From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #121 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 18 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 121 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- (njc) Shakira [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Today in History: March 17 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: March 17 [les@jmdl.com] (njc) Don't bogart that commercial, dude! [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] (njc) Re: Votin' and Jury Dutyin' and livin' and top o' the green to all o' you [BigWaltinSF] RE: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Bruce Babbitt NJC [Deb Messling ] Re: NJC from politics to religion ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Judee Sill njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... ["S.M. Roque" ] Re: (njc) Shakira [Catherine McKay ] Re: Me too!, njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Me too!, njc [colin ] Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people [Randy Remote ] Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC [Randy Remote ] Indigo Girls on CNN (Njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] freedom vs regulation njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Shakira, King of Argentina [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] (njc) Glad I stopped teaching '50's Math in '84 [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Trouble in Barcelona(njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Painting With Words and Music [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Bush (NJC) Long/Last [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: freedom vs regulation njc [anne@sandstrom.com] Bits and Pieces of bad news(njc) and a hopeful story. [BigWaltinSF@aol.co] nJc of the people [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters [Michael Paz ] the real (beautiful mind)? njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Reporting from Asheville(njc) [Michael Paz ] Re: Kind words for Dolly(njc) [RobSher50@aol.com] allison and the olympic flame (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: allison and the olympic flame (njc) [Michael Paz ] sorry njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Was: No Subject/Now: Joni mentions [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:05:06 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Shakira Just watching MAD TV, and a singer is on, named Shakira. Can't quite figure her out. Okay, song's over. Sorry, didn't catch the name of it. Shakira, who is lovely and looks to be 20-something, suffers a tad from the melismatic flatulance of several recent discussions, but her singing style, and the genre of music itself, was hard to classify. It was more than bubblegum pop, and the song she sang changed tempo several times. At times she sounded a bit CW, at others, girl-singer, at other times, kind of pop-rocky. Even her clothing seemed to be a mixed message -- leather halter top and (I swear) what looked like an early k.d. lang cowgirl skirt, green material with lace. I admit I'd not heard of this young woman before tonight, and she held up playing herself in a silly skit -- so anyone know who she is? Just curious, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:10:19 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: March 17 On March 17 in Joni Mitchell History: 1967: Joni is (still) in Philadelphia and is interviewed again today by Ed Sciaky. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/670317wmmr.cfm 1988: Today, Timothy White interviewed Joni in a studio in North Hollywood. The interview remained unpublished until it was later used in a book called "Rock Lives". More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/880317rl.cfm - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database at http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:10:19 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: March 17 On March 17 the following articles were published: 1967: "Interview with Ed Sciaky" - WMMR (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/670317wmmr.cfm 1988: "Joni Mitchell Interview" - Book (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/880317rl.cfm 1991: "Joni Mitchell Finds The Peace of Middle Age" - New York Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/910317nyt.cfm 1998: "Morrison Rejoins Tour" - Addicted To Noise website (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/980317atn.cfm - ------------------------ http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:15:16 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Don't bogart that commercial, dude! As part of a discussion of the Bush administration's use of a commercial suggesting that people who use "recreational" drugs are supporting terrorism, Colin asked: <> Yes. He just never exhaled. Cheers, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:00:50 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Re: Votin' and Jury Dutyin' and livin' and top o' the green to all o' you Hi, Anne, As part of a longer post, you wrote: << This is one of my pet peeves! I've ALWAYS voted, except once when I was in the hospital a few days longer than expected. >> One of my proudest days was in '91, when on election day, I was *also* serving jury duty -- two citizeny things on one day. The sad thing was that day, I got pulled onto a jury for a juicy civil case -- only to find out, at the end of closing arguments, when I went to a pay phone to check my voice mail, that my lover had died that same afternoon. Barely managed to avoid slumping to the floor (it was not unexpected, he'd been sick with AIDS for some time, but still). The next day, the judge kindly and quickly dismissed me. I debated whether to post this to the whole list because, although I've always considered myself sort of lucky (no, really -- I discussed this with Wally Kai, who confirmed astrological readings I've had done earlier in my life that I am rocked by things, but always bounce back; only in retrospect does my life sometimes strike me as being occasionally a little over the top - -- it sounds sort of miserable, almost implausibly so -- but it doesn't *feel* that way, most of the time). I admire your sensible, peaceable input into the sometimes caustic political discussions. Hope you're feeling okay. Things are hectic here at the moment, as I'm sure you've inferred from some of my posts! But I'm tougher than hell, and I sense that you are, too. "Must be the Irish blood," to quote a poet. Happy St. Patrick's Day on Sunday, Anne and everybody, when we're all Irish. :-) hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:40:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC >>I'm really hesitant to ask this question and I'm not aiming it at you specialifcally Kate, because others here, too, have made these allusions to "corporations" here quite a lot with the implication that they are the root of all evil. What is this all about?<< I don't think corporations are evil, nor do I think lobbyists are evil. But I do think that corporate interests & lobbyists have an enormous influence over our elected officials because that is where so much of the money comes from for political campaigns. I think if we had some serious campaign reforms then this would actually move us toward the ideal of a government by the people, for the people. I've seen how this works on a smaller level as an educational fundraiser for ten years. Its common knowledge in the fundraising world that corporations give money & expect something back for it. No one thinks this is evil or corrupt, its just the way things are. Business. So if you aren't willing or able to give the corporation what they want then you won't be accepting or even requesting their money. Oftentimes what a corporation wants is some publicity, sometimes they want more of an influence on how things are done. Sometimes the publicity they want is to be associated with an altruistic cause that helps to balance out their corporate image such as an oil company that provides funding to environmental programs. Does this help to answer your question, at least as far as I see it? >>Revolution and redistribution has already been tried before in the past 80 years and its fruit has been the death, slaughter and deprivation of tens of millions of human beings. It doesn't have a good track record. I've read some that some think it can finally work here in the U.S. because there is so much wealth and resources to pick off. I think that it an extremely dangerous illusion. Or is it just a radical posture to keep certain sectors of the society on their toes and I'm being too alarmed by it all?<< I don't know anything about people calling for a revolution so I can't pretend to know how to answer this question. To me, revolution means violence & my belief has always been that violence is not the way. Not anymore. >>I got over not having a lot of money and every material thing I desired long ago, like in my early 20s. Life is much more than having resentment against what someone else has and life is way to short to be obsessed with "getting my fair share."<<< Absolutely. I was just talking with some friends about the subject of desire (of things). It came about as the result of talking about Yogananda's teachings & other eastern kinds of thoughts. But that is a whole other subject! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:26:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Rufus Wainwright in concert (NJC) Richard & Jerome, Thanks for your wonderful reviews...you have me so excited to see Rufus who I just found out is coming to my town in a month or so...we have a really cool singer/songwriter series here in a small intimate venue with great sound...I hope he brings all his family & pals! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:37:59 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Me too!, njc We just got back from Rome, and it seemed to us that the Italians do eat a lot! Due to our delicate American appetites, we had to sheepishly ask to share portions of food while the locals around us were devouring mass quantities. Yet, they were thin and we are not. Go figure! We thought Italy was enchanting, and the people were great. We were in England in 1999, and fell in love with that country, too. At 08:07 PM 3/16/02 -0500, Heather wrote: >Have you ever been to Italy?? My gawd ... people eat all the time >there! The portions were not that small! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 05:41:40 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Bruce Babbitt NJC Somebody on the list mentioned that Bruce Babbitt was missing. We found a broken link on Google alluding to the story, but nothing else. Does anyone have an update on this story? Was it just a false alarm? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:01:52 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC from politics to religion >Anyway, that's the short description. From what I've >said, does anyone know if this belief system is >expressed in any known religion? Hi Anne, Sounds like you are describing Pantheism. Pantheism:The view according to which God and world are one. Which stems as Kate said from Indian philosophy. There are people who would argue that Pantheism in its strictest sense, i.e. is atheism. Their argument would be that if God is changeable or evolving therefore this would make Him or IT finite. Not GOD. Interesting stuff to ponder!! Take Care, Bree > >lots of love >Anne _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:10:30 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: HSPD! NJC May you work like you don't need the money, Love like you've never been hurt,and Dance like no one is watching. Happy St. Patricks Day to ALL!!! Bree _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:50:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Judee Sill njc If anyone is a fan of the music of the late Judee Sill, there's a guy in the UK named Bob Claster who has posted on his website a whole lot of mp3s that you can download gratis. These are outtakes and demoes, as well as songs recorded live from various concerts. You can find these at http://www.webnoir.com/bob/music/ In some, her voice is quite fine - in others, she sounds pretty wrecked, but the music is still wonderful. ______________________________________________________________________ Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:56:11 -0500 From: "S.M. Roque" Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... WARREN901@aol.com wrote: >hello joinitites ! i wanted to let walt know that the song "suzanne" >was >written by leonard cohen. speaking of leonard, someone mentioned >a photo >in an earlier post of joni and leonard at the newport folk >festival in >"67. (the photo was by david gahr.) i have a small paper >back book >entitled, "joni mitchell: her life, her loves, her music, " >by leonore >fleischer , published in 1976. it is filled with wonderful >photos >including the one mentioned in the post. i received it from a >friend the >year it was published and have always cherished it for the >photos. ( said >friend was constanly picking up " little joni >things " for me .) the >book is in a 7" x 10" format and was published >by flash books, is anyone >familair with it ? ( i always thought it >odd that her music was the last >thing mentioned in the title. perhaps >it was the way that it rolled off >the tongue that was important !) Warren, Back in the mid '80's, when I used to hang out at the listening library at Lincoln Center in New York City, I searched for any text about Joni. They did have a copy of Leonore Fleischer's Joni bio, "Joni Mitchell: Her Life, Her Loves, Her Music". I do remember enjoying the photos, but the text had it's share of misinformation, as I suspect many bios have. If I remember correctly, Fleischer claimed that "Free Man In Paris" was about Leonard Cohen, not David Geffen...but it's been a long time since I had the book in my grubby little hands! Sylvia, Humble Moderator of the Joni Mitchell Fan Forum at- http://forums.delphiforums.com/JoniMitchell/start _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:01:12 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: (njc) Shakira Walt asks: "I admit I'd not heard of this young woman before tonight, and she held up playing herself in a silly skit -- so anyone know who she is?" Walt, Walt, Walt. You just must watch MTV! As the parent of an adolescent daughter I am down with all the current pop stars, even as I hear the footsteps of approaching middle age. (people do live to be 100,right?) Shakira is apparently an international pop star of some considerable note. She is a native of Colombia, and her previous work has been in Spanish. Now she's cashing in on the U.S. market and has just released her first English language record, and she seems to be working hard to promote it. From the 2 or 3 songs I have heard, her work is a cut above the basic belly button brigade of blonde girl singers - I believe she does most of her own songwriting, for whatever that is worth in this day and age. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:32:12 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: (njc) Shakira - --- Sybil Skelton wrote: > Shakira is apparently an international pop star of > some considerable note. > She is a native of Colombia, and her previous work > has been in Spanish. Now > she's cashing in on the U.S. market and has just > released her first English > language record, and she seems to be working hard to > promote it. From the 2 > or 3 songs I have heard, her work is a cut above the > basic belly button > brigade of blonde girl singers - I believe she does > most of her own > songwriting, for whatever that is worth in this day > and age. Have you actually listened to the lyrics? They can be quite funny - I understand Gloria Estefan collaborated in translating some of Shakira's songs into English, so am not sure whether these are literal translations or just words that fit nicely with the music (perhaps a bit of both?) In her song, "Whenever, Whatever" (I think that's its name), she sings: "Even though my breasts are small and humble So you won't confuse them with mountains" They read these out on a local radio show where they do a bit called "Disc-lexia" from time to time (people's misunderstanding of songs lyrics, along the lines of "Scuse me while I kiss this guy") - and everyone wanted to know what the REAL words were - as it turned out, those WERE the real words. ______________________________________________________________________ Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:05:57 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Me too!, njc >We just got back from Rome, and it seemed to us that the Italians do eat a >lot! Due to our delicate American appetites, we had to sheepishly ask to >share portions of food while the locals around us were devouring mass >quantities. Maybe it is just the French and Brits that eat small portions? I love the Italian people and someday would like to visit. I have heard that authentic Italian food that they use very little sauce on their pasta. True? I like gobs! Bree > > > >At 08:07 PM 3/16/02 -0500, Heather wrote: >>Have you ever been to Italy?? My gawd ... people eat all the time >>there! The portions were not that small! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:48:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Me too!, njc > been to England a few times and I, for one, have always been delighted, > indeed, to discover a veritable surplus of lovely dells and perfectly > charming little glades. I have yet to see Scotland. i told it is tunning. Strangely, i ahve seen more of other countries than Britain! > > > Take care. > > XO, > > --Bob - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:56:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people I don't always agree with your view of things, but I know for sure that the world would be a better place if everyone had the level of concern and involvement that you do. And I do think that we all have in common an interest in a better world for ourselves and our brothers and sisters. RR Kakki wrote: > My apologies to all who were offended. Some the cynicism and sense of > absurdity around here has started to rub off on me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:15:28 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC this is from albert camus, who wrote in "la peste": "the evil that is in the world always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack undertanding. on the whole, men are more good than bad; that, however, isn't the real point. but they are more or less ignorant, and it is this that we call vice or virtue; the most incorrigible vice being that of an ignorance that fancies it knows everything and therefore claims for itself the right to kill." this is from me, corporations are an invention of man to escape individual responibilities for a greater profit. someone should be held responible for the fiasco at enron, somone should be responsible for the savings and loan fraud years ago, someone should be responsible for for the raping of california during the so called energy crisis. it cracks me up a guy can go to prison for many years holding up a kentucy fried chicken, but someone who steals millions and ruins hundreds of lives get their hand slapped. later gene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:34:16 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long/Last Damn Susan,did you enjoy spanking me or what!! ;-0 >Well Bree, I just can't think that I have to bend over and take it as each >"little" freedom gets >whittled away. Believe me.. I share your sentiments. Are you of the same mindset when it comes to guns and e-checks? I hate this:The city I live in forces me to buy these little stickers so I can get rid of MY leafs and tree clippings. (I find secret little ways to get around this though) >Search and seizure laws and unwarranted searchess come to >mind. See a trend yet? These things send me over the edge. They start >out so subtle and slow >and miniscule and before you know it - POOF - they're gone! And finally, I >have heard about >Israel's airport security. I don't live there, I live in America, and I'm >going to hold them to >their promise of freedom and rights. I don't mind most of what goes on for >securities sake, but I >think it 's beginning to spin out of control the other way. It is a different world now after 9/11.....Israel's enemies are our enemies.(which they were before 9/11 but now the stamp is in place) And don't you think we need to implement some of what they have in place at their airports? Sure it is an intrusion!! But what is the alternative? > >Bree wrote: >Americans plain & simple love their fast cars & big SUVs. These electric >cars that go 50mph are >not feasible and are ugly to boot. And believe me If I had children I >would have an SUV because >they are safe. > >But this is where Americans get their bad rap. This image is gluttonous. Frankly, I don't give a rats ass what THEY think of us. Cars are a part of Americana. I personally like sports cars with a manual four speed..hence, much horse power. I like the way they look;sleek,low to the ground. They are aesthetically pleasing to me. Americana:When my sisters would date and their boyfriends would come to my parents house for the first time the question usually was...."What does he look like and what kind of car is he driving?" If you try to dictate what those soccer moms can drive,well then, you really will have a revolution. :-( I think it is just dangerous and un-American to stifle creativity in any way. To force engineers who design cars that they must meet even more government standards and criteria is wrong. Wrong for America!! The whittling away effect you wrote so eloquently about?? >go faster than 50mph and I believe they are there or nearly. Secondly, how >about those kids you >are so concerned about racing around at 70 80 90mph. In the city 50 is >about as fast as you can >go with 30 - 45 for most city driving. Highway driving 55 - 65, can't >believe the technology >won't get there. This is a fact:The average flow of traffic in the city in which I live, as you know is Cincinnati, is 75/80mph. I'm talking about expressway driving. Now if they can come up with an electric car that looks sporty and has the capabilities to go the speed that's needed to maneuver in and out of traffic,I might opt for that car. And I'm all for some government incentives for people who CHOOSE the more efficient car. >Oh and they are ugly!? Is that really part of your argument? Yes!!! I make no bones about it. One of my favorite cars I ever had was a cherry red Camero:Big block engine,4 speed,black interior,mags. Damn!! It was gorgeous!! Unfortunately, it met and early demise and hopefully.. it is somewhere with Ray's Dad's Cadillac. It's partly what we're used to - >and partly because they are still in their infancy. Also, I am not sure as >to how safe SUVs are >if you are in a car and get hit by one or if we were all driving them >wouldn't it all kind of be a >wash? >of these reasons pretty superficial. Sorry, I disagree with you to >the utmost Bree, but I will >defend to the death your RIGHTS to say it (or something like that). As I wrote to Randy.. the word I should have used is *safer*. Disagree with personal choice? Thanks,I know you would defend my rights as well I would yours. IS it nobler to something about the slings and.... Huh? Take care, Bree >Peace >Susan >Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage >http://sports.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:41:30 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC Kakki, I know you are getting burned out, don't feel obliged to respond- Kakki wrote: > others here, too, have made these allusions to > "corporations" here quite a lot with the implication that they are the root > of all evil. What is this all about? Are all corporations evil, even the > ones who process and deliver our food to us, the ones who bring us > alternative energy, the ones who bring us medicine, the ones who bring us > everything most need to live their lives. Are all lobbyists evil, even the > ones who lobby for the environment, like the Sierra Club or education or for > consumer protections? Corporations to me are really just collectives of > people, although not everyone is paid equally no matter what they put in. Not really. A corporation is a legal entity. One thing that is wrong with corporations is that the people running them can make bad, illegal or rapacious decisions, and the can hide behind the shield of protection a corporation provides. They are not personally liable. Another problem is that, by virtue of it's structure, a corporation is ruled by the bottom line, it's quarterly earnings. A couple repercussions of this are that, lets say a corporate CEO wants to follow his conscience and maybe pay his Indonesian sweatshop works $2 a day instead of $1. He can be ousted and replaced by someone who will do what is neccesary to maximize profits. Or, a new CEO comes in, slashes thousands of jobs, the quarterly earnings increase, stock goes up, he and his pals ditch in their golden parachutes, the workers are screwed, the company possibly ruined. This has become a whole genre for certain executives. There is a movement for corporate reform or abolishment as we know it. It's the structure. Someone starting a business (that's large enough to warrant it) would be foolish not to incorporate because of the advantages. > > Sure there are lobbyists who are corrupt but not all lobbyists and there are > laws or can be laws to regulate them. You can't legally bribe a judge or cop that is enforcing the law. You CAN bribe a politician that is making the laws. It goes by the name of lobbying, campaign contributions, etc. but very often amounts to the same thing. To say that these groups do not get a return on their investment in the form of special consideration would be ludicrous. Politicians should be untouchable, we need to take the money out of the equation, and make it a serious crime to try to buy favor. I have read recently that, like payola or whatever they call it these days, corporations are getting tired of the system, too, and feel caught in it. They contribute to both sides, feeling they have to in order to get their agendas met. > People who depend on their job to put > food on their table and a roof over their head. They could still have jobs, maybe better conditions if things were restructured. The trend in America in the last decade or so has been longer hours, less (or no) benefits, exporting jobs. > I read about these > organizations who vilify the "corporation" and wonder what this vilification > does to improve or enhance our community. Corporations are frequently very poor members of the community. Locally, the Pacific Lumber Company, previously a model for sustainable forestry, was victim of a hostile takeover by the preditory Maxxam Corporation.. First move was to gut the workers pension fund. Next move was to start liquidating the main assets (ancient redwood forests) to pay off the huge 'junk bond' debt used to buy the company. This is one example, not an isolated one, I'm afraid. Enron. The papers say the heads of the company will probably not get jail time, that what they did may not have even been illegal, but, had they robbed a store instead of ripping off millions and screwing their own workers, they would have been in trouble. Is it any wonder people say there is something wrong with this picture? > They wish the downfall of > millions of peoples' livelihoods? Probably a third of the people in the > U.S. if not more, work for corporations. Sure it is not neccessaily fun to > have to go sit in a office 8 hours a day when we'd rather be off doing what > we really love to do. Sure we'd all rather have a bigger nicer house like > the boss, but that is not all there is to life. Hasn't it always been that > way since the beginning of time - people have to work, often hard, to make a > living and survive? I get the feeling that these anit-coporate types think > they have some better enlightened answer to it all but I'll be damned if I > can figure it out, other than that they want a complete revolution As George Harrison's cartoon character in Yellow Submarine said "It's all in the mind" Revolution, that is. > and > forced redistribution of the "wealth." Jello Biafra (political activist, Dead Kennedys) believes we should put a $100,000 cap on earnings. My problem with this is, who runs it? You're back to a bureaucracy like Russia. Don't know what the answer is. Bill Gates has an obscene $90 billion. Others starve. You tell me. Kakki wrote: Then I grew up and actually worked in a few > of those big corporations and military industrial concerns, There > are also layers upon layers of laws that prevent them from having some kind > of special "in" with the government. > The laws that are in place will eventually and do get the ones > who are out of line everytime, trust me. You can't seriously be contending that corporations do not have influence and privledge in the halls of power, and that they never get away with anything! I mean, really...... RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:23:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: (njc) Shakira shakira is from colombia. she's antonio de la rua's ''beard''. [do you know what a ''beard is''?] antonio de la rua is the gay son of former president fernando de la rua. shakira has been dating antonio for quite some time. a recent shakira video features antonio and shakira dancing to one of her annoying tunes. because of the antipathy that people feel for de la rua, tower records argentina has put up signs in stores announcing that they don't sell shakira products. cool, really. shakira is unbearable. she uses the celtic hiccup -- popularized by that cranberries woman -- ad nauseam. her roots show too. she should consider a new hair stylist. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:25:33 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Indigo Girls on CNN (Njc) Hi, all, Just was watching CNN Headline news, and the Indigo Girls were interviewed and sang most of one of their new songs from the new album. Very lovely, acoustic sound. Thought I'd let any other fans know. Probably not news to those of you who are, but just in case. warmly, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:38:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: freedom vs regulation njc >>I think it is just dangerous and un-American to stifle creativity in any way. To force engineers who design cars that they must meet even more government standards and criteria is wrong. Wrong for America!! The whittling away effect you wrote so eloquently about??<< Well you won't get any argument from me about the stiffling of creativity! However, concerning the subject of our human freedoms (in this case car choice) & protecting the environment, I do feel there have to be regulations in place which help to balance things out. Keeping the balance is as important for our own survival. We need open land, clean air, clean water, trees for oxygen, etc. >>The average flow of traffic in the city in which I live, as you know is Cincinnati, is 75/80mph.>> Well this helps explain a lot about my husband who loves to drive fast & scares the heck out of me. He grew up in your part of the world. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:48:46 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Shakira, King of Argentina Yo, Wally, Thanks for the bitchy behind-the-scenes on Shakira. So, she's a fag-hag, cut-and-paste job. That's why she so confused me. She *did* have the Cranberries hiccup -- I just couldn't get a hold on what she was trying to accomplish with such a weird combo of sounds and clothing styles -- one second C&W (and that skirt!!!), next she's a humping Madonna. What the hell? And if she's serious about being a beard, she should marry the little queen, and become the next king of Argentina! Anyway, thanks for the poop on miss thing. Teehee, hugs, walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:15:44 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Glad I stopped teaching '50's Math in '84 TEACHING MATH DURING YOUR LIFETIME Teaching Math in 1950's: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit? Teaching Math in 1960's: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit? Teaching Math in 1970's: A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of the set "M." The set "C", the cost of production contains 20 fewer points than set "M." Represent the set "C" as a subset of set "M" and answer the following question: What is the cardinality of the set "P" of profits? Teaching Math in 1980's: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20. Teaching Math in 1990's: By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down the trees? There are no wrong answers. Teaching Match in 2000's: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that his profit margin is $60? (W -- There are only wrong answers.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:19:26 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Trouble in Barcelona(njc) Hi, Mike, Hope all is well with you and yours -- sorry to hear of riots in your adopted and beloved city. Please let us all know you're okay. concerned, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:30:15 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Painting With Words and Music For the Bay Area listers able to tune in: the PBS station, KQED is showing Join's "Painting with Words and Music" tonight at 10pm. Since I'm getting ready to settle in for a Sunday afternoon nap and it's not interfering with the Simpson's, I think I'm going to tune in. MG np: Jeff babbling some nonsense about "March Madness" (that's nice, dear) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:27:39 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long/Last > I think it is just dangerous and un-American to stifle creativity in any > way. To force engineers who design cars that they must meet even more > government standards and criteria is wrong. Wrong for America!! The > whittling away effect you wrote so eloquently about?? Actually, I would think that engineers would like the challenge. (Sorry that I'm jumping in after not reading every post in this thread.) I don't see anything wrong with challenging engineers to create something within guidelines. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: freedom vs regulation njc > >>The average flow of traffic in the city in which I live, as you know is > Cincinnati, is 75/80mph.>> You must have better roads than we do. Well, actually, there are places where we don't really have roads anymore. The "Big Dig" probably won't be done in any of our lifetimes. And then there are potholes big enough to swallow a VW Bug. I'd recommend listening to Greg Greenway's song about driving in Massachusetts. Pretty funny, and he gets it right :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:43:16 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Bits and Pieces of bad news(njc) and a hopeful story. Hi, all, I haven't been down there yet, but in case you're familiar with San Francisco's Wharf/Ghiradelli Square district: The Cannery has burned down. I'm going to try to get down there today if I can -- my hands and feet aren't cooperating today, but I'm stubborn, and I'll make it down there before dark today. Sad, sad. Hope the rest of the area is okay -- I know it's touristy, but I still go there a lot to enjoy the view -- especially of Alcatraz from G. Square. And I do so love the chocolate there! Also, we were just discussing Sigourney Weaver the other day -- her dad died last night. Sylvester "Pat" Weaver was a pioneer in TV -- involved with NBC's Today show from its inception, and was head or President of NBC until her retired. I think they said he was 93. And in a separate note to Mike Pritchard, I noted that there was brief mention of riot after an international economic meeting in Barcelona. Hope he, and most of that beautiful City, are in one piece -- and *at* peace. On a lighter note: Had a pleasant moment on a city bus the other day. It was dusk, late rush hour Friday evening, and the bus I was on was crushed to the frafters already, when a large group of kids, aged 13 to 15, got on. They were Arabic speaking, and whether by design or coincidence, all dressed the same (dark grey or black sweats, hooded jackets). The thought must have crossed several peoples' minds (as it would any city-dweller's mind): gang? Several of the other middle-aged people (besides me) were shooting nervous glances at each other. Well, I speak all of about 12 words of Arabic, but I did chuckle when one of the kids called to another, addressing him as "toothpick" -- in English (that had frequently been my nickname as a kid). The kid looked at me, decided to smile back, and then asked me if i could tell him where the Kabuki Cinema was. I swear, you could feel the whole bus relax. I gave the kids directions, we chatted about what movie they were going to see (it was between The Time Machine and that Eddie Murphy-De Niro cop farce -- they decided on the latter), and when their stop came, I called out for the guys going to the Kabuki to get off (they were somewhat spread out throughout the bus). They did, and as the last kid was getting off, I told him to cross the street, and there it would be. Several of the kids waved at me from the street as the bus pulled away. Happy and peaceful St. Patrick's Day to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:59:22 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: nJc of the people Dear Vince, You wrote: I am hearing on the news that when John Walker Lindh found out about the attacks on America, he became very disillusioned with Al-Queda and the Taliban but could not leave for fear of his life. I'm not sure how everyone feels about John Walker Lindh, but as for me, I had not considered this possible scenario. I'm curious how a judge and/or court will look at this new information. Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:10:22 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters Happy St. Patrick's Day to all of you Little Green people! What is this announcement? Is this a documentary? Who done it? All my heart goes out to all of you in SF with that terrible fire last night. Paz (Kiss me I'M Irish!) on 3/14/02 12:47 AM, Paul Castle at pdcmusic@freeuk.com wrote: >> Tuesday, March 26 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 1 >> Tuesday, April 2 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 2 > > Thanks so much for posting all this wonderful news, Simon - > If anyone has the time (and facilities) to make a copy > on PAL, I would be happy to send the 'loonies' and > would be eternally grateful. > >> PS: there may? be a 4th. > > May the 4th be with you! > > PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:11:57 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC Fred Have you ever seen this on CD (Blows Against The Empire) anywhere? I love this record and still have the LP (but my table is broke). I don't believe I have ever seen this in a cd store. I also love the artwork on this record. Best Paz on 3/14/02 3:17 PM, FredNow@aol.com at FredNow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/14/02 3:52:27 PM, Fauchja writes: > >> There was a question of what of Grace to listen to...Blows against the >> Empire is great, or her first solo disc Manhole is available on import. > > Blows Against the Empire is a favorite of mine, but mostly I prefer Grace > with the Airplane on all her albums through Volunteers of America. After that > it falls off drastically for me although there are good scattered moments. > > Peak Grace for me is Surrealistic Pillow, because that's where it started, > but even more so After Bathing At Baxter's, Crown of Creation, and Bless It's > Pointed Little Head. > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:48 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: the real (beautiful mind)? njc Have read the posts concerning the character that Crowe plays in the movie. The man it is based on is on 60 minutes for those interested. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:37 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: VG8 - njc There is some sound but as Marian had already responded the amplified sound drowns it out. This is why it won't work with an acoustic guitar. There is also some sort of glitch in the software that sometimes reproduces the sound audibly, but I have not had that problem lately. I have purchased another Parker guitar that I am going to install the new RMC Piezo pick up which should solve all by complaints about the VG. I have always hated the wart thingy on the Roland GK-2A pick up and this will get that out of my way. The only thing the VG system really lacks for me is that it is not that box guitar thing in your lap with the sound eminating from right there. There is no feeling in the world like that. Best Paz on 3/14/02 8:45 PM, FredNow@aol.com at FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Marian (or anyone else), I understand how the VG-8's processor transposes the > pitches of the strings to conform to the programmed tuning, but what I don't > understand is what becomes of the albeit minimal but still present acoustic > sound of the guitar's strings? I suppose if you turn up your amp loud enough > you wouldn't hear it, but at lower volumes wouldn't you hear a faint residue > of the original pitches of the strings themselves, which would obviously > conflict with the transposed pitches? > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:18:24 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Reporting from Asheville(njc) Victor- I am so very happy for you and I wish you the best of luck in your new life and much happiness to you. It's time for you to start working on a new record and channel some of what your feeling. Best Paz on 3/14/02 11:58 PM, Victor Johnson at waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: > Actually, I'm in Athens and in Atlanta for the weekend but I'll be going > back up to Asheville Sunday night. I spent the week working at this new > job. I don't think I could have found a better opportunity. The people > I'm working with are very nice and it's a really small (yet quite > successful) company. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:20:35 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: (njc)Hey, Mike (and all), what's the dif between VG-8 and VG-88? Walt There is a VG-8 list believe it or not and I am a member of it. I think a lot of people prefer the VG-8, but the shreaders seem to like the 88 better for it's electric guitar and amps sounds. The acoustic sounds are really a lot better on the 8. It also has the handy dandy card slot for memory expansion. Best Paz on 3/16/02 9:55 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com at BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > Hey, Paz, > > Marian (on the list): > > "The VG-8 is Roland's virtual guitar system (it has since been replaced by > the VG-88, which Paz says isn't as good, but you can still find VG-8's for > sale if you look around)." > > I was wondering -- what changes were made between the VG-8 and the VG-88, and > do most p[eople agree with you (that the VG-8) was better? I don't play > guitar, and given the increasing numbness in my hands, don't know if I'm > going to start learning it anytime soon -- but i was curious. (As I often > am, when something's "improved" for the worse ;-) > > Ciao, > > Walt ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:29:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC It's available from CDNow for $11.49, Michael. Mark E in Seattle > Fred > Have you ever seen this on CD (Blows Against The Empire) anywhere? I love > this record and still have the LP (but my table is broke). I don't believe I > have ever seen this in a cd store. I also love the artwork on this record. > > Best > > Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:10:55 EST From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Kind words for Dolly(njc) Dear Fred, I will definitely check Nickel Creek out. Thanks for the tip! Sherelle In a message dated 03/16/2002 12:58:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, FredNow writes: > RobSher50@aol.com > > >Dear Fred, > > > >I am so with you on Alison Krauss! I could listen to her sing forever! > >She has a voice that comes out with such effortless beauty. Amazing! > > Loving Alison as you do, then, I'm pretty sure you would also love Nickel > Creek and their eponymously titled album. > > -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:18:21 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: allison and the olympic flame (njc) I don't really have anything to say about this subject, except that I miss it. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:33:37 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: allison and the olympic flame (njc) It's those really bizarre threads that keep coming back to haunt you right?? on 3/17/02 7:18 PM, Murphycopy@aol.com at Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > I don't really have anything to say about this subject, except that I miss > it. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:57:21 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: [none] Does anyone else watch the Chris Isaak show? It is on after Queer as Folk. They are talking about Joni. The girl on the show is going to have lunch with Joni. This might be a rerun but I haven't seen it before. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:07:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: sorry njc sorry for no subject line. i got so excited i missed it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:13:06 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Was: No Subject/Now: Joni mentions Mack writes: << Does anyone else watch the Chris Isaak show? It is on after Queer as Folk. They are talking about Joni. The girl on the show is going to have lunch with Joni. This might be a rerun but I haven't seen it before. >> Missed it, Mack. But THANKS! for the latest addition to the upcoming Joni in Fiction section of the JMDL, appearing soon on screens everywhere. Thanks to Les, we're all just days away from being able to click on to the Joni in Fiction site and report any new sightings of Joni in books, films, visions, poetry, plays, hallucinations, and even on TV. At the new Joni in Fiction page, we can all look forward to discovering how our lovable Joan ends up in more interesting places than Waldo -- or even Jimmy! This section of the JMDL, like Bob Muller's most excellent covers, will depend upon help from the list to grow. So if you see Joni in Fiction -- report it! It's easy. Joni mentions are everywhere these days . . . and from Stephen King's redrum to Tom Cruise's bedroom, they'll all be coming at you soon -- with Joni in Fiction on the JMDL! --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #121 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?