From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #115 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, March 15 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 115 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Cover of "Passion Play" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni & Leonard [Steve Dulson ] Re: Kind Words for Dolly (some JC) ["Jerome ." ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [colin ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [Randy Remote ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [Randy Remote ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [colin ] Bush njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Bush (NJC) Long ["Kakki" ] Re: Grace Slick NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters [Rick and Susan ] Re: Protesters (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Screen Saver Update [Ken ] Re: Cover of "Passion Play" [chiaroscuro@snet.net] Me too!, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] nuclear weapons NJC ["gene mock" ] Digest #112 was indispensable !! 100% JC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Reporting from Asheville(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Michael From Mountains ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: VG8 - njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Bush (NJC) long ["Kakki" ] Re: Copy Cat (NJC) behind the scenes: Now, Mrs. Doubtfire ["Bree Mcdonoug] Re: Bush (NJC) long ["Kakki" ] Re: nuclear weapons NJC [Vince Lavieri ] RE: VG8 - njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:46:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cover of "Passion Play" << She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very straight but quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. >> Indeed...very nice. She reminds me of Toni Childs. Thanks Brenda for our FIRST cover of Passion Play. This song has always blown me away with it's beauty and interesting chord changes, not to mention the lyrical beauty. Sounds like she's playing with one of those VG8's, and some of the playing puts me in the mind of Larry Carlton's sound on Hejira. Bob NP: Gail Ann Dorsey, "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:05:32 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni & Leonard Someone (sorry!) wrote: >she intended it as a homage or love-note to Cohen, who she >surely bumped into on the coffeehouse circuit. They did a lot more than just bump into each other, by all accounts. ;) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:24:06 -0800 From: "Jerome ." Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly (some JC) With all this Dolly talk going around, I felt compelled to go to the JMDL site and look up a reference to Joni that Dolly made not too long ago. I didn't find it, but I did find this cute quote from Joni about Dolly... "When I met Dolly Parton, I played her the "Hissing of Summer Lawns," album, and she said to me quite shyly after the record was played back, "My God, if I thought that deep, I'd scare myself to death." (Laughs). So some of the process is indeed a little bit scary, you know. " The quote I can't seem to find was Dolly saying how she really admired Joni and her ability to take risks. It was just short quote. Anyone else remember this or was I just dreaming? - -J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:31:36 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long Kakki wrote: > I have no idea what those other news outlets reported but it sounds like > market share and keeping up with the fearmongers (fear sells) might be more > important to them than responsible journalism. And the Guardian is the > newspaper I called anti-American because on any given day of the week or > year I can read something there that is nasty, sneering and often untrue > about U.S. policy. Such consistency tells me they are also selling to a > particular niche market. > I understand your objection to anti American sentiment. I don;t undertsand your obnjection to the reporting of Bush's statement that he is prepared to use nukes. He said ti. It is not a lie. To reprot it is not fearmongering. it is something we all need to know. On BBC's question time tonight, this subject came up. I leanred some stuff I didn't know. Like how the USA(and I assume the UK) were friends with Saddam and helped him invade Iran and supplied him with the technology and weapons. The fell out over his invading of Kuwait. It was also asked that if it is alright to attack Iraqfor failing to abide by UN resolutions, why is nothing done about Israels failure to do the same? It was said that Iraq has an undemocratic dictator and that weapons of mass destruction is his hands are dangerous. Someone else pointed out that Pakistan has the nuclear capability and also has an undemocratic dictator leading them yet America is friends. America and the UK and France and others have weapons of Mass Destruction as wella s India and Israel and anyone else I have forgotten. Out of these, America has used them. In Japan, in Vietnam and in Afghanistan. Cluster bombs were used in Afghanistan despite the fact hat they are just air dropped landmines. Landmines have been banned. The anti American sentiment is widespread and it is real and it is there for good reasons. Stating this fact is not an attack on you personally or anyone else, except those people that have the power in your country. The UK too has equally stained hands. I find it difficult to undertsand people getting offended when negative comments are made about governents. It is done here all the time about the UK govt and it doesn't bother me at all. They are not attacking me.I don't see the conenction with patriotism. i think it is quite possible to love your country and not feel peronally attacked when the govt is criticised. It is a way neagating or shutting up dissenting voices i suppose but not that effective. Although one could name a number of countries where it is. I think for me the whole idea of my country and my nationality being part of my definition of myself,part of my meaning structure, is quite foreign to me. I just don't define myself that way and never have. I think because I lived in so many differtn countries. Ironically, growing up an Army child left me with no feeling for anywhere, no nationalistic or patriotic feelings. i do not regret that at all. I am pleased. It allows me to define myself in other ways, ways that are to do with me and my insides and not to do with the outside stuff. I also view the world and it's people as MY world and the people in it as being the same as me. They may look different, they may act different, they may eat different, they may think different, and interpret different but we all FEEL the same. We all laugh, we all cry, we all feel fear, anger, jealousy,envy, greed, passion, we all die. The barriers we have built, the 'borderlines' are all just fantasy, a desperate attempt to allay fear, not real but constructions we have made that separate us all and cause us all so much pain. Till we recognize that we are all the same, human, but diverse in the way we express that and interpret our world. The trouble is difference makes us frightened so those that are different we label as bad and therefore dangerous and of course inferior. Thus we have enemies when we could have friends. The solution really does lie with you and me. If we want to change the world, we have to start with ourselves. By that i mean I must change if I want the world to change and the same goes for everyone else. The world is how we each have created it. It is not something we can only sit back and say'it isn't to do with me-I have no power'. That is not true. We each have tremendous power. We have used and are using that power to destroy our world and our friends. We could use that power to build our world and our friends, to bring about peace. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:28:26 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long Kakki wrote: > Thank you for the links, Randy. Everything I've read about the Patriot Act > does not concern me but I'll take another look at it. I'm still of the > belief that it is for going after dangerous terrorists in the U.S. who have > and have been planning to harm us for years and not for some whim of some > "aristocracy" to go after all Americans. Not all Americans. Just the ones they feel politically threatened by or don't like. The Patriot Act is a very long, complicated document which many of our legislators did not read before voting on it. History shows that society tends to take repressive measures when motivated by fear. The internment of Japanese and German Americans during WWII, the McCarthy blacklists...and these measures are more to make us feel safe than to actually make us safe. > > > > More recently, LA cops shot rubber bullets and attacked with clubs > protesters at the > > Democratic convention last year, and arbitrarily arrested and detained > > 600 people, some just passersby. > > Where did you read this? I was RIGHT THERE almost the entire time and have > the photographs documenting most of it. The police for almost an HOUR > requested repeatedly that the crowd disperse before they went in. Most > people left the area as requested. I stayed until almost the last minute. > I did not see anywhere near 600 people still hanging around. The reports I > heard were that only around 10-25 people were shot with rubber bullets. The > last I saw them they were climbing over the protective fences to get onto > Staples Center property. By the way, these people were NOT Democratic party > supporters nor were they Republican protesters. They were rag-tag groups of > organizations I'd never heard of before, but they were all anti-Democrat and > protesting the Democrats convention. Maybe you would know better which > groups they were. They seemed to be some of those enviro-radical groups and > the "free Mumia" crowd. Would you rather they'd stormed the convention at > Staples Center while the Gores and Clintons were in the house? Oops- I have to apologize for this little piece of misinformation. I got two events confused-the Demo convention in LA and the inaugural protests and police brutality in D.C. Both have been cited as examples of inappropriate violence by the police. From The Boston Phoenix: on the LA events: http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archives/2000/documents/00520485.htm An excerpt: Riot-gear-clad members of the Los Angeles Police Department shot rubber bullets into a crowd of protesters during the first night of the convention. They made liberal use of their batons to intimidate protesters throughout the week. And they randomly dispersed groups of activists under threat of arrest -- on the pretext that these groups constituted an unlawful assembly, though they were demonstrating peacefully. There is simply no way to justify the LAPD response -- which was to corner not just the troublemakers but all the protesters in the area, rush them with horses, strike them with batons, and fire rubber bullets straight in their direction. The article goes on to describe the protesters as: a diverse group that included anarchists, environmentalists, Green Party members, and animal-rights, gay-rights, and prison-reform activists, were in LA to publicize their myriad causes. Kakki, I was not there, but you were. I'm sure you know more about what went on then I do. But your description of the protesters as rag-tag...etc non-Democrats seems to imply that some people have the right to protest and some do not. Every American has the right to peaceful assembly! Whether you have heard of them or not! I am against using violence as a form of expression by protesters or police, and would not be comforted if they stormed Staples Center regardless of who was in the house. Police misconduct in DC during the inaugural protests is described in this article from In These Times. http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/24/13/allen2413a.html Excerpt: [Police] conducted a mass arrest of more than 600 nonviolent marchers and bystanders, mistreated people in custody, confiscated First Amendment-protected literature, violated a contract with protesters' lawyers, and used the fire department - thereby avoiding the need for a warrant - to search and then shut down the organizing headquarters. In violation of department policy, police frequently failed to wear identifying badges, refused to give shield numbers, arrested peaceful protesters without a warning or an order to disperse, and they may have interfered with the phone lines of lawyers handling arrests. [Kakki said]: > I frankly do not understand all the concern over the loss of reproductive > rights. They are protected by the highest law of the land and I cannot > conceive how any group can overturn that law. On the other hand, I believe > that people have a right to speak of their beliefs based on their religion. > Just because they speak up against it does not mean they can overturn the > law. It is certainly not only the Christian right who are pro-life. There > are a large number of Christian left who believe the same. Their religion > comes before their political party. There are also Jews and other religions > who believe abortion is taking a life. They don't like their tax dollars > going to fund abortions, particularly in other countries. I think they have > a right to their opinion. I personally think it is an individual decision > and that government should be out of it completely. Me, too. And certainly the Christian Right is not the only group that opposes abortion. But they are the group with financial ties to Bush. And as we all know, if you fund a politician, you expect, and often receive favored treatment. And just because something is law doesn't mean it can't be overturned by the Supreme Court. I really don't know whether abortion is taking a life or not. I much prefer contraception and family planning, programs that Bush's administration has wasted no time in gutting. Kakki wrote: > Randy, > > Are you referring to the airport security plan devised and instituted by FAA > Aviation Administrator Linda Daschle (wife of Tom) and Al Gore a few years > ago? > > Kakki > > > Re: the statement on my last post: > > Sidebar: I recently heard that the government >jettisoned a proposal (pre > Sept 11) to install >inpenetrable doors on commercial jets >because it > didn't want a "regulated airline >industry". > > I meant to say "inpenetrable cockpit doors", >which would have prevented > the Sept 11 >tragedy. I overheard this as part of a speech on the radio a couple of days ago. The guy seemed to know what he was talking about, but I did not catch his name, and he did not give details on this comment. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:36:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long A wonderfully elequent statement, Colin, right on! I would add that besides selling weapons to Saddam and helping him attain power, the US gov't has supported Noriega, the Taliban, dictators in Chile, Haiti...etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:48:27 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long > is not the only group that > opposes abortion. I strongly feel that the only person who should have say whatsoever about abortion is the pregant woman who wants one. No one else has the right to force her to continue with a pregnancy she does not want, not even the man who impregnated her. I have my own feelings about abortion itself but I do not feel i have the right to voice them because my feelings, in this situaiton are mine to deal with, not to force upon someone else. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:07:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Bush njc >>>Accordng to Dubya, anyone who uses drugs is helping fund terrorists to fund their wars & agendas.<<< These commercials are all over tv... >>>we have not taken any major steps in alleviating our reliance. The oil &auto industies and their ties to most of the past administrations has played a huge part in this.<<< they are still winning: WASHINGTON, March 13  The Senate rejected a measure today to stiffen fuel-efficiency requirements for cars and trucks, once again resolving the perennial battle between environmentalists and the automobile industry in favor of the industry. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/14/politics/14ENER.html >>>the Russians did develop the "suitcase nukes" as I recall. But I too fail to see how this changes anything. To be the leader of the free world, and to be throwing around disturbing threats like this is reckless.<<< a few months ago the US population was concerned that the terrorists might have these suitcase nukes & use them here...& now...if it is true that the US is considering using them, this is absolute insanity... >>>Speaking of Bush, I about did a Danny Thomas coffee take this AM when I read in the paper that Dubya is not going to recognize Mr. Mugabe, the President of Zimbabwe, because the ELECTION WAS FLAWED!!!!<<< Oh my gawd Bob, thank you for this! LMAOROTF..this is great news because I have been looking for a justifiable reason not to recognize Dubya as president ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:54:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long Susan, I really appreciate your reply and think your viewpoints and questions are perfectly open-minded and reasonable. I read up a bit more on the Patriot Act and it seems that most of the provisions were already law in the past, but this act tightens them up a bit more and seems almost like gilding the lily byour government representatives in a time of urgency and perhaps fear on their parts immediately after 9/11. The other side of the coin is that we obviously had gotten way too egregiously lax over the years in several sectors of our national security and immigration agencies so this is kind of like going from one extreme to the other. That's not to say I support everything blindly - I feel caught up in the middle of it all as do probably a lot of people and again, perfect clarity is probably not optimal. Historically, such as in WWII, many draconian security measures and total abridgment of many citizens' civil liberties were instituted. I don't know if this will make anyone feel better, but everything I've read on the right hand side of the political fence is vehemently opposed to the Patriot Act and thinks it is totally fascist. With such a cross-section of opposition, there should be enough voices to keep it in check, or have it modified or amended. > And finaly Bush's very first judicial apointee >has sparked huge concerns as far as "civil > liberties" are concerned - and reproductive >rights. Aren't judges supposed to be >unbiased? They are supposed to be unbiased in their rulings and following the law, absolutely. I have not had a chance to look at Pickering's record so am not familiar with the controversy. However, Bush has put forth other judicial appointees at the federal level since he has been in office who have also been hotly contested. One is a woman I worked with a few years ago who went on to become a local judge. The only reason she was being objected to is because she was a conservative Republican, that and nothing more. Her judicial record of rulings over the years showed absolutely no bias politically. She always upheld the law based on the law and not her personal political beliefs. So why was she arbitrarily objected to? If she had no record of bias, it seems very chilling that she would be denied a judicial appointment purely on political party affiliation. Such precedents cut both ways. > Where is, not compromise but common >sense and sympathy and understadning of > the other side? We have a Cold War going >on right here in our own country right now! Right on, right on!! I read a lot of opinion after 9/11 which seemed to think that the moderates would emerge as the majority voice. I have hope that they will. > I could not agree more Kakki. But >admittedly, I have slung those arrows myself, >in the heat of debate. Especially towards >Buchannan followers. . Not to worry - I'm with you on Buchanan - he has always repulsed me! Re: - drugs and terrorism - there have been a lot of reports that Bin Laden/Al Queda/Taliban terrorist groups have funded a lot of their activities through the opium poppy trade in Afghanistan. This is undisputed. However, it is way over the top to say if someone smokes pot or buys diamonds they should feel like they are funding terrorism. I have no perfect answers for the dependence on oil. My simplistic reaction for a long time is to get completely the hell out of the middle east for starters. I am very much for reducing our dependence and for going towards alternative energy sources. We should have been more diligent in doing so long ago. It IS very expensive to convert over to alternatives. Part of the reason for the huge finanical debt California is in right now is because of the mandate for alternative energy sources. You can't just snap your fingers and wish it and all will be O.K. There is a huge price to pay. However, I'm sure with all the talent in the U.S. some people could come up with some good ideas. Toyota now has the part gas/part electric car on the market at a reasonable price. I'm glad to see that at least start to happen. > Well I getting this vibe that you do not >appreciate this guy from the L.A. Times. But >the news seems to be that there is some >accuracy to this story. Bush and Powell have >both been in the news responding to it. I'm sure there is a lot of accuracy to it. But I don't like the idea of it being leaked and being interpreted by some commentator. What I don't understand is people's surprise to it. The U.S. has had the policy of nuclear deterence "if you nuke us, we will retalitate" for as long as I've been alive. I don't think it's fair to portray it as something that suddenly originated with Bush. > You are correct from everything I have >heard/read, the Russians did develop the >"suitcase nukes" as I recall. Not only those suitcase nukes, but also these so-called "small tactical nukes" which are another animal. As for Bush throwing around threats, he did not do that - he and Congress reviewed that Pentagon report to *discuss* all their weaponry options but there have been no reports that everyone privy to it had agreed or voted on nuking a number of countries ad hoc. Once the discussion was leaked, what was he supposed to say, other than "if you nuke us, we will leave our options open" which has been the policy of all the administrations I can remember. That said, most of us here have thankfully lived our lives without the deployment of a nuclear weapon. Let's pray that continues. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:29:31 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC Hey thanks I'll take a look into those recordings. I doubt I'll become a Slick afficianado or devotee like Mark or others who have posted, but I'll give the music a chance. I guess I said, "What was her deal?" because the only interviews I have seen her in or have her speaking somehow deal with drugs and the 60's and how great it was, etc etc. and I just assumed she was another wash up. But that was assumation and it never leads to an open opinion. So thanks for all the info I could gather on her. :) BLair NP: Cocksucker Ball, Frank Zappa > >There was a question of what of Grace to listen to...Blows against the >Empire >is great, or her first solo disc Manhole is available on import. > >Fauchja _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:30:26 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters on 3/13/02 6:30 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com at SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Hey thanks Simon for all that info regarding the films. Who is on the case as > far as taping it for sharing? Ranger Rick? I will be taping it, of course, but my VCR is not high-end. It's actually very low-end. Still, if a better copy is not available I'll be glad to offer mine up for a video tree. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:21:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Protesters (NJC) Randy, I just read your post and would respond to most of it as in my last post to Susan. I'll add to my response as far as the Demo convention. > Riot-gear-clad members of the Los Angeles Police Department shot > rubber bullets into a crowd of protesters during the first night of the > convention. They were riot-clad all over the entire downtown area because they were truing to protect the attendees of the convention. >They made liberal use of their batons to intimidate protesters > throughout the week. This is not true. They looked initmidating, absolutely, but they were not going around batting people at all "throughout the week." > There is simply no way to justify the LAPD response -- which was to > corner not just the troublemakers but all the protesters in the area, > rush them with horses, strike them with batons, and fire rubber bullets > straight in their direction. This is bullshit - I was there in the thick of it. If you see riot-clad police tell you over loud-speakers and bullhorns for an hour to disperse so that the attendees of the convention could safely depart what would you do? Even if those protesters did not understand English or were deaf, they certainly could discern that they should follow the directions of the police. > But your description of the protesters > as rag-tag...etc non-Democrats seems to imply that some people > have the right to protest and some do not. Every American has > the right to peaceful assembly! Absolutely did not mean to imply that - I kind of got a kick out of them in a weird way. My description of "rag-tag" only meant that they were loosely assembled and small in number. The few (and truly there were only a very few when I left) that refused to leave and were climbing over the fences, had to, in my mind, WANT to get arrested, probably to make a statement. That is their right, of course. > And just because something is law doesn't mean it can't be overturned by the Supreme Court. > I really don't know whether abortion is taking a life or not. Here's my take - I recall the long fight for reproductive rights and it was settled 30 years ago. I truly cannot conceive any Supreme Court overturning it, but if they do, we can all protest. But it hasn't happened and I just don't think it will. I will say, again that I think Bush and government should just stay out of it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:34:21 -0500 From: Ken Subject: Screen Saver Update On the Shiny Toys page I've updated the Joni Mitchell Art Screen Saver. The only difference to the program is that it now has 78 pictures in place of the original 45. I've run it on a Windows XP system and it runs fine. Thanks to Jim from Jonimitchell.com for the use of the pictures and to Catgirl for the push to update the program. Also thanks to Les for helping me with an FTP problem. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:36:38 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@snet.net Subject: Re: Cover of "Passion Play" I find women who play the bass very interesting. The one who often stands out is Tina Weymouth from Talking Heads and Tom Tom Club. There was a woman who played bass for the B52's who was pretty cool too. I'm assuming Gail Anne Dorsey has a CD or two? Heather At 12:14 PM 3/14/02 -0800, Brenda wrote: >Gail Anne Dorsey (bass player for Bowie and Tears for Fears among others) >recently >performed live on KCRW. She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very >straight but >quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. > >I recorded it and can supply a .wav or .mp3 for anyone who wants it. > >Brenda > >n.p.: Gail Anne Dorsey - "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:39:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Me too!, njc Every once in awhile I end up with a collection of short responses. I hope I'm forgiven for this recurring transgression. Kakki, - ----- You've been holding out on us, you stinker! Kakki, songwriter! It's not fair that so much intellect coincides in the brain of a songwriter too. It's almost redundant to say I'm proud of you. You already should know. :) What else have you been keeping to yourself? Joel Bernstein's phone number? :) Colin, - ----- Hey, sorry I kinda jumped on you. I guess it's what you and I do, eh? It's okay with me if you have a love/hate thing going with America. Almost all Americans do too!!! (Not that you need permission from ANYONE for your opinions.) Sue Mac, - ------- Are you coming to the Catskills? I'd like to meet you. You and Simon may be the most elusive of JMDLers. Simon, - ----- Wow! You stay in the background most of the time, but when you post, you always, and I mean ********** ALWAYS ********** bring along something great. To all, - ------ I recently got 7 classic CDs from Columbia House for $50, even after including all the ridiculous shipping charges. That's a deal when you can select stuff that defines some of the high points of Western Civ like a re-mastered "Kind Of Blue", and the original cast recording of "West Side Story", some Monk, and J.T.'s single-cd "Live". Remember to set aside some funds for the New Orleans JoniFest CDs, ya'll. Lama Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:52:09 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: nuclear weapons NJC to all concern, i don't care if your a communist, capitalist, socialist, imperialist, democrat, or republican-----to advocate use of nuclear weapons of any yield is fucking INSANE! if history has taught us anything you build a gun, the other side will build a better gun and sooner or later some fanatic will use one of those guns. nuclear weapons will poison mother earth beyond our and our children's children's lifetimes. you might as well believe in the "good fairy" if you believe that a "clean" nuclear weapon exists. we, the u.s.a. already have the most powerful military force ever seen on this earth. why do we need more? i fought in the fields of nam and eventhough we had overwhelming fire power-------we never killed the spirit of the north Vietnamese and you guys know the rest of the story. so it doesn't matter if bush, clinton, eisenhower, or whoever said it. THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS WILL KILL US ALL. if joni was on this list, i'm sure she would voice the same concerns. thanks gene ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:19:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Digest #112 was indispensable !! 100% JC I guess some of our sisters and brothers got left out of Digest #112. It's an important one to 'catch' cause Simon clues us in on some big news. The digest is always available through the links on www.jmdl.com . Here's a link to that particular digest: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2002.n112 Enjoy. Lama ps, I wanna send a shout out to my old friends Mags, M.Russell, Anne S., and Paul C. (Paul was at Julie's house in Pittsburgh for the first JoniFest back in 1843.) It's good to see you all posting again! I can't wait to hear the studio version of Vince's 'take' on "Judgement Of The Moon And Stars". Thanks to those behind the scenes for the GREAT audience recordings from the BSN tour. You know who you are. Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:24:13 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC In a message dated 3/14/02 8:29:42 PM, donjuansrd80@hotmail.com writes: >I guess I said, "What was her deal?" >because the only interviews I have seen her in or have her speaking somehow >deal with drugs and the 60's and how great it was It was. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:45:42 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: VG8 - njc Marian (or anyone else), I understand how the VG-8's processor transposes the pitches of the strings to conform to the programmed tuning, but what I don't understand is what becomes of the albeit minimal but still present acoustic sound of the guitar's strings? I suppose if you turn up your amp loud enough you wouldn't hear it, but at lower volumes wouldn't you hear a faint residue of the original pitches of the strings themselves, which would obviously conflict with the transposed pitches? - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:51:02 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: VG8 - njc > Marian (or anyone else), I understand how the VG-8's processor transposes the > pitches of the strings to conform to the programmed tuning, but what I don't > understand is what becomes of the albeit minimal but still present acoustic > sound of the guitar's strings? I suppose if you turn up your amp loud enough > you wouldn't hear it, but at lower volumes wouldn't you hear a faint residue > of the original pitches of the strings themselves, which would obviously > conflict with the transposed pitches? > > -Fred This is something I've wondered about myself. Those strings have to be making some kind of noise. It seems the person playing the guitar would be able to hear it. I would think that would throw them off. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:58:33 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Reporting from Asheville(njc) Actually, I'm in Athens and in Atlanta for the weekend but I'll be going back up to Asheville Sunday night. I spent the week working at this new job. I don't think I could have found a better opportunity. The people I'm working with are very nice and it's a really small (yet quite successful) company. They sell at art festivals year round in cities from all over so there's a good chance they'll be appearing near your town some time soon. The new headquarters are in a warehouse that sits right on the French Broad River. I can literally walk out the back door and down to the waterfront a few yards away. Right now we're working out of a home where four cats and four dogs live. The cats constantly walk around while we're working, hopping over the computer to get to the window ledge. It's very pleasant having them hang around. I had to walk one of them today. And I found an incredible apartment today as well, one that was not advertised in the paper, but I happened to call about an ad I saw written on a really small piece of paper on the bookstore wall and it turned out to be this handcrafted apartment that really seems more like a work of art than an apartment. There's a good sized kitchen with lots of sunlight and a kind of earth colored stone walls, heart pine floors, a bathroom off to the side with various designs made of colored tile, an arched doorway, into a blue room with a working fireplace with a marble hearth and a large walk in closet space. Its in a big wooden house with three floors and an attic with a nice view from above. It seems just like a dream house. Just driving by mountains every day is nice...I didn't expect everything to work out so splendidly. I definately feel like I'm in the right place. Victor NP: Eugene Friesen cello w/ Paul Halley piano& pipe organ --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com"Roses wait for the springtime,They sleep beneath the ground.They hear March winds a callin'For the spring to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:05:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Michael From Mountains Since buying Judy Collins' 'Wildflowers' I've been sort of hearing 'Michael From Mountains' with new ears. All these years that I've been listening to Joni's version on 'Song To A Seagull' I've always thought this song (and all the songs on STAS) had a very pretty melody. But hearing it in a more orchestral setting on 'Wildflowers' has made me hear just how unique & unusual this melody is. I think it was Fred who wrote a post about loving Joni's early songs because the melodies were more interesting and unusual. If I remember right, Fred, you mentioned that Joni's early songs often seemed to shift between minor & major chords or keys and that this created an effect that you admired. I'm not a musician so please excuse my fumbling for terminology & my ignorance. But listening to Judy's version of 'MFM' (hey that could be 'Michael From Mountains' or 'Man From Mars' - sometimes those anagrams can get confusing) I'm pretty sure I can distinctly hear what you were referring to. The phrase 'There's oil in puddle in taffeta patterns' sounds like a major key to me but then the following phrase 'that run down the drain' sounds minor. Am I right or did I land in a puddle and now I'm all wet? The funny thing is that this never struck me as particularly different or remarkable in Joni's version of the song. It was just part of the melody & I never thought much about it. But in the Judy Collins version it is so obvious to me. It really gives me a new appreciation of this particular song and of course of the genius behind it. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 0:5:36 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: VG8 - njc > This is something I've wondered about myself. Those strings have to be > making some kind of noise. It seems the person playing the guitar would be > able to hear it. I would think that would throw them off. > > Mark E in Seattle Actually, when I played one at Jonifest 2001 what threw me off was how "little" I heard or felt from the strings. All I noticed was the sound from the amp...I couldn't feel any of the dynamics or the natural swell and decay of the strings that are so much a part of the acoustic guitar. It was that absence that I noticed and it was very unsettling. I agree that they are amazing instruments but I think I would find it hard to get used to playing one. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:57:10 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long colin wrote: > I understand your objection to anti American sentiment. I don;t undertsand your > obnjection to the reporting of Bush's statement that he is prepared to use > nukes. He said ti. It is not a lie. To reprot it is not fearmongering. it is > something we all need to know. To report it fourth hand, embellished, before Bush made his own statement, from a classified Pentagon report leak given to a commentary writer at the L.A. Times is what I objected to. > On BBC's question time tonight, this subject came up. I leanred some stuff I > didn't know. Like how the USA(and I assume the UK) were friends with Saddam and > helped him invade Iran and supplied him with the technology and weapons. The > fell out over his invading of Kuwait. Right. I want to learn more about the why the U.S. has been involved in the middle east, at great expense of lives, money and political fall-out all these years. Has it really been primarily to protect Europe's access to the oil and shelter Israel? About supporting regimes in the past that are now enemies - lots of people in Europe and around the world supported Hitler, too, or looked the other way in the beginning, until they saw the light. > The anti American sentiment is widespread and it is real and it is there for > good reasons. Stating this fact is not an attack on you personally or anyone > else, except those people that have the power in your country. The UK too has > equally stained hands. The UK or former British Empire controlled a lot of the Middle East and set up a lot of the countries where there are problems today. However, do the Americans rant and rave about this and put it all on them to this day? I find a lot of the anti-American sentiment in the U.K. and Europe just mindboggling. As if they can just ignore the fact that it is their national corporations that are some of the most largest and powerful in the U.S. The biggest oil corporations in the U.S. are not named "Bush" but rather British Petroleum and (Dutch) Shell Oil Company. Most of the major record companies are foreign-owned. The German and British have the lock on the luxury car market in the U.S. The largest pharmaceutical company is German and several of the largest scientific concerns are also German. I heard at one time that the largest personal landholder in the U.S. is Queen Elizabeth. Yet their newspapers and citizens spit in our faces and we are suppose to be intellectually above it all and demur cooperatively. I cannot help but react to some of this at times - at other times, I wonder why do I even care at all. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:17:26 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Copy Cat (NJC) behind the scenes: Now, Mrs. Doubtfire >whole scene was ad-libbed -- they let Stephan go crazy with the makeup, >following up suggestions by Williams, Fierstein and Stephan himself. >Stephan >says he's never laughed so much on a set in his life. Stephan reports that >Williams also adlibbed all those scenes in which he put on different >voices, Thanks Walt, for the "Stephan" stories. While watching various scenes it crossed my mind at times there was some definite ad-libbing happening. Well,Robin Williams is just bursting with these creative juices/energy and is naturally funny anyway. I think any director would have a hard time keeping him under control:Following the script verbatim that is. I think Robin would have gotten such a kick out of seeing this old lady.. lol. I was having as much fun watching and enjoying her as I did the movie. >Right now, btw, Stephan is working with the ever-swooney George Clooney, >who's directing his first movie. and he promised me & Robert that if we >could make our way down >to L.A. (Stephan *loves* Disneyland), he'd *try* to get us a brief "hello" >meeting with George himself. Yikes! Go for it!! Forget about the mess you are in and do it!! Life is so fuckin short!! Now wouldn't you and Robert rather say to your grandchildren or great nieces and nephews that you were on a movie set and met GEORGE CLOONEY. OR.. I ALMOST got to go on a movie set and WOULD HAVE met George. hummmm? >I would say that I envied Stephan's life, but he works ungodly hours under >sometimes hideous conditions; he's had the flu twice up in Toronto. >Still, >the money ain't too bad, and he gets to touch people like George Clooney! Yes,he does sound like he has an interesting life. But grass is always greener...... I do love the the thought of those ungodly hours though. Take care, Bree >Best, > >Walt _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:57:10 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long colin wrote: > I understand your objection to anti American sentiment. I don;t undertsand your > obnjection to the reporting of Bush's statement that he is prepared to use > nukes. He said ti. It is not a lie. To reprot it is not fearmongering. it is > something we all need to know. To report it fourth hand, embellished, before Bush made his own statement, from a classified Pentagon report leak given to a commentary writer at the L.A. Times is what I objected to. > On BBC's question time tonight, this subject came up. I leanred some stuff I > didn't know. Like how the USA(and I assume the UK) were friends with Saddam and > helped him invade Iran and supplied him with the technology and weapons. The > fell out over his invading of Kuwait. Right. I want to learn more about the why the U.S. has been involved in the middle east, at great expense of lives, money and political fall-out all these years. Has it really been primarily to protect Europe's access to the oil and shelter Israel? About supporting regimes in the past that are now enemies - lots of people in Europe and around the world supported Hitler, too, or looked the other way in the beginning, until they saw the light. > The anti American sentiment is widespread and it is real and it is there for > good reasons. Stating this fact is not an attack on you personally or anyone > else, except those people that have the power in your country. The UK too has > equally stained hands. The UK or former British Empire controlled a lot of the Middle East and set up a lot of the countries where there are problems today. However, do the Americans rant and rave about this and put it all on them to this day? I find a lot of the anti-American sentiment in the U.K. and Europe just mindboggling. As if they can just ignore the fact that it is their national corporations that are some of the most largest and powerful in the U.S. The biggest oil corporations in the U.S. are not named "Bush" but rather British Petroleum and (Dutch) Shell Oil Company. Most of the major record companies are foreign-owned. The German and British have the lock on the luxury car market in the U.S. The largest pharmaceutical company is German and several of the largest scientific concerns are also German. I heard at one time that the largest personal landholder in the U.S. is Queen Elizabeth. Yet their newspapers and citizens spit in our faces and we are suppose to be intellectually above it all and demur cooperatively. I cannot help but react to some of this at times - at other times, I wonder why do I even care at all. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:02:58 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: nuclear weapons NJC gene mock wrote: > to all concern, i don't care if your a communist, capitalist, socialist, > imperialist, democrat, or republican-----to advocate use of nuclear weapons of > any yield is fucking INSANE! I think the capitalized words much describe the Pentagon planning under Rumsfeld, and as well captures the essense of this entire administration. Not since the days of Barry Goldwater advocating the use of nuclear bombs in Vietnam has there been such an asinine comment , other than Reagan's advocating the possibility of the same ("low yield" nuclear weapons) in Europe back in what, 1982? Every 20 years the horrid spectre of nuclear weapons use is raised in this country and we wonder why the rest of the world looks at us as crazed. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:36:26 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: VG8 - njc Indeed, there is acoustic sound produced by the untransposed strings. This is not noticeable if you play with headphones or if, when using an amp, it is turned up loud enough (it really doesn't need to be very loud to block out the sound of the true tuning of the strings). I have a very small keyboard amplifier - it's maybe only 10W (possibly 20W) - that I sometimes use at home and sometimes, if I don't turn up the sound enough, I hear the two sets of sounds - it's really more annoying than confusing, but I solve the problem by turning up the volume a little bit. I actually prefer playing with headphones at home because the quality of the sound seems so much better than with the little amplifier, but I think this is a function of the size of the amplifier - if I had a bigger and better amp, I would probably prefer to use it rather than headphones. In the band, I always play my e-guitar w/VG-8 now and no one has ever commented on the two sets of sounds, but of course the volume there has to be much louder than at home because of the drums and the other band instruments. Marian Fred wrote: > Marian (or anyone else), I understand how the VG-8's > processor transposes the pitches of the strings to > conform to the programmed tuning, but what I don't > understand is what becomes of the albeit minimal but > still present acoustic sound of the guitar's strings? > I suppose if you turn up your amp loud enough you > wouldn't hear it, but at lower volumes wouldn't you > hear a faint residue of the original pitches of the > strings themselves, which would obviously > conflict with the transposed pitches? > > -Fred Mark wrote: > This is something I've wondered about myself. Those > strings have to be making some kind of noise. It seems > the person playing the guitar would be able to hear it. > I would think that would throw them off. > Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #115 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?