From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2002 #8 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, January 4 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 008 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Lord of the Rings njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] top 10 (njc) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Fauchja@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) [Lori in MD ] Grammy observations (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Grammy observations (NJC) ["Brenda" ] Re: Books and movies njc [Lori in MD ] grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc [Lazyasz@aol.com] Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars [Penny ] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars ["Marian" ] Re: first kiss ["Kakki" ] Re: Woody Allen + Dianne Wiest - NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Books and movies njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Joni and religion [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) [colin ] talk about disrepect. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: how small is your world? NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Re: DED redux ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: talk about disrepect. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: how small is the world ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: talk about disrepect/Tony Bennett Duets NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [colin ] Re: Joni and religion [colin ] Re: Robert Johnson on Mars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC ["Brenda" ] Re: Joni and religion [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and religion ["Kakki" ] Girls in the Valley? ["michael o'malley" ] Re: Joni and religion [Nuriel Tobias ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:51:31 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Lord of the Rings njc garret wrote >>>pace is required for a "blcokbuster". AT just under three hours, it was imperative for Peter Jackson to keep everything moving and interesting for the general public.<<<< true...if someone is making decisions solely in those terms then there is an element of depth & subtlety that gets left out which is unfortunate, imo... debra wrote >>>It did surprise me that the movie was such an action feature rather than the magical, philosophical and character-driven story I remember<<< yes...i felt these things were almost completely left out but i believe there would have been room for some of this if some of the battle scenes were shortened a bit... hell wrote >>>I'd be interested if anyone CAN name a movie that does COMPLETE justice to the written form!<<< Gone with the Wind- I read it as a kid then saw the movie & felt it was every bit as good as the book... even though i found the film lacking i would recommend the film for its visual stunningness & great scary monsters! i will see parts 2 & 3 for this alone & enjoy the movie for what it is... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:56:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... <> Just keep this in mind...with the possible exception of Cheech & Chong (a novelty throw-in that works splendidly) & the double tracked Indian voice in DJRD, Joni never used other's vocals upfront in her pre-Klein period, nor has she done so in her post-Klein period. But lo & behold, on WTRF/DED/CMIARS, we get all these duets and vocal throw-ins with people who JUST HAPPENED to have big hits at the time! What a coincidence! My hunches have always told me that behind the scenes these pairings were not Joni's idea. If it WAS a natural evolution, like she says, why does she basically abandon the approach on her current records? Harlem in Havana could potentially have lots of vocal throw-ins, but it doesn't. Same with "Love Puts On A New Face"...lots of male parts in that one, but sung by Joni. Same with "Facelift" & "No Apologies". And guess what? The songs are better because of it... Just food for thought. Bob NP: James Cotton, "down at your buryin'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:02:11 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: top 10 (njc) 1. Rufus Wainwright, _Poses_: The grower to his debut's shower, this paean to excess un-camps camp, staking its tent firmly in the wilds of over-the-top, uncontrollable and uncontrolled emotion and desire. Nestled in arrangements both more rock and more baroque than the first album's, never has excess sounded so, well, *sincere.* A masterwork awaiting your discovery. 2. Mary J. Blige, _No More Drama_: Speaking of un-camping camp, this girl samples the theme from _The Young and the Restless_--in a song called "No More Drama," no less--and makes it work (here's the zinger)*without irony.* Mary proves, again, that no singer working in soul--scratch that: in *music*--today can deliver emotions as truthfully and as uniquely as she. Even when the emotion in question merely involves getting crunk upon it with your peeps in the dancery. 3. Bob Dylan, _Love and Theft_: Tweedly dum and tweedly dee indeed. Who knew what ribald jester lay within Dylan's increasingly craggy exterior? Anyone who saw him leering at blonde coeds in his recent tour audiences, that's who. The music here consists mostly of genre exercises, albeit damn good ones, but the album's real surprise and pleasure is its humor, whereby Elder Statesman #1 finally proves his command over *every* verbal mode imaginable. 4. Jill Scott, _Experience 826+_: Live albums are supposed to suck, right? Well, try this one, which outdoes the studio record by at least half. Fully reimagined tracks highlight the boho sista's ability to wail, beatbox, tickle your funny bone, and win your heart. See a trend? For such an awful year, 2001's best music was big on laughs and love. Somehow that makes perfect sense. 5. Sam Phillips, _Fan Dance_: Sam's usual vanilla melodies and acid pith sound here like they were recorded on a Wurlitzer. One of the best marriages of songs and production ever. Live she played the piano backing tracks straight into her microphone from a tinny tape recorder--which she then proceeded to shake violently. If all singer-songwriters were this funny, they'd also be this relevant. 6. Radiohead, _Amnesiac_: In my book these guys are not so much the world's best as the world's only rock band left--even during knob-twiddling experiments like this one. The music in Thom Yorke's head seems to leap forth fully formed like an offspring of Zeus. The best part? With a good pair of phones you can transplant these quirky kids straight from his head to yours. Sweet, fucked up dreams. 7. Maxwell, _Now_: Somehow amidst all the hype around the decade-old neo-soul revolution, this boy still found the space and tenacity to turn the grooves of his earlier records into real songs. Sure, at times he sounds just like Prince--but Prince rules, remember? This bouncyfunkysmooth record is made for vertical and horizontal dancing, while the studio cover of Kate Bush's "This Woman's Work" outdoes both her original and his previous unplugged rendition. When he breaks from the falsetto, so does your heart. 8. Daft Punk, _Discover_: "One More Time" is the worst song on this record, nothing more than listenable Cher without the warble or the Bob Mackie. The ringing chimes and flatulent vocals across the other tracks remind of you of that time when hip-hop sounded just like house and it all wore day-glo. When was that time--1989 or never? All of the above. 9. Yahzarah, _Hear Me_: Indie labels aren't just for angsty white boys with too much Camus on their hands. They're also for nurturing the quirkyjazzy talents of this former Badu girl. Her voice is a trumpet unzipping your trousers--on the rooftop. Sultry, sassy, and smooth. 10. Syleena Johnson, _Chapter 1: Love, Pain & Forgiveness_: Her tone ranges from Tina Turner to Toni Braxton, always raising a quiet storm not suffered since the death of Phyllis Hyman. If churchgoing Lane Bryant black women made amazingly melodic contemporary R&B records they'd sound like this. 10. The Strokes, _Is This It_ Singles: Aaliyah, "We Need a Resolution" Blu Cantrell, "Hit 'Em Up Style (Oops)" Britney Spears, "I'm a Slave 4 U" Maxwell, "Lifetime" Mary J. Blige, "Family Affair" and "No More Drama" Garbage, "Androgyny" Madonna, "Don't Tell Me" Janet, "All For You" 'NSYNC, "Gone" (though Shai could've sung it better) Kylie Minogue, "Can't Get You Out of My Head" Missy Elliott feat. Nelly Furtado, "Get Ur Freak On" remix Basement Jaxx, "Romeo" No Doubt, "Hey Baby" - --Michael ===== ____________________________________________________ "I could do better But there's no one quite like you." - --Maxwell, "No One" / Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:10:10 EST From: Fauchja@aol.com Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... Bob, Thanks for your correction. I stand corrected. I like Dancing Fool as well. I think there's a wimsey (sp) there that only peeks out of alot of Joni's music. There's an energy there that escapes the heavy-handed production. I agree that this album and DED is extremely over-produced. For that matter, Cool Water is very over-produced, but is saved by the interplay of the Joni/Willie vocals. And I just listened to the radio interview Joni did with Capital Radio in England after CMIARS came out. Fauchja ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) Fauchja, I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but is "Fauchja" pronounced the way I think it is? ; ) Lori ~ Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:21:00 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Grammy observations (NJC) Two observations about the Grammy nods: This strikes me as the best set of Album of the Year nominees in recent memory: Acoustic Soul, India.Arie Love and Theft, Bob Dylan Stankonia, Outkast All That You Can't Leave Behind, U2 O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Various Artists While not the absolute best albums of the time period under consideration, they are all very strong. I've also long been saying that this was quietly the year of the soul woman, with countless wonderful recordings by Afr-Am women both above and below the radar screen. All of the nominees for best R&B album and five of the six nominees for R&B song are by women. I told you so. :-) - --Michael NP: King Brit presents Sylk 130 (featuring Alison Moyet), "Skipping Stones" [awesome track and album, BTW] ===== ____________________________________________________ "I could do better But there's no one quite like you." - --Maxwell, "No One" / Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:28:42 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Grammy observations (NJC) On 4 Jan 2002, at 11:21, Michael Yarbrough wrote: > Two observations about the Grammy nods: > > This strikes me as the best set of Album of the Year > nominees in recent memory: > > Acoustic Soul, India.Arie > Love and Theft, Bob Dylan > Stankonia, Outkast > All That You Can't Leave Behind, U2 > O Brother, Where Art Thou?, Various Artists > > While not the absolute best albums of the time period > under consideration, they are all very strong. > > I agree completely. And to here NARAS chief Michael Greene say that he is glad to see progressive rap poster boys Outkast in the category is a great testimony to at least an effort on the part of the Academy to wake up and be relevant. Brenda n.p.: DJ Krush and Mos Def - "Shinjiro" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:32:12 -0800 (PST) From: Lori in MD Subject: Re: Books and movies njc Kerry wrote, about Fried Green Tomatoes: > It's just a shame that they had to "clean up" the lesbian content. > It's an interesting quandry, though. Do you make a movie that's totally > true to the book or do you strive to make it palatable for a mass > audience? I consider it a wonderful "lesbian movie" because I read the > book and could see (and feel) the love that Ruth and Idgie felt for each > other on the screen. However, my mother enjoyed it and I'm sure did > not see any lesbian content at all. When that movie was first released, I was really annoyed by the "clean up." Now though, I treasure the idea that unless you've read the book, you might not pick up on Ruth and Idgie's real relationship ... so it's a nice little "inside secret," if you will. Lori, wondering if she's becoming one of those older, suburban lesbians, in MD ~ Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:34:36 EST From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc ugh...Bjork's Vespertine got one little nomination while Alicia Keys got six ::puke::. Hooray for India.Arie! The only reason i'll be watching this year is for the Joni tribute. I'll fall over in my chair if they play anything from Hej, DJRD, mingus, or other 80's and 90's stuff. They're such Blueheads. Maybe she'll preview the new album. As far as RLJ goes, I got "The Magazine" the other day and other than Prelude to Gravity(Reminds me a lot of Paprika Plains) and The Real End I don't think i'll like this album very much. Compared to Joni her verse is very freeform and self-contradictory. I feel like i'm being had (ala Bob Dylan). I'm still going to get Pirates though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 12:38:51 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Dancing Fool/Clown/Queen, whatever... Good points, Bob. Interesting. Could be a Geffen thing too, you know. BTW - Are you sure that the Klein period is over? :) He produced BSN and played on TTT so i wonder how much influence he still has on her as a musician/producer. I must say that i never heard anything of Klein's solo/non-Joni music. I searched the AG (audiogalaxy) - found one thing (I'm afraid i don't remember the name of the song/work) but it's never on line. I wonder what his music like. You know, a bit. I always say that Klein's still hanging around her because he knows that the moment she's out of his sight - he'll get a hell of a traditional Joni ex-lover song and i'm sure he fears it more than the devil!!! :) Nuriel _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:49:36 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Hey, SF Bay Area JMDLers Does anyone want to get together to go see Patricia Barber at Yoshi's in Oakland on January 8, 9 or 10th (Tues, Wed, or Thurs)? I'm going for sure on one of those days. Here's a mini-bio of Patricia (who is a favorite of Les Irvin's) with the requisite Joni content: "Critics have always had a tough time pinning down the musical style of pianist/vocalist Patricia Barber. From Chicago and a mainstay at the Green Mill, Barber has become a major force in jazz and music. This, after five CDs in which she pushed the limits as an improviser, singer, and songwriter. Barber matches wit and emotional revelation with inventive playing and delicate conversational phrasing. She can conjure Joni Mitchell as well as the likes of jazz hipsters like Bob Dorough, Mose Allison, and Dave Frishberg. Her latest release is a standards album on Blue Note, Nightclub, a moving document of her unique transformations of jazz standards. Her witty re-inventions of unlikely pop tunes are also unique and refreshing. As a performer and a songwriter, Barber continually grapples with contradiction, achieving complex balances between aloofness and intimacy, deep feeling and sheer fun. She is riveting as a pianist, pushing herself and her band members to produce stunning improvisations. Her singing can con vey both cool detachment and frank vulnerability." - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:21:19 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: re: hairy reading (njc) Hi Walt. Gee, I'm beginning to think that EVERYTHING in the news about and from Boston is bad. (We really do need some good PR around here - and a new governor, but enough of that...) So, just for fun, I tried to think of some well known "good guys" with facial hair... Moses, Jesus, Santa Claus, Abraham Lincoln, oh and Russ my partner - to name just a few... Is there a point to this? Not really, except I guess whoever wrote the article couldn't come up with anything else to write. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:35:18 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: how small is your world? NJC Just wanted to share a very interesting connection I've made because of our lovely list of jmdlers (okay besides my Brei ;-)... anyway....seems that our very own Willy the Shake who as we know did reside in Indonesia for a time, made it across the land and the sea to Ashara Fest last Labour (Labor) Day weekend. Had some wonderful conversations with Willy and connected again last night in the chat room.. (some wild humour tossed back and forth between the boys).. and so.....Willy is in the chat room and reminds me that he is back in his homeland...so I ask where and he says well Scotland and to be specific..Wishaw...to which I get all excited because my dear Auntie lives there ... so we put our heads together and it seems that Will is on the next street as Auntie!!!!! I cannot believe this... (yes it gets better!) His mom and my aunt were friends as teenagers and my aunt recently was at a gathering serving tea to Will and his Mum. (yikes!) anyone else have a small world story to tell about someone you've met on the list???? Mags... dreaming of the day when Brei and I stand together holding hands looking over the highlands. nw: shabbat candles burning brightly against the sky ===== I've got you to see me through, looking out for what I do Spreading sunshine from the skies, placing rainbows in my eyes Got you watching out for me, making sense of what I see When my world is wearing blue, I've got you to see me through . - ---by Eleanor McEvoy on her album Yola (2001) . Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0800 (PST) From: Penny Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars Paul wrote: The last sentence of this statement is not correct according to a first hand aquaintance of mine. I know a guy who's band would share dates at a Detroit club called The Poison Apple with Chuck and Joni in the mid sixties. Comparing notes, this must have been before Pat Henry had met Joni in The Cellar. Sid, the head of this band, The Spikedrivers, told me he used doodle around on guitar with Joni before or after sets. Pointedly asking, he insists that Joni was only using standard tunings when he knew her. Penny NP Shawn Colvin - Conversation (Catherine Turley found these covers, done by Colvin during Public Radio Appearances in 1975/76. I think they were sent sometime in the last several months to Bob for the Covers Project.) Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:54:17 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Nuriel wrote: > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. I hear songs like 'Job's sad song' and i'm confused. The one >Joni is talking to in that song is God. He's the one her bitter confession is directed to. But how can you talk, blame and >criticize something you don't even believe exists? What leads you to believe this? She certainly isn't some religious fundamentalist or particularly devout about religion but she does have beliefs. She has spoken of them a number of times in interviews. From what I can gather from listening to her she is a kind of Buddhistic Christian with a great appreciation for Native spirituality. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:12:43 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars I'm sure that Joni knows how to play in standard tuning. I think before she started composing her own songs, she performed a lot of folk tunes. Supposedly only three of her compositions are in standard - the two you mention and Harlem In Havanah. Marian Vienna - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Paul Castle" Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:17:40 -0000 >I recently had an e-mail from Warren Allen, whose 'alternate tunings' >webpage link I posted on the list last week, asking if I knew whether >Joni had ever learnt to play the guitar in standard tuning (on his site he >quotes from Mark Hanson's book 'The Alternate Tunings Guide for Guitar' >(Amsco Publications, 1991) that Joni Mitchell "has always played only >in alternate tunings. She has never learned to play in standard tuning." > >Doing some research I found an article from 'Acoustic Guitar' magazine >(August 1996) - http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/9608ag.cfm - which >states that "only two of her songs 'Tin Angel' and 'Urge for Going' are in >standard tuning." > >Does anyone on the list know if this is correct? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:03:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: first kiss > 1) What song/music would say it for you? Brazilian music > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > first kiss from current partner? It was either a Monkees or Buffalo Springfield song > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? First kiss with first great love was while listening to the Blue album for the first time at a beach house party - think it was All I Want, because immediately afterward I was trying to work that one out on my guitar ;-) > and, > 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? The Blue moment was perfect ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:15:54 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Dianne Wiest - NJC Oh, Brenda. I didn't know Dianne was on t.v. Can't get the networks here so don't get to watch those shows. Check out Independence Day if you haven't seen it. Dianne is great!!!! mack > > > Does it get any > > better than Dianne Wiest? I find the Academy Awards are just a popularity > > contest, kind of like cheerleader in high school, or which studio spends the > > most money. Dianne Wiest can act. > > I am a really big Woody Allen fan. Can't help myself and I don't care who he > sleeps with. It's only fascinating from the standpoint of his own theory of > true artists creating their own moral universe (one of the themes of Bullets > over Broadway and Sweet and Lowdown). > > Annie Hall is priceless and Manhattan Murder Mystery makes me laugh every time. > > And Dianne Wiest's performances are the main reason why I love some of Woody's > movies - Radio Days, Bullets ("I never play frumps or virgins!"), Hannah and > Her Sisters and even the dreary September. (Judy Davis in Deconstructing Harry > and Husbands and Wives is another one who has served Woody's films well.) > > Dianne actually won well-deserved Academy Awards for her performances in Hannah > and Bullets and was nominated for Parenthood. Love her! > > She's wasted on Law & Order, but at least it's work, I guess. > > Brenda > > n.p. Mos Def - "Umi Says" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:19:11 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: first kiss (njc) > (snip) > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > GARRET (delirious from a looooong day trying write a STUPID essay) The song playing at my first kiss was Aerosmith's 'Dude Looks Like A Lady' (rimshot). - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:22:40 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Books and movies njc Darn, there are a lot of lesbians around here. I like that. I remember watching the Color Purple with my mother (someone else posted that they thought the movie was as good as the book, I liked the movie much more than the book. Was pretty disappointed by it. On that subject: I loved Gone with the Wind (who didn't) and had seen it many times before I read the novel. The movie is extraordinary (Leslie Howard, now that could make someone happy forever) but the book, in my opinion, was even better. Couldn't put it down. ) Back to the Color Purple. Was watching it with my mother and the scene where celie and shug are kissing came up. I figured my mother would freak and I was pretty embarrassed. She took it pretty well. I kept my mouth shut. mack > Kerry wrote, about Fried Green Tomatoes: > > > It's just a shame that they had to "clean up" the lesbian content. > > It's an interesting quandry, though. Do you make a movie that's totally > > true to the book or do you strive to make it palatable for a mass > > audience? I consider it a wonderful "lesbian movie" because I read the > > book and could see (and feel) the love that Ruth and Idgie felt for each > > other on the screen. However, my mother enjoyed it and I'm sure did > > not see any lesbian content at all. > > When that movie was first released, I was really annoyed by the "clean up." Now though, I treasure the idea that unless you've read the book, you might not pick up on Ruth and Idgie's real relationship ... so it's a nice little "inside secret," if you will. > > Lori, wondering if she's becoming one of those older, suburban lesbians, > in MD > > ~ > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:25:27 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc I love the magazine by RLj. I rate it up there with Pirates and the debut album and Girl at her Volcano (which came in the mail today and I am listening to now.) . Can't get too much of any of the four. But I like RLj as much as Joni. blasphemy. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: grammy 2002 & The Magazine vljc > ugh...Bjork's Vespertine got one little nomination while Alicia Keys got six > ::puke::. > > Hooray for India.Arie! The only reason i'll be watching this year is for the > Joni tribute. > > I'll fall over in my chair if they play anything from Hej, DJRD, mingus, or > other 80's and 90's stuff. They're such Blueheads. Maybe she'll preview the > new album. > > As far as RLJ goes, I got "The Magazine" the other day and other than Prelude > to Gravity(Reminds me a lot of Paprika Plains) and The Real End I don't think > i'll like this album very much. Compared to Joni her verse is very freeform > and self-contradictory. I feel like i'm being had (ala Bob Dylan). I'm > still going to get Pirates though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:31:24 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Dianne Wiest - NJC > It's only fascinating from the standpoint of his own theory of > true artists creating their own moral universe what a load of bullshit! Not from you, but from him! Talk aboiut how to rationalise appalling behaviour! What he did was wicked and abuse of the worst sort. How people can think it is okay is beyond me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:33:22 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: > Nuriel wrote: > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone being an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow any religion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:34:04 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2002 #5 (NJC) Lori-behave yourself! Lori in MD wrote: > Fauchja, I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but is "Fauchja" pronounced the way I think it is? ; ) > > Lori > > ~ > Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:35:23 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: talk about disrepect. Made the trip to the adjoining town today for supplies. Thought I would check out the record store again. Wanted something new badly and the mail is so slow. It was the usual. The music playing was awful but then one song came on that was quite nice, really pleasant, and I was enjoying being there for those 3 or 4 minutes. It was K.D. Lang. I really like to hear her sing though I don't really care for her material. She is so good. What a voice. She was singing with a dude I didn't recognize. Anyway, the Joni bin and the others i looked into were empty or had albums I already had so I made my way to the bargain bin. EEEEk. There was Joni. About 15 Joni cd's of court and spark. On sale. Along with Janis and Carly. Guess that might have been fortuitous if I didn't have that album but Joni, shoved to the BACK of the bargain bin. I placed her in the front where the album cover showed and put the nobody that was covering her up in the back. I wanted to shout at the, mostly kids, others in the store and tell them that if they wanted the full package, to truly be moved and enlightened, then here it is. I thought better of it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:37:04 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: how small is your world? NJC In a message dated 1/4/02 4:36:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, magsnbrei@yahoo.com writes: > so we put our heads together and it seems that Will is > on the next street as Auntie!!!!! I cannot believe this... > (yes it gets better!) His mom and my aunt were friends > as teenagers and my aunt recently was at a gathering serving > tea to Will and his Mum. (yikes!) > Wow Mags that is so awesome!!! Talk about a small world LOL love,rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:30:34 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Of course, but the rest of Nuriel's quote that I included said she did not believe in God's existence (using "God" here as synomymous with "Supreme Being.") Kakki > > Nuriel wrote: > > > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. > > there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone being > an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow any > religion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:44:48 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: DED redux > > From: "Bree Mcdonough" > > Subject: Re: DED redux > > >. DED just leaves me COLD> > > Maybe,I'll give it another go in four years and see if anything on my > > part has changed? > > > > Bree > > > >Dear Bree > >I find that the albums that are too "obvious", meaning the ones that are >instantly liked, >are the ones I get bored with after 2 or 3 listens. Conversely, the ones >that take a while >to discover will reveal hidden treasures at every listen for years to come. >Likewise the song on an album I like least the 1st time becomes my favorite >on the 5th play, >this happens all the time. > >You may never like DED though, but please don't give up after just 1 >listen. > >Laurent Hi Laurent, I hear what you are saying. I usually like something right off or I don't and never will. There have been few exceptions to this..........Diana Krall comes to mind,I was pretty lukewarm about her. But this has changed........she sounds so wonderful to me now. I love her phrasing especially,how she wraps her self around a word then releases it. I will give DED a visit before four years. In fact,I had it on the other night;two wanna be drummers (nephews) were over and I played "Smokin"..they liked it. I heard the word COOL several times,they liked the beat. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:55:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: talk about disrepect. Yes, Brenda, it was. I thought as I stood there that it sounds like Tony Bennett. Then I thought "nah." mack > > > On 4 Jan 2002, at 16:35, mack watson-bush wrote: > > It was K.D. Lang. I really like to hear her sing though I don't > > really care for her material. She is so good. What a voice. She was singing > > with a dude I didn't recognize. > > Wonder if it was the new duet with Tony Bennett... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:00:38 -0800 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: first kiss My first kiss was with a boy named Tony. And no there wasn't any music playing. We were in second grade and the kiss happened in a field. I can remember this as if it were yesterday. The interesting part of this story is that Tony was my mailman (not milkman) up until two years ago. And he has been a life-long friend of my brother and actually my whole family. Every time we we see each other,it's weird, we both blush a little. (Him being a married man with five or six children...very sweet) Bree >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:03:40 -0800 > > > 1) What song/music would say it for you? > >Brazilian music > > > 2)Was there a song playing when you got your first kiss? > > first kiss from current partner? > >It was either a Monkees or Buffalo Springfield song > > > 3)Anyone have Joni playing? > >First kiss with first great love was while listening to the Blue album for >the first time at a beach house party - think it was All I Want, because >immediately afterward I was trying to work that one out on my guitar ;-) > > > and, > > 4) if you could have had Joni playing what would it have been? > >The Blue moment was perfect ;-) > >Kakki _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:01:34 -0500 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: Re: how small is the world Mags- what a great discovery!! My small world with JMDLers is that YOU live a 3 minute car ride from my Mother's house where I grew up!!! Best Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:09:39 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC On 4 Jan 2002, at 22:31, colin wrote: > what a load of bullshit! Not from you, but from him! Talk aboiut how to > rationalise appalling behaviour! What he did was wicked and abuse of the worst > sort. How people can think it is okay is beyond me. > > The whole notion of the artist creating his own moral universe was in Bullets which was written well before the Soon-Yi scandal. So it's not like he presented it as his own justification for what happened. I don't think he ever used that theory to rationalize any of his actions. I just find it interesting in light of what happened. I will grant that I don't know what the back story is to that whole scandal, but wasn't the girl 20 when the affair started? Do you think it was abusive toward Soon-Yi or toward Mia or both? I know there were allegations that he abused one of the children that he and Mia had and if that was indeed true (he was cleared of any charges) then you're right, he's a scoundrel. Does anyone know what the story was? BTW - Soon-Yi and Woody have been married for a few years now. I thought SHE was appalling in Wild Man Blues, the documentary about his touring Europe with his ragtime band. As my friend's mom says, "she really thinks who the hell she is." Conceit with very little visible justification. Very unfortunate woman. Brenda n.p.: Elton John - "Dark Diamond" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:32:57 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: talk about disrepect/Tony Bennett Duets NJC On 4 Jan 2002, at 16:55, mack watson-bush wrote: > Yes, Brenda, it was. I thought as I stood there that it sounds like Tony > Bennett. Then I thought "nah." > > mack > He has a new record out of "blues" duets. He actually got a Grammy nomination today for his duet with Billy Joel of "New York State of Mind." BTW - I thought their (k.d. and Tony Bennett) tour together this past summer was fantastic. They only did three songs together but I wish they had done more. They have great chemistry on stage. Brenda n.p.: Elton John - "Ballad of the Boy in the Red Shoes" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:45:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alison E Subject: Re: Cheryl Wheeler NJC once in a while, one of these very cool type things goes down in the city of salt. we do have an incredible acoustic music scene here, with lots of talented people and a supportive community. so, kate, are you sending a tune? ;-) alison e. in slc np: kasey chambers ps: am i going to see you in LA? less than two short weeks away! yee haw! - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Cheryl Wheeler fans & folk songwriters, here is some > info from a music list > I am on:> > The Intermountain Acoustic Music Association (IAMA) > here in Salt Lake City > is putting on, in conjunciton with the local > university, a Singer-Songwriter > Workshop. Here's how it works: interested folks > submit their original song, > plust a $10 check, postmarked by Jan. 15. A panel > of judges will select > five > finalists. Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 00:52:14 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars >> quotes from Mark Hanson's book 'The Alternate Tunings Guide for Guitar' >> (Amsco Publications, 1991) that Joni Mitchell "has always played only >> in alternate tunings. She has never learned to play in standard tuning."> Penny wrote: > The last sentence of this statement is not correct according to a first > hand aquaintance of mine. Thanks for the story, Penny - lucky guy!!! Thanks also - Sue, Michael and Marian - for confirmation of the standard tuning songs. I found this in an interview Joni did with DJ Tony Hale on London's Capital Radio for a show called 'Rock Master Class (London, England, December 29, 1985) see http://www.jmdl.com/articles/docs/851229rmc.cfm >>>>>> TH: You don't tune a guitar the same way -- the conventional tuning, E, A, D, G, B, E, I don't think, do you? JM: Well, when I started playing guitar -- I'm trying to think now when I got my first six-string guitar. I guess it was probably 1964. It was a nylon string, it had a classical neck, a wide neck on it, and at that time I played in standard tuning. It wasn't until I began to write my own songs that I began to crave chords that I didn't have the dexterity with my left hand to make. The voicings that I heard, the music that I wanted to make, I simply couldn't get out. And it was a frustration because, you know, I could learn your F chord and your G chord, and your minor, and a couple of things like that, but after a while there was no -- it seemed like every variation or combination of chords had already been a well-traveled course. It was Eric Anderson that showed me some of the first open tunings in the coffee houses in those days. Open G, D Modal, Open E, which I guess is the same as Open -- Open G, Open D -- pure major chords, anyway, were used among some of the people who played more blues oriented folk music. And so I learned those. And then I began to hybrid them. And the only person I knew that was also doing that at the same time was Buffy St. Marie who had developed some interesting-sounding chords with more modal than major or minor, and that modality drew my ear." >>>> PaulC PS. I know what Joni means by "it seemed like every variation or combination of chords had already been a well-traveled course." Only now, almost 40 years later, most of us find it hard to come up with an 'open tuning' that doesn't sound like "one of Joni Mitchell's"!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 01:40:55 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC > I will grant that I don't know what the back story is to that whole scandal, > but wasn't the girl 20 when the affair started? Do you think it was abusive > toward Soon-Yi or toward Mia or both? both. However, my concern is with Soon Yi. No matter how old she was, he was her father for many years. To then form a sexual relationship with her is abusive. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 01:42:26 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: > Of course, but the rest of Nuriel's quote that I included said she did not > believe in God's existence (using "God" here as synomymous with "Supreme > Being.") yes but I was referring to the comments about not understanding how someone could write about God when they are not religious. I was therefore driecting my comment at that and not at Joni. > > > Kakki > > > > Nuriel wrote: > > > > > > > From what i understand, Joni is a very non-religios woman. > > > > there is abig difference bewteen someone not being religious and someone > being > > an athiest. On can have a strong faith in a Supreme Being and not follow > any > > religion. - -- bw colin DAK,BRO GC, 950i, 940,860,864,890, 260,Silver 830,860, 580 and 270, Passap 6000, Duo80. colin@tantra-apso.com http://www.tantra-apso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:39:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Robert Johnson on Mars << Pointedly asking, he insists that Joni was only using standard tunings when he knew her. >> Well hey, Penny!! What a joy to see you again! As for Joni's alternate tunings, what about her piano compositions? Wouldn't they be in 'standard' tuning by default, unless she monkeyed around with the tunings of the piano strings? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I truly don't know. Bob NP: The Police, "I Can't Stand Losin' You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:41:35 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC Coincidentally, I was perusing the JMDL site and saw that Bill Dollinger had written a parody on this situation, based on "Willy", called "Woody". Very clever, as his work always is. Bob NP: The Police, "Truth Hits Everybody" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:58:04 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC colin wrote: > > I will grant that I don't know what the back story is to that whole scandal, > > but wasn't the girl 20 when the affair started? Do you think it was abusive > > toward Soon-Yi or toward Mia or both? > > both. However, my concern is with Soon Yi. No matter how old she was, he was her > father adopted father, and I believe she was 16 or so when they adopted her, and the sexual thing started when she was 20 or so. Just to clarify. > for many years. To then form a sexual relationship with her is abusive. > bw > colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:06:06 -0800 From: "Brenda" Subject: Re: Woody Allen + Soon Yi - NJC On 5 Jan 2002, at 1:40, colin wrote: > both. However, my concern is with Soon Yi. No matter how old she was, he was her > father for many years. To then form a sexual relationship with her is abusive. > bw colin > This is where it gets complicated to me.... Soon-Yi was adopted by Mia and Andre Previn, right? And Woody and Mia never lived together nor were they married. So did she consider Woody her father or just her mom's boyfriend? (Not that that would make their relationship appropriate.) Mia had six children out of her marriage with Previn....given his personality, it's hard to imagine Woody Allen playing father to those kids. Perhaps it's putting to fine a point on it, but the whole thing seems a bit more complicated than it was portrayed in the press. I guess one day there'll be a book about the whole mess. B n.p.: Omar - "Who Chooses the Seasons" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:27:20 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion Kakki wrote: "She certainly isn't some religious fundamentalist or particularly devout about religion but she does have beliefs. She has spoken of them a number of times in interviews. From what I can gather from listening to her she is a kind of Buddhistic Christian with a great appreciation for Native spirituality. ;-)" That's what i wanted to know, Kakki. You're so lucky. You can hear interviews with Joni sharing her point of views (Kakki, you even met her face to face for such an amazing conversation) - but me, i never heard anything here in Israel from Joni (not about Joni) in the media other than what i could learn from her lyrics. That was untill i joined the list and even now, as i learn something new about Joni everyday, there are so many things i still realy want to know, and this was one of them. I thought that Joni was a non-religious person only from what seemed to be a non-religious feeling in her lyrics, but that was just my eyes/mind trying to work out the meaning of things, and like i said, i was confused and i knew you guys would tell me what you know. And that was all just an introduction to - Thank you, Kakki:)! You and Colin spoke of some ways of belief and of whom one believes in. (I used the word God in general just to make it easier to understand and for us to talk about) - it was good to read your thoughts and opinions. Love, Nuri p.s. Just to help you understand how sometimes here in Israel (and i'm sure it happenes everywhere) the media makes a mess of facts - When Joni and her daughter found eachother, the most important news-paper here named 'Yediot Acharonot' (Up to date news in hebrew) wrote that the only thing Joni was sad about when she met Kilauren was that Kilauren didn't have the chance to meet her Grandmother because Myrtle was already dead. When i joined the list and found out that Myrtle was very much alive - i was realy happy. I'm a grannyboy, hehe:) That reminds me that i do believe that with that happy ending of the Mitchell women story - Joni should get the Granny award :) _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:36:23 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and religion Nuriel, Just about everything I've learned about Joni I read in the articles section of the JMDL site, so the resources are there for everyone! There are so many amazing interviews with her over the years. I think she also may have mentioned something about Buddhism and Christianity at the PWWAM taping in '98. She has spoken of turning to God in tough times and there was something I either read or listened to recently where she said she even went through a slightly born-again Christian phase around the Ladies of the Canyon time frame, which I found surprising. It seems to me like she has developed a very full and broad/universal spirituality and I do perceive that in much of her lyrics. That's awful about the paper saying Myrtle was already dead! lol Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:53:20 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Girls in the Valley? Hi there, CD Now lists `Girls in the Valley` as a 2001 Joni import CD. Does anyone have any idea of what this is? Michaelo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:22:02 -0800 (PST) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and religion Thanks, Kakki :) The articles/interviews are realy amazing. I'm doing my best to read as much as i can and since Les has started posting the Today in Joni History it's even better. I think it was you, Kakki, who not long ago mentioned the interview with the sad-sad story of Anna - so i read it the moment you wrote about it and that interview is a treausre. So thanks for that one too!:) "She said she even went through a slightly born-again Christian phase around the Ladies of the Canyon time frame" That's so interesting, Kakki. I read she felt that For The Roses was in a way a religios work/trip for her. "That's awful about the paper saying Myrtle was already dead! lol" It also said that Joni's favorite food is liver with onions and wine sauce (which i now understand is true as i read it also in other articles) and that when Kilauren came to Joni's house for the first time she didn't touch it cause she's a vegetarian. This post has got me thinking of fixing something to eat. :) Nuri _____________________________________________________________ Free email, web pages, news, entertainment, weather and MORE! Check out -------------------------------> http://wowmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2002 #8 *************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she?