From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #102 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 4 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 102 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in History: March 4 [les@jmdl.com] Today's Articles: March 4 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Debut albums NJC [FredNow@aol.com] House Concerts 101 nwjc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Debut albums NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Keys/Norah sjc, long [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni ["hell" ] NJC Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham/Joni (long) [SCJoniGuy@] Ladies, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Step right up - getcher copy of #27 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Judy Collins & Dylan vljc [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: NJC October Project [Gil Lamont ] Re: Grammy Grumblings . . . FTC/DOJ (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: Debut albums NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: Nathan La Franeer [Gil Lamont ] Am I still here? plus some answers re ladies and BAFTAs (NJC) [ReckersL@] Re: Long Live Rock...I mean Dr.Suess(njc) [Gil Lamont ] Re: Dylan njc [Gil Lamont ] Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: dreamland.../ NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: dreamland.../ NJC ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] Re: NJC Debut albums [Gil Lamont ] Re: dreamland.../ NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham NJC [Gil Lamont ] a young-whippersnapper's take on the Grammy's ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: march 3!!!! njc ["Sharon L. Buffington" ] " sweet " judy blue eyes... [WARREN901@aol.com] Chitlins & The Glossary [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chitlins & The Glossary [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Chitlins & The Glossary [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Grammy Grumblings . . . FTC/DOJ (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: march 3!!!! njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni PWWAM on Trio FRI [Randy Remote ] Re: Just In-From The Producers Desk, njc ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] melisma, music theory stuff njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Ally McBeal (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:06:01 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: March 4 On March 4 in Joni Mitchell History: 1974: Joni performs the second of two nights at the Dorothy Chandler Pavillion in Los Angeles. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/7403lat.cfm 1983: Joni performs in Osaka, Japan - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database at http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:06:01 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: March 4 On March 4 the following article was published: 1971: "Joni Takes a Break" - Rolling Stone (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/710304rs.cfm - ------------------------ http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:46:15 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC Another couple of great ones: Pat Metheny - "Bright Size Life" Weather Report - "Weather Report" - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 03:56:39 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: House Concerts 101 nwjc CoyoteRick@aol.com wrote: >>If one has the space, I highly recommend hosting a house concert ... And I highly recommend booking me, Fred Simon, to play a house concert. I'll play some Joni, too. But you need a piano. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:09:09 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC "Blair Fraipont" wrote: >This list makes me think that >DJ Shadow-Endreducing Should be on there too, it is a great first major album "Endreducing" ... is that an exercise program to slim one's butt? (insert emoticon here) I think you may have meant "Endtroducing." - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:24:16 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Keys/Norah sjc, long Lama, thanks ever so much for your kind words. Glad I could groove you with mine. - -Fred "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" wrote: >Fred, >I'm away for the weekend so I won't be able to post >this till Sunday night. Great post. I love the way you wrote this. The >word choice. The phrasing. > >I had no idea that there was a word for the vocal >gymnastics made popular of late. > >"melisma" > >I looked it up at www.webster.com and found: >> >1 : a group of notes or tones sung on one syllable in >plainsong >2 : melodic embellishment >> > >Thanks for teaching me a new word about music. I read >this paragraph several times, then read it aloud for >my friend. This post made my day and made me glad to >still have a toe in this community. > >"faux soul caricature": wonderful phrase, Fred. > >All the best, > >Lama > >p.s. Obligitory Joni content: > >Example of "melisma" by a master > >[I took my share down by the sea > Paper plates and Javex bottles on the tide > Seagulls come down and they squawk at me > Down where the water skiers > gli-i-i-i-i-i-de] > >"Banquet" by Joni Mitchell > > >Fred Simon said, >>>I may be in the minority, but I don't really think >Keys is all that, plus >she's got melisma flatulence like crazy, just like >almost every other >latter-day nu-soul/R&B singer. Enough already. Listen >to Mahalia Jackson, or >Stevie Wonder, or Aretha, if you wanna hear some >tasteful, proportioned >melisma. I mean, it was bad enough when Mariah Carey >came on the scene, but >now every little Britney and Christina is obliged to >stretch every syllable >into a hundred notes of faux soul caricature.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:31:58 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni Kerry wrote (or rather Kerry wrote, that Ani wrote...): > You know it's funny, I spent last August with Mr. Bob Dylan. I was > touring/opening shows for him and ever since then...all the interviewers > keep asking me..'What was it like touring with God?' and 'What words of > wisdom did he bestow upon you?'...There's this kind of religion of hyperbole > that surrounds Bob and 'long live the church of Bob.' You know, I would > never attempt heresy in that area, especially not in my line of work, but > it's funny because Bob was never really a deity for me, not anywhere near > the scope of which Joni Mitchell was and I think that respecting his > work...is a good idea...he's done quite a few cool things...but it seems > that in the states, the canon of Bob seems to become deeper and richer and > more ingrained in my culture every day and Joni seems to be systematically > forgotten and periodically condescended to by the media....It's really > strange to me, not as strange as I wish it was to me. It's actually quite > familiar. First I have to thank Kerry for introducing me to Ani's music - very powerful stuff, and I can't wait to hear more! I have to agree with Ani on this one, but I think a lot of the difference in perception between Joni and Bob is simple timing. I've always thought of Bob as pretty much the vanguard of the whole folk-rock movement - that crossover that folk music made into the "mainstream". Which was important in itself, but probably accounts for a lot of the reverence he's given. I'm not saying he shouldn't get it - his lyrics are powerful, and he was one of the first to say something other than "I love you" in a "popular" song! Joni came along much later, when the "movement" (for want of a better word) was well under way. He is also a lot less vocal in the media than Joni (as far as I know, at least) and that may work against her. Like Joni says "An angry man is just an angry man, but an angry woman..... bitch!" An unfortunate perception, but a true one in many cases, none the less. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:55:37 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham/Joni (long) <> Kakki, thanks for the detail regarding Davy Graham. It's a crying shame that he didn't get the exposure he deserves. I can attest to the rarity of this one! It showed up on E-Bay once, with an OPENING bid of $40! I found mine on a guy's website, and lucky for all of us it was in really fine shape. It's hard to put into words just how original Graham's BSN is... Bob NP: John Hiatt, "Good As She Could Be" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:57:35 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Ladies, NJC Subject: the difference between a lady and a diplomat (very old joke). When a lady says no, she means maybe When a lady says maybe, she means yes If she says yes, then she's no lady When a diplomat says yes, he means maybe When a diplomat says maybe, he means no If a diplomat says no, then he's no diplomat. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:02:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni <> Well Hell, the good news is that you can't go wrong with Ani! A while back I asked for recommendations from folks about which Ani to get, and got a bunch, all of which are great. I now own all her cd's, (except for the Utah Philips duos,) except for "Not So Soft", and I'll get that soon enough. And while she's great on record, she really smokes live. I was excited to see that she's coming to Greenville! I was bummed when I saw that it's the same weekend I'll be hanging with JMDLer's in NYC! :~( And the best thing is that she doesn't have to depend on a record label to decide when IT wants to release new work, she can do it whenever she damn well pleases. Bob NP: John Hiatt, "Native Son" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:16:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Step right up - getcher copy of #27 In typical style, I'm giving away a copy of Covers Volume 27 to whoever can come the closest to the Joni song I'm thinking of. Name the song & the album, please. I'll take guesses until midnight Friday, and then I'll declare a winner (or winners in the event of a tie) on Saturday morning. ***Lurkers & newbies, I throw down the gauntlet & challenge you to guess - be a playa!*** Meanwhile, if you want to get a copy regardless, let me know and we'll get it squared away. And a thanks to all of you out there who continue to make this an enjoyable project for us. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:25:11 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob vs. Joni kerry wrote: > I just came across a recording of a concert that Ani Difranco did in > Australia at the Port Fairy Folk Festival in 1998. She said some > interesting things about Joni between songs: > > Ani was having trouble re-tuning her guitar and said, > "These alternative tunings always seem like a real good idea when I'm at > home and they're written out in front of me. I once saw Joni Mitchell play > a show and she was just standing there for like ten minutes going, 'ah..., > ah...' trying to re-tune her guitar to some ridiculous tuning. I felt that > it affirmed my whole life..... I have this recording and all I could do when I heard it was to be more impressed with my home town girl Ani. She is the real deal. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:35:38 -0600 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: funny Dylan SJC hi mark e. in seattle! and everyone. mark, i'm so glad you are enjoying the dylan CDs you bought! i think "blonde" is the masterpiece -- my absolute favorite -- and dylan has a quote where he describes the sound of that album as "a thin, wild mercury sound" which i think is beautiful and apt. i think that "blood on the tracks" has always been a bit easier to listen to, though, because it has the gorgeous melodic songs -- but "blonde" is challenging and more fascinating ultimately, in my opinion. dylan is funny! i agree, his reputation might not put that out first, but with time i've grown to love his slightly twisted, slightly harsh, wry and winsome worldview. the quotes that someone added recently to a post demonstrated that. i'm trying to think of another example but now i can't! i have a writer friend who is to dylan what i am to joni (in love for life!) and through his knowledge and guidance i have found so much richness and reward listening to dylan. it's funny coming to him as a joni "person" b/c you really have that "joni's the best" attitude that ani difranco was expressing in a recent quote here (opposite to what most of the public thinks!) so bob really had to do some work to impress me...it took some time but i'm so glad i stayed with it...what a joy (frustrating though, and confusing often) his music can be. anyway, i thought i had specific a point here, but possibly not -- just wanted to say i'm glad you are enjoying his work! love to hear more about your discoveries. - -- emily ps: my friend told me that "another side of bob dylan" was recorded in one night, which i find amazing every time i listen to that record. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:17:20 EST From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Judy Collins & Dylan vljc Mark, I'd second the vote for "Hard Times For Lovers". Great album! Sondheim's "I Remember Sky" and several other cuts ("Dorothy", "Marie", and "Starmaker") are pure heaven. I'd also suggest two of Judy's early 80's albums, "Times Of Our Lives" and Running For My Life". TOOLives has a shimmering pop feel to it, with a couple of my Judy faves "Mama, Mama", and "Drink A Round To Ireland". RFMLife is in the same vein. I agree with Mack that some of Judy's early stuff is too folkie for me...I tend to go for her later stuff. "Shameless" was mentioned here, too. Great book and album. Enjoy! Reuben writes: My favorite is "Hard Times for Lovers" which someone here > has mentioned previously was a bomb, according to the critics. It is > marvelous and I long ago wore it out but continue to turn it around the > player. Very romantic ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:36:55 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: NJC October Project Victor wrote: >October Project put out a self titled debut album in the mid-late >90's. The cover had a little kid trickortreating with a mask(bag) >over his head. They had a nice sound with really beautiful >vocals, lush arrangements, short melodic love songs...they did >tend to sound alot alike but they were good songs, I liked the >general sound they were getting and it was definately an >impressive debut even if it sounded somewhat crafted. > >I suppose though, ultimately they weren't able to really go >anywhere with it as their second album was much worse, >sounding like a rehashed version of the prior one. Reminds me of The Boomers, a Canadian group who put out a couple of albums. They were hot enough through Sacramento airplay to do a free concert and get local stores to carry the imports. By the time WEA issued American versions, the bubble had burst, the second album was the same as the first album, and that was that. One Hit Wonders. It's a shame. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:15 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Grammy Grumblings . . . FTC/DOJ (NJC) On 3 Mar 2002 at 21:49, Kakki wrote: > However, (although you probably don't hear about it in the mainstream > media), the FTC constantly, and for years, has had antitrust-related > actions going against the major record companies for various alleged > anti-competitive activity so the responsible government agency has > seemed to be vigilant about keeping an eye on them. You can see a > number of such cases by going to the FTC website search engine and > typing in the names of any of the record companies. > One of those cases you'll find concerns MAP (minimum advertised price) which was, ironically, the labels acting in the response to complaints by independent retailers. The indies came up with the idea as a way to counter the deep discounting of music by chains like Best Buy and Walmart who use music as a loss leader. The case received quite a bit of mainstream press and was settled by the majors. Last summer DOJ launched an investigation of potential collusion and unfair licensing practices by MusicNet and Pressplay (the major digital music distribution initiatives). They've also taken on the majors with respect to unfair music video licensing practices. Kakki, do you (or does anyone else - Sharon?) know what distinguishes a case instigated by DOJ compared to one initiated by the FTC? Is a matter of criminality vs compliance? Brenda n.p. Branford Marsalis - Rachmaninoff's Vocalise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:59:34 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC Randy wrote: >The Pretenders (same) Oh yeah, baby! >Dire Straits (same) Oh, sock it to me! >Creedence Clearwater Revival (same) Oh, yes, more! >Country Joe & The Fish-Electric Music For the Body & Mind Oh, I can't stand it! >Mahavishnu Orchestra-The Inner Mounting Flame Hot, hot hot! How could I have forgotten all those? More: The B-52's The Band, Music from Big Pink The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band, Gorilla The Cars Commander Cody, Lost in the Ozone David Crosby, If I Could Only Remember My Name Introducing the Hard Line According to Terence Trent D'Arby Devo, Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! Bruce Hornsby, The Way It Is Joe Jackson, Look Sharp! Get the Knack Julian Lennon, Valotte Steve Miller Band, Children of the Future Harry Nilsson, Pandemonium Shadow Show Nine Inch Nails, Pretty Hate Machine Robert Palmer, Sneakin' Sally Through the Alley The Roches Spirit James Taylor Traffic, Mr. Fantasy Wall of Voodoo, The Index Masters to name a few Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:16:06 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Nathan La Franeer SCJoniGuy wrote: >Perhaps you can give us some more info, nlafraneer. Is that your real name? >Are you the famous taxi driver that Joni wrote about? ;~) At the 1969 Troubadour concert (or maybe it was elsewhere, on tv? I remember hearing Joni discuss it), Joni said the taxi driver's name was Nathan La Franier, but she changed it for the song. So my guess is that nlafraneer is not. ;-) Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:29:55 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Am I still here? plus some answers re ladies and BAFTAs (NJC) First part of this message is really for Les: am I still on the digest list? Since last Thursday, I have not received any messages at all. I did find them of course on the digest site, but I just wonder if anything's changed to my set-up. (If you remember, my IT dept. blocks out messages with "profane" words so half the time I need to go to the archives anyway, but then I used to get a system message telling me a message had been blocked - now I'm getting nothing! I've checked with the Helpdesk and they say they have not changed anything from their side. Please Les, I need to know I haven't been booted out!) Then (assuming I still "exist" on this list!) some replies to issues raised by Colin. Yes, I must admit, I have always had a dislike for the term "lady". Not because anybody told me it was not PC, but I just felt that I did not need anyone to embellish the term "woman" for me. I'm happy to be a woman, that's good enough. I don't need a title, that's condescending. Maybe you understand the feeling if you imagine someone calling you a "lord". But having said that, I've mellowed a lot. I would not hold it against most people, because I know they mean well. I just keep correcting my own kids, e.g. when they tell me something that has happened and they say "and then there was a lady...", I will jokingly reply "oh she was titled, was she?" and point out that it's fine to say "there was a woman...". So I would say: it's OK to say "lady" if it's the female equivalent of "gentleman" (as in the address "ladies and gentlemen") but not if it's used in a sentence where you could replace it with "woman" without it sounding strange, i.e. where you would simply say "man" if you were referring to a male equivalent. And a quick aside re titles: I think it's sad, this British habit of giving people titles. Judy Dench is a great actress indeed, but why do we need to call her a dame? And why on earth have people like Paul McCartney accepted the title "sir"? I'm really disappointed. And then I'd just like to add something to the other point you raised, Colin, about people discussing the Oscars more than the BAFTAs etc. (Yes, a rather old topic by now, but I'm catching up with digests!) Although I live in the UK, I must agree with Victor. If most of the active contributors to this list are from the US, then it's normal that they won't mention the BAFTAs to a large degree. That's just life. As they said: the list is only the sum of its members, and if more UK listers want to write about the BAFTAs then they should do so. I also agree with Mack that it's all pretty irrelevant, just another show biz glitter event... But I think it's a bit "rich" to call US citizens isolated, Colin, if you don't realise that people in the UK are just as isolated! When was the last time we discussed the Cannes or Berlin film prizes? As a Belgian living in England, I don't even know who the Belgian prime minister is any more, because I live on a diet of BBC (radio 4) info and their focus is very very Anglo-Saxon! When I lived in Belgium, equal importance was given in the news to say the Danish elections as to the US elections. The same with music. We did not need to invent the term World Music in the 90s, because also in the 60s and 70s I was used to hearing music from Brazil, Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Mozambique, etc... in the same type of programmes that would play English folk or Louisiana swamp music or good old blues... Anyway, the people on this list are great, they have a mind that's wide open, an interest in just about anything and a generosity of heart, so I don't want to accuse then of being "centric" in any way. The media are at fault, let's not blame each other! (Victor, yes I'm one of the people who berated some of the US reactions after the September 11 attacks, exactly because I wanted to point out that we in Europe and certainly in London were one with people in the US in our shock and horror and vulnerability, I don't think that argument is contradictory with the point I'm making above.) OK, that's my bit, probably for another long while. If only time did not prevent, I'd be writing a lot more, my fingers itch every day when I read so many intelligent, wonderful contributions. Thanks JMDL for existing - I just hope I still exist in it! Lieve. ********************************************************************** EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This message has been Virus scanned ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:22:10 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Long Live Rock...I mean Dr.Suess(njc) Victor wrote: > Last night I went to the 6th Annual Dr.Suess Birthday Bash. > >I went as a Who or rather as the Who. > >I played several other hits, including... >Behind Green Eyes (No >one knows what it's like to be the bad Grinch, to be the sad Grinch, >behind green eyes) LOL! Long Live Victor! Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:35:40 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Judy Collins & Dylan njc Mark E in Seattle wrote: >Recently I've been listening to 'Colors of the Day' and 'Forever' by Judy >Collins. ... > >So I'd like some suggestions as to which of her albums that are not >'greatest hits' or retrospectives I should get next. I put a bunch of them >on my wish list at CDNow (although I'm a little miffed at them at the >moment) and any suggestions from the group would be welcome. I remember Wildflowers and In My Life with some fondness. >As to Dylan, I've listened to the three cds I bought a couple of times (well >two of them anyway) and I have to say I am really liking 'Blonde on Blonde' >and 'Blood on the Tracks'. But not "Time Out of Mind"? Tut tut. >The song 'If You See Her, Say Hello' really gets >to me. But I'm wondering if part of the key to appreciating Dylan is >getting the humor in a lot of his songs. Do people maybe tend to take him >too seriously? A lot of his music seems to be on the playful side to me. >Usually it has a bite to it but there's a lot of humor there. At least >that's my overall impression. That may change as I become more familiar >with these cds. There's a lot of humor there. Some of it is sarcasm, some of it is irony, some of it is not even discernable until you see him in concert. Even his most serious work, such as Slow Train Coming, the first gospel album, in Gotta Serve Somebody includes the "You can call me Bobby, you can call me Zimmy" exchange, which no one who remembers "but you doesn't have to call me Johnson" can hear with a straight face. Keep listening to His Bobness. We'll get you converted yet. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:40:36 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Dylan njc Mark E in Seattle wrote: >'Leopard Skin Pillbox Hat' from 'Blonde on Blonde' seems playful >(and biting) to me. Just the title alone tickles me. Of course I haven't >delved too much into the lyrics yet. Well, you look so pretty in it Honey, can I jump on it sometime? Yes, I just wanna see If it's really that expensive kind You know it balances on your head Just like a mattress balances On a bottle of wine Your brand new leopard-skin pill-box hat Yeah, it's funny haha. NB: Not all Dylan is funny. If you want a shortcut to delving into the lyrics, they're all posted on dylan's official website. Gil NP Bob Dylan, Political World, from Ring Them Bells (the Oh Mercy outtakes) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:47:56 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Ani Difranco discusses Bob NJC Kerry wrote: >I just came across a recording of a concert that Ani Difranco did in >Australia at the Port Fairy Folk Festival in 1998. She said some >interesting things about Joni between songs: > >You know it's funny, I spent last August with Mr. Bob Dylan. I was >touring/opening shows for him and ever since then...all the interviewers >keep asking me..'What was it like touring with God?' and 'What words of >wisdom did he bestow upon you?'...There's this kind of religion of hyperbole >that surrounds Bob and 'long live the church of Bob.' You know, I would >never attempt heresy in that area, especially not in my line of work, but >it's funny because Bob was never really a deity for me ... Reminds me of the footage from Imagine, where the drug-crazed fan breaks into Lennon's house because he wants The Answer, and Lennon tries oh-so-patiently to explain that he's Just a Guy, y'know. Bob Dylan is Just a Guy, in that sense. He's no more God than you or I, he just happens to be another genius who has written songs that are, by themselves or with the insight we bring to them, a number of astonishing songs. He helped define a generation and his influence is everywhere. But he's not God. From what I've read, and heard from friends who've chatted with Dylan, he likes nothing better than to talk about the family, about homey things, and to get away from the "Bob Dylan" thing ... unless it's within the context of an interview, of course. Just my .02. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:54:32 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: dreamland.../ NJC Bob wrote: ><< Do you know happen to know what McGuinn album this is on Warren? >> > >It's on his LP "Cardiff Rose". I like McGuinn on a song like "Chestnut Mare", >but he can't get the rhythm or the melodic line of Dreamland and it's pretty >horrible. This is the same LP that has McGuinn's lackluster (in comparison to the original) cover of Dylan's "Up to Me." Is "Chestnut Mare" on "Cardiff Rose" or are we conflating the Byrds' "Untitled"? Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:05:26 -0600 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: dreamland.../ NJC I like Stacey Kent's Dreamsville. It is a wonderful CD...with great tenor sax. Bee girl Gil Lamont wrote: > > Bob wrote: > > ><< Do you know happen to know what McGuinn album this is on Warren? >> > > > >It's on his LP "Cardiff Rose". I like McGuinn on a song like "Chestnut Mare", > >but he can't get the rhythm or the melodic line of Dreamland and it's pretty > >horrible. > > This is the same LP that has McGuinn's lackluster (in comparison to the > original) cover of Dylan's "Up to Me." > > Is "Chestnut Mare" on "Cardiff Rose" or are we conflating the Byrds' > "Untitled"? > > Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:58:06 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: NJC In The Bedroom Billy wrote: >I saw "In The Bedroom" a few weeks ago and was a tad disappointed. >It was excellent, but I guess I expected more after all the hype. >I love Sissy Spacek, but I'm with Joseph on this one. I thought Tom Wilkinson >stole the show. Admirers of Mr Wilkinson should check out The Governess, where one can see him full monty (and in better shape than one would expect from the latter). Gil NP ironically enough, "Dignity", Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:00:09 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: NJC Debut albums Billy wrote: >Has anyone mentioned "The Kick Inside" by Kate Bush? >Artistically (and not technically), I don't think she's ever topped it. >"Wuthering Heights," "The Saxophone Song," and "The Man With The Child In His >Eyes" are all timeless and oh so original. I considered it, but prefer the first of her albums I bought: "Hounds of Love" is stellar work, a benchmark never duplicated. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:57:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: dreamland.../ NJC <> No, it's not...I didn't mean to imply that it was, I was just talking about McGuinn's vocal quality, which I like better on the Byrds tune than on Joni's song. Wonder why he chose that one anyway? Maybe he figured if he did any of her other songs, he'd be compared unfavorably to her. But with Dreamland there was nothing to compare to! Bob NP: Joe Henry, "Skin & Teeth" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:04:44 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham NJC Kakki wrote: >"Unknown Legends of Rock and Roll - >Psychedelic Unknowns, Mad Geniuses, Punk Pioneers, Lo-Fi Mavericks and More" > >"You could not, by most stretches of the imagination, call Davey Graham a >rock guitarist. But the fact is, you couldn't really call him a blues, >folk or jazz guitarist, either. He's all of those things and none of those >things. What Graham did in the 60s was bring an unsurpassed eclecticism to >the craft of guitar virtuosity. He both anticipated and influenced the >British psychedelic rock, blues-rock, and folk-rock scenes to an extent that >is woefully underappreciated to this day.... Like [John] Fahey and [Sandy] >Bull, Graham was one of the first Western guitarists of any sort to >incorporate middle eastern modes and Indian ragas into his music. Unlike >Fahey and Bull, however, Graham is mostly unknown in the U.S., even on a >cult level, as most of his records were never released stateside....Paul >Simon, who met Graham in the mid-60s during a residency in England,even >asked Davey to join him as an accompanist at one point. And copped his "Angie" for an early Simon & Garfunkel album. >When you hear Jimmy >Page play intricate acoustic guitar leads in Led Zeppelin's quieter moments, >or Richard Thompson genre-hopping between folk, blues and more, you're also >hearing Graham's legacy, British songwriter Pete Brown, who co-wrote >several Cream classics with Jack Bruce, calls Graham 'one of the first world >musicians.' and sees him in the start of 'a whole kind of genre of people,' >extending through Renbourn, Jansch, and Thompson in particular..... And John Renbourn or Bert Jansch covered "Angie" or "Anji" as well, and demonstrated a technique surpassing Paul Simon's. Odd that "Angie" wasn't mentioned in the passage you quoted. And while we're on the subject of Pentangle, their debut album was no slouch, either. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:28 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Grammy Screamers Funny post! The other night Jay Leno had to tell the screamers to hush- everytime he mentioned the name of Ono, the skater, who was going to be a guest...the screamers went berzerk. But these screamers have been around a long time- going backwards in time: Beatles, Elvis, Frank Sinatra... >>>Here's one of my weird, curmugeonly little fascinations: Who are those people in the audience at award shows who are always screaming? It's a trend that seemed to start in the 1980s, when high-tech glitz started taking over these sorts of televised entertainments. <<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:29 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: a young-whippersnapper's take on the Grammy's it came out great Erica! your observations are right on in my opinionated opinion! loved your dylan impression too! >>Ok, I hope this all comes out right....>>> ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: march 3!!!! njc Cool, another Pisces!!! Happy Birthday to MR MANDOLIN! Hope you had a wonderful day! >>H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y STEVE MIXON!!!!!!!!<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:07:32 -0600 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: march 3!!!! njc Happy Happy Burfday Steve....what is this...25? :) Love and peace....bee girl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:40:09 EST From: WARREN901@aol.com Subject: " sweet " judy blue eyes... mark, i wanted to chime in with my favorite judy LP . i have many and several of my favoirites have already been mentioned. ( i've been listening to judy almost as long as i've been listening to our joan; about thirty years . ) i think my " all-time favorite " is one called " judith. " here's a playlist: the moon is a harsh mistress angel spread your wings houses ( one of my favorite judy compositions ! ) the lovinn' of the game song for duke send in the clowns ( overplayed but still a gem...) salt of the earth brother, can you spare a dime city of new orleans i'll be seeing you pirate ships ( an exquisite wendy waldman piece. ) born to the breed ( another of my favorite judy compositions...there are many ! ) i have seen judy in concert four times and they have always been is small venues. ( i only wish i could see joni in a small venue, not to mention in my hometown ! ) she always give a wonderful performance. well there you have my two cents worth, i hope it has been of help. happy listening... lots of joni ( judy too !!! ) warren keith p.s. in an earlier post on the confusion with the three " J's " someone said judy, like joni, also had long blonde hair. i recall judy being a brunette ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:37:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Chitlins & The Glossary In our JMDL Glossary, it has a reference for "Chitlins", a term that as a South Carolinian I'm very familiar with. BUT I don't think this is the correct interpretation for what Joni is saying in "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" (the song that uses the phrase). The context is: When the bandstands had a thousand ways Of refusing a black man admission Black musician In those days they put him in an Underdog position They put him in Cellars and chitlins' Now I think what she's saying is that black musicians could not play or attend shows in the established (white) clubs, but rather had to depend on what was called the "chitlin' circuit", venues/homes whatever that featured black musicians & audiences. I'm sure that the name "chitlin circuit" was given as that was what the performers were fed, but I don't think the definition in the glossary is totally correct in terms of what Joni was writing about. Bob NP: Lauryn Hill, "Everything Is Everything" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:18:09 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Chitlins & The Glossary In a message dated 3/4/2002 3:38:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > I'm sure that the name "chitlin circuit" was given as that was what the > performers were fed, but I don't think the definition in the glossary is > totally correct in terms of what Joni was writing about. > I think your right on Bob. I just looked in the JMDL glossary, and while it's nice to know what "chitlins" are, I think Joni *was* referring to "chitlin circuit" when she wrote "cellars and chitlins". The chitlin circuits were venues that not only sold chitlins, but other kinds of soul food dishes. These venues were the only places black musicians could perform in the 50's and 60's. I read Jimi Hendrix played some of the Chitlin Circuit! Maybe we should amend the JMDL glossary. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:41:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chitlins & The Glossary <> Among many others...here's a pic and the story of Jimi & the Chitlin' Circuit: http://www.soul-patrol.com/funk/jh_chitlin.htm Bob NP: Michael Hill's Blues Mob, "Wrong Number" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:29:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Grammy Grumblings . . . FTC/DOJ (NJC) Brenda asked: > Kakki, do you (or does anyone else - Sharon?) know what distinguishes a case > instigated by DOJ compared to one initiated by the FTC? Is a matter of criminality vs > compliance? As a simplistic explanation, I think the FTC is often the first line of defense for investigation and prosecution of alleged noncompliance. They try to resolve the more "run of the mill" issues through litigation, injunctions, etc. The DOJ takes on the more severe cases and/or ones that cannot be resolved or handled (for various reasons) at the FTC level. The FTC, for example, might initally pursue a case where the law applicable to a particular issue is not yet clear or established and hash it out from there. The DOJ concentrates more on, or would become involved in the serious, big-scale cases, such as those massive criminal conspiracy, fraud, RICO, etc. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:35 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: " sweet " judy blue eyes... "p.s. in an earlier post on the confusion with the three " J's " someone said judy, like joni, also had long blonde hair. i recall judy being a brunette !" I thought the same thing - "chestnut brown canary" wasn't it? Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:34:54 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Grammy Grumblings . . . FTC/DOJ (NJC) Oops, sorry for all my typos lately - I'm partially brain dead from working every day since Feb. 1st! I should have written: > The DOJ concentrates more on, or would become involved in, the serious, > big-scale cases, such as those alleging massive criminal conspiracy, fraud, RICO, > etc. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:38:05 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham NJC Gil wrote: > And copped his "Angie" for an early Simon & Garfunkel album. > And John Renbourn or Bert Jansch covered "Angie" or "Anji" as well, and > demonstrated a technique surpassing Paul Simon's. Odd that "Angie" wasn't > mentioned in the passage you quoted. Wow, thanks for the info. The live Simon & Garfunkel '68 Hollywood Bowl concert recording that I adore includes "Anji" and I wondered where it came from! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:39:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Re: March Madness!! Covers #27 - Davey Graham/Joni (long) Bob wrote: > It's hard to put into words just how original Graham's BSN is... Very true - it is really astoundingly original and still ahead of its time despite being recorded in 1968! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:47:48 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: dreamland.../ NJC In a message dated 3/4/02 1:58:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Wonder why he chose that one anyway? Maybe he figured if he did any of her > other songs, he'd be compared unfavorably to her. But with Dreamland there > was nothing to compare to! > > Hi Bob! Maybe not, but it didn't sound too bad, maybe it was just the stereo system I was listening to it on. Richard has some setup LOL! Would like to hear the song again in it's entirety. rose ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:54:56 -0800 From: The New Guy Subject: Bounced emails Hello everyone. I don't know if the list-admin keeps track but my email was down for 3 days and with the load here, there must have been a lot of bounced emails. It's working again and emails are getting through so all's well, I guess. Warmest regards, Nick Trade Stuff: http://boootlegs.com/ Text Only Pages: http://boootlegs.com/bootxt01.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:52:55 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: march 3!!!! njc In a message dated 3/4/02 2:19:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > Cool, another Pisces!!! Happy Birthday to MR MANDOLIN! Hope you had a > wonderful day! > > >>H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > STEVE MIXON!!!!!!!!<<< > A BIG MEE TOO from Noo Joisey Best Wishes Steve, hope it was magically musical Hi Leslie! fondly, rose ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:03:58 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Joni PWWAM on Trio FRI Joni's concert "Painting With Words and Music" will air on the Trio network this Friday, March 8 at 9AM and 3PM EST. Recommended, and some of our very own jmdl'ers were there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:10:00 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Just In-From The Producers Desk, njc Michael, When I read your post, I got the heebie-jeebies, so I'm writing this from the palm-reader's waiting room. Can it be that the JoniFest New Orleans 2000 tracks will soon be in my home? Oh, I'm getting the heebie-jeebies again. Better rest for now and conclude this post later...... **** The palmist told me that it's time to sound the drum. She said I have a message to share so I guess I can't claim that 18 bucks went up in smoke. To those who weren't among us in New Orleans in 2001, I will say, your life's been wasted. Your only chance to redeem your soul is to buy the life-giving CDs to benefit the Ruth Paz Foundation. Michael's mother began the Foundation to help profoundly needy Honduran children, (like burn vicitims for example) get to life-saving aid in the USA. I can only imagine that she saw our riches and their sorrow side-by-side and felt compelled to bring the two together. Now Michael's taken up the mantle and we can help the Good Works along, getting some wonderful music in return for helping out. (Karma?) Anyway, I'm very, mucho, mucho elated that this wonderful project is close to generating donations for the Foundation, furthering the careers of our JMDLers, and most selfishly, putting these fan-tas-tic performances in my living room. This is a win-win-win situation. Don't miss out. Great news! Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11:16 -0000 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: Thanks from a lurker !! I would just like to thank all contributers to this list for keeping this lurker, and rare contributer, well and truly amused! Thanks, yours in Joni, Paul Headon. Wales - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.330 / Virus Database: 184 - Release Date: 28/02/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:14:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: melisma, music theory stuff njc first of all, fred: i think ''melisma flatulence'' is the phrase of the century. consider it stolen and adopted from now on. [incidentally, who started the unbearable craze for this nasal, unbearable kind of melisma? my guess is whitney houston when she raped our ears and our brains with her version of ''i will always love you''.] as to melisma, it is of course quite enjoyable when it comes to gregorian chant. in gregorian chant melismata [the plural of melisma] were more common in the alleluia section in sung masses. gregorian chant was modal, so the notes for the melismata were chosen from one of the 8 accepted church modes [scales using only the white keys of modern keyboards]. then one syllable was sung traveling along the preset scale [the melisma]. some melismata were preserved and carried from place to place and new syllables were set to them. the other two ways in which words were set to music in gregorian chant times were syllabic [one syllable per note] and neumatic [a couple of notes per syllable]. when you listen to gregorian chant, you notice that the melisma is never a frantic, wobbly race through an unnerving set of 16th notes but a restful glide that seems to emphasize balance and contemplation. by the way, the only scale that contemporary melisma exploiters seem to command is the pentatonic. if i were to make such an issue of melisma, i would at least learn other modes and REALLY show off. wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:15:48 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Today's Articles: February 28 (Court & Spark) Jerry, What alarms me is that the years are getting shorter, not longer, so in what *kind* of blink of an eye will we all be looking back over 2002 - 2030 ????? As in "1974 was 56 years ago?? How can it be? Where has it gone? Is that all there is?" Frightening may be a good word to use. Anyway, "blonde in the bleachers" asked, >>Also did Bob Dylan look like a stuffed wax dummy with a lot of bad make-up on or is it just my imagination?>> Lama Jerry said, >>It is a great read, Bob. But all I could say was My God, was it really 28 years ago? And then wonder about all those people I was close with then. We must have put this record on every night for a year when we got together. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:44:06 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: melisma, music theory stuff njc In a message dated 3/4/02 7:13:26 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: >i think ''melisma flatulence'' is the phrase of the century. consider it >stolen and adopted from now on. Thanks. Fine with me, although I don't want to be accused of "he who smelt it, dealt it." - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:51:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Judy Collins & Dylan njc > But not "Time Out of Mind"? Tut tut. The other two have caught my ear at the moment. I don't dislike 'Time Out of Mind' but I think I have to be in the right frame of mind for it. Ok, now that you've given me some excellent input on where to go with Judy (I found 'Wildflowers' and 'Recollections' yesterday at Circuit City and bought them both), can I maybe get some suggestions about which Dylan to buy next? I'm thinking 'Highway 61 Revisited'. What else? Suggestions please? Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:30:50 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Ally McBeal (njc) I'm sitting here watching Ally McBeal and there's the new character, Victor, played by Jon BonJovi who so far seems like a pretty good actor. But I'm not used to hearing my name spoken so much so everytime Ally speaks to him it feels like she's talking to me. Victor --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com"Roses wait for the springtime,They sleep beneath the ground.They hear March winds a callin'For the spring to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #102 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?