From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #72 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 13 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 072 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Men killing women (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: (njc) Re: Mongolian Stir-fry ["hell" ] Joni titles in Library of Congress catalog [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni's piano - cover art [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Men killing women (NJC) ["Johnson Victor" ] Re: Joni titles in Library of Congress catalog [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) ["Mary E. Pita] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Dylan Question, NJC ["Laurent Olszer" ] NJC Altman/Oscars [Vince Lavieri ] violence against women in song (NJC) [Dave Cuneo ] Re: men killing women/misogyny in rap/new email address njc [music@codeta] CSNY article in Uncut ["Rob Ettridge" ] RE: Men killing women NJC [Tyler Hewitt ] Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) ["Sybil Sk] My Flexible Friends (Covers content - longish) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: long & somewhat technical) [BigWal] (njc) Check out "Welcome to the White House - WWW.WHITEHOUSE.ORG" [BigWal] feb 12!!!!!!!njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) [Randy Rem] Feb 12th (NJC) [Scott and Jody ] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc [Alison E ] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc [anne@sandstrom.com] Joni's Guitars Soon up for Sale at Westwood Music? [Lindsay Moon ] Re: Joni's Guitars Soon up for Sale at Westwood Music? ["Sharon L. Buffin] Re: Dylan question NJC [Ted Greenwald ] Haypp Birthday, Nikki! njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: long & somewhat technical) [Catherine McKay ] Joni in fiction ["kerry" ] MANY Men killing women/(NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Bring on the night - NJC [Vince Lavieri ] men killing women NJC ["kerry" ] Re: was Chords/font for musical symbols NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: Jonifest videos NJC [Scott and Jody ] Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Kate and Jeff in NYC [NJC] [dsk ] Kate & Jeff's gig tonight [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: turbulent indigo njc ["Dolphie Bush" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 03:05:44 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Although I have to wonder . . . how >disturbing would thunder be to a deaf man! Thunder, if it's loud enough, can cause vibrations in buildings and the ground itself that will certainly be felt even if not heard. But aside from this, very few deaf people are completely deaf, especially if they once were hearing and then went deaf, as Beethoven did. Most deaf people hear muted, muffled sounds, just as many blind people can see gradations of indistinct light. In an otherwise questionable biopic on Beethoven, IMMORTAL BELOVED, one thing I thought they did get right was the portrayal of his deafness (although obviously no one could know exactly what things sounded like to him). It was a very muffled and confusing swirl of sounds ... extremely disorienting to the viewer, not to mention to the subject. Nuriel Tobias wrote: >"Strike every chord that you feel" because you're deaf, >and to deaf ears there's no wrong chord. As I wrote recently in the discussion about musical literacy, music is in the head, and that's how Beethoven could continue to compose even though his ears couldn't fully receive the sound waves. So it's not that he could accept any chord because he couldn't hear it, but rather that Beethoven was an iconoclast who challenged traditional harmonic practice. If it "sounded" good to him in his head, if he felt it, then screw convention. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:59:37 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! FredNow@aol.com wrote: "Strike every chord that you feel" because you're deaf, and to deaf ears there's no wrong chord. "As I wrote recently in the discussion about musical literacy, music is in the head, and that's how Beethoven could continue to compose even though his ears couldn't fully receive the sound waves. So it's not that he could accept any chord because he couldn't hear it, but rather that Beethoven was an iconoclast who challenged traditional harmonic practice. If it "sounded" good to him in his head, if he felt it, then screw convention." Surely you didn't think i was talking about Beethoven striking the wrong chord, Fred? I was talking about "The person" in Joni's song. I fully understand your saying regarding "music is in the head". And in a way i agree. But as far as i know, deaf people, who were born deaf, didn't compose music (and if it happenes these days it's because rules to composing music in modern times are wide open). It all begins in HEARING music, then comes to composing. All great composers heard music, needless to say. Only then could they relate to notes on paper and "hear music in their heads". Beethoven wasn't happy at all when music turned into "a head thing" only for him. Do you think that if everyone in the whole world, both composers and listeners, could read notes and hear "head music" they wouldn't need ears? I don't. What if Joni went deaf, perish the thought? Do you think she'd have no idea what her music wuold sound like? Again, i don't. I'm sorry, but saying that music is in the head may be true, but it's a part of the whole truth - if there is any. Nuriel > >-Fred Simon _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:26:31 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Men killing women (NJC) Sherelle wrote: > I know you already have your fill of songs, but one song that comes to mind > is Neil Young's "Down By The River." The chorus goes: "Down by the river...I > shot my baby..Shot my baby dead..." I don't quite get the song, but those > lyrics seem pretty obvious. Others have also mentioned this song. Somewhere in the recesses of my brain (a dark and scary place), I seem to have heard somewhere that this song is actually about a car - I may well be wrong, god knows, it's happened before! But the first verse is: Be on my side, I'll be on your side, There's no reason for us to hide, It's so hard for me staying here all alone, When you could be taking me for a ride. It kind of makes sense? If it is true, it doesn't really fit the "men killing women" theme. Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:30:05 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: (njc) Re: Mongolian Stir-fry Marian wrote: > In 1986 when I was in Copenhagen, Denmark, for a conference, we were taken > out one night for dinner at the Mongolian BBQ. It was just as described - > you picked out your own ingredients - vegies, meat, sauce - and the cooks > (there were several) prepared it for you. They used a flat grill surface > though - like for making hamburgers in a restaurant. It was the tastiest > "stir-fry" I have ever had. I'm glad to know such places exist in other > parts of the world as I would like to eat such a meal again someday. And you can go to a Mongolian restaurant in New Zealand too! It is kind of fun, choosing all your ingredients, and watching the nice man cook it with chopsticks a metre long. But no matter how many times I've been, everything ends up tasting the same! Nice, but the same - no matter how much I vary the veges, sauces, etc. Still, worth a visit for the entertainment factor - especially when you get the chef-in-training, who, with a flourish of his chopsticks, sweeps your dinner onto the floor instead of into your bowl! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:19:47 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Joni titles in Library of Congress catalog Any info on the folllowing disks that are retrieved under an author search for Joni Mitchell? Big Ball Spring Songs: live concert Possible source of covers: Full Eclipse Records presents Leo Collignon (BB and Holding CO. guy??) You Sing Joni Mitchell (Power of Cheese vol. II??) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:33:36 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in fiction In a message dated 12/02/02 04:05:55 GMT Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 10:12:36 -0800 > From: Tara Lindsay > Subject: Joni in fiction > > Hi, > > This is my first post on this list. I've been a fan of Joni Mitchell since > when I was > about ten and shared a room with my big sister who listened to Hejira > constantly. > Two books I read recently had Joni references - > The Hissing Of The Silent Room by Paul Charles > Who Will Run the Frog Hospital by Lorrie Moore > Hope this is what you were looking for. > > bye for now, > Tara (in Dublin,Ireland) > Hi Tara, It's good to hear from you. I visited Dublin for the first time a couple of weeks ago and thought it a lovely city. We stayed near St Stephens Green and met up with Garret who introduced us to one or two bars and told us a bit about the place. He told me Joni played Dublin in the early 80s. Don't suppose you were there were you? Anyway, I've never read either of the books you mention so I'll be putting them on my reading list! Nick Hornby's "About a Boy" is the only book I can think of with Joni content. They are making a film of it which will be interesting. Best wishes Jacky (in England) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:03:32 +0200 From: "Ron Greer" Subject: Re: accents NJC Hi a blonde haired canadian singer goes off to australia to be on holday alone. while in one of the small villages, a elderly couple notices her sitting there all on her own. the wife nudges her husband to go over & be sociable. he protests that he doesnt know what to say, & she suggests that he just ask where shes from, & just take it from there. so he walks over, & greets her, then asks her "so where you from?". "saskatoon, saskatchewan" she says. he looks at her blankly, then walks back to his wife. his wife asks "so where's she from" the husband replies' "dunno, she doesnt speak english" ron (the joke works a lot better in accents) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:30:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's piano - cover art <> Michaelo, you're right - the piano pics are rare as hen's teeth. There's a guy who has a nice shot of her at the piano, he sells the pic on E-Bay, you can probably get it for 12-15 bucks. But then you'd have to be able to scan it and all. I'll shuffle through what I've got and see if I have something you can use. Bob NP: David Wilcox, "Johnny's Camaro" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 8:32:13 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: Re: Men killing women (NJC) > Others have also mentioned this song. Somewhere in the recesses of my brain > (a dark and scary place), I seem to have heard somewhere that this song is > actually about a car - "Long May You Run", also by Neil Young was written about a car so maybe that's the case for this song as well. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:35:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni titles in Library of Congress catalog <> <> This was one of the Warner Brother's "Loss Leaders" sampler compilation records. I think "Chelsea Morning" is the selection on it, but don't hold me to that. <> This is a 2-LP vinyl bootleg of Joni's concert in Durham NC in '74. Incomplete and very poor sound. Hope that helps. Bob NP: David Wilcox, "East Asheville Hardware" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:36:55 -0600 From: "Mary E. Pitassi" Subject: Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) Randy Remote wrote: "The flip side of these songs is the Dixie Chick's "Earl Had To Die" in which an abused woman and friend decide to kill the batterer...and it turns out that Earl is a "missing person that nobody missed".... great video with NYPD's Dennis Franz as Earl. RR" The first time I heard this song, I was in my car, on the highway that circles the city of Madison, and I almost ran off the road. Indeed, not only was Earl a "missing person that nobody missed at all," but the police gave up on Earl's disappearance after a perfunctory investigation, and the two women spent the rest of their lives happily selling jam at the roadside to everyone in their community. Apparently, this was a concept of justice that all there could live with quite comfortably, under the circumstances. Contrast the response of law enforcement in that song to Tracy Chapman's "Behind the Wall," from her first album, _Tracy Chapman_ (1988): "Last night I heard the screaming Loud voices behind the wall Another sleepless night for me It won't do no good to call The police Always come late When they come at all." In this song, sung from the perspective of a concerned but frustrated neighbor, the police finally do come when the abused woman is beaten to a pulp and has to be removed from the scene by ambulance. At that point, the cops tell the crowd to disperse, because, ironically, "I think we all could use some sleep." However, Mike, you might want to take note that the Dixie Chicks song is part of a new breed in which women fight back in some way against male violence--or, from another perspective, perhaps mete out vigilante justice, after "the law" steadfastly refuses to do anything when the woman is actually being abused. Martina McBride's "Independence Day," from a few years back, comes to mind. If I remember correctly, the woman in that song, the mother of the little girl from whose perspective the song is sung, burns down her abuser's house. Interestingly, both of these images of women fighting back--in both instances, with additional violence, however well-justified individual listeners may regard it--come from country music. Mary P. P.S. Going back to Mike's original question, another example might be Pat Benatar's "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" from around 1984, in which the protagonist sounds spunky and feisty, but tells her partner to "fire away." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:40:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) A collaborative tag-team parody that starts with me, takes a sidetrip through New Orleans in drag and ends with a gay valentine. Color me impressed! :~) Bob, who ALWAYS gets plenty of sleep, unless it's Jonifest time... NP: David Wilcox, "Dangerous" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:50:59 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Dylan Question, NJC Actually I've always wondered too why Dylan became so popular. I don't have the answer. The reasons that were given are good but there's one small problem: that is how do you explain his popularity OUTSIDE the U.S.. I mean in countries with no Vietnam war, different social problems altogether and in which the "messages" wouldn't be understood the same way if at all. I know that in France hardly anybody pays any attention to song lyrics in english, yet they love Dylan too. You may say that the rest of the world just follows the US lead but I don't think this is necessarily true. So the mystery remains ???? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:55:08 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Altman/Oscars Oscars announced this morning - I am so happy that Robert Aktman got nominated for Best Director, and Best Movie, and Maggie Smith and Helen Mirren, both Best Supporting Actress, for Gosfield Park - as a life long Altman fan,. I am pleased.. I als note only 3 films in both Best Director and Best Movie - one of these three will be the best picture: Gosfield Park, Beautiful Mind, and Lord of the Rings. And now to work (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:20:34 -0500 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: violence against women in song (NJC) Ciao, How about Steely Dan's "Gaslighting Abbey"? From "Two Against Nature". Big Joni fan since 1975. Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:40:53 -0800 From: music@codetalk.net Subject: Re: men killing women/misogyny in rap/new email address njc On 11 Feb 2002 at 9:56, Bree Mcdonough wrote: But I think the place for your research > would be rap music......this would be the place to look. IMO,there is a lot > of misogyny going on there. > Just as there is in rock and other popular music, as evidenced by the list of songs submitted in answer to the original question. (Funny, no other rap artist was mentioned except Eminem...) Violent or misogynistic lyrics in rap music appear in a subgenre of the music - largely made popular by suburban white kids looking for their "punk rock" rebellion. Rap music as a whole is so much more than that and to generalize about the music in that way is unfair and unfortunate. If anyone is truly interested in learning about the music outside of the Eminem's and Jay-Z's of the world, let me know and I'll happily send you a mix CD. Brenda Oh yeah....I have a new email address (for anyone interested) - music@codetalk.net. Was getting wild amounts of Korean spam at my old one. n.p.: Norah Jones - Don't Know Why (She's fantastic!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:08:47 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: CSNY article in Uncut This month's Uncut (Take 58, March 2002) magazine has a big article on CSNY in it. I haven't had a chance to read it all yet, but flicking through, I noticed there's a sub-article on Joni: LADIES OF THE CANYON - CSNY AND CUPID'S ARROW "We've cancelled a lot of studio time because of women troubles," said Graham Nash. "Women are the most important thing in the world, next to music." For the world's hardest-lovin' supergroup, it was sometimes a tough price to pay. Uncut checks out two marrow-thrilling chanteuses... Joni Mitchell Dumped by The Byrds in 1967, David Crosby set sail in his beloved 60ft schooner, The Mayan, for Coconut Grove, Florida to revisit the scenes of his folkie days. One night, he stepped into the Gaslight South coffee house. "When I walked into that coffee house in Florida, man," Crosby tells Uncut, "Joni was singing one of those songs, you know, like 'Michael From The Mountains', 'Both Sides Now', one of those songs. And it just slapped me up against the back wall. I didn't even try to take a seat, I just leaned back against the wall and looked at her. I'd never heard anybody that good, playing tunings like that. I didn't know anybody who could write songs that well or sing like that and I immediately had a crush on her as well. She's still probably the best singer/songwriter in the world. She's as a good a poet as Dylan is, and 10 times the musician he'll ever be. Far more sophisticated than Dylan." Crosby brought her back to Los Angeles with him, producing her debut LP, Song To A Seagull, and they became lovers. When Graham Nash was taken ill at Crosby's house, Joni took him home for some TLC and romance blossomed. Crosby, a subscriber to the hippy ethic of 'non-ownership', poured his love into his other squeeze, Christine Hinton. Nash and Mitchell's love nest at the foot of Lookout Mountain in Laurel Canyon was immortalised in the former's "Our House" (the theme for Halifax's TV ads). In turn, Joni wrote the Nash-bound love ditty, "Willy", in 1969. Although inspired by Christine Hinton, Crosby admitted that his "Guinnevere" was partly for Joni. He later described life with her as "like falling into a cement mixer. She's a very turbulent girl." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:15:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tyler Hewitt Subject: RE: Men killing women NJC I agree with the Joan Armatrading song which is indeed catchy and disturbing (and mentions women beating men, not men killing women), but "Luka" is about child abuse (Luka in the song is a little boy). There were a few child abuse songs in the '80's. In addition to Luka, there was "What's the Matter Here" by 10000 Maniacs, and Dirty Blvd. by Lou Reed. Probably others as well. As for men killing women songs (what a thread!) has anyone mentioned Hey Joe? There's also a really frightening track on Prince's Black Album titled GeorgreBob (I think thats the title) about domestic violence. RE: There's also: "Luka" by Suzanne Vega (big hit) "(I Love It When You) Call Me Names" by Joan Armatrading(which is deceptively catchy...very disturbing, actually) Reuben Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:19:13 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC Kakki wrote: >Gil wrote: > > > There's a wonderful restaurant in L.A., The Gardens of Taxco (Tassco), >that > > offers Mexican "home cooking" on a menu that has only a dozen entrees. A > > girlfriend and I spent a year working through all variations of the meal > > (the carne asada was best). As I recall, the meal began with a miniature > > chicken quesadilla, smothered in cheese and guacamole; albondigas soup; > > soft taco; entree with rice and refried beans that tasted like walnut > > puree; and for dessert bananas in heavy cream and a glass of sherry. >Heavenly. > >Yes! A friend took me for this exact meal there a few years ago (although I >think we had two pitchers of margaritas instead of the sherry). They've >been around forever and I don't think anything - the staff, decor, menu - >has changed there in years I went back there after about 5 years and even the parking valet remembered me. One of the occasional delights of dining at The Gardens of Taxco is some celebrity spotting, usually at the discreet these-people-are-everywhere level. Gil NP: River, from Joni's HITS (in the cardboard digipak) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:21:11 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) "the Dixie Chicks song is part of a new breed in which women fight back in some way against male violence--or, from another perspective, perhaps mete out vigilante justice, after "the law" steadfastly refuses to do anything when the woman is actually being abused." This reminded me of a something I read a while back. A year or so ago, the local paper here (Dallas Morning News) did a multi issue feature on domestic violence. In one of the stories, the reporter had gathered local police statistics for the previous year and made a surprising discovery. It seems that of all the "domestic disturbance" type calls the police had handled, well over 90 percent of the victims were female - nothing surprising there. However, in looking at just the incidents involving homocide, 70 percent of the victims were male! The reporter observed that even the law enforcement people helping on the story were shocked. Now, of course, there are various reasons why this statistic would be skewed, and I'm well aware of how easy it is to lie with statistics. But I still found this a rather interesting nugget. I would be interested if this is a isolated thing that just happened that one year in this one place, or does it indicate some kind of trend. Sybil _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:27:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: My Flexible Friends (Covers content - longish) My never-ending search for Joni covers has given me lots of fun contacts. I mentioned a week or so ago about a German jazz trio named "My Flexible Friends". I was excited about their CD as they've done a cover of "You Dream Flat Tires", a Joni tune I love (I'm in the minority, I think), and the only YDFT cover I'm aware of! Anyway, thanks to Helga my interpreter, the CD is on its way...I asked Birgit (the vocalist) how they came to select this song to cover, here's her response which I thought some of might find enjoyable: "Let me tell you that we (my flexible friends) once were two musicians, the bass player and me, the voice. We made music together for some years with a jazzband and with a showband (Top 40 and (for us) horrible things like that, but good music often does not bring lots of money, you know...) One day we did one more soundcheck for a boring gig, and there was that incredible room in a museum where we had the gig, and the other musicians except the bassman and me weren4t ready. The bass player started to play some notes of another Joni Mitchell song called MOON AT THE WINDOW, and I began to sing, and it sounded so very strong and good, and we looked at each other and I think we both knew that we had found something new at this moment. It was a moment four years ago, and still we do that song on stage but we don4t have a good studio version . These days we play the song with our third man, the drummer, There are just 2 J.M. songs in our program, Joni is too unusual to cover lots of her songs, we tried to play her phantastic version of Goodbye Pork Pie H. but we almost despaired ... ... So I hope you will enjoy our music, it is a very good feeling to know that our little CD will be in the USA (WOW), all you will hear we did on our own without a label or a manager or a producer or anyone else, except the man who recorded the songs. Tell us if you like it, and even tell us if you don4t because we want to know why, I4m serious!" All I can say is I'm pretty jacked to hear it... Bob NP: Dylan, "Honest With Me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:04:11 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: long & somewhat technical) Hi, all, This may the wrong place to post this -- please let me know if it should go to some other list at jmdl -- but I wanted, in the meantime, for it to have the broadest possible exposure, for feedback. Also: Howard, Marion, Steve - -- I don't have e-mail addresses for Sue McN. or Mark D., and I'd especially like to thank Sue for her transciption in the jmdl guitar tablasture database, without which I couldn't have gotten started -- I'd appreciate your feedback, if you have the time and patience to look over this transcription, and please ask Sue and Mark to contact me off-list if they wouldn't mind exchanging ideas and/or feedback from my musical ramblings. Yesterday was the first time I had the time to sit at a piano and, starting with a guitar tablature transcription for a song, work it out on the piano. (Just to make my life more difficult, I also transposed the song to a key I could, um, imitate singing in) I decided on IDKWIS partly because I've always loved the song, and the published PVG transcription really sucks, and I'm working on a project that would entail my getting it down. [If anyone's intrigued with my choice of key, it's partly to place the song in my spectacular one-third-of-an-octave singing range, but also (remembering our thread about synesthesia from some months back, Hell and Sherelle and several other people?) because the "flat" keys that I've used below give me impressions of various shades of blue, green and purple which seem appropriate to me for the song.] Anyhoo, using "@" for "flat" (e.g., B@ means B-flat), and using "9" loosely to mean "add 2" (so C9 could mean either C-D-E-G or C-E-G-D[octave]), here's what I got: Intro: E@dim/D@... D@sus4...2...4 D@9...2...4...D@9 (repeat) B@9... [B@9] Funny day, looking for laughter and [A@9] finding it there [B@9] Sunny day, braiding wildflowers and [A@m] leaves in my [A@m7/D@] hair [-->A@m6/D@] [G@9] Picked up a pencil and [G@m9] wrote I love you [D@9] in my finest hand [G@m9] I wanted to send it, but I [E@dim(7)] don't know where I [D@9] stand [D@sus4...2..4..D@9] I haven't worked out the "scat bridge" part yet, but I figure it's just a matter of time. I *really* welcome any feedback, and apologize again if this is the wrong venue. (Oh -- and does anyone know how to get a Mac to put out a "flat" sign, and while we're at it, a "natural" sign -- "sharp" is taken care of, of course.) My apologies to those for whom this stuff is as much fun as calculus, but I find working these things out are like solving a puzzle... or doing calculus (I was a math teacher in an earlier life) Thanks, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:36:02 EST From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: (njc) Check out "Welcome to the White House - WWW.WHITEHOUSE.ORG" Click Here: Welcome to the White House - WWW.WHITEHOUSE.ORG [I especially like the first lady's tips on how to make decoupage out of your useless Enron stock... -- walt] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:25:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: feb 12!!!!!!!njc H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y N I K K I you wicked child you! wally and the JMDL BEE EPH ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:28:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Men killing women/law enforcement/women fighting back(NJC) Before we totally beat this subject into the ground (sorry), I want to mention Britney Spears' (first?) big smash, "Hit Me Baby One More Time". I found it incredibly strange that a singer who was an icon for millions of young girls could put out a statement that could be taken as an invitation to violence, and not have ANY (that I am aware of) media question the possible message being presented. Kinda Wierd. RR "Mary E. Pitassi" wrote: > the Dixie Chicks song is part of a new breed in which women fight > back in some way against male violence--or, from another perspective, > perhaps mete out vigilante justice, > P.S. Going back to Mike's original question, another example might > be Pat Benatar's "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" from around 1984, in > which the protagonist sounds spunky and feisty, but tells her partner > to "fire away." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:05:40 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Feb 12th (NJC) Hey Johnson!!! Happy Birthday Nikki !!!!!! Hope you are having a great day! !!!!!! love, jody and scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:02:11 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc HAPPY BIRTHDAY NIKKI! i miss you! i love you! i wish we could still go to concerts together. i know you are probably swamped with much schoolwork and research work, but i hope you take the time to have a lovely coke and amaretto (ptooey!) ;-) love and birthday hugs, alison np: david wilcox - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > N I K K I > you wicked child you! Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:03:40 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc In a message dated 2/12/2002 3:26:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > > N I K K I > I second that emotion (or 3rd since Jody sent one first). Have a super day my love child! Jimmy DBF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc Happy birthday Nikki!!!!!! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:33:52 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Joni's Guitars Soon up for Sale at Westwood Music? While searching Westwood Music's site for the correct spelling of Freddy Walecki's name (I'm transcribing the KCRW interview where Joni explains how she learned about the VG-8), I read through the "About Westwood Music" section. After several mentions of Joni (and a misspelling of Graham Nash's first name!), at the end they refer to a section called "store pals," which I was hoping would have a Joni picture or two (but I never found the section). I did find under "Collections" however, that Joni is shown as having 6 electric and acoustic guitars coming up for sale ... it says only "Coming Soon." Now *there* would be a purchase! Thought some of you might like to know. Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:26:16 -0800 From: Ted Greenwald Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC Someone mentioned "Run For Your Life" by the Beatles. John cribbed the "I'd rather see you dead" line from "Baby Let's Play House" by Elvis Presley. Not sure where El got it. There's an excellent Richard Thompson song called "Killing Jar" that clearly blames the narrator's murder of his sweetheart ("I hit her with a log chain and I put her in the ground") on his low self-esteem. The man-kills-his-woman theme runs through lots of blues songs, if I'm not mistaken. At least a few of them say something to the effect that "the day you leave me, baby, is the day you die." Dylan covered one of these on his album "Good As I Been To You." Best, Ted - -- - ------------------ Ted Greenwald senior editor Wired Magazine 520 3rd Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.276.4974 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:44:16 -0600 From: "Sharon L. Buffington" Subject: Re: Joni's Guitars Soon up for Sale at Westwood Music? Dear Lindsay: WOW!! I would love to have any one of those guitars. Like who would not? What a treasure to own something Joni made music on. Of course I would probably not be able to afford the insurance. What a great find Lindsay. Peace.....Sharon Lindsay Moon wrote: I did find under "Collections" however, that Joni is > shown as having 6 electric and acoustic guitars coming up for sale ... it > says only "Coming Soon." Now *there* would be a purchase! > > Thought some of you might like to know. > > Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:47:14 -0800 From: Ted Greenwald Subject: Re: Dylan question NJC Sybil wrote: >Recently, my 18 year old son posed a simple question to me for which I >really didn't have an answer, but it did set me to thinking. We were on a >long car trip during the holidays, and I put on a Dylan tape - Greatest Hits >I. My son has very good taste in pop music ("Neil Young is the MAN") and he >appreciates Dylan. But he brought up an interesting point, at least to me. >He asked me why Dylan became "like, so famous". My erudite response...Well, >just listen to it. Doh! > >I guess to a young person Dylan looks like a very unlikely rock star - not >particularly attractive, strange vocal style, little to no personality. Was >it right time, right place, right person? Or is there more to it? During >Dylan's early career I was just a pre-adolescent wee thing totally consumed >by Beatlemania, so I really don't rememer what impact he made back then. First, he was a charismatic performer and personality and a great songwriter, as well as a voice of moral authority; it's worth going back to his first two albums to hear just how strong he was out of the gate. More important, Dylan introduced to pop music three hugely influential ideas: 1) singing voices could sound individual rather than conventional, 2) popular song lyrics could be compared to poetry, 3) finesse doesn't matter. These ideas inspired countless musicians to follow in his footsteps, including artists of incomparable stature like the Beatles. In addition, he established the notion of the lone-wolf visionary in popular music - not a band, not a heart-throb front man. He became the prototypical singer/songwriter (even though he was imitating Woody Guthrie) and practically invented the stance that innumerable singer/songwriters adopt today. Best, Ted - -- - ------------------ Ted Greenwald senior editor Wired Magazine 520 3rd Street San Francisco, CA 94107 415.276.4974 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:27:31 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Haypp Birthday, Nikki! njc Happy birthday, little one - where the heck you been lately? ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:32:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: long & somewhat technical) - --- BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: >(Oh -- and does anyone know how > to get a Mac to put out > a "flat" sign, and while we're at it, a "natural" > sign -- "sharp" is taken > care of, of course.) Funny you should ask. I can't find a way to do it on my PC either. All I can find is a "b" in some different typeface that looks KIND of like a flat sign (if you look at it cross-eyed and squinting, and you already know what it's supposed to be). I couldn't find anything in any of the "wingdings" either (but I gave up looking after a while, so maybe it's there somewhere.) I suppose you could use L7 for a natural, but that's a bit of a stretch. ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:33:57 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Chords to "I Don't Know Where I Stand" (content warning: long & somewhat technical) Dear Walt, I don't know much about chords and such, but dear God, I love this song and the feeling it evokes. I've always been enamored of how it takes place over the course of 24 hours. How love has made her sleepless in California, so to speak. How she metaphorically finishes writing the song as the morning comes up. How it's innocent and hopeful, but still imbued with melancholy and longing. How the lone guitar (or restrained piano, I'm sure) compliments the lyrics's sentiments, perfectly And of course, the allusions are beautiful: "braiding wild-flowers and leaves in my hair," "crickets call courting their ladies in star-dappled green," "I wrote 'I love you' in my finest hand." I going play Clouds as soon as I get home. Thanks for mentioning this song. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:38:56 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni's Guitars Soon up for Sale at Westwood Music? This is exciting, but, didn't they tease us with this a couple of years ago? I seem to remember something (actually, very little). Here's the url: http://westwoodmusic.com/ Then hit 'collections'..you can see Dan Folgerbergs cool-lection including the incredibly rare Gretsch White Penguin...he has some kind of worn-out Strats that he seems to think are in mint condition. RR np; Persuasions version of Zappa's 'My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama'....more violence against women! Lindsay Moon wrote: > While searching Westwood Music's site > "Collections" however, that Joni is > shown as having 6 electric and acoustic guitars coming up for sale ... it > says only "Coming Soon." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:53:57 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Joni Date In regards to the current Janis thread I was browsing some non Joni stuff tonight and came up with this info below. Les I am cpoying this to you for the performance page. Happy Mardi Gras Ya'll!! Paz NP-Carry Me-CSNY Acoustic Detroit 2/10/02 April 7, 1968 Big Brother with Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Joni Mitchell, Richie Havens, Paul Butterfield, and Elvin Bishop Wake for Martin Luther King, Jr. Generation, New York City ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:59:43 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni in fiction >This is my first post on this list. I've been a fan of Joni Mitchell since when I was >about ten and shared a room with my big sister who listened to Hejira constantly. Welcome to the list, Tara! I think quite a few of us found Joni through our big sisters! I had a similar experience to yours: I was fourteen and the album was "Blue." Kerry P.S. I like your email address! NP - Emmylou Harris, "Orphan Girl" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:57:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: MANY Men killing women/(NJC) i just remember ''miss otis regrets''!!!! after all, the poor thing is LYNCHED for god's sake! wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:02:06 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Bring on the night - NJC Last Sunday I was browsing through stuff at a used cd store that I had just discovered and I found a Sting cd, Bring On the Night - I had the tape years ago, never played a tape more, over and over and over again - long ago worn out, I never knew it was on cd. So I bought it and what a rush to hear it again after all these years - one of my all time favorite songs was on Sting's Dream of Blue Turtles cd - Moon over Bourbon Street - originally inspired by Anne Rice's works - and here it is, Shrove Tuesday, partying down on Bourbon Street, and next Friday the 22nd "Queen of the Damned" one of my favorite Anne Rice books is opening, and it was such a kick to hear this song tonight - -- There's a moon over Bourbon Street tonight I see faces as they pass beneath the pale lamplight I've no choice but to follow that call The bright lights, the people, and the moon and all I pray everyday to be strong For I know what I do must be wrong Oh you'll never see my shade or hear the sound of my feet While there's a moon over Bourbon Street It was many years ago that I became what I am I was trapped in this life like an innocent lamb Now I can never show my face at noon And you'll only see me walking by the light of the moon The brim of my hat hides the eye of a beast I've the face of a sinner but the hands of a priest Oh you'll never see my shade or hear the sound of my feet While there's a moon over Bourbon Street She walks everyday through the streets of New Orleans She's innocent and young from a family of means I have stood many times outside her window at night To struggle with my instinct in the pale moonlight How could I be this way when I pray to God above I must love what I destroy and destroy the thing I love Oh you'll never see my shade or hear the sound of my feet While there's a moon over Bourbon Street ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:11:59 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: men killing women NJC >"(I Love It When You) Call Me Names" by Joan Armatrading(which is deceptively catchy...very disturbing, actually) I always thought she was being sarcastic in this song? Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:29:23 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: was Chords/font for musical symbols NJC On 12 Feb 2002 at 19:32, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- BigWaltinSF@aol.com wrote: > >(Oh -- and does anyone know how > > to get a Mac to put out > > a "flat" sign, and while we're at it, a "natural" > > sign -- "sharp" is taken > > care of, of course.) > > Funny you should ask. I can't find a way to do it on > my PC either. There is a True Type font for PC and MAC call Bach that has all the musical notation symbols. It's shareware, so if you like it and will use it alot, send the author the minimal registration fee. http://www.music.qub.ac.uk/~tomita/bach-mf.html Brenda n.p.: Les Nubians - "Rendez-vous" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:20:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Dylan question NJC Ted, I think your points really sum up a lot of what it was all about with Dylan. I was pretty young when he came on the scene in the early 60s but completely recall the major impact he had at the time if from nothing more all the teenagers in my neighborhood literally carrying around his albums reverently wherever they went. He was very young then and very charismatic. A New York intellectual version of Woody Guthrie but so much more - because he was an original and he was radically breaking new ground for that time. I always looked at him as the continuum of the Beat poets but taking it to the new wave. Laurent wondered in his post why Dylan was so universally popular and followed in other countries that did not have a Vietnam war going, etc. Dylan actually made his mark a few years before the escalation of the war and subsequent protest of it. Before the anti-war movement, however, there was the free speech and civil rights movement and also the resistance against the static conformity of the 50s. These earlier movements and cultural directions combined with his incredible lyrical poetry and original music and sound could not help but appeal universally to the new generation of the time. And on top of all that, he did almost single-handedly alter the course of much of the music in the 60s and can take much credit for inspiring its greatness. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:35:09 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Jonifest videos NJC I was just watching the compilation video tape as well. What great memories! Thanks sound crew, video crew and of course all of the perfomers......Thanks Ashara!!! I played the compilation tape for scott and his comment was "That was great, but did you have to buy all 5"? My comment back - Quoting 'BNL' .".Well, ya!" End of discussion :~) love, jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:58:56 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: feb 12!!!!!!!njc In a message dated 2/12/02 3:26:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > > N I K K I > Well, it's before midnight! LOL We missed you tonight. I made it home ok :0) Hope you had a great day. Maybe we'll do that Jonatha concert Love, Rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:07:18 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Kate and Jeff in NYC [NJC] Congratulations to Kate and Jeff for a really fine show tonight!!! They both sounded great!!! "Irene" was my favorite, with Jeff's "Daddy" song a close second; that was so sweet, and the lyrics were intriguingly twisty and clever, and Kate singing that long "Ireeene" almost started the waterworks. It was such a melancholy sound and songs/stories about leaving always touch me. It really was an enjoyable show in every way, even with my tear ducts about to go into action, and fun, too, spending some time with jonilisters again and drinking draft lager made in Brooklyn, good stuff (who knew?). Thanks Kate! Thanks Jeff! I'm so glad you came by to sing to us New Yorkers. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:12:44 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Kate & Jeff's gig tonight Kate & Jeff made their NYC debut at The Living Room tonight. They were awesome and well received by a full living room. They sold lots of CD's and the hat was full of cash LOL! I thought we were gonna need a NYC cop to escort them back to their hotel. I've got two slices of pepperoni pizza left here for anyone one who wants them. A nice show of JMDLers were there to help cheer them on. Cagno, me, Debra Shea and Barbara (aka naturegirl) Hi Barb! LOL Love you guys, gnite, Rose ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:10:29 -0600 From: "Dolphie Bush" Subject: Re: turbulent indigo njc Hi Anne. Sorry for the delay. Been out of town. I know, I have given up on posting to them. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: Re: turbulent indigo njc > > Can't believe I have had this album for years and > never gave it a chance. > > This is one killer album. The melody on Not to Blame > is so beautiful which is > > such a contrast to the song's lyrics. Pure genius, > our Joni. > > > > > > mack > > Hi Mack. > > I'm sure others will point this out. The NJC isn't > necessary as this is most definitely JC :-) > > I also enjoy this album. The music has 'texture" not > unlike the layers of paint on a van Gogh. > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #72 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?