From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #70 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 11 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 070 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today's Articles: February 11 [les@jmdl.com] Joni in fiction [Tara Lindsay ] Re: Nash's party (why pink, Ms. M, press) ["hell" ] Dave Van Ronk has died (SJC) [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni in fiction [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: New articles... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Back to Joni ["Laurent Olszer" ] Joni on ESPN ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: turbulent indigo njc [anne@sandstrom.com] men killing women ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: men killing womenNJC [colin ] Re: men killing women NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Boston are JMDLers...........(GCC) (Gregg Cagno Content) ["Donna J. B] Re: men killing women - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: men killing women ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: men killing women NJC [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Deep question about accents NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: Joni in fiction ["Rob Ettridge" ] Re: accents NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: foreign accents NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: men killing women - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni in fiction [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC [colin ] Re: Dylan question NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: dylan question njc [Gil Lamont ] Jonifest videos NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: idiom? njc [Gil Lamont ] Re: general weirdness NJC [Gil Lamont ] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: men killing women NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: men killing women NJC [Reuben3rd@aol.com] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig!NJC [colin ] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Men Killing women NJC ["Mike Pritchard" ] Re: Men Killing women NJC G'nR ["Sybil Skelton" ] Re: Men Killing women NJC [Alison E ] Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! (now NJC) [chiaroscuro@snet.net] muller in the park (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [Alison E ] Joni's piano - cover art ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Men Killing women NJC [] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: muller in the park (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Men Killing women NJC [Vince Lavieri ] RE: muller in the park (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Men Killing women NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Men Killing women NJC [The New Guy ] Re: muller in the park (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] local press release for show on Friday(njc) ["Johnson Victor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 03:23:47 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Articles: February 11 On February 11 the following articles were published: 1991: "Night Ride Home" - People (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/910211p.cfm 2000: "Both Sides Now" - Entertainment Weekly (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/000211ew.cfm - ------------------------ http://www.jmdl.com/articles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 1980 10:12:36 -0800 From: Tara Lindsay Subject: Joni in fiction Hi, This is my first post on this list. I've been a fan of Joni Mitchell since when I was about ten and shared a room with my big sister who listened to Hejira constantly. Two books I read recently had Joni references - The Hissing Of The Silent Room by Paul Charles Who Will Run the Frog Hospital by Lorrie Moore Hope this is what you were looking for. bye for now, Tara (in Dublin,Ireland) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:15:49 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Nash's party (why pink, Ms. M, press) Phyllis wrote: > Damn! It looked like Bette to me but I thought "Naw, probably not" She > HAS gotten quite thin though so it makes sense. I managed to zoom in on the singers photo, and I think it looks a lot like her. The hand action is very "Bette" too! I couldn't see anyone that looks like Joni. > Oh no, not neccesarily. And anyhoo, she WAS there as confirmed by > Rick's snooping at the Madonna Inn a few days later. I'm put money on > it that she it the one in the pink vinyl/leather outfit. I think that this could be Joni too - the profile is right, and it's the sort of thing she'd wear. I did notice that the woman in this one is wearing large, pink hoop earrings, which aren't present in the singers photo, where the woman at the end (who others have suggested might be Joni) seems to have curly hair, and is wearing a feather boa (and no cap). Is there anyone on the CSN list (maybe even Croz?) who can confirm or deny? Enquiring minds wanna know! Hell ____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Hell's Personal Photo Page: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/main/personal.htm Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://www.nbls.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:05:26 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Dave Van Ronk has died (SJC) Dave Van Ronk, the legendary folk musician, has died of colon cancer. He was a friend of Joni's in the early days and can be heard on the Second Fret set. He wrote an odd little "Song for Joni" and he recorded Both Sides Now, Chelsea Morning, River, Song To A Seagull , That Song About The Midway, and Urge For Going . http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020210/en/people-vanronk_2.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:30:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in fiction <> Hi Tara, and welcome! What are the Joni references in these books? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:29:05 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New articles... Les posted this link: Read the full article here: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/981024ocx.cfm Great article. Of course, this passage leapt out at me: "Hendrix took his own portable reel-to-reel recording equipment wherever he went. The Experience Music Project has more than 200 hours of tape he recorded on his travels. Somewhere among them is a recording of Joni Mitchell performing at L'Hibou. " OK, so who's been to this museum? How good is security? ;~) Bob, ready to don black clothing and form a JMDL "Mission Impossible" stealth team...:~) NP: Peter Gabriel, "Fourteen Black Paintings" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:03:33 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Back to Joni It's saturday night, I'm waiting for Pete Townshend on VH1 to start the VCR. In the meantime I'm zapping stations and there's this 1956 movie Rock, Rock, Rock with Alan Freed. So I figure I may catch some early Chuck Berry or Buddy Holly. But no, it's still 1-2 years too early and the music is really pathetic. Then comes the hightlight of the show: it's Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers. Pretty good. What do you know, they perform "(I'm not a) Juvenile Delinquant" and it's the actual sequence used in the Shadows & Light video. Back to Joni..... Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:45:09 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Joni on ESPN Yesterday morning I was watching "Outside the Lines" on ESPN - part of my weekend sports junkie fix. It had just started and I was only half listening while getting some coffee, when I heard the host Bob Ley say the words "star maker machinery" in reference to some Olympic speed skater. My respect for ESPN skyrocketed. A Joni Mitchell reference on ESPN, a Led Zeppelin song in a Cadillac commercial. Can the Apocalypse be far behind? Sybil _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:13:25 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: turbulent indigo njc > Can't believe I have had this album for years and never gave it a chance. > This is one killer album. The melody on Not to Blame is so beautiful which is > such a contrast to the song's lyrics. Pure genius, our Joni. > > > mack Hi Mack. I'm sure others will point this out. The NJC isn't necessary as this is most definitely JC :-) I also enjoy this album. The music has 'texture" not unlike the layers of paint on a van Gogh. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:29:30 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: men killing women Im writing an academic paper for a conference in October on the theme of domestic violence and murder of women by their husbands/lovers. I know there is probably some stuff about the Jackson Browne / Not to Blame controversy in the archives (and Ill look there) but Id appreciate any other type of help on this theme. The Jackson Browne thing is a very small part of the paper but Id like to get it right. Im particularly interested in the male closing of ranks against women (as in the above song) and also in the difference between crimes of passion committed in the heat of the moment and the premeditated murder, both with and without previous threats of violence. I will be looking at the lyrics of some popular songs which seem, to me, to attempt to justify male violence against women. More general comments would be appreciated too. Can you good people think of any songs in which the lyrics seem to underplay the seriousness of male violence and / or attempt to blame the victim? All help appreciated, off-list if you prefer. Thanks a lot. mike in bcn. NP This Flight Tonight by Nazareth (unplugged version) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:40:33 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: men killing womenNJC Although it was a 60's hit, Tom Jone's song Delilah is outrageous in it's blaming of the woman for her fate. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:41:59 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: men killing women NJC Mike, off the top of my head, I can think of "Voices Carry" by 'Til Tuesday/Aimee Mann. Also, Carole King's most controversial song was one she wrote called "He Hit Me (and it felt like a kiss)". That one was actually banned in some places, and was covered by The Motels on their hit LP "All Four One". Oh, and how about "Johnny Get Angry" by Joanie Summers? The song details the frustration felt by her because her boyfriend won't 'fight' for her. Probably lots more, but maybe that will be of some help. Bob NP: Genesis, "Heathaze" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:00:38 -0600 From: "Donna J. Binkley" Subject: RE: Boston are JMDLers...........(GCC) (Gregg Cagno Content) Thanks Nawlins! Tell us about Mardi Gras! I was wondering if you went this weekend. db - -----Original Message----- From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Michael Paz Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:17 AM To: Donna J. Binkley; AsharaJM@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Boston are JMDLers...........(GCC) (Gregg Cagno Content) Texas- U know you can always count on us music sluts. Houston ain't that far off for me. Paz NP-Woodstock-Pine Knob83 on 2/7/02 8:52 AM, Donna J. Binkley at djb@binkleybarfield.com wrote: > What enquiring minds want to know, is when is Gregg Cagno going to play in > Texas? > > Also, i would like to have a mini Jonifest at some point. If i did, would > anyone come this far? > > db ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:54:36 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: men killing women - NJC In a message dated 2/11/02 10:31:37 AM, ink08@hotmail.com writes: << Can you good people think of any songs in which the lyrics seem to underplay the seriousness of male violence and / or attempt to blame the victim? >> How about "Delilah" by Tom Jones! Or anything at all by Eminem. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:56:42 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: men killing women >I will be looking at the lyrics of some popular songs which seem, to me, to >attempt to justify male violence >against women. More general comments would be appreciated too. Can you >good people think of any songs in which the lyrics seem to underplay the >seriousness of male violence and / or attempt to blame the victim? "You know the night you left you put me in my place I got you in a stranglehold baby then I crush your face" Stranglehold by Ted Nugent. In fairness to Mr..Nugent, I don't know the story behind this song. You know it could be something out of the headlines he is retelling in this song and the thoughts are not from him? But I think the place for your research would be rap music......this would be the place to look. IMO,there is a lot of misogyny going on there. I'm sure abuse of this kind has affected most every family. I use to get aggravated at my sister for putting up with spousal abuse for so long. (I would become more p.o. at her for staying then her blank of a husband) I realize now I didn't understand all the underlining reasons she stayed. I have a friend that works in ER and she sees the results of this epidemic first-hand. She has told me about the bruises,broken noses, cracked tailbones.....THE DENIAL. Good researching to you Mike! Bree >NP This Flight Tonight by Nazareth (unplugged version) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: men killing women NJC You might want to listen to Diane Zeigler's "Sting of the Honeybee." lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:27:00 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Deep question about accents NJC Kerry wrote: >Since we're on the subject of accents, there's something I've been pondering >for a while and I'm wondering if anyone has an answer. (Maybe I'm pathetic, >but this fascinates me...) I would like to know how so many accents and >dialects can spin off of one language. I know this happens with other >languages, but if you think about English, there are so many in the UK, the >US, Australia, New Zealand, etc. How did they get to be so radically >different? Easy. Isolation. Total isolation and independence from each other. Today, of course, TV (and earlier radio) are beginning to erode the different accents. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:32:59 -0000 From: "Rob Ettridge" Subject: Re: Joni in fiction I read 'Who Will Run the Frog Hospital?' about the same time as I first heard Blue, and I've been meaning to search for the quote for ages and share it with the list, but never got round to it. I just had a quick flick through hoping the relevant page would reveal itself, but alas it didn't work this time. I just did a quick search on Google which has come up with pretty much what I remember of the quote. It's taken from a site (http://www.jenniferdavidson.com/bookreviews.htm) which gives a nice nod to jm.com: There is a passage in this book that I find particularly haunting. Berie, speaking of the Joni Mitchell song "Little Green" (be a gypsy dancer...) says: "Twenty years later at a cocktail party, I would watch an entire roomful of women, one by one and in bunches, begin to sing this song when it came on over the sound system. They quit conversations, touched people's arms, turned toward the corner stereo speakers and sang in a show of memory and surprise. All the women knew the words, every last one of them, and it shocked the men."* faber and faber, 1995 *(I tested myself, and I can sing along to every word too. You can find the full lyrics by going to http://www.jonimitchell.com/, a marvelous website created by Wally Breese.) Tara, welcome! Is there any more reference to Joni in 'Frog Hospital'? It's been a while since I read it. By the way, on the site, the review directly below is of a very good book - Morvern Callar by Alan Warner. At times I thought I wasn't going to enjoy this book, but in the end I thought it was one of the most original pieces of fiction I'd read in a long time. Camus with a modern British slant, maybe? Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: walkinggreen@eircom.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Joni in fiction <> Hi Tara, and welcome! What are the Joni references in these books? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:38:09 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: accents NJC mack wrote: > > Easy there, Tex. Was Northam's character from Texas? Just because he > > visited the town doesn't mean he had to talk the talk, so to speak. > >But Gil, we were talking about accents. But, he could have been trying to >just sound American, I suppose. He was trying to sound American. He wasn't trying to sound Texan, IIRC. > > a. It was a movie. > > b. It was filmed in California. All of it. > >That is my point Gil. We discussed this a while back. Hollywood takes >major liberties with their films and often do not put much effort into being >accurate. I mentioned then the mountains they show in the background in the >silly "Dill Scallion" movie when not only are their no mountains anywhere >near Muleshoe, Texas, there are no hills either. Others pointed out more >examples. The one I remember the best is some inaccuracy concerning D.C. In this instance, "Hollywood" took major liberties in HAPPY, TEXAS because the filmmakers were independent. They took their film to Sundance, were surprised at the reaction they got, signed with Miramax to distribute, and reshot some scenes that they weren't so crazy about, but didn't go to Texas. Just flatout couldn't afford it. > > Did the rest of the actors sound remotely Texan to you. What was that > > accent Steve Zahn had? > >As with most productions that are supposed to signify Texas, it did not, nor >did the actors. I will have to watch it again. I am not sure who Steve >Zahn is. Steve Zahn, who played Jeremy Northam's partner in HAPPY, TEXAS, ended up being stuck teaching the little girls (and finally uniting with Ileana Douglas). He played the lead guitar player in THAT THING YOU DO, the young fool in OUT OF SIGHT, and is beginning to achieve a vogue in, unfortunately, mindless teen sex flicks (how many redundancies there?). He's a better actor than that. >Flicks that have done a good job representing Texas and the >accents, customs, behavior are "The Trip to Bountiful" and ( I am getting >old because I cannot think of the name of it) the one with Sally Field that >she won the Oscar for. With Danny Glover, John Malkovich. Picking cotton, >etc. PLACES IN THE HEART. Did TRIP TO BOUNTIFUL ever specify Texas? From the title I would have thought Utah. > > And while we're at it, does Texas have regional accents, as does > > California? > >Really good question Gil. I would say yes. >After living >here these years, I can now hear myself on tape and I do have a noticeable >accent. My old friends and acquaintances say I sound like a hillbilly. Congratulations. I think. I don't sound like anybody. >Great discussing with you gil, great posts. I've been warmed by the reception on this list. And all I'm doing is responding to what I read. But thanks. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:40:47 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: foreign accents NJC Sybil wrote: >She was an English teacher on holiday in Moscow, and she had been >listening to our English trying to keep up with the conversation, but she >was having difficulty. She said she realized we were American, but she >seemed to be baffled by our "phonetics". It took us a minute to realize >that she meant the Texas drawl!! We tried to explain as best we could that >there were regional accents in the U.S., but I don't think she got it. I forget where I read it, but a group of travelers going through Europe encountered a man who spoke very bad Italian. It wasn't until later that they realized he was speaking Spanish. See. Texan is almost a different language! Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:43:53 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: men killing women - NJC In a message dated 2/11/02 10:31:37 AM, ink08@hotmail.com writes: << I will be looking at the lyrics of some popular songs which seem, to me, to attempt to justify male violence against women. >> Like Eminem, the Rolling Stones should be a veritable treasure trove of violence-against-women songs, but I can only thin of two examples right now. In "Brown Sugar," there are the lyrics about "Hear him whip the women just around midnight." (Although this is more about the violence of slavery, of course.) And in "Midnight Rambler" there's that bit about "Stick my knife right down your throat and it hurts." Knowing Mick and Co., there must be more! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:51:31 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC colin wrote: >here in the UK the Chinese and Indian food outlets are all selling English >versions of their foods. (ducking) Is this to comply with health codes? The Mexican-styled fast food chains sell Americanized versions here in the U.S. There's a wonderful restaurant in L.A., The Gardens of Taxco (Tassco), that offers Mexican "home cooking" on a menu that has only a dozen entrees. A girlfriend and I spent a year working through all variations of the meal (the carne asada was best). As I recall, the meal began with a miniature chicken quesadilla, smothered in cheese and guacamole; albondigas soup; soft taco; entree with rice and refried beans that tasted like walnut puree; and for dessert bananas in heavy cream and a glass of sherry. Heavenly. Not the same as a Jack-in-the-Box burrito. My favorite Mexican restaurant in Sacramento had a kitchen fire 18 months ago, came back with a vastly reduced menu during reconstruction, then 4 months ago had a major fire that razed the place. I have no idea where the cook went. How did we get talking about food? At this rate I'm gonna drown in my own saliva. Gl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:50:05 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! In a message dated 2/11/02 2:24:01 AM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << when Beethoven died his last defiant act was to shake his fist at a raging thunderstorm outside >> Thanks, Nuriel, for adding another layer to my ever-expanding understanding and appreciation of Joni's lyrics. Although I have to wonder . . . how disturbing would thunder be to a deaf man! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:00:01 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in fiction In a message dated 2/11/02 5:26:55 AM, walkinggreen@eircom.net writes: << Two books I read recently had Joni references - The Hissing Of The Silent Room by Paul Charles Who Will Run the Frog Hospital by Lorrie Moore >> Welcome, Tara! How nice of you to make your first post to the list such a helpful one. I am looking forward to hearing more from you. I have put a hold on "Who Will Run the Frog Hospital" at my local library through their Web site. They don't have "The Hissing Of The Silent Room" anywhere in their shared network of about 100 libraries, though, so I'll check the bookstores. Thanks for your help. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:11:47 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC Gil Lamont wrote: > colin wrote: > > >here in the UK the Chinese and Indian food outlets are all selling English > >versions of their foods. > > (ducking) Is this to comply with health codes? > no I think it is because they think most of us wouldn't like the spice and particularly the 'hotness'. Personaly I lvoe a real bum burner but even on their menue when they say 'hot' it usually isn't. I recall a time in Singapore when my mother took some time trying to explain to the Indian cook that she didn't ewant her food 'hot'. after some time it seemed all was understood. She was given a 'hot' dish that was cold! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:33:44 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Dylan question NJC Sybil wrote: >Recently, my 18 year old son posed a simple question to me for which I >really didn't have an answer, but it did set me to thinking. We were on a >long car trip during the holidays, and I put on a Dylan tape - Greatest Hits >I. My son has very good taste in pop music ("Neil Young is the MAN") and he >appreciates Dylan. But he brought up an interesting point, at least to me. >He asked me why Dylan became "like, so famous". My erudite response...Well, >just listen to it. Doh! > >I guess to a young person Dylan looks like a very unlikely rock star - not >particularly attractive, strange vocal style, little to no personality. Was >it right time, right place, right person? Or is there more to it? During >Dylan's early career I was just a pre-adolescent wee thing totally consumed >by Beatlemania, so I really don't rememer what impact he made back then. Once upon a time, when "folk" was an acceptable reaction to pop music without the sex of rock 'n' roll, plus it allowed the dissemination of all sorts of Red ideas, Bob Dylan was hailed as the New Hope, since he not only wrote songs of Protest -- and new stuff that could be Big Hits for the likes of Peter Paul & Mary and a jillion others -- but also had the uncanny ability to sound like the source of the folk song. "Y'sound like a hillbilly. We want folk singers here." Like most successes, his timing was perfect. The rest is history. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:07:02 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: dylan question njc Fauchja wrote: >I've always had the theory that Dylan though his job was to make these songs >up and share them with someone, so that someone with a better voice/better >player/something would do an incredible version of them. I think Dylan has wanted to get his songs out because he wants to get his songs out. I'm not so sure he cares who covers them. I'm not so sure *I* care who covers them. My preference so often is for Dylan's own versions. They seem so much more authentic. >His recording >sessions were always play this sons get a take and move on. That's because Bob hated retakes. Gil NP The Band, When You Awake, from the Dylan/band 1974 Anthology ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:08:13 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Jonifest videos NJC Just got back from Atlanta and a nice surprise was waiting for me. The 2001 Jonifest videos had arrived. Thank you soooo much Ashara for getting the videographer for the event. I just finished watching the compilation tape, and it's GREAT hearing AND seeing my buds play and sing their hearts out. ..........and at least the videographer got the JMDL group shot of everyone on stage. Thanks Ashara!!! Now if I can get my hands on the "Howling Wolf" show...........Mr.. Paz??? :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:10:20 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: idiom? njc Catherine wrote: >Think of the way a >Cockney might pronounce the /t/ in words like "kitten" >(ki'' en) and it will probably make sense to you. I >remember that my English grandmother (she was from >Kent though, not London, certainly not a Cockney, just >a farmgirl from Kent) had a glottal stop in words like >"bottle". I always thought it was kind of funny, but >if I'm talking quickly, I do the same thing myself. I think of Carla on Cheers pronouncing her son's name: An''ny. Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:12:34 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: general weirdness NJC mike in bcn wrote: >I'm sorry about the strange formatting appearing in my mails recently, >especially the little squares that appear instead of apostrophes and >speech marks. Does anyone know why this is happening and how I can fix >it? You're cut-and-pasting from something with a wordprocessor origin: Word or WordPerfect or that ilk. Try saving it as a generic text file and then pasting it. >NP Steve Reich -Music for 18 >musicians Superb choice. Which version? Gil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:21:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! The song has a lot to do with being deaf, sounds that "might as well be mute", to see but hear nothing so you can only "keep the pictures", the fact you play an instrument, feel it's touch, but you can't hear it because a piano is not like a "long body" that you touch and 'hear it's song' even if you're deaf. No tongue in the bell And the fishwives yell But they might as well be mute So you get to keep the pictures That don't seem like much Cold white keys under your fingers Now you're thinking "That's no substitute It just don't do it Like the song of a warm warm body And like Ludwing, even in silence, "the gift goes on". And if you're sick of being deaf and tired of "the silent night" - Yell it. "Strike every chord that you feel" because you're deaf, and to deaf ears there's no wrong chord. btw, i always thought that "In the court they carve your legend" is Ludwig's piano and the "apple in its jaw" being the artwork, the ilustation on the wood (as pianofortes were always covered with decoration and images back then) I find it very interesting that Joni sings "a song to a deaf person" if you understand what i'm talking about. Thanks, Bob, for making me spend some time with this song again. Nuri - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/11/02 2:24:01 AM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: > ><< when Beethoven died his last defiant act was to shake his fist at a raging >thunderstorm outside >> > >Thanks, Nuriel, for adding another layer to my ever-expanding understanding >and appreciation of Joni's lyrics. Although I have to wonder . . . how >disturbing would thunder be to a deaf man! > > --Bob _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:29:58 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: men killing women NJC anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > You might want to listen to Diane Zeigler's "Sting of > the Honeybee." > > lots of love > Anne A much older song with roots in folk would be Pretty Polly. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:33:28 EST From: Reuben3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: men killing women NJC (Apologies if these have already been mentioned)... There's also: "Luka" by Suzanne Vega (big hit) "(I Love It When You) Call Me Names" by Joan Armatrading(which is deceptively catchy...very disturbing, actually) Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:47:43 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig!NJC > Although I have to wonder . . . how > >disturbing would thunder be to a deaf man! surely thunderstorms are accompanied by the light show? that could be disturbing, yes? > > > > > --Bob > > _____________________________________________________________ > Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! > Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:01:33 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! Nuriel writes: << i always thought that "In the court they carve your legend" is Ludwig's piano and the "apple in its jaw" being the artwork, the ilustation on the wood (as pianofortes were always covered with decoration and images back then) >> I always thought she was saying that because of his insatiable carnal appetite, the court considered him a pig, (as in the image of a roast pig with an apple in its jaw which one might see at a lavish banquet of that era). --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:16:44 From: "Mike Pritchard" Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC Thanks to all concerned for the immediate replies to my appeal for men killing women songs. I have some new leads to follow and some books too (thanks Mags), but I suppose I should say that the three songs I was already planning to deal with are Delilah, Hey Joe and Your Funeral, My Trial. Although the Alex Harvey version is more sinister I prefer to use the Tom Jones version of Delilah. I will also use the Willy de Ville version of Hey Joe in preference to the Hendrix version for the same reason; namely that both feature mariachi music  mariachi derived, of course, from the word marriage, therein lies one of the ironies. Ill take a look at the other suggestions too (the more the merrier; if you have more, send em) but the conference time limit is 20 minutes although the printed version may be up to 6,000 words so Ill need more research on this. I thought too about the Violent Femmes Country Death Song but it is not exactly what I want, it being a parody of the material Im dealing with. Thanks again. Mike in BCN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:26:58 -0600 From: "Sybil Skelton" Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC G'nR There's always the Guns n Roses song "I Used to Love Her". I've always thought that song was clearly tongue in cheek, but given Axl Rose's history with women, maybe not so clearly. Sybil an abiding affection for GnR - a remnant of my son's fling with glitter rock _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:39:01 -0800 From: Gil Lamont Subject: Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC colin wrote: >no I think it is because they think most of us wouldn't like the spice and >particularly the 'hotness'. Personaly I lvoe a real bum burner but even on >their >menue when they say 'hot' it usually isn't. I went to dinner at an Indian restaurant in Hollywood and the rest of my party complained that the tandoori chicken I'd selected was too hot (spicy) to eat. I find that after my local restaurant gets to know me they'll start spicing it hotter and hotter until I begin to mew -- or, later, scream in solitude in the smallest room in my house. Gil NP: Bob Dylan, Idiot Wind, San Jose 05/09/92 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:26:06 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC run for your life by the beatles. you didn't see that one coming, did you. alison e. in slc np: the silence in my empty head trying to write a press release. and npr. Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:34:08 -0500 From: chiaroscuro@snet.net Subject: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! (now NJC) do you ever sleep bob?! we should honor you with a statue ... Muller's cast in bronze and he's standing in a little park with his keyboard in his hand heather At 09:39 PM 2/10/02 -0500, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: ><< You are an amazing, tireless good-doer, Mr. Muller. >> > >Sorry, no time to respond. I'm off to cure world hunger! > >Bob > >NP: Courtney Lawsing, "Urge For Going" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:44:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: muller in the park (NJC) or maybe that should be ''and he's standing in a little park with a smurf doll in his hand...'' wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de chiaroscuro@SNET.Net Enviado el: Lunes, 11 de Febrero de 2002 09:34 p.m. Para: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: Shake that fist, Ludwig! (now NJC) Muller's cast in bronze and he's standing in a little park with his keyboard in his hand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:52:16 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 7:46:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > or maybe that should be > > ''and he's standing in a little park > with a smurf doll in his hand...'' > wally > hee hee buy him blanks and beer and he'll send to you.... joni covers and bootlegs too ;~) rosalita ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:54:02 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 7:46:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > ''and he's standing in a little park > with a smurf doll in his hand...'' > "...........and the click of Paz' high heeled shoes, poor smurphy sings the blues..........." Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) propped up in his bed, with his marlboros and his plastic mouse removed.... - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/11/02 7:46:06 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > > > > ''and he's standing in a little park > > with a smurf doll in his hand...'' > > > > "...........and the click of Paz' high heeled shoes, > poor smurphy sings the blues..........." > > Jimmy Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:21:04 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni's piano - cover art Hi there, My compilation CD of Joni piano tunes is nearing completion. I'm now looking for a photo of Joni at the paino for cover art. I have one B&W profile shot from Anaheim (that doesn't really show her face), and I've also seen Pearl's Toronto profile shot. Although both of these images are copyrighted, is there a problem using one of them for this non-commercial project ? Also, I'd like to know if there are any other Joni-piano images out there? I've scoured the Net and believe me, photos of Joni at the piano are rare indeed. My fantasy is to find a shot taken across the strings through the open piano top, showing Joni singing. Does such a thing exist? All contributions gratefully received! Michaelo NP: Virginia Rodriguez, NOS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:00:49 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC how about THE WATER SONG? i forgot the original singer who sang it, but in German cabaret singer Ute Lemper's latest album PUNISHING KISS, that song was sung by her in a kind of Stina Nordenstam voice. The song is about a woman who fell in love with the man as he was in the act of killing/drowning her. Disturbing. The last line was unforgettable. Joseph (who wishes everyone a Kung Hei Fat Choi today to usher the year of the water horse) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:28:14 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) Wally writes: << or maybe that should be ''and he's standing in a little park with a smurf doll in his hand...'' >> Or . . . "Bob Muller Park Is melting in the dark . . . ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:32:20 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 7:54:02 PM, FMY FL writes: << "...........and the click of Paz' high heeled shoes, poor smurphy sings the blues..........." >> "He points a chubby finger at you and says 'I don't like you'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:37:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: muller in the park (NJC) ''everybody laughs as if it's old murphy's standard jig but it's true you're only welcome if you're kinky and big!'' - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Lunes, 11 de Febrero de 2002 11:32 p.m. Para: FMYFL@aol.com; wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 7:54:02 PM, FMY FL writes: << "...........and the click of Paz' high heeled shoes, poor smurphy sings the blues..........." >> "He points a chubby finger at you and says 'I don't like you'" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:43:38 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 9:38:23 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << you're only welcome if you're kinky and big >> You're welcome, Wally! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:49:35 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC As will be expected of me, I will differ from the prevailing view that Eminem's lyrics promote violence, including, especially, violencer against women. I think Eminem holds up a mirror to our society, to our way of life, and reflects many of the horrors, and the causes of those horrors, that we prefer not to think about when we think about family life today. That said, a song that has always bothered me deeply is my beloved Neil Young singing "down by the river, I shot my lady... dead." As will be unexpected of me and way off the subject, I was shopping in a used cd store yesterday and found and bought for $5.00 a cd that I suspect that no other member of the JMDL has ever bouight: Britney Spears' "Oops I did it again" Love that song - have done hours of aerobics to it, and trhe line, "I'm not that innocent" has made its way into one of stock phrases. Note: after the title song, the rest of the album sucks. but I just feel like letting you know that a long time JMDLer who is one of Eminem's biggest fans (along with my bud Michael Yarbrough) bought a Britney Spears album (I point out I doubt Mikle would ever do that.) (the Rev) Vince NP: Westmintser Kennel Club on tv, and once again the Samoyed was not put up ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:03:33 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: muller in the park (NJC) i know i am, bob. for all my flirting, i belong to you. - -----Mensaje original----- De: Murphycopy@aol.com [mailto:Murphycopy@aol.com] Enviado el: Lunes, 11 de Febrero de 2002 11:44 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; Murphycopy@aol.com; FMYFL@aol.com; SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: muller in the park (NJC) In a message dated 2/11/02 9:38:23 PM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << you're only welcome if you're kinky and big >> You're welcome, Wally! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:05:25 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC Vince said: << That said, a song that has always bothered me deeply is my beloved Neil Young singing "down by the river, I shot my lady... dead." >> Oh! Oh! Oh! Thanks, Vince. This reminds me, there's an obscure song -- a hit, of sorts, in its time -- by Noel Harrison from the late 60s called "A Young Girl." The last words of the song are: "A young girl A young girl of sixteen Child of springtime, so free Lying here by the road . . . dead" The song begins, "She left her neighborhood in which Everyone was filthy rich She left her parents' home and strayed With a vagabond who made Vows of love she'd never heard And she believed his every word" How odd you made me think of a Noel Harrison song when I just made reference to him with "MacArthur Park" (he did, after all, have the first hit with that song) in the Muller thread that's going on now. {And which I have been dragged into and had my good name sullied! Or was it murphied?)} How do I remember this shit? And where are the keys to my truck? Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:14:56 -0800 From: The New Guy Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC At 03:16 PM 2/11/02, you wrote: > > >Thanks to all concerned for the immediate replies to my appeal for men >killing women songs. I have some new leads to follow and some books too >(thanks Mags), but I suppose I should say that the three songs I was >already planning to deal with are Delilah, Hey Joe and Your Funeral, >My Trial. Although the Alex Harvey version is more sinister I prefer to >use the Tom Jones version of Delilah. I will also use the Willy de Ville >version of Hey Joe in preference to the Hendrix version for the same >reason; namely that both feature mariachi music mariachi derived, of >course, from the word marriage, therein lies one of the ironies. For the sequel, of course, you could start off with "That's The Way The Girls Are In Texas" by Ry Cooder. Warmest regards, Nick N/P: He Hit Me / Hole / Lyrics by Carole King Trade Stuff: http://www.boootlegs.com/ Text Only Pages: http://www.boootlegs.com/bootxt01.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:21:36 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: muller in the park (NJC) Wally writes: << i know i am, bob. for all my flirting, i belong to you. >> Honey, I am claiming you as a deduction on my income taxes this year! XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:21:14 -0800 From: "Johnson Victor" Subject: local press release for show on Friday(njc) just a little more information on the show this Friday. I'm looking real forward to it. Caroline Aiken's CD release 'party' next Friday, February 15th at Athens Music Factory Caroline, voted "Atlanta's #1 Folk Act of 2001" in Atlanta Magazine, has an incredible lineup with her that night: including : Donna Hopkins and Diane Durrett; along with Caroline they are Atlanta's 'Women Of Rock In The Round'. Her new CD, UNSHAKEN, was produced by Crit Harmon in Boston. Crit also plays guitar on the CD, and there is a unique simplicity on this CD: Mandolin, pedal steel, acapella 'finger-snappin'. It includes the song "Mama Louise" for her friend, Mama Louise, who is longtime friend and former 'road kitchen cook' for The Allman Brothers. Also joining Caroline for part of the set will be: Michael Wegner, (keys, guitar), Rob Sumowski (percussion), bass player Tommy Jones from Dan K-Theory. Don't let the "Folk Act" mislead you...this will be the BLUES done right! The Early Show: Friday, Feb. 15th: 7:30-8 is singer/songwriter Victor Johnson. Don't miss this man's voice! Great guitarist and a very nice fellow! 8:-9:30: Ralph Roddenbery and "Friends": in quotes because Ralph has a few surprises up his sleeve. "Let's just say I'll be surrounded by some really great musicians and we're gonna have a blast!" - --- Johnson Victor - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com - --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:27:12 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Men Killing women NJC In a message dated 2/11/02 10:06:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > . {And which I have been > dragged into and had my good name sullied! Or was it murphied?)} > No, it was Smurfied :0) I was just going to post, which Bob are we writing lyrics for? LOL! rj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:37:42 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: local press release for show on Friday(njc) In a message dated 2/11/02 10:23:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > The Early Show: Friday, Feb. 15th: 7:30-8 is singer/songwriter Victor > Johnson. Don't miss this man's voice! Great guitarist and a very nice > fellow! > Yes he is very sweet. Waaahhh!!! I wanna goze. When will you be touring this a way Victor? rj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:54:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mongolian Stir-fry NJC Gil wrote: > There's a wonderful restaurant in L.A., The Gardens of Taxco (Tassco), that > offers Mexican "home cooking" on a menu that has only a dozen entrees. A > girlfriend and I spent a year working through all variations of the meal > (the carne asada was best). As I recall, the meal began with a miniature > chicken quesadilla, smothered in cheese and guacamole; albondigas soup; > soft taco; entree with rice and refried beans that tasted like walnut > puree; and for dessert bananas in heavy cream and a glass of sherry. Heavenly. Yes! A friend took me for this exact meal there a few years ago (although I think we had two pitchers of margaritas instead of the sherry). They've been around forever and I don't think anything - the staff, decor, menu - has changed there in years > My favorite Mexican restaurant in Sacramento had a kitchen fire 18 months > ago, came back with a vastly reduced menu during reconstruction, then 4 > months ago had a major fire that razed the place. I have no idea where the > cook went. Reminds me of a place here in L.A. that I used to frequent just a few years ago. You could get a huge Mexican dinner that was wonderful for like $2.95. Drinks were also set at 1960s prices. I asked the owner a few times how he could manage to charge virtually nothing and he would just be coy and say he had another restaurant that was too successful. Hmmm. ;-) Suddenly one day he announced that he was closing and threw a big going away party for all the regulars and locals. They were giving food and drinks away by the end of the night. I was raised on good Mexican food and have had it at least one meal almost every day of my adult life. Cooking carne asada as we speak. I only find the real authentico in the old, small family owned places or anywhere in East L.A. Kakki NP: Kurt Elling - Rosa Morena (note to Fred Simon - you are thanked in your FULL name on this album ;-) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #70 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?