From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #203 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, May 8 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 203 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Norah Jones and Ravi Shankar NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Today in History: May 8 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: May 8 [les@jmdl.com] Re: NJC Stones [FredNow@aol.com] Joni's sexiest song (no serious content) [Gordon Mackie ] Re: Missing #128; Brenda Russell (ref. Warren K., Bree M.); [] cure?NJC [colin ] Re: Brenda Russell (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Please allowink me to introducink myself [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Brenda Russell (NJC) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Strife - njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Sedaris as Billie - NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] Greetings from another Joni fan ["bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com" ] Was Tom Rush, now Murray MacLaughlin [Murphycopy@aol.com] Lost direction: Mine, not Joni's (Was, Please allowink. . .) [Denny Giov] Re: Greetings from another Joni fan [Jerry Notaro ] joni mentioned on leno [Murphycopy@aol.com] Scaragon NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Re: Greetings from another Joni fan [Bob Shemkovitz ] Fwd: 57 things every rock band should know! (njc) [jan gyn Subject: Norah Jones and Ravi Shankar NJC Randy wrote >>Did anyone catch Norah Jones? I had never seen her before, liked her quite alot. Ravi Shankar's daughter (!). Grew up in the states....don't know what the story was on that...I picture him on tour with Aerosmith, a drunken night with a groupie....hasn't Ravi been married to the same Indian woman for, like 95 years? Anyway, Norah was cool, and Ravi's other daughter, Anoushka, (Norah's half sister), << Is this right that she's Shankar's daughter? Stranger things have appeared on the list lately but this news intrigues me. mike in rainy and stormy barcelona - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:17:27 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: May 8 On May 8 in history: 1996: Joni is honored in Sweden with the 1996 Polar Music Prize. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/PolarPrize96.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:17:27 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: May 8 On May 8 the following items were published: 1974: "Joni's Prize Blooms" - Sounds (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/740508s.cfm 1979: "Music, Message at Antinuclear Rally" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Concert, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/790508lat.cfm - -------- Can you type? http://www.jmdl.com/typing/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 04:32:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Stones Vince Lavieri writes: >Julius, I look at your list and I see all these outdoor venues, and that >is great! (Wonlt choke on the smoke...) But then I see that 9-16 date >at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago - anybody out there, does that place >hold 2,000 people? Or less? Maybe less. I'd really like to hear the Stones in a small room like that. I haven't been to the Aragon for about 32 years, last time was Jefferson Airplane headlining and Blue Cheer opening. No seats, all open space. Lots of black light, incense, pot, acid. A lifetime ago. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:40:07 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Joni's sexiest song (no serious content) Dear All Re Joni's Sexiest Song, I'd plump for 'Willy' every time....but I would wouldn't I..fnar Actually, it is quite direct in its sexual content...giving 'his seed to her' is fairly direct but are sex and sexiness the same thing. I think not...so its back to the drawing board...What about I 'Had' a King, or 'I don't know where I stand' ( surely a reference to upright coitus), Down to You ( not upright coitus), Sweet Sucker Dance ( now what can I say), Man to Man and who could forget Shiny Toys (buzzzzzz),and last but not least, Passion Play.(yes please). That's enough bad puns for one day) Im working on the principle that since sex sells everything, you'll read my message. Ciao bambini ( lets not go back to that one again) Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:34:14 +0300 From: jop Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles > Yes, the in between songs chatting is restored (at least for the most part). > I know the Paint A Starry Night, Again bit is back in, but I'm not sure all > of the talking has been restored. I just listened to it the other day, as > part of my Spring ritual (I have to drive around the countryside, blasting > MOA on one of the first great spring days). This past Sunday, was that day, > and I really recommend this event to everyone - or at least people who have > to deal with real winters. Those first few perfect spring days are almost > like a religous experience, and MOA is the perfect soundtrack. > > Anyway, back to the question. If I recall correctly, there are still a few > tidbits missing from the re-released cd, but I don't know for sure. For > example, I can't recall hearing the Joni, You have more class bit, but it > might be there. it's on my cd at least. i have the u.s. hdcd with red sticker on front. i have the double vinyl taped straight on a cassette and i noticed the track lengths don't match. the cd is about 30 seconds longer than the original vinyl. most tracks are longer on cd, taking into account that track marks might be in different places on cd and vinyl. strange is that "blue" is on vinyl about 3 minutes (with the audience noise included) but on the cd it is 4.23... also "love or money" (or the cheering after the song) goes on much longer than on the lp. this can only mean the cd still doesn't have absolutely everything from the vinyl, but on the other hand there are some bits included that didn't appear on the lp. at least the "starry night" and "more class" bits have been restored, the rest might be audience noise. - --jussi .. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:38:26 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Missing #128; Brenda Russell (ref. Warren K., Bree M.); I like her song "Get Here" as popularized by Oleta Adams. She also did an outstanding duet with Oleta in the CORRINA CORRINA soundtrack. Her "Justice in Truth" and "Dinner With Gershwin" are very very polished examples of popular music. joseph np: clementine "ils et elle" > Bree wrote: > >> >Brenda Russell, she's great. Compliments Joni perfectly on NRH! Do >> >you know much about her? Where is she? How did Joni find her? > > Tim wrote: > >>And I don't think I've heard any more about, or from, Brenda Russell. > > She performs here in L.A. all the time, usually at Rusty's Surf Ranch > in Santa Monica. I keep meaning to go see her and if I do, I'll give > you a report. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:42:33 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Missing #128; Brenda Russell (ref. Warren K., Bree M.); It also has "Piano in > the Dark," which I had hitherto thought had been recorded by Roberta > Flack, but something I read seemed to indicate that it was original > with Brenda Russell. Can anyone here confirm or debunk that? Anyway, > while "Kiss Me With the Wind" was in heavy rotation for those few > weeks, I don't think I ever heard it on radio after returning > Stateside. And I don't think I've heard any more about, or from, > Brenda Russell. yes. "piano in the dark" is a brenda russell original which was later reworked by jazz musician george howard. she has this album called "rain in paris" and its quite club-y but it bears her distinctive vocals. people usually mistake her for another gifted musician patrice rushen. joseph np: clementine: "l'etoile du bonheur" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 04:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Tom Rush - --- Julius Raymond wrote: > "...probably the only man alive that should be allowed to sing Joni = > Mitchell songs..." The Chicago Tribune > > That's from the Tom Rush website. I'm going to the Mill Valley show > on = > Wednesday with an urge to hear "Urge For Going" live. Looks like he = > could be coming to a theater near you. > > and now me: I saw Tom Rush recently in Toronto at Hugh's Room and he is incredible in concert. I met him during the intermission as well as after his show. He is warm, gracious, down to earth and very funny! What a performance!!! He is the quintessential performer...that guitar of his made sounds that I've never heard before! When Tom did Circle Game, a hush went over the room like a warm blanket on a cold winter's night. You could hear a pin drop...and then you could hear a soft chorus ... everyone was singing along and it was such a special moment. Afterward, I thanked Tom for all he had done for Joni and I told him all about the list and that he has many fans here too. I do have pictures, jpegs, so if anyone wants to see them, please write to me off list at pholden@iprimus.ca and i will forward them ;-) it was a night to remember . Hugh's Room is a fantastic venue. Tom did the Murray Maclaughlin song, Child's Play and there wasn't a dry eye in the house. Murray was right there, front and center and I thought that was a wonderful moment too. I could easily imagine that night back in October when Eric Anderson performed and invited Joni to come up on stage at Hugh's. Imagine! Mags dreaming July dreams ;-) ===== You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:08:34 +0100 From: colin Subject: cure?NJC it seems to me that there is much information around now about the eefects of abuse and some knowledge of mental illneeses like bi polr disorder. i get the impression tho that many popel think that therapy sessions undo all the damage done by the first and a pill cures the second. not so. all that therapy does is, good therapy, teach one how to cope with the da,mge, not undo it. that is not possible. i thought it was and that was my expectation when i went into it. it was a bitter realisation that cure was not possible. as for bi polar disorder, i think perhaps many people don't understand just what it is. it used to be called manic depression. glad it isn't now becasue most people, in my experience, think that it means one is depressed all the time. not so. what it does mean is mood swings. those mood swings vary in intensity. the highs: this is a feeling elation, of strength, of invinceability. lack of sleep, raopid thought and speech, disjointed. it can invlove delusions, like thinking you are Christ, or in my case, the devil, or some other eprson. It does NOT necessarily happen that way(it was along time ago I had that delsusion and it was broguht about by the religon i was invloved at the time). It can casue inappropriate behaviour such as dancing on a ,motorway with nothing but your briefs on(yes did that), spending sprees, weird beahviour generally,it can be very diffiscult for others to follow the thought pattern. It can invlove terrible memeory, like phoning a friend 6 times a day to repaet exactly what you told them in the previous phone call or waking your partner up to talk about whatevr fascinating thing comes to mind at 4 am, or just getting crazy ideas and flirting with policemen. This is followed(or preceeded) by depression which can range from confusion and lethargy and fear to suicidal tendancies, if not actual attempts and success. between these their can be 'normal' times tho it is very difficult for one who has the disorder to have any real idea what 'normal' is. Pills and therpay combined, help they do not cure. they take the edge off the highs and lows. And pills can be dangerous and worse than the disorder. I have had pills that gave me cirrhososi, heart problems, a=hallucinations, terrible panics, sickenss, bowell probs. death is not an infrequent side effect. so the choice is not a good one. the one i take now(after years of refusing) is okay. I hope!(possible side effect-death thru blood disorder) The cycle between these mood changes can be hours or days or weeks or months. Mine used to be months but now is much more rapid and less severe. Although I am more aware now of when these changes take place, it is often not until I am well into it and usually only during the downs. the highs are not obvoiius to me cos I feel good and don't give a shit about anything. I am aware it is a difficult thing for other people to deal with.(also confusing I am sure) And it is scary for them to. It si for me.not knowing if I will survive the next down. I want to thank people for their suppport. espially Jim(lama) for his kindness. He GOT it. His message showed to me that he understood where I was. I have condradictory feelings about myself. I want to be treated like i was normal and yet at the same time want my handicap to be recognized. and that just opens up a whole can of worms becasue that recogniton can be used to dismiss my thoguths and expressions 'with well he isn't well'. trapped bewwtween a rock and ahrd place. Final thing: i have had people use the word courage in relation to me and my struggle. It isn't courage. it is fear that keeps me going, that keeps me looking and delving and working. It is fear that makes one run from fire, not courage. so the work i put in is due to fear-i don't want all that pain, thank you. i don't wnat to go back to those obssions, the compulsions, the self harm, allt he crazy thinsg i did so the only way not to is to work. That isn't courage. The courage is in the people who care and who have and do love me. Right now, i feel flat but calm. that is good. Roller coasters are good at funfairs but to be on one everyday......... (I do not speak for any other sufferer-each exoperience is different) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:22:19 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Brenda Russell (NJC) If my memory has not failed me, I remember seeing her first as a Star Search winner. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 08:47:33 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Please allowink me to introducink myself <> Thanks for the intro, Denny, and welcome to you (again). Wonder if you could expand upon your "weirdness" comment...I wouldn't say that Joni "lost" her direction with WTRF, but rather that she changed it. I feel like she intended S&L to be the "closer" to that series of projects (HOSL/Hejira/DJRD/Mingus), and that she went where she wanted to go with it. Plus, Mingus took her SO far away from commercial viability (and airplay) that she wanted to re-enter the marketplace, thus the addition of the "Steve Lukather" sound. Remember, at the time of WTRF, Toto's "Africa" & "Rosanna" was ALL OVER the airwaves... And I don't say that to imply that Joni was being derivative, only that she was assimilating the sounds of the day in order to be "introducink" herself back into the mainstream. Loved WTRF when it came out, still do! By FAR the best of her 80's work. Looking forward to hearing more outta ya. Bob NP: Neville Brothers, "Sands Of Time" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 06:45:34 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Brenda Russell (NJC) Thanks Brenda & Timothy......I had no idea she was a songwriter. I love that Oleta Adams song. I always assumed Oleta wrote "Get Here" Bree >The album "Kiss Me With the Wind" came right after her biggest release, >"Get Here" >on which she re-recorded "Piano in the Dark" and had a huge hit with it. >The title >track, "Get Here" is probably her most well known song thanks to Oleta >Adams' cover >of it in 1990. > >Brenda > >n.p.: Hassan Hakmoun - "Layla Layla" _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 07:15:03 -0700 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Strife - njc >I don't get it and maybe I never will. I wish people >would just get along, but maybe that's not possible. >There are times I think I should just slit my throat >and get it over with. But not today. I think everyone can relate to this sentiment. >Everyone has an opinion about something but it's just >an opinion. I don't think there is any one "right" way >of thinking or acting, but there seems to be a >multitude of wrong ways. Life is a minefield. Stepping >stones? or sinking sand? Stepping stones on sinking >sand? (It all comes down to Joni, and evidently, she >kicked the maid; and Jesus lost it in the temple.) This is when I realized that Joni,was indeed, HUMAN. Thinking about your post on strife....life is a minefield etc.. There is something better....for Ms. Spears has told us so: Expressing her views on heaven......"Everyone is at peace and happy and they all hop around from cloud to cloud." "And an old man with a long white beard wanders around-------that's God." Geez....I can hardly wait!! Bree ( wondering if this rain will ever let up) > >______________________________________________________________________ >Games, Movies, Music & Sports! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:15:39 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Sedaris as Billie - NJC I just had to comment on this one with my own parody-ruining-the-real-thing experience. But first, I have to add a "me too" to thinking of Sedaris as brilliant, hilarious and a bright light in a sometimes dreary world. Mark - your "it nearly made me pee my pants" comment was right on target. Have any of you ever seen Les Ballets Trockadero des Monte Carlo? They are NOT from Monte Carlo, but what they are is the funniest blend of physical humor and talent you could ever hope to see. It is an all-male ballet troupe out of New York and their send-up of classical ballet is something to behold - replete with tutus and dancing on-point. They just kill Swan Lake. They performed in Boston a few years back and I keep asking when we can bring them again. They have an uncanny ability to zero in on what can be funny about something that is not intended to be in the least bit funny. When the Royal Ballet of London performed the full-length version of Swan Lake last June it was glorious and the most fluid, poetic and inspired version of an old warhorse that I have ever had the privilege to see. But when the quartet of swans went prancing across the stage, head jerks and all, I could only giggle. I will never be able to see that without laughing. What a gift. If you ever have a chance to see the Trocks, do yourself a favor and go! Maggie Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:19:01 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Introduction +, njc really at this point In a message dated 5/7/02 8:36:27 AM, mark.travis@gte.net writes: >> >My favorite version [of 'They Can't Take That Away From Me'] is a radio >> >aircheck of Billie Holiday singing it with >> >the Basie band. It swings and Billie, of course, is divine. > >> Are you sure it isn't David Sedaris? >> -Fred > >LOL! Thanks for the chuckle this morning, Fred! I have heard Sedaris >do 'The Oscar Mayer Weiner Song' a la Billie and it nearly made me pee my >pants. >Mark E in Seattle Sedaris is brilliant (his book, "Me Talk Pretty One Day," is incredible), but he's almost ruined Billie for me. He's so dead on that when I hear her I picture David. Have you heard his rendition of Billie singing Madonna's "Material Girl"? Oh, man ... - - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:22:35 -0400 From: "bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com" Subject: Greetings from another Joni fan Hello, JMDLer's. I'm a fellow Joni fan, relatively new to the list, and glad to have found this community. Like many of you, my favorites encompass those first nine magnificent albums - even today, those warm opening notes of I Had A King are all I need to be transported back to a youthfulness of exploration and discovery and possibilities. I find Joni's early verses especially to combine beautiful heights of poetry, poignancy, and romanticism, free of manipulative sentimentality, always accessible to the heart and mind without ever condescending to the dictates of commercialism. Anyway, I'm writing today just to say hi in general, but also to thank persons unknown on this list who alerted those of us who were unaware of the availability of the Shadows And Light DVD from Barnes & Noble's website, www.bn.com. Normally, I avoid Barnes & Noble like the plague because I do not wish to give the slightest monetary support to the right-wing politics of their ownership. But in the case of a Joni rarity that I've been unable to locate elsewhere, I had to make an exception. It arrived this morning, so I'll view it this evening when I get home from work. According to the info on the back of the box, it's a 75 minute program with a set list that's somewhat different than the double-CD: 1. Shadows & Light 2. In France They Kiss On Main Street 3. Edith & The Kingpin 4. Coyote 5. Free Man In Paris 6. Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 7. Jaco's Solo / The High & The Mighty/ Third Stone From The Sun 8. Dry Cleaner From Des Moines 9. Amelia / Pat's Solo 10. Hejira 11. Black Crow 12. Furry Sings The Blues 13. Raised On Robbery 14. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 15. Shadows & Light At $41.84, it's a pricey item, but one that I consider a must-have. I've noticed that DVD's go out of print unexpectedly, so I was glad to be able to scoop this one up while it's still available. Unfortunately, I have deleted last month's digests, and don't remember who it was among you that mentioned the availability of this item, but to You Know Who You Are - Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:55:47 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Greetings from another Joni fan Hello, again, listers. It looks like my employer didn't set this account up to give you my name in the "From" line. I think I've got it fixed now. Anyway, the name's Bob, and I'm the one who wrote about receiving the Shadows And Light DVD. I'll post my impressions of it tomorrow for those of you who might be interested. Glad to be with you all, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:56:22 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Greetings from another Joni fan Welcome, Bob! <> True, and the DVD sounds so much better than the video...I guess it depends on the system you're playing it through though, and my VCR was an el-cheapo. I love the Jaco's solo portion, wish it would have made the cut for inclusion onto S&L way back when. Same for "Raised on Robbery" which the crowd really goes nuts for, especially after the more introspective jazzy numbers. There's also a Japanese seller on E-bay who you can buy the DVD from, they ship incredibly quick and sell it for $29.99 + about $5 shipping, that's how I got mine and I would certainly recommend them. You don't have to have an E-bay account, you can get to their "store" through the listing on E-Bay. Now if only the DVD would have included Joni's piano version of "Last Time I Saw Richard"... Bob NP: Randy Newman, "Rider In The Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:04:41 -0500 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Joni's sexiest song Mia i agree with you on that one too. I had forgotten how much i loved DJRD. "I can feel your fingers touching my face....there are some lines you put there and some you erase." Donna - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mia ortlieb Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:51 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: re: Joni's sexiest song Okay, this may be a little dark and I may be the only one in the world who thinks this, but I've always felt that "Off Night Back Street" from DJRD is Joni's sexiest song. Although the lyrics suggest Joni is being tortured, she is flirting with a kind of danger here, which can bring on a sort of intense, dramatic sexual energy. I actually think the music itself(and most of the music on that whole album-Cotton Ave, Talk to Me,etc..), more so than the lyrics, is incredibly sexy! Next, I would have to go with "Lucky Girl" from (I know, I know) DED. Mia _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:11:48 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Was Tom Rush, now Murray MacLaughlin Lovable Mags writes: << Tom did the Murray Maclaughlin song, Child's Play and there wasn't a dry eye in the house. Murray was right there, front and center and I thought that was a wonderful moment too. >> Murray MacLaughlin!?! Now there's a name I haven't heard in about a quarter of a century! What ever happened to him? I was a big fan in the early to mid 70s, but then he seemed to drop out of the picture. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:17:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Denny Giovanetti Subject: Lost direction: Mine, not Joni's (Was, Please allowink. . .) - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com e-queried: >Wonder if you could expand upon your "weirdness" comment...I wouldn't >say that Joni "lost" her direction with WTRF, but rather that she >changed it. IAWT. What I'd meant to say, but, overcome by stress (from the latest carrot-and-stick method for getting Stones tickets) and perhaps a high vodka-to-OJ ratio, was that _I'd_ lost where _she_ was going. There were some (myself included) who couldn't understand the thumbs-down response to Mingus (tho' I've never claimed to understand the pop market at all, or I'd have invested a couple of k a few years ago in someone named Brittany). Re: Mingus, the mix of standards and really wonderful songwriting, the performances; and the overwhelming sense of a performer needing to extend her horizons, when most were content to count their royalties, and court a larger fan-base. Jumping ahead to WTRF, I was pretty jazzed (no pun, please) to hear that her next project would include The Police, at the time a big band in our house. Joni'd always appeared to have a great affinity for bass (from Stills on STAS through Jaco--I'm writing pre-WTRF here), so the idea of her songs, voice _and_ rhythmic sensibilities paired with what was at the time a very adventurous band, I was, well, you know. That said, I still like the LP, tho' like her '80's stuff, it doesn't see the light of day that much; but the sound was a surprise, certainly more radio-friendly than expected. And then there was/is Lukather's guitar sound, which lends itself to a whole 'nother potential thread--my previously mentioned "sonic Joni," of synths and other "sounds of the day", to wit: IMHO, the timelessness great writers possess can be intruded upon by an element reflecting the mode of the day. I read (either on JMDL a few weeks ago or in the JM Companion) that songs on HOSL sounded dated. I think it has more to do with selected instrumentation rather than the songs themselves. (In the case of HOSL, the electric piano washes underneath her voice with a certain coldness that adds to the distance of some of the performances. Whereas Robben Ford's guitar, sparse as it is, is warm and intimate, and I think, remains current.) Similarly, Jaco's rubberband bass on Mingus sounds anemic compared to the way he played on the Mingus songs on S&L; just fuller, more tightly focused (I recall DownBeat's reviewer going after Jaco re: Mingus, asking, "Where's the bass?"). But I go on. . .Perhaps the one thing I learned viz. '80's Joni is, just because an artist goes in a way I appreciate doesn't mean that, at some point, she's not going to go another way. Her own. Amen. Thanks for the bandwidth. Denny (getting ready for the madness that is trying to get Stones tickets. Sigh.) NP: Dave Holland, Not for Nuthin' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:29:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Greetings from another Joni fan SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Welcome, Bob! > > < somewhat different than the double-CD:>> > > True, and the DVD sounds so much better than the video.. Couldn't agree more. I got mine about a week ago. The 5.1 remix is far above par. Most remixes from that era are simple stereo in front and reverb in the back. Not so with the Shadows and Light DVD. It is true 5.1 Dolby Digital. Being able to see and hear so clearly I noticed a couple of things. Most of Raised on Robbery seems to be dubbed. There are no close ups of Joni except while her mouth is covered by the microphone, and the medium shots look suspiciously unsynched. Though redubbing is fairly common, I was surprised. Also I finally recognized who was in the clip when Joni does her Black Man Drag. It has always been uncredited, but I recognize it as Amelia McQueen from the filmed version of Ain't Misbehavin', the musical that made Nell Carter a star. If you have a dvd player and a six speaker set up, you will be dazzled by the sound. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:37:36 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Greetings from another Joni fan "bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com" wrote: > At $41.84, it's a pricey item, but one that I consider a must-have. I've > noticed that DVD's go out of print unexpectedly, so I was glad to be able to > scoop this one up while it's still available. Unfortunately, I have deleted > last month's digests, and don't remember who it was among you that mentioned > the availability of this item, but to You Know Who You Are - Thanks! That was me. You're welcome:-) And the availability of most of these type is very limited. If anyone is interested, get yours now, either from B&N, politics withstanding, or from ebay. Those that have gotten them on ebay report the guy is very good to deal with and ships quickly. Jerry np; Maureen McGovern - Bring Back My Dreamer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:37:17 +0700 From: pyramus@lineone.net Subject: Joni VCD Hi everyone. I am currently in Thailand, travelling. Today I purchased a VCD copy of Painting with Words and Music in Krabi. Obviously I can't play it at the moment as I am on the road. Does anybody know anything about this? I know it is on DVD and Video but didn't know there was a VCD version. Is is legit? Packaging seems o.k. Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 11:46:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni VCD pyramus@lineone.net wrote: > Hi everyone. > > I am currently in Thailand, travelling. Today I purchased a VCD copy of > Painting with Words and Music in Krabi. Obviously I can't play it at the > moment as I am on the road. Does anybody know anything about this? I know > it is on DVD and Video but didn't know there was a VCD version. Is is legit? > Packaging seems o.k. You have to be careful of these things. VCD is not DVD quality, or anywhere near it. It is about par with VHS on a disc. It is a common format in the Asian parts of the world, because it can be copied so easily and quickly, unlike DVD's. If you are familiar with Quicktime or Mpeg4 technology, it is similar. Most dvd players do not play VCD's. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:50:07 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: joni mentioned on leno Carole King and her daughter, Louise Goffin, were the musical guests on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno last night. After performing, they sat down with Jay and he asked Louise what it was like growing up with Carole for a mother. Louise mentioned traveling through England on a bus with "James Taylor and Joni Mitchell, who drew pictures of my sister and me." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:55:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Scaragon NJC The Aragon is a small place in Chicago. My guess is that it holds less than 2000 people, but don't know for sure. It's a pretty crappy place to see shows, actually. Really poor sound. A friend of mine saw Tenacious D there a few weeks ago, and no matter where in the place he stood he could barely hear anything. Locals often refer to it as the Scaragon. The famous Green Mill blues club is just around the corner, I'd personally skip the Stones' Geritol tour and head there instead. RE: Julius, I look at your list and I see all these outdoor venues, and that is great! (Wonlt choke on the smoke...) But then I see that 9-16 date at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago - anybody out there, does that place hold 2,000 people? Or less? That is a very interesting piece of scheduling. It looks like NYC and LA gfet the same type of 3-concert schedule that Chicago does - indoor arena, outside ball park, and a small venue. Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:02:41 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: this list, the world and EVERYTHING (NJC) I've been a JMDLer for a year now, and have only posted about 4 times or so, each time starting with something like: "I'm basically a lurker, wishing I could write more often, but I'm too busy" and I suppose that's still true, although I've since been to two JMDLers mini-gatherings in London, written personally to a number of people and signed up for the next Jonifest. Compared to those of you who've been here for years, I still feel humbly wet, but still the list has firmly become a part of my life, even if in fact I did not want that to happen - almost like falling in love without wanting it! So yes, this message is in the first place intended to be a declaration of love to all of you. This list is fantastic. And I'm so grateful to new technology (which we so often blame for causing pollution, alienation etc) to have created this new dimension, this new way of being able to relate to other human beings. As a child, I thought "progress" would be robots and space travel. I never thought it would be so human and intimate, a completely new way of making friends and getting to understand other people. In fact I started on another list, another musician I had just discovered. First, such a list scared me. There is this vast dark space with unknown people who can read your words and may or may not come out of the dark and show themselves to you. They can misunderstand you. They can turn nasty. And sometimes they did so. But I was delighted to find how friendly and trusting most people could be. Then, as I was delving back into Joni Mitchell's music, I discovered the JMDL but decided I could only find time to be a lurker. I never expected to be drawn in like this! As others have said, this is the most precious, intelligent, humane, funny, honest group of people I've ever encountered. It's a community. We are experimenting with tolerance, political and artistic debate, understanding and supporting each other, and I think it's wonderful. But sometimes a person gets hurt and I hate that, especially because I've come to understand and like the people involved, both sides. I hope I don't sound terribly patronising and I don't want to flog a dead horse (as Susan said!), but there are really some things I feel I have to take the time to write (and I hope enough of you will take the time to read!) about keeping the precious good we've got, and avoiding piling up destructiveness. To keep this message as digestable as possible, I'll just number the different things I want to say (that's what happens with lurkers: they store up too much for too long!). 1) I've seen so many wonderful postings, insightful or funny, that don't get any response, probably because people are too busy or too shy or feel they can't add anything sensible... and sometimes the writer will comment afterwards "well it seems like no-one noticed" which is definitely untrue, although it's so normal to feel that way. I just want to remind those people that they have probably made quite an impact on quite a number of people, even if they never heard of it. They may save themselves a lot of upset if they keep that in mind. And it takes confidence and trust to do so. 2) I totally second John Van Tiel's message (even though he did not list the qualities of the Belgians :-) !) and would just like to add the following observations of my own: COLIN: yes I have loads of respect for you, and like John I would love to meet you. You're honest and you're brave. You have thought deeply about a number of subjects, obviously because you have experienced so many difficult things yourself. But I do understand where it comes from when Mack states about "having all knowledge" and people being intimidated. You don't mean to have that effect, you just want to be honest, but the one thing I would ask you to do is just to have a bit more thought or empathy, before you say anything, for the effect of your words, for how people are going to feel, how they may misunderstand your statements of facts-as-you-see-them for something more aggressive, accusatory. I think this is also the point Debra Shea was making. (I experienced this myself some time ago, Colin, when I mentioned that compared to the rest of Europe, I found the mentality in the UK quite insular, and I quoted the newscover on the BBC as an example. You disagreed with a virtual one-liner which I felt was not trying to understand what I was saying but just trying to have one up on me, and I decided to leave it at that and not answer back, because I felt it was not a fertile exchange of ideas. You probably did not mean it that way, but that's how it came across!) And one last thing, Colin: please never say things again like "I know I am bad, my parents were right, that's why they abused me". We all know you did not mean it, you meant to shock, but it was so unnecessary! Everybody on this list must be full of sympathy for what you have gone through, and admire you for how you have got through it, and understand how difficult it may still be. But don't use this as almost emotional blackmail when someone disagrees with you! Please Colin, understand what I say, don't take this as another attack on you, I say this with love: we love and respect you too much for you to resort to this! (and no, I can't imagine what it's been like, but I will always have enormous respect for it!) And on a lighter note: congratulations with your knitting fame. (To answer another unanswered question discretely: 25cm in my case :-) ! ) I do count on meeting you one day! MACK: We did not start off well, you sent me a negative response of which I can't even remember the details. I also think your reply to Colin about therapy was out of order. But I have developed a deep respect for you, ever since you wrote that heartfelt message about being worried about discrimination at work and in your home town, and the circumstances that kept you there. I'll always like you for that. This is what is so great about this list: we're family. I may not like everything my brother does or says, but he's my brother and I feel for him. By the way we share our problems and feelings and by the way we accept each other, we make this community real. But Mack, don't have too many prejudices! You know yourself how awful it is to be judged because you're gay. So don't you think it would be better to be open to France and the French (and any other nation) than just to declare you would not care to go there? OK, maybe I'm being patronising now, but I would suggest that we ought to be open to everything this world has to offer, that we should want to meet as much diversity as possible - but I agree, it's your choice, brother! LAURENT: When I saw your first pro-Israel (or anti-Arab) messages I was surprised they were tolerated on this list. Not that I thought everything you said was wrong (in truth, I disagreed with most as it was all too selective, part truth), but from my experience the issue is so explosive that it could easily destroy the list. It's been a cause of argument between me and a close friend for many years (him being completely against Israel and therefore me defending Israel to some degree, while seeing both sides) to the extent that we've agreed to totally avoid the subject, and even now with everything that's going on, we'd rather discuss the price of rhubard than mention the dreaded subject. I was inclined to do with your political messages what some others said they do: delete without reading. But slowly I've come to appreciate you too. You're sincere and are open to have anything you say questioned, you encourage dialogue, I've got to appreciate that. I must say I don't know the truth about the Middle East, it's too confusing and it gets worse the more I hear, maybe I envy your certainty. I also think you got a bit more stick than you deserved. For instance (and I fear the stick coming down on me now) I did not think the profiling message was racist. You did not say: only arab men do wrong in the world. You said: only (or mainly) arab-type young men carry out the sort of attacks for which airports etc could profile people. So this is not to disagree with Vince (my good friend) that white people caused the holocaust, or that grannies can kill babies, or that middle class women can poison their husbands, but we're talking about checking here for suicide bombers on airoplanes and the like! And no, it does not reassure me, when I have to catch a plane, that out of political correctness just as many grannies and smurfs as young men of middle eastern appearance have to be searched! So I think as some other people (Susan, Catherine McKay) said: let's not jump at each other over every word, every joke, every opinion someone expresses, because it's so easy to misunderstand what's behind it. Let it sink!!! So to end this long point 2 if you're still with me by now: I like you all, all of you who seem at each other's throat. The words in common are: you are all honest people trying to express yourselves in an honest, vulnerable way. You come from different experiences and have completely different outlooks, but I have real respect for all of you. Please don't give up on each other or on our family! 3) Lastly, and now I'm really sticking my neck out: abortion. To state first: I am totally non-religious, in favour of freedom where it comes to lifestyles, sexual orientation etc, and I'd call myself a feminist. But try as I may, I cannot put abortion into the "freedom" or "feminism" category. I remember, as I'm sure John VT does, in the early seventies the slogan "baas in eigen buik" in Belgium and Holland, which means "boss of your own belly(stomach)" and yes, it sounded so right. Women in charge of their own body. It fitted in with women being allowed to use contraceptives or having sex before marriage. Then, about 20 years ago, I read a book about the facts, a pro-life journalist who spent some months under cover in an abortion clinic. She saw foetuses of 3 or 4 months, looking in every way like little babies, being collected in buckets. She described how foetuses of say 6 months were effectively killed and cut out, while others of exactly the same age, in the maternity wing of the hospital, were being born prematurely and nursed to survival. She concluded with great sadness that although she still had to be in favour of abortion because of "realism", she admitted abortion was murder - or at least a killing. It devastated my cosy opinions. I have friends who've had abortions and I respect them, I praise myself extremely lucky for I could have been faced with the awful choice a few times... But it does not stop me from trying to be honest about the matter: I don't think it is a simple matter of allowing the woman the choice. (And I don't want to go into the issue that I think in some cases the father should also be allowed a say...) But my main point is this: if it's OK for a woman to kill a foetus while she's pregnant because the foetus is not yet "viable", what is to stop a woman from killing a newborn which can also not live without her help? Why can't she leave it alone in a room to starve? It may be so much easier than having to own up to it and put it up for adoption! I mean, there is no clear line to draw. Just because a baby is in my belly, I don't believe I can kill it. And yes, I know there are heartrendering stories of girls who've been raped etc, and I know I can't have a good answer to make it all right, but in those cases I have to close my eyes in pain and say "Please do it early, before the cells multiply and make hands and little feet, before it's really a little creature!" I don't think abortion should be allowed in late stages, e.g. because the woman suddenly finds that her partner will not stand by her. In that case, please give it up to adoption, don't kill it. I find it impossible to say that people should have a free choice about this. In that case, there should also be free choice for infanticide and probable patrocide (killing old senile parents) and while we're at it, killing of any other sick or incapacitated person who cannot live without dedicated care from others... I don't want to be seen in the catholic or right-wing camp because they are even against contraceptives and I don't share in any way their outlook on life. But my conscience does not allow me to condone a killing. Too many people, especially men who would never have to make the decision, are pro abortion because it is the liberal thing to do, without ever thinking what it means. There. That's my verbal diarrhoea done. I hope I haven't been too preachy - - that's the risk of any one-way message. But if you react and I hope you do: please do it kindly! Don't jump, let it sink! Because we are family and we're precious! Love to you all, Lieve. _____________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:10:01 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Greetings from another Joni fan Thanks for cluing me, Jerry! Bob on 5/8/02 11:37 AM, Jerry Notaro at notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu wrote: > "bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com" wrote: > >> At $41.84, it's a pricey item, but one that I consider a must-have. I've >> noticed that DVD's go out of print unexpectedly, so I was glad to be able to >> scoop this one up while it's still available. Unfortunately, I have deleted >> last month's digests, and don't remember who it was among you that mentioned >> the availability of this item, but to You Know Who You Are - Thanks! > > That was me. You're welcome:-) And the availability of most of these type is > very limited. If anyone is interested, get yours now, either from B&N, > politics > withstanding, or from ebay. Those that have gotten them on ebay report the guy > is very good to deal with and ships quickly. > > Jerry > > np; Maureen McGovern - Bring Back My Dreamer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 12:15:44 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: cd of the month club (njc) Can someone who is involved in the "cd of the month" please send me the names and addresses of all the people as well as the month I am supposed to contribute as I have lost all of the information. thanks very much, Victor current address: 23 Northview Street Asheville, NC 28801 --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com"Roses wait for the springtime,They sleep beneath the ground.They hear March winds a callin'For the sun to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 09:20:11 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: 57 things every rock band should know! (njc) > Never Start a Trio With a Married Couple and 56 Other Things > Every Band Should Know > > 1. If your manager's not helping you, fire him or >her. > > > > 2. Never play longer than 45 minutes. Even great >bands get boring after 10 > > songs. > > > > 3. Before you sign a record deal, look up the word >"recoupable" in the > > dictionary. > > > > 4. Getting played on "The Next Big Thing" doesn't >mean you're in regular > > rotation on KBCO. > > > > 5. No one cares whom you've opened for. > > > > 6. A string section doesn't make your songs sound >any more important. > > > > 7. Yes, you are a hippie jam band. > > > > 8. Never sign a contract within 24 hours of when >it's given to you. > > > > 9. If your band has gone through more than four bass >players, it's time to > > break up. > > > > 10. Never join a band fronted by a 17 year old. He >will get all the press > > and eventually his/her dad will fire you. > > > > 11. When you talk on stage you are never funny. > > > > 12. If you sound like another band, don't act like >you're unfamiliar with > > their music. ("Oh, does Rage Against the Machine >also do rap-rock with > > political lyrics?") > > > > 13. Asking a crowd how they're doing is just >amplified small talk. > > > > 14. Don't say your video's getting played if it's >only on Teletunes. > > > > 15. When you sign to a major label, claim to have >inked the best contract > > ever. Mention "artistic freedom" and "guaranteed >three-record deal." > > > > 16. When you get dropped, insist that it was the >worst contract ever and > > that you asked to be let go. > > > > 17. Never name a song after your band. > > > > 18. Never name your band after a song. > > > > 19. When the drummer brings in his own songs and >asks to perform one of > > them, begin looking for a new drummer immediately. > > > > 20. Don't ever think it's a good idea to be drawn >for the cover of your > > CD. > > > > 21. Never enter a "battle of the bands" contest. If >you do you're already > > a loser. > > > > 22. The proper response to a request by police to >move your van is "yes, > > sir" not "hey, man, what do you have against >musicians?" > > > > 23. Scary word pairings: "rock opera," "white >rapper," "blues jam," "swing > > band" and "open mike." > > > > 24. If you feel compelled to graffiti your name on >the walls on the > > dressing room, let us throw out a name: Wammo. > > > > 25. Don't tell people you run into that you'll put >them on your guest list > > unless you know their names. > > > > 26. Drummers can take off their shirts or they can >wear gloves, but not > > both. > > > > 27. It's not a "showcase." It's a gig that doesn't >pay. > > > > 28. If you go from being a musician to a spoken word >artist, you can't go > > back. > > > > 29. Listen, either you break it to your parents or >we will: It's rock 'n' > > roll, not soccer. They've gotta stop coming to your >shows. > > > > 30. If the label advances you enough money to rent a >tour bus, don't park > > it out in front of The LoDo Music Hall when you have >a local show. Your > > friends aren't jealous. They hate you. > > > > 31. No one cares that you have a Web site. > > > > 32. Telltale signs that it might be time to break >up: A) Your People's > > Fair slot is 8 AM. Sunday morning on the dance >stage; B) "Spinal Tap" > > isn't funny anymore; C) Several audience members are >wearing ear plugs -- > > and you're an acoustic act; D) You've got a cute >girl in the group and > > Lewis and Floorwax still won't book you for the >morning show; E) Michael > > Roberts returns your calls. > > > > 33. Getting a positive review in The Onion doesn't >mean your record's > > getting good press. And getting a good review in >Westword only means that > > no one will ever buy your record. > > > > 34. Getting a tattoo is like sewing platform shoes >to your feet. > > > > 35. Don't hire a publicist. > > > > 36. Never play restaurants unless you're a jazz >band. > > > > > > 37. Playing Colorado Springs and Steamboat doesn't >mean you're out on > > tour. > > > > 38. Don't join a cover band that has Bush songs in >its repertoire. In > > fact, don't join a cover band. > > > > 39. Although they come in different colors and >styles, electric guitars > > all sound the same. Why do you keep changing them >between > > songs? > > > > 40. Don't stop your set to ask that beers be brought >up. That's what > > girlfriends/boyfriends are for. > > > > 41. If you use a smoke machine, your music sucks. >Ditto a light show. > > > > 42. If Scout records is trying to sign you, and then >one night the guy > > from Mountainworks gives you his card, you're not >"the subject of a label > > bidding war." > > > > 43. We can tell the difference between a >professionally-produced album > > cover and one made with the iMac your mom got for >Christmas. > > > > 44. Remember, if blues guitar solos are so >difficult, why can so many > > 16-year-olds play them? > > > > 45. If you ever take a bad publicity photo, destroy >it. Otherwise, you > > never know where it might turn up. > > > > 46. Cut your hair, but do not shave your head. > > > > 47. Pierce your nose, but not your eyebrow. > > > > 48. Do not wear shorts onstage. Or a suit. Or a hat. > > > > 49. The Courtney rule: Stage diving in a baby doll >dress is like tossing a > > bowling ball to a throng of Teamsters in Scranton. > > > > 50. No song should be longer than the time it takes >to smoke a cigarette, > > drink a beer or get a table at Strings. > > > > 51. Rock oxymorons: "major label interest," "demo >deal," "legendary > > Denverite," "blues genius," "$500 guarantee," >"Firefall's next hit." > > > > 52. Three things that are never coming back: gongs, >headbands, playing > > slide guitar with a beer bottle. > > > > 53. Three more that are never coming back: Joe Ely, >Butch Hancock, Jimmie > > Dale Gilmore. > > > > 54. If you've played The People's Fair every year >since its inception, > > keep it to yourself. You wouldn't want your high >school yearbook to point > > out that you spent three years as a senior, would >you? > > > > 55. Wear a codpiece and go to jail. It's the law. > > > > 56. Never sign a contract given to you by a person >wearing shoes with no > > socks. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #203 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?