From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #10 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 010 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History: January 5 [les@jmdl.com] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [colin ] RE: Woody + Soon Yi ["owen.duff" ] Re: Girls in the Valley? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: That's an interesting position there, Bobster. [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni on Religion [Abbymusique@aol.com] Re: Girls in the Valley? [Kammass@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) [Lori in MD ] Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Your first 2002 Joni ["mike pritchard" ] Joni and religion ["mike pritchard" ] RE: books and movies NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Joni in 2002NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Joni and religion; NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] books and movies njc ["kerry" ] Re: rickie & joni ["Mark or Travis" ] Joni 's Piano ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Joni's Piano [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) [Michael Paz ] RE: Lord of the Rings njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [TimandMaryPowers@aol.com] Re: Lord of the Rings njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Girls in the Valley? [Randy Remote ] Re: how small is your world? NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Girls in the Valley? [Catherine McKay ] Re: That's an interesting position there, Bobster. [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni and religion now njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni in 2002NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni and religion; NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Lord of the Rings njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [colin ] Re: Girls in the Valley? ["Brenda" ] Re: Joni's Piano [Mags N Brei ] Shoes [was Your first 2002 Joni] NJC [dsk ] apologies NJC ["mike pritchard" ] plane into buildingNJC [colin ] link to storyNJC [colin ] Re: Joni and religion ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: top ten of 2001 - njc [Michael Paz ] Chatters R Us njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Books'n'movies - njc [Michael Paz ] Re: books NJC [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 03:25:22 -0500 From: les@jmdl.com Subject: Today in Joni History: January 5 On January 5 in Joni Mitchell History: 1979: Charles Mingus dies at age 56 in Cuernavaca, Mexico - ------------------------ Search the "Today" database: http://www.jmdl.com/today ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:43:26 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC Brenda wrote: > On 5 Jan 2002, at 1:40, colin wrote: > > > both. However, my concern is with Soon Yi. No matter how old she was, he was her > > father for many years. To then form a sexual relationship with her is abusive. > > bw colin > > > > This is where it gets complicated to me.... > yes it was complicated but still inappropriate. It has to do with boundaries and power and lots of stuff that would need a book to explain!(i am sure you know that anyhow) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:41:36 -0000 From: "owen.duff" Subject: RE: Woody + Soon Yi I read a biography of Woody Allen about a year ago and Soon Yi came across as a bizarre, calculating character who seemed to disregard the feelings of her foster mother completely - probably something to do with her abusive upbringing (she wasn't adopted until she was 5 or 6). Woody would have seen her grow up from being a small child - he and Mia were together from the beginning of the 80s - but he never behaved as a father to any of the children, with the exception of Dylan Farrow, whom he was later accused of molesting. The whole thing is very strange, but from what I can make out, while Woody didn't actually abuse anyone as such (Soon-Yi seems to have had the whole thing planned out to further her career), he behaved absolutely immorally - in Manhattan and other films he mourned decaying values, so he's a hypocrite too. Also, he seemed to have little interest in the raising of the son he had with Mia Farrow, instead lavishing his affection on his son's adopted sister, Dylan. His behaviour is indefensible, but his films are great. Owen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:17:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone have any idea of what this is? >> It's just a re-arranging of the songs on LOTC. Check out the tracklist. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:39:38 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: That's an interesting position there, Bobster. << Not often I don't agree with your position because, >> Well, like I said, I was just speculating. I appreciate your points taken from the bio. I've not read it yet. I still contend that Joni made some musical compromises (intentionally or subliminally) with these records due to her romantic and professional relationship with Larry. I don't say that as a negative, the collaboration bore much fruit. But I think that believing that Klein (who's produced many discs before & since) didn't have some pretty heavy influence here is a bit naive. Again, I don't KNOW, but I do know what I hear. <> Oh great! At sixteen I was a tubbo and had a face with more divots than a par-5 tee box! Thanks for sending me back there! LOL! You're right, of course...I should lighten up on Dancin' Clown. Joni's allowed a fun throwaway or two. After all, if she has fun making records, she's gonna keep doing it, right? ;~) Thanks for the good jabber, John. Joni's use of background vocals is an interesting subject, and I think her multi-tracking of her own voice is one of those things that sets her apart from the rest. I'm thinking of all those great self-harmonies in Court & Spark. Think I'll go play it now! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:53:11 EST From: Abbymusique@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Religion From what I've gathred over the years, I think Joni is a religious person to some degree, but probably keeps it private. First, I saw on a TV interview that she was healed of polio, and seemed to attribute it partly to when she sang Christmas carols while layed up in bed (My mother sings praise songs to God when she is ill and has been healed from all kinds of things without the help of medicine). I read that she had some kind of born-again experience in either the sixties or the seventies at some event. Then I saw on an interview where she prayed and asked God to send her a man who could play pinball, and soon after that she met Larry Klien, who played pinball with her. Also, some of her songs are very inspiring, like Passion Play (When all the slaves are free). In case there's anyone out there that doesn't know, there's a play held once every ten years in Ober-Ammergau, Germany where the death and resurrection of Christ is reinacted, because back in the middle ages everyone in that area was dying of the black plague, and they made a vow to God that if he would heal them, they would enact this play every year to remember what he did. Now it's every ten years in modern times. Anyway, knowing the background to that story, I've always seen this song as one of my favorites, because she almost narrates it like a play: "Enter the multitudes in Exon Blue, In Radiation Rose..." It's like directions you would read on a script for a play. Once I read an article this guy wrote in the paper criticizing this song and acting like it was all about the environment, but think about it. In plays, the characters usually where brighter colors than they would in ordinary life. Sure, there may be a hint in the choice of "exon" but to me the message of the song is clear, and I find it very inspirational. As for Job's Song of Sorrows, Job was very bitter for most of that story, so for Joni to write that song that way doesn't necessarily suggest that she is bitter at God, only that Job was. Another great by her is "Love" on WTRF. I definitely think she has some kind of spiritual life, but probably keeps the details of it to herself. Abby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:00:56 EST From: Kammass@aol.com Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? How much should one pay for arrangement cd's like this? kammy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:19:24 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) In a message dated 1/5/02 12:02:01 AM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << 91-year-old Harry Goldstein and his 89-year-old wife Zelda of 66 years go to their lawyer to get a divorce. >> A little old Jewish man named Irving Cohen was crossing a busy Manhattan intersection when he was struck by a car and knocked to the ground. While waiting for the ambulance to arrive, a policeman removed his jacket and covered the injured man with it. "Are you comfortable, Mr. Cohen?" he asked. "I make a good living," the man replied. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:37:44 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) You know, I could use the old joke and say Fauchja is pronounced "SMITH", all the consonants are silent, but I won't. I got the name from a line in Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant, "Alice didn't live in the restaurant, she lived in the church tower with her husband Ray and Fatcha the dog." I named my dog that, and then decided to go with the weird spelling. I'm not sure how you think it should be pronounced. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:36:06 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) Fauchja! > I'm not sure how you think it should be pronounced. Honestly, I thought ... well ... "f*ck yeah." Thanks for the clarification, though! : ) Lori ~ Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 07:41:10 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: "A little old Jewish man named Irving Cohen was crossing a busy Manhattan intersection when he was struck by a car and knocked to the ground." Bob, Three sons of a jewish mother left England and went to live in the USA, where they prospered. One day, they met and discussed the gifts they were able to give their old mother: David, the first, said "I built a big house for our mother." Henry, the second, said "I sent her a Mercedes with a driver." Alan, the youngest, said "You remember how our mother enjoys reading the bible. Because she now can't see very well, I sent her a remarkable parrot that recites the whole bible. Mama just has to name the chapter and verse." Soon afterwards, a letter of thanks came from their mother. David, the house you built was a bad idea. I live only in one room but I have to clean the whole house. Henry, I am too old to travel. I stay most of the time at home, so I rarely use the Mercedes. And that driver has a drinking problem, it's just awful. But Alan, The chiken was delicious!. Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:01:54 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: books NJC Paz wrote: >>I'll never forget the premise of bringing ice to the Indians.<< Paul Theroux in 'Mosquito Coast' may not have been the first to discuss this premise. "Many years later as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendia was to remember the distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice." Thus reads one of the most famous opening lines in all literature, Gabriel Garcia Marquez's 'One Hundred Years of Solitude'. Gabo's genius was to make the normal (ice) seem extraordinary while making the paranormal (Remedios the Beauty's ability to fly) seem totally normal. The world Gabo portrays in this book is wonderful and if Catherine has not read this book, or started one of the many other good recommendations, then this book is one of the treasures of world literature. Read it. mike in Barcelona np Joe Henderson 'blue bossa' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:58:06 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Your first 2002 Joni >>in that tight little pink halter top and the fuckme pumps.<< First the muumuu and the green go aheads, and now the fuckme pumps. What do they look like? mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:59:59 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Joni and religion >>I hear songs like 'Job's sad song' and i'm confused. The one Joni is talking to in that song is God. He's the one her bitter confession is directed to. But how can you talk, blame and criticize something you don't even believe exists? "You make everything i dread and everything i fear come true" - how come? You think he's nothing, an invention - then why even bother? It's confusing.<< Nuri, You're not the only one who's confused. In Joseph Heller's 'Catch-22', Yossarian and Lieutenant Scheisskopf's wife (neither of whom believe in God) are arguing about Him, and Yossarian says some pretty nasty things about God, including a threat to 'grab that little yokel by His neck and.', and the following dialogue takes place: Lieutenant Scheisskopf's wife- "Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!" Yossarian - "What the hell are you getting so upset about? I thought you didn't believe in God." LSW- "I don't, but the God I don't believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He's not the mean and stupid God you make Him out to be." Y - "Let's have a little more religious freedom between us. You don't believe in the God you want to, and I won't believe in the God I want to. Is that a deal?" does this help? mike in barcelona np ali farke toure - heygana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 17:00:54 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: books and movies NJC Kerry wrote: >>I agree that Fried Green Tomatoes was a great movie and very true to the book. It's just a shame that they had to "clean up" the lesbian content.<< The same thing happened with Spielberg's version of 'The Color Purple'. The film had some nice scenes but the 'lesbian content' in the book was not so much 'cleaned up' as avoided altogether. Are there (m)any films featuring lesbians which were not put in for reasons of titillation? I recall (and enjoyed very much) 'I've heard the mermaids singing' and 'Antonia's Line' as two films which treat lesbianism sensitively but are there other (mainstream) movies which do not treat lesbians as freaks or perverts or a danger to society? The same thing used to happen to prostitutes in films; they always had to pay the price in the end for violating Hollywood's (and Pinewood's) moral codes, meaning being rejected by the hero, getting shot as an innocent bystander, becoming alcoholic or syphilitic or, in the best of worlds, they would be able to 'reform' and leave a positive message for the audience, much in the same way as Cagney turning chicken before going to the electric chair in order to save the kids from idolising him in (insert film title here, Ed.). mike in bcn np Elvis Costello 'tramp the dirt down' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:25:56 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Joni in 2002NJC You are not alone. I'm NOT a mother, but I too will make "useless" ?? trips around the block usually listening to Joni or Diana Krall.......I just plain can think better. I do have one little poodle and five cats waiting for me though. And as all the animals owners know......they DO want your attention just like children. Bree >Ain't motherhood grand? I have to go out for a drive, >on the pretext that we need milk, in order to get some >"me" time - and in order to listen to *my* music. I >suppose the kids sometimes wonder why it takes me so >long just to go to the store and back, but I make a >few extra trips around the block (kind of a waste of >gas, I guess!) > > >______________________________________________________ >Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:27:12 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: Re: Joni and religion; NJC Ha ha ha! Good one, Nuriel. Have you heard this classic? Two Jewish women are kvetching about their "package" vacation. The first woman says, "The food here is terrible!" The second woman says, "Yes. And such small portions!" Lama Bob Murphy wrote: ("when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian.") >> Nuriel wrote: "Well, she *is* a little green!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:29:52 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in 2002 NJC Animals want more attention. I walked out to the trash this morning after having walked my dog in the cold and before coffee. I came back in, and there he was huddled under the throws on my couch with his head sticking out and the those sad beagle eyes. They're worse than kids! Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:32:08 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: "A little old Jewish man named Irving Cohen was crossing a busy Manhattan intersection when he was struck by a car and knocked to the ground." Bob, A young woman brings home her fianci to meet her parents. After dinner, her mother tells her father to find out about the young man. The father invites the fiancee to his study for a drink. "So what are your plans?" the father asks the young man. "I am a Torah scholar," he replies. "A Torah scholar. Hmmm," the father says. "Admirable, but what will you do to provide a nice house for my daughter to live in, as she's accustomed to?" "I will study," the young man replies, "and God will provide for us." "And how will you buy her a beautiful engagement ring, such as she deserves?" asks the father. "I will concentrate on my studies," the young man replies, "God will provide for us." "And children?" asks the father. "How will you support children?" "Don't worry, sir, God will provide," replies the fianci. Later, the mother asks, "How did it go, Honey?" The father answers, "He has no job and no plans, but the good news is he thinks I'm God." Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:52:04 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: books and movies njc >Lori, wondering if she's becoming one of those older, suburban lesbians, >in MD Oh, Lori, now I suppose you'll tell us that you're trading in your Harley for a station wagon! ;>) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:59:14 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: books and movies njc Mack wrote: >Darn, there are a lot of lesbians around here. I like that. Not as much as we do!!! ;>) >Back to the Color Purple. Was watching it with my mother and the scene where celie and shug are kissing came up. I figured my mother would freak and I was pretty embarrassed. She took it pretty well. I kept my mouth shut. I had exactly the same experience. I was kind of cringing because I felt uncomfortable for her, but she made no outward reaction! (I don't know what I was expecting her to do....scream in horror?!? It was so silly.) Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 09:04:46 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: rickie & joni > >>But I like RLj as much as Joni. blasphemy.<< > > not blasphemy, i think they both reflect different parts of our being...rlj > being more emotional/ethereal & jm more emotional/cerebral This is a great way of expressing it, Kate. I was trying to think of the right words. I wanted to say Rickie's lyrics were more pure emotion but that would seem to say that Joni's were less so. This says it very well, I think. Joni almost always writes a very straightforward lyric. Rickie's are often more abstract and impressionistic. This put me off at first. Like Joni with poetry, I thought I smelled a rat. Now I'm beginning to like Rickie's writing style more & more. Rickie communicates impressions & feelings that can take you to all kinds of places. To me, Joni is much more specific and to the point. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 12:54:35 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni 's Piano My latest project for the new year is to put together a kind of desert island disc of Joni's piano tunes on CD for myself and any other JM piano fans, *and I know you're out there ! *. Now before I go any further, I thought I'd ask list members if this has already been done. Has it? If so, I would love a copy. If not, then let's do it! Perhaps there are also some unusual piano gems out there in private collections. In the hope this concept wouldn't be *too* piano overdrive, my list of favourites would surely include : Rainy Night House The Arrangement For Free Blue My Old Man The Last Time I saw Richard River Judgement of the Moon and Stars Blonde in the Bleachers See You Sometime Banquet Let the Wind Carry Me Lesson in Survival Down to You Court & Spark The Same Situation Car on a Hill Shades of Scarlet Conquering Two Grey Rooms ( which, incidentally only ranks a paltry 73 in the JMDL song poll ! ) Whew! Now there's a marathon line-up of about 78 minutes! How much can we get onto one CD ? I'm sure you have noticed the recurring chords and rhythms in many of her piano pieces, as if she was searching for some kind of musical / emotional resolution in them. I wonder if she ever did? Or did she just get bored with piano? or reach a dead end? Whatever, I too, wish she would get back to her piano someday. Comments anyone? Michaelo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:27:29 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Piano In a message dated 1/5/02 1:06:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelo@webnet.qc.ca writes: > Whatever, I too, wish she would get back to her > piano someday. Comments anyone? > > Michaelo > Michaelo, for those of us who were lucky enough to attend the Hommage to Joni in Toronto back in October, she sat at the piano and did a little improvisation. She said she had been working with some unusual chord structures similar to "Paprika Plains". She hasn't lost her touch on the piano, and hopefully we'll hear more on a recording in the near future. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:44:44 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings (NJC) John Irving is one of my other faves besides Tom Robbins and Garp was one of the best novels ever written. I thought they did a great job bringing that to the screen and Robin Williams was brilliant as Garp. I also loved John Lithgow as Roberta Muldoon. Paz NP-Behind Blue Eyes-Pete Townsend Demo Take 2 on 1/3/02 10:36 PM, Rick and Susan at rnsc@shaw.ca wrote: >> From: Murphycopy@aol.com >> I don't know about 'COMPLETE justice', Hell, but for me, "Being There" and >> "The Godfather" are the only two books that immediately come to mind as >> having been made into films that are as good or better than their sources. > > I would add The English Patient to this list. > > Ranger Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 10:56:30 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Lord of the Rings njc just to clarify...my objection with LotR was not that it didn't hold every detail because i myself remember few of the details of the books...its just that i felt it left out a hard to define spirit of the books...some depth or magic or spirituality? but visually it was amazing... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:00:50 EST From: TimandMaryPowers@aol.com Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC In a message dated 1/5/02 2:41:03 AM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > >yes it was complicated but still inappropriate. It has to do with boundaries >and power and lots of stuff that would need a book to explain!(i am sure you know >that anyhow) I actually don't think it's complicated. Fathers should not have sex with their daughters. Some do - and unfortunately, some boys are sexually abused as well. The worst example of this of course is a father who rapes his young child, who is too young to know what's going on. Whenever there is a big difference in age between the man and the woman (say, 20 years or more) there is the risk of it being more like a father-daughter relationship. Plus, Soon Yi was quite young when Woody came into her life and he did serve as at least a sort of substitute father for a while. Plus Mia was her adopted mother, making the whole thing worse - a man who goes from a mother to a daughter has some kind of problem. Then the sexual relationship started when she was pretty young - legally of age, but quite young and certainly a lot younger than he was. Unless he was abusing her before that, which is the question in my mind. There are other cases of abuse of sexual power in a relationship that can get people in trouble. That's why doctors, ministers, priests, and therapists should not have sex with their parishioners/patients. As Colin said, the difference in power is too great. What Woody did, if the relationship is really mutual (hard to believe given the difference in ages but possible) and also if he didn't sexually abuse Soon Yi growing up, is not illegal but is unsavory. It reminds me of the practice of young girls of say 15 or younger marrying much older men, which still happens in some cultures. The parents arrange the marriage so the girl doesn't really have a choice. This also sort of reminds me of polygamy, which is also a situation where young girls are married to much older men and the man is obviously the one in control. My only experience of polygamy fortunately is reading about it. It sounds awful though. Far worse than Woody and Soon Yi is an unfortunate girl I read about who was raped by her stepfather. This girl's mother divorced the stepfather, who then married the girl - she was 13 when they married. She had 4 children with him. I believe this was a true story (reported in a book called Healing the Incest Wound by Courtois) that happened within the last 30 years. The kind of thing that makes you wonder how civilized we are after all. Mary K People hurry by so quickly Don't they hear the melodies In the chiming and the clicking And the laughing harmonies - - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:45:03 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings njc In a message dated 1/5/02 1:53:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > just to clarify...my objection with LotR was not that it didn't hold every > detail because i myself remember few of the details of the books...its just > that i felt it left out a hard to define spirit of the books...some depth > or > magic or spirituality? but visually it was amazing... > I've never read LOTR, only the Hobbit and many many moons ago. I was excited to see Bilbo Baggins was in the script. I wish I could have seen more of the movie. I stood in line for a half hour to get popcorn for my granddaughter LOL. I guess I'll have to go see it again. Anastasia enjoyed it. Didn't fidget once. Chip the glasses and crack the plates! Blunt the knives and bend the forks! That's what Bilbo hates - Smash the bottles and burn the corks! Cut the cloth and tread on the fat! Pour the milk on the pantry floor! Leave the bones on the bedroom mat! Splash the wine on every door! Dump the crocks in a boiling bowl; Pound them up with a thumping pole; And when you've finished, if any are whole, Send them down the hall to roll! That's what Bilbo Baggins hates! So, carefully! carefully! with the plates! LOL!! ~rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:13:53 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? This can't be a legitimate release, can it? With that title and all- Joni would never authorize it...but maybe it's from some country with a different licencing agreement with her. There was that repackage from New Zealand years ago...TheWorld of Joni Mitchell or something like that... RR SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone > have > any idea of what this is? >> > > It's just a re-arranging of the songs on LOTC. Check out the tracklist. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:31:07 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: how small is your world? NJC - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > >>>His mom and my aunt were friends as teenagers and > my aunt recently was at > a gathering serving > tea to Will and his Mum. (yikes!)<<< > > THAT is truly amazing. If we all had time to list friends and relatives that we had in different cities in the world, I wonder how many more of us would find out that we had these things in common? If anyone out there has friends or relatives in Toronto, I'd be curious to know if there's anyone I know (somehow I doubt it, but you never know). Anyone on the list from Kent in England, or has ancestors from there? Just wondering - my grandmother was a Beatrice Acton from Kent - she probably came to Canada about 1910-1915 or so. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:34:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni > import CD. Does anyone > have > any idea of what this is? >> > > It's just a re-arranging of the songs on LOTC. Check > out the tracklist. > What would be the point of this? Is it considered a bootleg? Is it a way of avoiding copyright infringement (if so, I still don't get it.) ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: That's an interesting position there, Bobster. - --- johnirving (or maybe it was John quoting Bob - I'm confused) wrote: > My hunches have always told me that behind the > scenes these pairings > were not Joni's idea. If it WAS a natural evolution, > like she says, why > does she basically abandon the approach on her > current records? > One of the things about evolution is that sometimes nature tries something, it doesn't work out, so it dies off. Maybe this is what happened here (the addition of the Klein gene to the Mitchell mix didn't produce a superior entity, and natural selection killed off the Klein influence! ;) Or, as Lisa Simpson once told Bart, "Look, Bart - it says in this magazine that in a few thousand years people are going to have five fingers - isn't that ridiculous!" ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:48:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Your first 2002 Joni - --- mike pritchard wrote: > >>in that tight little pink halter top and the > fuckme pumps.<< > > First the muumuu and the green go aheads, and now > the fuckme pumps. What do > they look like? > mike in bcn Thank you, mike, for asking the question I wanted to ask but was somehow, uncharacteristically for me, afraid to ask! ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:50:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and religion now njc - --- mike pritchard wrote: > > Nuri, You're not the only one who's confused. > > In Joseph Heller's 'Catch-22', Yossarian and > Lieutenant Scheisskopf's wife > (neither of whom believe in God) are arguing about > Him, and Yossarian says > some pretty nasty things about God, including a > threat to 'grab that little > yokel by His neck and.', and the following dialogue > takes place: Oh bloody hell! I absolutely MUST read Catch-22 again - - it has been too long! ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:53:30 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni in 2002NJC - --- Bree Mcdonough wrote: > You are not alone. I'm NOT a mother, but I too will > make "useless" ?? trips > around the block usually listening to Joni or Diana > Krall.......I just plain > can think better. I do have one little poodle and > five cats waiting for me > though. And as all the animals owners > know......they DO want your attention > just like children. > I forgot to mention that in addition to two kids, I also have one little dog and three cats. Once the animals die, that's it for me - no more pets! By then the kids will be grown and I'll have all the me-time I want - likely by then, I'll be whining about how lonely I am. 'Twas ever thus. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and religion; NJC - --- "Jim L'Hommedieu (Lama)" wrote: > Ha ha ha! Good one, Nuriel. Have you heard this > classic? > > Two Jewish women are kvetching about their "package" > vacation. The first > woman says, > > "The food here is terrible!" > > The second woman says, > > "Yes. And such small portions!" > Omigod - these jokes are so funny, my sides are aching from laughing too hard. This one from Jim reminded me of this woman I worked with years ago (she has since died, so let her RIP) but when we went out as a group to lunch, she'd eat everything and then bitch about how she thought the food might be tainted or something because she was sure she was going to get sick. So she'd complain to the management of the restaurant, bellyache to everyone at the table about how *bad* the food was, would argue to the penny exactly how much her lunch cost (when the rest of us would prefer just to split the tab equally among all of us), and wouldn't leave a tip. How embarassing! (she wasn't Jewish.) ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:59:39 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings njc Mark E. wrote: By the way, Mack, I don't know what you see in Leslie > Howard. I hated him as Ashley Wilkes. Thought he was the one actor who was > miserably miscast and it's taken me years to get past it. Practically used > to ruin the whole movie for me. Oh well. No accounting for taste! hehe Mark. I loved him. I watch the movie and feel just as Scarlett does. Oh Ashley, Ashley. I am in love every time I see him. Me and Ashley at Twelve Oaks. Unfortunately, I get charles, her first husband she married on the rebound. Yuck. I would rather have Melly. Loved him in Intermezzo too. You are right, that taste is a funny thing. hehe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:04:53 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: njc Yea, Mark, it is from "the Magazine" One thing I like about Joni and RLj both is that I can find so many things in both their lyrics. Often don't even understand what Rickie Lee is talking about. That happens with Joni too but not as frequently. Nevertheless, there is plenty that I do understand or I am able to find my own meaning in the words and the music. Would imagine that this is something that Joni fosters and it allows me to expand into areas I would not go otherwise. I cannot put my finger on it but I find a lot of similarities between magazine and pirates. How are you liking Volcano? Thanks for the recommendation. Gonna have to get that one. Had not heard about it. Mack. > > > > I haven't delved too deeply into 'The Magazine' yet and I think that's the > album this is from, right Mack? > > Incidentally, if any of you Rickie Lee fans haven't gotten the 'Live at Red > Rocks' cd yet, do not hesitate for one millisecond! Run don't walk to your > nearest record store or log into CDNow or the first online store you can get > to and buy or order this cd! It's a recording of a show from the 'Flying > Cowboys' tour and it is fantastic! The band is hot and Rickie is so upbeat > and in beautiful voice! The show must have been a major high for all the > performers and the people who attended it because I can feel that vibe > pouring out of my cd player everytime I pop this recording in! > > Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:18:01 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC TimandMaryPowers@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/5/02 2:41:03 AM, colin@tantra-apso.com writes: > > > > >yes it was complicated but still inappropriate. It has to do with boundaries > >and power and lots of stuff that would need a book to explain!(i am sure you > know > >that anyhow) > > I actually don't think it's complicated. Fathers should not have sex with > their daughters. No but this case is different hence my use of the word complicated. I agree with everything else you said. > Some do - and unfortunately, some boys are sexually abused > as well. many more than you'd think > The > kind of thing that makes you wonder how civilized we are after all. Unfortunately people have chosen to get up in arms about 'stranger danger' peodophiles when in fact the vast majority of peodophilia is committed against the peodophiles own children. Children are in much more danger form their own parents and other relatives. It is not civilized to ignore this fact. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:14:41 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? On 5 Jan 2002, at 15:34, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni > > import CD. Does anyone > > have > > any idea of what this is? >> > > > > It's just a re-arranging of the songs on LOTC. Check > > out the tracklist. > > > What would be the point of this? Is it considered a > bootleg? Is it a way of avoiding copyright > infringement (if so, I still don't get it.) Originally I thought this was a bootleg, but I've since found out that the label it's released on, Poptones, is a Sony company in Japan. And since Sony administers Joni's publishing, maybe they were able to convince her and Warners to allow them to license the master recordings and package it differently for that market and for Europe. Anything is possible, but it's highly unlikely that a Sony associated company would pursue something like this without having rights. The cover is absolutely hideous. Brenda n.p.: Groove Armada - "Edge Hill" (One of the few albums lately to get my attention simply from the title, "Goodbye Country, Hello Nightclub.") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:16:47 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Joni's Piano Let me add to Jimmy's bit *hi Jimmy* about Joni at the piano in Toronto...we were so surprised! and hopeful...and I am sure it had everything to do with us all encouraging her to play ... she seemed almost shy or reluctant or something...said something about her piano chops being a bit rusty ... let me assure you...she is not rusty!!! Joni at the piano is something that Brei and I have longed for ... what an incredible moment...which did seem to go on for a very long time..she walked over with grace, sat down and just played...almost as if she was meditating over the keys..long lost friends perhaps. If you ask Ashara and everyone else sitting on that side of the stage, they can tell you about the look on her face..and I think Pearl has the photos on the site to demonstrate what I mean. And of course, at the end of the night, when it was all over..we looked at each other in disbelief that she even played at all. Anyone know how long it has been since Joni was at the piano in concert? Mags and Brei - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/5/02 1:06:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, > michaelo@webnet.qc.ca writes: > > > > Whatever, I too, wish she would get back to her > > piano someday. Comments anyone? > > > > Michaelo > > > > Michaelo, for those of us who were lucky enough to attend the Hommage > to Joni > in Toronto back in October, she sat at the piano and did a little > improvisation. She said she had been working with some unusual chord > > structures similar to "Paprika Plains". She hasn't lost her touch on > the > piano, and hopefully we'll hear more on a recording in the near > future. > > Jimmy ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:47:21 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Shoes [was Your first 2002 Joni] NJC mike pritchard wrote: > > >>in that tight little pink halter top and the fuckme pumps.<< > > First the muumuu and the green go aheads, and now the fuckme pumps. What do > they look like? The ones to go with Jimmy's pink halter top might have thin high heels and little poofs of downy feathers on the band that goes over the top of the foot, and may even be pink too. I think the high heel is the "pump" part (where did that name come from anyway?). Other types have platform soles and a broad front band. In all of them the wearer's toes show. What makes them fuckme shoes is that none of them have a back or any kind of strap around the heel so they can be slipped out of easily, as in... in a hurry. In ads they're usually called slides, maybe because your foot just slides in. Not nearly as interesting a name. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 21:18:20 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: apologies NJC with the loss of my files recently I am unable to deal with mail from people who have been in touch with me off-list. Was it Mags who wanted to talk about literature? If not, who? If anyone out there is / was expecting to hear from me about something, please remind me. Thanks, mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:32:35 +0000 From: colin Subject: plane into buildingNJC a 15 yr old boy flew a small aircraft into the 20th floor of the Bank of America building in Tampa Florida. he was followed by Coast gaurd helicopter because the plane did not have clearance. No reports od casualties tho i cannot imagine the boy survived. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:33:59 +0000 From: colin Subject: link to storyNJC http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/05/tampa.crash/index.html - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:41:42 -0000 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Her last marriage to Larry was rather eclectic. In her words they had a 'Buddhist, Christian, Jewish wedding ceremony, with a little American Indian thrown in! (laughs). That was from a Channel 4 Interview in 1991 when she was exhibiting some paintings in London. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Nuriel Tobias To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 2:27 AM Subject: Re: Joni and religion > Kakki wrote: > "She certainly isn't some religious fundamentalist or particularly devout about religion but she does have beliefs. She has spoken of them a number of times in interviews. From what I can gather from listening to her she is a kind of Buddhistic Christian with a great appreciation for Native spirituality. ;-)" > > That's what i wanted to know, Kakki. You're so lucky. You can hear interviews with Joni sharing her point of views (Kakki, you even met her face to face for such an amazing conversation) - but me, i never heard anything here in Israel from Joni (not about Joni) in the media other than what i could learn from her lyrics. That was untill i joined the list and even now, as i learn something new about Joni everyday, there are so many things i still realy want to know, and this was one of them. I thought that Joni was a non-religious person only from what seemed to be a non-religious feeling in her lyrics, but that was just my eyes/mind trying to work out the meaning of things, and like i said, i was confused and i knew you guys would tell me what you know. And that was all just an introduction to - Thank you, Kakki:)! > > You and Colin spoke of some ways of belief and of whom one believes in. > (I used the word God in general just to make it easier to understand and for us to talk about) - it was good to read your thoughts and opinions. > > Love, > > Nuri > > p.s. Just to help you understand how sometimes here in Israel (and i'm sure it happenes everywhere) the media makes a mess of facts - > When Joni and her daughter found eachother, the most important news-paper here named 'Yediot Acharonot' (Up to date news in hebrew) wrote that the only thing Joni was sad about when she met Kilauren was that Kilauren didn't have the chance to meet her Grandmother because Myrtle was already dead. When i joined the list and found out that Myrtle was very much alive - i was realy happy. I'm a grannyboy, hehe:) > > That reminds me that i do believe that with that happy ending of the Mitchell women story - Joni should get the Granny award :) > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! > Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:05:35 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: top ten of 2001 - njc Hi Jerry I have been meaning to do this too. In no particular order: Jonatha Brooke-Steady Pull Ryan Adams-Gold Dave Matthews Band-Everyday Creole Moon-Dr. John David Lahm-More Jazz Takes On Joni Dave Matthews Band-Lillywhite Sessions Lucinda Williams-Essence Govt' Mule-Deep End Vol 1 Jill Scott-Expierence Jill Scott Alien Love Child-Live and Beyond (Eric Johnson) not really released in 2001 but I found it this last Sept. Gregg Cagno-Present Moment Days Runner Up Alicia Keys-Songs in A Minor I like this lady and think there is better things to come from her. Paz on 1/4/02 6:24 AM, Jerry Notaro at notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu wrote: > Haven't seen our annual list member wrap up so I'll start it. I always > enjoy reading what other list members think. > > Poses - Rufus Wainwright > Songs in A Minor - Alicia Keys > Time Sex Love - Mary Chapin Carpenter > O Brother Where Art Thou - Soundtrack > Missundaztood - Pink > Laura Nyro - Angel In the Dark > Lea DeLaria - Play It Cool > Tim Buckley - Morning Glory: The Tim Buckley Anthology > Gillian Welch - Time > Hedwig and the Angry Inch - Soundtrack > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 20:02:58 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Chatters R Us njc Willy the shake, Jamie Zoob and I are in the JMDL chatroom if anyone cares to join us. ~rose in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:13:24 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Books'n'movies - njc Thems's figting words big biy. I think Irving is wonderfully twisted human being (kinda like our own WallyK HI WallY!) and everything that comes out of his mouth is brilliant. It's wonderful to see his characters come to life on the big screen though. I loved Kinski as the bear in Hotel New Hampshire. Keep passing the open windows, Paz on 1/4/02 8:06 AM, Gerald Notaro at notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu wrote: > Steve Dulson wrote: > >> I thought "Doctor Zhivago" was a much better film than book. > > I thought that Cider House Rules also was a much better movie than book. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:39:43 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: books NJC Funny you whould mention another one of my all time faves. Cien Aqos de Soledad is amazing as well as the rest of Marquez' work. I also am a big fan of Julio Cortazar who wrote a book called Hopstotch which can be read front to back like any normal book or by following a key in the front of the book and hopping around. Thanks for the memory. Paz on 1/5/02 7:01 AM, mike pritchard at ink08@hotmail.com wrote: Paz wrote: >>I'll never forget the premise of bringing ice to the Indians << Paul Theroux in Mosquito Coast9 may not have been the first to discuss this premise. 3Many years later as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendia was to remember the distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice.2 Thus reads one of the most famous opening lines in all literature, Gabriel Garcia Marquez9s One Hundred Years of Solitude9. Gabo9s genius was to make the normal (ice) seem extraordinary while making the paranormal (Remedios the Beauty9s ability to fly) seem totally normal. The world Gabo portrays in this book is wonderful and if Catherine has not read this book, or started one of the many other good recommendations, then this book is one of the treasures of world literature. Read it. mike in Barcelona np Joe Henderson blue bossa9 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #10 **************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?