol.com] Re: this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 03:12:16 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: this list...wrap-up (NJC) Dolphie Bush wrote: > > As for unwarranted, I do disagree with that statement. Then that is where the confusion lies. I think you had every right to express your anger at what Colin had said, or at how he said it, if that's how you felt. My only complaint was that in your anger you brought in lots of generalizations and things you'd felt before and characterized his entire being in an insulting and completely negative way. It did not seem *to me* that he did the same to you. From what you say, though, you felt that he did, and so you think your response was justified. I'll accept how you feel, Mack, but I still don't see it that way. > While you may say that having your statement called racist and > disgusting is not calling the writer of those words racist and disgusting; I > don't agree. We'll just have to disagree on this point. From my point of view, people are so complex that it's only after someone's consistently done or said the same type of thing over and over that I get anywhere near thinking of or trying to describe their character. So if I respond to someone's statement, it's just that, a response to someone's statement. We'd probably agree that there are ways of saying things that make a comment easier to take, but whether Colin said it "wrong" or you just heard it that way... I don't know. > It might be an crafty way to say it without actually saying it > directly but it still has the same meaning. It had the same meaning for you. It would not for me. > You say that my actions were ugly and hurtful and "that's not fair > fighting." You absolve your friend Colin for any, any responsiblity and > find me completely responsible. I don't know exactly how you feel I should > respond to that but I am assured that however I do respond will not meet > with your approval. I don't know what that means. Do I have to say what you did was ok? Or can we just agree to disagree on some points? > You may find my reaction to Colin bizarre . That is your right. I found your reaction to Colin bizarre because it's not the way you usually come across. > I find your reaction to me not bizarre at all but expected. There seems to be an insult in there, which I think I'll leave alone. > As far as the issue of lurkers, you (infer) that I was trying to be > manipulative and the tactic was not impressive. I was not trying to be > impressive nor manipulative. I am not interested in impressing you nor > manipulating you. I mentioned them because, indeed, they are out there and > are afraid to post. I just find it hard to believe that you know what the 750 or so people who don't regularly write are thinking. If I was one of them, I'd be annoyed at such a presumption as to why I'm not posting. Rather than argue about it, though, I'll assume you meant to say that some people feel as you do and have let you know that privately. Some people feel as I do, too, and have let me know that privately, so... where does that get us? > As for your phrase; my using "big general insults", that is your opinion and > whether you acknowledge it or not, inferred insults that have no place to go > but directly where they were intended are just as effective and just as > hurtful. If I'm understanding this correctly, you felt hurt to the core by what Colin said so you feel your reaction was completely justified, and also felt that you'd already explained your original statement and yourself clearly. Then it must have seemed like I was just attacking you for no reason at all. I can't argue with your feelings, but my intent was not to attack your entire being but just to express how I felt about what you'd written about, yes, a friend of mine. I thought, and still think, it was out of line. So, at this point there's nothing more to be said except that I do appreciate you sharing your point of view. You told me twice to state my opinion. I have done so and have > tried to be as clear and as fair as I could be though I am sure it will not > suffice and, again, I will be the sole one responsible for this latest > problem; at least according to some. I can live with that but that doesn't > make it so. I wish you well and that is sincere. I sincerely wish you well, too, Mack. Thanks for writing. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 03:02:51 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: May 9 On May 9 in history: 1983: Joni performs at Teatro Tenda Lampugnano in Milan, Italy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 01:16:06 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Y Tu Mama Tambien (njc) At 5/8/2002 06:27 PM, Vince Lavieri wrote: >And I thank my God, the God of my simplistic lies, that the biggest >decision that I will make tomorrow is whether I shall see Spider-man >again, or go see Y Tu Mama Tambien again. Haven't seen Spiderdude yet but Y Tu Mama is brilliant! The acting and writing is suberb... highly recommended. Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 03:34:52 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: 'enough' NJC Rosalie Kerr wrote: > > I would bet that any one of you would > feel like you were being called racist if you were told you're words were > racist! It's impossible to know for sure but I don't think so, Rosalie. I think my response would be to wonder why they said that and if I didn't feel I was a racist, try to explain more precisely what I wanted to get across. But, that's in theory. Maybe I would react much more emotionally. I have no doubt about Mack's good qualities. He's shown them clearly in many of the posts he's written. One mistake (a mistake only from my point of view in this case) doesn't make anyone a monster, not even close. And talking about one action isn't villifying, but again that's just from my point of view. Thanks for your input. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:29:12 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) Hi Debra, thanks for your message. I'll put my replies in capitals under your text (not shouting!) 1) ReckersL@ebrd.com wrote, about Colin's behavior: > > ... "having all knowledge" and people being intimidated. You don't mean to have > that effect, you just want to be honest, but the one thing I would ask you > to do is just to have a bit more thought or empathy, before you say > anything, for the effect of your words, for how people are going to feel, > how they may misunderstand your statements of facts-as-you-see-them for > something more aggressive, accusatory. It's impossible to figure out exactly how any *one* person might think and there are 800 people here! Isn't it up to the person who's had the reaction to let it be known rather than ask the speaker or writer to have such all-knowing ESP? Even people who know each other well can be surprised at the other person's reaction. SURE, TRUE. THIS SHOULD NOT MEAN THAT PEOPLE CAN'T AT LEAST "TRY" TO ANTICIPATE THE EFFECT OF THEIR WORDS (THERE ARE ALWAYS 10 WAYS OF SAYING A THING). OF COURSE FEEDBACK WOULD BE BEST, BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO FEEL INTIMIDATED AND GIVE UP THE ARGUMENT (ONE OF THE REASONS BEING THAT IT CAN BE EXTRA DIFFICULT TO DISAGREE ON A PUBLIC FORUM!) 2) I think this is also the point Debra Shea was making. [...] In general, I find the only good thing about facing unpleasant topics is learning from them. Perhaps my attempt to go beyond just Mack's behavior EXACTLY, YOUR COMMENTS, WHICH I FOUND VERY WISE AND WELL ARTICULATED, HELD GENERAL TRUTH AND SUPPORTED WHAT I WANTED TO SAY TO COLIN - - BUT I'M SORRY TO HAVE USED YOUR NAME IF YOU DISAGREE WITH WHAT I SAID TO COLIN, IN THAT CASE YOU'RE RIGHT TO DISTANCE YOURSELF, is what led you to think I was talking to Colin, but Colin's very good at letting his reactions be known (too good for some people's taste), so my comments about being specific and responding at the time don't fit Colin. [...] FINE, AS I SAID ABOVE. I CAN ONLY REPEAT THAT THE ESSENCE OF MY MESSAGE WAS THAT I DO ENJOY MOST OF COLIN'S POSTINGS AND THAT MACK'S COMMENTS ABOUT THERAPY WERE OUT OF ORDER. BUT I THOUGHT I COULD BUILD BRIDGES BETWEEN WHAT I SEE AS BASICALLY 2 DECENT PEOPLE, BY POINTING OUT THAT I COULD SENSE WHERE MACK'S COMMENT ABOUT INTIMIDATION CAME FROM (AND THAT'S NOT THE SAME AS SAYING THAT COLIN INTENDS TO INTIMIDATE) - I DON'T THINK IT'S WRONG TO GIVE POINTERS THAT MAY LEAD TO SOME UNDERSTANDING... 3) > I don't want to be seen in the catholic or right-wing camp because they are > even against contraceptives and I don't share in any way their outlook on > life. Gosh, "they", "their"... you're assuming billions of people think exactly the same way? It's really easy to simplify, isn't it? I know. I'm sure I do it myself sometimes without any awareness of it. DEBRA, THIS IS THE ONE COMMENT IN YOUR REPLY THAT I DID FIND PAINFUL. AND I'LL CONTINUE MY REPLY IN "FRIENDLIER" LOWER CASE. The one thing I would never want to do is generalise, even as a child I refused to join in the telling of jokes about the "Hollanders" (hi John, surely feminists can be sweethearts?!) I said clearly "the catholic or right wing CAMP" i.e. in the context of abortion the camp that agitates against it. I would not want to demonstrate and waive banners, even though I'm instinctively against abortion. The point I was making is that I can't agree with those who think it's such a simple matter of allowing a woman the choice, as if she can do with a baby in her own belly whatever she likes, in the same way as deciding whether to have a tattoo. It's a difficult, painful issue but I don't want to be in the anti CAMP, because I don't like its way of thinking. I don't think that's a generalisation too far, and I'm saddened that you jumped to that conclusion. I made no sweeping statement about ALL catholics (and I never will, because I was raised as one and have met too many good people, one of them being my much loved uncle priest, one of the best people I know) but surely we all know what the official catholic stance (and of those who agree and have joined "the camp") is? Only this morning I heard on the radio a catholic woman journalist (famously anti-gay) make the point that it was immoral for couples with 2 cars to claim they couldn't afford another child. So she was still pressurising people into having as many babies as possible, rather than leaving it up to people to see whether they would be good, motivated parents - not to mention overpopulation! That's the catholic "camp" I was referring to, and I thought it would have been clear. OK, I hope my replies have managed to create more understanding this time. All the best, Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:11:39 +0000 From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: [none] SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: ><somewhat different than the double-CD:>> > >True, and the DVD sounds so much better than the video.. I had a look at ebay for the Shadows and Light DVD and bumped into the Singapore company that Bob recommended. Only thing is I'm not sure about Region 1 which seems to play in US and Japan. What about Europe? Can anyone help me on this? Thanks, Raffaele (lurking in London) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 03:36:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Was Tom Rush, now Murray MacLaughlin (njc) - --- Kakki wrote about her close encounter of the Tom Rush kind: <<< years > ago. McCabe's is very tiny - a music store with a small performance > area in > the back. While I waiting for Clark looking through the sheet music > I > looked up and there he was! He's gorgeous, gorgeous in every way. > I > bought his latest CD that night and he gave me a flirty look and > asked if I > wanted him to sign it. Ah, yeah! ;-) > > The show was incredible. I just wish Joni would have jumped in the > car and > come over that night!>>>>> Kakki, I know EXACTLY what you mean about Tom being gorgeous in every way and I do know what you mean by that look :-) Me too! I was hoping for Joni to show up at Hugh's again, which is part of why I went!...alas, was not to be. Again, Tom's performance was incredible! Jmdlers, if you have the opportunity to go and see him, do it! You won't regret it. I just wish I hadn't been so shy. I would have asked him a lot more than I did. Tom is very open and willing to tell stories..which in fact are what his songs are all about. Story telling. Life writing. Thanks Brei for encouraging me to go to an experience of a life time ;-) Mags np: the cbc ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:49:35 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: Re: poetry Sondra, i loved your poem (straight down to business for a change, eh? i'm trying to keep it BRIEF) i really really loved it!! IT's definitely one for my journal:) Right up their with the best of them. I have to be frank, i think it is the most honest thing you've ever sent me, while being the most abstract at the same time! I loved it! It is certainly in a class different to the pieces you sent along previously. it was very, well, it was very:) (yea, thats the end of my sentence). I've never read anything i've written publicly; i think it's great that you are doing that:) Maybe someday we can do that together. I have lit a candle for you, in the hope that you get into that class you so desire:) I guess you must have finals now and are probably a little bogged down, so don't stress about replying to me soon! MY news (briefly): i've had no life for bout a month- into the library just after 8am and going home at 9.30pm; leaving only for food and exams:) That's why i've not be in touch ((SORRY)) I've had eight of the ten exams now (seven in the first five days no less). I have no doubt that i passed, in fact, i'd say i honoured the exams overall, but i'm not entirely satisified with my performance. I was not fully prepared for any of the exams, and you know, that's not like me. The exams were earlier this year than before, so i had less time to study. The only exam i felt satisfied after this year was Stats, lol!! I feel that had i had a little time more to prepare my mind would be at ease. My usual attitude has abandoned me; since i don't feel like i performed to the best of my abilities, i am not satisifed (and big headed as this sounds, that has never ever happened to me before!). In one exam i actually made up the answer,lol. My friend helen always comes out of exams and says "oh, i just made it up", well, i always thought that was just a phrase, but in my research methods paper i had to make up an answer:) I guess i wasn't prepared enoough, coupled with bad luck! you know my opinion on the shortcomings of examination systems, need igo on? But you know, no worry, there's still Joni and Patti to listen to:) I've written a few things lately too; taking a very different approach to subject matter, i've furthered that run-on-ranting style of "the ritual"; it's becoming increasingly common in my writing. but you know how long they tend to be:) so i've not chosen one of those this time!! also, i'm sending antoher attempt at a sonnet (from 2000). ________________________________________ April 16th 2002 Likeness of mind endeared her to me Wisdom worth nothing, smiles free Advice, safe, sound, sang silently Ingenuity in art. prolific, led by muse Commercial adventures- integrity- never amuse Lack of integrity- ingenuity- never excuse. Insoluble near insuperable to live with a saint Her shortcomings, so fragile, tasteless, quaint In an age of irony her irony is feint. The one day all allowed change. Man in the dark, he knows her so well That girl in the mirror lied Friendship gone missing, changed, things strange Led by lust, lost, quickly fell Lips in chill, quiver, have dried This change of heart, quick, minds derange Long stories cut short, quickly tell Each in the dark, no friendship, cried. ________________________________________ Right now, it is gone. Right now it is gone. Lost in disbelief I want to passionately louder sing "oh mother, please, listen to my calling." Eve invented kiss; now i'm lost in grief Without hope, kiss-less; hide in a room, brief Hope lost for good- a time-told tale. i'm falling. Then stop and back on. Mind had screamed "no thin- king.let me forget; normal wants, not grief." My outspoken mind has wants; be normal, Wake up, cheered, without problem- a wish deep Inside scarred heart. Does great good our small Prayer do? Deal with that loud mind, not sleep. This war, tug of power, is solitary bane To me. And i will not play a war game. 05.05.00 ________________________________________ Love and Luck GARRET ps- i loved your poem so much!! can i show it to my friend? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 12:13:18 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: re: poetry i'm sorry about that last e-mai;. It was meant for a friend:) whoops GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:08:25 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: tom waits reminder - njc And of course he was wonderful. Dave really digs Tom, he's been on there a number of times, and always gets "chair time" as well as "air time". Thanks to Jody I've already listened to & enjoyed "Alice" & "Blood Money". Don't own them yet, but that will change this weekend. Funny how I was able to catch Tom on Letterman...I typically would NEVER stay up that late, especially on a Weds. night but Nathan was playing in a state baseball tourney game (which they won 8-4) in Charleston & didn't get home 'til around 1AM, so I was waiting up for him. Or should I say "Waits-ing" up for him... ;~) I did nod off during the commercials, however... Bob NP: Nilsson, "Nevertheless (I'm In Love With You)" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:25:17 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Chuck Mitchell's LP If anyone is interested, here's Chuck Mitchell's "Combinations" LP, with a cover of "Circle Game" (bet Joni LOVED getting THAT royalty check! ;~)) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=868809018 Bob NP: Nilsson, "Don't Forget Me" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:31:50 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Shadows & Light DVD Hello, listers, Last night I had the pleasure of viewing the Shadows & Light DVD. What a great show. This was not my favorite period of Joni's career, but I thoroughly enjoyed the program. Joni looks great and sounds fabulous, clearly having a ball with the material. There's no stage banter, but you can tell she has a great rapport with the band and with the audience. The conceptual films elevate this program to something more than just a concert documentary. The coyote, the skaters, and that haunting sequence for "Amelia" really add to the enjoyment of the event. Someone here posted that "Raised On Robbery" may have been dubbed. I'm glad to report that there is no dubbing. I viewed this particular track carefully four times to make sure. For one thing, Joni's lips are clearly visible for almost all the lyrics, even in the wide angle shots. Sound and picture match up perfectly. In the third verse ("We had a little money once...") there MAY be a one-or-two-tenths-of-a-second lag in the sound-to-picture synchronization, but this is just a simple (and common) post-production flaw, NOT an indication of after-the-fact dubbing. The aural evidence agrees with the visual - the song is one continuous performance, without any hitches, splices, changes in tonality or dynamics. In short, it's a true live-to-tape performance without any editing tricks. And a great performance it is, too! As for the sound of the DVD, I can't speak for the 5.1 audio, but the sound through my two-speaker set-up was great. The highs are sharp and clear, the lows and mid-range are warm and full, the balance is good, the mix is just fine. All in all, a great DVD. Go get you one! You'll enjoy it. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:44:48 -0500 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: RE: Brenda Russell (NJC) Kakki and Sherelle, I had the chance to see Brenda Russell in concert in Milwaukee in the summer of 1988, and I jumped at it. I loved "Piano in the Dark," although, at the time, as sort of a guilty pleasure: I somewhat snobbishly regarded it as more "pop" than music I usually listened to. However, it almost perfectly captured a certain, rather sad moment in my life then (long story). Years later, I still love that song, with, I hope, a lot less snobbery. At any rate, Brenda wasn't even the main attraction that night, if I remember correctly, but I went to see her, not the performer she opened for. And she was great: warm, gracious with the audience, and put on a wonderful show. Kakki, I envy you the opportunity to hear her perform more often. And Sherelle: a heartfelt "ME, TOO" to one line in Kakki's post. I'm absolutely thrilled that you're coming to Jonifest!!! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 07:47:18 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: BSN "case of you" hi all! OK, so i had *lost* my BSN CD for a few months after packing up (having decided to finally ditch the infamous "collector's box"--yuck!--what a marketing scam, IMO) and i think what i had done was to put the actual CD in some random extra CD case, figuring i'd remember where it was -- nope! anyway, so i found it yesterday. phew! and while i was playing this record, i noticed one small thing, a vocal phrasing, that i thought was interesting. in "a case of you" there is a moment where i could swear joni is borrowing a bob dylan sound, or kind of like she is "doing" dylan's specific voice (like she does in BYT sometimes-- i.e. "heard that screen door slam"). it comes during the line, "you taste so bitter BUT you taste so sweet" -- i hear it almost like she is talking-singing the words (is that right?) and the "but" sounds like it goes up and then down, in this funny-sounding swoop, for emphasis i guess. to me, it just sounds like a bob dylan moment! does anyone else hear that? so, now that i typed this out it appears not to have a WHOLE lot of value, but hey! happy thursday. - -- emily ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:24:07 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: NJC Celine Dion Hi! I think that was me who asked for a brief review of Celine Dion songs. Thanks for the very brief overview. What would you say to someone to convince him/her to buy it? joseph (interested about celine dion all of a sudden) > dear list: > > Someoen had requeted that someone from the list who had gotten Celine's > new album yay or nay it. Well, I got it last weekend at Kmart, and > listened to it so much it drove my husband up the wall LOL. I think it > is a group of well written well sung well produced songs. > > FYI I do like Celine. I can't understand for the life of me some of > the anti-Celine sentiment I have observed since coming back to the > list. > > James Phillips Urbana IL > > now playing: "It's a Man's World" by Cher > > -- > > Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:24:46 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: NJC Celine Dion/Remake/Remodel I think she has potential to make a good album, maybe if Frank Zappa comes back from the grave and produces her record and writes some songs for her. Shake her up a bit, you know? Or maybe if the Pet SHop Boys produce her record. I think she would fair well with a quintet or quartet, nothing but bass, drums, a real Piano, guitar, and sax a la Gato Barbieri and NO Cheesy VOCAl effects and you would have a powerhouse album. We could all smile at that. Blair NP:"the Samurai in Autumn" the Pet Shop Boys- RElease, their new album is growing on me, slowly but surely. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:09:03 -0500 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Raffle Dear Listers: I have taken the liberty of writing to the entire list because some of you may want to send something to the JoniFest to be raffled off even though you do not plan on actually being there in person. For those listers who do intend to attend, this missive is very important. As you know we had a raffle last year and raised a wonderful sum of money for Jim to continue his efforts with our site. This year all proceeds to to Les to aid him in his efforts with the site. Neither of our friends is paid for their wonderful labors...and I do mean labors...of love they put into our Joni list. Time for the Fest is drawing near. Ashara has not received one item for the raffle. We realize that many of you plan on bringing your raffle items with you to the Fest. However, it would be helpful to know just what those items are by June 1. That notwithstanding, if you intend to mail your items to Ashara, we would like to have those items sent to her by June 1. We make this suggestion because there is a tremendous amount of planning which goes into the Fest and if you can make our duties a bit less worrisome it would be greatly appreciated. So far we have nothing and I am getting rather concerned. Now believe me, I am a great one for procrastinating. I even procrastinated writing this particular missive. But now is the time folks. Show us that Joni spirit and either send raffle items to Ashara or let me know what you intend to bring. If we do not have enough raffle items, Ashara and I will be buying some things off of EBAY with our own money to guarantee success of the raffle. Enough said. This is just a kick in the butt missive. :) Thank you one and all for your support. Love and Peace...Sharon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:26:28 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC CD Prices >got Sheryl Crow...(I love most of her previous stuff) even though I'd heard >this new one was given a thumbs down by critics...I hate to badmouth anyone >but I've only listened once to this cd because it really irritated me all >the way through...so many cliched ideas & songwriting...I thought perhaps >she was just throwing out a cd to fufill a contract, then I learn it was #2 >on the billboard charts! I like Sheryl Crow....but this new one.. forget it. Cliche ridden is right. What a flop....a disappointment. I think it is now #1. For a myriad of reasons.....she appeals to older people...such as myself and to younger people as well. I have a niece and nephew who like her stuff...and I'm sure both of them bought this new one, too. It is so dull and flat.....I'd put your heartfelt CD up against this one any day. Bree >******************************************** >Kate Bennett >www.katebennett.com >sponsored by Polysonics >Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: >http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html >******************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:40:16 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Joni in New York From New York Magazine, 5/6/02: On originals like Just Another Parade and Show Me a Love she is still singing and strumming in the shadow of her idol Joni Mitchell, complete with confessional lyrics, decentered tempos, and fretless bass lines. Mitchell, who committed jazz heresy when she released a collaboration with Charles Mingus in 1979, is not nearly the jazz singer (Cassandra) Wilson is, which only heightens the frustration of hearing Wilson denying us the thing she does best. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:47:34 +0200 From: "Vic Phillipson" Subject: Hello from Namsos, Norway. Just a short note to say Hello to the list. I am Vic Phillipson. I am an American, living in Norway, working in Germany. I ran into the JMDL doing a Google search for the lyrics to "Man is the Sire of Sorrow". I want to use the piece in a show that I am producing...don't worry, I pay my ASCAP fees. So, Hei fra Namsos, and Greetings from the Frxzen Nxrth! Vic Phillipson www.phillipson.de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 09:32:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: testing 123 sorry, seem to be having computer send/receive problems...lets see if this shows up...(virus check says I am okay, thank goodness) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:15:46 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Hello from Namsos, Norway.(NJC) In a message dated 5/9/2002 12:51:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vic@phillipson.de writes: > I ran into the JMDL doing a Google search for the lyrics to "Man is the Sire > of Sorrow". Yayee! Google search does it again! Glad you found the JMDL Vic. Welcome to the list, and good luck with your show. Jimmy, an American living in Florida wishing I was in cold weather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:19:15 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hello from Namsos, Norway. Hi Vic, Hello back to you from the "boiling" South, and welcome to the JMDL! I'd love to hear more about your project and your usage of Joni's song...don't worry, I'm not an ASCAP officer. ;~) And while you're in Norway & Germany, if you happen to stumble across any Euro-covers of Joni songs, please let me know. I DO know she has LOTS of fans over there. Bob (in South Carolina USA) NP: Nirvana, "Downer" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 13:25:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC The "Crow" that bites <> I concur...after what I thought were 3 strong records, she comes out with a turd. Luckily I bought mine at Best Buy for $11.99, and sold it on E-Bay for 12.50! :~) I would add once again if you're looking for something in this vein to check out Shannon McNally's "Jukebox Sparrows". Many artists can come out with a "hat trick" (3 fine records in succession), but a run like Joni had is evidence of her talents. Bob NP: Nirvana, "Hairspray Queen" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:44:50 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC The "Crow" that bites >I concur...after what I thought were 3 strong records, she comes out with a >turd. Luckily I bought mine at Best Buy for $11.99, and sold it on E-Bay >for 12>I would add once again if you're looking for something in this vein >to check out Shannon McNally's "Jukebox Sparrows". Well...I have a brother who loves Cheryl Crow...and his B-day is coming up soon. ;-) Staring and salivating is one of his biggest reasons he is drawn to her in the first place. NO. He's not quite that shallow. He really digs her music......he likes more hard-driven....her style etc. and her sweet ballads.... Bree >Bob > >NP: Nirvana, "Hairspray Queen" _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:19:46 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: NJC The "Crow" that bites speaking of ballads, when i heard her do safe & sound at the tribute to nyc on tv, i loved the song...when i heard it on the cd it sounded overproduced... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 14:39:43 EDT From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: the joni-brenda connection... i confess ...it was me...i'm the one who mentioned brenda russell in a recent post. she appears on NRH singing vocals with joni on " ray's dad's cadillac."( rock-n-roll in the dashboard romance in the back of ray's dad's cadillac.) i didn't realize brenda had fans among the joni-ites !!! glad to hear her efforts are appreciated. i did a search on aol and there are several sites about her, it has certainly renewed my interest... much joni-brenda, warren keith p.s. kakki, you best go see her the next time you get the chance , i should be so lucky... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:49:20 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) ReckersL@ebrd.com wrote: > > DEBRA, THIS IS THE ONE COMMENT IN YOUR REPLY THAT I DID FIND > PAINFUL. AND I'LL CONTINUE MY REPLY IN "FRIENDLIER" LOWER CASE. > I said clearly "the catholic or right wing CAMP" i.e. in the context > of abortion the camp that agitates against it. Oh, I see. Yep, I missed that little word so thanks for pointing that out. I'm not even sure, though, that everyone in the camp thinks exactly the same way, although if you're talking about demonstrators outside an abortion clinic all holding signs that say baby killer, then yeah I guess it could be said they're all thinking the same way and that you would not want to join them. But probably most of those anti-abortion demonstrators wouldn't think that killing doctors who perform abortions is ok, so right away there's some variation in thought even among the camp. I'm not saying all this just to pick apart your words and certainly don't want to cause any pain, and am sorry that my earlier words did. It's just that your words show me how impossible it is to explain one's own thoughts by talking about the (imagined) thoughts of other people or groups. Which doesn't mean it should never be done (and I have a feeling I'm about to do it myself very soon), just that it's a chancey way to get one's ideas across. As far as abortion goes, I doubt that there's any person who would not have mixed feelings, including sadness, at having an abortion. It's one of those issues that's much easier to accept in theory, especially when it's someone else who will be making and living with the actual decision. And, as a generalization, just because someone's not sharing how they feel about something (or at the time not even admitting the feelings to her or himself if they're too painful), that doesn't mean the feelings aren't there. That's what I've experienced myself anyway, not specifically regarding abortion, but with other issues. Thanks for your message, Lieve. I hope I've not muddled it all up too much. I understand what you're saying and it's clear from your tone that you're a kind hearted person who's trying to explain your view, and in response I'm just trying to explain mine. It's always hard to tell from my limited viewpoint if it's been successful. atb to you, Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:34:51 EDT From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: sexy joni..( sexy sadie's long lost cousin !) call me tortured,but i'm going to have to third mia and donna on "off night backstreet." it is one of my favorite cuts from DJRD. i have always thought the music to the song was incredibily sexy, and those lyrics... " you bring me such pleasure, you bring me such pain, who left her long black hair in our bathtub drain ?" and don't get me going about those stunning vocals, joni is the best at vocal phrasing. even from the beginning joni has had a jazz sensibility to her vocal phrasing, i'd even go as far as to say that her music in general was influenced by jazz at the get go. another sexy song to me is " blue boy." alright so i'm a glutton for pain but what a beautiful song. i'm especially moved by the last few lines "...here he comes after midnight to find her again, he will come a few times more ,till he finds a lady statue standing in a door..." chilling, to say the least. well i'm going to go have a good cry. ( a big boohoo !) feeling sexy, warren keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 18:36:27 -0400 From: "S.M. Roque" Subject: "The Last Waltz" - TV Guide's Pick of the Week 5/11-17 I got my copy of TV Guide on Wednesday and was pleasantly surprised to see a little photo of Joni and Neil Young in the "Now Showing On Video and DVD" department. Their "pick of the week" is "The Last Waltz"... By the way, I've got to agree that the sexiest Joni lyrics are from Coyote on Hejira...I get excited just hearing: "...He picks up my scent on his fingers While he's watching the waitresses' legs..." However, her sexiest delivery has to be of the Centerpiece lyrics from HOSL, Harry House/Centerpiece: "...The more I'm with you pretty baby The more I feel my love increase I'm building all my dreams around you Our happiness will never cease 'Cause nothings any without you Baby you're my centerpiece..." "Centerpiece" written and composed by Johnny Mandel and Jon Hendricks and published by Caphryl Music ASCAP Copyright 1958 Sylvia http://forums.delphiforums.com/JoniMitchell/messages?msg=59.1 _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 18:26:40 -0700 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: NJC CD Prices and the myth of the "ailing" industry On 8 May 2002 at 12:57, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Hiya Brenda, > > Glad to see your posts again! Question for you, since you're so > closely involved with the music biz: I read in the RS that the #1 > selling CD sold a lot of its units because the label was offering $2 > rebates to the dealers, and the dealers in turn dropped their pricing > to $8.99 or so, and in turn sold a lot of units. > > Do you see this as a trend? I've been encouraged to see some new > releases (Joe Henry, John Mayer and some others) at a $7.99 or so > price tag. I know the CD business is ailing and just wonder if the > prices for CD's are going to FINALLY start to lower a bit to generate > traffic & sales. Whaddya think? > In the mid-90's major labels started doing "breaking artist" campaigns. New releases were generally priced in the $8 - $9.99 range. The campaigns were generally executed in specific markets and in indie stores and chains like Tower and Virgin. It was very specific to new artists because no one wanted to open the flood gate that was put up by MAP (minimum advertisted price - a policy that was intended to keep indie retailers from being put out of business by the big box sellers like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. who were using music as a loss leader.) I think you are seeing the lower prices across the board because MAP doesn't exist anymore. And everyone is fighting for chart position, so the campaigns at retail are getting more competitive. By offering the $2 rebate, the label not only insured a lower, more attractive price, but also got retailers to take more copies, which influenced the positioning of the record in the store. (The retailer will put the CD's in a prime location so they can move the units.) I think the trend is that music is going to sell at a market rate driven by volume and there will be a wider range in prices. Hot pop, hip hop and country artists that ship a lot of units and new artists that gain momentum will be under $10, while evergreens and specialty titles like jazz and blues (which ship fewer units, therefore less marketplace availability) will be priced at $12-14 (although list prices may still be at $16, 17 or $18.98). It's funny that the myth of the CD business ailing is still carrying water. I know the RIAA released numbers that sales were down for last year, but reports for Warner (and I believe Sony) both had sales up nearly 5% for the first quarter of this year. Also there was a report released by Jupiter that file sharing actually helps CD sales. (Wilco's "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" has been available on the net for a year and debuted on the chart at #13.) Funny too, that the year that Napster was shut down, the industry actually saw a drop in sales. Now that the Napster alternatives are thriving, sales are up again. I think the story that CD sales are suffering is a ploy to keep the industry's agenda front and center with ongoing proceedings in Washington and Sacramento. My prediction is that ultimately the profit for popular recorded music will be driven to zero and that the price will be "feels free." Although music will still be sold on CD's (particularly and profitably by the indie craftsmen, like Kate and others on this list who are their own cottage industry; God bless 'em!), popular music (that's sold in the millions) will be delivered as a part of a service (like cable) and won't be a per unit transaction. There are those who lament that if labels can't make money off of CD's then music won't get produced. It will, but the funders will be different. They will be the companies that make money in a related way - computer hardware/software manufacturers, electronics companies, disk drive and disk manufacturers. They'll take a similar view of CD's that Walmart and Best Buy does - loss leader to get people in stores or buy gear. More artists are also publicly acknowledging that they take the same view as well - CD's are there to help them sell tickets or earn publishing income. Elvis Costello and Pink (how's that for two ends of the spectrum!) have made similar comments in the last few weeks. Please understand, I don't think the value of music is decreasing; but the value of those shiny, supposedly indestructible disks certainly is. BTW - I know it's been mentioned once here, but if you listen to internet radio, please visit http://www.saveinternetradio.org/ and if you're in the U.S. and feel so moved, send a letter to your rep. Brenda n.p.: Melanie Doane - "I Can't Take My Eyes Off You" - ------------------------------ Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 21:55:03 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Brenda Russell (NJC) Dear Mary, How wonderful that you got to see her in concert. I am also touched by her personal story. She is a survivor of the business. I respect her greatly. And what a prolific songwriter! I went to one of her websites and was very moved by her struggle to stay alive in the music business. In my opinion, she was being counted out by the powers that be who feel they have the ultimate wisdom of who does and does not have talent. Yet, she survived simply because of her desire to sing and to create. She collaborated on as many projects as possible to keep her dream alive. She is a tremendous role model for surviving the music business in spite of the odds. She is also my inspiration for wanting to collaborate with as many artists as possible. Her love for music kept her going. She could not stop even if she wanted to because it's in her soul. By the way, thanks for your support and for making me feel special! Love, Sherelle In a message dated 05/09/2002 5:46:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, blckcrow@chorus.net writes: > Kakki and Sherelle, > > I had the chance to see Brenda Russell in concert in Milwaukee in the > summer of 1988, and I jumped at it. I loved "Piano in the Dark," although, > at the time, as sort of a guilty pleasure: I somewhat snobbishly regarded > it as more "pop" than music I usually listened to. However, it almost > perfectly captured a certain, rather sad moment in my life then (long > story). Years later, I still love that song, with, I hope, a lot less > snobbery. > > At any rate, Brenda wasn't even the main attraction that night, if I > remember correctly, but I went to see her, not the performer she opened > for. And she was great: warm, gracious with the audience, and put on a > wonderful show. Kakki, I envy you the opportunity to hear her perform more > often. > > And Sherelle: a heartfelt "ME, TOO" to one line in Kakki's post. I'm > absolutely thrilled that you're coming to Jonifest!!! > > Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 22:07:35 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: the joni-brenda connection... Dear Warren, Thanks for "fessing" up! I was really intrigued at the connection as well. It just seems so fitting that Joni would have someone like Brenda Russell collaborating with her. it just feel right! Wouldn't it be great if they worked on another project together? Sherelle In a message dated 05/09/2002 11:39:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, WARREN901 writes: > i confess ...it was me...i'm the one who mentioned brenda russell in a > recent post. > she appears on NRH singing vocals with joni on " ray's dad's cadillac."( > rock-n-roll in the dashboard romance in the back of ray's dad's cadillac.) > i didn't realize brenda had fans among the joni-ites !!! glad to hear her > efforts are appreciated. i did a search on aol and there are several sites > about her, it has certainly renewed my interest... > > much joni-brenda, > warren keith > > p.s. kakki, you best go see her the next time you get the chance , i should > be so lucky... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:17:52 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Y Tu Mama Tambien, NJC I just saw this movie again tonight, and was more blown away by it the second time than I was the first, maybe because this time I knew the story and was able to concentrate on the script and the various stories behind the story. And I am frustrated as hell because I have no one to talk about the film with, and to my knowledge, only one other JMDLer has seen the film - and he loved it too. This is not a movie that I would Mom to for a Mother's Day outing unless Mom likes a hugely adventerous story line that features a frankness and directness (ok, sex, and dialogue, be advised, very direct) that you will never get out of Hollywood, with more levels of meaning than I have ever seen in a movie. It deals with so many things - there is this whole political/economic thing that goes on in the background of a lot of scenes. It deals with the search for what people really want out of life, and what they miss and what they reject even though it is exactly what they want. There are lines in it about truth and personal mythologies that are so good, next time I see it, I am bringing a notebook and pen. This is the best film that I have seen in a long time. I sure wish a lot of folks would go see it this weekend so we could get a thread going. Y Tu Mama Tambien makes reference to the Mexican province of Michoacan, which sounds a lot like the word "Michigan" and I understand there are strong linguistic ties between the languages of the native peoples in Michoacan and the Pottawatomees of Michigan. And that is my clever segue to: Seeing the previews there must be a lot of scenes in the new Jennifer Lopez movie, "Enough," that take place in Northern Michigan, home to our beloved Suze Cameron, so if you want to see where Suze lives, that would be a movie to see. From the previews, I saw what looks a lot like Petoskey and/or Charlevoix, as well as what was definately the Mackinac Bridge. And Suze, while I have your attention, were you ripping your sofa apart at your house as I was at my house during the last 3 minutes of the Red Wings hang on to dear life victory over the Blues? Wow. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #207 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?