From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #9 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, January 5 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 009 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Girls in the Valley? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: how small is the world [Mags N Brei ] Re: Joni in 2002NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Les, a tiny question (non-Joni) [Les Irvin ] Re: Woody Allen + Dianne Wiest - NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Les, a tiny question (non-Joni) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: njc ["Mark or Travis" ] That's an interesting position there, Bobster. [johnirving ] how small is your world? NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] rickie & joni ["Kate Bennett" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:34:16 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Girls in the Valley? In a message dated 1/4/02 9:54:05 PM, michaelo@webnet.qc.ca writes: << CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone have any idea of what this is? >> Yeah, and what's this SIQUOMB all about? ;-) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:36:25 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion In a message dated 1/4/02 10:23:41 PM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian. >> Well, she *is* a little green! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: how small is the world ooops!!!! sorry Stephen!! I completely forgot about that one. And btw, my sister wrote and told me she was at the Hard Rock Cafe in downtown Toronto and she sat at a table and looked up at the wall to see one of Joni's guitars! maybe next trip ;-) love, Mags - --- Stephen Epstein wrote: > Mags- what a great discovery!! > My small world with JMDLers is that YOU live a 3 minute car ride from > my > Mother's house where I grew up!!! > Best > Stephen in Vancouver ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:44:11 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni in 2002NJC - --- colin wrote: > > but I make a > > few extra trips around the block (kind of a waste > of > > gas, I guess!) > > so it is YOU who is ruining the ozone layer! > That's right. It's all my fault. Mea culpa. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:50:00 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > Bob wrote: > > "Dancing Clown's got nuttin' to do with horses. > Except for how she came up with the character's > names, that is...the song itself doesn't have > anything to do with horses" > > Naming the characters with racehorses names has SO > much to do with the song. Sure, it's a gang of men > and 1 woman kinda song - but once i read what Mimi > posted on the JMDL site, it was so nice - i mean, to > think that Joni could talk about the gang in the > song as if they're all horses! hehe - and that high > yellow Suzie! hehe - too late, Bob, ever since i > read it in the lyric glossary, whenever i hear the > song, i'm laughing cause the thought of men and > women as racehorses is so funny! :) > I remember that discussion coming up and for some reason, I remember it as being cows (cattle, bulls) rather than horses! I've never seen the video for this but I had created one in my own mind - it would be animated, with the characters being played by different types of bovines. The high-yella babe would be a Jersey cow naturally (what pretty cows these are!); Rowdy Yates would be one of those rust-coloured types (sorry, I don't know the name) and the other guy would be a black Angus. Fortunately, I can't draw, so if anyone wants the idea, it's yours for a song. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:52:37 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion Bob Murphy wrote: ("when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian.") >> "Well, she *is* a little green!" Bob, Four Jewish ladies are playing a game of cards in Miami Beach. The first lady sighs. The second lady sighs and says, "Oy!" The third lady nods, sighs and says, "Oy vey!" The fourth lady chimes in: "Enough talk about the children already. Let's get back to the game." Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:46:09 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: NJC Les, a tiny question (non-Joni) At 1/3/2002 10:40 AM, Nuriel Tobias wrote: >p.s. And you know, Jimmy, some of the e-mail find-outs at the gallery >won't open. Guess it's cuase they're no longer members or just didn't want >us to know. Yep... each person who registers has the option of displaying their email address or not. Fortunately, most people choose to display it. http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/register.cfm Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:58:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Dianne Wiest - NJC - --- Brenda wrote: > I am a really big Woody Allen fan. Can't help > myself and I don't care who he > sleeps with. It's only fascinating from the > standpoint of his own theory of > true artists creating their own moral universe (one > of the themes of Bullets > over Broadway and Sweet and Lowdown). > ... > And Dianne Wiest's performances are the main reason > why I love some of Woody's > movies - Radio Days, Bullets ("I never play frumps > or virgins!"), Hannah and > Her Sisters and even the dreary September. I've enjoyed a lot of Woody's movies. His habit of choosing younger and younger women/girls to be his lover is distasteful to me. I don't understand how anyone could be sexually attracted to that man unless it's a power thing. He can be funny as hell, but he is so neurotic and years of going to a shrink have done nothing except make him worse, although it has provided a lot of fodder for his stories. And let's face it, he's not exactly sexy-looking so why anyone would want to go to bed with him is beyond me, but there's no accounting for taste. Hannah and her Sisters will always be special for me because it was during this film that I guess I actually started going into labour for my daughter. Except I didn't realize it was labour pains at the time, it was more of a twinge. Anyway, I got to enjoy the whole film (an afternoon matinee - must have been skipping off work again, or I think I had already started mat leave a few days earlier and had probably been to see the ob/gyn that day. Got home, had dinner, watched TV, water broke just after 9 pm, got to hospital around 10, daughter was born at 2 a.m. Maybe I should have called her Hannah, but I didn't think of it at the time. Also very much enjoyed the Purple Rose of Cairo. And I agree - Diane Wiest is special. ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:04:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Just keep this in mind...with the possible exception > of Cheech & Chong (a novelty throw-in that works > splendidly) & the double tracked Indian voice in > DJRD, Joni never used other's vocals upfront in her > pre-Klein period, nor has she done so in her > post-Klein period. But lo & behold, on > WTRF/DED/CMIARS, we get all these duets and vocal > throw-ins with people who JUST HAPPENED to have big > hits at the time! What a coincidence! > > My hunches have always told me that behind the > scenes these pairings were not Joni's idea. If it > WAS a natural evolution, like she says, why does she > basically abandon the approach on her current > records? > You're probably right. Ultimately, it doesn't matter who does these other voices - it could be Jack the Janitor for that matter. They're usually minor parts of the song and so could be sung by anyone, so why drag all these different guys into the studio to record a line or two if not for marketing purposes? It was likely the Evil Klein's idea (gee, I wish Don Rowe hadn't left the list - please, Don, come back - we need you!) ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:07:14 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Les, a tiny question (non-Joni) At 1/3/2002 07:22 AM, Nuriel Tobias wrote: >I was wondering, is there a list with all JMDL folks email addresses? I've always felt that the list of people subbed to the list should be kept private - unless, of course, they choose to reveal themselves! Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:14:16 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) In a message dated 1/4/02 10:53:53 PM, nuriel@wowmail.com writes: << Four Jewish ladies are playing a game of cards in Miami Beach. >> A Jewish grandmother was walking along the beach in Miami with her 5 year-old grandson when a wave suddenly swept ashore and dragged the little boy out to sea. Horrified, the little old lady screamed up to the skies, "God, please, I beg of you, please give my precious grandson back to me! I will do anything, anything, dear God, if you will just return him safely!" Suddenly another wave washed ashore, depositing the unharmed boy at his grandmother's feet. Looking back into the heavens she said, "He had a hat." --Bob, who learned everything he knows about comedy from Borsht Belt comedians. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:15:38 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Les, a tiny question (non-Joni) Thank you, Les. I understand. Respect, Nuriel - --- Les Irvin wrote: >At 1/3/2002 07:22 AM, Nuriel Tobias wrote: >>I was wondering, is there a list with all JMDL folks email addresses? > >I've always felt that the list of people subbed to the list should be kept >private - unless, of course, they choose to reveal themselves! >Les _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion, now Jewish lady jokes (NJC) Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: "A Jewish grandmother was walking along the beach in Miami with her 5 year-old grandson". Bob, 91-year-old Harry Goldstein and his 89-year-old wife Zelda of 66 years go to their lawyer to get a divorce. Puzzled, the lawyer asks, "Why did you wait all this time if you were both so miserable for so long?" Zelda Goldstein sighs and says: "We were waiting for the kids to die." Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:29:21 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings njc > Gone with the Wind- I read it as a kid then saw the movie & felt it was > every bit as good as the book... This one came to my mind as well, Kate. It was an amazing feat of story-telling that they managed to take a 1000 plus page novel and get so much of it into a 4 hour movie. But they still cut things out. Scarlett had children by all three of her husbands in the book but she only had Bonnie in the movie. But all of the important elements & characters and scenes from that book are in that film and it never lags or bores. It holds your interest. By the way, Mack, I don't know what you see in Leslie Howard. I hated him as Ashley Wilkes. Thought he was the one actor who was miserably miscast and it's taken me years to get past it. Practically used to ruin the whole movie for me. Oh well. No accounting for taste! Other people have pointed it out & I completely agree that film & written literature are two different animals and adapting a book or short story to the screen is a thorny proposition. Unless you're doing a 6 part A&E miniseries like the excellent 'Pride and Prejudice', it really is nigh to impossible to put everything in a long, complex novel into a theatrical film. I haven't seen LOtR yet but I've read about the omission of the Tom Bombadil episode. It is a wonderful part of 'The Fellowship of the Ring' but ultimately it really doesn't do anything to further the story or contribute to the subsequent plotline. That's something that a film maker has to consider. He or she only has a certain amount of time in which to tell a story if a film is to be considered a viable vehicle for release. So what is not absolutely essential to telling that story or developing the characters often has to be sacrificed. Otherwise the movie can become overly long or unevenly paced. A film whose main objective is to tell a story (and that's not saying that the main objective of all film is to tell a story) has to be constructed with pacing and continuity in mind. Too much information can confuse or bore an audience. Dulson, I almost agree with you about 'Dr. Zhivago'. That is a masterfully written script in that it captures the essence of a pretty sprawling literary work. Ultimately the film stands on its own as almost a separate work. The book, however, is beautifully written and re-reading it about 15 or so years ago, I found I appreciated it a lot more than the first time. It's very much in the tradition of Tolstoy in a lot of ways. A lot of characters caught up in large historical events whose paths cross. Russian novels can be a bear to keep all the characters straight. The Merchant/Ivory adaptations of E. M. Forster are for the most part extremely faithful to the novels. We just watched 'A Room With a View' on dvd recently, however, & I think I finally figured out why I think 'Howard's End' is the better film. 'A Room With a View' does not capture the depth of the book for me. There's a lightness about it that makes it more fun but does not do the novel justice. 'Howard's End' on the other hand is a much fuller realization of Forster's book and definitely has a dark side to it. There have also been two excellent film adaptations of Thomas Hardy novels. 'Far From the Madding Crowd' with Julie Chrisy, Terrence Stamp, Alan Bates & Peter Finch was quite faithful to the book if I remember right and Roman Polanski's beautiful 'Tess' is another one that follows the novel very closely. I'm still excited about seeing 'Lord of the Rings'. I'm actually a little amazed that Jackson was allowed to make three separate movies and, considering that the first one is nearly 3 hours long, I can't help but believe that there's some substance to it. I can't imagine a 3 hour Star Wars movie. Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:36:58 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: njc > RLJ gives me strength when I need it. Gives me the righteous indignation I > need to face the detractors, the homophobes, THEM. Those who don't > understand, don't care to, don't try, and never will. Those who want to live > their lives and mine too. Those who are stuck in the mud, and like it. > > Question: Polly and I went to the circus. Polly got hit with a rolling pin. > We got even with the circus. We bought tickets but we didn't go in. -RLj > > Know how I have interpreted that but curious to how others have done the same. > Interested to hear. > I haven't delved too deeply into 'The Magazine' yet and I think that's the album this is from, right Mack? Incidentally, if any of you Rickie Lee fans haven't gotten the 'Live at Red Rocks' cd yet, do not hesitate for one millisecond! Run don't walk to your nearest record store or log into CDNow or the first online store you can get to and buy or order this cd! It's a recording of a show from the 'Flying Cowboys' tour and it is fantastic! The band is hot and Rickie is so upbeat and in beautiful voice! The show must have been a major high for all the performers and the people who attended it because I can feel that vibe pouring out of my cd player everytime I pop this recording in! Mark E. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:35:23 -0600 From: johnirving Subject: That's an interesting position there, Bobster. My hunches have always told me that behind the scenes these pairings were not Joni's idea. If it WAS a natural evolution, like she says, why does she basically abandon the approach on her current records? Harlem in Havana could potentially have lots of vocal throw-ins, but it doesn't. Same with "Love Puts On A New Face"...lots of male parts in that one, but sung by Joni. Same with "Facelift" & "No Apologies". And guess what? The songs are better because of it... Interesting position, Bob. Not often I don't agree with your position because, god knows, you are so damned right most of the time. It's frightening really. -Thanks for your take on her albums the last few mails. I really enjoyed your insite. I think Joni's use of 'other' voices did arise out of her own convictions. For instance, her interest in using Jimmy Swaggert on DED. As much as I enjoy Rod Steiger in film and on this disk, using Jimmy Swaggert would have put DED into an entirely different realm as a protest record. It would run the risk of 'dating' the material, -and certainly the risk of legal action, that said, Swaggert would have put teeth into the disk more solid than the soft metaphor of using Rod. - --I have to say I loved reading that quote attributed to a miffed Steiger when Joan continually put in her 2 cents on his performance: "Larry, would you please get that woman out of here!" -Or something to that effect. I can sooo see that happening. Of course, it's the techno toys of Larry that help put her into this mode. Again, all that is mentioned in the Bio, like her benefit performance that leads to the Indian track on Lacota, seem to be at Joni's urging. There were 2 other DED mentions in the Bio that struck me as interesting: One, The mention that Thomas Dolby came into the project constructing and layering HIS production of the songs....and that none of his constructions were used. (Who says Joni was led about on this project?) And the other quote attributed to Larry Klein about what he liked most about Joni in recording: basically, that she always worked from what's best to convey each song. There was no formula or rote to the process. She would try something and if it didn't work, --on to something else. Anything and everything, but EVERYTHING to the service of conveying the power of a song. -I thought that was a marvelous insite into what makes Joni so vital to all of us; why her music unfolds in surprising ways; and why she's probably such an exhilarating bitch to work with. :-) On a side notes: I found it interesting that Lokota and Snakes and Ladders began as musical compositions Larry Klein wrote for someone else that Joni 'appropriated' because she like the music. I've often wondered how Joni went from 'open' guitar to 'open' piano. Part of it's easy, the hand takes on a particular spacing when playing a standard chord based on thirds. To 'open' the chords, all one would do is find different shapes. I would imagine Joni has particular hand shapes that she likes to use at the piano. -Is that possible? A few shapes would become 'home' and anchor her movement across the keyboard. - -I would imagine that's how Woodstock went from piano to guitar. Yes? Since she probably didn't transcribe it, what she did was take the root chord shape of Woodstock and set her guitar to that open chord and went for the rest from there. Is my sleuthing correct on this??? As for Dancing Clown: Quit being such a logical ol' fuddy duddy, Bobbo. You have to put your mind back into a carefree (?) sixteen mode. - -Happiness is the dance floor. Put on this disk. Search the closet for the old floods and grease the hair back. I'm positive this will open that song up for you. (Does the missus still have bobby socks?) - --Before I go, thanks to everyone for such a fun read with 2002 Vol. 4. Delightful joni jabber and not an ounce of rancor. You guys rock. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 04:03:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: my resume i simply must break the njc rule because i need to reach as many of you as possible. please bear with me and forgive me. i am aware that i am asking too big a favor of you but i have no other way of doing this. as you know, i am looking for an opportunity to leave argentina as soon as i can. the situation is extremely dramatic for me, and my livelihood, to say the least, is at stake. i have prepared a short version of my vitae -- i tried to fit 22 years of experience on only one page. i will post it to anyone that requests it. my only chance to leave this country is with a job offer. if you think that you might be able to help, please write to me and i will send you my vitae/resume. i hope you will pardon this intrusion. as it is, i am swallowing enough pride to inflate ten prima donnas by sending this message. thank you for your consideration. wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:41:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: how small is your world? NJC >>>His mom and my aunt were friends as teenagers and my aunt recently was at a gathering serving tea to Will and his Mum. (yikes!)<<< THAT is truly amazing. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:41:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: rickie & joni >>But I like RLj as much as Joni. blasphemy.<< not blasphemy, i think they both reflect different parts of our being...rlj being more emotional/ethereal & jm more emotional/cerebral ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #9 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?