From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #99 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 2 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 099 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: NJC National Pig Day! ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Joni question on The Weakest Link NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: bafta's and oscars njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: NJC National Pig Day! ["Dolphie Bush" ] Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays [Gil Lamont ] Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Dog Eat Dog [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Debut albums NJC October Project [Gil Lamont ] Re: Best of '69 (NJC) ["Dolphie Bush" ] ladies NJC [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: NJC So glad Joni wasn't there... [anne@sandstrom.com] NJC Grammy questions [Vince Lavieri ] Re: NJC In The Bedroom ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Grammy Grumblings, continued (VLJC) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Norah Jones sjc ["Brenda" ] Re: NJC Re: Grammy broadcast & observations(ljc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: bafta's and oscars njc [anne@sandstrom.com] Fwd: Funny Statistics (njc) [jan gyn ] Re: Debut albums NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC Ladies [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC Grammy questions [Randy Remote ] Rusty Chariots in "I had a King" ["brian symes" ] Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project [] Re: NJC Ladies [colin ] Re: Debut albums NJC [jan gyn ] Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project [] Re: special days! njc [colin ] Re: bafta's and oscars njc [colin ] Re: ladies NJC [colin ] Re: Christian labels NJC [Randy Remote ] Joni poem and grammys ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Debut albums NJC October Project [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Christian labels NJC [CoyoteRick@aol.com] Joni at dinner [Deb Messling ] Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project [] Re: Debut albums NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: bafta's njc ["Jerome ." ] Re: Debut albums NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] March Madness - Covers # 27 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #96 - More Grammy Whammies [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Debut albums NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:52:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays <> Respectable, but they never grew at all from their debut, nor were they able to come up with songs as strong as "Here's Where The Story Ends" or "You're Not The Only One I Know", both of which are as perfect as pop can be. I hope their next release proves me wrong, because you gotta root for a rocker named Harriet! :~) Bob NP: John Hiatt, "Drive South" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:7:56 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: NJC National Pig Day! > I thought I'd heard everything, but on the radio this morning they announced > that it was National Pig Day. I checked it out, and sure enough March 1st is > Pig day. > Happy Pig Day!!!( or [s'vine] German, cochon-French, puerco(Spanish)!!! You could read "Charlotte's Web" listen to Pink Floyd "Animals" and go out for barbecued pork for dinner... I thought I'd heard everything too but the other day on the radio I heard that somewhere in the US(I didn't catch where and I'm not sure I want to know) people have cricket spitting contests, where they take a live cricket, curl it up, and see how far they can spit it. Then again, not much surprises me these days anymore... Victor NP: India Arie- Strength, Courage, and Wisdom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:20:26 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Joni question on The Weakest Link NJC Coyote Rick wrote: >I agree Marian, it was too easy! It makes me crazy that JM's career is a >focus of trivia games (noting recent questions on Jeoprady, Weakest Link, and >Millionaire), as if she were ancient history. Then, the contestants usually >get the answers wrong.. as I scream the answer at the TV, like a crazy >man...! Thank God we are among the enlightened! I *love* that Game Show Network commercial where a variety of people in various settings are saying/shouting/screaming "marsupial" at the camera, which then cuts to a gameshow contestant who says, "Rodent?" And the tagline: "You know you know." I like to think that I could go on Jeopardy and walk off with thousands, but with my luck, if I weren't defeated by a recalcitrant button, under them studio lights and in front of the camera I'd probably freeze up and demonstrate all the book-l'arnin' of a hillbilly. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:18:53 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Just in- New job offer!(njc) Just got offered a job in Asheville, NC with Haw Creek Forge. I'd be handling the shipping, receiving, inventory, etc...working with people who seem pretty down to earth, artist mindset type. She makes yard art out of metal and iron..animals, insects. This coming weeks she'll be at the Art festival in Philadelphia. Our own Jody has one of her pieces in her living room, a dragonfly. By the way, has anyone seen Dragonfly and if so what's your review of it? I was interested in seeing it. I haven't made a decision yet but plan to over the weekend. I'd start in a couple of weeks. As I don't have many other leads I'm leaning heavily on taking it. It would be quite a change but maybe a change is just what I need. Asheville is so gorgeous and I've been in too many jobs with corporate minded driven people who have no appreciation or respect for artists so this seems like an excellent opportunity. VictorNP: India Arie- "Ready for Love" --- Victor Johnson--- waytoblu@mindspring.com--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:21:32 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: bafta's and oscars njc Well I, for one, don't care about either. Publicity machines decide who wins anyway, have little to do with talent or effort or the end result. At least in regards to the oscars, don't have any firsthand knowledge of the british awards but cannot imagine it could be much different since all awards shows are so subjective anyway. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:22:22 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: NJC National Pig Day! And happy national pig day back to you Jimmy. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:27:40 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays Bob wrote: ><give the band credit for coming back together after the raise-the-kid hiatus.>> > >Respectable, but they never grew at all from their debut, nor were they >able to come up with songs as strong as "Here's Where The Story Ends" or >"You're Not The Only One I Know", both of which are as perfect as pop can >be. I hope their next release proves me wrong, because you gotta root for >a rocker named Harriet! :~) Oh, Bob, why must you be so right all the time?!?! Yes, I have all the Sundays I can find, B sides and so forth, but the only way I could get myself to listen to anything past the first album was to burn the oeuvre to a coupla CDs, which made me appreciate the later works more ... but you're right, that first album is unbeatable. Great tunes, downer lyrics that are practically unintelligible with the words in front of you (like *that* matters), and Harriet's amazing voice. I thought they went off in different directions with both successive albums, but the growth curve is a shallow grade at best. I hope their next release proves us both wrong, too. And that's another category: artists who never grew from the first album. Makes the transient fans happy, I suppose. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:26:52 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC The Sundays > And that's another category: artists who never grew from the first album. > Makes the transient fans happy, I suppose. > > Gil That's exactly what I thought of October Project. I thought their first album was great but then they just seemed to go downhill from there. A friend went to see them when they toured and I heard it was a pretty awful show. Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com "Roses wait for the springtime, They sleep beneath the ground. They hear March winds a callin' For the spring to come around."vlj Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:30:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: special days! njc the other day i learned that a city in brazil celebrates ORGASM DAY on may 9. should the world community join in? wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Ciao Dave! Well, some of us do like DED. It's one of my favorite Joni albums. I think the songs are more melodic than some on DJRD, which is probably my least favorite (except for a few songs.) I always thought the voice on DED was Thomas Dolby through a synthesizer or something, but I reallize I just made that up. So anyway, you're not alone. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project Victor Johnson wrote: > > > > And that's another category: artists who never grew from the first album. > > Makes the transient fans happy, I suppose. > > > > Gil > >That's exactly what I thought of October Project. I thought their first >album was great but then they just seemed to go downhill from there. A >friend went to see them when they toured and I heard it was a pretty awful >show. This is where I betray the fact that I've been living in a tree for the past decade or so. Who is October Project. (Yeah, I could look it up, but this gives anyone a chance to vent or show off their knowledge. And isn't that what list groups are all about? ;-) ) Gil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:42:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Christian labels NJC The Gospel/Christian genre is huge from what I understand.... >>My niece, who is very talented, is being courted by several Christian labels<< I am almost afraid to ask, but will risk it. What is a Christian label? ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:35:40 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: Best of '69 (NJC) Thanks for that Jimmy. That sure makes this years list look ever worse. I gave up on watching that telecast years ago and not too much later on all awards shows and when the oscar for best film went to that ridiculous, trashy Kevin Spacey movie I knew I would never watch again. . mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:41:35 -0600 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: ladies NJC hi again colin! i think that what is meant by thinking "lady" an offensive term is that the word seems to suggest some kind of class stature or education level or social designation that "woman" does not have. that is, some people believe that "lady" is an outdated term which holds today's women to a past, class- and manners-based system which is no longer relevant. does that help? - -- emily, on her third post of the day! whew! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:45:07 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: NJC So glad Joni wasn't there... Well, I'm just so disgusted with the industry in general that I didn't even watch. I taped it, but I'll probably tape over it - maybe with a golf tournament or stock car racing - or why not just tape a bunch of commercials. Same thing... lots of love Anne who is still unhappy with the industry... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:45:48 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Grammy questions http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/grammys/print.ballot.html That link is to the entire list of winners, with nominees. In my always alternative view, I am thankful that they do not do all the presentations on tv - the show would never end. Te tv producers always pick what to televise based on a variety of factors - when the Native American music was first given a few years back, that was on tv because the Grammy people got to pat themselves on the back for having that (long overdue) category. You will never see the day when the best opera recording is televised. The categories are hype anyway. There wasn't even a best female rock performance category a few years ago. The Grammys are always a joke. MTV's Video awards are always more fun. The Grammys are neither art nor science. Dreadful presentors with dreadful prewritten banter - the only reason to watch is the curiosity value and to be exposed to a few new artists. This is a damned awards show after all. Jon Stewart was really bad this year, a shame, because he is usually so good. Too bad that the lifetime things were done so quickly, and I was disappointed that they used old Joni for her 15 secs of airtime, but since she skipped out on the Rock and Roll of Fame, if they made a big deal over her, would she have shown up? Joni has to cooperate on occasion. I love Joni but she carries the love me from afar bit to extremes. I like Alisha Keyes a whole lot more than a lot of people here do, I guess. I thought that Train did themselves a lot of good by their perdormance. Was that a whale that swallowed Billy Joel? That speech opn downloaded music being the greatst evil in history was ridiculous - not to enter that debate, but if that is your position, make it without the overblown dramatics. Being a real cynic, I have been disappointed with most of the posts on the Grammys. Thank you Victor for tellings us about India.arie from before she made it. With all the artists and engineers on this list, I would like to learn more about some of the Grammy categories. What is the best engineered record? How can I, the music fan but ignorant of the science ad art, have a clue on this? What is a best recording package - and best boxed recording package follows, I suppose. How can I make a pick on producer of the year, classical and non classical? What are the skills and talents that they are looking for here? Was anyone else but me surprised at the tie on best album notes? How did Firesign Theatre lose best comedy album? What is the best instrumental arrangement with/without accompanying vocalist(s)? Is that for the arrangement, not the performance, and if so, do they judge by sheet music, or what? Was anyone else stunned that the End Credits of Castaway even existed, let alone won best instrumental composition? And God bless Linkin Park. Glad they won - although I am clueless as the difference between best hard rock performance and best rock performance by a duo or group. Is that just a judgmnent call - is Linkin Park harder than U2, based on my opinion (they are), or is there an onjective standard here? Muasic experts, jump all over me, but I really am asking these questions because I do not know the answers. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:52:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC In The Bedroom I have wanted to see this but am afraid I will walk out feeling sad/depressed...is that so? If it is I will have to wait for a time when I am feeling emotionally tough... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: Grammy Grumblings, continued (VLJC) > U2 is fine, but I don't see the genius. I think they write those pop songs in about 15 minutes and a lot of it is just repetitious crap. THANK YOU!!! I think they're way overrated. If I wrote that stuff, I'd NEVER get anywhere. (well, not that I'm exactly getting anywhere, anyway...) The more I see, the more amazed I am that Joni has survived at all. Intelligence just doesn't sell, mostly because the record execs don't want it to. Gee, that would mean having to come up with something intelligent next week, and the week after... They're not up to it. I wonder if there'll ever be anti-trust suits against the 5 companies that basically control all entertainment in the U.S.... lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:46:24 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Norah Jones sjc On 1 Mar 2002 at 4:32, FredNow@aol.com wrote: > But Norah Jones ... I'm betting on her. Last night I read an email > from a friend telling me I had to check her out (had never heard of > her) and simultaneously flipping TV channels landing on Leno in the > middle of Norah Jones' song. I only heard a little bit, but she's > really got it. I highly recommend checking out her on-air performance on Vin Scelsa's great show, Idiot's Delight on WFVU. She appeared last fall. About an hour into the show he asks her about what she's listening to and she gets downright giddy talking about Joni. She mentions Blue and Turbulent Indigo as her favorites and talks about how hard it is to let go of the "old" Joni but that she loves where Joni's voice is now. Check it out here under Streaming Audio: http://www.norahjones.com/av/default.htm Brenda n.p.: Norah Jones - "No Easy Way Down" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Grammy broadcast & observations(ljc) > I'm with Bob...I think it's mostly hype. I also don't think she would have won any > Grammies if Clive had not cranked up the PR machine. (Hiring the right publicist to > work the voters can get you a nomination and it can get you the award.) Those > Grammies are as much for him as they are for her. Yeah, and at least we know where the French judge went after the Olympics :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:05:53 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: bafta's and oscars njc I agree, Mack. And considering I walked out on or fell asleep during the Oscar nominated films I saw this year, I doubt I'll watch the ceremonies. (My favorite movies were Monster's Inc. and Harry Potter. I guess that means I'm in my second childhood...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:54 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: Funny Statistics (njc) >> 1. Average life expectancy ( in seconds ) of an >> enemy soldier in a Chuck Norris film : 4 >> >> 2. Number of men who have written letters >> proposing marriage to Vanna White : 3506 >> >> 3. Age most people stop believing in Santa Claus : 8 >> Age most people stop believing in politicians : 7 >> >> 4. Number of chemical elements in the universe : 104 >> In a glass of New Jersey tap water : 98 >> >> 5. Number of "Yuppie-dramas" now being developed >> by the 3 major networks : thirtysomething >> >> 6. Number of days into baseball season before >> Cleveland Indians are written off as pennant >> contendors : 5 >> >> 7. Average powder base ( in inches ) on Aspen >> ski slope : 17 >> On Tammy Bakker : 1/4 >> >> 8. Salary of the average Pro Wrestler : $47,500 /yr. >> If Pro Wrestling didn't exist : $4.25/hr. >> >> 9. Number of things that annoy Andy Rooney : 2,000,000 >> Number of people annoyed by Andy Rooney : 23,000,000 >> >> 10. Average miles per gallon you can expect if a >> car maker's ad says " 30 mpg, city" : 23 >> >> 11. Number of people who aren't doctors, but play >> them on TV : 57 >> Who aren't doctor's but play them in >> hospitals : 5,840 >> >> 12. Number of people in the history of air travel >> who have been able to get a $99 Maxsaver >> fare to coast : 2 >> Restrictions for that fare : 237 >> >> 13. Percentage of the public that understand the >> new tax code : 11% >> Percentage of accountants who understand it : 9% >> Percentage of IRS employees who understand it : 6% >> >> 14. Number of people who work for the government : about half >> >> 15. Number of Americans who believe any of the >> statistics on this page are accurate : 2,478,644 >> Who believe TV Evangelists are trustworthy : 2,478,644 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:39:47 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC 'Smore: The Pretenders (same) Dire Straits (same) Creedence Clearwater Revival (same) Country Joe & The Fish-Electric Music For the Body & Mind Fiona Apple-Tidal The Bangles-All Over The Place Janis Ian (same) Mahavishnu Orchestra-The Inner Mounting Flame ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:42:20 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC Ladies Some street mug will come up to a woman and say "Hey lady...." Maybe they don't use it that way in the UK. Kind of rude but not really in the same category as the other two. RR colin wrote: > Have been reading a heavy book. Part of it is about language and how it > changes and how different languages interpret the world differently and > express certain things differently.(this same book, btw, also talks > about why the USA is considered UScentric by many) > anyway, I was confused about this: > the author writes of how in the 70's and since certain words have become > 'bad' words that should not be used as they offend people. Nigger, queer > and lady were mentioned. > I get the first two words but do not understand the latter. i did not > know it was offensive to use the word lady to describe a woman. No one > has ever pulled me up on it and it is a word I use. I thought it was a > polite way to speak of a woman. > So if you know why, could you explain please? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: NJC Grammy questions Vince Lavieri wrote: > What is the best engineered record? How can I, the music fan but > ignorant of the science ad art, have a clue on this? The best sounding on a technical level. Recorded, mixed and mastered well. Think Steely Dan or Dark Side of the Moon. > What is a best recording package - and best boxed recording package > follows, I suppose. Best layout, artwise, I think > How can I make a pick on producer of the year, > classical and non classical? What are the skills and talents that they > are looking for here? The producer is to a record as the director is to a movie, ala George Martin. Skills and talents vary from total involvement in every aspect from songwriting to final mix, to just sitting there and smiling and letting it happen. > How > did Firesign Theatre lose best comedy album? George Carlin beat them out for the following reasons. His "Napalm and Silly Putty" was the same title as his best selling book. He has a much higher profile because he does HBO specials each year and does the talk shows. Most people aren't aware that Firesign is still going, much less that they made a new record. Finally, IMO, "Bride of Firesign" was not that fantastic. I was still pulling for them, but not surprised. > What is the best instrumental arrangement with/without accompanying > vocalist(s)? Is that for the arrangement, yes > not the performance, and if > so, do they judge by sheet music, or what? no, because you can have an arrangement without writing it down. I guess to some extent, especially in rock and jazz, the performance and the arrangement can be hard to separate. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:14:44 -0500 From: "brian symes" Subject: Rusty Chariots in "I had a King" Young Joni did lived in a fairy tale world but I think the leadedgas air in Detroit added to fracturing alice's mirror,and the metaphor of rusty chariots in "I had a king" I think refers to the high road salt use during the winter in Detroit. Back then the Big Three lived on the Three year loan plan. Not Rust proofing the cars was plan oblsensence, a personal story proves this. Dad went out and bought a 57 De Soto after he payed it off he was driving down Five Mile Road one winter's day with his mother in the passenger seat when he hit a pothole crossing the Rouge river Bridge the next thing I saw from the back seat was Grand ma falling thru the floor board with sparks flying in to the back seat on me. File a lawsuit no he worked for Chyrsler so he went out and bought a new Plymouth sedan. NP Cal Tjader, Ritmo Uni with the same sound as Joni did on the Tenth World - -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:12:17 EST To: , Subject: Re: Perception is.... nothing. 100% JC > < about?>> > > I Had A King...from Song To A Seagull, first song. > > LOVE these tough trivia questions! ;~) > > Bob > - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:16:54 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project This is where I betray the fact that I've been living in a tree for the past decade or so. Who is October Project. That's okay...I've always been a decade or so behind myself. I didn't even know who the Smiths were till people started telling me in 1993 that I sounded like Morrissey, who I had never heard of either. October Project put out a self titled debut album in the mid-late 90's. The cover had a little kid trickortreating with a mask(bag) over his head. They had a nice sound with really beautiful vocals, lush arrangements, short melodic love songs...they did tend to sound alot alike but they were good songs, I liked the general sound they were getting and it was definately an impressive debut even if it sounded somewhat crafted. I suppose though, ultimately they weren't able to really go anywhere with it as their second album was much worse, sounding like a rehashed version of the prior one. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:23:49 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC Ladies No i meant as in 'ladies and gentlemen'. The 'hey lady' is not used here as far as i am aware. The offence tot he term 'lady' is a feminist thing but I don't know why. Randy Remote wrote: > Some street mug will come up to a woman and say > "Hey lady...." Maybe they don't use it that way in the UK. > Kind of rude but not really in the same category as the other two. > RR > > colin wrote: > > > Have been reading a heavy book. Part of it is about language and how it > > changes and how different languages interpret the world differently and > > express certain things differently.(this same book, btw, also talks > > about why the USA is considered UScentric by many) > > anyway, I was confused about this: > > the author writes of how in the 70's and since certain words have become > > 'bad' words that should not be used as they offend people. Nigger, queer > > and lady were mentioned. > > I get the first two words but do not understand the latter. i did not > > know it was offensive to use the word lady to describe a woman. No one > > has ever pulled me up on it and it is a word I use. I thought it was a > > polite way to speak of a woman. > > So if you know why, could you explain please? - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:20:32 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC Velvet Underground, "Velvet Underground and Nico" Pavement, "Slanted and Enchanted" Jaco Pastorious, "Jaco Pastorious" Wire, "Pink Flag" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:20:01 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project This is where I betray the fact that I've been living in a tree for the past decade or so. Who is October Project. That's okay...I've always been a decade or so behind myself. I didn't even know who the Smiths were till people started telling me in 1993 that I sounded like Morrissey, who I had never heard of either. October Project put out a self titled debut album in the mid-late 90's. The cover had a little kid trickortreating with a mask(bag) over his head. They had a nice sound with really beautiful vocals, lush arrangements, short melodic love songs...they did tend to sound alot alike but they were good songs, I liked the general sound they were getting and it was definately an impressive debut even if it sounded somewhat crafted. I suppose though, ultimately they weren't able to really go anywhere with it as their second album was much worse, sounding like a rehashed version of the prior one. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:30:49 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: special days! njc Wally Kairuz wrote: > the other day i learned that a city in brazil celebrates ORGASM DAY on may > 9. I knew that. it is in my honour on account of a particularly rampant visit i paid there. it was explosive and they have never forgotten. So they honoured me in this way. rather sweet I think. > should the world community join in? quite a few did..... > > wally - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:40:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: bafta's and oscars njc > At least in regards to the oscars, don't have any firsthand knowledge of the > british awards but cannot imagine it could be much different since all > awards shows are so subjective anyway. i would think you are correct in your imagining. It always seemd to me that one cannot really compare perfromances. How can one say that dame judi did a beter acting job than Sissy Spacek? I don;t think you can. of course if was between Sissy or judi and a day time soap star..... Samre for the grammies. All our pronouncements on art the same-just subjective opinions. i.e Bob thinks Tracy chapamn's last album is crap and alison thinks it's wonderful. Subjective. But then everything we think is subjective. we cannot be objective.... > > > mack - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:40:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: ladies NJC Emily Gray Tedrowe wrote: > hi again colin! > > i think that what is meant by thinking "lady" an offensive > term is that the word seems to suggest some kind of class > stature or education level or social designation that > "woman" does not have. that is, some people believe that > "lady" is an outdated term which holds today's women to > a past, class- and manners-based system which is no longer > relevant. > > does that help? yes it does. You amke it very clear. Thank you very munch. > > > -- emily, on her third post of the day! whew! - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:40:40 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Christian labels NJC Mike Pritchard wrote: > I am almost afraid to ask, but will risk it. What is a Christian label? A record label that puts out Christian music. A real growth segment in the last decade. We have alot of Christian stations on the dial in N.Cal (and everywhere else). Sometimes you will think you are on a mainstream rock station for a couple minutes, until you notice some of the lyrics. And yes, I was surprised and more than slightly amused not long ago to learn of a new genre: Gansta Christian. No lie. Still waiting to see the first street rumble between the Baptists and Episcopalians... RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:52:42 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni poem and grammys Deb, I just wanted to thank you for the Joni poem (which I read with pleasure in two separate posts). It's a beautiful portrait of an artist, and I think it speaks as much about Joni as it does Mr. Hutchins. On the Grammys, I just have to vent this, I think I'm getting old, because truly, this show is just getting more crass and trashy every year, and unfortunately, it also reflects our pop music culture. Where have our great artists gone? Michaelo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:35:42 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project Victor wrote: <> I agree!! I stil listen to this album a lot, and never seem to tire of it. <> I disagree here. I like the second album as much as the first. They had a lot of MAJOR problems with the label, and thet received very little money, even though their first album skyrocketed. (Surprise, surprise.) They regrouped, and formed a new band with a new vocalist, called themselves November Project, and came out with a decent EP. They disbanded, are reforming once again, and I am interested in hearing their new sound. In the meantime, Mary Fahl, the original lead singer, who has one of the most interesting deep voices I've ever heard, is on her own, and has also come out with an EP. Those of you who received my January "CD of the Month" have heard her sing "Paolo" from that EP. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:53:38 EST From: CoyoteRick@aol.com Subject: Re: Christian labels NJC In a message dated 3/1/02 4:41:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: > A record label that puts out Christian music. A real growth segment > in the last decade. A real good pal of mine, and an incredible musician of some industry renown, frustrated with mainstream labels, has been courting so-called Christian labels to get his second recording contract. While his music certainly has a spiritual message, and he identifies as a committed Christian, his true love is good old-fashioned rock-and-roll. He has been impressed with the "biz" aspects of the Christian labels, but is fearful of their knowledge that potential crossover artists may use them as a mere stepping stone. His so-called Christian music is quite edgy (I love it); therefore, he has closeted his rock-and-roll loves around those in positions of influence to further his career. The problem with my pal. He has respect, but no love for JM! Don't worry LA JMDLers, some of you have met him, but I make sure he keeps his JM distaste in the closet as well! I still think he could do a mean version of Two Gray Rooms. On a final note. I have nothing but respect for Christian labels. From what I have been told, artists celebrating a Christian theme in their music were in no-man's land before the advent (pun intended) of these so-called labels. I love some good old tent revival gospel music. I also have friends who exclusively listen to music with a spiritual appeal. I feel happy they have a place that realizes many among us long for such CDs. I know NUTHIN about the music biz (except by osmosis from this List) but have been told artists making the "Christian Labels" successful today hadn't near as many avenues 15 years ago. No regrets, Coyote Rick Casa Alegre Hollywood, California "Only fools are afraid to be burned by fire..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:00:34 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Joni at dinner I had family over for dinner and was so pleased to hear my college-age niece say she's "obsessed" with Cotton Avenue. She made me lend her my copy of DJRD. Her boyfriend ask shyly if he could look at the Mingus album. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:53:46 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Debut albums NJC October Project I disagree here. I like the second album as much as the first. They had a lot of MAJOR problems with the label, and thet received very little money, even though their first album skyrocketed. Maybe I'll give it another listen sometime when I get a chance. I only heard it once and that was long ago. I really like Mary's voice as well. I've not heard many like it. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:10:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC > 'Smore: > > The Pretenders (same) > I bought this on cd recently and have been listening to it during my morning & evening commutes. What an incredible record! I'd forgotten just how good it was! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:23:22 -0800 From: "Jerome ." Subject: Re: bafta's njc Truth be told, Colin, I think the main reason that the Oscars are spoken of and not the BAFTAs is that they're merely a blurb on our TV sets here, whereas the Oscars are non stop coverage. Ditto with the Brits vs the Grammys. Also, don't the Oscars get international broadcast? I think that may play a major hand in it. In any event, I do keep up with the awards shows through the newswires (Reuters, mostly). I'm sure I speak for many when I say that nobody intends to exclude those on the list outside of the US. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:28:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Debut albums NJC <> Another GREAT one! I'd forgotten all about that one, Jan. Gotta head down to the basement and start pulling some vinyl! Bob NP: Ben Harper, "Glory & Consequence" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:32:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: March Madness - Covers # 27 (I sent this earlier today, but I don't think it went through...sorry if it's a repeat.) Yes, it's time for "March Madness"...no, I'm not talking about the NCAA, I'm talking about another slamdunk of Joni covers! And March comes in like a lion, with another collection of eclectic (& sometimes pathetic) versions of Joni tunes. Fresh off of its "World Premiere" in Athens, GA, here's the rundown: 1. Nick DeCaro - All I Want: The "Love Boat lounge" version. 2. Catfish Hodge - For Free: This one's an odd duck. Bob "Catfish" Hodge worked with a lot of mostly southern R & B Artists, and put out a couple of solo records. This cover of For Free is a tough listen at first, but I find it very soulful. 3. Don Randi - Both Sides Now: Ho Hum. 4. Percy Faith - Big Yellow Taxi: Once you get past the "turkey in the straw" barnyard intro, this one is also pretty dull. From the "Black Magic Woman" LP...(somehow I can't imagine Percy with a black magic woman.) 5. Roger Cardwell - The Circle Game: Australia's answer to Roger Whitaker. 6. Lill Lindfors - Gladigen (Carey in Swedish): I don't speak Swedish, but I think she's basically rewritten this song with a different subject. It's awfully pretty though. 7. Barry Miles - Woodstock: A nice funky early 70's jazz workout. Shaft-like. 8. Jimmy Winchell - Free Man In Paris: I used to wish I could sing. Now I wish HE could. SO bad, it should have won a grammy! ;~) 9. Turid - Jag Vet En Prins (I Had A King/Swedish) Turid is/was a 60's/70's folksinger with a Joni-like beautiful voice. Listen to the piano intro here and tell me that it doesn't have a Court & Spark feel to it. And this was recorded in '73 before C&S! 10. Ray Charles Singers - Both Sides Now: Ho Hum. Nothing to do with THE Ray Charles... 11. Leslie Ritter/Scott Petito - Woodstock: This is from their CD released last year called "Circles In Sand". It's a great CD, very new age but more down to earth. This is one of my favorite versions of Woodstock. 12. Ken Watters Group - Both Sides Now: Also from 2001, this is a great jazz interpretation with Ken on trumpet & flugelhorn with a fine quartet. 13. Peter White - River: Featuring Kenny Lattimore on the vocal, sounds great, very soulful, perhaps just a tad too sanitized for my tastes, but I'm sure it would be a popular favorite. 14. Hanne Boel - How Do You Stop: A pleasant enough vocal on this song which I know isn't REALLY a Joni cover. 15. Bernie Steinberg/Tina Malia - The Circle Game: Off of a CD called "Folk Music For Kids", this is a duet sung by 2 children, which raises the question of whether it makes sense to have kids singing a song about watching kids grow up. They do a fine job with it though. 16. Davy Graham - Both Sides Now: Here's the medallion-piece of this CD to me...mostly because this one is hard to find, and well worth the hunt! Anything BUT ho hum. About 7 minutes long, with a "Cotton Ave" like guitar intro, in a raga mode, then Davy breaks into a guitar lick EXACTLY like what Joni did in "In France They Kiss On Main Street" (this song was recorded in 1968) then the tempo picks up and it's an acoustic roller-coaster ride. Boy is it great!! There you have it, another fine entry into the never-ending saga that is the JMDL covers project. Coming up: how you can get a copy for your very own! Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Round Of Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:47:39 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #96 - More Grammy Whammies I guess if you're pretty, put "crap" on your eyelids and have Clive Davis backing you up, you can win five Grammys your first time at bat. It may be a good album (I really don't know), but I suspect ol' Clive has a lot to do with its success and accolades. I hadn't heard "Fallin'" before (like Joni I only occasionally FORCE myself to listen to pop radio), but I couldn't help thinking "What's all the fuss over this song about?". I (and perhaps only I) enjoyed John Stewart. He pokes fun at the music business, stardom, etc., and is a lot nicer to look at than Whoopi Goldberg (no offense, Whoopi Groupies...and I know Whoopi is an Oscar host, not a Grammy host, but whatever...) I was also impressed by Mary J. Blige, apparently an intelligent, powerful artist. Not such a great song she did, though. The Lady Marmalade extravaganza was almost sickening, until Patty saved it at the last moment. But being gay, I am genetically predisposed to believe that Patty could save anything, I can't help it (and I'm not even a fan of hers)...Have a nice weekend, everyone. Oh, by the way, here's another "six (or less) degrees of separation" thing: My mother used to work side-by-side as a hairdresser (or "beauty operator," as they were called then) in Dayton, OH, with the mother of Harley Allen, the bluegrass artist who won for OBWAT. Both beauticians were named Betty. Harley's dad, whom he mentioned during his short acceptance speech, was the late Red Allen, also a bluegrass artist. There, now you know.... Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: Debut albums NJC Continuing this small thread, Here's my list of 'perfect' (or close to it) debut lp's: The B-52's Suzanne Vega The Plastics-Welcome Plastics The Clash God Bless Tiny Tim The Shaggs-Philosophy of the World They Might Be Giants REM-Murmer (they had an ep before this, so it might not count) Phranc-Folksinger Nick Lowe-Pure Pop for Now People (titled "Jesus of Cool" in the UK, a vastly superior title) The Gun Club-Fire of Love The Modern Lovers Gang of Four-Entertainment Prefab Sprout-Swoon Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! Los Lobos-Los Lobos Del Este De Los Angeles Patti Smith-Horses Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think ofright now. Tyler feeling punky tonight Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #99 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?