From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #73 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 13 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 073 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- austin njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] baz luhrmann njc moulin rouge ["Dolphie Bush" ] Today's Articles: February 13 [les@jmdl.com] Today in History: February 13 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Dylan Question, NJC [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc ["Robert Holliston" ] Re: Kate and Jeff in NYC, and now L.A... [NJC] [Julius Raymond ] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc [Julius Raymond ] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc ["Kakki" ] RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: lon g & somewhat technical) NJC [] RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: lon g & somewhat technical) NJC [] RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) ["Gregg Cagno" ] Re: Kate and Jeff in NYC, and now L.A... [NJC] [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni on CKUA ["Brett Code" ] Re: baz luhrmann njc moulin rouge [Jerry Notaro ] Happy Birthday/Happy Mardi Gras/(NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Diane Zeigler (was 'men killing women') NJC ["Paul Castle" ] CSNY touring....(njc) [BigWaltinSF@aol.com] Re: Men Killing Women NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) [Randy Remote ] Gawwwly - Gomer goes to New York (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" [Howard ] Re: Gawwwly - Gomer goes to New York or maybe the Stone Pony (NJC) [RoseM] Jonifest 2002 Logo [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The S Word (NJC) [Gil Lamont ] Re: LA in the '60s (NJC) [The New Guy ] Weylon Jennings and Dave Van Ronk in one week (NJC) [The New Guy ] Re: CSNY touring....(njc) [Michael Paz ] LOVE! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: McSmurfie's Park NJC [chiaroscuro@snet.net] Re: Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) [Michael Paz Subject: austin njc Just home from Austin. Didn't know it but they have a mardi gras celebration of their own. Couldn't stay for the whole thing but did get in 3 hours of some pretty good music. Things were just heating up when I had to leave. Drats. Keep thinking of Victor as I walked by this place where a male singer was performing. He had a pretty good voice but the material wasn't my cup of tea. And my goodness, they towed all the cars off of 6th street that were not removed. A bunch of em. Didn't want to come home. Imagine there is quite a lot of debauchery going on right now. Double drats. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:42:57 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: baz luhrmann njc moulin rouge Did I spell that right? Isn't this the same person that directed Strictly Ballroom? If so, must see that flick. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:27:39 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: accents njc Yes, Gil. "The Trip to Bountiful" was close to Houston somewhere, according to the script. The coast they kept talking about was that of Texas. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 03:36:08 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: February 13 On February 13 the following articles were published: 1975: "Miles of Aisles" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/750213rs.cfm 1976: "Cold Blue Steel" - News Record (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/760213nr.cfm 1978: "Stephen's Ladies" - People (News Item, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/780213p.cfm 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Newark Star-Ledger (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000213nsl.cfm 2000: "On The Record" - Long Island Newsday (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000213lin.cfm 2000: "Something's Lost and Something's Gained" - New York Times (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000213nyt.cfm - ------------------------ http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 03:36:08 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 13 On February 13 in Joni Mitchell History: 1978: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is certified gold by the RIAA. - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database at http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:36:38 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Dylan Question, NJC On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:50:59 -0000 "Laurent Olszer" wrote: > Actually I've always wondered too why Dylan became so popular. > I don't have the answer. The reasons that were given are good but > there's one small problem: that is how do you explain his popularity > OUTSIDE the U.S.. I mean in countries with no Vietnam war, different > social problems altogether and in which the "messages" wouldn't be > understood the same way if at all... Apart from his qualities of poetic and musical genius (which I think carry through at least to Western audiences regardless of language differences), I think Dylan is popular because he doesn't put on any airs and is totally himself without apology. He isn't especially beautiful to look at and his voice isn't all that great, yet he still gets up on the stage and is famous - - I think many people find this appealing or somehow identify with him in this way. It is as though he is a representative of/for inner truth and beauty. He is very captivating on the stage - very intense when performing and beautiful to watch. (I love Bob Dylan!) I haven't really been reading this thread, so sorry if I've repeated anything someone else has said. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:20:36 -0800 From: "Robert Holliston" Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc Happy Birthday, sweet Nikki!! Since the JMDL BEE EPH has already anointed you as a wicked child, my advice is to order another martini. Might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb (rather a grisly old saying, eh?) Big old hugs, Roberto > >H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > >N I K K I > >you wicked child you! > >wally and the JMDL BEE EPH _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:15:47 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: Kate and Jeff in NYC, and now L.A... [NJC] Oh, what I wouldn't give to have been in the NYC Living Room for this! So glad our Gotham contingent came out in force. I recall sitting next to Kate at Coyote Rick's Casa Allegre in L.A. just last month, listening to her and Jeff performing "Irene" and other songs. It was one of those uniquely JMDL moments I have come to live for. Kate is a singularly gifted singer/songwriter/musician and a natural beauty. Jeff channels the true spirit of the blues with his transfixing harmonica styling. To confess, I'm a softy when it comes to these rarified heartfelt husband/wife acoustic acts. I found myself biting back tears sitting there, like I was at a wedding or something. Maybe it was the all-alcohol Coyote Rick margaritas talking. ;-) Kakki, Steve and Michele Dulson, Ken, Donna, Paz, Clark and Alison to my left and all around. Grand piano and guitars...harmonicas and dulcimer. Sweet music, fine talented company, in the most relaxing of environments. Wish you all had been there. Rick has perhaps the most unique original piece of Joni art in existence displayed in an area overlooking this living room, to top it all off. The unique splendor of these gatherings, whether east or west, are integral to what this list has come to be about for me. What a blessing. It's all happening. Come to find out that in addition to being a top-flight bluesman, Jeff's an accomplished graphic designer. I tucked away a few of the handbills he designed for their NYC gigs for keep-sakes. Really quality work with fetching color photos of the two of them and a guitar beautifully superimposed. So, what's the next stop on the world tour, Kate and Jeff, and what do we have to do to get youse up to the Bay Area? - -Julius np: Macy Gray on Leno from Park City, Utah. Sounds great, but inexplicably she has a big floppy hat completely covering her face. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dsk" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:07 PM Subject: Kate and Jeff in NYC [NJC] > Congratulations to Kate and Jeff for a really fine show tonight!!! They > both sounded great!!! "Irene" was my favorite, with Jeff's "Daddy" song > a close second; that was so sweet, and the lyrics were intriguingly > twisty and clever, and Kate singing that long "Ireeene" almost started > the waterworks. It was such a melancholy sound and songs/stories about > leaving always touch me. It really was an enjoyable show in every way, > even with my tear ducts about to go into action, and fun, too, spending > some time with jonilisters again and drinking draft lager made in > Brooklyn, good stuff (who knew?). > > Thanks Kate! Thanks Jeff! I'm so glad you came by to sing to us New Yorkers. > > Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:28:43 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > > N I K K I And a big "me too" from me too! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:45:29 -0800 From: Julius Raymond Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc Happy Birthday, dear Nicole! Philadelphia freedom took you in I do imagine...we haven't heard from you in awhile. :-) The best of everything to you, always. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:56:42 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc Roberto best expresses my wishes ;-) Have a wonderful birthday week! Love, Kakki > Happy Birthday, sweet Nikki!! > Since the JMDL BEE EPH has already anointed you as a wicked child, my advice > is to order another martini. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:24:49 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: lon g & somewhat technical) NJC I've always used the character "b" to represent a flat. I tried using the chord name finder at: http://guitar.to/guitar/index.html and got: 055040 = Bb9 m6 022010 = Gm11 000000 = F9 000210 = Fsus4 999999 = D9 777777 = C9 555555 = Bb9 444444 = A9 222222 = G9 000033 = Cm sus4 044030 = Fmaj9 For the key you want, this would be: 055040 = Gb9 m6 022010 = Eb 11 000000 = Db 9 000210 = Db sus4 999999 = Bb 9 777777 = Ab 9 555555 = Gb 9 444444 = F9 222222 = Eb 9 000033 = Am sus4 044030 = Dbmaj 9 Would be curious to know if these chords work. I really need a piano, but don't have one available at the moment. REgards, Marian Vienna + + + + + + + On 12 February 2002 20:04, BigWaltinSF@aol.com [SMTP:BigWaltinSF@aol.com] wrote: > Anyhoo, using "@" for "flat" (e.g., B@ means B-flat), and using "9" loosely > to mean "add 2" (so C9 could mean either C-D-E-G or C-E-G-D[octave]), here's > what I got: > > Intro: > > E@dim/D@... D@sus4...2...4 D@9...2...4...D@9 > (repeat) > B@9... > > [B@9] Funny day, looking for laughter and > > [A@9] finding it there > > [B@9] Sunny day, braiding wildflowers and > > [A@m] leaves in my > > [A@m7/D@] hair [-->A@m6/D@] > > [G@9] Picked up a pencil and > > [G@m9] wrote I love you > > [D@9] in my finest hand > > [G@m9] I wanted to send it, but I > > [E@dim(7)] don't know where I > > [D@9] stand [D@sus4...2..4..D@9] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:26:42 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: lon g & somewhat technical) NJC On 13 February 2002 11:25, RUSSELL, Marian wrote: > For the key you want, this would be: > 022010 = Eb 11 the above should read: 022010 = Ebm 11 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:30:45 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" NJC what is the tuning, marian? love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:40:29 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" NJC FFCGAC love, Marian On 13 February 2002 11:31, Wally Kairuz [SMTP:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] wrote: > what is the tuning, marian? > love, > wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:43:43 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: lon g & somewhat technical) NJC I also think: 000033 = Am sus4 should be changed to: 000033 = Abm sus4 (All the chords are a major third below the ones in the tuning.) Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:46:52 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in fiction In a message dated 13/02/02 02:22:37 GMT Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > > << Nick Hornby's "About a Boy" is the only book I can think of with Joni > content. >> > > Thanks for this info, Jacky. I guess Nick Hornby must be a Joni fan, since > he also made a reference to her in "High Fidelity." > I'm sure he is a fan. However, the book isn't exactly a good advert for her music! The boy in question is brought up by his single, depressive, Joni loving mother on a diet of Joni music (what could be better, you might think). When he gets to school he is considered to be very uncool and is bullied for his appearance and music taste. The story, without wishing to spoil it for you, is of the boy's journey from being a Joni-lover to a Joni-hater, at which point we know he's going to survive in the world. > I will add this info to my Joni in FIction file, which will eventually be > part of the JMDL site. Very cool! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:07:28 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Men Killing Women NJC Thanks again for all the suggestions for 'murder songs'. Id just like to mention some points on this theme. Beware of taking the phrase 'hit me' to mean violence. I think there are many uses of this phrase and when I hear it I see Tom Waits in a bar saying hit me again to the barman. Other metaphorical uses are at work everywhere, as with Neil Young's 'taking me for a ride'. I see 'Down by the River' as being about a woman, not a car, but that's just my take. I don't want to get into criticising black rap bands, for many reasons. My whole point is that these types of songs have been around as long as folk songs have existed and are not exclusive to young (mostly) black bands. Further to that last point, it is important that these songs claim or seek male fellowship in order to minimise/excuse the violence, and the songs I've selected have infiltrated their way into popular culture so well that the people don't even think of the meaning any more. Those of you who have been in a working class bar in Britain will no doubt have seen the old ladies arm in arm, swaying and singing 'Delilah', oblivious to the (hardly subtle) lyrics. Same goes for 'Hey Joe', especially the lines 'ain't no hangman gonna put no noose around me, just because, just because I shot her down'. That word 'just' puts a chill down my spine every time I hear it. I'm not concerned at this time in other violence, as in 'Luka' or 'Earl had to Die' but thanks for the info anyway. I may be able to use it in the printed version. Two songs which interest me are The Tori Amos version of '97 Bonnie and Clyde' and 'The Water Song' by Ute Lemper. I have lots of stuff by Ute but I can't find this track here, although there are still some more record shops to check out. Finally, can someone explain to me what 'gaslighting' means in Steely Dan's song 'Gaslighting Abby'? Thanks again to everyone. Mike in Barcelona. Still waiting for the REAL story behind 'Not to Blame', which ties in with the male solidarity thing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:44:16 From: "Gregg Cagno" Subject: Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) A fine set by the Santa Barbara contingent of the JMDL. Kate & Jeff warmed up NYC with voice, guitar, groove and feel. A perfect room for an intimate sound. Thanks for bringing us a nice taste of California guys! Good to see Rosey (as always) and Kay there too supporting our buds. OK who's next??? Paz?? Come freeze in the great Northeast ;) GC NP: 'the piano has been drinking, not me' tom waits (actually me too, otherwise I sure wouldn't be up at 7...) ___________________________________________________________ Gregg Cagno greggno@pobox.com www.greggcagno.com ___________________________________________________________ "Sing and dance way past full" - -Billy Jonas __________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:00:01 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Kate and Jeff in NYC, and now L.A... [NJC] In a message dated 2/13/02 4:26:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrmills@pacbell.net writes: > Come to find out that in addition to being a top-flight bluesman, Jeff's an > accomplished graphic designer. I tucked away a few of the handbills he > designed for their NYC gigs for keep-sakes. Really quality work with > fetching color photos of the two of them and a guitar beautifully > superimposed. > and I've got a few tucked away... Oh and I knew I had forgotten someone...Kay Ashley was there too :) rj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:22:03 -0700 From: "Brett Code" Subject: Joni on CKUA My show is on today - for the next 3 hours - www.ckua.org Click on "On the Air" The Fiddle and the Drum is playing right now. At least 3 other of JM's war songs will be played. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:14:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: baz luhrmann njc moulin rouge Dolphie Bush wrote: > Did I spell that right? Isn't this the same person that directed Strictly > Ballroom? If so, must see that flick. Yes. If only MR had been as good as SB. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:22:36 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) <> Well, I'm coming to NYC but not to perform. Wouldn't want to follow a class act like Jeff & Kate anyway. ;~) I'll be there the weekend of April 27, with Saturday night open for a meet & greet with NY (and RI, MD, MA, CT, NJ & PA & ?) JMDLer's, so c'mon New Yawk, let's Pah-tay!! And hey Gregg, while I got your ear I gotta tell you that I've been grooving to your "Tales of 6th & Clinton" all week in the auto. What a great record...funny, poignant, excellent musicianship and that smooth voice! Mandolin Moon...great stuff. Thanks for making it. Bob NP: Ryan Adams, "Cannonball Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:26:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Bring on the night - NJC <> That was such a good record, Vince...I remember when the Police threw in the towel, I said I couldn't wait for Sting's first solo record as I knew it would really kick. And I was right (that time). Bob NP: John Mayer, "No Such Thing" (totally irresistable; should be ALL OVER the radio) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:36:07 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" <> I'm with you, Julius, and that feeling flows throughout the whole record. "Clouds" is such a gorgeous record in its stark beauty like the music Gillian Welch makes these days. Many of the songs on Clouds are among my favorite all-time Joni tunes; Midway, I Think I Understand, Chelsea, Tin Angel...well, no sense naming them ALL! ;~) When I go to the beach each summer, there are always two CD's I take outside on the deck and play in their entirety, and just allow them to wash over me. Clouds is one (usually in the morning watching the sun come up over the sound) and Hejira (usually in the evening watching the sun retire). Speaking of IDKWIS, just got a sweet cover of it by a Singapore singer named Tanya Chua. It features an electric bassist who plays in Jaco-style, and she sounds pure-voiced like Joni as well, so it answers the musical question 'what would Joni & Jaco have sounded like in 1968?';~) Bob NP: John Mayer, "My Stupid Mouth" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:13:55 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: (bounced message) >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:48:23 +0100 >From: kezia@tiscali.it > >Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 10:12:36 -0800 > > From: Tara Lindsay > > This is my first post on this list. I've been a fan of Joni Mitchell since > >Hi Tara, and welcome. I'm Ilaria form Italy and unfortunately I have never >been to your country. I have a passion for Scotland, which I visited for >almost ten years in a row for my summer holidays. Edimburgh and its festival >are smashing!! > >Years ago, when I started a little research on Joni, I found a site, which >I lost track of, about somebody's memories, reporting this sentence as a >heading: >"There are two kinds of people in the world: those who find her depressing >and those who, already depressed, find her comforting" > >I liked it so much that I decided to use at the beginning of my concert, >which is (needless to say) a tribute to Joni. With a guitarrist and a >percussionist >I tried to give an idea of Joni's musical route. A song from each album >and a bit of her story. Our site is still in Italian, but you can download >our covers. >at www.selfi.supereva.it > > >Nice to talk to you!! >Till soon >Ilaria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:29:02 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy Birthday/Happy Mardi Gras/(NJC) A VERY Happy Birthday and many many more to our Darling Nikki. Hope you had a happy day. I spoke to you yesterday on the phone. You are working too hard. Hope you find time to party and celebrate the fact that you are getting old like the rest of us. Love Paz NP-My Winding Wheel-RA at Irving Plaza 10-03-01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:32:18 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) In a message dated 2/12/02 4:33:57 PM, JRMCo1 writes: << Dear Walt, I don't know much about chords and such, but dear God, I love this song and the feeling it evokes. I've always been enamored of how it takes place over the course of 24 hours. How love has made her sleepless in California, so to speak. How she metaphorically finishes writing the song as the morning comes up. How it's innocent and hopeful, but still imbued with melancholy and longing. How the lone guitar (or restrained piano, I'm sure) compliments the lyrics's sentiments, perfectly And of course, the allusions are beautiful: "braiding wild-flowers and leaves in my hair," "crickets call courting their ladies in star-dappled green," "I wrote 'I love you' in my finest hand." I going play Clouds as soon as I get home. Thanks for mentioning this song. - -Julius >> Julius, I feel the same way about the song -- the images are stunning and beautiful - -- but there's always that hesitation at the end of each verse (btw, I'm sure you already know this, but in the original, and in the published version of the song, it's "Carolina", not "California" -- she must have changed it as her focus switched from one coast to the other -- I know that in "Dr. Junk the Dentist Man", the story she tells before she sings it has the dentist in somewhere in one of the Carolinas as well. Hey, Joni historians -- do we know where she played in the Carolinas, did she spend an extended period of time there? -- clearly, she must have been charmed by the place, as who wouldn't be?) Anyway, back to the hesitation -- between that, and the musical sound of the beginning, I hear a connection between this song and Sunny Sunday. I don't have the sheet music to SunSun, and I don't know if they're in the same key ("Why don't you listen to them Walt?"), but the chord *progression* in the intros to the two songs sound very similar to me -- and one song shows a young woman in hesitation, and the other one shows a (presumably) mature woman stuck in a rut, stalled, and leaving the decision of whether to leave in the hands of a very unlikely "game" of chance. So the project I'm working on is a pastiche of these two songs, with flashbacks, of a woman stuck in a rut, looking back at a time when she perhaps *should* have been more decisive. And I'll connect the two via a third Joni song that already uses such a device, Harry's House/Centerpiece (with a few words changed). Here's the structure, as it stands now: A. The first verse of SunSun (hereafter just SS) to the line "She waits for the night to fall..." B. (to the tune of Harry's House) She thinks back to the memory Of her naivete in youth When the choices seemed so endless Had she only known the truth... C. First verse of IDKWIS, (scat bridge from the song) Skip to third verse of IDK, starting with "Telephone..." and ending with: "I guess it's too early, 'Cause I don't know where I stand." B. (Back to the melody of Harry's House, with these lyrics) In time her options dwindled Bad choices made in haste Or lost through indecision She shudders at the waste... A. (Back to SS, starting with the line:) Then she points a pistol... (to) She always misses... C. (abruptly to IDK) I know that I miss you, But I don't know where I stand. A. (and back to SS) She always misses But the day she hits, That's the day she'll leave... (etc. to the end of SS) First of all, I hope these musings don't ruin IDK for anyone -- I doubt it could -- or infuriate anyone who thinks Joni's lyrics should be left as is. Secondly, my apologies for not typing out all the words -- it would take up more space than I should take here, and I figure most of us either know the words, or can get them from CD inserts -- contact me offlist if you want the whole thing, I'll send it to you. But more importantly -- help me! I'm not much of a poet -- be Joni to my David Crosby in Yvette In English! -- if you think of a better phrasing, better words, please let me know -- feel free to post your suggestions (or scorn) to the whole list. Warmly, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:12:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: We Don't Know Where She Stood (Stayed), and my current project (long, again) <> First, I'm no Joni historian, I'll make that clear. But from all accounts she played some gigs at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC in '67. This was where she met "Killer Kyle" who pops up in Cactus Tree & Beat of Black Wings. Fayetteville is NOT charming. It's a Marine town, so it's filled with hookers, bars, pawn shops & etc. When I lived in Raleigh it was known as "Fayette-Nam". Anyway, I would guess that it was on this same southern swing that she ended up in FL playing where Crosby saw her. So it was a very eventful tour! ;~) As for Dr. Junk, I can't recall her exact words but I think she references that he lived in the mountains of NC, so that would be in the Asheville area. This may be where she was first exposed to the dulcimer, as the instrument is very popular there, both lap and hammer. Rambling, Bob NP: Kevin Gilbert, "Tea For One" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:30:03 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: men killing women (NJC) Mike Pritchard" ink08@hotmail.com wrote: >I'm writing an academic paper for a conference in October >on the theme of domestic violence and murder of women by >their husbands/lovers. Another one that comes to mind (as a classic 'crime of passion' song) is the Child ballad - Matty Groves. Sandy Denny with Fairport Convention did a great version of this on their Liege & Lief album. Matty Groves A holiday, a holiday, The first one of the year Lord Donald's wife came into church The gospel for to hear. And when the meeting it was done She cast her eyes about And there she saw little Matty Groves, Walking in the crowd. Come home with me Little Matty Groves, Come home with me tonight Come home with me Little Matty Groves And sleep with me till light''. Oh I can't come home, I won't come home And sleep with you tonight By the rings on your fingers I can tell you are my master's wife 'Tis true I am Lord Donald's wife, Lord Donald's not at home He is out in the far cornfields, Bringing the yearlings home. And a servant who was standing by And hearing what was said He swore Lord Donald he would know, Before the sun would set. And in his hurry to carry the news, He bent his breast and ran And when he came to the broad millstream He took off his shoes and swam Little Matty Groves, he lay down And took a little sleep When he awoke Lord Donald, Was standing at his feet Saying how do you like my feather bed And how do you like my sheets And how do you like my lady, Who lies in your arms asleep. Oh well I like your feather bed And well I like your sheets But better I like your lady gay Who lies in my arms asleep. Well Get Up! Get Up! Lord Donald cried, Get up as quick as you can It'll never be said in fair England I slew a naked man! Oh I can't get up, I won't get up, I can't get up for my life For you have two long beaten swords And I have but a pocket knife. Well it's true I have two beaten swords, They cost me deep in the purse But you will have the better of them And I will have the worse. And you will strike the very first blow And strike it like a man I will strike the very next blow And I'll kill you if I can. So Matty struck the very first blow And he hurt Lord Donald sore Lord Donald struck the very next blow And Matty struck no more. And then Lord Donald took his wife, He sat her on his knee Saying who do you like the best of us, Matty Groves or me? And then up spoke his own dear wife Never heard to speak so free I'd rather a kiss from dead Matty's lips Than you and your finery. Lord Donald he jumped up And loudly he did bawl He stuck his wife right through the heart And pinned her against the wall. A grave, a grave, Lord Donald cried, To put these lovers in But bury my lady at the top For she was of noble kin. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:57:43 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL Anybody else remember the series of skits on a *very* early Saturday Night Live, with John Belushi playing Beethoven, and (I think) Gilda Radner playing his wife? - --walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:04:28 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Diane Zeigler (was 'men killing women') NJC Anne anne@sandstrom.com wrote: >You might want to listen to Diane Zeigler's "Sting of >the Honeybee." How strange! Just after reading this today in the jmdl digest, I received a copy of the latest edition of the UK magazine Rock 'n' Reel in the post, and flipping through, immediately noticed a photo of Diane Zeigler above a great review of her album 'These Are the Roots', described as the "first since her 1995 debut for Philo, 'Sting of the Honeybee'." Other than noticing her name in Ashara's recent list of fave acoustic artists (along with Cheryl Wheeler, Cheryl Wheeler, etc!!), I don't think I'd ever heard of her before. Sounds like I need to get a copy for some reason. All the best PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:10:26 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) Bob said: <<"You Dream Flat Tires", a Joni tune I love (I'm in the minority, I think)>> - --but hardly alone -- I love the album, and that's one of the better songs on it! The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind... My lover at that time didn't like Joni much, nor that album -- but that one song, he liked. . -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:41:37 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Well, I'm coming to NYC but not to perform. Wouldn't want to follow a class act like Jeff & Kate anyway. ;~) > > I'll be there the weekend of April 27, with Saturday night open for a meet & greet with NY (and RI, MD, MA, CT, NJ & PA & ?) JMDLer's, so c'mon New Yawk, let's Pah-tay!! Great!!! I'll start resting up for your wildness now :-) Have you been here before? Anything in mind you'd like to see, do, hear? Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:34:06 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: CSNY touring....(njc) Just saw on TV that all four of 'em are touring together this spring (sorry if this has always been posted). They'll be here in the Bay Area (Oakland Arena) in early April. Thought in case y'all didn't know already I'd post it as soon as *I* heard it. - -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:43:14 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Men Killing Women NJC Mike Pritchard wrote: > Thanks again for all the suggestions for 'murder songs'. Id just like to > mention some points on this theme. Beware of taking the phrase 'hit me' > to mean violence. It can certainly be interpreted that way, especially when not talking about drinking or playing cards. It's the double meaning that is suspect to me in a song like "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" or "Hit Me Baby One More Time". Beware of discounting the double meaning. I may remember this incorrectly, but wasn't you original quest for songs that reinforce/excuse violence against women? If so, I don't really think 'Delilah' (lyrics below) fits that description. Whereas the killer in "Hey Joe" is unrepentant: 'yeah, I shot my old lady I caught her messing around with another man' the narrator in Delilah has fallen into a jealous rage, and in the end begs the dead girl for forgiveness "I just couldn't take any more" and waits without thought of flight for the police to arrive. It's a confession about a crime of passion and doesn't offer any excuses or justification. The line "she stood there laughing" tells about the moment when he totally lost it. Joe's may have been a crime of passion, too, but he seems to feel justified for what he did. But even this song can be seen as a piece of reporting ABOUT a killer and his attitude, not necessarily condoning the crime. I don't see anything (nor do I recall having read anything) that suggests that "Down By the River" is about a car. As someone said, Young's "Long May You Run" was written for one of his beloved cars. RR Delilah I saw the light on the night that I passed by her window I saw the flickering shadow of love on her blind She was my woman As she decieved me I watched and went out of my mind My my my Delilah Why why why Delilah I could see, that girl was no good for me But I was lost like a slave that no man could free At break of day when that man drove away I was waiting I crossed the street to her house and she opened the door She stood there laughing I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more My my my Delilah Why why why Delilah So before they come to break down the door Forgive me Delilah I just couldn't take any more Forgive me Delilah I just couldn't take any more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:46:11 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL NJC <> Sure...he segued from playing the intro to his Fifth Symphony to "My Girl". Classic. Bob NP: Kevin Gilbert, "Song For A Dead Friend" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:54:27 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = > "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind... I interpret it more as her saying "You sabatoge yourself". You can't get very far if your outlook is self defeating. Or specifically, in the context of the song, you are defeating any possibilities this promising relationship has with your negative attitude. You said it was precious when first you felt my fire before you dreamed flat tires you dream flat tires ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:58:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Beethoven and his deafness on SNL NJC It was actually a series of skits during that season. The one I remember has Belushi breaking into "What'd I Say" with Radner and Lorraine Newman joining in for the oohs and ahhs. SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > < Live, with John Belushi playing Beethoven, and (I think) Gilda Radner playing > his wife?>> > > Sure...he segued from playing the intro to his Fifth Symphony to "My Girl". Classic. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:06:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "You Dream Interesting Covers..." (sjc) <<--but hardly alone -- I love the album, and that's one of the better songs on it! The vivid, scathing sound to that statement: "You dream flat tires!" = "You only have boring, irritating dreams!", at least in my mind...>> It's a great use of the car metaphor as relationship (although done better by RLJ in "Last Chance Texaco"), I think in a nutshell what she's saying is that the guy is not very ambitious in the relationship, that he's happy with just a "flirtation" while she desires it to be "extra special company". It could just be a Venus & Mars thing... Mostly I just love the way the music pulses...you get the feeling that Joni was enjoying the return to more straightforward rhythms after Mingus. Bob NP: Shelby Lynne, "Jesus On A Greyhound" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:13:34 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Chat room and a request Joniphiles - I'd like to remind everyone that, after a few technical problems, the JMDL Chat Room is alive and well and can be found at http://www.jmdl.com/chat.cfm. Also, here's an update on the list membership (not accounting for those on more than one list): Joni list: 91 members (11.4%) Joni-digest: 490 members (61.5%) Joni-only: 42 members (5.3%) Joni-only digest: 173 members (21.7%) Total members: 796 Being the nerdy analytical type that I am, I notice that the census is down from a few months ago and that the percentage of Joni-only people is up. Leading me (arguably erroneously) to conclude that the signal-to-noise ratio is affecting the statistics. Thus... here's my request of everyone... Please take a moment to proofread your posts before you send them and decide whether the post should be sent to the entire list or would be better aimed just at a specific individual. I personally feel there are a lot of posts (responses to the birthday announcements, 'me-too's, etc...) that would be much better left off the list and sent to the individual. Thanks everyone! Les NP: Kasey Chambers "If I Were You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:17:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Gawwwly - Gomer goes to New York (NJC) <> Never have been, Debra. I'm slated to see 'The Crucible' Saturday (2PM matinee) (with Laura Linney & Liam Neeson). I'll be hanging with JMDL'er & fellow cover-maniac Stephen Elliott, who's definitely up for JMDL adventures. Assuming Laura doesn't want to run away with me, my schedule above & beyond that is pretty much open! Is there anything interesting to do in New York? LOL! I could probably spend all weekend just going through record stores! ;~) Bob NP: Shelby Lynne, "Ain't It The Truth" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:09 +0000 From: Howard Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" Hi all, Just had a quick play through on the guitar to figure out the chord names. Here's what I reckon (based on Sue's chords from the jmdl guitar site): NB: I use "b" for flat, and distinguish "add9" from "9". I've also put the chord spelling in brackets after the chord name in case there are any ambiguities. These chords are in the actual key of the recording (F) - hope you can transpose them down to the key of D OK. Intro: - ------- x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) Verse: - ------- 999999 = Dadd9 (1 3 5 9) 777777 = Cadd9 (1 3 5 9) 999999 = Dadd9 (1 3 5 9) 000033 = F9(no 3rd) (1 5 7 9) 555555 = Bbadd9 (1 3 5 9) x44030 = Am7 (1 b3 5 7) x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) Scat section: - -------------- 444444 = Aadd9 (1 3 5 9) 222222 = Gadd9 (1 3 5 9) x55040 = Bbm6add9 (1 b3 6 9) x22010 = Gmadd4 (1 b3 4) 000210 = Fadd4 (1 3 4 5) 000200 = F (1 3 5) 000000 = Fadd9 (1 3 5 9) The Fadd4/F/Fadd9 sequence has some very subtle changes - not sure how to tackle this on the piano. It might work better to play Fsus4 to F (1 4 5 to 1 3 5) - the dissonance you get with the Fadd4 chord (3rd against the 4th) is nice, but you barely hear it in the original. Howard BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > > Anyhoo, using "@" for "flat" (e.g., B@ means B-flat), and using "9" loosely > to mean "add 2" (so C9 could mean either C-D-E-G or C-E-G-D[octave]), here's > what I got: > > Intro: > > E@dim/D@... D@sus4...2...4 D@9...2...4...D@9 > (repeat) > B@9... > > [B@9] Funny day, looking for laughter and > > [A@9] finding it there > > [B@9] Sunny day, braiding wildflowers and > > [A@m] leaves in my > > [A@m7/D@] hair [-->A@m6/D@] > > [G@9] Picked up a pencil and > > [G@m9] wrote I love you > > [D@9] in my finest hand > > [G@m9] I wanted to send it, but I > > [E@dim(7)] don't know where I > > [D@9] stand [D@sus4...2..4..D@9] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:48:35 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: LA in the '60s (NJC) Sorry I took so long on this - the day job is doing me in! Gil wrote: >I wish I *had* kept a list. But I remember seeing Spirit at the >Whiskey, and The Doors at the Forum (preceded by Sweetwater and >Jerry Lee Lewis; Jerry Lee got booed off stage for declaring that >country would replace rock'n'roll) Kakki! He said the "S" word! Gil - Kakki and I are both big Sweetwater fans. You are now member number 3 of the JMDL Sweetwater fan club. A great one-album band...there later stuff went off badly... - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:01:29 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gawwwly - Gomer goes to New York or maybe the Stone Pony (NJC) In a message dated 2/13/02 4:19:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Is there anything interesting to do in New York? LOL! I could probably spend > all weekend just going through record stores! ;~) > Or...you can come to Noo Jersey and I'll take ya to the Stone Pony;) don't forget to sign the save the Pony petition!!! http://savethestonepony.com/ rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:30:24 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2002 Logo Just a reminder that tomorrow is the deadline for all entries for the Jonifest 2002 Logo Design contest! Please send all entries in by tomorrow at midnight EST. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:35:54 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: The S Word (NJC) Steve wrote: >Gil wrote: > >>I wish I *had* kept a list. But I remember seeing Spirit at the Whiskey, >>and The Doors at the Forum (preceded by Sweetwater and Jerry Lee Lewis; >>Jerry Lee got booed off stage for declaring that country would replace >>rock'n'roll) BTW, it seems as if Sweetwater made a career as the opening act. They were the first ones on stage at Woodstock, too. >Kakki! He said the "S" word! Gil - Kakki and I are both big >Sweetwater fans. You are now member number 3 of the JMDL Sweetwater >fan club. Where's my membership card? my T-shirt? my CD of Sweetwater covers? >A great one-album band...there later stuff went off >badly... That same old pattern. There's no failure like success ... Gil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:41:48 -0800 From: The New Guy Subject: Re: LA in the '60s (NJC) At 02:48 PM 2/13/02, you wrote: >Sorry I took so long on this - the day job is doing me in! > >Gil wrote: > >>I wish I *had* kept a list. But I remember seeing Spirit at the Whiskey, >>and The Doors at the Forum (preceded by Sweetwater and Jerry Lee Lewis; >>Jerry Lee got booed off stage for declaring that country would replace >>rock'n'roll) > >Kakki! He said the "S" word! Gil - Kakki and I are both big >Sweetwater fans. You are now member number 3 of the JMDL Sweetwater >fan club. A great one-album band...there later stuff went off >badly... Yeah, but did they ever play at the Sweetwater Cafe in Redondo Beach? Dirk Hamilton did, with either Canned Heat or George Thorogood -- wish *I* had kept a list... Warmest regards, Nick N/P: A Bird's Nest In Your Hair - Bob Dylan Trade Stuff: http://www.boootlegs.com/ Text Only Pages: http://www.boootlegs.com/bootxt01.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:32:18 -0800 From: The New Guy Subject: Weylon Jennings and Dave Van Ronk in one week (NJC) The originals are dropping like flies. What a bummer. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:06:06 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: the apes njc Just made the mistake of buying "Planet of the Apes" on ppv. What a disaster. Tim Burton should leave the action genre alone. Too bad they didn't get Jim Cameron to do it. All the anticipation was left unsatisfied. Even the human, touching moments weren't done well. The original movie was no masterpiece, by any means, but it was a cinematic diamond compared to this mess. The only good point was the ending. And to top it all off, no marky mark skin. That would have brought in another 5 million alone. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:20:52 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: CSNY touring....(njc) Yea Walt and you will have to mortgage yer Joni collection to be able to afford tickets. I can't believe how expensive they are. The boys are taking alot of flak about it too, even on their own fan list The Lee Shore. There was a blurb in Rolling Stone last week too trashing them about how shameless they are for ticket prices. Best Paz NP-The Olympics on 2/13/02 12:34 PM, BigWaltinSF@aol.com at BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > Just saw on TV that all four of 'em are touring together this spring (sorry > if this has always been posted). They'll be here in the Bay Area (Oakland > Arena) in early April. Thought in case y'all didn't know already I'd post > it as soon as *I* heard it. > > -- walt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:17:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: LOVE! njc HAPPY ST VALENTINE'S EVERYBODY!!!!!! wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:31:19 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@snet.net Subject: Re: McSmurfie's Park NJC last time your left the teeth IN the Depends .... be careful this time ;-) heather >Now where did I put my teeth and those Depends . . . > >XO, > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:45:03 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Kate & Jeff @ The Living Room (NJC) I wish I could have been in NYC for this monumentous occasion. I would love to come up there and play with you guys (even though my personal mantra is 70 degrees or south), but I would have to write some originals and put out a record and I am just having too much fun playing other peoples music right now. Peace Michael on 2/13/02 3:44 AM, Gregg Cagno at greggno@hotmail.com wrote: > A fine set by the Santa Barbara contingent of the JMDL. > Kate & Jeff warmed up NYC with voice, guitar, groove and feel. > A perfect room for an intimate sound. Thanks for bringing us a nice taste of > California guys! > > Good to see Rosey (as always) and Kay there too supporting our buds. > > OK who's next??? Paz?? > > Come freeze in the great Northeast ;) > > GC ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #73 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?