From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #114 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, March 14 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 114 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [colin ] Re: Bush (NJC) long [colin ] RE: VG8 - njc [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Attention United Kingdom!!!!! (Now NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Bush (NJC) long ["Kakki" ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [Randy Remote ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [Gil Lamont ] Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Bush (NJC) long [Randy Remote ] NJC Re: Cover of "Passion Play" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] (njc)Debra Wilson (of Mad TV's) take on Whitney (and Aries Spears on Bobby Brown) [BigWaltin] Re: The Twin Lights (njc) and the CBS documentary. [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Airline security (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Was there a #112? (sjc?) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Grace Slick NJC [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: Bush (NJC) Long [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [WARREN901@aol.] Re: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me [Gary Zack ] Re: Grace Slick NJC [FredNow@aol.com] fred simon, kind words for dolly njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... [anne@sandstrom.] Re: Kind Words for Dolly [FredNow@aol.com] thanks julius njc ["mack watson-bush" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:47:51 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: JONI: CBC-TV and PBS/American Masters >Tuesday, March 26 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 1 >Tuesday, April 2 at 7:00 pm - Joni Mitchell - Part 2 Thanks so much for posting all this wonderful news, Simon - If anyone has the time (and facilities) to make a copy on PAL, I would be happy to send the 'loonies' and would be eternally grateful. >PS: there may? be a 4th. May the 4th be with you! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:17:57 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: VG8 > Oh, I do love the VG-8! And it's true! I love sitting down with it > and being able to flip from the Black Crow tuning into the tuning for > Magdalene Laundries without even thinking twice! Sometimes I sit down with > it and flip through all the tunings, playing a little bit of each song along > the way. It's really fun! > > > Marian > > Wait a minute, I thought this kind of gizmo was for sound patches (and 8-vegetable juice cocktails). It does tunings too? How is this miracle accomplished? Do you need a special e-guitar? Details please on this potential lifesaver. Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:43:13 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long > From there it was apparently picked up by the perennial > anti-American U.K. Guardian and the Mirror, the same U.K. tabloid who > published the full page photo screaming "Torture" about the U.S. treatment > of detainees in Cuba. Just like a game of telephone (and to promote their > agenda and sell papers) now they were saying that Bush was going to nuke a > bunch of countries. So the BBC news, their current affairs programs, Channel 4 news and their current affairs programs,, ITV news and their current affairs programs, government spokespeople, Balir etc are all anti American and no better than a tabloid? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:24 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long > . Small tactical nukes have been around for at least a > decade and from what I've read (although I don't know for a fact) were first > developed by the Russians. It doesn't matter who developed them at all. Blaming the Russians if the US use them is daft. It is the uS(supported by UK) who is threatening to use them. Where they come from, who made them, who developed, how long they have been arround are red herrings. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:59 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: VG8 - njc On Thursday, 14 March, 2002 11:18 Laurent Olszer [mailto:olszer@xlsecurity.com] wrote: >> Oh, I do love the VG-8! > Wait a minute, I thought this kind of > gizmo was for sound patches (and > 8-vegetable juice cocktails). > It does tunings too? How is this > miracle accomplished? Do you need > a special e-guitar? Details please > on this potential lifesaver. > Thanks > Laurent The VG-8 is Roland's virtual guitar system (it has since been replaced by the VG-88, which Paz says isn't as good, but you can still find VG-8's for sale if you look around). To use it, you need an electric guitar - it doesn't have to be a really expensive one, but it should be one that stays in tune. I have a Squier Strat which only cost about $110 and it stays in tune like a charm. You only need the guitar for the purpose of making vibrations with the strings which are then sent via a pickup to the VG-8. Joni's guitar is a really expensive Parker Fly that is very lightweight which is important because of her back problems, but it contributes nothing to the sounds that come out of the VG-8 other than the string vibrations. I suppose if you need an e-guitar that you want to just play without the VG-8, it would be wonderful to have a Parker. Anyway, you also need the Roland GK-2A pickup. This is what sends the string vibrations from the guitar to the VG-8. And of course you also need a special cable to connect the GK-2A pickup to the VG-8 and a power cable to connect the VG-8 to the mains. If you don't want to buy a speaker, you can use the VG-8 with your stereo headphones, just what you will hear hear when you play will sound really different from what other people will hear, especially if you are in a tuning. In the VG-8, there are 64 "patches" (memory locations) for the user to store her/his own settings, and it's possible to have a different tuning stored in every one of the 64 locations. To change from one patch to another, you turn a dial or push a button. In addition to the 64 user settings, there are many factory settings, including Martin, Taylor and Ovation 6-string and 12 string guitar sounds and all kinds of heavy metal sounds as well as that funky sound that Joni used for Harlem in Havanah, and much much more - some really very nice sounds. You can get more info about vg-8s at this URL: http://www.vg-8.com Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:34 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Attention United Kingdom!!!!! (Now NJC) Ashara wrote >I'm aiming for the Cambridge Folk Festival, which is August 1-4. >(I would say "we're" aiming for it, but the truth is, Sal will be going >there kicking and screaming.) LOL!! Buy him a 'boater', put him in a 'punt' and let him drift off downstream on the River Cam, while you get down to some serious folking. The Cambridge Festival Box Office opens on 1st May (and usually sells out really quickly) - I'll remind you around that time - I think you can reserve tickets online at http://www.cam-folkfest.co.uk/ - you can sign up for their advance information mailing list. They haven't announced who'll be playing this year yet but I'll let you know as soon as I get word. >The other thing I really want to do is go down to the Cornwall, >Devon, Newquay area. Do any of you have ideas of what else >we should see and do? The Sidmouth Folk Festival in the East Devon seaside town runs until 9th August (buy Sal a Sowester and set him adrift on a fishing boat in the English Channel) - this year they have a few of your faves, I see, including Martin Carthy (in concert with Martin Simpson), Kate Rusby (with her hubby John McCusker and friends), Ashley Hutchings and friends, Australian guitarist Tommy Emmanuel (brilliant) and Cara Dillon (have you heard her album yet? -I think you'd really love it). See http://www.sidmouthfestival.com/ for details. Then you could wizz back up to the Cropredy Festival near Banbury in Oxfordshire (buy Sal a "Cock Horse' and let him ride it to Banbury Cross) while you see Richard Thompson and the 35th Anniversay reunion of Fairport Convention featuring Iain Matthews, Ashley Hutchings, Dave Swarbrick, Simon Nicol, Vikki Clayton & Gerry Conway on 9th and 10th August, plus Eddi Reader, wonderful US banjo player Alison Brown and others -see http://www.folkcorp.co.uk/woodworm/crop2002.htm And, of course, there has to be a mini-Jonifest somewhere in between (where Sal can model his boater, sowester and cock horse!!) All the best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:15:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re:Very good "Be Good Tanyas" (NJC) <> Me! I'm ashamed to say it, but this show promised to be SO bad, to probe the very caverns of depravity, that I simply HAD to take it in. And there were some great highlights. Barry Williams gets courage points just for flaunting that spare tire & sagging pectorals on network TV. The Todd/V-Ice contest was a snoozer. As predicted, the Tonya-Paula matchup was the best. You knew poor Paula was doomed the moment she stuck her arms in the air and the granny arms started swaying in the breeze. "Battle of the Network Trailer Trash". Bob NP: Jethro Tull, "Heavy Horses", 3/16/80 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:22:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long Speaking of Bush, I about did a Danny Thomas coffee take this AM when I read in the paper that Dubya is not going to recognize Mr. Mugabe, the President of Zimbabwe, because the ELECTION WAS FLAWED!!!! GEORGE BUSH?? Not acknowledging an elected official because **their** election was flawed???? As Paul Simon would say..."who do you think you're fooling?" Luckily I didn't have a mouthful of java, because I was laughing so hard I almost coughed up a lung. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:20:55 EST From: Abbymusique@aol.com Subject: Re: Kim Carnes in Atlanta NJC Just to update everyone, I did go see Kim Carnes last weekend and enjoyed it very much. It was an unplugged-type performance with guitars, mandolin, electric piano, and simple percussion (no drums). There were two other songwriters singing with her. I forgot the name of the guy, but the other woman was Matraca Berg, who wrote "Strawberry Wine" and many other country hits, most of them being recorded by other artists. I think that most of the crowd was there for her, and it was funny, because everyone went crazy when Kim Carnes sang "Bette Davis Eyes" at the end, but nobody seemed to be familiar with her other songs, which proves my point maybe that she has been overlooked for the most part all these years. Of cousrse, I wouldn't compare her to Joni, but I love her voice, like her songs, and was thrilled to get to speak to her personally when it was over, because I am a fan, for whatever it's worth. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:37:08 EST From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #112 Hmmm. Just noticed something. For some strange reason, I never received JMDL Digest #112. Would someone please forward it to me personally? I'd really appreciate it! XXXOOO, Billy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:46:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #112 NJC Billy: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2002.n112 You can go to the "Archive" section on the JMDL Homepage and pull up old digests with no prob. Once again, Les' prodigious web skills makes our lives pretty easy! Bob NP: Jethro Tull, "Hunting Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:49:27 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: "Just Like A Woman"; "Suzanne" (VLJC) > Big Walt in SF wrote: >(1) This may be an old discussion for some of you, but the song "Just Like >Me" almost seems like Joni's answer to the song (almost certainly by Dylan, >but I seem to remember quite a few other people sang it, even at least one >woman) that went: > >"She [blanks] just like a woman, >She [blanks] just like a woman, >And she [blanks] just like a woman, >But she breaks (just) like a little girl." > Yes, this is a Bob Dylan song, and at least one woman has covered it: Judy Collins (there I go again!) had a whole album titled "Judy Collins Sings Bob Dylan ... Just Like A Woman." >(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the >river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but >many artists have covered it. "Suzanne" is by Joni's fellow Canadian Leonard Cohen. (J.C. covered this one, too.) I get the jmdl on digest, and probably, others will have supplied this info earlier. And I'll have to defer to others to respond to your inquiries about parallels to Joni's compositions. Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:19:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... <> It's possible...that's a good point too, Walt. Don't know that anyone's ever made it. "Just Like A Woman" was from Dylan's '66 release Blonde On Blonde, and Joni's song was most likely penned in '66-'67, so it could have been a response of sorts. It would be worthwhile to visit the lyrics of both and see where the similarities lie. It IS certainly common knowledge that Joni was listening to Dylan. <<(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >> "reminds you"? ;~) It sounds like a basic re-write to me. BUT I don't know much about Cohen as I can't get past his yucky singing voice. They hung out together and did some early folk fests together, whether one influenced the other here I don't know, but the similarity is SO strong that it would be hard to believe that the two songs were written independently. This would be another question for Joni for whoever sees her next! :~) Bob NP: Jewel, "Pieces Of You" you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but many artists have covered it. Anyhoo, "TWoI" reminds me musically (i.e., as opposed to lyrically") to the Suzanne song -- not exactly, but there are a lot of parallels. Anybody else think so? My apologies to those who haven't heard thre songs -- at least the lyrics to them are (I think) at jmdl.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:15:56 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long I have no idea what those other news outlets reported but it sounds like market share and keeping up with the fearmongers (fear sells) might be more important to them than responsible journalism. And the Guardian is the newspaper I called anti-American because on any given day of the week or year I can read something there that is nasty, sneering and often untrue about U.S. policy. Such consistency tells me they are also selling to a particular niche market. Kakki > So the BBC news, their current affairs programs, Channel 4 news and their > current affairs programs,, ITV news and their current affairs programs, > government spokespeople, Balir etc are all anti American and no better than a > tabloid? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:19:27 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long There was nothing in my post that said I blamed the Russians. I was simply discussing the background of the development of small tactical nukes. For all my life it seemed that the U.S. and Russian competed with each other to have this or that weapon. That's old news to most here. It is not a red herring to discuss the background of them, especially when some of the reports have been written as if to indicate they are brand new and that Bush has somehow conceived them and/or wants to spend billions to develop them. Kakki > It doesn't matter who developed them at all. Blaming the Russians if the US use > them is daft. It is the uS(supported by UK) who is threatening to use them. > Where they come from, who made them, who developed, how long they have been > arround are red herrings. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:10:03 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > (2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", > you know, It's more than similar (I just heard this song for the first time a coupla nights ago) it is a lift. Same music, some of the lyrics mirror the original Leonard Cohen song. I'm sure she was conscious of what she was doing, and my guess is that she intended it as a homage or love-note to Cohen, who she surely bumped into on the coffeehouse circuit. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:57:42 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Copy Cat (NJC) behind the scenes: Now, Mrs. Doubtfire In a message dated 3/13/02 2:27:36 PM, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: << I watched "Mrs..Doubtfire" last night.3AM,I was sitting with a client and she couldn't sleep, so she watched it with me. (she is 89 years old)(it was such fun watching her laugh out loud;something you don't see too much with the elderly) Any behind the scenes stories on this movie? >> Yes, Bree, Stephan woked on that one, too. His arm appears in one scene as an extra -- the one in which Robin Williams' brother, played by the ever-drano-voice Harvey Fierstein, helps him try on different "looks"; that whole scene was ad-libbed -- they let Stephan go crazy with the makeup, following up suggestions by Williams, Fierstein and Stephan himself. Stephan says he's never laughed so much on a set in his life. Stephan reports that Williams also adlibbed all those scenes in which he put on different voices, playing horrible applicants calling up Sally fields, applying for the position as their kids' nanny. Right now, btw, Stephan is working with the ever-swooney George Clooney, who's directing his first movie. Most of the shooting has been up in Toronto, but the last two weeks will be done on a lot in L.A. -- Stephan's hoping he can make a two-day pit stop here sometime in late March on his way down there; and he promised me & Robert that if we could make our way down to L.A. (Stephan *loves* Disneyland), he'd *try* to get us a brief "hello" meeting with George himself. Yikes! Sadly, that's looking unlikely, given the mess we're in, do to evil family members (Robert's, not mine) and even more evil lawyers. (Define rapacious: calling someone up to scream at them because their elderly mother refused to sign a paper, blame the elderly mother, and then bill for the phone call. See: Lawyer hired by R's evil sister. But I'd better stop there.) I would say that I envied Stephan's life, but he works ungodly hours under sometimes hideous conditions; he's had the flu twice up in Toronto. Still, the money ain't too bad, and he gets to touch people like George Clooney! Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:09 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long Kakki wrote: Can someone point to a source that will explain what civil liberties of mine > have been recently curtailed (other than extra security measures at the > airport). http://www.ccr-ny.org/whatsnew/usa_patriot_act.asp http://www.aclu.org/congress/l110101a.html A good place to start is to look into the 342-page USA Patriot Act. While you could argue that the Act, signed by Bush, was passed by the House and Senate, they did so under pressure from the President and his administration. The Act transfers broad powers away from the legislative to the executive branch of government. It gives law enforcement broad new powers to spy on citizens, conduct secret searches of our homes, tap phones, and intercept email based on any vague pretext of national security they may choose to come up with. Typing a certain phrase into a search engine could be reason enough to collect information on you. A new category of "domestic terrorism" is so loosely defined that a group like Greenpeace, blockading a harbor for instance, could qualify as terrorists and be subjected to severe penalties. If you happen to be an alien: and you ever gave money to a group that becomes identified as terrorist, you are automatically a terrorist. Of course hundreds or thousands of foreigners have been detained, imprisoned, held without charges since Sept. 11. Their families have been dumbfounded by the stonewalling of the administration. Bush has instigated the use of military tribunals which can arrest, try without choice of counsel, convict and even put to death any non-citizen accused of being a terrorist, ALL IN SECRET. The Bush administration has intimated that it may have to resort to methods of torture on certain suspected Al-Queda members it has in custody. http://www.civil-rights.net/webdocs/torture.html ["The recent words of Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who so often figures as the swing vote on pivotal decisions, do not hold out hope for a vigorous defense of our political freedoms by the judiciary. Following a visit to Ground Zero, where the World Trade Centers once stood, the Justice bleakly predicted, "We're likely to experience more restrictions on personal freedom than has ever been the case in this country.""] The struggle for civil freedoms is nothing new. Clinton vastly expanded wiretapping, among other things. Martin Luther King and the Suffragettes were demonized and harrased. More recently, LA cops shot rubber bullets and attacked with clubs protesters at the Democratic convention last year, and arbitrarily arrested and detained 600 people, some just passersby. The Republican convention in Philidelphia was more of the same. Our liberties are at great risk, the terrorism thing is a Trojan Horse for a power-mad aristocracy, and we are no safer for all this than we were Sept. 10, when terrorists waltzed right in. Maybe the FBI etc had better things to do. Sidebar: I recently heard that the government jettisoned a proposal (pre Sept 11) to install inpenetrable doors on commercial jets because it didn't want a "regulated airline industry". Sidebar 2: The new structure of military spending under Bush is costing 1 billion dollars a day. While his tax plan gives billions in relief to the corporados. Other info on the erosion of our civil rights can be found at The Partnership For Civil Justice website, a group founded by civil rights attorneys. http://www.civil-rights.net/ > Also, what has recently happened to curtail reproductive choice? > Bush Replaces Medical Associations with Pro-Life Orgs as Delegates to World Health Assembly http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=5523 Bush has long been supported by the Christian right, who, of course, oppose abortion. Some members of Bush's inner circle have publicly stated their opposition to abortion, even in the case of rape victims. Sorry I can't give you names, maybe someone remembers that well publicized story. I believe the only thing keeping all this in check is that Bush recognizes his chances for re-election would be shot if he went too far on abortion. If men could get pregnant, abortions would be free and paid for by the government. And sanctified by religious groups. God's will or something like that. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:03 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... Walt wrote: >The questions: > >(1) This may be an old discussion for some of you, but the song "Just Like >Me" almost seems like Joni's answer to the song (almost certainly by Dylan, >but I seem to remember quite a few other people sang it, even at least one >woman) that went: > >"She [blanks] just like a woman, >She [blanks] just like a woman, >And she [blanks] just like a woman, >But she breaks (just) like a little girl." > >My memory of this song is obviously sketchy, but it came back to me when I >heard Joni's "Just Like Me" (in which Joni describes the object of her >affections as doing certain things, often confusing behavior, making him >"Just Like Me"), which seems to be almost an answer to the (Dylan?) song. Is >that possible? I don't know the chronology of the two songs, when each was >written. Any comments? I know that Joni has at best mixed feelings about >the Women's Movement, etc., but maybe she was fed up with lyrics like the >above, in which underneath every together woman, there's a breakable little >girl, and this was her response. Just a thought. The song is "Just Like a Woman" by Bob Dylan, that originally appeared on Blonde on Blonde. Although the lyrics have gone through some revisions over the years, the original chorus went: She takes just like a woman, yes, she does She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. I don't see any correlation between Bob's song and Joni's "Just Like Me." >(2) Another Oldie: "The Wizard of Is" reminds me, musically, of "Suzanne", >you know, the one that starts "Suzanne takes you down/to a place by the >river/..." I don't know who wrote it -- it may even be "traditional", but >many artists have covered it. Anyhoo, "TWoI" reminds me musically (i.e., as >opposed to lyrically") to the Suzanne song -- not exactly, but there are a >lot of parallels. Anybody else think so? My apologies to those who haven't >heard thre songs -- at least the lyrics to them are (I think) at jmdl.com. "Suzanne" is by Leonard Cohen and appears on his first album. Originally published as a poem. I don't know "The Wizard of Is" -- it's not at jmdl.com -- although I am reminded of a song by Tom Rapp (Pearls Before Swine) -- "down misty rivers of because/into the Land of Was." Obviously this is of very little help indeed. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:12:59 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Copy Cat (NJC) behind the scenes: Now, Mrs. Doubtfire BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/13/02 2:27:36 PM, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > > << I watched "Mrs..Doubtfire" > Yes, Bree, Stephan woked on that one, too. > Stephan > says he's never laughed so much on a set in his life. Stephan reports that > Williams also adlibbed all those scenes in which he put on different voices, > playing horrible applicants calling up Sally fields, applying for the > position as their kids' nanny. I can relate-Robin was emcee at Bread and Roses in 1980 (Joni played that one as well as '79). At times I was laughing so hard it hurt. I rate Mrs. Doubtfire as one of my favorite movies, and I'm intrigued by the ads for the new DeVito directed Williams vehicle, "Death To Smoochy". How very cool that Stephan had a hand (arm?) in this great film. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:30 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Cover of "Passion Play" Gail Anne Dorsey (bass player for Bowie and Tears for Fears among others) recently performed live on KCRW. She did a cover of "Passion Play" that was very straight but quite nice. She reminds me a bit of Phoebe Snow. I recorded it and can supply a .wav or .mp3 for anyone who wants it. Brenda n.p.: Gail Anne Dorsey - "Passion Play" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:16:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me OK Walt, I've looked over both songs. Like I said, Dylan's song was first released in 1966, Joni's is copyrighted 1968. So the chronology certainly works out, but I'm not sure that it's a "response" song per se. But there are some interesting comparisons. Dylan sings: "I can't stay in here - Ain't it clear that I just can't fit. Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit." Joni sings: "If he'd drop his defenses you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man, but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you as fast as he can." Dylan sings: "It was raining from the first, and I was dying there of thirst, so I came in here" Joni sings: "just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, saying welcome, lay your troubles down" Joni also describes the object of her song as: "so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less for us all. He's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll never acknowledge their call". The first part of that is a fair description of Dylan's detachment, and the last might/would apply to the fact that he changed his name from that given to him by his "descendent". (Zimmerman to Dylan) She also says: "the songs that he sings they have loneliness woven between every line", which is a fair assessment of "Just Like A Woman". To see the complete lyric to "Just Like Me", you can go to: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/JustLikeMe.cfm I'm a rookie with Dylan lyrics, so I'd certainly like to hear what you Dylanites think. Bob NP: Jethro Tull, "Witches Promise" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:20:41 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) long Re: the statement on my last post: Sidebar: I recently heard that the government jettisoned a proposal (pre Sept 11) to install inpenetrable doors on commercial jets because it didn't want a "regulated airline industry". I meant to say "inpenetrable cockpit doors", which would have prevented the Sept 11 tragedy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Cover of "Passion Play" <> Brenda, you ARE the bomb! (Except for you should have sent this to me WITHOUT my resorting to this grovel!) :~) MP3 would be prefereable, but I can work with either. Bob, still suffering from back pains from laying on the floor last night transferring Sheena Easton's "Raised on Robbery" from VHS to CD! NP: Jethro Tull, "Minstrel In The Gallery" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:19:39 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc)Debra Wilson (of Mad TV's) take on Whitney (and Aries Spears on Bobby Brown) Hi, all, One of the funniest things on Mad TV (which over-does character-driven stuff sometimes, as much as I love Alex Borstein's maddeningly vague Ms. Swan) is Debra Wilson's emotionally volatile, pot-smoking Whitney, occasionally joined by her dumpy, out-of-it, coke-addled husband, Bobby Brown (played by Aries Spears). Debra is perfectly able to capture Whitney's use of effortless, heartless, soulless, feellingless melismata. Really a scream. She'll be in the middle of one long wandering "note", when she suddenly takes offence (for no apparent reason) at one of the backup singers or even someone in the audience and start shouting at them, only to abruptly return to where she left off in her singing. When "Bobby" joins here, he spends most of his time smiling blankly with white powder on his face, or trying to get whitney to make out while she's singing. Don't know to what extent this is based on Whitney's or Bobby's actualy behavior. Frightening but funny. The show (MAD TV) gets repetitive, but it's worth checking out from time to time. my 2c, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:24 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: The Twin Lights (njc) and the CBS documentary. In a message dated 3/11/02 11:10:17 PM, Smurph wrote: << It's chilling enough to see the broken New York skyline as it is today without the memory of this horrible attack lighting up the skies over lower Manhattan for decades to come. >> Hey, Bob, Don't know if you have since heard, but from what i understand, the twin beams will only be up for a month or so; don't know if it will be re-lit from time to time, or what. Just heard it on the TV last night, myself. Thought everybody who hand't heard might like to know. Screwed up the taping of the two-hour documentary on CBS the other night, so I've only seen the first half. Was weeping openly, but still want to see the rest of it. Hope they repeat it. Hugs to all, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Airline security (NJC) Randy, Are you referring to the airport security plan devised and instituted by FAA Aviation Administrator Linda Daschle (wife of Tom) and Al Gore a few years ago? Kakki > Re: the statement on my last post: > Sidebar: I recently heard that the government >jettisoned a proposal (pre Sept 11) to install >inpenetrable doors on commercial jets >because it didn't want a "regulated airline >industry". > I meant to say "inpenetrable cockpit doors", >which would have prevented the Sept 11 >tragedy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:28:43 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Was there a #112? (sjc?) Hi, Les (and all), Was there a digest #112? I didn't get it (got #111 and #113), and given how my luck's running lately, didn't know if it was just me, or whether the automatic numbering device (or whatever) just skipped a beat. Best, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:52:27 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC There was a question of what of Grace to listen to...Blows against the Empire is great, or her first solo disc Manhole is available on import. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:12 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Bush (NJC) Long I feel personally Kakki, that some of the insinuating remarks from Bush and his administration have often indicated we'll have to give up some "comforts" to fight terrorism and keep us safe. In my mind this is inflammatory and excuses any invasions made into our personal lives. I know it seems small and necessary now, but I fear this leads us to a more disciplined, in-check society. When bad things happen, we all feel like we could do with a few more rules. But the bottom lineis it erodes our civil liberties,freedoms and choices. I also feel - that yes - some of the airport security is out of line. I hope no one here will take this and blow it out of proportion. But some of the cavity searches, shoe removals and extensive bag checks will and are leading to the government's knowing just too much about our personal business. I feel it can also be used as a witch hunt. I wonder what has become of the person who carries small amounts of prescription drugs or even pot, this could be called an unwarrated search - in days gone by. And finaly Bush's very first judicial apointee has sparked huge concerns as far as "civil liberties" are concerned - and reproductive rights. Aren't judges supposed to be unbiased? Where the hell are all the moderates - have they no back bone, they have all but disappeared in our system. I welcome their return, right now in this country it's one constant tug-of-war between the left and right. Where is, not compromise but common sense and sympathy and understadning of the other side? We have a Cold War going on right here in our own country right now! Kakki wrote: Anyone who thinksdissension is anti-American is very simplistic. I could not agree more Kakki. But admittedly, I have slung those arrows myself, in the heat of debate. Especially towards Buchannan followers. It is sometimes just a human thing to try and push eachothers buttons. Kakki, you asked about the pot smoking and terrorist funding. Accordng to Dubya, anyone who uses drugs is helping fund terrorists to fund their wars & agendas. This coming from the Bush family, who attained their wealth by way of oil! Many are also saying now that diamond harvesting is the business of choice for terrorists. Am I now to point a finger at every jewel wearing hootchie and label them a terrorist or traitor. I know you are a tolerant human, and I respect your opinion, as you know, so please know that I am not pointing my chubby finger at you. I just get caught up in the heat of the debate. Kakki wrote: I would't be surprised at this point if 99% of Americans agree, including the administration. ... the U.S. only gets something like 10% of our oil from there these days. Well, I am sure you are correct. But the point issince the oil embargo of the 70's, we have not taken any major steps in alleviating our reliance. The oil &auto industies and their ties to most of the past administrations has played a huge part in this. For awhile thereafter, late 70's early 80's, we took to cars that were highly gas efficient. But in the past 15 years or so we drifted away and are now hooked on cars/SUVs with terrible gas mileage once again. While research has not been pursued as much with a more permanent solution. Although some have seen the light, and as Bill Mahr has often pointed out on his show. Why hasn't there been the hot pursuit of the hybrid car's perfection? Not sure if I am spelling or naming it correcly. I believe it is oil companies and American car makers stubbornes and fiscal fears. We are trying to rely on a limited resource to continue to feed us. Also, I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember that 10% has pretty much always been our benchmark as far back as the oil embargo of the 70's. For some reason I seem to recall that but I can't tell you what I did 5 minutes ago! Kakki wrote: A pentagon report (which I don't think any of us have seen) was leaked to a "commentary" writer who wrote about it in the L.A. Times. Small tactical nukes have been around for at least a decade and from what I've read (although I don't know for a fact) were developed by the Russians. Then the U.S. started developement of their own and who knows what other countries. They are nothing new and certainly not a sudden Dr. Stranglovian dream of the Bush administration. And no, this does not mean I am for nuking anyone Well I getting this vibe that you do not appreciate this guy from the L.A. Times. But the news seems to be that there is some accuracy to this story. Bush and Powell have bothe been in the news responding to it. Bush has made no apologies and is keeping that option open. While Powell has been, and I am no fan of his either, backing off that stance - more so. I understand your concerns about the leaking of sensitive documents, but I am glad I know about this and have the chance to object. I trust you are not for nuking anyone Kakki. You are correct from everything I have heard/read, the Russians did develop the "suitcase nukes" as I recall. But I too fail to see how this changes anything. To be the leader of the free world, and to be throwing around disturbing threats like this is reckless. I happen to love that movie by the way but I fear that our cowboy Dubya would look very comfortable riding that mustang! Thanks for letting me go on again! I look forward to more insight and opinions. And if I seeem to get out of line Kakki - sorry, you know it's not personal. Peace Susan Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:01:00 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... hello joinitites ! i wanted to let walt know that the song " suzanne " was written by leonard cohen. speaking of leonard, someone mentioned a photo in an earlier post of joni and leonard at the newport folk festival in "67. ( the photo was by david gahr.) i have a small paper back book entitled, " joni mitchell: her life, her loves, her music, " by leonore fleischer , published in 1976. it is filled with wonderful photos including the one mentioned in the post. i received it from a friend the year it was published and have always cherished it for the photos. ( said friend was constanly picking up " little joni things " for me .) the book is in a 7" x 10" format and was published by flash books, is anyone familair with it ? ( i always thought it odd that her music was the last thing mentioned in the title. perhaps it was the way that it rolled off the tongue that was important !) i also have a book entitled, " rock lives," by timothy white .it was published in 1990. the book has short bios and interveiws with about 50 some artists. joni's bio is in the section called pilgrims, it is about 12 pages long. the book is hardcover and has quite a bit of interesting info on all included. moving right along... in the checkout line at the grocery today i noticed life magazine has done a " rock at fifty " publication. i had to look and see if our joan was mentioned. i was disappointed that there was a only a short paragraph and a clouds era photo. ( i wanted there to be a whole chapter devoted to my idol !!!) well enough already... joni and then some, warren keith p.s. i want to take this opportunity to thank the academy...umm i mean simon, for the wonderfully informative and enjoyable post on upcoming " things joni. " i for one am tickled pink !!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:34:56 -0500 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Just Like A Woman/Just Like Me I've taken a particular interest in the song, "Just Like Me." I am sure that I read somewhere or heard on an interview (?) or read in a book, that the song was written for Stephen Stills....I wish I could find the source, it may be Hinton's book (which I know may be unreliable) or the Joni Mitchell Companion, but I'm sure I saw it somewhere. I'll try to find out if I can find something more concrete, but I for some reason had it firmly stuck in my head that the song was written for Stephen. Best regards all, Gary SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > OK Walt, I've looked over both songs. Like I said, Dylan's song was first released in 1966, Joni's is copyrighted 1968. So the chronology certainly works out, but I'm not sure that it's a "response" song per se. > > But there are some interesting comparisons. Dylan sings: > > "I can't stay in here - Ain't it clear that I just can't fit. Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit." > > Joni sings: > > "If he'd drop his defenses you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man, but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you as fast as he can." > > Dylan sings: > > "It was raining from the first, and I was dying there of thirst, so I came in here" > > Joni sings: > > "just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, saying welcome, lay your troubles down" > > Joni also describes the object of her song as: > > "so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less for us all. He's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll never acknowledge their call". > > The first part of that is a fair description of Dylan's detachment, and the last might/would apply to the fact that he changed his name from that given to him by his "descendent". (Zimmerman to Dylan) > > She also says: > > "the songs that he sings they have loneliness woven between every line", which is a fair assessment of "Just Like A Woman". > > To see the complete lyric to "Just Like Me", you can go to: > > http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/JustLikeMe.cfm > > I'm a rookie with Dylan lyrics, so I'd certainly like to hear what you Dylanites think. > > Bob > > NP: Jethro Tull, "Witches Promise" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:17:32 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace Slick NJC In a message dated 3/14/02 3:52:27 PM, Fauchja writes: >There was a question of what of Grace to listen to...Blows against the >Empire is great, or her first solo disc Manhole is available on import. Blows Against the Empire is a favorite of mine, but mostly I prefer Grace with the Airplane on all her albums through Volunteers of America. After that it falls off drastically for me although there are good scattered moments. Peak Grace for me is Surrealistic Pillow, because that's where it started, but even more so After Bathing At Baxter's, Crown of Creation, and Bless It's Pointed Little Head. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:23:09 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: fred simon, kind words for dolly njc A big Dolly fan here. I admire her in many ways though have not purchased that many of her albums. I do have "here you come again." What a delight and a gem. If one is a hopeless romantic, then this album will touch you. mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:34:27 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly I wrote: >Moreover, Dolly [Parton] has never struck me as a harbinger of that which is pleasing to the ear. Fred writes: >May I suggest you check out her two recent >roots/bluegrass albums, The Grass is Blue and Little >Sparrow? You might change your mind. She sounds >exceedingly pleasing to my ears ... always soulful, >sweet and funky by turns, and very down to earth. You may, and I shall. Thanks for the referral, Fred. Your point is well made. In fairness to Ms. Parton, I really should check out her more recent work before I make a blanket statement like the above. Despite having grown up in Texas (or perhaps because I did), I'm somewhat twang intolerant when it comes to my listening pleasure. My ears are still ringing from Dolly's "Nine to Five" era stuff. Back then she seemed to be more sequins than musical substance to me. When it comes to country music, I'm more of a Patsy Cline man. A tough standard to meet, I think. But, I'm more enamored of bluegrass and roots music with each passing day, and I did enjoy Dolly's collaborations with Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt a while back... So, I'll give Dolly's latest a listen. Thanks for reminding me to keep an open mind. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:03:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: fleischer hello WK [we have the same initials], i have the fleischer book too. i bought it 22 years ago in columbia, missouri, of all places. i've always been amazed at how horrible joni looks on page 67, and i've always wondered who julie is on page 51. for years and years this book was the only thing on joni. and then, thanks goodness came wally breese and les... wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Coupla quick questions about pre-album joni songs... > i have a small paper back book entitled, " > joni mitchell: her life, her loves, her music, " > by leonore fleischer , published in 1976. it is filled with wonderful photos > including the one mentioned in the post. i received it from a friend the > year it was published and have always cherished it for the photos. ( said > friend was constanly picking up " little joni things " for me .) the book > is in a 7" x 10" format and was published by flash books, is anyone familair > with it ? Yes! I remember buying this book at the time. I had it for quite a few years, then lent it to someone. Well, that was the last I saw of it :-( But I think pretty much all the photos are on the Web site now. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:16 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Kind Words for Dolly In a message dated 3/14/02 5:34:27 PM, JRMCo1 writes: >My ears are still ringing from Dolly's "Nine to Five" era stuff. Back >then she seemed to be more sequins than musical substance to me. > >When it comes to country music, I'm more of a Patsy Cline man. A tough >standard to meet, I think. But, I'm more enamored of bluegrass and roots >music with each passing day, and I did enjoy Dolly's collaborations with >Emmylou Harris and Linda Ronstadt a while back... So, I'll give Dolly's >latest a listen. Thanks for reminding me to keep an open mind. In that case, Julius, you will probably love The Grass is Blue and Little Sparrow. I can almost guarantee it. They were widely acclaimed as her return to her roots. I'm with you on Patsy Cline. I'd highly recommend Alison Krauss, too, with and without Union Station. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:31:52 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: thanks julius njc Thanks for bringing Dolly up Julius. I dug her out of the album collection and am now enjoying that beautiful music of which I wrote. I made more sweet love to these tunes than any other and even now it can take me away to a blissful place, though bittersweet it is. Dolly is fine on this disc. Baby, won't you come out tonight? just come up the hill cause there's a full moon on the rise hey baby, can't you steal away you know, I really need to see you tonight. I just got word you was packing it in what's the matter? this old town got ya crazy again? I can see the sad look in your eyes but I don't know how to say goodbye. and Tomorrow you're gonna have you're day take your wife and you're gonna run away baby, while I'm waving you'll be sailing like a hawk across the bay. singing ....oooh, la la la la la......... baby, won't you come out tonight? baby, won't you come out tonight? we'll run up the hill and we'll dance in the moonlight let me gaze into your eyes til we both go blind. oh, baby, can I see you tonight. I'm just trying to find a way to make it last good friends they seem to slip away so fast. and I know we're both headed down separate tracks and when you go, baby don't look back. there won't be no more sleeping over on a tuesday night no more running to the races for a darkhorse at midnight no more dancing after hours singing in the showers or clinging to each other in the soft morning light. singing. oooh la la la..................... aw, baby, won't you come out tonight? baby, won't you come out tonight? I'll meet you at the corner and you'll be there at midnight oh, baby, can you steal away? You know, I really wanta see you tonight. Tears flow, even now. Bittersweet, as I said. Dolly has never been better. K. McCord wrote those words, Dolly brought it to life. mack ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #114 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?