From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #118 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 16 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 118 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC conservation [Randy Remote ] Re: Bush (NJC) Long [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc ["Kakki" ] Re: Bush...big foreign companies...globalism (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Me too!, njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Alison Krauss njc ["Kate Bennett" ] US involvement, NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Me too!, njc ["gene mock" ] Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC ["gene mock" ] Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Bush (NJC) Long/Last [Susan Guzzi ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:02:38 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC conservation Right, gene. Arctic drilling is a boondoggle for the corporations that get the lucrative gov't contracts. Although, from what I hear, because of the jobs it will provide, many Alaskans are for it. Thanks for the good info. RR gene mock wrote: > will prevent us from seeing any Arctic oil for 10 years and then it > will only last 6 MONTHS! > > ** A mere two-mile-per-gallon improvement in auto efficiency would > save that same amount of oil in under 3 years, and keep on saving. > > ** Arctic Drilling WILL NOT reduce our dependence on foreign oil. > The U.S. has 2.8% of the world's known petroleum reserves. We > consume over 25% of all oil produced. Refuge oil would AT MOST, > increase our reserves by a mere 1% percent -- we'll need to get > the remaining 21% percent from foreign producers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long Sorry I am a day late in responding. I ran out yesterday immediately after sending - and clearly did not use spell check - and I have just gotten round to our discussion again. But I have returned to take up with your last post Kakki. Although I just saw a news blurb that former Senator Bruce Babbit is missiing somewhere in Phoenix Az on a hiking trip and I am a bit disturbed, as I have always been a supporter of his and am concerned for his safe return. Kakki wrote: However, Bush has put forth other judicial appointees since he has been in office who also have been hotley contested. One is a woman I worked with a few years ago.who went on to becme a local judge. The only reason she was being objected to is because she was a conservative Republican. That and nothing more. ... Such percedents go both ways. I agree Kakki, this is why as I said in my revious post, we have a Cld War taking place in this country. Late last night, I was watching "Crossfire" and they were discussing this very issue. Both sides had their amo and the fact is that we are going to protect the isssues that are most dear & important to us. They argued that as you said thie Bush administration was finding it tougher to get judicial aprovals. But the other side said, 40 of Bush's appointees have been approved thus far, or about 5 per month. And that at least they are getting voted on, where something like 35% of Clinton's never even reached a vote. So while more of Bush's have been rejected in number, they wouldn't even bring 35% of Clinton's to a vote. So it was like a rejection anyway. Plus because so many posts during the Clinton years were not brought to vote there are many more posts to fill during this administration. So it's all how you see the numbers or want to see them, on either side. The fear with "Conservatves" is NOT that they will NOT uphold the law. But their interpretation of it. No one doubts that they are brilliant, law abiding, and may other superlatives when it comes to law and the Constitution. But like the bible so open to interpretation. Being a feminist and a lesbian, I am sure you can understand my fears for myself, but these are not the only issues that I am concerned with. I also am a staunch and strict believer in the separation of church and state. It is my feeling that the "right," especially the far right, invoke their religious beliefs into the issue(s) at hand. I also follow my heart as a humanist and a pacifist, as much as possible. It is sometimes a struggle, but I believe it is morally the correct thing. Kakki wrote: I have read a lot of opinion after 9/11 which seeed to think that the moderates would emerge as the majority vote. Can't agree more, that the moderates are the majority. But they seem apathetic and wishy washy or as I said before NO Backbone! They are the ones who need to sort out the semantics and rhetoric. They have always been the the ones to keep the playing field level. Right now it tips one way and then the othe , but this boat doesn't sail very smoothly or does rarely. This is due to a fears of not being re-elected I think. Kakki wrote: I am very much for reducing our dependence and for going towards alternative energy sources. We should have been more diligent in doing so long ago. It is expensive to convert over to alternatives. Again we agree on the said problem. However, remember before everyone had a computer? Whether it was business or personal, nobody thoguht they would be able to afford it. We did and look how relatively economic it is to own one yourself or to have huge networks set up through out the world. Everyone said, they'd never do it cause it would be too expensive. We can not keep counting on something that is going to run out. Also, if they had earnestly dedicated themselves to alternatives then and to the research it would have been cheaper and the technology or the new resource may be further advanced and researched. We have to do this and NOW. We do not have a choice, in my opinion. And this too is also as you expressed. I too am with you on feeling fortunate up to now that we have not experienced a nuclear situation in our lifetime and I am with you in praying that this continues. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Bush's response to this and how he handled it. I just think he tries to be too much of a cowboy. Finally it has been a pleasure to discuss this here without taking swipes at eachother. Hey maybe we should be running this operation .... NO THANKS! But thanks for making me think and be better informed. Counting on enjoying a big ole Martini at Jonifest this year! Peace, Susan Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:05:54 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc I wrote: > Nonetheless, I've heard many in the federal government and the Bush administration > advocating moving forward towards alternatives. Randy wrote: > I guess I missed that announcement. I've heard him say it more than once. Here's also a link for you to read (and it also includes some requisite Bush bashing, too! ;-) http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=uspolitics_news.ht&s=APHq6HRTVQnVzaCB T&ao=18023986 Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:12:09 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc Oops looks like I screwed up the link - here is the article from Bloomberg.com: Bush Seeks $3 Bln Tax Credits for Cars in Energy Bill (Update2) By Richard Keil and Alex Canizares Washington, Feb. 25 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush urged Congress to pass a plan to provide $3 billion in tax credits for people who buy hybrid or fuel cell vehicles over the next five years. Bush wants the Democratic-controlled Senate, which may take up energy legislation this week, to use tax breaks to encourage oil exploration and energy conservation. He said the $3 billion would spur commercial use of hybrid cars, which run on a mixture of gas and electric power, and fuel cell vehicles whose only emission is water vapor. Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. Ltd. have hybrids on the road now; U.S. automakers are planning such vehicles in the next couple of years. ``We need to have a focused effort to bring fuel cells to market,'' Bush said after inspecting vehicles on the White House driveway. ``The Congress needs to get a bill to my desk.'' Bush is promoting hydrogen technology research after dropping a program promoted by former Vice President Al Gore, Bush's 2000 Democratic presidential rival, to help automakers develop an 80- mile-per-gallon sedan. Bush said tax credits and research are needed to reduce 50 percent of U.S. oil coming from ``countries that don't particularly like us.'' Drilling Dispute Bush's energy plan would allow companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp. and ChevronTexaco Corp. to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and other Democrats vowed to block drilling in the refuge, saying it would harm the environment without meeting U.S. energy needs. The bill passed by the Republican-led House would allow exploration in the Arctic refuge and give $33.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives to oil and coal companies. The Senate measure, approved Feb. 13 by the Finance Committee, wouldn't allow drilling in the refuge. Instead, it would increase the use of ethanol in gasoline and seek to triple by 2020 the amount of energy produced using solar, wind or geothermal resources. The Democrats' measure includes $13.5 billion in tax breaks, including incentives to promote alternative energy, conservation, technology to reduce emissions from coal, and exploration of oil and gas. Several provisions would benefit companies such as Alcoa Inc., Ford Motor Co., and Chevron Corp. Fuel-Efficient Cars The legislation aims to split tax benefits evenly, with half for energy conservation and renewable fuels development and half for incentives for oil and gas development. It contains less generous expensing provisions for oil producers than the House bill and no tax breaks to aid construction of oil refineries. The Senate Democrats' bill includes $1 billion in tax incentives over 10 years for consumers who buy fuel-efficient cars, said Bill Wicker, a spokesman for the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. Toyota's Prius and Honda's Insight hybrid vehicles will be more widely available next year, according to the Energy Department. DaimlerChrysler AG plans to sell a hybrid vehicle by the end of next year, said company spokesman Sjoerd Dijkstra. General Motors Corp. may have a hybrid on the market in 2004. Democratic Party Chairman Terry McAuliffe accused Bush of ``hypocrisy'' in promoting hybrid cars. ``In 2000, he mocked Al Gore's support for hybrid cars,'' McAuliffe said, citing Bush campaign appearances in the last two weeks of the campaign. ``I am glad President Bush has discovered energy policies that come from sources other than his secret energy task force,'' McAuliffe said in a statement. Fuel Cell Vehicles Bush said fuel cell vehicles face economic obstacles. The Energy Department in January announced a $150 million program to research fuel cell technologies that run on hydrogen. A related issue that may derail passage of energy legislation this year is increased fuel efficiency standards, which is being pushed by Democrats such Senator Jeff Bingaman, chairman of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. The Democrats' plan would require passenger vehicles made after 2006 and before 2010 to get 36 miles per gallon, and light trucks to get 27.5 miles per gallon. That's compared to the current standard of 27.5 miles per gallon for cars and 20.7 miles per gallon for light trucks. The House plan contains less strict cuts in fuel consumption from only light trucks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush...big foreign companies...globalism (NJC) Brenda wrote: > I think the trouble with this argument is that the average citizen in one of these > countries has about as much to do with their big multi-nationals as the average U.S. > citizen has to do with General Motors or AT&T. They buy their products and if they're > fortunate, they own some small bit of stock or a mutual fund that owns some stock. It > wouldn't at all surprise me if, in some cases, actual ownership by U.S. citizens (via > pension funds, 401k investments, etc.) was as significant as ownership by citizens of > the company's home country. On the other hand many average citizens in those countries benefit from either being employed at those large companies, whose continued economic health is greatly bolstered by having a large and stable American market to sell their products to, or from the taxes paid by those companies, which serves to fund their countries social programs. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:29:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC Brenda wrote: > I can't help thinking that the majority of Americans don't believe this. If they did, > wouldn't we have a higher voter turnout? Where is the patriotism on election day? Working late and stuck in traffic in L.A.and too late to get to the polling booth. But seriously, I understand your point and try to do my part to change things. I remember over 20 years ago having a discussion with some people and all of them were saying "They" this and "They" that with regard to any government direction. Obviously something happened along the way to sort of brainwash people into thinking that "They," whoever "They" are, run the government. Ever since then when I hear that kind of talk I remind people that it is up to "We" and not "They" to steer the direction of our society. I blame it on a lack of proper education. Kakki (who travels through all the traffic miles away to vote in my old hometown because of ongoing conservation issues there) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:11 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc Thanks for finding this, Kakki. I'm pleasantly surprised to hear this from Mr. Bush, although his plans to penetrate the Arctic Wildlife Refuge are misguided. At least he is talking about Hydrogen technology, and hopefully getting something rolling. RR Kakki wrote: > Bush said the $3 billion would spur commercial use of > hybrid cars, which run on a mixture of gas and electric power, and fuel cell > vehicles whose only emission is water vapor. > ``We need to have a focused effort to bring fuel cells to market,'' Bush > said after inspecting vehicles on the White House driveway. ``The Congress > needs to get a bill to my desk.'' > > Drilling Dispute > > Bush's energy plan would allow companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp. and > ChevronTexaco Corp. to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. > Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and other Democrats vowed to block > drilling in the refuge, saying it would harm the environment without meeting > U.S. energy needs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:27:55 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Me too!, njc Speaking up for my home state California...it is incredibly beautiful here, in many places, in so many varieties of beauty...btw, don't be sure you wouldn't like the deserts until you see...in the right season (spring especially) they are incredibly beautiful...there is something so mysical about the desert...I couldn't live there but I appreciate the subtle beauty there when I visit. >>Colarado and kentucky and perhaps Tenesee really appeal. the othjers don'e. Not into desert.<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:58:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Alison Krauss njc Alison is the only voice I could listen to for weeks after 9/11. She has the voice of an angel... >>I am so with you on Alison Krauss! I could listen to her sing forever!<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:58:28 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: US involvement, NJC Yikes, I hate to add fuel to any fire here but I wonder how many Americans believe that? I don't...call me cynical but sometimes it seems like the government is "by the lobbyists & for the corporations." I love my country, always vote but to quote the bobster "it ain't me babe..." >>Americans believe and have always believed that they ARE the government "by the people and for the people." Kakki<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:53:37 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Me too!, njc california is the prettiest state in the union. here in california we have the ocean and the ceaseless pounding of the its waves. along its shores are protected by its redwood soldiers. to be dwarfed by these huge tall trees leaves one speechless. inland we have the two great valleys, the best growing region america, whose produce feeds most of this nation with the finest fruits and vegetables. like candy, sweet like candy. going east you have the sierra's with its unique granite and pure flowing water. snow, hunting fishing, hiking, climbing, it's all there to enjoy. the desert is very special---------late winter maybe early spring, catch it right and you'll wake up one morning with miles and miles full of color from blossoming flowers after a fresh rain. and the quietness is religion. all you hear is the wind and yourself, peaceful. miles of walking on slickrock letting your imagination take you where it may. california has so much variety, natural, cultural, and historical interests. and last and not lest------the frecking people. some you'll like, some you won't, and others you won't care about. but that's calfornia. joni know what she was talking about when she was homesick and wrote the song "california." sorry if i sound like a travel guide, but take out politics and california is for me and maybe a jonifest. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:27 PM Subject: Me too!, njc > Speaking up for my home state California...it is incredibly beautiful here, > in many places, in so many varieties of beauty...btw, don't be sure you > wouldn't like the deserts until you see...in the right season (spring > especially) they are incredibly beautiful...there is something so mysical > about the desert...I couldn't live there but I appreciate the subtle beauty > there when I visit. > > >>Colarado and kentucky and perhaps Tenesee really appeal. the othjers > don'e. Not > into desert.<< > > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:00:53 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC The masses have little time to think. And how incredible is the willingness of modern man to believe. -- Benito Mussolini - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC > On 15 Mar 2002 at 18:05, anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > > > > And yet, it's still government by and for the > > people, because people have the choice to participate > > or not. > > But there is certainly something wrong if the apathy on election day is ultimately > because people don't believe that their vote matters. > > Brenda > > n.p.: Ziroq - "Tierra del Sur" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:16:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Cars and alternate tech. njc Great information Randy, thank you! Yes, I have heard some talk of this hydrogen technology & it sounds so promising...isn't the byproduct water somehow? It makes sense if two of the H's mix with one O...LOL... Our dream is to get off the grid...we get lots of wind & sun here & want to be able to run our house on these energy sources...then getting one of those hyrdrogen cars would be fabulous! >>>Hydrogen technology has made great advances, and needs to be develped. It burns completely pollution-free. And you don't really hear about it.<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:09:04 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Cars and alternate tech. njc > > Americans plain and simple love their fast cars and big SUVs. > >Because they are agressively marketed to them So is Mcdonald's, but I still hate the big mac. In all seriousness,Americans associate so much with cars. (and to think about it, not only Americans:Joni has quite a few car mentions in her songs) Big and fast....cars are so tied to who we are. I think they represent freedom,ideas and just so much. And to try and regulate what kind of cars engineers can create and manufacturers can produce.. is a big mistake. And I don't think will happen in our lifetime anyway. > > > These > > electric cars that only go 50mph are not feasible and are ugly to boot. >And > > believe me, if I had children I would have a SUV because they are safe. > >Not that safe. Although you have all that steel and ballast, because >SUV's are so high off the ground, they are pretty easy to roll if you >turn sharply at high speed-for instance, avoiding road debris. >You would be better off with something like a Volvo, which has >a strong steel framework built around the passenger compartment. I should have said safer. I use to have a jeep and was cautious about it being prone to roll overs. It did have roll bars though. Volvos are #1 for safety. But just not my cup of tea. Too expensive for my bank account anyway. I found your post very interesting on electric and hybrid cars:Much food for thought and some interesting little tidbits. Thanks!! Bree >RR > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:37:47 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Me too!, njc Geez,I promise this is my last post for a couple of days. For I'm sure to be catatonic for awhile. Ky has my heart, but gawd I have had a love affair with CA for many years now. You won't get any argument from me. That drive,that gorgeous drive from Big Sur to Carmel is the most breathtaking ride I have ever taken. It is spectacular!!! It is a true paradise for anybody who likes to paint,take pictures or just enjoys beauty. The state just has too many whackos for me! Just Kidding. Thanks Gene for the recall. Goodnight, Bree >california is the prettiest state in the union. here in california we have >the ocean and the ceaseless pounding of the its waves. along its shores >are >protected by its redwood soldiers. to be dwarfed by these huge tall trees >leaves one speechless. > > > > > ******************************************** > > Kate Bennett > > www.katebennett.com > > sponsored by Polysonics > > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > > ******************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:37 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: US involvement...gov't. by the people NJC "There is someone wiser than any of us, and that is everybody." -- Napoleon > The masses have little time to think. And how >incredible is the willingness of modern man to >believe. -- Benito Mussolini ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 02:39:53 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: My Old KY Home njc Kate Bennett wrote: > > This is so beautiful Bree. I have wanted to visit KY for decades...my > grandmother used to tell me about her relatives that lived there...later I > discovered that my Irish ancestors settled in KY & named their homestead > after their Irish land. Maghera Glass. Anyone know exactly what that > means...I think that is how you spell it. Could it be Magheragh Glas? (said MY-er-ugh gloos) Magh is field and glas is green so my guess is "Green Fields", a fitting name for both Ireland and Kentucky. And since it's almost March 17: Beannachtam na Fiile Padraig oraibh! Happy St. Patrick's Day to you all! Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:47:38 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long/Last Hi again, Bree wrote: Well unfortunately this is the way of the world now. There is no turning back. Not to be a pessimist but things will only get more stringent. Have you heard about Israels security? Well Bree, I just can't think that I have to bend over and take it as each "little" freedom gets whittled away. It may be the way of the world but last I checked I lived in America and we do have certain rights & freedoms. But no problem, remember by limiting our rights/fredoms, we have let them win. Seems to be another area where this administration talks out of both sides of their mouths. "We will not let them win" then it's "we must be willing to give up some "comforts" to win this thing. And as I said the airports were just a beginning and not anywhere near the whole issue. Reading e-mails and other coorespondence is part of it. Plus some of the rights we have been losing over the past 10-15 years. Search and seizure laws and unwarranted searchess come to mind. See a trend yet? These things send me over the edge. They start out so subtle and slow and miniscule and before you know it - POOF - they're gone! And finally, I have heard about Israel's airport security. I don't live there, I live in America, and I'm going to hold them to their promise of freedom and rights. I don't mind most of what goes on for securities sake, but I think it 's beginning to spin out of control the other way. Bree wrote: Americans plain & simple love their fast cars & big SUVs. These electric cars that go 50mph are not feasible and are ugly to boot. And believe me If I had children I would have an SUV because they are safe. Well we love our lovin' but not like I love my freedoms (worked Joni into that one). But this is where Americans get their bad rap. This image is gluttonous. The technology can be developed to go faster than 50mph and I believe they are there or nearly. Secondly, how about those kids you are so concerned about racing around at 70 80 90mph. In the city 50 is about as fast as you can go with 30 - 45 for most city driving. Highway driving 55 - 65, can't believe the technology won't get there. Also, if we had made this commitment 10 - 20 years ago, and seriously, we'd be there by now. I have a lot of faith in good old American Ingenuity! Oh and they are ugly!? Is that really part of your argument? It's partly what we're used to - and partly because they are still in their infancy. Also, I am not sure as to how safe SUVs are if you are in a car and get hit by one or if we were all driving them wouldn't it all kind of be a wash? I have also seen some news reports questioning their safety and tipping over. I find most of these reasons pretty superficial. Sorry, I disagree with you to the utmost Bree, but I will defend to the death your RIGHTS to say it (or something like that). Kate wrote: The oil companies have a huge stake in the staus quo. Abso-fucking-lutely! This is the entire basis for why we have not moved towards more alernative energy sources, it may leave them out in the cold. Well remember when one door closes another opens. At least that's what everyone's been telling me about my employment situation. But seriously, this will create a whole brand new industry and there will be jobs - BUT it may not include the same folks in the upper echelon that the oil and auto industry does now. What goes around ... These are the same people who's lobbyists have the most money to be sure they don't get screwed and the same old political types who assist them. This whole discussion started out, I believe with posts from Fred & Anne which I supported and embellished on. It seemed for awhile it was just Kakki and I playing "point/counter point. But I am proud that we "played nice" together. I have not responded to the many posts that have come either here or off-list to me, not because I was ignoring anyone. It was just easier to respond mostly to Kakki as she and I had several different and/or opposing points to make to eachother. But I wanted to add my "me toos" and "I agrees" to several of those who also eloquently posted similar points of view such as Kate, Vince, Randy, Gene, Colin, Brenda and Blair. Thank you all for your comments, knowledge and insights. I just didn't want to bog down the bandwidth by giving a RAH RAH to each point of view or being overly repititious. Plus I am still stuck on this damn webtv and it's just not very user friendly! Peace Susan Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #118 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?