From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #158 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, April 13 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 158 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: April 13 [les@jmdl.com] Palestine NJC [colin ] RE: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie MovementNJC ["owen.duff" ] Finally the Straight Dope on Palestinians, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... [SCJoniGuy@ao] snowy owl, eagles and SHIRELLE!!! (njc) ["Sue Cameron" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 03:01:28 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: April 13 On April 13 the following item was published: 2000: "Q&A" - Rolling Stone (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000413rs.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:04:35 +0100 From: colin Subject: Palestine NJC so the Palestinians have no case? > > > < km (about 8338 sq mi). This figure includes East Jerusalem and the > Golan Heights region of southwestern Syria, both captured by Israel in > the Six-Day War of 1967 and subsequently annexed. Most countries, > however, do not recognize the annexations. Israel also seized the Gaza > Strip and the West Bank during the war. However, following historic > peace agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation > Organization (PLO) in 1993 and 1995, all Palestinian towns in the West > Bank and the Gaza Strip were transferred to Palestinian > administration. Israel considers all of Jerusalem its capital and > largest city, although the United Nations (UN) does not recognize the > city's status as capital because East Jerusalem lies in disputed > territory. > > Although the state of Israel (Medinat Israel) declared its > independence on May 14, 1948, its modern history begins with the > Zionist movement founded by Theodor Herzl at Basel, Switzerland, in > 1897. > > The number of Jews in Palestine was small in the early 20th century; > it increased from 12,000 in 1845 to nearly 85,000 by 1914. Most people > in Palestine were Arabic-speaking Muslims and Christians. Support for > the Zionist movement came largely from Jews in Europe and North > America. > > By World War I (1914-1918) the Zionist movement had won backing from > Great Britain, which wanted Jewish support for its struggle against > Germany. The British government therefore issued the Balfour > Declaration on November 2, 1917, in the form of a letter to a British > Zionist leader from the foreign secretary Arthur J. Balfour: "His > Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine > of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best > endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being > clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the > civil and religious rights of the existing non-Jewish communities in > Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any > other country." > > After World War I the terms of the Balfour Declaration were included > in the mandate for Palestine approved by the League of Nations in > 1922. The mandate entrusted Great Britain with administering Palestine > and with assisting the Jewish people in "reconstituting their national > home in that country." > > Large-scale Jewish settlement and development of extensive Zionist > agricultural and industrial enterprises in Palestine began during the > British mandatory period, which lasted until 1948. The Jewish > community, or Yishuv, increased tenfold during this era, especially > during the 1930s, when large numbers of Jews fled Europe to escape > persecution by the Nazis. Tel Aviv became the country's largest > all-Jewish city, dozens of other towns and villages were founded, and > hundreds of Jewish agricultural collectives (kibbutzim) and > cooperatives were established. > > British officials, working under the high commissioner for Palestine > appointed by the government in London, were responsible for defense > and security, immigration, postal service, transportation, and port > facilities. They were the highest authorities, ultimately responsible > for governing the country. > > The British attempted to maintain a delicate balance between the > interests and demands of the Yishuv and those of the country's > predominantly Arab population. As Jewish immigration to Palestine > increased and Jewish settlement spread, Arab opposition to British > rule and to Zionism grew. During the mandate several nationalist > uprisings culminated in a general Arab revolt (1936-39) that was > finally suppressed by British troops on the eve of World War II. > > More than 5 million Jews were killed by German Nazis during World War > II (see Holocaust). When Zionist leaders realized the extent of the > genocide being committed, their demands for self-government greatly > intensified, as did their efforts to facilitate immigration and > settlement in Palestine. In Palestine the Yishuv was galvanized in > opposition to the British mandatory authorities to support illegal > immigration of refugees from war-torn Europe. By the end of the war > most of the Yishuv was in revolt against Great Britain. > > Exhausted by seven years of war and eager to withdraw from overseas > colonial commitments, Great Britain decided in 1947 to leave Palestine > and called on the United Nations (UN) to make recommendations. In > response, the UN convened its first special session, and on November > 29, 1947, it adopted a plan calling for the partition of Palestine > into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem as an international zone > under UN jurisdiction; the Jewish and Arab states would be joined in > an economic union. The partition resolution was endorsed by a vote of > 33 to 13, supported by the United States and the Soviet Union. The > British abstained. > > In Palestine, Arab protests against partition erupted in violence, > with attacks on Jewish settlements that soon led to a full-scale civil > war. The British were intent on leaving the country no later than > August 1, 1948, the date in the partition plan for termination of the > mandate, and generally refused to intervene. > > When it became clear that the British intended to leave by May 15, > leaders of the Yishuv decided to implement the part of the partition > plan calling for establishment of a Jewish state. In Tel Aviv on May > 14 the Provisional State Council, formerly the National Council, > "representing the Jewish people in Palestine and the World Zionist > Movement," proclaimed the "establishment of the Jewish State in > Palestine, to be called Medinat Israel (the State of Israel) b& open > to the immigration of Jews from all the countries of their > dispersion." > > On May 15 the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (now Jordan), Syria, > Lebanon, and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerrillas who had > been fighting Jewish forces since November 1947. The civil war now > became an international conflict, the first Arab-Israeli War, called > the war of independence by Israel. The Arabs failed to prevent the > establishment of a Jewish state, and the war ended with four > UN-arranged armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, > Jordan, and Syria. The frontiers defined in the armistice agreements > remained until they were altered by Israel's conquests during the > Six-Day War in 1967. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:18:58 +0100 From: "owen.duff" Subject: RE: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie MovementNJC >I would say the opposite is true. It is precisielyy becasue people do not take a >good look at themesleves that there is so muvch grief in our world.(Not that I >am a fan of Freud tho. Far from it.) I was, of course, being facetious. I think a balance is needed - self-obsessed shoegazers generally aren't particularly good at looking at the world outside of themselves and their issues, but of course a degree of understanding of the human psyche is needed in trying to make the world a better place for those who inhabit it - Owen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:21:02 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Later Day Joni & The Song I'd Live In Two great threads - got me to thinking round and round. While I tend to agree with Fred about the melody thing being more special in her earlier work, I would offer some words of caution to him. No, it is not heretical in any way to critique and even criticize. However, as I confessed several times to this list in the past, there can be some danger in doing so in Joni's case ;-) For example, while I was so mesmerized by her melody lines and personal/confessional/romantic lyrics of the first 6 albums, I rejected Hissing and Hejira, which were very different from her earlier works in those two respects. (I would say "initially", but the rejection lasted over 20 years). Wrong ! Worse, I was openly critical of her shift in emphasis toward the arrangements and accompaniment and jazz influence and subject matter beyond (a bit cooler, a bit more third personal, less idealistic than) the confessional romanticism of her earlier works. Although I was defensive enough to caveat my criticism with words to the effect of "I am sure she is just going off in other directions because of her talent, but she is losing me", in my heart at that time I did not think she was as good at the new genres as she was in her earlier ones. Wrong again ! Later, I bought WTRF and DED - even worse, I thought - and passed on the others altogether. Wrong again ! Then, about 5 years ago I started picking her "later" work up again (she was always #1 with me, if only for her first 6 albums). First with TI, which inspired me to try NRH, then I gave Hejira and HOSL another chance and ....I was confronted with the awful truth of what I had said 20 years earlier. Couldn't (still can't) erase it from my conscience. Better not to try. Turns out my tastes and I needed to grow up a bit. In her later works she has done more with harmonies, counterpoint, social commentary, and instrumentation than her earlier reliance on melody and single instrumental accompaniment. One need not prefer it - but I for one have learned not to hold my opinion of her work in higher regard than Joni's own opinion of it. If she thinks it's good, and I do not, she as almost certainly right :-) Speaking of which, if she likes Sex Kills (and I agree that it is obvious that she does), I would be even more hesitant to dismiss it. Watch out - its virtues may sneak up on you from behind some day and goose you ;-). As a second point of caution, if Dylan (not one of my favorites) was effusive about it, it probably is a pretty good piece of lyrical writing. (Then there is my wondering whether his rare praise for that work lifted it higher in Joni's esteem - how dare I go there ?) On the subject of honesty, I agree with Bob M that Jericho is a brutally honest song. I have expressed my view in the past that in Jericho's case it exposes some of her failings in the area of love - shows her warts, if you will. But her honesty is an integral part of her greatness as an artist - I accept her warts, and respect that she shows them to me - er, us. ;-) Still on the subject of honesty, sometimes she takes me in her third person work to places I am/have been/ wish I were not. Songs I would rather not live. It may not have gotten me out of them, but it has helped me to keep them in better perspective and deal with them with better balance. You could have been more Than a name on the door On the 33rd floor in the air More than a credit card Swimming pool in the back yard While you still have the time You could get away and find A better life, you know the grind Is so ungrateful Racing cards, whiskey bars (bridge cards, chord bars, four pars) ........No one cares who you really are I know it gets hard Keeping the wheels turning And the wife she keeps the key She's so pleased to be A part of the arrangement You could have been more You could have been more You could have been more To those of us for whom this song has held up pretty well over the years (sometimes crossing generations within a family), I must say it is quite a haunting piece of work - for a 25 year year old to have written. Not exactly right , perhaps (or is it ?) - but too close for comfort. And this is perhaps #50 on my list of favorites of hers. In a world where nothing is right and nothing is wrong (?) or where everything on our side is right and everything on their side is wrong (?), Borderline is a pretty timely (timeless ?) piece of writing - although I think it is below her norm as a piece of music. I may be wrong about that last criticism, however ;-) Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:28:54 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Teaching of Hate, NJC Colin wrote: > What about the hundreds of men women and children being killed by the israeli's > over the last few weeks? Don't suppose it matters. after all they are all just > evil arabs right? No Colin, some of them are simply innocent victims. You made your point 6 months ago by saying that 1 is too many. All I can say is: 1) If terrorists hide themselves behind human shields, who's responsible if they're killed? 2) Should the killing of innocent victims prevent Israel from defending itself? 3) Who's ultimately responsible for this mess? See the next post for a comprehensive view of it. Unfortunately, I'll be away for the next 2 weeks without email so I will not continue this interesting exchange until then. Laurent Debra wrote: > Reading these one-sided views of the Israelis as innocent good guys is > getting disturbing now. Things were relatively peaceful until September > 2000 when Ariel Sharon visited a mosque, knowing the negative reaction > it would have. It was a deliberate provocative move on his part. Sorry Debra I disagree completely. First things were never peaceful. Second, Sharon visited the Temple Mount where the holiest Jewish site is located, the western wall, for the purpose of praying as any Jew is entitled to do in his holiest site. Incidentally, Jews were forbidden to even go there until 1967 as long as it was under Jordanian rule. Anyway, it just so happens that the Muslims have built 2 mosques overlooking the western wall. Knowing that his visit to a Jewish site near some mosques might be a problem, he warned the Palestinian Authority beforehand and received a green light to go there. While he was there nothing happened, it was a peaceful visit. It was only afterwards that the propaganda you're hereby relaying was made up by Arabs in order to stir up trouble. Sharon never went to a mosque. He went to the Wailing Wall. This web site you're referring to is pure propaganda, at which the Arabs are clearly the masters of. I believe the worst part of all is ignorance, so I refer you to the next post for a very informative summary. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:34:05 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Finally the Straight Dope on Palestinians, NJC A little long but positively brilliant. PS: Before you comment, make sure to visit the Palestinian slide show referred to in yesterday's post. Laurent > on How to Be an Arafat Apologist > FrontPageMagazine.com | April 11, 2002 > By: Jamie Glazov > > > WITH ALL OF THE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that has now > confirmed, beyond any reasonable doubt, Arafat's > terrorist connections and duplicitous behavior > vis-`-vis Israel, it has become impossible for > Arafat's apologists to make any legitimate excuses for > their hero. I know a number of academics and writers > that have become extremely depressed because of this > situation. Having based their entire lives and > professional careers on blaming Israel for any and > every sparrow that fell from the sky, they have now > lost the will to live. I feel sorry for these > pathetic people. > > I have decided to come forward to help the individuals > who want to continue championing Yasser Arafat but > simply don't know how. > > Seeing that I have dedicated most of my adult life to > observing and dissecting the psychotic mindset that it > takes to blame Israel for the conflict in Palestine, I > know exactly what it takes to be an Arafat supporter. > Even in these difficult times, I can teach an > individual how to effectively defend Arafat and the > Palestinian Authority -- even if the entire charade is > filled with specious nonsense and lies. > > I have created ten tips on how to be an Arafat > apologist. They come with an easy to follow > step-by-step guide. All you have to do is fertilize > your personal dedication to anti-Semitism and then > simply allow yourself to become as delusional as > humanly possible. > > The video infomercial for these tips should be coming > out next month on television stations across the > United States. Meanwhile, here is the basic outline > for all those Jew-haters who have dedicated their > lives to blaming Israel for every Arab terrorist act > but thought that doing so was no longer possible: > > Tip #1 - Imagine that the Palestinians are fighting > for a homeland that was taken away from them by the > evil Jews. > > That's right. The foundation to becoming and > remaining a faithful pro-Arafat enthusiast is to > intoxicate yourself with the belief that the > Palestinians actually once owned a homeland that was, > in turn, stolen by the greedy and parasitic Jews. > > While trying to convince yourself of this fantasy, > ignore the historical fact that the Palestine Mandate > was never a nation, let alone even a political entity > of any kind. It was a "mandate" that was created by > the British from the remnants of the Turkish Empire > after World War I. 10% of it was given to the Jews > and 90% was given to the Palestinian Arabs. > > The key here is that you should never worry about > where 90% of Palestine actually is. Just obsess with > the miniscule tiny bit of land that the Israelis > "occupy" now. It's not important that this land was > never officially "owned" by anyone in the first place. > > > You should also never reflect on whether all of your > rage and hatred on this issue is proportional to the > fact that Israel consists of 1% of the land in the > Middle East. > > Just get really angry that Israel is on territory that > you think should be given to the Palestinians. And > because you think this, then it automatically makes it > right and historically correct. > > You should never wonder how your moral indignation on > this issue fits with your complete indifference to the > fact that Jordan occupies 80% of the land that made up > the original Palestine Mandate. So if you really > cared about the Palestinians, you would obviously be > focusing your energy on protesting the crime being > perpetrated by the Jordanians against the > Palestinians. But the key here is that, well, deep > down, you don't really care about the Palestinians -- > and neither should you. You must never admit this, > but the Palestinians are only there for you to > cynically exploit as pawns in your contributory effort > to finish off what Adolph Hitler started. > > That's right. You know what I'm talking about. And > even the Palestinians are in on this with you. I > mean, think about it: if the Palestinians themselves > really cared about getting a homeland, don't you think > that they would be screaming about -- and fighting for > -- the land that Jordan occupies? Don't you think it > is somewhat curious that Jordan has never, even for a > second, been the target of a Palestine liberation > movement? > > Don't you think it is a little bit curious that, in > 1948, the Palestinian Arabs rejected an international > resolution that would have established a Palestinian > state, and instead focused all of their energies on > destroying the new Jewish state? > > You're starting to get the picture now, right? > > So be a smart and clever Arafat apologist. The > overall objective of your life should be facilitating > the killing of Jews and destroying the state of > Israel. The last thing you should be doing is > worrying about the Palestinians. At the same time, > however, in terms of what you actually say in public, > you must always discuss the Middle East "problem" on > the assumption that you are agonizing over the > Palestinians' plight and how their entire "homeland" > somehow lies in tiny little Israel. > > It is also a very good idea that you always refer to > the myth of how the Jews "stole" the Palestinian > "homeland" in passing, because then it makes its > reality appear to be a given. You can't believe how > effective this ploy can be, especially in the midst of > people who know nothing about Middle East history. > > So believe in yourself and just do it! > > Tip #2 - Never question the cause of Palestinian > terror. > > Every time that a Palestinian blows himself up along > with innocent Jewish civilians, including babies in > carriages, you should shake your head in despair and > say things like, "That poor Palestinian. But he > simply had no choice. The Israelis have pushed his > people beyond their means." > > You should always say things like this with a tone > that implies that the "Israeli occupation" is the most > oppressive reality in the world. Say things like, > "The Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what the > Nazis did to them." Follow this up with sentences > like, "The Jews have obviously forced the Palestinians > into terrorism." > > When you mouth these slogans, make sure to have a > serious and sincere look on your face, otherwise the > asininity of what you are saying might become more > easily discernable. Maintaining a sober facial > expression can be made easier if you convince yourself > that the wars of 1973 and 1967 are irrelevant to the > subject at hand. > > Before Israel was attacked in 1973, it occupied less > of the land that is now in dispute, and before 1967, > it occupied none of it. In other words, the Arab > terror that was unleashed against Israel in 1967 had > nothing to do with the Israeli "occupation" of the > West Bank and Gaza Strip because the "occupation" did > not exist. > > From 1949-1967, Jordan had occupied the West Bank > while Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip. But instead of > the Arabs using terror against Egypt and Jordan to get > them off of the Palestinians' "land,", an Arab war of > terror against Israel was launched in 1967. Israel > won that war and grabbed both the West Bank and Gaza > Strip as a security measure. > > So why is it, you think, that Jordan's annexation of > the West Bank and Egypt's annexation of the Gaza Strip > from 1949-67 didn't trigger any emotions in the > Palestinians who lived in those territories? Why is > it that not once, in all of those 18 years, was there > even a sentence of indignation uttered by the > Palestinians or by their "liberation" organization > about the injustice done to the inhabitants of the > West Bank and Gaza Strip? Why did other Arab states > say nothing about it? > > You know why. And this means that the terror against > Israel has always been, and still is, caused by > something other than Israelis being on any kind of > "territory." I'll give you six hints about what the > real cause is connected to: > > Hint #1: Hitler formulated the Final Solution because > of it. > > Hint #2: it has something to do with why Israel cannot > be found on a map in Palestinian geography classes. > It's also connected to why Palestinian textbooks teach > Palestinian children that Jews are evil thieves who > have taken Arab land and who must therefore be killed. > The textbooks also tell the kiddies that suicide > bombing is what Allah loves most, since that noble and > holy activity is the most effective way of murdering > Jews and "liberating" Palestine. > > Hint #3: it's why the Palestinian Authority has > published the Arabic translation of Mein Kampf, and > why that tract has reached number six on its > best-seller list. > > Hint #4: It is connected to why, in 1960, when the > Israelis captured Adolph Eichmann, the government-run > Saudi Arabian newspaper ran a story headlined: "Arrest > Of Eichmann, Who Had The Honor Of Killing Six Million > Jews." > > Hint #5: it has something to do with the great honor > and respect that is bestowed in the Middle East upon > anyone who succeeds in killing Jews. For instance, if > you blow yourself up along with some innocent Jewish > mothers and babies, your picture will be plastered on > posters throughout your hometown. Your family will > acquire a revered place in society and will also > receive $25,000 in American currency from Saddam > Hussein. You, meanwhile, will get to fulfill all of > your wildest and repressed sexual fantasies with 72 > virgins in heaven. > > Hint #6: the whole matter is related to why Hashemi > Rafsanjani, the eminent representative of "Iranian > moderation," has boasted that once the Muslim world > gets a hold of nuclear weapons, which he assures will > be very soon, the Jewish "question" will be solved > forever. > > Now that you know what the real cause of Palestinian > terror is, make sure to always deny it. Instead, > consistently maintain to others that it is the result > of Israelis being on "Palestinian territory." > > Tip #3 - Ignore the words of Palestinians. > > When you make your arguments for the Palestinian right > to a homeland, always make sure to emphasize that the > Palestinians acknowledge the right of Israel to exist. > To make sure this works effectively, never mention, > or ever even think about, what the Palestinians > actually say themselves. > > For instance, never talk about the Palestinian > Covenant of 1968, because it embodies the > philosophical principles of the Palestinians > themselves and says things that would shatter the > foundation to all of your arguments. For instance, > Article 19 affirms that, "The partition of Palestine > in 1947 and the establishment of Israel is > fundamentally null and void, whatever time has > elapsed, because it is contrary to the wish of the > people of Palestine and its natural right to its > homeland." > > Article 15 states that, "The liberation of Palestine, > from the Arab viewpoint, is a national duty to repulse > the Zionist, Imperialist invasion from the great Arab > homeland and to purge the Zionist presence from > Palestine." > > Also ignore Articles 20 and 22, because they reject > even the historical and religious ties of Jews to the > Holy Land itself. And that is precisely why > Palestinian children are yet to find the state of > Israel on any maps in their geography classes. > > You also shouldn't worry that Arafat has never > repudiated the Articles in the Palestinian Covenant of > 1968. This explains why, when speaking English to > Western audiences, he always talks about how he > acknowledges the right of Israel to exist. But when > he speaks Arabic to Arab audiences, he does little > else but boast about his successes in working toward > the Palestinians' most ambitious goal: to destroy the > state of Israel. One only has to briefly listen to > the Arab media, mosque sermons, and classroom and cafe > conversations to gauge that this disposition > represents a wide consensus in Arab society in general > and in Palestinian society in particular. > > Thus, when you are trying to persuade someone about > the good intentions of Arafat and the Palestinian > Authority, and how they accept the existence of > Israel, never mention what the Palestinians themselves > talk about. You should most definitely stay away from > the subject of the 1968 Palestinian Covenant, because > this could cause you problems. If someone else brings > it up, change topics immediately. > > Tip #4 - Imagine that Palestinians were, and are > better off without Israel and the Israeli > "occupation." > > You should be constantly angry about the suffering of > Palestinians and be convinced that it is the fault of > Israel. Palestinian suffering should always be > equated with Israeli responsibility. These two > notions must be inseparable in your mind. > > Palestinian suffering is definitely not the fault of > Arafat or of all the Arab states - even though they > have done everything in their power to make sure that > the Palestinians do not receive a homeland. > > That's right. So try not to reflect too much on why > the Palestinians of the West Bank are barred from > becoming citizens in the Arab world. When the Gaza > Strip was under Egyptian administration, for instance, > the Palestinians there were denied Egyptian > citizenship and thereby remained stateless. This is > exactly why the Palestinians are known as "refugees." > > The Arabs love their Palestinian brothers. It's just > that, well, they love them from a distance. > > In any case, you should try your hardest to convince > yourself that the Palestinians' life under the Israeli > "occupation" is the worst experience of any people > under any regime in the history of the human race. > The first step to believing this notion is to ignore > the fact that Palestinians are much worse off in > occupied Lebanon, where they are denied basic rights > to employment, healthcare and government services -- > unlike the Palestinians in Israel and in the > "occupied" territories. > > You should also avoid the subject of how Kuwait > ethnically cleansed all Palestinians (about 300,000 of > them) just a decade ago, and how Jordanians > slaughtered thousands of them after the 1967 war. > > Try to imagine that all of this isn't very relevant. > And neither is the fact that the world community never > said too much about these Arab atrocities. It's okay > when Muslim Arabs practice genocide against > Palestinians. It's only wrong when the Israelis > oppress Palestinians in the effort to defend > themselves from terror. > > You also shouldn't stress yourself about the racism > against Arabs that this whole double standard implies. > Indeed, by holding Jews up to a higher moral > accountability than Arabs, the view that lets Arabs > off the hook for oppressing their own brethren implies > a civilizational inferiority to them -- and a > civilizational superiority to Jews. But don't think > through this too much. You might get depressed after > realizing that, deep down, just like a Leftist > despises the "underclass" people for whom he purports > to speak, so too you have smug contempt for the Arabs > that you believe you represent in your self-alienated > imagination. > > The key, in general, is that you should just avoid the > whole issue of how the Jews have treated the > Palestinians much better than the Arabs have. > > It is also a very good idea for you to ignore the fact > that Israel has given birth to an Arab citizenry > inside Israel of more than one million people. This > way you won't have to wonder how it is that, as > Israeli citizens, Arabs have more rights, privileges > and opportunities than the citizens of any Arab state > in the Middle East. Unlike their Arab brothers and > sisters, Arab citizens in Israel vote in free > elections and are themselves elected to the Israeli > parliament. In other words, the only place where > Arabs know democracy and a high standard of living is > in a Jewish nation. > > This is a hard pill to swallow for a person like you, > who aspires to demonize Israel and to glorify the Arab > world as the embodiment of true democracy and > stupendous progress in world civilization. > > So what you have to do is visualize images of how > Israel is the most evil nation on the face of the > earth and how Arabs and Palestinians have endured > unspeakable suffering because of it. > > Tip #5 - Imagine that Israel controls the "occupied" > territories for some bizarre, vague and sinister > reason. > > That's right: imagine that Israel controls the > "occupied" territories because Jews have nothing > better to do than to inflict pain. They think it's in > their interest to trigger terrorism against > themselves, as well as to ignite the hatred of a large > portion of the world's population. > > With great moral indignation, you should say things > like, "the Israelis need to get out of the occupied > territories." Say this as if it is a really easy, > simple and safe thing for the Israelis to do. > > Never consider that the Israeli "occupation" of the > territories in question might actually not be the > greatest crime in world history. It might also not > deserve immediate rectification. Sometimes land is > confiscated when aggressive and terrorist states > repeatedly attack their neighbors -- and lose. > > But this should not be your concern. > > What should be your concern is to say things that make > Israel look as if it controls areas like the West Bank > because Israelis need to fill the void of no longer > being allowed to sacrifice and eat gentile babies in > their religious rituals. > > Tip #6 - Say that Arafat isn't a terrorist. > > You should always say things like: "One man's > terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter." After > that, say things like, "Arafat is a freedom-fighter." > > You must always ignore that Arafat has provided > sanctuary and support to Palestinian suicide bombers > and terrorists of all stripes. Be very open-minded > about how he has personally endorsed suicide bombings > rhetorically and celebrated the cult of "martyrdom" > and other forms of homicide. > > And always make sure to announce things like, "Arafat > has imprisoned militants." When you say this, don't > worry that the Palestinian "jails" that Arafat places > "militants" in are notorious for their bars in the > front and revolving doors at the back. Just tell > people that Arafat is really trying to get terrorism > under control. > > Don't lose any sleep over the fact that explosives of > the specific type used by Palestinian suicide bombers > have been found in Palestinian police stations all > over the "occupied" territories. Also don't concern > yourself with the fact that 500 Palestinians were just > recently arrested in and around Arafat's compound and > that dozens of them were on Israel's lists of > most-wanted terrorists. Arafat was obviously still > trying his best to track these people down. The > reason he couldn't find them was that they were > cleverly hiding in his office while he was desperately > patrolling the West Bank looking for them. > > And by all means, deny to others, as well as to > yourself, that connections between the Palestinian > Authority and international Islamic terror > organizations, including al-Qaeda, have now been > established beyond any reasonable doubt. If you > accept this reality, then your whole belief system > will come crashing down. > > Just look really sure of yourself and say things like, > "Arafat isn't a terrorist. He is a freedom fighter." > > Tip #7 - Imagine that Arafat has the interests of his > own people in mind. > > This is the key to being an effective apologist for > Arafat. You must always tell people that your hero > truly cares about his own people -- even though the > history of his every move negates the possibility of > this being the case. > > A person that truly wanted the best for the > Palestinian people would have embraced an offer that > accepted 95% of the Palestinians' negotiating demands > and would have given the Palestinians their own > sovereign state in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip, > more than 90 percent of the West Bank, and a capital > in Jerusalem. That's what Israeli Prime Minister Ehud > Barak offered Arafat in 2000. But Arafat rejected the > proposal, demanding, instead, the flooding of Israel > with millions of Palestinians. He knew, as Israelis > did, that such a development would destroy Israel as a > Jewish state. > > Arafat shrewdly understood that Israel could not, and > would not, engage in self-destruction and this is how > he succeeded in his main objective: to avoid the > creation of a new Arab state and to annihilate the > only Jewish one. That's what the "Palestinian > uprising," after all, is really all about. > > It is obvious, therefore, why Arafat has consistently > stifled all Israeli efforts to improve the prosperity > of the Palestinian people. He wants his people to > bleed in misery and destitution. That way their > suffering can be exploited in the Arabs' suicide wars > against Israel. > > Now the key for you, therefore, is to deny the > obvious. > > You know that the "Palestinian problem" is far more > useful to Arafat than its solution will ever be. > Arafat knows that peace with Jews is his own political > suicide at best -- and his own death warrant at worst. > > What you have to do is look people in the eyes as > honestly as you can and say things like, "Arafat is > really trying to help his people." Say this as if you > yourself have been talking to Arafat and that he tells > you things that he wouldn't confide in most people. > > Tip #8 - Say that Arab terrorism has nothing to do > with jealousy. > > It is absolutely crucial that you consistently tell > anyone you talk to that Israel is vehemently hated by > the Arabs because of something that Israel has done to > the Arabs. > > Never consider what the Arabs of the Middle East would > do with all of their time if there were no Israel. > > Never suspect that Middle Eastern Arabs spend such an > inordinate amount of their daily life hating a nation > that takes up 1% of land in the Middle East because > they might have a little problem with envy and > jealousy. > > It might not be the easiest thing for Arabs to > reconcile themselves with the reality that their > culture has yet to produce one prosperous, functional > and democratic society. Yet they see that the Jews > have accomplished exactly that - in a tiny piece of > land that was a desert fifty years ago. Indeed, the > Jews have built the most powerful economy and the only > industrial and democratic nation in the entire Middle > East. > > This is a very painful truth for Middle Eastern Arabs > to accept. So as an Arafat apologist, your job is to > completely ignore this phenomenon. You must fantasize > that when Arabs jump up and down with ferocious rage > for hours on end every day screaming "Death to > Israel," that the solution to their rage is definitely > not to get a job, let alone a life of any kind. The > solution lies in the Jews smartening up and stopping > being so evil. If they did that, then obviously Arabs > would find better things to do then spend ten hours a > day, seven days a week, hollering at the top of their > lungs and foaming at their mouths in the middle of the > barren deserts that they have lived in for centuries. > > You see: Arabs don't fail in making progress because > of any serious pathology in their personal lives and > culture. No, they mope around in long robes and > headscarves in medieval societies because of what the > Jews are doing to the Palestinians. And yes, ok, > these same Arabs never lifted a finger or mouthed a > word of protest when the Palestinians received much > harsher treatment from Arabs. But don't think this > through. Actually, if anyone ever points this out to > you, just say that the Arabs did protest the > persecution of the Palestinians by other Arabs but > that the Western press just didn't report it. > > Tip #9 - Say it's in Israel's interest to pursue > "peace". > > You should constantly say that it is in Israel's > interest to pursue "peace," even though all of the > evidence suggests the exact opposite. More Israelis > have died from terrorism since the signing of Oslo in > 1993 than in the four decades before it. There have > been more than 80 suicide bombings against Israel > since the "peace process" began. Before Oslo, suicide > bombings were almost non-existent. Each new atrocity > against Israelis since 1993, meanwhile, has been > hailed by the Palestinian media and the Palestinian > Authority that controls it. > > You should ignore facts such as these and make it a > daily habit to say things like, "The Israelis should > really try to make peace with Arafat. It's in their > interest." > > Tip #10 - Shed yourself of any integrity you might > have ever had. > > In order for you to practice the previous nine tips > successfully, you need to make sure that you rid > yourself of any personal dignity or integrity that > might ever have been a part of your character and > personality. You have to be absolutely shameless and > live by absolutely no ethical or moral standard of any > kind. Otherwise you will not be able to lie to > others, and to yourself, the way I instruct you to. > Arafat supporters have done it effectively before you. > But now you can do it the best. Be the best liar you > can be. That way, you might yet become the best > Arafat apologist on earth. You can do it! > > Jamie Glazov holds a Ph.D. in History with a specialty > in Soviet Studies. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 07:55:03 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NPR Marketplace today njc <> Congratulations, Kate - I guess? LOL! Maybe the station was flooded with phone call asking who it was! :~) Bob NP: Dave Van Ronk, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:09:48 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie Movement In a message dated 13/04/02 08:04:18 GMT Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:54:49 +0100 > From: "owen" > Subject: Joni at the Beeb and the Hippie Movement > > Hey guys, > Did anyone else think Joan came across as a little humourless on that Hippie > programme? I know everything is made in the editing process but I would've > liked to have seen a flash of that wicked grin! Yes, I didn't think she was at her best. She looked tired and a little bored by the whole thing to me. I imagine she finds it a little tedious to be questioned about just that very short period in her life when she would probably prefer to talk about, what she considers to be, far more significant periods. The only time we glimpsed the wicked grin was at the end of her rendition of BYT at Woodstock (I think). Thought overall that the > show put her over well though, she looked so cool singing 'Woodstock' at the > Isle of White festival - I'm in the unfortunate position of having seen > little of Joni on TV (save for the 'Last Waltz' and PWWAM), so little > moments like this are enought to thrill me. Joni did get more coverage than I expected in the program. Sadly, it will probably have served to enhance peoples opinion that she only ever sang BYT, Chelsea Morning and Woodstock. Still we do have to be grateful for what we got I suppose. As someone else said, there was some interesting stuff in the program, especially Arthur Brown's interview. In fact, the whole hippie > movement got me thinking. I believe I'm right in saying we need artists that > are going to believe in something and say something about it to my > generation. I always considered myself a cynic, but when I see we have > amoral governments chasing votes and an amoral media just selling and > selling all the time (unattainable beauty, lifestyles etc.), I start to feel > that hippie idealism creeping through! > > Peace, > > Owen > > p.s I blame Freud for the state of the western world, all that stuff about > self self self - no wonder nobody looks at the bigger picture! > Comments from psychologists please! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:16:55 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Teaching of Hate, NJC Laurent Olszer wrote: > Colin wrote: > > > What about the hundreds of men women and children being killed by the > israeli's > > over the last few weeks? Don't suppose it matters. after all they are all > just > > evil arabs right? > > No Colin, some of them are simply innocent victims. You made your point 6 > months ago by saying that 1 is too many. All I can say is: 1) If terrorists > hide themselves behind human shields, who's responsible if they're killed? the people who kill them. > > 2) Should the killing of innocent victims prevent Israel from defending > itself? okay so you think killing children is a legitimate way to defend yourself. We come from different places. > 3) Who's ultimately responsible for this mess? people on both sides. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:17:43 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sometimes I'm Hippy <> Nathan, Hopefully we're much more than a "fan club". There's nothing wrong with criticism of Joni as long as it's respectful. I say that with the realization that *I'm* probably the biggest offender of this "rule", what with some of the comments I've made regarding some of her work and those Miyake dresses. Anyway, the only reason any of us would be critical would be because we cared deeply about her & her work. After all, if we didn't, we could just let it pass without comment and probably wouldn't be here in the first place. Bob NP: Michael Holland, "A Case of You" (one of the best ones!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:27:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Releasing the Orchestral recording on separate disks... <> Hi John! While this thought has also occured to me, if this is the case it's a very expensive route. Hiring an orchestra and making the kinds of recordings she's doing ain't cheap, plus she's done some extensive packaging presentations as well. I'm inclined to believe that she WANTS the muse to revisit (I pray this is true), and she's just exercising her right to do some projects she's always dreamed of. It also occured to me that she's probably trying to put out records that Myrtle will like. There seems to still be a lot of desire on Joni's part to gain her Mom's respect for her work. Bob NP: George Hamilton IV, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 08:44:28 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: snowy owl, eagles and SHIRELLE!!! (njc) Kerry, Mags, Shirelle and all, Kerry, I laughed out loud at the Robin comment. Can I have your permission to use that? Too funny. We used to have a snowy owl who sat on top of one of the light poles in downtown Petoskey. It was to the point where we took his being there for granted. When he finally didn't show up one year the newspaper dug out an old article and photo and republished it. It was sad, almost like our guardian angle had flown away. Mags, we are blessed to have several eagles' nests around our inland waterway. In fact, I have been lucky enough to have seen one swoop down and grab what appeared to be a walleye. The osprey, though, was something almost prehistoric, like looking at the pelicans while in Florida. Shirelle, wowee! I got your CD and played it over and over in my classroom this week. Got many lovely comments about it and I hope I will have your blessing in making copies for my friends. I knew I would like it after hearing you live back in '98, just didn't realize how much. Sue, n.p. Those chicken shit robins chirping out my window! Yeah, welcome back now that the snow has melted!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:13:23 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Bob Schneider (njc) Can anyone tell me about this gent? Caught a snipet of one of his songs at the end of a movie that my husband was watching last night and it spoke to me. Got his bio off lonestarmusic: Bob Schneider Bob Schneider was born in Ypsilanti, Michigan. The son of an opera singer, his parents moved to Germany, when he was two. He was taught guitar and piano at an early age and showed promise as an illustrator as early as five. After graduating from high school, he attended an American university in Munich, Germany and then the University of Texas at El Paso where he majored in fine arts. He soon dropped out of school and moved to Austin, Texas to persue a career in music. After a number of short lived bands, he ended up fronting the rock-rap group Joe Rockhead. The group released three CD's and then promptly broke up. He was the singer for the band Ugly Americans, which released two CD's under Capricorn Records. After releasing themselves from their recording contracts, the band became known as The Scabs. The Scabs released three full length CD's and one EP and still performs today, being one of the most popular dance bands in all of Texas. In 1999, Bob Schneider began persuing a solo career under the band name Lonelyland. He released three solo CD's on the independent label Shockorama, and the second entitled "Lonelyland" was picked up by Universal Records. Any info or insight would be appreciated! Donna, you heard of this guy down in Texas?!?! Sue n.p. Refrigerator Car - Spin Doctors See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #158 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?