From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #155 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, April 11 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 155 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: April 11 [les@jmdl.com] Re: The song I'd live in.... ["hell" ] Re: Hate, NJC [colin ] joni on BBC [colin ] Re: birds njc ["Kakki" ] Re: hate njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Pat Metheny Group NJC [FredNow@aol.com] When hippies pulled the world [Gordon Mackie ] a song to live in... [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] that incident at a Joni gig NJC [colin ] Re: that incident at a Joni gig NJC [Jerry Notaro ] RE: the Song I am Living IN Now NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Sex Kills [Jerry Notaro ] Re: birds njc ["gene mock" ] The Last Waltz re-release NJC [Richard Goldman ] Re: The Last Waltz re-release [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: The Last Waltz re-release [Jerry Notaro ] Mind blowing stuff, Teaching of Hate, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: birds njc ["Kakki" ] re: The Song I Live In ["c Karma" ] Re: The Last Waltz re-release NJC [Richard Goldman ] Another Joni in lit reference [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] the last waltz, in nyc ["patrick leader" ] Fw: Ask Carly - Carly's take on 'the Fez incident' sjc ["Mark or Travis"] "For The Roses" ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #154 - one or two new CDs [BRYAN8847@aol.com] RE: Later Day Joni ["michael o'malley" ] RE: Later Day Joni - Confession ["Heather" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:06:41 -0400 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: April 11 On April 11 the following items were published: 1998: "Little Green a Little Blue" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980411tgm.cfm 2000: "If I Can Make It There..." - KINK102FM.com (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000411kink.cfm 2000: "Joni and the Wail" - Entertainment Weekly Online (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000411ew.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:35:55 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: The song I'd live in.... Erica wrote: > If I could spend the rest of my days living in the Joni song of my choice I > think it would most definitely be "Ladies of Canyon". Annie, Trina, > Estrella, and I pouring music down the canyon. I could get used to that! > What do you think? Which lovely tune would you reside in? Nice idea! The first song that comes to mind is Night Ride Home (especially after seeing Joni's video). Driving at sunset with my baby next to me, crickets chirping and a warm breeze. Fireworks, a big blue moon, open countryside, horses racing alongside....... pure bliss! Hell - back home again ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:38:29 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Hate, NJC > Arafat should tell his people > that TERRIOSM IS WRONG. There was an Isaraeli terrorism campaign against the British which led to the founding of Israel. > > > > > Their leader wants Israel annihilated!! Wiped from the face of the earth! > They will not recognize Israel as a sovereign state. not surprising at all when you know how Israel came to be. > > BUT what Israel will not tolerate are > these suicide bombers, thus the murdering of their innocents. The killing of Palestinians women and children and men doesn't matter? > > > > > >The reason for all the wars and disputes in the world is one group of > >people > >insisting that their view is the only correct one and forcing said view on > >others > > I don't believe it in this case,I really don't. Israel is the one lone > democracy in this region.....and all their neighbors hate them. For the reasons stated above. > I feel > Israel is special and this may sound corny, but to me they are the "good > guys" who have been so maligned throughout history. No not the Israeli's, but Jews. And this is part of the problem-collective guilt over the the Holocast has led people to allow this situation to arise. You are possible right about this ending up in deep shit for everyone. It is biund to happen one day. Juts the other day, pakistan was saying it would nuke India if it felt the need. Bush said the same about using nukes in te Mid Eats if necessary. They will probably get used. If they do, I just hope I go in the first blast. Rather be gone in seconds than lingerto die of starvation or radiation sickness.(i did 't undrstadn what radiation sickeness was-it is casued by the nucleus of our body cells being destroyed thus killing us slowly from the inside. What a brilliantly clever invention.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:45:39 +0100 From: colin Subject: joni on BBC Coungth haflt he program last night-started at 10.35pm not 11.05pm. I saw Joni 3 times. fag in hand, speaking of the 60's and the hippy movemenet. She referred tothe 'free love' phase as self indulgence and that how 'we have found that free love is costs a great a deal'. There were sevral other 'name's talking baout this period, British celebreties, talking about IOW and Woodstock. they were not old enough to have been there! So why have them commenting? Don't know. Surely they could have found more cel;ebs old enough to know what they are on about? Germain Greer was on too. Frank as usual. A person I admire. Funny and to the point. She spoke of somes Hippies having very violent tendancies and it was a case of 'we support love and peace and I will beat you till you agree'. Funny how the free love thing didn;'t extend to gays. The same fear and intolerance was shown towards gays by the hippies as was shown by others. Joni seems to have a 'hunch' in her back or something. Like her spine has curved. Or she was just sitting badly. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:35:58 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: birds njc Kate wrote: >the other day i saw a bluebird which i thought was unusual...its the jays that are so common around here... That IS unusual - they are usually only found in Northern California or maybe way up high in the mountains. Have you heard about the blue jays on Santa Cruz Island? Because they have no predators there they have become giants, two to three times larger than those on the mainland. It's a crackup to see them - they almost look like blue pheasants! My best friend is a complete bird nut - always with binoculars wherever she goes. One time while she was visiting LA she said "look a flock of parrots!" I thought "yeah right" but sure enough they were. There are thousands of them and other tropical birds on the loose in LA - domestic escapees and runaways who have found each other and flocked together! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:00:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: hate njc You say falafel, I say falafel You say shalom, I say salaam Falafel, falafel, shalom, salaam Let's blow the whole thing up! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:05:55 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Pat Metheny Group NJC RoseMJoy@aol.com writes: >Lyle Mays was phenomenal as always, he and Pat did this piece >together and it was the most sensitive beautiful music I've ever heard. Yes, that would be their medley of the theme for "A Map of the World" and an older tune "In Her Family." Sublime. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:46:27 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: When hippies pulled the world Hmmmmmm Well I must say it was pretty unispired tv from the BBC. Kathy Burke, whom I love as an actress, was positively catatonic /comatose in her delivery. Was this ever a case of wrong person for the job. The Joni bits were of interest but not exactly new...more of the pink dress with the antimacassar neck. The up to date interviews with her seemed heavily edited. Did I tape the whole thing. Of course. Will I watch it again. Hmmmm who can say. What did you think Gordon PS I loved the Arthur Brown stuff....and the Doors were positively torn to shreds as the most overrrated band of the era....interesting ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:35:11 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: a song to live in... hmmm... good question. although i can't think of one to live in now (yet love the choices suggested by others), i have thought before of at least two joni songs i USED to live in -- in my NYC waitress/bartending days: barangrill: "none of the crazy you get from too much choice" and "ah, her mind's on her boyfriend and eggs over easy" the boho dance: "i was a hopeful in rooms like this when i was working cheap" two songs that i used to feel (sometimes still do!) that joni wrote just for me! - -- emily PS: although the one song that a bunch of us used to sing loud and pretend to live in, at this old roughandtumble pub called "riverrun" down in tribeca--torn down now-- was: "brandy, you're a fine girl, what a good wife you would be...but my life, my love and my lady, is the sea." by the looking glass? anyway: i highly recommend it to anyone currently in the waitress/bartend trade. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:01:49 +0100 From: colin Subject: that incident at a Joni gig NJC Well, Chrissie was a bit intoxicated and was yelling out during Joni's performance which needless to say, everybody wanted to hear. Chrissie was sitting right next to me and I asked her to be a little quieter. No one else would have dared say that to her, but me, stupid me, didn't know it was Chrissie. She started choking me in a loving way, saying: "you're great too Carly, get up there, you need to do this too". Very nice, the only problem being that it was right in the middle of Joni's song and people were looking at US. So I moved seats. That's all it was about. I must say that her choking me in 'fun intoxication' looked to a lot of the audience like a fight. It was not. I just couldn't believe that no one was interceding and saying anything to her. I love her music and respect her as an artist. It was just one of those things. Go figure. Love Carly Carly Simon - 4/10/02 - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:39:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: that incident at a Joni gig NJC Far different story than was related earlier. Carly is a class act. Always has been. Met one of her cousins on Tuesday at the Florida Library Association's Annual Conference in Daytona Beach. Of course, he works for Simon and Schuster! Jerry colin wrote: > Well, Chrissie was a bit intoxicated and was yelling out during Joni's > performance which needless to say, everybody wanted to hear. Chrissie > was sitting right next to me and I asked her > to be a little quieter. No one else would have dared say that to her, > but me, stupid me, didn't know it > was Chrissie. > > She started choking me in a loving way, > saying: "you're great too Carly, get up there, you need to do this too". > Very nice, the only problem being > that it was right in the middle of Joni's song > and people were looking at US. So I moved seats. That's all it was > about. I must say that her choking > me in 'fun intoxication' looked to a lot of > the audience like a fight. It was not. I just couldn't believe that no > one was interceding and saying anything > to her. I love her music and respect her as an > artist. It was just one of those things. Go figure. Love Carly Carly > Simon - 4/10/02 > > -- > bw > colin > DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, > Passap 6000, Duo80. > > colin@tantra-apso.com > http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:40:46 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: the Song I am Living IN Now Hey, I like this thread! Well, I don't know what song i would want to live in at the moment, but right now, it seems that for the last 2 1/2 years I have been living in "Car on a hill". Blair _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:48:35 +0100 From: LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk Subject: RE: The song I'd live in.... Mmmmmm, easy Either Refuge of the Roads or Hejira. ...anything so long as I'm not stuck in one place, starin' at four walls or walking down streets like corridors to more featureless rooms. Les (not enamoured of life in London) I could get used to that! >What do you think? Which lovely tune would you reside in? > >Erica ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:26:52 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Re: the Song I am Living IN Now <> Well Blair, I guess that explains why you gave me your address as "Buick in the corner of the K-Mart lot"! ;~) Bob, who's never had to live in a car but does admit to spending a night or two in one... NP: Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Call Me The Breeze" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:46:43 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: the Song I am Living IN Now Been in a good mood lately, happy with my honey, been listening to the radio more than I normally do, the spring breakers are gone so the beaches are ours again, so I'd have to go with "You Turn Me On, I'm A Radio" If you're lying on the beach With the transistor going Kick off the sandflies honey The love's still flowing Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: hate - and New Hampshire (vljc) Laurent said "The commentator concluded with: "What if the rest of the U.S. declared war on New Hampshire?". I know this is a very serious subject, but I had to laugh at this one. I can't guarantee that the rest of the U.S. would win - except everyone would probably get bored with fighting, decide to go skiing instead, break their legs on some icy White Mountain slope, and go home. And, going back to the original Joni quote, she actually says something rather profound in "don't we get bored." In a certain sense, violence is a somewhat abstract form of entertainment for the general American public, I think. (movies, tv...) Sure, there is violence in the U.S., but to not the scale or for the reasons in other areas of the globe. (Yes, these are generalizations, and there are always exceptions...) Plus, we actually aren't very good, as a nation, at holding a grudge. The news anchor said apologetically the other night "Just one more item in the Middle East briefing..." Kind of like "we'll move on to something more interesting in a minute." Like how to lose weight faster, or something. I'm thinking of another Joni quote "land of short attention spans." We want to flip the channel, this conflict is repetitious and there's "no cease fire in view." It's "just more bang bang, ketchup color to" us. But it's not quite "more Twentieth Century Fox" because there are not characters to follow, no great plot line, and there's no end in site. I'm actually not saying all of this is bad. Even after 9/11, I think we're kind of naive in an innocent sort of way. (Another generalization, I know...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:50:47 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Sex Kills My buddy Scott Price wrote: >During that magical night at the Gorge Amphitheater in 1998 Joni and the >band transformed what to me had previously been a blase examination of >contemporary society into a truly apocalyptic vision...Blade's drumming >rolled through the >song with crescendo after crescendo and created a feeling of turmoil, >which is, I believe, the song's intent...to examine modern perils. Right on, Scott! Sex Kills and Slouching Towards Bethlehem were the concert highlights for me. I *knew* Amelia would be brilliant, but those two came out of left field and knocked me flat. - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:55:24 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: RE: the Song I am Living IN Now NJC I know, I know, Finally everyone can share my wretched lifestyle, oh my Car of SHAME!!!! Blair :) ><hill".>> > >Well Blair, I guess that explains why you gave me your address as "Buick in >the corner of the K-Mart lot"! ;~) > >Bob, who's never had to live in a car but does admit to spending a night or >two in one... > >NP: Lynyrd Skynyrd, "Call Me The Breeze" > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:10:28 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: hate njc At 05:00 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, FredNow@aol.com wrote: > > You say falafel, I say falafel > You say shalom, I say salaam > Falafel, falafel, shalom, salaam > Let's blow the whole thing up! > > -Fred This made me falafel. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:29:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Sex Kills Steve Dulson wrote: > Right on, Scott! Sex Kills and Slouching Towards Bethlehem were the > concert highlights for me. I *knew* Amelia would be brilliant, but > those two came out of left field and knocked me flat. Here is a netiquettely incorrect Me Too. The live Slouching is one of Joni's most brilliant performances. I've listened to it hundreds of times and it still gives me chills. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:01:06 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: birds njc glad to see some interest among out list about birds. there are three species of bluebirds in the north american continent. they are eastern, western, and mtn. bluebirds. the eastern species is found mainly east of the rockies, the western found in the north and southwest, and the mtn bluebird range from alaska to southwest. where you live kate the western and mtn bluebirds overlap during the winter. so it is quite possible, even this time of the year, that you saw a mtn. bluebird. male mtn. blues are all blue, western blues have rusty breasts, and the females of both species look alike. blue jays, there are 6 species of jays in north america. gray, stellar's, blue,scrub,graybreasted, and pinyon. the blue jay is not normally found in calif. something about them not being able to get over the sierras for whatever reason. the two most common jays in calif. are stellar's (higher elevations) and scrub jay (found everywhere but the sierras.) chances are you saw a scrub jay (crestless head, blue wings head and tail, back has a brownish patch). scrub jays are very adaptable creatures very much like crows. i haven't heard the stories about the jays on santa cruz island being successful to the point where they grow to the size of pheasants---------kinda dubious to the story, since size is often attributed to genetics. happy birding and take care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kakki" To: "Kate Bennett" ; Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:35 AM Subject: Re: birds njc > Kate wrote: > > >the other day i saw a bluebird which i thought was unusual...its the jays > that are so common around here... > > That IS unusual - they are usually only found in Northern California or > maybe way up high in the mountains. Have you heard about the blue jays on > Santa Cruz Island? Because they have no predators there they have become > giants, two to three times larger than those on the mainland. It's a > crackup to see them - they almost look like blue pheasants! > > My best friend is a complete bird nut - always with binoculars wherever she > goes. One time while she was visiting LA she said "look a flock of > parrots!" I thought "yeah right" but sure enough they were. There are > thousands of them and other tropical birds on the loose in LA - domestic > escapees and runaways who have found each other and flocked together! > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:26:38 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: The Last Waltz re-release NJC Has anyone else seen the new re-mastered print of "The Last Waltz" yet? I went last night, at the Castro theater in San Francisco, and have to say, they've done one fantastic job. The sound alone is worth the trip to the movies. Plus the visuals are so clear now. But the sound... is amazing. The theater was packed, for a Wednesday evening, and spontaneious audience applause joined that of the audience at Winterland, after several of the musician's songs, notably, Joni's Coyote. What a glorious rock 'n' roll conccert film. Richard in San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:38:15 -0400 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: The Last Waltz re-release The last time I saw Richard was in the Castro in SF and he told me, "you'd better go see Joni in The Last Waltz come Thursday, 'cause it's the last time they're showing the new restored print on the big screen with re-mastered sound." I laughed and said "you must be kidding, it just started showing and already they're quitting? I'd better get to The City, who knows when again it might come around?" :-) So, I'm going to the 9:30 p.m. show tonight at the Castro theater in S.F. (there's a 7:00 show, too). Any Bay Area jmdlers want to meet up at some dark cafe before or after the show? I said "Richard, Richard...thanks for the reminder." - -Julius Richard wrote: Has anyone else seen the new re-mastered print of "The Last Waltz" yet? I went last night, at the Castro theater in San Francisco, and have to say, they've done one fantastic job. The sound alone is worth the trip to the movies. Plus the visuals are so clear now. But the sound... is amazing. The theater was packed, for a Wednesday evening, and spontaneious audience applause joined that of the audience at Winterland, after several of the musician's songs, notably, Joni's Coyote. What a glorious rock 'n' roll conccert film. Richard in San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:46:46 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Last Waltz re-release JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > The last time I saw Richard was in the Castro in SF and he told me, "you'd better go see Joni in The Last Waltz come Thursday, 'cause it's the last time they're showing the new restored print on the big screen with re-mastered sound." I laughed and said "you must be kidding, it just started showing and already they're quitting? I'd better get to The City, who knows when again it might come around?" :-) > > So, I'm going to the 9:30 p.m. show tonight at the Castro theater in S.F. (there's a 7:00 show, too). Any Bay Area jmdlers want to meet up at some dark cafe before or after the show? We better get a review! I remember seeing it in 1979 thinking it was the best Rock and Roll movie ever filmed. Then again, I liked everything back in those stoney days....... Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:45:40 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Hate, NJC Mack wrote: . Not being a big fan of the Arab world myself, I > still don't think the Israelis are blameless. They are just as responsible > for the fighting as the Arabs. From where I am sitting, they make absolutely > no effort to give in at all. It takes two to fight and they are willing to > keep throwing punches themselves> Colin wrote: >This mail is an excellent demonstration as to what causes the troubles in the > first place. Seeing things as 'it's all their fault'. > Simple, unintelligent, black/white thinking, no shades of grey, is just what is > behind this evil. > > Forunately not all Israeli's or Jews think this way just as not all > Palestinians are evil people determined to destroy Israel. Dear Mack and Colin, Could you please point out 1 sign from the Palestinian LEADERSHIP that would indicate they're willing to settle for anything but everything? I think the Israelis have proven by returning land to Egypt that they want peace even if it entails big concessions. All Israeli offers to the Palestinians have been turned down, unless I'm missing something here. The fact that there are moderate intelligent people among Palestinians is really obvious. Maybe even the majority of the people. What you don't see on TV is the TERROR that the Palestinian leaders have been imposing on their own people from the start to make sure those moderates are shut down. The teaching of hate (see my next post) adds fuel to the fire so there are fewer and fewer moderates among the younger generations. I don't hate the Palestinian people, I sincerely pity them because they are the victims of an international chess game in which they're the peons. As I said before, they're the only group of displaced persons in the 20th century that hasn't been relocated and integrated. Let me remind you that in 1970's "black September" King Hussein killed and expelled the PLO from Jordan so he wouldn't be overthrown by an armed terrorist organization. So the PLO went to Lebanon, the former "Switzerland of the arab world". What did they do over there? They ransacked the country and took it over with gun fire and blood. That's the way things happened with their own Arab "brothers". Now they want the world to believe they are peaceful neighbours and Israel should let a Palestinian state army live a few miles from its major cities? If you believe that maybe I can get you interested in buying the Eiffel Tower or a bridge, what do you say? So, I really must insist that you show me 1 sign in the past 50 years that the Palestinian official leadership don't want to wipe Israel from the map, (as Bree pointed out). Not words, but 1 single fact please. I'm not being facetious, I'd love for such an opening to exist. Until then, it's about survival, end of story. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:49:57 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Mind blowing stuff, Teaching of Hate, NJC This was sent to me: > http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27154 > > The above link is to an article by a man named david > Kupelian. he has at the end of the article a link to a > power point slide show shown to palestinian children > in their schools. It is so horrible it made me cry. It > should be showed to the UN. It should be showed on > every major TV station in the west Europe and the US > every bit as much as the Rodney king thing. You wont > believe it when you see it but i heard about it and > now he has linked to it. This is hard to believe but > this is at the root of the Middle east mess. the > article itself is a very good one but the link to the > slide "show" just got me. I'd say enjoy but you cant. > I'm going to go pray. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:47:51 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Teaching of Hate, NJC > CHILDREN OF THE JIHAD > Palestinian kids raised for war > Taught to hate, kill Jews through 'Sesame Street'-type > TV show > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------ > > By Jon E. Dougherty and David Kupelian > > > > Heavily armed Israeli soldiers shooting at innocent > Palestinian children caught in the crossfire. That is > the image that has dominated international press > coverage of the five-week-old wave of violence that > has wracked the Middle East, during which, according > to some accounts, over 40 Palestinian children have > died. > > With each new report of youthful casualties, the > perception of something unthinkable -- that Israeli > soldiers are targeting children -- is reinforced in > media coverage, a great deal of which tends to favor > the perceived underdog in the clashes, namely the > Palestinians. > > The reality is indeed unthinkable, but not in the way > so neatly portrayed by sound-bite media accounts of > Palestinian children being shot by Israeli soldiers. > Indeed, powerful and secret forces are at work in > Palestinian nurseries, preschools, entertainment > venues, classrooms and summer camps - forces that > shape the current and future battles between > Palestinians and Israelis, indeed, make them all but > inevitable. However, up until recently, this amazing > story has for the most part been hidden from Western > eyes. > > Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to > glorify "jihad" (holy war), violence, death and child > martyrdom almost from birth, as an essential part of > their culture and destiny. > > As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced > in 1998, a "Sesame Street"-like children's program > called the "Children's Club" -- complete with puppet > shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters -- > focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a > passion for engaging in and celebrating violence > against them in a perpetual "jihad" until the day the > Israeli flags come down from above "Palestinian land" > and the Palestinian flag is raised. > > > Palestinian children throwing rocks at an Israeli > military vehicle. > > In one song on the "Children's Club," very young > children are shown singing songs about wanting to > become "suicide warriors" and to take up "a machine > gun" to direct "violence, anger, anger, anger" against > Israelis. > > During the show, which features children aged 4-10, > one young boy sings, "When I wander into Jerusalem, I > will become a suicide bomber." Afterward, other > children stand to call for "Jihad! Holy war to the end > against the Zionist enemy." > > In another segment, a boy who appears to be no more > than 8 or 9 years old chants: "My patience has run > out. All Arab existence cries for revenge" against the > Jews in Israel. > > The documentary also juxtaposes the children's > programming with television news reporting, in which > the news anchor - reflecting the same message the > children are receiving -describes Palestinians as > "noble, courageous" fighters, while describing Israel > as "mean, fascist, racist, genocidal" and "Nazis." > > Other "highlights" of the "Children's Club": > > Groups of children are gathered together, shouting for > "Jihad against Israel." > > One girl, who appears to be in a Palestinian school > classroom, sings of donning "battledress" to "attack > the Zionists." > > A small girl chants the now-familiar ditty, "When I > wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide > bomber." > > An adult narrator reads material in a Palestinian > school pamphlet: "I have raised my children for jihad > and on the principle that they never give up on their > land." > > One segment depicts a small boy on the street > chanting, "Revolution until victory." > > Another boy is shown in class proclaiming, "We will > settle our claims with stones and bullets." > > In Palestinian school classrooms, the message is the > same. > > "It's very scary - it's a state-run educational system > that teaches its children to be martyrs," said Meyrav > Wurmser, Ph.D., an expert in Middle East politics who > taught at the U.S. Naval Academy and Johns Hopkins. > Wurmser is the author of the recently published book, > "Schools of Ba'athism," in which she makes a > comprehensive survey and analysis of Syrian school > textbooks. What she found is identical to what goes on > with the Palestinians, she says. > > "In the Palestinian case, what we see is the cynical > use of children, who are exposed to a state-run > ideology that pushes them to their death, in the name > of Palestinian nationalism," she says. "Children are > taught to idealize death, to view it as a positive. In > many cases, they are told that death is not death at > all, but rather the beginning of a new life." > > Wurmser is currently the executive director of The > Middle East Media & Research Institute, or MEMRI, and > has published extensively on the Middle East and Arab > and Israeli politics. > > How can children be sold on dying in battle? > > "The state threatens children if they're not willing > to commit jihad," says Wurmser, "and tells them they > will be punished by God if they do not commit jihad. > If they do commit jihad, they and their families will > be benefited by the state. [Their families] are > promised major financial benefits if they kill > themselves in suicide attacks against Israel." > > To get over the fear, explained Wurmser, "they are > told by their teachers that they're not going to die > at all. There is definitely an element of denial they > are exposed to." > > This is not to say that some parents won't object to > having their children converted to terrorists, says > Wurmser, "but in the more religious families, there is > no sense of sorrow. We see Palestinian mothers who > have lost children - especially parents from very > fundamentalist Muslim backgrounds -- who are not upset > at all, but who say their sons have brought great > honor to their families." This is typical, she says, > of "radical national Arab regimes who have adopted the > Islamic line." > > This shocking assessment was bolstered in an Oct. 27 > Jerusalem Post editorial, in which writer Gerald M. > Steinberg provided details of statements made by > Palestinians to reporters after their children had > been killed in fighting. > > "Interviewed by journalists after [recent] tragedies, > some of the parents of these young victims refer to > their children as shaheeds (martyrs), whose lives were > given willingly and proudly to the Palestinian cause > in fighting the hated Zionist enemy," Steinberg said. > > > Palestinian man teaching children how to fire M-16 > automatic assault rifles. > > "In an unbelievably shocking scene, one mother boasted > that she bore her son precisely for this purpose, and > the father proudly claimed credit for providing the > training. The parents will also receive a sizeable > financial 'reward' from the Palestinian Authority," he > said. > > "For a people who count Abraham (or Ibrahim) among > their ancestors, this willful child sacrifice violates > the fundamental tenets of morality and ethics," said > Steinberg. "The message of Abraham's non-sacrifice of > Isaac was, and remains first and foremost, the > absolute rejection of such practices." > > Middle East sources consulted by WorldNetDaily said > the "Children's Club" is no longer being produced, but > that other programs with similar messages and themes > have taken its place. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:05:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: birds njc Gene wrote: > i haven't heard the stories about the jays on santa cruz island being successful to the point where they grow to the > size of pheasants---------kinda dubious to the story, since size is often > attributed to genetics. I honestly don't know the dimensions of a pheasant but the large (sometimes 1 foot in length from bill to tail) scrub blue jays I've seen on Santa Cruz reminded me of such larger birds. If you are interested in birds of California, the information on the Santa Cruz Island Scrub Jay is fascinating. The California Channel Islands are often called "America's Galapagos" because of the unique sub-species of flora and fauna found there. "The Santa Cruz Island jay is found on no other island, and none have ever been found on the mainland. Its bright blue color, larger size and heavier bill distinguishes it from its mainland counterpart. This bird represents a case of island gigantism. Lack of competition and predators has allowed this island species to utilize resources generally unavailable to mainland jays." from the book "California Channel Islands- 1001 Questions Answered," Marla Daly 1990 "The most distinctive endemic subspecies on the Channel Islanmds is the Scrub jay population confined to Santa Cruz Island...The Santa Cruz Island Scrub Jay is a genetically isolated population limited in its geographic distribution to Santa Cruz Island, Santa Barbara County, California. This insular form is characterized by rather pronouned morpholoogical differentiation from mainland populations of the same species.... was initially described as a distinct species, on the basis of strong morphological contraasts between the insular population and mainland Scrub Jay races (Henshaw 1886).." from the book "The California Islands: Proceedings of a Multidisciplinary Symposium," Dennis M. Power, Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History - 1980 If my scanner was working I could show you a few photos of them. Also, here is a link with more information arbou the unique subspecies of Santa Cruz Island http://www.tnccalifornia.org/our_proj/santa_cruz_island/who.asp Kakki, former docent for the Nature Conservancy Santa Cruz Island Project ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:16:25 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: The Song I Live In Or want to anyway. Easy choice. Make mine "Carey" please. CC _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:28:24 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: The Last Waltz re-release NJC At 2:46 PM -0400 4/11/02, Jerry Notaro wrote: >JRMCo1@aol.com wrote: > >> The last time I saw Richard was in the Castro in SF and he told >>me, "you'd better go see Joni in The Last Waltz come Thursday, >>'cause it's the last time they're showing the new restored print on >>the big screen with re-mastered sound." I laughed and said "you >>must be kidding, it just started showing and already they're >>quitting? I'd better get to The City, who knows when again it >>might come around?" :-) >> >> So, I'm going to the 9:30 p.m. show tonight at the Castro theater >>in S.F. (there's a 7:00 show, too). Any Bay Area jmdlers want to >>meet up at some dark cafe before or after the show? > >We better get a review! I remember seeing it in 1979 thinking it was >the best Rock and Roll movie ever filmed. Then again, I liked >everything back in those stoney days....... > >Jerry I guess this is a NJC post. Is it? I guessed so. Anyway.... Ah... Julius better write a review. It was stoney times for us last night, as we watched one of the greatest concerts ever filmed. I could go to the website of The Last Waltz, and read each song and comment on each performance, but...I had an epiphany of an experience watching it last night. And so ...wasn't thinking "remember this! for the review!". Instead I remember glowing shining moments, that will always be branded into my mind. I found it odd, that... we never see Bill Graham at all during the film. There is a shot of Joni backstage, a silhouette profile, during Neil Young's song "Helpless", with her singing harmony from backstage, that is breathtaking. Her rendition of "Coyote", her facial expressions, the voice and ...omygod! the necklace/choker she wore, with a silver hawk, with its wings spread as the 'centerpiece' was magnificent, as well as other jewelry. Paul Butterfield's "Train" is amazing. Van Morrison: wow. He once was that young, and thin (!). Bob Dylan's performance at the end is breathtaking, and adorable, if I can use that word for him. I even loved Neil Diamond. EmmyLou was SO young too! and so fabulous. The finale with everyone onstage singing "Forever Young" was a pure goosebump experience. Neil Young's face, his ear-to-ear smile, with one arm around Joni, and ...watching Dylan, is priceless. Mostly though, I was in awe of the musicianship of all The Band members, and sadly only a few still alive, who survived. Robbie Robertson's comments at the end, about the wear and tear of 16 years on the road and ...just surviving that, are incredible. Robbie is so articulate and says the most during the interviews. There: a mini-review. Richard, sitting in some dark cafi-corner of his house in San Francisco - ------- The sound in that theater will knock your socks off, Julius. Try to sit dead center. It's an amazing print. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:56:05 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: ""Me and Skeeter" (NJC) I don't know if any of you on the jmdl are on any other strange and wonderful discussion lists, too - - - for interests and passions that might not be to everyone's taste - musically, that is! Sometimes I read a post - where I know the writer is not trying to be funny - but for some reason - maybe because I'm British? - a couple of sentences within a paragraph will just do me in. I experienced this one this morning - (I'll leave you to guess the name of the list): >>>>>> "Me and Skeeter went down to Roxboro to see the Lonesome River Band at the Curvy Theatre. Couldn't figure out what that thing hanging out of Hartgrove's britches was, but everytime he touched it he smiled a little bigger. Half way through the show Skeeter noticed that there was a wire running to it and it looked like it was connected to his ears. Whateveer it was he kept messing with it and smiling and it shore made his fiddle sound better." >>>>>> eeeee! I needed that! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:11:02 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Another Joni in lit reference Hey Smurf, Looks like another one for you: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530251846 "As Lorna searches for acceptance in her teen years - buoyed by Shindig! and Joni Mitchell - she must also disentangle herself from her beloved sister's wild and morbid underworld." Bob NP: Branford Marsalis, "Elysium" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:02:53 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: the last waltz, in nyc the descriptions are killing me. it opens in new york tomorrow at the union square stadium 14. anyone want to try and see it this weekend? Debra, Emily, Kay? i'd particularly like to see it this way because I'VE NEVER SEEN IT! i know, horrors, how dare i call myself a joni mitchell fan, etc. etc. i'm ready to make amends. patrick np - glass - string quartet #5 - kronos [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:12:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Fw: Ask Carly - Carly's take on 'the Fez incident' sjc Well I tried to send this to the list but my beloved husband changed our email address in keeping with GTE's changing to Verizon and it never got there. Colin has already posted Carly's answer so some of you might want to skip it. I was the one who asked the question to begin with. Mark E in Seattle Carly Simon's website has an 'ask Carly' section where you can send questions and if they are deemed worthy of her time & attention, Carly will answer them. Her answer is posted on the website. I have sent 2 or 3 questions that I thought were reflective of my sincere appreciation of Carly's music and never gotten a response. So partly out of frustration at seemingly being ignored I asked: 'So what really happened between you & Chrissie Hynde at the Fez several years ago when Joni Mitchell played there?' Lo and behold, this was in my email today: Carly has answered your question. Please check the website to read her response. NOTE: She didn't understand the reference to Chrissie and Joni at first, so I expanded your question to give her a better reference. Since many people reading the question would probably need an idea of what you were referring to, I posted the modified version. Hope you don't mind! Great question, btw. Thanks for writing, Jodie webmaster@carlysimon.com Here is my 'expanded' question and Carly's response. Q One of the downsides of the Internet is that misinformation stays up there forever. Whenever I do a search on "Carly Simon", I inevitably get a link to a story about you and Chrissie Hynde getting into a fight at a concert. So I'm wondering what really happened between you & Chrissie Hynde at the Fez several years ago when Joni Mitchell played there? Markly - Shoreline, Washington A Well, Chrissie was a bit intoxicated and was yelling out during Joni's performance which needless to say, everybody wanted to hear. Chrissie was sitting right next to me and I asked her to be a little quieter. No one else would have dared say that to her, but me, stupid me, didn't know it was Chrissie. She started choking me in a loving way, saying: "you're great too Carly, get up there, you need to do this too". Very nice, the only problem being that it was right in the middle of Joni's song and people were looking at US. So I moved seats. That's all it was about. I must say that her choking me in 'fun intoxication' looked to a lot of the audience like a fight. It was not. I just couldn't believe that no one was interceding and saying anything to her. I love her music and respect her as an artist. It was just one of those things. Go figure. Love Carly Carly Simon - 4/10/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:42:56 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: "For The Roses" Open letter to Michael Paz: I just bought a promo copy of FTR! You're one of a small handful of people who'll appreciate this. Everyone else is saying, "That's nice, Jim." DAMN! Whooo hooo! How many times have I checked eBay for this title? Now I can start saving for a better table and arm! That piano! You know what it is about that piano? I think it's her dramatic sense on the attacks. Silence..... POW! POW! POW! POWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!............ Silence. Ya know, you and I always sorta waxed nostalgic about this one ("For The Roses") in conversation but we haven't really discussed it. Thoroughly. I feel another hyper post coming on.......... Lama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:56:22 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #154 - one or two new CDs > > BTW, the idea of releasing > > the new recordings as two separately released discs is totally screwed > up. > > hey guys, i have never heard this before. someone ...please...help me out, > what's the deal !?!?! ( 2 cd's ? ) > > warren keith The possibility of releasing the new recordings as two separately released CDs was mentioned in one of the recent articles, the NY Times I think. The way the article was written, it seemed like maybe a 50-50 chance. Anyway, a dumb idea, on par with releasing "The Crazy Cries of Love" single to rock stations (but not to smooth jazz) or the "Both Sides Now" single to rock stations. Anyway, I'll guess they'll hire me when they want me to make the marketing choices. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:54:38 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: RE: Later Day Joni Fred said ``Musically speaking, Joni's note choices are just not as inspired or interesting as they once were, to my ears, and they haven't been for a long time. I feel that her first eight studio albums exhibited a melodic/harmonic gift rarely matched by anyone, ever.... `` Certainly not a heretic Fred, but your comments got me thinking about Joni's highs and post Heijira lows, and just to reassure myself, I came up with the following list of later day, great Joni songs I *absolutely* love, as much as any of her earlier work. While I concede that the excercise is entirely subjective, may I suggest: Jericho Tax Free Three Great Stimulants Good Friends The Beat of Black Wings Night Ride Home Passion Play Cherokee Louise Magdelene Launderies Slouching Towards Bethlehem Two Grey Rooms The Sire of Sorrow Think of a world without these songs ; I rest my case! Michaelo NP: Shirley Eikhard - Going Home ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:14:22 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Later Day Joni - Confession I must admit, I had left Joni for a while after she came out with Shadows and Light. I had just lost interest in what she was doing. I know, I know ... blasphemy! When I heard Two Grey Rooms though .... I felt reconnected with Joni. I'm not sure why, but for me this song echoes Joni's earlier work. Just my 2 cents, Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of michael o'malley Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:55 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Later Day Joni Fred said ``Musically speaking, Joni's note choices are just not as inspired or interesting as they once were, to my ears, and they haven't been for a long time. I feel that her first eight studio albums exhibited a melodic/harmonic gift rarely matched by anyone, ever.... `` Certainly not a heretic Fred, but your comments got me thinking about Joni's highs and post Heijira lows, and just to reassure myself, I came up with the following list of later day, great Joni songs I *absolutely* love, as much as any of her earlier work. While I concede that the excercise is entirely subjective, may I suggest: Jericho Tax Free Three Great Stimulants Good Friends The Beat of Black Wings Night Ride Home Passion Play Cherokee Louise Magdelene Launderies Slouching Towards Bethlehem Two Grey Rooms The Sire of Sorrow Think of a world without these songs ; I rest my case! Michaelo NP: Shirley Eikhard - Going Home ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #155 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?